Emma Grede on Operationalizing Culture, Speed, and AI

0:00Skims is a$5 billion business, which is a mind-blowing number. Congratulations. I'm just wondering, what is it going to take to become a$50 billion business? Do you have that in mind? I think if you get too far into the numbers and what's possible and the competition, it derails you. I have a really good inner sense for what people want to buy and how much they want to pay for it and the things that they don't even know that they want to buy yet. And it's actually been like a superpower of mine.

0:37Culture moves fast. Technology moves faster. And let's be honest, if your product underneath all that noise isn't rock solid, your brand simply won't last. Today's guest understands that tension better than almost anyone. Emma Greed is the powerhouse co-founder and operator behind Skims, good American, safely, and now off-season. But what actually sets Emma apart isn't just the celebrity access or the viral launches, it's her total operational clarity. She doesn't see marketing as something you do after the product is made. She treats it as the core operating system of the entire business. In this conversation, we're unpacking what it really takes to build a durable brand in a world obsessed with moments.

1:20Emma shares why product discipline will always speed hype, how to actually systematize cultural relevance, and why speed is your ultimate competitive advantage. We also dive into the AI of it all, where it should power the engine, and where it should stay out of the way. If you're trying to navigate that messy intersection of culture, commerce, and technology, consider this your blueprint for operationalizing ambition. Here's my conversation with Emma Greed.

1:52Hi. Well, so in listening to all your podcasts and following your career for a little bit, I've identified three things that you and I have in common, right? Come on, give them to me. The first is we were both born and raised in London. Second thing we have in common is my absolute favourite thing to eat is a crispy aromatic duck from a British Chinese restaurant. Oh, look at that. You really have been listening to me. I have. So that's the second thing, because I know that you said that you like that. So that's unequivocally is my favourite thing. Here's the third thing, which is a little weird to say, but I listened to your episode with Jens, your husband, where he spoke about his anxiety and your relationship.

2:31And it's a remarkable podcast. Everyone should listen to it. You married Jens. I now have a man crush on Jens. Those are the three things we have in common, right? I will take that. I mean, I'm still crushing on him 17 years later, but I thought it was pretty, pretty good of him. He's probably been the hardest guest for me to secure. of everyone, but I thought it was really worth the wait. One of the things which is really fun about reading about your career beyond the sort of seeing some of the things you, some of the references you have, which I understand growing up in England as well, is you guys have clearly done it your own way.

3:07Like you take, trust in your gut, listen to your own rhythms and ways of working and invented to great success, a lot of amazing things that I want to get into today. There is an elephant in the room, which I need to bring up, we're on Frontier CMO. And quite famously, at Skims and some of your other companies, you don't have a chief marketing officer as such. And I guess I know my audience, I would love to hear just sort of the philosophy on why that is so. That first of all, that is such a funny place to start, given where we are. And I think that it would be fair to say that we kind of, you know, in that very English way that we kind of fancy ourselves as CMOs over here.

3:49And perhaps there is just no replacement for what you've spent years and years crafting and learning and building. And so we play an interesting role of CEO, CMO of sorts. But never say never, you know, I don't think that we don't need a CMO. And we certainly have a lot of really talented marketeers in the business, especially when it comes to more of like the digital side of the business. And so I think kind of starting with Kim and Jens. And if I think about the seed of where most great ideas in this company come from, if it's not born out of innovation and a specific product, it's really about this idea of connection to culture.

4:32And those two happen to be just very, very good at that. As you scale the business, it is interesting because you're a founder, right? You're a serial entrepreneur founder mode has been a meme in silicon valley for the past sort of couple of years and at a certain point you get large enough and you have to be flexible enough when does that happen for you like if you're launching in the uae you don't know anything about the uae beyond visiting there a few times not so you don't know stuff but it's just at a certain point you need inputs to actually help guide your gut how do you go through that process who's doing that for you It's a great example, actually, because there's a lot of kind of UAE expansion right now, more specifically.

5:16But I think that what we have is like an obsessive product discipline. When you have a product that actually solves something, it gives you a way of resonating regardless of the kind of market. And when we start businesses, we do it in a way that we're really clear about there is this kind of underserved customer. And so when you start thinking about defined segments, it's not everyone. We don't start these brands for everyone, despite the level of inclusivity that's there. There really is a very clear, defined and underserved customer that we're trying to reach. So it makes things really, it makes things kind of easier in some way.

5:59And then I think from day one, you know, there's two big places of investment outside of product development and one comes in people right hiring the best people the other thing is having a supply chain that's really built for scale that's not retrofitted after growth so the commonalities that in good american famously i think you know you spotted that there was a lot of returns of the size 14 and size 16 and historically there hasn't been a size 15 and so you actually took that insight and said let's build a size 15 those insights that you're finding are universal around the world? How have you seen those insights have changed around the world with different audiences?

6:38Well, you know, what I would say is, you know, especially coming into the fashion business at the time that I did, you know, I remember working for brands 20 years ago, where everything would be so differentiated by market down to the product, right? You'd make smaller products for the Asian markets, you would make more restrained product for the Middle East, and you'd have something totally different for the Americas. And what I've understood is that when living in a you know an ever more kind of global world and that applies to the products and the marketing as well like the things that really work work on a global scale that makes perfect sense i was actually reading about and listening to your 10-step blueprint for turning an idea into a brand which is also a remarkably good piece of content so i encourage everyone listening to this to go find that content because that list of 10 things felt to me reading through them and listening into it is exactly the list that marketers should be thinking about but you're coming at it from a founder's perspective from a ceo's perspective what do you think classic marketers may not understand or miss to their own peril from that list of things that you have there what's the thing that we don't see or that founders do you know it's interesting because when i think about like how people maybe first think about our brands they think about visibility they think about you you know, celebrity.

7:58And all of that does a great thing to accelerate a brand, but it doesn't necessarily create durability. And when I think about the brands that really win, like the ones that become like these billion dollar brands, they've always identified like a, you know, structural gap in the market and then realized that you could operationalize it. But that comes with like ruthless precision. And I think if you kind of broke it down, I think what we've had in a lot of these businesses is there was an enormous amount of operational clarity that was there from day one. Like before we had a global business, we were thinking about in that way.

8:36And, you know, back to kind of what I said earlier, like we were crystal clear, like, who is this for? What problems are we solving for? What's going to be the non-negotiables of this brand? What are we going to like refuse to ever compromise on? And, you know, if you've got products without discipline, what is it really? Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like we have been really, really good at ideating and testing relentlessly and things that don't work. We let them go really quickly. And that's why I kind of feel like there are all of these similarities within marketing that apply to the total business, right?

9:10If you have underperforming people, you've got to kill them as quickly as you might kill some skews. You know, you've got to be constantly tuned into what your customer is saying. And you've got to link that back to the product teams very, very quickly. It's a mixture of surveys, relentlessly being in those, you know, comment sections. We get a lot of information from Reddit and various forums like that. So I'd say we kind of have to be everywhere and it's immediate. And we take very, very seriously the kind of idea of like listening and how quickly we turn some of that listening into data for our teams to make decisions.

9:51So one of the challenges we face is the people who complain the loudest, the squeakiest wheels get the most attention. How do you get the signal from the noise, from all the feedback? That is a great question. And I think that that would come down to something perhaps not so popular, but like gut instinct. Because again, when you're a business that's built on innovation, customers don't necessarily know they need that thing and so it's sometimes you know it's like we've made crazy things and everybody's like why on earth would i need that product but sometimes you know if you are an innovation-led company you're going to be so far in the future and creating things and you're going to create a market for something that doesn't yet exist and so it comes back down to having this conviction conviction and trusting your gut and if you that If you can couple those two things back to this idea of like, what are the brand principles?

10:44Where are we allowed to play and what are we allowed to do? And therefore, what does our innovation pipeline need to do for our customers? That's when the beautiful stuff really happens. Totally makes sense. I don't know that everyone, maybe 50 % of the audience here are not going to be as familiar with the product SKUs that you're actually selling across your company. So can you give us an example of something which at the outset, the data crunchers would have said, this is insane. why would you ever launch something like this? No one needs this or wants this. And then you guys turned out to be completely right based on your gut.

11:15Yeah, I think that you mentioned it earlier, size 15. And size 15 is a great, it's a great example of something that really actually came out of me seeing, listening and looking at comments, coupling that with returns data. And then, you know, being a rookie as I was at that time, not really understanding construction and exactly how garments are made, going back in and talking to the product teams. And when I came up with this idea of size 15, which is the middle size, right, not to bore you, but you have this kind of what we call regular Missy sizing. So the sizing you find in every department store, you then have plus size sizing, it's done on two different grades.

11:53So it's technically a very different product, even though it wouldn't look like that to, you know, to an observer. And in the middle, there's this big kind of gap, which is where we put size 15. Now in the fashion industry, you would look at that and believe that it's a junior size. So immediately there was this pushback saying it won't be understood by the market. And I was like, but it will be understood by the body. And that's where you've got to take your gut instinct and say, you know what, I get it on paper. It's going to be really hard. But if you give me a second to explain this, and of course, we have this kind of beautiful reality of our businesses now that you can take long form content to people.

12:27We're not dealing in 15 and 30 second ad spots anymore. So if I take the time to say, here's the problem, here's how I solved it. And I'd really like you to try this product. You know, I think it's a really good example of something everybody didn't know they needed, but it was an actual real need. As you transition and sort of scale your businesses, because you've had a playbook and the core of your playbook, I'm sure still works. Some of the supernova celebrities and talent you've sort of associated and partnered with, But what's changing or changed significantly in the last year or two as you've grown the businesses?

13:03I mean, look, the easy answer is everything that's happening around AI, right? That's really changed, I think, fundamentally the way that all of us are coming into work because there's so much information. and every day there is something that could fundamentally shift, reorganise and affect your business for the better. And I think there are big decisions to be made on behalf of our teams and behalf of our businesses and if you want to get deep, but like our kids and our futures on what we decide to adopt and what we don't. And I think that as specifically as it relates to marketing, you really have to think about that from the kind of creative performance, right?

13:52Like what shouldn't be automated versus what absolutely should, where should you absolutely be letting AI rule versus where you're not, are the kind of biggest things that I think would, I don't want to use the word like plague the organisation, but there's some of the like bigger decisions that you have to make. That makes sense. And I want to talk about your AI strategy in just a second, because I know you've been pretty vocal about it and I'm really fascinated. You mentioned earlier about just building sort of long-term branding. And I think, just talk about your approach and thinking about what it means to build a brand for forever, really, an eternal brand versus sort of the celebrity launch out the gate, go fast scale.

14:34But how are you thinking about these brands for the long term? I think it comes down to having a purpose and a reason for existing. And again, I think we were very, very clear about that from that outset. Like, again, you know, I mentioned being like having crystal clear answers to why we do what we do and always anchoring everything back into those things. And so for me, you know, if you're building a durable brand and you're thinking about something for the long term, it can never be based on a hit product or a specific person or the virality of the moment. What we've learned is how to operationalize all of those things.

15:16How do you operationalize innovation? How do you operationalize around virality? How do you operationalize around moments in the culture? That's what actually will make you a truly durable brand. So I'm really interested in Off Season and it's one of your newer products and it's building, as I understand it, and I'll let you say the purpose of Off Season, but just give us a little sort of snapshot of how you came across the notion and the idea behind Off Season, what it's doing and I guess a little bit of how it's going. Well, you know, it is one of the things I have to tell you, people are so interested in that business and it tells you so much about America and the love for sport.

15:53And, you know, I always think that the brands and the businesses that will do the best are when like your idea or whatever it is that you're doing or producing kind of collides with what's naturally happening in the culture. And so with the rise of women's sports, there became this like notion and you kind of have to couple that with the rise of the way everybody's looking at the wives and girlfriends of all of these players in, you know, in the regular leagues, in the male leagues. And so what I was thinking about for the longest time was why all the clothing is just so bad. You know, it's like you go to a game and all of a sudden you've got to wear the most horrible, cheapest stuff on the planet.

16:33And I'm in the business of making premium goods. And then this incredible woman who was making, Her name's Kristin Juszczyk and she is the wife of Carl Juszczyk, your team, the 49ers. But she'd been just making herself clothes for every game. She had a big viral moment. Taylor Swift wears her jacket to the Super Bowl. And to me, it was like a lightning bolt. I was like, wow, this girl is going to create this giant brand. But of course, she was sewing in her bedroom. And so she managed to get hold of me. And the idea for off-season is really about creating premium goods, like premium fan apparel.

17:10And, you know, we started with the NFL. We've since signed licenses for the NBA, the WNBA, Formula One, MLB, Team USA. It is an incredible business. And it's really about taking everything that I've learned in creating premium goods and everything that we know about how amazing fans are and what they'll do to be able to support their teams and pulling those two things together. So I have two questions coming out of all this work around off-season. First is, how did no one see this before? Like what is happening that we don't, people don't see these business opportunities so much earlier? And second, Emma, do you have three or four things you're noodling on right now that are going to turn into businesses in two or three years' time?

17:54Obviously, you can't say what they are unless you want to, but is your mind working overtime right now about other businesses? Yes, it's the short answer to that. Always. Because, you know, and again, it almost answered the first part of your question. What I happen to be really good at is operationalising around an idea. And so I'm sure there are tons of people that have thought about doing this. But it's hard to get things started. And often it's hard to get out of your own way. And I don't want to go all kind of woo-woo on you. But, you know, a lot of people live with ideas inside of them their whole life and they write pitch decks and they put it down on paper and then they tell no one.

18:35And, you know, ambition requires you, you have to get your ideas out there and you have to test them and you have to be told no, and you have to face rejection and you have to, you know, become resilient. And I think that what's happened with me after having so many bad ideas and so many failures, I managed to grow all of those muscles, which means I can just do things and run at them and then not work and me take that as not, you know, a reason to stop, but rather information to just make things better. I'm also a mum of four. And so I pick my projects. And what I ultimately see is where I spend my time and my energy very, very carefully.

19:15So while it might look like, you know, I do lots of things, I have a lot of opportunity and I say no to almost everything, unless I think it's getting me closer to this kind of bigger picture and the vision that I have for myself. It almost sounds like you should write a book about this whole topic of having ambition and stuff. I mean, is that something you might do? You know, I've just, I completed my first book, which comes out in April. It's called Start With Yourself. And it really is, you know, I never, I hate this idea of all these experts, you know, telling you what to do and giving you like the fine things that you should do.

19:51I've just written a book that's based on all of my experience. And it's full actually of the things that I didn't do so right. And the things that I wish I had a different point of view on. I'm trying to demystify a lot of what is in the culture about who gets to run a business and who gets to have, you know, to sit in the C-suite of a business. Because my experience is that it isn't always those that you think that will end up doing the best job. And often we stop ourselves before anyone else will. Partnerships are clearly a huge part of your success, Emma, and your team's success, but not partnerships in terms of just a straight contract.

20:31It's actually a business partnership to the sort of nth degree. I was just wondering, as you think about a partnership, as you start developing one, what are your metrics or principles? What are the four or five things that you look for which tell you this is how I can build a partnership with this person or brand or company where it's actually going to work? Well I think the first thing is that they are looking for it and you can't very rarely in my career have I done anything where by the product or the entity was formed any other way than it kind of coming from an idea of something that person wanted to do.

21:13And that was slightly different at the onset of Good American. But I think everything really to be truly successful needs to kind of come through that lens first. And then, you know, I don't think it's that much different to any other business partnership. You know, having partners that intrinsically understand what each bring to the kind of party and valuing those things equally on both sides is really, really important. And then it comes down again, you know, it's like, do you have the same vision for the thing? Are you very clear about who does what and why? But at the end of the day, a customer has to get a product, they need to get it expeditiously, they need to love that product, and they need to come back and buy it again.

21:56And then you need to be able to sell them other things. I want to ask you a question really about a choice that someone else made with their partnership. So last year, 2025, one of the biggest marketing stories of the year was the Sydney Sweeney Great Jeans campaign. and there's been this huge debate within the industry about that whole partnership program. And they clearly sailed close to an edge, maybe crossed an edge or a red line in what they were trying to do. I'm just wondering what your POV was on that program. And it's in the direct competitive category to you, right? Yeah, absolutely.

22:32Top of the things, just for clarity. I hated the campaign. I thought it was incredibly tactless and thoughtless, first thing. as a marketeer measuring it and had something similar happened in my organization and how would I have rated it? It was a win. There's nothing else to say. It was a win. It was a win. It was a win. It was a, you know, I don't think it's damaged their business. In fact, they followed it up very quickly and expeditiously with Martha Stewart. And that was like, arguably Martha wouldn't have been involved with the business had they not kind of been on this crest of a wave and we knew whatever they did straight after that would have an enormous amount of noise no one no one was talking about American Eagle jeans before like yeah and I'm in the Denny yeah we certainly weren't looking at their jeans so I'm still very much torn on the whole American an eagle thing because I don't really believe in brands which use shock and outrage and scandal.

23:43You know, I guess Benetton did it for years and years and years and years, you know, back in the when I was sort of growing up. But I kind of don't like Benetton because of that for me personally, because it felt like a cheat code, but more cheat than code. Well, here's the thing. I think that, again, going back to this idea of durability, that's a pretty exhausting uh way of working and you have to think like how do you you know how do you follow that up because there's only so many Martha Stewart's there's only so many shocking things that you can do and eventually you kind of marginalize an ever kind of greater part of your overall customer mix so I don't think it's a great long-term strategy um but I think if you you know, if you use those moments of awareness wisely and you follow them up quickly and you've got product that potentially lives up to the hype, then maybe the net net is that you come out okay.

24:37This is the debates we have, you know, we're trying to understand where the boundaries are in marketing of how much you want to push it, how close you want to sell close to the edge. And I feel a little icky with that, as I've sort of already said. And I think you're right though, brand durability comes from the product and actually having something awesome that people want to buy and buy again and again and again. Yeah, no doubt. Let's talk about AI, right? You've been very vocal about getting your whole company and all your companies to embrace AI. Just give me a sense of a day in the life of your companies.

25:09Where is AI being applied? How's it being used right now today? So an easier way to answer that question is almost to look at what shouldn't AI I touch because I think about it in in that way okay it's a little bit like where are the areas that you need and you ought to protect because what you do is so special and so untouchable that it requires the human touch like the brand voice the um the kind of big concepts the way that the founders come into the business, interact with the business and how, what our messaging is. Like AI should not touch those decisions. What it can do is help kind of drastically improve and inform some of the, the kind of both speed and the inputs around those decisions.

26:04The way that I am using AI both personally and in the business is, it's kind of interesting because I think that, that there's a bunch of things that are just non-negotiable. Like when it comes to the data and automating data and creating like intelligent dashboards like there's no amount of people or um expertise that can do that as well as ai is doing it right now and and specifically in marketing to to be able to link all of the systems of whatever we're using uh you know shopify and the crm and google analytics and all of the rest of it like that and our retail reports and how quickly we can react to see how something is working and how customers are choosing something and then anchor back into that.

26:54All of that has to kind of be, you know, AI first. And so it's a superpower, I think, for pattern recognition for all CMOs and for everyone across the business. So I just came from an event with 100 CMOs. And one of the common challenges when speaking with all these CMOs is trying to get their teams to embrace AI, to actually use the systems and the tools. So it sounds like you're pushing this top down, but what has been working for you in getting the teams to actually want to lean in and test and trial and learn and gentile commerce and all the rest of it? I tell you the idea that they will be left behind if they don't.

27:34So making it kind of a non-negotiable. And what I will tell you about our businesses is they are endlessly curious about customer. And so we started in a place where people wanted more information, where they found it hard to get information. So if you think about like custering review information, like that stuff is really hard to come by. And when you're able to look at like post-purchase survey analytics and get really quick information that allows people to immediately impact their work, like that stuff was, there's a natural thirst and an energy for that information that was harder to come by.