From Fashion Model to Supermarket Shelves || The Sunny & Luna Story w/Giulia Berretti

0:00Everyone says exactly the same thing and it's all that like your naivety is your complete superpower. If you knew what you were getting into, you wouldn't do it. And that's the same for so many businesses and that's crazy. It's so true. That's why sometimes people ask me, would you build a second business? No, because now I know. So I will not grab myself into that again. Literally, it's the same thing. How did you find the early days in manufacturing? Like how did you, I guess, find your manufacturer? I simply got a car, I started making phone calls and just going from manufacturer to manufacturer and this was easy, so the easy part was actually finding manufacturer and just going every minute.

0:38The really hard part was, imagine a little girl coming from the fashion industry with my little power poppy and just knocking door after door like, okay, so I have an idea, I want to do cauliflower gnocchi. What went wrong in the early days of manufacturing? Oh my gosh. I think I spent too much time home practicing the recipe. Okay. And I think that it's great in a way because you learn a lot about your product, but then the process of actually doing your product with industrial machine is a completely different, eh? Sometimes in this journey that you're like, oh my God, one day you're like, I'm going to be the number one brand.

1:21And the day after, you're like, what I'm doing is my life. Persistence is the best skill you can have. I always tell people like, okay, it doesn't work, what's next? And in Italy, it's very different because in Italy, if you fail once, you're done. Really? Before we get into today's episode, I want to give a shout out to a special sponsor, Sam Lawrence Recruitment. We all know that finding the right people or the right job can feel really overwhelming. And that's exactly where Sam comes in. He really just gets it. It's not just about ticking boxes. It's about connecting the right people with the right opportunities.

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4:18Hello, welcome to Getting to Grow. Ciao. We have an Italian on the pod today, and actually a different location to usual. We are in Uncommon HQ, they're very kindly, where Sunny and Luna are based. But today we have Giulia, oh my gosh I've forgotten to say them already. Garetti. Berretti. See I'm rolling my arms and giving you the Italian flair that it absolutely deserves. To speak all things Sunny and Luna which is a delicious vegetable based kind of gnocchi and pastas and they very kindly sent me some maybe three or four weeks ago now. Me and my boyfriend had all three packets in a week. We were like this is so good.

4:56We tried it with like chicken. We had it with salmon. We baked it in like a bake once. So we're obsessed. We love it. and I love my pasta so much so to add like my vegetables in is like amazing but please may you tell us from the very beginning where you were personally and professionally when the idea for Sunny and Luna first came about absolutely so well I'm a proper Italian and grew up in the typical Italian family pasta lunch dinner breakfast maybe sometimes uh but uh with a background in fashion so fashion let's talk about 15 years ago it's very different from now i think now shift a little bit i think it's a bit healthier i think it's around the social media in that way actually broke more focus on you know like the mental health part the body image but at that time was very you know thin that you know at least like food is damaging food is not good for you food the blah blah blahs and I was in New York at the time I was modeling so really saw that you know damaging attitude towards food especially carbs carbs were like you would go to LA and carbs were like heavy you know which is like everything was gluten-free everything was just like no pasta is forbidden and then after we're moving to London and I was not modeling anymore but was still in fashion industry more on the production magazine side and the interesting part that was not very different so it was not just a modeling attitude but was actually an industry attitude and i think for me that i was coming from you know a very traditional italian family where they didn't see carbs as something wrong it was really hard and really painful in a way because i felt that all my education system in a way was wrong.

6:55So, so yeah, so that was a little bit the background where I grew up, but still having this very deep love towards food. And then one day I was, you know, during COVID, I think we all went through different stages. We was making, you know, like a business, pasta, cookies, banana bread. I mean, I remember there was a problem, there was no flour and supermarket anymore, like no ingredients. And then I was like one day I was like listen I love my vegetables I love my pasta why I don't try to do something different and just simply combine the two so you know we do flour and pasta together but I want the amount of vegetable of being as such that when you eat a portion of this sunny luna that time was not sunny and lunar the time was nothing uh you will actually intake one or five a day and a portion of your vegetables because pasta itself isn't bad it's just you know from a nutritional point of view it doesn't really add any benefit let's say but if you're really you know like combining with again vegetables or protein you know chicken salmon etc then it's a very complimentary balanced meal so we always try you know to have a portion of vegetables a portion of carbs so I was like why do we combine the two so instead of being I don't know I don't need my portion of vegetables you would just have in one meal together without worrying about you know okay well I hadn't got my my greens today so the idea was literally combine the tradition and the busy life that today people have together and that's what I mean it's I came from a slightly fashion background as well when we had our initial call and I worked in the industry before I came into food and it was heavily the less you ate the better and it was very much that Kate Moss attitude like you know nothing tastes as good as being skinny that horrible sentence that she said and I remember one occasion I was sat there and a girl had a cashew nut for breakfast one and it got to lunchtime and she's like I'm so proud of myself I had a cashew nut and I just remember sitting there thinking I don't know if this is for me like I've I have a ferocious appetite like I've run at 100 miles an hour like I I do eat a lot and I really struggled with that because I then found myself eating in the toilet a lot like in the bathroom because I didn't want to see what I was eating because like you were judged so I get the whole like fashion thing it's ridiculous like we all need food especially as women it's like it's so so bad for us and our hormones if we're not eating and the right things and stuff and I agree with you no food is bad and like pasta isn't bad it's like everything in moderation you could say that yes a whole bowl of pasta and cheese and some butter maybe isn't the best choice for dinner but ultimately it's still not bad it's not going to like do anything demonstrous to your being but i'm glad we now have a product where we can have our vegetables and our pasta and you're right for the busy like day-to-day kind of life that we all live and just you know being able to like fire off some of your gnocchi and adding in a lovely delicious sauce it's a really great way to kind of like balance your veggies and your pasta exactly and the fact but what i'm so happy and i always very loud about it that if you look at carbs or if you look at nutritional value or calories our pasta is a tiny bit less of calorie but very little so for me it's not about free from or less i'm very vocal about that but it's about actually adding you know like nutrition yeah and that's why for example i'm so happy that even in supermarket we are not in the free from or the vegan we are in the main fresh pasta you know we are next to the old label of supermarket pasta or giovanni rana because they literally see us as pasta just pasta with adding benefit so it's actually the opposite it's not a diet free from or like whatever it's literally adding nutrition yeah i think that's the key like you don't want to be seen as the free from option you want to be seen as a mainstream delicious like food produce and we were speaking earlier about the buy women built that ocado have and how many products actually are in that now that aren't seen as like this niche skew anymore like they are a really big part of like what the UK are eating and I think London sometimes we have to be careful because we are in a little bit of a bubble down here and maybe John and Leeds isn't necessarily you know up for it yet but we're getting there um but in the kind of early days and obviously you're you're looking you want to scale and make sure that your product is can grow with the demand how did you find the early days in manufacturing like how did you I guess find your manufacturer and then like yeah talk me through that process so this is a tricky one because I find that this is one of the especially in the beginning is the step zero to one that I find the zero to one this is actually one of the hardest one right because when you get to one that in a way your idea is you know taking shape so initially I mean the way I was doing it was just googling which is which is which is quite funny but and at some times I'm like how people did before google the internet how would you live for a manufacturer so and thankfully being myself italian it was fantastic because um you know when it comes to manufacturing pasta the italian are extremely good they know what they're doing so I just simply you know I got a car I started making phone call and just you know like going from manufacturer to manufacturer and this was easy so the easy part was actually funding manufacturer and just going admitted the really hard part was imagine a little girl coming from the fashion industry with my little power pump and then a little like plastic bag because you know i was making the recipe all right i was going with my little prototype that was making my own kitchen yeah and you know like just knocking door after door like okay so have an idea you know i want to do cauliflower gnocchi and this is the one i made at home can we do it a lot here and they were like excuse me also you know the italian industry is very male dominated yeah they are all like in their between 50 60 male white i mean the I don't sound like very against, but it was hard because they were literally looking at a little, you know, like spoiled girl that didn't have nothing to do and she was just trying having a hobby.

13:40And I was like, this is not a hobby. Like, this is real. But I think similar to you, and I mean, we had a chat earlier. I think I'm a very motivated person. I think I've got that great. My dad is also an entrepreneur, so I think he runs in the family. so I think one of the most important things at least in the beginning when you go to pitch to these people because initially it's a pitch to manufacturer right? I mean you're no one you're not like a Nestle or Unilever you know your actual economy is a scale especially I mean if you are an exited founder maybe it's different but if you're someone that didn't have any experience it's like pitching to an investor you're like listen I'm gonna start with this amount, but I promise you from zero, I'm going to bring you X and X.

14:28So it's like I had to show a business plan because no one would take me seriously. And I have to say, listen, I had quite a lot of no, but for me, I always say something that I, this has been almost the core of my life. I think that rejection is redirection. So, you know, every no, I think eventually brings you to a different... Yeah. I found a little manufacturer that we grow together actually close to Milan and we we worked together and we started it's a funny because I remember the first order was like 20 cases 20 cases and now you're doing completely different scale but I'm extremely grateful because he trusted me but the process was I treat him as an investor I treat him as a partner I build a business plan I went there I explained in the market the idea so you know like it was you need to build a partnership you need to convince them where you're coming from no experience and not a no product market eventually because there was nothing yeah I think that's absolutely right and actually a lot of the founders I have spoken to and also like how I do a lot of my day-to-day business when I'm when I would get them when I'm with coconut it's all about partnerships it's how you build up that relationship also So they have to believe in you and you, you know, you need to sell them yourself as well.

15:52And guys, this isn't, as you said, this isn't a hobby. This is something I want to do for a long time. Like, are you in? Like, can we go on this journey together? And that makes it more exciting. And then they have your back. Yeah. You need, you need to make them excited. You need to make them believe that they're going to make a lot of money with you. Yeah. I'm sorry. We're going to make da, da, bills. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So this was the thing. And then, of course, there is the part of R &D, which is, you know, again, I developed the recipe in my kitchen. I mean it's a very different way when then you start working on a larger scale right?

16:24So speaking of that what went wrong in the early days of manufacturing? Oh gosh, okay what went wrong? So number one thing was I think I was, wasted is not the right word. I think I spent too much time home practicing the recipe. Okay. And I think that it's great in a way because you learn a lot about your product, but then the process of actually doing your product with industrial machine is a completely different game. And also they don't have adequate cost. So I wanted the typical flour, you know, very expensive ingredients. Which you can do small scale. 100 % but not on the larger scale. So I would say, indeed, the idea is important, but I think rather than spend too much time at home developing your recipe, I think it's more important that you actually spend time understanding the market, the price point of view, your competitors.

17:24And one that's done, if you have the opportunity, is do all of these tests already with the machine. Don't do the test at all, because then it's two completely different worlds. So I was so focused on testing so many recipes at home and then when we went into the industrial part, we had to start all over again. Because you know, it was just like the machine sometimes, you know, our products, so much vegetables that they will not hold together. So I remember the first test we had this stuff melting, it was a catastrophe. And I was just like, yeah, but you know, my home works. Yeah, at home from like, you know, like five portions, not for five hundred, five thousand, five million portions.

18:09Yeah. So what I'm trying to say is I think founders, especially first-time founders that are very specific and very precious about the recipe, that's the beauty, is the fashion. But the real world, the real, you know, the industrial world is so different. Like, get ready for that and use your time more actually understanding the industry and the category that you want to launch it. and let the manufacturer do the work on the product is that does you know like again we see too much time on trying to realize a product that eventually will not work yeah i guess yeah making it in on small scale is so different to when you start to kind of increase your your scale and your you know your production run and actually what you said i think is is correct like they're the manufacturer it's like they know exactly how that part of the business works you're clearly amazing at like innovation and like understanding exactly like what you want to bring to market you're the face and the brand so go and like get the customer data go and speak to like the end customer go maybe start getting some sales meetings like that's where you're best placed and like kind of leave them to do that obviously input and you know you you must do and make sure that they're on to what you want to bring to market as well but it's it's it's really unrealistic to think that you'll know you're going to know how to also understand a manufacturing plant as well No, and it's a waste of your time, frankly.

19:31Like, go focus on your numbers, focus on your margin. I see so many brands, like, launching in supermarkets with very unrealistic margins. And I'm just, like, focused on actually making, you know, like, the cogs. Yeah. Make it work. Make it work. Yeah. And work with your manufacturer on making them work. But let them do, you know, even the source of the ingredients, et cetera. They know that. They know the skill, et cetera. that you also need to trust. But I think if you decide to work with a money factor, you put a contract in place and let them then do their work. Of course, you are the client.

20:10You say what you want. It's not that you do that, but you need to learn how to let it go and let those other people do their work. Because otherwise, especially in the beginning, where you have so much to do, it's not that work. So in those early days, if you could go and give someone maybe sat listening at home thinking that's where I am now like what would you say your biggest piece of advice from from learning take from learning from those stages? I think definitely have a very clear relationship with your manufacturer who own the recipe who doesn't own the recipe that's extremely important a contract in place is fundamental I see a lot of brands working with manufacturers without any piece of paper.

20:55And again, a contract is just, I mean, if someone wants to break a contract, they can do it. But I think having two parties, sitting down and signing a piece of paper, it shows that there is commitment on both sides. And that's fundamental. It's a partnership, as you said, right? So that definitely was one of my biggest learning. And the second part, initially, I wanted to really go with the price low, et cetera, and really take a very small margin. And I'm so happy I didn't do that because you really underestimate the amount of money that you need to invest into the marketing, how many things goes wrong, and then eventually you lose so much money that you need to spend.

21:35So if you're ready to launch with a product that your margins are very tight, it's going to get tighter. It's going to get tighter because people are like, oh, we're going to grow. And actually, other way around, it doesn't work like that. you have no idea how many hidden costs you have and you need to account for that and thankfully that was a big mistake that I was about to do and I didn't and I was like I actually having an initial price point higher but know that we're gonna be you know like profitable in a couple of a couple of years yeah with that would be yeah 100 % and Sonny and Luna where does the name come from my cat oh your cat why did I think it was your cat no no no no people think it's sometimes me like a couple of friends etc no actually my cat because I don't know I was home I was really thinking about the name the name and at some point my husband looked at me we looked at the cat and was like oh well Sammy and Luna I love that and I'm obsessed with my pets I have to say that you know they were they were there when I was learning their recipe right so you know like they're actually my you know my guide though they're great listeners those cats 100 100 yeah and um like so you you've done the first production you know you've learned kind of how to work with the manufacturer you've got the name you've got the branding how did the initial really early retailer conversations go and what was the first retailer that you launched into So we were quite lucky, I have to say, because we never really got to know.

23:13Everyone always was very interested because we are in a category that is very old in the UK. I mean, the fresh pasta, the pizza, all of this category, there is not really much happening when it comes to challenging brands. I mean, you have knowledge of the FMCG world of the UK, which is fantastic. So you know that when it comes to drink, snack, plant-based milk, etc., there is a proliferation of fantastic brands. If you actually look at the fresh pasta, there is not much happening. I mean, because it's fresh, on-label is very heavy. So it's a very difficult category. So in a way, it cuts a little bit the competition with challenging brands.

23:58Yeah. But at the same time, there is really nothing happening. Like, I really saw a gap in the market. And so, actually, my first conversation was at Brad & Jam with the buyer of Whole Foods Reese. And I think the company was not even registered that now. I mean, I think she's aware of that now. She knows. But I went there with a little, like, plastic bag. I didn't have the pack. Nothing. Honestly, if I think about that, I'm always embarrassed. But anyway, and I just put a pitch deck together, a few slides, this little gnocchi in this plastic bag. And I went to her and I was like, listen, your fresh pasta category is very poor.

24:43You just have really good, you know, like brand, Italian brand with very traditional pasta. But you have nothing actually a little bit more funny, healthy, tasty. And this is what I have in mind. I think it would be great. And she loved it. Loved it. I need to have a packaging and she was like I think this is going to be great and she was like okay work on the packaging come back to me in two months we're going to launch you know in three months and so the hot foods is great I have to say like they are fantastic yeah and I go there a lot not to buy my food because I wish I need to buy an oligarch if that was my victory shot but more just to like it's constant inspiration and like what brands I want to chat to on the pod because ultimately that's where brands start it's you know So Harvey Nichols, it's like Selfridges, it's Whole Foods and it's kind of organic.

25:32Those are the four kind of like early stage where you're going to see the brands that then obviously get the Ocado's and then they go into like the Waitrose and then they eventually get the same foods in Tesco. That's generally the trajectory. Sometimes it's different and you get the anomalies that go into Tesco first and are like Jesus. But ultimately that's how you see. And I think Whole Foods, they really get FMCG and they get small FMCG and they back small FMCG and cd because they they want to bring the newness and they want to have they want to have what's like in store as they want the exclusivity as well in the start and they want to showcase that actually like they are bringing these really cool brands to market so whole food is an amazing partner and i have to say like obviously i work with a couple of buyers as well from craven that signed but um yeah always have like a great experience they are fantastic and i have to say I mean, as I lived in the US previously, you know, I kind of, I'm obsessed with this whole food concept.

26:27I mean, I hope one day that I got the idea that the scale of Whole Foods in the US. I know. It's different, isn't it? Very different, but it was, yeah. So for us, it was literally like, I remember four months we did Whole Foods, Plant Organic, Self-Regist, all the, you know, niche. And then as you said, very, you know, like I would say traditional, like organic path, which was Ocado. and now we had literally Sainsbury coming to us which was fantastic so and again for me the best part you know this is this part that we are you know in the fresh pasta category they don't see us as a vegan gluten free etc but they really see it as the fresh vegetable pasta you know a proper company in the fresh category yeah and how do you balance the scaling of the product but staying really true to what Sunny and Luna are and all the products and ingredients?

27:22Okay so that I mean has been not challenging but yeah I had a lot of thought about it right because we launched with a quite premium price in Mowu launched two years ago in World Foods and now we're actually reducing which has been great so we actually it's nice because we are normally doing other way around what brands do so we're not getting higher but we're getting lower precisely because we managed to buy more ingredients so for now it's been really good but the only issue i have is that we don't have much ability to do it a lot of different shape of pasta a lot of different uh i don't know just different skew into the pasta format so we're very strong with our gnocchi for example but at the moment we cannot do gnocchi so at the moment that i was like okay we have a choice here either we expand into more pasta shapes.

28:17But that in my means, we need to compromise on quality ingredients or we just focus on gnocchi and we do gnocchi really well. We focus on keeping the same, you know, like vegetable supplier and we just go, you know, higher on one skill. And that's what, until now, you know, we decide to do that because I just cannot, you know, compromise on that. No. So I prefer, you know, I prefer to do less well. Yeah. And Yucki worked so well, it's the product, you know, like our consumer laws, we sell extremely well. And I was like, you know what? Let's focus on less skew, but proper skew. We don't cut on quality and, you know, all the, you know, you know, like important part of fundamental to keep the business vital.

29:05And maybe you're working on expanding on a more complimentary product that will keep, you know like all the quality and benefits of sunny luna instead of differentiating different pasta shade that that would not have this equality i think that's so important you see a lot of brands that maybe jump into other categories or different things quite early on and it might be fantastic for their growth but you might then lose your initial customer base of the people that bought you for the quality and what you gave them and what they found really special about your brand so I think it's important to stay in your lane in the kind of early days and really nail that niche and get that really right you want to be known for something so like make sure that you're known for it exactly sometimes some people say oh you're not scared to be a gnocchi brand I'm like well actually I'm just happy that people know who I am and we are you know like it doesn't matter I mean like I'm just really happy about oh yeah Sonia and Luna the gnocchi I'm always like oh wow they nuance and yes maybe you know of course i don't want to do only gnocchi with sunny and luna but the fact that really people remember us i think it's a fantastic thing and i wanted to be remembered for something good and be remembered for like i don't jump into so many categories do you know medium average products in a way and what surprised you most about running sunny and luna to be honest how quick things can go in the uk i mean sorry but i can't you know like i mean i've in london now for 13 years but in italy everything moves so slow especially when it comes to startup okay and here i mean i don't know because maybe we got lucky but we had a pretty amazing journey and i love all the i don't know the community i found it fantastic yeah for me that's really the best part has been the community and the fact that if you really want something if you're really i don't No, you know, I'm a quite stubborn person, I have to say.

31:05Similar to you, we were chatting before. If I want something, I'm going to go. And I think persistence is the best skill you can have. I always tell people like, okay, doesn't work, what's next? And in Italy, it's very different because in Italy, if you fail once, you're done. Really? People will always remember you for what you failed. Okay. Well, I think UK is much more on, let's say, American attitude, which is like oh it didn't go well okay so what are you doing we almost embrace it as well especially if you look on like linkedin all people are speaking about is their failures and like what's going wrong for them you know it's like actually we find a bit of like camaraderie in what you have fucked up in as such i think it's actually a good thing because it means you know like you fail that you're gonna try again and i like the idea that you went through failure because i mean doing a mistake is a way to learn so it means that you're not gonna do it again so that's for me is being the best part and I'm so grateful to this country is the mentality and there is a very entrepreneurial mentality which for someone coming from a very traditional country something that it's I don't know it never I don't know I never get tired of it I'm just really grateful.

32:18And speaking of that and having to adapt quickly and say yes and change and move so fast have you ever had to say no to a decision or say no to a customer or no to a new staff to anything because you weren't ready yeah i think initially and that was another mistake that i would like to share is i think initially we're trying to do so many things like okay let's launch in the middle east let's launch in europe let's do this let's do that and at some point especially with all the Middle East, like abroad, and I was really focused. And also food service. We do a little bit of food service. We still do in Italy.

32:57Actually, that's the only Italian side that we have. But I think it was too much. And I think at some point I noticed that instead of growing, I was spreading myself in so many different things. Because again, I'm someone very ambitious and I wanted things to advance, advance. And I thought, oh, the more leads I have, the more I, you know, like I have, you know, like things go and I get more account and the revenue grow, et cetera. And actually realize that sometimes it's much better going slower, but well. And sometimes you have this feeling which is not pleasant, which is like, oh, I'm stuck, things are not moving.

33:36But eventually if you look back, it's not true. You just, I think, focus. and this is something that the UK market extremely well, I think UK is a very focused country people that are really focused maybe if you're at camp execute in a very good way also it's a good way to test and learn and test quickly so if you focus on one thing you get a month into it and you haven't seen that account grow but you've done five consecutive days a week for four weeks it's probably you put in everything it might not grow whereas actually okay take that box move on if you scattergun approach 10 accounts but not given at the time you don't actually know which one's going to work and which one's not and that can potentially like long term be worse for the business exactly because also in them i mean there is also an amount of money invested in the back you know your energy the team etc so eventually just like well actually you also don't understand i'm a more retail business food service business can I do those so it's it's also lost of energy and focus in a way yeah so this was something that okay uh we had a couple opportunities and I was just like you know what let's just let's just focus on the UK let's really build a successful story and with this successful story then you go abroad but you don't go abroad before you actually nail the country I think this is, especially us, we are still a very small team.

35:06I like to keep the team small and being profitable. That's for me the most important thing. And then you grow. And I mean, don't get me wrong, I think every business has a very different way to do things. So far, for us, this has been the best strategy. And how is Sunny and Luna funded? So we did a friends and family round with some engine investors. So this we raise around$500 ,000,$500 ,000. And yeah, this serve you like to help with the launch. Since we're marketing activities, the salary. From September we are profitable, which is great news. Then we need to decide how much we want to invest into marketing.

35:50That's a difference because at the moment all the profit that we're getting, we actually want to reinvest into marketing. I mean, this is the year of the brand, you're building brand awareness and this is extremely important. But realistically, I think we are going to be fine until we are launching a next big account. And then we will probably need to raise again. Probably then all the funds will be used again for probably hire more people, marketing, maybe an expansion. I don't know yet we are thinking of course about Europe given that we also manufacture in Europe so it would make a lot of sense but again I learned on the way that I prefer doing less but well quality rather than quantity that's my teaching yeah I totally agree quality or quantity every time um really hard though to kind of get your brain into that mindset because when you are in the early stage of being a family you want to do 100 things and ultimately like it's impossible to do 100 things well yeah you know you do maybe 25 things well but in those early days when you had your 550k circa if there's a founder home again listening where would you suggest like they put that money if you were if you don't know obviously you don't know much about the fans at home yeah like very broad kind of like where would you put the cash i would say to support all the accounts you have like if you are in Okada let's say or Whole Foods etc invest in a lot of samplings like trying to put the product in people's mouth it's a slow way of sampling sampling like trying to build Brenda word is a big word because you don't also want to invest too much if you're not available right because that's one that he stated a lot of people do we were doing in the beginning oh let's try to reach so many people but then I mean you're like yeah Wool Foods, Planet Organic I mean where people 10 stores in London exactly I mean as you said we tend to think that London is the center of the world but it's not online so it's ponder to invest too much but I will say invest in the shop you are so create a movement the shops of food we were doing so many samplings in you know all the Wool Foods shops Selfridges Planet Organic so people will come to Planet Organic try the problem buy and buy so really trying to invest that probably hiring trying to hire someone good that can help you but do not overspend do not hire someone too senior because it's pointless I mean if you have a few accounts what would you get someone senior?

38:21You need a doer exactly exactly you need a doer you don't need someone behind the desk shutting later when you're Coca-Cola size you can have 10 chocolates exactly but right now we all need like can you go out and do that something because I need you to be there exactly you want someone that you know like He do the sampling, he sends email and moves the boxes and needs to send, you know, samples to a buyer. That's what you want. You don't want like a big strategy piece of paper or I don't know, a brand awareness piece. No. And again, for us, the most important part was literally trying to put the product to people's mouth.

38:58Where we were selling, again, do not do in the middle of the street where people cannot buy. You need to do it in a place. Yeah, targeted sampling. targeted samples that's the most important things and what does scale mean to you is it more products more households deep impact or something else i think it means really becoming one of the leader of vegetable fresh pasta in the uk i think that's for me i like being a very well-known brand that people buy because they want to eat more vegetables but they don't want to think about eating vegetables yeah I think it's just it's a nice way to to incorporate like who doesn't love pasta and your product tastes phenomenal there's no taste compromise like I really didn't think oh I'm eating this and I'm really compromising on my bowl of pasta here absolutely not it was delicious so but actually there's been a benefit to eating this because I've got some extra veggies in exactly and that's exactly I mean looking I think people are I mean all of us now they're trying to be healthier right so I think it's a very easy way to again eating something without that sense of guilt yeah which by the way I mean I think you should never feel guilty for eating quite frankly this is what I think I think honestly but I think especially during the week you know like when you want to squeeze your budget and just feel good about yourself etc I think it's a such easy way without thinking and that's that's how i would love that people will consume sanya luna again they will not buy sanya luna because of the vegetables but they will buy because they just love it you know when you're just like you you choose sanya luna because you know you just like the taste and yet and also you adding your extra vegetables and that was fantastic we did a study with Ocado last year because we wanted to know more about people who were buying us.

40:50And we found out that 70 % of people that were buying us on Ocado were people that were not buying fresh pasta before. So they were never buying the fresh pasta. Now they were shopping in the fresh pasta category because of Sanyaluna. And that made me so happy. I was like, wow, I'm actually bringing people into the category. And the buyer, of course, was super happy. He was like, I'm bringing new people to the category. so giving improvementality because of Sonia Luna yeah and that for me was you know like wow actually you know people that would not before consume pasta because I don't know it's not healthy enough they don't like it now they will do it yeah I love too short to eat that pasta anyway oh my god exactly not food and what are you building now that your future self will thank you for well your cats will be in palaces exactly No, I think there is, I'm proud of myself because I love seeing how more women are around building business.

41:54It's not just about Sunny and Luna. I think in general, again, going back to the Italian point, I mean, female founder in Italy is barely any. I think here is growing, but I think there is something that, you know, I have a little boy and I hope, you know, like I'm doing this for him as well. Yeah. And I love seeing these female fund that we do things together, buy women bills. You know, I find it so powerful seeing all of these women in business. It makes me so proud and so happy. Definitely. So this is definitely one of the things that for me is so, so important. And then, of course, I mean, I'm super proud about bringing a good product and that people can enjoy, but it's also healthy.

42:38So it's a mix between the two. but I think for me the female side is something that, I don't know, I'm extremely proud and grateful and happy to see this new movement of female leaders. Definitely, I think it's a very special place to work and we're really lucky. Because it's not scary, we're all very up helping each other as well. No, and you see we're all mega successful. You can see the female founders this day, from tech to FMCG, and see it's a revolution, the female revolution. Exactly. And thinking about the future, what about Sunny and Luna excites you? And then what scares you? What excites me is the possibility of doing things.

43:27And reconnecting before, I think there is no rejection, but there is only redirection. So I think if something doesn't work, there is always a way to get, you know, like into new path. And I think sometimes having again a noise is actually a good way to get in something better. So on that, I think definitely, you know, like keep going, keep pushing the UK market, expanding to Europe, really becoming a real leader of fresh vegetable pasta. The scary part is, it's not as scary, it makes me a little bit sad sometimes, is the bigger, the less you're in control. It's not something you're not in control of your business, but you need to learn how to delegate and then start doing the thing that I think I'm good at.