How Made in Chelsea Stars Built Primetime Beer w/ Harvey Armstrong & Sam Holmes || Prime Time

0:00When you first launched, did people take you seriously because you were reality TV stars? I think we've always gone with that, I guess, taboo. There is a connection to this reality TV world and therefore these guys are jokers, potentially. Especially when we were going for investment, what they probably initial thought was reality TV guys giving it a crack. For me, there was this pivotal moment where I'm being recognised more in the streets for primetime now than me and Chelsea. And that was always what I wanted. so talk us about some of like the dark days you guys have had as entrepreneurs we landed at 30 ,000 people so we were waiting at the festival the day before and the bar was like there's no no beers arrived and we were like what the fuck where's the beer and that was a moment we were like this could end us basically if there's no beer shows up how do you guys handle the pressure so like having that you know when your palettes didn't arrive to a festival i think that is the benefit of being there being two of us as well that we're not doing it on our own um whereas you know if is a really high stress situation you can talk to each other and that is a benefit of being best friends again i think you know touching on that lifestyle it's we want to leave a legacy we want to be the guys that one pioneered and created the bet for your beer market here in the uk what have you learned about entrepreneurship that reality tv could have never prepared you for that's a really tough question uh before we get into today's episode i want to give a shout out to a special sponsor, Sam Lawrence Recruitment.

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3:43From our creamy yogurts to our indulgent desserts, everything's made with coconuts and a whole lot of care. If you're looking for something naturally good but seriously tasty and my favourite is just our natural coconut yoghurt, I have it most mornings with granola and lots of honey. Trust me, you're going to absolutely love it. Welcome back to another episode of Getting to Grow. On this week's episode we have Harvey Armstrong and Sam Holmes, the founders of Primetime. Now, it's not my usual set today. Getting to Grow is on tour and we've come to a pub in almost like the birthplace of you guys.

4:15So, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having us very much. Please, could you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about how you guys met and how that kind of relationship initially started? You remember me first? uh so harvey armstrong um obviously one of the co-founders of sam um i guess my background was finance and accounting uh i guess a big steep change into entrepreneurism and reality tv at a point um but yeah how sam and i met uh we met on a train as a really in well i'd call it serendipity um in that we met over what prime time really stands for and um yeah so we met on a train over a beer uh when we were 19 i was making my way up to newcastle from london because i was doing this like hybrid course between pwc and newcastle university and i was traveling up and down from london newcastle uni quite a bit making my way down the train to the bar to get myself a beer and i looked to my right i see this guy with 12 pack of beer on his lap and i go i'm a 19 year old student trying to save a quid or two i'm like oh you know what i might might just ask this lovely looking man um had like long shaggy poodle hair back in the day so like down to his shoulder um and i was like i felt familiar for some reason tapped on the shoulder said mate can i have a beer he goes fuck off you wait no he goes he goes yeah he goes right and we crack a few beers um open together on the rest of the train journey um and and have a good laugh and connect the next weekend back down in london i walk into bodo slosh which is a club which is now gallery um and turns my right and i see train boy again he's there with you know on a table beers everywhere where Boller Belvedere used to be a promoter in his uni days.

5:59So I'm like, no way. It's a guy I met on the train. So we share another few drinks there. Connect. Again, third consecutive weekend. We're down in Oxford Brookes at his house party. My brother goes to uni there. Sam's good mates went to uni there. It's this chaotic house party. Some guys knock the sink off the wall. They burst the pipe. The pipe's going. The water's dripping down on the DJ below. Everyone's like, Chinese whippering, get out, get out. Everyone's running out. It's like down the stairwell. of five brigades coming everyone's panicking um and i bump into him again and it was like what the hell and then we went off to like a safe house and continue the the evening um there um and that's how we met and uh you know what drew us together was this love for being out and about with big social butterflies um big love for beer we drink beer from our first drink to our last um um we're in tune with our health and our wellness and that's really what you know underpins prime time So, yeah, I guess fast forward five, six, seven years maybe from that meeting point, you know, we conceptualized primetime and cracked on.

6:58You guys were totally meant to me. Like that was you can't write that. Like that was that's a real like brand birth story. You two like literally three times. Yeah. No, that's mental. But obviously most people know you from Maine Chelsea. So how did Maine Chelsea come about? I guess yeah in the early days um and then has that we'll obviously we'll go on to like the kind of birth of prime time and all that but it sits in like an interesting space especially with now a lot of creators becoming entrepreneurs so yeah tell me about um the early days at main chelsea yeah that was a that was an interesting one we obviously um were kind of around this area I've always been from southwest London um and I was at school with like Liv and uh Liv Bentley and Frankie Gaff and Sam Thompson and like they were all friends from school so kind of was in the network and um Harvey obviously has connections through his ex-girlfriend um who then ended up marrying Jamie so yeah triple x can't keep up with him um and yeah so we've been asked a few times to go on separately um to kind of yeah just join the join the cast and then we'd conceptualized the idea of prime time we we knew we wanted to launch a spear brand together I was actually in australia at the time um and harvey obviously got the call saying you know do you want to come on and be this big bombshell in uh in argentina so he called me and said sam i think like this might be the time that we do it because we wanted to launch the business we didn't have like bottomless pits of cash and our first scene is quite funny when we're in argentina and we're like we're looking for a brewery like as if we'd be like actually looking for brewery in in argentina to to bring over to england um and like the the storyline was sam thompson like says to me like obviously you're in argentina let's meet for a beer and i happen to be with a big ex-boyfriend of sophie to come in and cause chaos and it's kind of what happened and it's been an amazing journey they obviously harvey's been on it a lot longer than i was but it's been amazing for us they you know they filmed at our office all the time they film our events they've they launched the business on the show it was yeah it's been great and very much given us a platform to to launch the business and you know we helped put a spotlight on businesses like you know like this pub that we're in you know we can really drive foot forward eyeballs through the social media platform that we've built it's also nice because it does it feels local as well in the sense of like you know you guys are as you said like from this area and it's a real you come here and you kind of know that this is like the birthplace of primetime like most pubs i walk into and for them or chelsea like you guys are on tap which is really nice and you've been able to like curate those relationships by going in um but you mentioned about kind of being health conscious and how that was like a big um a big kind of part of your lives when did you notice that shift happening because as you said when you were younger it probably wasn't a huge concern but as you've grown up and got older and maybe slightly drinking less um when did you see that shift coming into your own lives yeah it's a good question i think i've always been super sporty so i've always been quite in tune with having to be you know certain physical sort of condition to try and I guess perform at my optimal um but I think it's always been that in the background with then when you do hit a certain age I think it's your 30s where you do need to start being super conscious like you're a bit slow down you need to start looking for marginal gains you need to start elevating like your discipline in the kitchen your discipline in the gym like to stay where you once were at your young 20s so I think you know we've definitely felt that even more so now like to try and keep at that peak in your prime you know you've got to start actually being a bit more kind of acute with your with your intake um so yeah definitely i think and each day that goes on even more and more like that's just the way the body works sadly so um yeah so i'm seeing it more and more every day yeah you know i was at loughborough university so i was like i was around athletes there that were you know the peak well not peak but on the rise to being peak of their like physical condition but also like to have good time and like to have fun and that was kind of how it all started like you know these guys that are in fantastic shape and play rugby on the weekend and play to an incredible standard do like to go to the pub afterwards and like enjoy a pint um we still see that now like the amount of times we've had a beer with the england guys after they've they've you know won they come to the boundary and you know get the prime times on them but um yeah i think this the world we live in now is such a health conscious one where people really want to be looking for those you know like harvey said marginal gains and better for you options.

11:28You can see it in your space. You see it in the soft drink space and you're definitely now seeing it in the alcohol space. And then why lager specifically? It's our drink of choice. You know, we wanted to cater to the masses. You know, our mission statement is bring the world beer for the better you. We want to spread this wide and far because it generally is a non-compromising better for your beer that, you know, the majority who drink lager can benefit from. So we started there and then, yeah, since growed into ipa into fruit beer into zero where haven't we gone stout guinness watch out they're coming for you arthur um and beer has been like a tradition you know for centuries and centuries it's been brewed for hundreds and thousands of years how um like in terms of creating a low calorie one how hard was that and what did like early iterations of like prime time tastes like and how has it changed what it is today the way that we make it lower calories is just refined brewing so there's no like special art we've just spent a bit more time and care into the development process um we worked with a low calorie well someone in the uk brewing uk that had the most locally brewing experience 10 plus years so this yeah before obviously markets you can kind of known or aware or establishing that there are people brewing low calorie beer and so we get research found them and then went right this is what we want to achieve we want to achieve a sort of plus four percent abv beer under 100 calories per can so that's our starting point but we do not want to compromise on taste and experience that is the number one box that needs to be ticked so that was the starting point and we spent about two and a bit years tweaking refining and developing that liquid until we were super happy with it so um yeah what did the first the first one didn't taste awful but it wasn't like it just wasn't that crisp like finish we wanted it wasn't yeah it wasn't like you know we wanted it to be a liquid that you could put in front of any consumer and they wouldn't know that it was low calorie and you know we've then since gone and won multiple awards great taste awards um judged as a full calorie full carb beer gluten like gluten beer for for all we know there's there is no low calorie low carb uh judging category so um yeah we went and did that but um yeah i think i said um we said actually when we tried the final iteration we tried it warm because we're in a we're in a mass rush um and we hadn't put it in the fridge and we're like oh my god that's good you can have a warm beer that tastes good you know that the cold ones can taste amazing right and you guys before so you weren't you hadn't brought a product to market before like you weren't kind of entrepreneurs prior to this not at all no no no i was an accountant quite the opposite of an entrepreneur in a box in a box long hours looking at an excel spreadsheet all day um and so what would you say is one thing then that you went in completely blind about that you wish you'd known before about the drinks industry that has like maybe cost you like lots of money because you've been like that was a big that was an expensive mistake or you know give me give me kind of a an example there oh gosh i think i think the drinks industry in particular is a is a very cash intensive of business I think um requires a lot of capital to be raised um obviously the margins are quite tight so um yeah I think that is a piece that you know I think I maybe went into a bit I wasn't quite sure how you know obviously the quicker you grow the bigger you get the bigger orders come in the bigger festivals you win you know cash flow management is so important and the amount of money you need to to grow a beer business is is a lot um what are we talking are you able to give me like a just like overall figure of like how much you think sustainably you'd need like on a year i mean you look at some other uh you know craft beer brands that have grown in the uk and and some more kind of modern day beer brands and you're looking at like you need to be at like 20 million revenues to start making profit as a business so to get to that you've got to be yeah i think i think the kind of rule of thumb is five to ten million like raised to get into the green um if you're being quite efficient you know others have raised a lot more and is still not in the green so it's it's a time that's not just beer that's alcohol like it's a big you know upfront investment to build the brand to build the kind of momentum get the cogs moving get the volume that's required to get that gp to the point which actually starts to make sense to the business so i think that's a huge well we we did know that it's just we were probably naively hoping that it wouldn't be as bad as it is um it will it will change it's cyclical when we when we get going it will be better but no it isn't um yeah uh i think my mine would have been i think with like obviously wanting to grow um with so much opportunity comes our way i think what I would have done slightly different would have been like being a bit more hand-selected with like the festivals we work with and making sure it was always on brand always on brand as opposed to seeing opportunities and grabbing them um but that comes with time and like now seeing where the business is going and you know when you're young and you're in your early years you're like yeah sick festival they want to work with us let's work with them um even though it's like completely off piste for the brand um so I think that's where I'd I'd have gone back and changed I think at the start you're so right like you just want to be everywhere you want to like you want to say yes to every single opportunity and you want to make sure like hey you're thinking like event more eyeballs you know bigger brand awareness etc but actually being able to like focus your time and really knowing what's going to return is like such an art because i still have it with the podcast i get so many amazing entrepreneurs that want to come on the podcast but they're either like a little bit too early or they're not quite the level that like it needs to be to have or like my audience aren't ready for it etc but it's really hard saying no and turning down because you just you want to give everybody opportunity and you want to like say yes to everything um but yeah learning how to do that is is really difficult and I totally agree with you like I've I've really struggled to say no um but moving on a bit about like kind of you guys personality like big brands um and big personalities ex-managers etc when you first launched did people take you seriously because you were reality tv stars um or was it yeah actually that's the question uh i think you know i think we've always gone with that um i guess taboo that we are like there is a connection to this reality tv world and therefore these guys are jokers potentially um i think especially when we were going for like investment you know i think having actually a background and accounting and actual you know substance behind us was very critical to counteract what they probably initial thought was reality tv guys giving it a crack um and i think yeah probably now for for me there was this pivotal moment where i was being i'm being recognized more in the streets for uh prime time now than main chelsea and that was always what i wanted so that and that's kind of i've seen that transition over the last 18 months two years um so that's that's exciting i think uh often people thought because we were from made in chelsea we were both loaded and you know had loads of money and we're just chucking like you know our families whatever were backing us the whole way which is not not the case we've had to bootstrap it ourselves and go out and find money from you know interesting and amazing investors which which we have done um but i think the made in chelsea stuff definitely had you know there's you you do get some people that are just like no way would i ever work with with those guys like and before they even know you or meet you and but then you get some people that are super excited to be working with you like um a lot of pubs and bars like having you know a connection to to us because we can really help them in a way that other beer brands can't like i mentioned before the with the social media stuff but there's always a little bit of a preconceived idea but you just need to have us you know have a pint with us for two minutes and realize that we're just normal people yeah look we're in a pub right now um yeah i can understand why some people might think oh you know bane chelsea do they sort of like it's not fair because i think yeah they might have that preconception of like oh do they actually know what they're doing and yeah you're right like families are backing it all because you do have some other you know brands that have comfort that are hugely family backed you know which does really help but um speaking of cash so this has been have you guys had investment or has it been bootstrapped today no we've raised yeah you raised and how was that process raising um and are you able to share kind of how much you've raised yes we've raised uh over three rounds now um first raise from guy that i actually used to work work with owns a whiskey business um so we raised money from him initially yeah so the second round was raised from friends and family the guys that kind of saw what we were doing a bit nervous to invest in the first uh round but then saw the momentum and jumped in um which is great and then the third round has been again very um strategic investors from other huge f &b brands they're sort of globally distributed um core you know core rebellion valuation and um just other great people that could help us on on the journey um a small VC but apart from that we haven't raised from any sort of VC or um private equity been very blessed with like good network of ultra high net worth uh um you know helpful which is which has been a big um bonus and something that I'd highly recommend is always go for like the strategic helpful um investor rather than just cash that's gonna sit there and do nothing um and then yes i mean we've raised sort of mid table seven figures um so far sick insane and what are your roles in the business so how do you divide and conquer between you both i guess with my accounting background i'm sort of more on the financial commercial kind of uh side sam's much more the relationships man the uh investor relations brings in that mid-table, seven figures.

21:42A lot of the business development, you know, yeah, opening some of our bigger deals, bigger accounts, driving the business forward in that way. So that's, yeah, so that's all right. I think we're like, we're so different that it works so well, like, yeah, like Harvey's amazing at all things, like numbers, like he said, like one smartest guy I've met, I reckon. and and i'm like i don't like doing any of that um and he's good at it so i don't need to do that and i love being out on about like i would prefer not to be sat in the office all day i prefer to be out meeting people like definitely like you yeah and so would you actually but you're just like you you hone in on your skill set and then when you know the time comes like maybe i've opened the door and then the next meeting harvey will come because we're a good team together um and we've got a fantastic team now there's team 12 um which report into us um but we're over everything together there's not a decision that's made without like i going harvey what do you think of this and him going sam what do you think of that so yeah it's nice and was there a moment for you guys that it like really began to click so you do almost like you know you've got the recipe down to exactly how you want it you've maybe you've ordered your first like kind of production um and you have your first like listing your big listing what was that like feeling like when all the cogs were like oh my god this is happening guys like we started a business i don't know what you think on this but i don't feel like it's fully felt like it's clicked until quite recent like as of recent we've now because there's so many things like getting that first retail listing and waitress back end of 2024 that was an amazing moment um you know you're getting buy-in from one of the biggest retailers and you're going to be sat on shelves in front of consumers it's a dream but like the selling off the shelf is the bigger thing you need to know that you're going to be purchased you're going to stay there it's not a quick flash in the pan like on for six months out so i think getting past each ranging window that we have done with waitrose and then getting our next retailer tesco and then mns and now as a very not very recent but you know the last three four months like we're looking at the data the return the rate of sale and seeing something very exciting stuff and that will you know we're exceeding the the concern points like comfortably where we got news that were number one uh selling skew uh craft beer skew in tesco's london express do you guys feel as well like that you have to work harder because you're expating chelsea than like maybe like me starting a beer brand tomorrow because i guess i have that platform people don't necessarily have an expectation of me but you guys living your life um from obviously being on telly and then you know on social media you maybe have to work even harder to like make that this doesn't fail i think it's it's that thought of like if it fails you know that people there's more eyeballs on you so you've got like that more sort of more fear um factor that you're gonna you know people are gonna point and laugh kind of thing i think which i think further drives me um and i thrive under pressure but it's probably that yeah yeah i think i didn't mean that i've less so for me obviously because harvey's got a much bigger profile than me so they'll be pointing and laughing at you instead of me um all eyes on you yeah but i yeah i mean that doesn't really come into my world it's it's definitely our investors and our you know our friends and family that have got behind us and you know all our friends like it's what we built is like a real amazing community of people like you know we threw a run club the other week and 100 people showed up and it's and it's like those people that like love prime time and um yeah it's always thinking about them and um you know they i i was at the gym yesterday and some random guy came up to me i'm just like sam just want to say like i love prime time um my missus is celiac and she like she loves your beer um so like keep up the good work and i sent him like this often happens to us sometimes i got one on the tube and um that's the most exciting thing like you don't want to let these people down that like love your product and we are bringing people something that's way better than you know your standard beers these days so yeah that's what's kind of driving me to keep going is that the you know we have built something amazing and it is the traction is there now so it's just about like you just got to keep going good answer yeah scale it up um and Jordan building a drinks business looks super glamorous right from the outside like you guys are just in Marbella that was as glamorous as I get um and obviously you know Instagram LinkedIn it's all known for sharing a hell of a lot of the highlight reels so talk us about some of like the dark days you guys have had as entrepreneurs together where you know you maybe have thought I don't think we can keep going or I don't know if this is going to work yeah the first one I think it was the festival that that we did when we first launched we we landed a you know chris jammer um founder of strawberries and green festival um he's a good friend and just as we launched we landed that festival which is a very kind of cool like central sea was kind of that's when he was coming up he was playing there um and chris was like right i think i've managed to sway the bar operator to get you guys in like it was green king before so it was a big punt on us doing it and we were quite fresh out the gate and um we landed at 30 000 people so we were waiting at the festival the day before and the bar reporter was like there's no no beers arrived um and we were like what the where's the beer um called our brewery and our brewery was like i'm really sorry but we've gone into administration and um we owe so many people like so much money that our logistics company that has picked up your beer so the pallets of your beer it's on the back of a truck saying you know you have to pay us before we release this beer so um we were standing in the field in cambridge basically trying to figure out a way to get our beer to this festival um one of the biggest festival operators in the uk like does all the big ones that we wanted to be in and he's going there's no beer at this festival like this one thing we need what the fuck is going on so had to try and negotiate with the logistics company like plead our case i have to pay him getting a transit van and like very beer um from the north of England down to Cambridge um back and forth back and forth um and that was a moment we were like you know this could this could end us basically if there's no beer shows up um we paid for the brew paid for the you know the listing fee for the festival um reputation shot um that was quite a stressful one and what's been the biggest reality check um since starting pine time I think I mean in a good way I think when we got listed at Chelsea Football Club I I was like, I'm a Chelsea fan.

28:16And we were still a small brand. And yeah, I got the confirmation that primetime was going across the whole of Chelsea football stadium. Took the whole team to a Chelsea game. And our pint glasses were there drinking primetime at Stamford Bridge was pretty mental. I think there's been a lot of patience. We've had to practice to get to this point in that you sometimes find with the trade buys, you're having to convince tesco still that you know this serves a purpose it helps diversify your range it speaks to a new better for you know health conscious consumer it it's you see in the us and australia it's hugely established like part of the beer market is there's low carb low calorie beer um so i think ralph check is like even though it logically fundamentally makes sense as a product you've still got this kind of like convincing self that you still have to do continuously um yeah yeah i mean sell-ins are so hard especially with like the competition and stuff that comes into market like weekly there's new brands popping up left right and center um and making sure that your product it doesn't always have to be like you know miles ahead of the competition but just constantly has to be that much that bit better so how what makes you guys different to the competition that's out there and why should i buy prime time over other low calorie beers uh well we pride ourselves on being non-compromising so we've always wanted it to be full strength as bit brothers um and you know full taste so we've got award-winning taste one gold uh gold in the global beer masters great taste awards we're on multiple awards across all of our beers um so there's nothing compromises to 4.2 percent you know it's a full strength beer um but yeah a third of carbs 30 calories gluten-free so it really is non-compromising with everything kind of to gain um versus some of our competitors uh lower abvs um you know which by default lowers the calories um you know there are others on the market which are which are also great but um again i think our our name is it's quite unique and it really kind of emulates what we're about as a brand and what we you know what our consumers what we want our consumers to be it's it's kind of that journey to your to your prime it's having a good time it's it's about being able to drink and enjoy the good times but doing it in a more mindful balanced way and therefore be closer to your prime or in your prime um and it's kind of we i feel like we have a bit more of a fun like a fundamental purpose versus just trying to flog a beer it's really a lifestyle um and i think that our trip um to spain kind of really encapsulated that like it's it's it's those that get up in the morning after having a fun night and they and they go again and they sweat it out and you know and they're looking for those marginal gains um across the across the week and each little marginal gain stacks up to a big sort of win by the end of the week i actually like i'm really interesting this podcast because i've learned like a lot more about you guys than i think other entrepreneurs i've sat down with i think i think i probably did have a bit of like of preconception coming into it like with the fact that you guys like have you know x-made and chelsea and all that does it does massively play into who you guys are but in the same breath it's rare someone gets to sit down with you for an hour and actually understand your business and i think people listening to this podcast will be like actually that are actually you know they they have got a lot of like clout behind them i think there definitely is it's i mean i'm speaking about one person in particular that has obviously a massive brand and um yeah it's just been like a bit eye-opening which in a really really good way um okay so besties can make or break a business hey like working with your best friend can be like amazing or it can be like pretty shit um and like really you know break up a friendship what has been something that you've learned about each other that you didn't know before you started working together oh that's a good question this can be where we start breaking yeah i caused the ending i mean i always knew this and probably you know instinctually one of the reasons we became partners in this venture but like how emotionally intelligent sam is never met a guy more emotionally intelligent be able to read a room understand when's the right time say the right thing and when's not um and and it comes from a very authentic sincere place it's not like a manipulation thing it's like I just love people how they feel feeling good and accommodating to that so I've just seen that side of you thrive I guess but I thought of kind of saw it from an early stage yeah I guess I kind of similar in a way but I I knew obviously how intelligent Harvey was from you know our first conversation on that train and exploring what he was doing and obviously doing this PWC fast track course but having worked with him now for four years like really seeing that he is definitely the full package as an entrepreneur i'd say like you know i watch a lot of podcasts you know all yours and others that you know you see these founders that you know are really good at some things and not so good others but i think that harvey can do it all um you know he is a very charming salesperson as well as like a nerdy accountant um you know and works extremely hard like that's one thing that you know no one could ever take that away from him basically is how hard he works so I mean that's it's rare right to get um a very outgoing accountant you know like my brother is an accountant now he's an investor banker and like Jesus trying to get like two words out of him I'm like oh god I've had a conversation with him like it's hard gig so the fact that you can do both is quite rare um but also understanding like what strengths you play into is really important in a business I think when I was early in my career um I spent a lot of time being pulled into like a bit of marketing because I'm quite a creative salesperson.

34:05Whereas ultimately, like, I am best placed in front of customers, like, kind of, like, closing sales. And actually learning, as I've got older, like, learning that has been really important to me because I can very clearly say to a business, like, place me here, don't place me here, like, pay me for this. Kind of, like, and knowing what you're good at is also, like, a superpower in itself. So, yeah, that's something that you, like, you learn, obviously, as you kind of grow your business. but how do you guys handle like the pressure so like having that you know when your palettes didn't arrive to a festival some founders really crack under pressure some founders really kind of thrive under it and go right i've gone into like problem solving mode i'm gonna get this sorted i think that is the benefit of being there being two of us as well that we're not doing it on our own um whereas you know if it is a really high stress situation you can talk to each other and that is a benefit of being best friends you know that you know just getting back around to that you know if something's annoying me or annoying him i would just say it like we're brothers like there's no like treading on eggshells it's you're pissing me off and we might have a little bicker but it's brotherly like in 10 seconds it'll be over whereas i think if you're going into business with someone you don't really know you know you don't know their boundaries you don't know anything about them you don't know their background that's more difficult i think you know we're we really are super close that we can say whatever we want to each other and we know what makes each other tick and you know maybe don't push that button if you know that's going to wind i think that's that's a major a major point with you know going into business with friends obviously you know if it doesn't go well then there's going to be that awkward conversation and whatnot but you know you just got to remain friends remain honest and remain transparent and that's that's what we are and i think we're lucky i mean i'm lucky that i've got rosie at home that also takes a big brunt of the the stress um um and yeah that's kind of that's my stress relief i guess yeah yeah it's so i i don't think i could have done it without you uh in terms of those stressful times and the dark times like not to have someone to share that with and sort of yeah divide the stress load um but i think you know both of us i know i've learned a lot about myself on this journey and like it's fight or flight i'm always fighting there's not a moment where i think flight it's just it's find a new gear it's dig a bit deeper it's find new solutions yeah but yeah with with you to lean on thank fuck yeah or doing doing it on your own is is really hard i think i've spoken to so many founders and the ones that are solo founders definitely have a harder time when like shit hits the fan because they don't have that person to lean on or you're right i end up becoming your wife which necessarily isn't the best place to always bring your stress right like it needs to stay within like kind of the business but obviously it leaks out it's really hard for it not to so yeah having each other i think is probably like so key but also makes it there to lean on in in the crap but also like when you get to do the festivals and stuff have fun to be able to share it with someone like drinking on your own spit dal if you're like on the stand you're like oh kind of need a friend here i mean you probably would bring in mates and all that but it's nice to know that like it's you two like you're a proper unit and like whatever the world kind of throws at you you've got each other yeah i think there's probably other businesses you could get sort of banded but for us it's so like in real life it's on the ground it's you know rocking up at pubs at festivals and like even just carrying like an icebox sometimes is a two-man job like you know if it's doing it one person it's yeah close to impossible and when you zoom out from the day to day what are you guys really trying to build with prime time again i think you know touching on that lifestyle it's we want to leave a legacy we want to be the guys that one pioneered and created the better for you beer market here in the uk and that you know left left the global brand behind us um but really it's it's that it's aligned to that mission statement which is bring the world beer for the better you it's to allow people to continue to enjoy their life keep this connective tissue between the world which i feel we're losing as we go through this technological like changes um which is you know so important and but we're also going through this journey of towards you know longevity health consciousness you know mindfulness um and giving the world this product that allows the two to kind of work in in in unison um and you know keep you know keep the society and connect connection together in a more aligned way um so yeah i think it's a legacy move really what would be like your north star of your business like is there a stage when you go if we get this i'll be happy i know know as entrepreneurs that's like a complete lie like you always want the next thing when you get there but like as we're sitting here today what would be that for you it's hard because you you think you know the dream would be to get into waitrose and you could then get there and then you'd be to get into tesco so be a retailer here in the uk you get that and then mns so um i think yeah we really want to dominate the uk um but we have some really exciting conversations happening with the us at the moment which um could see prime time distributed across america pretty quickly with a major, major light player over there.

39:07And like Harvey says, our mission has always been to get the beer into everyone's hands and to become that market leader, especially here in the UK. Obviously, America, the light lager market, huge and well-established. But yeah, I think the North Star for us would be fully dominate the UK and branch overseas. We've got such a, you know, I think we've created quite an American brand by accident. Primetime is a really well-known phrase in America. for sport like people say i'm going to prime time we actually own the trademark for prime time in america we've just landed the biggest supermarket by you know alcohol volume in america so we're about to launch over there in the next couple of months so um yeah i think the north star is just keep keep growing here and um yeah we're literally living the dream like i was i've we've got so many pictures of uh our trip to spain and i was thinking about a caption because everyone's been putting theirs up i thought i'd leave mine for a few days but you know we're literally living our dream at the moment which is pretty crazy um so i think yeah just carry on as we're going um and continue to dominate yeah i think just adds that i think that's you know the overarching northern star but then i was looking back at some some kind of like uh i guess visual like manifestation bits i i noted down one thing i put down was being within a five minute walk from a prime time wherever i am which is a bit ambitious baby in the city maybe that should be the thing within the city because five minute walk you might not in the country is probably like too too long between venues but um and then also twickenham i'd love to be in twickenham just that's just me as a rugby fan but those are like little moments within the bigger northern star journey and if you could go back to the very very beginning um the day you were like you know you registered your company in a company's house early what would you have done differently i think there are a few things that we rushed into maybe which uh looking back we you know hiring and and like getting the right team members in place is is so important i think maybe um we should have concentrated more on sales from from the beginning obviously we're both pretty good at sales and we were landing a lot of listings ourselves but like just doubling down on the sales team i'd say you know in a business like ours um that's the make or break of a business so um yeah i think some of the hiring pieces maybe um but you know we again we're a business that has a big social following so you know the instinct is to go marketing heavy but yeah i think um that would be a learning for me yeah 100 team structure um was a critical one uh yeah i'd like not to say we've done it all right apart from that but yeah that's definitely the one that springs to mind kind of when we look at the building in public thing you know how a lot of entrepreneurs now it's like being founder-led is really key and like sharing the business what what is kind of gaining the consumer's attention the most by building your brand in public is it that they are like having a brand presence and having a personal presence how important has that been for you guys and do you think that's been able to put you on the map quicker than other brands yeah i think it's super important it's you know for us it's like we have to think what can't the big guys do um and and therefore find our competitive advantage and that is one of them um it's you know it's being authentic it's showing real founder connection it's it's you know it's emotively talking to our consumer in a way that you know heineken and the big you know big breweries can't and therefore you know eat up market share that way so yeah it's super important and it's real um you know and it shows you know the consumer like the highs and lows and insides of the business so they feel like a bit more connected as opposed to kind of questioning why they're even buying a heineken and you know supporting a business that's not even you kept for example like there's a lot of kind of brainwash um from marketing perspective across the years so it's kind of like i guess not brainwash it's it's it's a pure quite authentic way to market um so yeah uh i think especially for a business like ours which is so kind of like in real life as i was saying um but yeah it's it's a super critical piece i think as well like it's it's really especially you're right like having the in real life stuff is so key and you know the likes of Heineken the big brands they can't they can do in real life events of course they kind of they could put a lot of money behind it but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to return all that it's authentic like people are buying into prime time but they're buying into the fact that like they know they're going to have a good time when they show up to where you guys are they know you guys can get over also is your audience predominantly like London still yeah it is um we also do a lot of festivals outside of London and so we're nationally distributed waitrose but yeah for sure we epicenter from here and you know this is where we show up and do all our activations yeah which i think makes also again really nice to come along to events because it's like oh like there's harvey like there's sam there the guy's building it i can come i'm local like i want to get involved which i think yeah you have like a huge advantage over the big boys they can never have that kind of like community led stuff where they feel part of the brand and i think that's definitely the way brands are going to be built going forward especially when it comes to like consumer goods brands like they need to feel like close to the founder and also like they're involved in some decision makings when it's like you know what like putting a poll on instagram like what flavor would you guys like to see next like they can vote and then like get involved and feel like oh okay they're listening to us they like seeing what we like um but speaking of a new flavor i see it's looking it's been looking at me all well i think i'm gonna try it don't break your nail i know these bit long actually oh yeah there we go that crisp i love a crisp crack okay live taste test

45:08shrambro yeah that's absolutely delicious it's dangerous god that's great slice isn't it whoa that is naughty i want 15 minutes wow that is naughty that's naughty oh my god um yeah i think we're quite excited about that product we launched it um back end of last year uh because it aligned with the harvesting uh period of of pears so these that's made with british hand-picked nashi pear so nashi pear is like a an asian grown pear traditionally um but it has an enzyme that helps break down sort of the toxins produced by alcohol so it's said to reduce your hangover so we upon you know the the journey of primes i'm trying to diversify our range and cater to that all consumers, we've got zero infused magnesium and vitamin B12 for zero but better.

45:58Fruit lager, a fruit beer is growing. So we're like, right, how do we play into this? But with the core of prime time, which is better functional additions. Sam's fiance Rosie's godfather gifted Sam a nashy pear tree two Christmases ago now. And he goes, let me have a, oh, and you know, like recall that moment. and went actually clive um is the only uk uh grower of nashe pears in kent so we've got like this connection to the perfect pear edition into our lager base so still low calorie low carb gluten free and it's and it complements the lager in a beautiful way that is really delicious i also like i don't know why there's like a thing about being a girl and just like not loving beer i don't mind beer i'll have it but i don't really like it whereas i could honestly drink so many of them like that is perfect for the gals yeah it doesn't taste beery like it tastes like delicious like actually really yummy which i think like sometimes with a beer i taste it i'm like oh it's so like yeasty yeah it kind of cuts through that like starchy yeast well starchy flavor um it's like a sweet little hit it is really nice but we've balanced in a way versus other fruit beers where it still you know honors the beer and what which we started the brand on it's it's less dense in sweetness and i think that's better for you know you don't feel tacky mouth you don't get like furry teeth like it's really clean you don't get you can really session on it um because it's got it's not too sweet it's not too much okay a couple more questions and then we've got a very short quick fire round to finish so last kind of like big question what have you learned about entrepreneurship that reality tv could have never prepared you for it's a good question uh what does reality tv prepare you for is the question not much so well i guess being in the public and learning to take like a lot of maybe no i'm discrediting yeah no it's true and actually like yeah how you conduct yourself like social presence like it actually teaches you a lot in in that in that regard um but what has entrepreneurism taught me that reality tv couldn't have that's a really tough question uh yeah yeah i think

48:22it entrepreneurism just tests you on every single discipline like like you said you know that you found of me that i i can can i guess deal with it but yeah it's everything is tested like your your resilience like your your dedication your your quick like reaction to things like decision making um just like every variable as an individual is is put to the test and it's like it just you learn so much about yourself um which like obviously reality tv knows it's much more of a linear uh sort of discipline like yes it does test you like to the extreme in certain things that actually would never be tested in in other um you know remits but yeah but no it's it's that bris 60 element that entrepreneurism teaches you like you've you've got to be so like on your feet like you can get hit from any side you got reactive it's it just feels like you're constantly on um and batting back the world in a way it's weird i think also just strength like it teaches you guys how to be so strong in the sense of like anything that could be thrown at you you know within reason you'll figure it out and that is something that you don't get from sitting behind the desk being an accountant like that could ever teach you like you can spend someone else's budget of shit it's the fan it's like right this is my cash I've got a problem I need to figure out how like this doesn't break us but we can get out of it um I think they're the stories that are like so interesting and like the biggest reason why I started getting to grow was to hear that and like bring life to founder stories because people walk down supermarket aisles and they're just like i don't know what i don't know the stories of any of these brands but i consume it maybe every day and i'm like i'm here to shed light on like all of that and like the kind of grit that you guys go through and how hard it really is um so to wrap up the episode a very quick fire so i'm gonna go harvey sam harvey sam but like thing on your feet quick quick quick worst sorry bet harvey best early business decision launching the ipa uh yeah diversifying the range cementing our proposition as a wider brand to say we are the leaders of better for your beer not just lager you know and then and then further obviously with the zero and the pair sam worst early business decision yeah i think i think maybe jumping into a festival a big festival too soon without you know really honing in on where our market was and where we wanted to to show up.

50:50Harvey, one myth about the drinks industry? That all brands are independent. I think a lot of consumers think that they're drinking some independent beer but actually there is this there is this Illuminati at the top that owns all. Yeah there's some big boys up there. Who stresses more? Oh Harvey. Who takes more risks? me that's your question oh me i think and what does success look for you right now in this moment i think uh yeah i think successfully launching uh in america is is a is a massive thing it's such an established market like i said if we can launch in america and get the can selling off shelf it's yeah it's pretty amazing um but i think just keep doing what we're doing like i'm super proud of what we're building and um you know like i've said the cans are coming off the shelves now all these supermarkets so um yeah so it's a good place to be yeah continue the primetime cult following i love it i'm so here for it um thank you guys so much for coming on getting to grow it's it's genuinely been super interesting like hearing all about it and like learning may walk way more than i could ever have gained from like looking at your instagram or kind of reading about you online and this is my summer drink like whoa i'm obsessed so yeah cheers Cheers.