A&E Doctor Maddy Lucy Dann: Childbirth and C-sections are the Two Gnarliest Things I’ve Ever Seen

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2:11Hello, and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum. Now, I am pleased to say that we've listened to you. We have a most requested guest. And today we are delivering with Maddy Lucy Dan. Woohoo! I am so excited for you to listen to this episode. I've been very giddy about coming in today and actually meeting Maddy. We've never met before. But she makes me howl online. I have shared many a video made by Maddy. She is absolutely hilarious. She is an A &E doctor. She knows her stuff. But this year she also became a mama. So it's been amazing seeing that shift, the way that she's talked about everything.

2:56It turns out during the chat that her partner said to her, so are you going to be funny or serious during this one? I'm just pleased to say that she was authentically her and that's all we can wish for. So here it is. Here's my chat with Maddy. I wonder how many people are going, how our thumbs are going to develop from the scroll. Yeah, we see people that talk about the neckline that you get from looking at your phone. So you'll get a wrinkle there. I don't think it matters. Thank you so much for coming all the way down. This is such a treat. We've been going this whole time. We do a soft launch.

3:33Alex will decide her in. Because I've said all my funny things. I've got no more jokes. No, it's great fun. I like a day out. You don't feel pressure, though, to be funny? No, it just comes quite naturally. No, but I mean, there must be that thing, though, right? But if that's, people know you online for being a certain way. And then, you know. I think when I meet people in real life that recognise me, I say the same like three things. I'd be like, oh my God, I follow you. And I go, thanks, someone has to. And that's just why I have my go-to lines. And then I'm like, tell everyone I'm better looking in person.

4:04And what other things do I say? I hope I'm better looking in person. I'm absolutely chopped on my social media, which is deliberate. I remember when stories came in and everyone being like, Like, oh, my God, this is awful because now we have to. I was like, no. And also being able to be online with no makeup on, nothing at all. Like, I'd much rather people meet me in real life and go, oh, my God, you look so much better in real life. You don't look like you do online. Oh, it was a filter. Yeah. I mean, back when the filters were the dog filter, you know, it was obvious when you had a filter on.

4:38No, I'm the same. I'm the same as you. It's easier. Yeah, I bought makeup with me to touch up. Didn't bother. No. I always bring it with me. It's just a comfort blanket. So when you go on holiday and you've got double the amount of underwear. Why? Oh, in case you shit yourself. Yeah. Every day. Every day, not just a singular time. But then the one time you don't bring it, you will need it. This is the thing. Then you get the runs. Absolutely. What was your childhood like? Oh, hello. Get straight into it. All right. I'll lie on the couch. No, it was great. Very nice childhood. Grew up with my older sister, but only just.

5:12And I've realised that the age gap we have, I would be needing to be trying to get pregnant very soon to have the same age gap. That's a really weird place to be. I can remember my eldest being nine months and being like, whoa, if we went now, that would be an age gap. And that's crazy. Which is bizarre. And respectfully, I just don't fancy it right now. Sorry, darling. Not really in the mood. But yeah, I went to a normal school, had a lovely childhood, nice house. Then my parents got divorced. Oh, the fuckers. I know. So inconsiderate. But I think I was about 14 years old going, finally. Really?

5:47Yeah. I mean, it was one of the... I think you can look back on it as an adult and you understand it so differently to how you would even possibly perceive it when you were a child. And it was the right thing for them to do. And then my dad stayed where, like in the town we used to live. My mum sort of moved just a town a little bit further away. And it was all fine and lovely. My sister went off to university then, and it was me and mum in our little house by the river. But no, it was lovely. Lovely, really. And that was all down south. I was born in Bath and grew up around that Wiltshire area.

6:17Gorgeous place to go. Oh, really nice. You must have seen other cities and been like, oh, God, this is so stung. I mean, it's taken about, I think, three or four years of travelling into London here and there to not be short of breath and mid-panic attack at all times in London. I used to find it so stressful coming into London. I was always in this heightened, must look like a Londoner, keep my finger over the top of my phone as I'm walking around with it. But now I'm, I mean, it's slightly more such a bring the baby, but then my partner's so good to travel with because you just sort of dance.

6:48That's just a whole other ballgame, isn't it, when you've got a baby? Everything like resets. I think you build up like skill points of things you're good at in social situations and work stuff. And you sort of get this, all this XP loaded up. And then you have a baby and it's like, and it winds it all down. and then you're like, oh, I have to relearn now how to do this, but now with a baby. And depending on where you are and how comfortable you are with your baby, the confidence that that knocks out of you takes a long time for you can be back in social situations and know what you're doing and know how to socialise and be and not just have your...

7:22I can remember the mum sweats so much early on. Anything that my eldest would do, I'd be like, oh. I'd just feel it all bubbling away inside. Yeah, I think my partner's a bit more stressed about things than I am because he's not got any babies in his family that he's been exposed to and seen babies growing up and stuff and I I don't particularly but then at work I mean I've worked in paediatric emergency department so I've seen babies of all various ages and very poorly babies so actually seeing a well baby all the time it's lovely so I think because he maybe is more prone to being a bit worried about something I said then I take the calmer approach but then that absolutely flips on its head when I lose my mind and go insane which I have been really oh yeah oh I've been mental yeah oh completely yeah yeah what's pushed you there um the baby yeah he's a really really nice guy um no he actually he is a very good baby he's a very very good baby and I've heard people say they don't like being asked if their baby's a good baby but my he's such a good boy and he's just fabulous but it's been I think all the hormones and just becoming a parent yeah and I think it's one of those things that you can't explain to people unless they are a parent.

8:30And I thought that was the cringiest thing in the world. And now I'm like, oh, my God, it's actually true. And I think when I had him, I suddenly... There's a really funny sketch on Family Guy where Quagmire discovers he's got an illegitimate child. And I think they're grown up at this point. And he really leans into the thing where, you know, if you see something on the news, something bad's happened to a kid, you're like, oh, God, oh, I can't look. Oh, I can't look at it. And he sort of does this, and it's ridiculous because this child's grown up and has nothing to do with it. That's me. I see something horrible on the news, and I'm like, can't look can't watch and i'm not like a morbid tourist but i would watch like like um murder things and drama stuff and scary things but there's an episode of black mirror i had to turn off because i was like oh god i can't watch it because there's something horrible happens to a kid or a baby and i was like i can't and that's so then all the epstein stuff sent me absolutely worse there were moments where i was and also it's terrible and you think how could i possibly think that this was any worse than it is then you have your own baby and you're like oh which is also interesting in the position that you're in because being a doctor you would have seen so much through work and i know you've got a very different head on in those moments no i take the temperature of the room and i see whether a bit of a joke is the vibe you shouldn't be doing punch lines between compressions so as long as you're not doing that it tends to be fine no i tend i'm all yeah i treat the handover sessions like sort of a new material five minute stand-up thing just to try out a few little jokes see if people are receptive to it but no I've seen I've seen a fair amount of sort of stuff at work but I've always been quite good at compartmentalizing work from home and if I'm like on my way home and I'm still thinking about something at work if I haven't gotten over it by the time I park the car then I call up and I say oh could you look at this or what do you think about that and oftentimes they say go to bed they go to bed but I guess in those situations I guess the big difference to what we hear on the news is that in those settings, whatever is coming in hospital, you have a responsibility to solve or fix the problem and see what's going on.

10:28And I can do something about it. Whereas when it's on the news, it's out of your control. You look at these stories and you want to say don't, you know, people that have done awful things to children, don't do that, just give them to me, give them to me. I'd have a house full, I'll have them all, put them all in the house. And that was the thing that really surprised me because it was stuff that I already think is horrendous, these awful things that can happen to children, child abuse stories and all this. And you think, how could I possibly find that more galling? And then you have your own baby and it's a whole other.

10:52So that was definitely something that really surprised me because I've not really heard anyone. I know you hear people say, oh, God, when you've got your own children, you can't watch that on the news. My mum would say it all the time. And I'm like, mother, get a grip. For God's sake. But now I'm like, there's so many things. I just get it now. I totally get it. Did you always know that you wanted to have children? Yeah, but not in kind of like, I mean, I always had like baby dolls growing up, loved baby born, big fan. used to put them in front of the fire because they were always quite cold to touch and that freaked me out.

11:21So I'd always have them just a little bit... A little melted. Don't do that to real babies. They feel cold to touch, it's another issue. Peripherally, it's normal. So I did, but I was never like, that's my main end goal. And I think it's because I wanted to do medicine and be a doctor and work in A &E. So I kind of was on that trajectory and had that as my goal and was doing other stuff along the way. And I think I got to a point in my career where I was, I'd say like ready for family, but it was more so absolutely sick of medicine. really oh couldn't i just i'd i'd gone straight into uni from school yeah i'd gone straight from out of uni into a job i've gone i mean i remember when we would like swap specialties every four months in the first two years my mum would be like oh so do you get like a half term no mum i finished on a twilight at 2am and i'm on a day shift the next day and a new specialties no such thing we're not in kansas anymore and um so you know with no break and then i did take a low commute after I finished where I just worked like here and there and then I applied to specialty training then I've been in specialty training since then so I've been sort of the last 10 years has been well 15 if you encounter medical school which has been medicine and I was did pediatric A &E kind of make you go oh well no no because they're poorly you're a little poorly baby but when you see a really well baby you're like oh that's nice yeah but I always I've always liked babies anyway so it wasn't that that was the turning point it was the I just liked babies anyway and I would to be fair I would see babies and like fresh babies and everyone hated the fresh babies because they're very scared of them um but I love them oh the fresher the better did they did they uh were they scared of the fact that they were so fragile yeah yeah completely but the thing is and the way that I think like with with stuff at work is the sick people get frightened when people are really really sick yeah I love that not that they're really really sick I want them to be better giving shit man but um it's easy when babies are really poorly when a patient is really poorly it's easy to know what to do with them i actually find that more simple than oh actually what there's something not quite right here what's going on if they're super sick there's algorithms and there's things that are easier to manage than and some people prefer the managing of uncertainty that well i don't know what's going on but let's do this let's do that and i find that far more stressful sort of gp land stuff where you've got no investigations you've got sort of oh something's a bit odd i don't know what it kind of could be i prefer the like here's what's wrong here's how I can fix it kind of thing but but yeah no I I yeah I got to the point where I was just ready for a break from medicine it coincided nicely with sort of the age I wanted to be having a baby quite like my boyfriend too so that was kind of like an important part of it we'd bought a house so I was just a bit like yeah and did it happen quickly on the telly do you know what it did did it so much so that the day I actually found out I was pregnant on April Fool's Day, which was excellent.

14:01And I took the test only because my period should have arrived that day and I'm super, super regular. And we basically had sex once on a day. I was looking at my cycles and figuring out when I was fertile. And it was the last day where I could be ovulating. I was like, oh, shall we? And he was like, oh, if we must. No, he was like, yes, please. Sexy times. Yes. So enthusiastic. And I was like, OK, why not? And then my period didn't come on that day. And so I took a test by myself. and it was one of the little strip ones and it was so faintly positive. My boyfriend didn't believe me and he was just like, I won't do the accent.

14:34He's German. It's a really good accent though. And he was like, no, that doesn't look positive. And I was like, you're kind of telling the doctor here. If I was in the... A faint positive is a positive. Because I also was a bit like, I didn't have any scares growing up when I was pregnant. Most because I just must have been completely butters. No, I'm just... Got to get shagged to get pregnant. No, there's... Honestly, I got a fringe cut in when I was about 15. Yeah. And it's a hate crime on hair. It's like three... It looks a bit like what I put here. It was like three strands of hair just plastered over my forehead.

15:10I don't know what hairdresser did that to me. But I don't know. I'm furious at them. So it was no wonder I was getting no scares. So no scares. So also, though, that's the thing, right? So until you actually start trying, if you've had no scares, you don't even know if you can. No, this was it. And I was a bit like, oh, does this mean there's going to be... There was no reason why there should have been an issue. I had a very regular cycle, no sort of issues there. But I've tried not to be online and be like, yeah, it's really quick. Because I know it's hard. Because I spoke about breastfeeding, that I enjoyed breastfeeding and it had gone really well for me.

15:41And that came down on me like a ton of bricks, which I didn't expect it to. So I think I'd have to be a bit measured in what I say. But equally, yeah, it did. It just happened really quickly, which was frightening in its own sense. Because like I say, I was then really worried about like, the only thing was I actually did do that I'm quite pleased about was there was a night out. I say night out. We'd all finished nights at the same time. So everyone went out. So what do the doctors do when they leave you? Well, when you're in the middle of Manchester, the Weatherspoons is just around the corner.

16:09You do, unfortunately, sometimes see a patient you have just discharged. So you sort of just make sure you change out your scrubs. But I decided that day I wasn't going to drink. And I had one girl that I worked with, I had her sort of like... Okay. She knew I was trying to get pregnant. I don't want to be airing that to everyone because then they always imagine you shagging. I don't know, that's what I do. You tell me you're trying, I'm thinking about what it looks like. Not on purpose. Not on purpose. Do you also have that response when someone tells you that they're actually pregnant? Do you then just picture them the fact that they have done it?

16:45Do you know what? The weirdest thing that happens is my mind goes to envision their uterus and I guess how pregnant I think they are and then I think about what the baby might look like. Okay, so less shagging on that one. Yeah, don't think about the shagging. But if people tell me that, like when I said to my mum that my boyfriend and I were trying, I'd hated doing that because I was like, I'm basically saying, mum, we're not using protection. I let him finish.

17:10I grabbed him with my legs and I didn't let go, mum. Those leg days, that's what it feels like I'm saying. It's hideous, isn't it? So that's, yeah, sweating now. I should put my tiny fridge away. I'm feeling stuck to my forehead. So when you took that test, seeing that positive, how did that make you feel? So it was the funniest thing, really. Looking at the positive test was just like, it just felt really normal. I was like, oh, and it was almost kind of funny. Because it was very, and it was just exciting as well. And I remember then, I don't think, I don't think I went into my boyfriend in the morning because he was still asleep because I was on an early shift.

17:48I think I kind of just went to work. And I put my phone up in the car and I filmed a bit, being like, oh, I think I might be pregnant, which icked me out saying I'm pregnant. I'm such a child. Stuff like pregnant. Trying. I don't know. It gives myself the ick. I just love about that you're a doctor. I know. It's tragic, isn't it? Absolutely. But is it because you're saying it about yourself? Yeah, because I think it's bizarre. It definitely feels really bizarre, but almost in like a surreal kind of way, which maybe is why I wasn't like overly emotional because I was perhaps actually in disbelief.

18:18Yeah. But wasn't really aware that it was disbelief. I was like, oh yeah, that's crazy. because pregnancy is mental. I think it's the coolest thing in the world. And it's like the whole way through the pregnancy, if you would put me in a lie detector and said, do you genuinely believe there's a baby developing inside? I'd say no. And it would come up, I was telling the truth. Didn't buy it. And I thought, I'm keeping my eyes fixed firmly on the exit when I'm giving birth because they're going to just bring a baby out of a drawer. There's no way there's a baby in there. I think it's nuts. But then when the scans were, did it just feel so disconnected to what was actually going on inside?

18:50I think retrospectively, when I look back, I think it perhaps did. But I mean, I had a lovely pregnancy and I really enjoyed it and it was lovely. And I was aware that there was a baby there, but I just find that it's insane that you can spend however long it was. Shant air that. And then suddenly there's a baby growing. They need to build the man's confidence up. But yeah, I just think it's insane that that is a thing that can happen. I just I think it's amazing and it's wild. But yeah, I definitely felt like connected to the baby as he was growing and it was all good fun. And yeah, but yeah, just strange.

19:25I loved your baby announcement or pregnancy announcement and the fact that it was also a hard launch of your relationship as well. Yeah. There are people thinking looking in the back for like a turkey baster. They're seeing whether I've left it out. Yeah, completely. I mean, I got like obviously really nice comments like, congratulations, that's so exciting. and they're like, I thought you were gay. And I was like, ooh, that's a bit heteronormative of you. Gay people can have babies. I mean, my best mate's a gay man. Him and his partner have been trying, but nothing's really stuck just yet. They're trying very, very hard.

19:59But yeah, it did. I sort of pepper in I had a boyfriend or a partner and I used various terms. But it was a hard launch of that too. But I don't know, I kind of think that's... I mean, years ago when we were first together, when I just had a normal Instagram, he didn't want to be on it. And so I was like, he hates me. if he loves you, he posts you. And then I got over myself. And then I never did. And I'm really glad I didn't. And then, yeah, I essentially did hard launch a fetus and a father.

20:27And how was the rest of your pregnancy? Like, how did the shifts start getting a little bit more difficult? Yeah, I mean, I had a meeting with my supervisor and just basically like a risk assessment. And I just said, look, I don't want to do nights anymore. I don't want to do shifts that are longer than eight hours. and I was a little pregnant princess. It was wonderful. I mean, the thing is, I'm dreading going back because I'll go back and there's no special treatment anymore. No, no, no, you've got the baby. That's gone. Get back to work. Fully. So there were a few tricky occasions when I would be working because I was one of the more senior regs.

21:01I was working in the recess area, especially depending on what mix of staff grades you've got. And then I wasn't supposed to be doing chest compressions, but then the clinical need dictates and I sort of on occasion had to. and then if we were ever doing like portable x-rays in the recess i was out with the smokers just in case oh really yeah just i mean with that they shoot the beams in one direction they're not gonna there's not a lot of scatter you're absolutely fine and you can get an x-ray when you're pregnant it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but i was yeah neurotic and gone and you'd be like just having that you'd be around them a lot more than someone exactly did one exactly and i knew that i was i was finding i was being neurotic about things while I was pregnant so I rather than I was just giving myself fewer opportunities to be neurotic so I made sure I was taking a like a pregnancy vitamin and folic acid and I made sure I avoided like any patients that might have infections I didn't want to come into contact with I avoided doing a lot of pede stuff later on in case I came into contact with like chicken pox or measles or CMV or anything I didn't want to and it was less so because I thought I was going to be exposed but it was more so that I knew I would be neurotic so I just didn't allow and I didn't I just would have a maybe I had a little drink when they're pregnant.

22:08Probably just didn't do anything like that because I just thought, I know, then if anything should happen later down the line, I'm going to go, it was that. And it wasn't, it wouldn't have been. But I was aware I was being neurotic. Would you have described yourself as a neurotic person before pregnancy or do you reckon that just really, suddenly it wasn't just you anymore and that pulled it out? Exactly that, yeah. I think it was, I realised it was the first time that I was making decisions myself that were affecting another being. And I was like, okay, that's kind of a huge responsibility. And so that, I think I've had my moments of neurosis but mostly brought on by like being close to my period being tired it being late at night um then I would know I could be neurotic about things I was pretty good at talking it out getting over it and then you wake up the next morning you think oh I was tired well that's why I was being neurotic but then when there was another life involved I was like and the decisions didn't just affect me anymore yeah and that the consequence what the consequences could be and I was very aware of what the consequences could be from you know from what I've seen in work and I I think we all are aware of what can happen in pregnancy.

23:07So I definitely felt just, and also a huge responsibility for my partner because it's as much his baby as it's mine. I'm just growing it. So I also felt a huge responsibility there. And I think that's where the neurosis came from. So I just kind of tried to give myself fewer things to be neurotic about. I mean, I went to my sister's wedding when I must've been 30 weeks pregnant. And then it was away in Kefalonia. And after the wedding, I was Googling, can you dance too much while pregnant? you can't you can't I think it depends if you collide with the pole too many times what kind of dancing were you doing well no I wasn't doing any dancing centrifuge the baby no I was just I just thought it was funny to like wiggle my belly quite a lot and then I was like oh god have I been like shaking around but they're very well protected in there so I just gave myself fewer things to be neurotic about and that seemed to be the solution night shifts I would imagine that day shifts and night shifts within an A &E are very different and they must feel they're very different.

24:07So was part of cutting out the night shifts also a safety aspect, like a sleep aspect? Like, was it a multitude of things that made you kind of go, I'm going to try and get away from that? Yeah, it was both. So it was, I mean, I'm pretty good in that I'm kind of sleep anywhere. And so working shift patterns doesn't really bother my sleep, my circadian rhythm, because I think it's a bit messed up anyway. so that was a factor of absolutely because sleep is much harder when you're pregnant and you're trying to get comfortable but then also absolutely it's a safety thing so as a so I was an ST5 so training for A &E goes up to ST6 so I'm quite senior so if I was on a night shift I'd be when the consultant goes home I'd be the most senior in the department as a doctor anyway and that comes with it a lot of decision fatigue you get lots of juniors coming to ask you questions and you're sort of making these decisions.

25:00Sometimes you go review the patient, sometimes you don't give a verbal thing, so there's a lot of decision fatigue there. And I didn't think mum brain was a thing. And I don't know whether it's like rooted in patriarchal values, but my brain was very busy. I think I was growing human. I found that decision fatigue set in a lot quicker, so that was one thing. Also, it was a city centre hospital, so you get a lot of drunk, violent people. We're quite near one of the prisons, and near the airport as well, so you get quite a lot of what we call acute behavioural disturbance. And these are people who are so...

25:27They're either it's drug related, it's mental health related, but oftentimes the proper acute behavioral disturbance, it's drug related. And so they are on one. But to the point where if they're held down, they will exert so much energy trying to move that the muscles start breaking down, poison the kidneys, they die or they get, yeah, they get hypothermic, they get too hot, they die. I mean, there was a patient that I wasn't working, but I saw in the news came from Manchester Airport, been restrained by the airport and died. And that would have been because he was being restrained and he was obviously on some sort of drug.

25:57So you get these really frightening, difficult patients. And at the point where I was, I also was a bit like, I'm not going to really show because I'm quite long. I was enormous. So there were points where I was like, it would just be unsafe to be in a situation where you've got people who are flailing out and also to be heavily pregnant. And again, you'd have to have a pretty hard hit to the belly to cause real problems. But again, I'm not risking that to be in your off to give up. I mean, I was in like the lowest energy rear shunt on the motorway and I went to matriarch. I advocate just going in just go in if you're a little bit worried just go in no one minds but also that even being if you would have worked nights having that energy around knowing that that adrenaline kind of going through your body that's where my mind would go no and I think that's probably not I think I don't find it as stressful I think there were people that would come in and sort of see what a night shift looks like and would be like oh are you alright and I'd be like it's pretty standard and actually night shifts are quite good fun really because the consultant goes home, you can run the department, you can kind of cherry pick and see the fun patients, you can boss people around.

27:01And there's more computers because there's fewer staff. There's actually spaces to see patients because there's fewer staff. There's all the benefits. Like, I don't mind a night shift. But, yeah, it was definitely the rest, the sleep, and the safety aspect as well. And then there's always a risk if you're being, like, a lone female clinician too in a big hospital, but things could happen. So that was always a safety thing too. And then, like, driving to and from. So it was sort of several reasons. but it's a really typical thing. There are quite a lot of women that I work with who sort of thug it out for a bit long and I'm like, girlies, if they're giving us the opportunity to take it, we've earned it.

27:35You know, I felt like I'd done my time in service. Yeah. I thought I've earned this. And I also knew that, again, from the side of being neurotic, it would help me feel less neurotic and it was great and I was really well supported to do it. But yeah, coming off nights was... I'm not dreading going back on nights. They're quite good fun, really. Really? Yeah. You're not just enjoying your sleep. Well, I mean, you've got a baby. If anything, he's doing you a favour. Because he doesn't want you to feel that 10 till 7 sleep. He's keeping me on the shift work. He sometimes just comes in and beats the shit out of me like an ABD would.

28:11He keeps it fresh. He goes out and gets drunk. Great at malingering. To be honest, he's not sleeping particularly well at the minute, but I've got great support from my partner, especially I can take him in the morning and it's like first wake window and I can then sleep a bit longer. But it's not affecting me too badly and I think it's because of all the shift work I've done. You know to get sleep when you can. Yeah, like every blink is a tiny, tiny little nap. When it came to your pregnancy and getting ready for labour and delivering, did you have ideas of what you wanted that to look like before you'd even got pregnant or was it just when you were pregnant that you were suddenly like, I've got to get it out now, how am I going to do it?

28:55Well, prior to giving birth, I thought I was really well prepared and I was like excited for it. I wanted to see what it felt like. I knew I wanted to try for vaginal delivery. I knew I didn't want to have any medication because I wanted to know what it would feel like. Also the idea of a C-section, that is mega. That is some serious surgery and that is, oh, like the idea of that makes, that's nuts. I think it's really important for people to hear a doctor say that as well. It's the gnarly, like childbirth and a C-section are the two gnarliest things I've ever seen. When I was on my elective, I went to South Africa and I worked in a small township hospital and I was assisting with the C-sections.

29:32And it is gnarly. It's a serious, serious surgery. There is no way that anyone that says that's easier or that's the easy way out or two point rubbish. That is a serious surgery. so I knew the idea of that again, gun to my head do I believe I've got organs? not really I find that bizarre I used to think there were tiny men that would stand on the inside of my ribs and I would eat food and they'd be holding these brown bin bags and they'd catch it and drop it and that was all that was going on saying this, they're going to take my licence away from me I mean medical school must have been wild for you I was like, what do you mean?

30:12where are the little men? but I find like I don't know I just find that I obviously now I've got organs but I find that's insane as well um so the idea of poking in and around I think I think I'd I'd have a crisis I think I'd spin out um so I knew I wanted to know what labor felt like and I was genuinely really really excited and then when it finally happened I was like nine days overdue and I'd had a very enthusiastic sweep and I was like cramping after but I was like oh yeah like I always cramp after that will go away. And even though I was so excited and like waiting for labour, waiting for labour, I gaslit myself into thinking, no, no, this back pain and these like cyclical tightenings and pain I'm having, I've just got a new backache.

30:53That's not labour. And I was in the shower, bending over, having to wait, go back up again. That's weird. Can't be labour. I went and blow dried my hair, had to stop. And I was using this app that tracks contractions. And it was, I did about 10 and it went, you are an established labour. And I was like, I need to get that refunded because this app is rubbish. It's not working. It's broken. And then I was like, oh, because the thing was, I was having this constant back pain. So I was like, why am I in constant pain? I thought there'd be like a warm muscular surge. You did hit the burping, didn't you?

31:25Oh, I read it and I wish I hadn't forgotten it quite as quick as I did when it all actually kicked off. But surge can get in the bin. I never cared about surge. I didn't care about terminology at all. It was a surge if like you could describe like grinding a pestle and mortar together as a surge. Like my pelvis was whichever one is the bowl. And it was getting that it was low and it was bony and it was sharp. It wasn't this like warm, muscular pain. It didn't feel like how I thought it would at all. And I think by the time I sort of been like, oh, like we called matriarch and I had to stop talking on the phone and I gave myself the ick.

32:04I was like, what do you mean I can't talk because I'm in pain? What do you mean I can't talk? and it was these things that I think people tell you oh yeah well the pain will be so you can't talk through it and you're like yeah whatever well yeah maybe you can't loser and then it happens to you and you're like oh my gosh and I just don't think you get it until you do it and my mum's face when she came in to visit me after I'd had the baby she was like you just don't know until you've done it I was like you're right mum but then I realised I was in labour and it was a hairy old drive to the hospital and it was the one I worked at.

32:37How long was the drive? Only like 15 minutes. I had four contractions and they would last like a minute and a half. They were really close together. I mean, I went from like, I'd been two centimetres like the whole week before. I went from two to eight centimetres in about two and a half, three hours. And then when I arrived at the hospital, I begged for the diamorphine. My boyfriend was like, are you sure? It's a birth plan. It says you have to use the password. I love that you've done the accent. It's really accurate. It is. And I was like, I'm sure. So I had some diamorphine but then the midwife went through the notes with me afterwards and they've written, Maddie does not seem to be experiencing the analgesic effect, so the pain relief effect of the morphine.

33:13I was just off my tits. At one point, my boyfriend took the gas and he goes, I think now we should breathe some oxygen. But yeah, so I got in the pool. The pool was lovely. I'm not a bath person, mostly because I don't fit in any of them. I just don't like the idea of like sitting in my own... No, I was the same. I was the same. And then I was a bit like, you get the very much sensation that you're going to poo. And then I did. And I knew it wasn't the baby coming out because I had to pinch it off. So I thought, that's not him, is it? Is that how they come out? No. And then I saw the student chasing it around the pool.

33:46There were these brilliant sort of brief moments of sentience that I had because I was on the gas now. I had a bit of the dimorphine. And I also, I think it was animalistic. I went inwards. I just went completely inwards. And like time, I had no concept. And I also was like, I'm not going to make any noise during labour. and I was moving like a farmyard animal. It was like E-I-E-I-O. I'm like, on that farm, they had a cow. I was like, I won't make any noise. And I couldn't stop. But then I'd read in hypnobirthing to keep the noises low and that would help sort of keep the energy down there. But then there were moments where I was like, I was like, surely it's finished now.

34:26And it wasn't. I would do a really loud scream. That was quite good fun. My boyfriend went out to park the car and he says, I had forgotten the rooms that you were in. I followed the screams. But I look back on it really fondly. It was great and I want to do it again. Do you? Yeah.

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36:05I love the fact that you made a video where you went through all of your birth preferences and they basically, they were all met. Yeah. But one thing which I found fascinating is whenever you've talked about the student midwife. Yes. I love this. because my friend's training to be a student midwife at the moment and I've never, I don't know if it was even an option actually in my birth but I love the fact that you were given the option and your reasons for it, for saying no to a student midwife and then how that flipped actually when you were there. Yeah, and I think that is another thing that sort of goes to show you can have these preferences and these plans and these ideas of how it will go and then the reality can be very different and so it's about having what your preferences might be but also knowing that you might flip-flop on them.

36:48The thing was, because I obviously work as a doctor and I've been used to when I'm working having students and sometimes that can be great. Just want a birth without a student in the room. Yeah, and I was a bit like I'd done my bit, you know. And then I'd had some experiences with some medical students that had been not ideal or they'd been sort of not very professional and you kind of, you've seen how the sausage is made. So you kind of know what it's like to be a student and how they can be great. They might not be as well. And I'd had an issue with a student during my pregnancy where something got miscommunicated and got done wrong and it just caused a little bit of bother.

37:21It was nothing serious at all, but it caused a little bit of a bother. And also I'm terrible in that I feel like I have to entertain everyone in the room. And I'm like, there's one extra person. I just can't, like, it's too many. So I had said that I didn't want any students. And then when it came to the day of, we were in the room. Initially I was going to get induced because I was over and then I went into spontaneous labour. So I got to go to the birth centre, so buzzing. walking in there was a student and my boyfriend had printed off the birth plan and had given it to them and I hadn't realised because I'm sort of moving somewhere in the stable and I walk over and the student is reading the bit that says no students please but at this point there was a wonderful marriage between the diamorphine and the gas and air and I was like, Becky love, you can stare because she was absolutely excellent at counter pressure because I was having basically a back labour because he wasn't back to back, but he was sort of on his side a bit, which meant I was feeling it a lot in my back and I was getting that constantly.

38:22And when then I was having a contraction, I was having constant pain in my back, but when I was having a contraction, I was having this really severe back pain and someone commented on my videos and they said, they worded it perfectly and it feels like you're going to shit out your spine. And it was that, but she did this counter pressure where she just pushed exactly where it was hurting. I was calling her back over. she had these tiny warm hands and she would just do this incredible counter pressure i said like you've got to show my to do it again i was like becky please come back um so but at that point as well i realized the benefit to the midwife of having the student there because there's so much documentation they've got to do which obviously i'm aware of the amount of documentation there is in medicine so she was able to delegate documentation she could go off and like go off and grab things so i always had um someone in the room with me she never had to sort of split her attention they also thought whenever i've had a student your attention can be split between your patient and your student and i sort of thought as the patient i don't want a clinician whose attention is split yeah but actually what i realized was student midwife allowed the midwife to give me more attention because she could delegate um and it was just another like encouraging voice in the room as well and that was what i thought i didn't need i thought i didn't need all this encouragement and then eventually i was like can you all say really nice things please and can you all count when I'm pushing?

39:37And so I did change my mind there. And what was it like suddenly being the patient? Like, have you had any, like, have you needed to be the patient before? No, not really. I mean, like, as a kid, I broke bones, but never really as an adult. I've never been a patient. But the great thing was the birth centre didn't feel particularly clinical and also the lighting was so low that it just, it felt, it didn't feel clinical at all. Did it feel more like an experience? It did, it did, yeah. And also, like, I haven't done an obs and gynae job. I did bits on my elective, but I didn't walk into this room and be like, no, yeah, I know this room.

40:12I wasn't familiar with it. So I kind of felt, again, I went so inward that I felt like I blacked out for it and then I sort of came back to after he was born and was like, okay. So being on the ward after was a bit bizarre, but it was just sort of a new experience. You describe it one bit where it's like you're not pushing, your body is doing. It's a bizarre feeling. This was the thing. I think no one communicated the intensity. It's a sensation. And I can still, if I can feel it now, I can imagine now. It was just like, I remember thinking, because the pain was just immeasurable, but also the intensity of the sensation too and the character of the pain was just not what I expected.

40:56and I remember thinking there's no way a person can experience this level of pain and not die I was and I'd made peace with it it was like the first time I flew whiz air I was like I'm probably gonna die and I'm kind of okay with it at this point but it was this but it was this like bizarre sort of peace where I think I sort of just like gave it all over to my body I was like okay girl I'm not gonna die but but it just it was so intense and my body starts like involuntarily push while I was in the pool and it was after I got out the pool they found I was eight centimeters or so I can't remember how round it was but um and I sort of was involuntarily pushing in the pool um just because I just I couldn't not uh but also I was sort of moving him down an amount and then he was slipping back right and this was another moment where I was cringing and it's so stupid because of the positions I'd just been in like I'd been on the birthing stall which is like a toilet seat with a kind of illegitimate child with a picnic chair and um all of that that was whatever there's a mirror underneath whatever but then i was lying on my back and they said you know pull back on your knees and i was like no you're gonna see my bum hole i'm shy no need a fan and then that was the only time where i could really shift him down and i gave myself the ick which is pathetic for everything that happened up until that point and then i was like no this is actually the line i just love the fact that with all of your medical knowledge and background that you know we say to people they see it every day oh yeah but you're giving yourself the ick i give myself like numerous times and it would like creep up and oh ick again but i do i always find myself wondering if i had just kept pulling back on my knees that i could have shifted in myself oh really so um i was i was also exhausted i think i've been pushing for two hours and it was i went into labor like 6 7 p.m so it was sort of going through the night and I was getting tired and I was sweating and also I had these real moments where there was this wave of fear because the sensations were so intense and then you sort of think well that's as intense as it's going to get and then got more intense well and when you've had that involuntary pushing to know your body is just going yeah like to feel that wash of fear isn't that surprising I think it's like you you try to let yourself go along with it but it's really hard to do that um so I did have these moments of just feeling like starting to feel quite panicked um And everything was going fine.

43:12I think actually also when I was in the pool, they couldn't get the heartbeat just logistically because they couldn't reach around wherever to get it. And so then I sort of said, look, I'm getting really tired. I don't know. And I was saying things like, how many more pushes? It was giving like, are we there yet? Like I'm this annoying kid in the back seat putting stickers on the window and picking their nose and saying, are we there yet? How many more pushes? And so they brought one of the obstetricians in. She examined me and they do like, they did a catheter to see whether I had a full bladder, whether that was stopping him coming down.

43:41I wonder if I had like pull back on my legs and really just gone. Maybe I could have done it, but I kind of would get him and he would slip back. So I went to the labor ward then and had a vacuum delivery. So they put a little cap on his head. I mean, the hilarious thing was they moved me from the birth center to the labor ward to do this. And at work, we would have like standbys that would come in that we're prepared for. So they call us up. They say we're coming in. It's what we're having. We prepare the recess cubicle and we'd wait for them and they'd arrive. And I always was a bit like, it would be so funny to be that patient.

44:08And all these people waiting for you. and they're wheeling me to labour ward and the doors are open and there's people standing there. I'm like, oh my God, what's happening? Who's coming in? And I'm like, it was me. And it was bizarre and they were all waiting for me. They were all waiting for hats on. It's very exciting. And they popped the little cap on his head and then, I mean, six to eight minutes later, two contractions, he flew out. So it was just the cap. They don't sort of pull him out when you've pushed down. They just keep that tension and just stop him slipping back and it just sort of helped me get him around the corner and then he flew out.

44:36And I felt his shoulders and knees and stuff. I can still picture my boyfriend was down the business end. I had an episiotomy, which some doctors do as standard on an instrumental delivery. It's not always necessary, but it healed really well. And then, who knew, I tore my labia. And I actually think I tore it off. What? Because I'm certain I've got one and a half now. I'd show you, but I'm not going to do that. I'm certain it's one and a half. Really? Yeah. I mean, God bless, it was all very taut down there. Right. So no wonder at all. It was under a lot of pressure already. so having been quite you know um about pregnancy and kind of like just kind of things are happening oh that's nice that's good how did it feel when you were finally meeting him it was similar to finding out i was pregnant i was like oh there he is yeah and again there wasn't that like wave of emotion my partner was incredibly emotional and that was really lovely to see and he was obviously i think it's so different from the partner's perspective to watch it all happening to you know i think he's traumatized is too strong a word but he's affected by it absolutely um but i remember just i remember being so grateful that the pain had stopped for sure um but then i also remember feeling like this sense of like trepidation of them is it is that pain going to come again is it going to come again i was almost in this like waiting like is it again no it's finished now no more is it and the placenta was really easy to birth like a massive period clot yeah and i looked at the placenta it's incredible and then i donated it to anthony nolan for the cord blood actually something you can do they only do it in like with inshore like central manchester and i think i forget there's not many places that do it but um didn't hang on to that but yeah i remember they put them on me i was like i think i i think i i approached all of it like pregnancy in this very sort of matter of fact and I think that when he was there I was like oh hello yeah I don't know it just felt really normal did you feel like an instant bond because I feel a lot of people there's this um this pressure or this expectation that we're going to get a rush and there's suddenly going to be this bond no did that worry you at all that you didn't feel it no I think I just I wondered how I would feel whether there would be that like sort of rush and there wasn't, but I wasn't sort of waiting for it either.

46:54And I wondered what I think I was really tired and I was grateful that the pain was over. And so that was occupying a lot of my mind. But no, it never worried me. I just kind of thought that it just felt really normal. And I'm not really like a rainbows and glitter sort of person anyway. So I was a bit like, I don't know, it all just felt really normal. So I definitely didn't have that wave. I love that though, that baby's on you. Like your little one's on you and you're like, this is us. Yeah, I was like, okay, cool. formal introductions can wait I was just happy and having quite a nice time and feeding, that all sort of slotted into well, Becky the student midwife launched the child onto my nipple immediately and he latched and I was like, Becky for president also my midwife was Lydia and she was fantastic as well and my community midwife was Lisa and I loved them and I'm saying all this now because I didn't get them a card I had all these dreams, I was like I'm going to make my basket bring it all in I've definitely said that every single time I've been like Lisa, Lydia and Beckett just listen to the podcast I love you when I was in the hostel with him I just kept trying any chance I got put him on and I was pressing my buzz to get the midwife he won't latch, he won't latch and it's because the child was asleep so that's why but yeah, just any time his mouth was open and the best advice I got was whop your nipple in so get his mouth nice and wide open and you just shove it in as far as it will go.

48:18And then I remember the first time I could see that he was swallowing it, and I was like, I took a video. I was like, oh. So I just tried really hard with breastfeeding. I kept going. It was a real just non-negotiable for me. It just was something that I was definitely going to do. Where do you think that came from? My mum breastfed my sister and I until we were like 14 months or something, so that I kind of was aware of that. The idea of breastfeeding just felt normal and right to me, I think equally for some women, it doesn't feel normal and right. And I think it's interesting to unpick that because I think it's great and I think everyone should give it a go.

48:51And if they do feel that way about it, it's important to talk about it. But for me, it just felt like the normal, the right thing to do. And it's really convenient for me. There are moments where it's not, when you're leaking down yourself, when you're engorged, when you're in public and they won't latch, when they sort of reject the nipple, then it's not convenient at all. And you're thinking, why am I doing this? And I did quite a lot of colostrum expressing, not that we really use very much of it. The harvesting. Yeah, I think that got me really used to hand expressing too. So I kind of had like an understanding of being able to hand express.

49:20And I think that helped then with breastfeeding too. It might, you know, I wonder if something like that also sort of warms up the mechanics somehow. I think it might do. Because I didn't, I don't know, 12 years ago we weren't talking about colostrum harvesting. So it wasn't even a thing. Suddenly, you know, I had different midwives trying to like syringe stuff. Make a C shape. but they were so we're getting them into like needles and then feeding him that way so it was very well I didn't care who touched my boobs at that point whereas I think actually they're very good at asking permission you're like respectfully ask once at the top I'm yours also I don't you're trying to tell me what to do I don't know so just hands on I'm fine and I do think that hands on thing is really helpful because it does just get you used to it but yeah it was just I just think breastfeeding is great and so I just kept the persistence was key so just any time his mouth was open and put my nipple in, put my nipple in, just kept doing it, kept doing it.

50:13I did a video about breastfeeding and I sort of talked about the position, tummy to mummy, so don't have them this way, have them this way. Hold the back of their neck, not the back of their head so they can arch back and you can aim for the roof of the mouth, pop it in at the back. Why it hurts, if it hurts. Like one of the midwives says, if it's hurting a bit, count down from 10. If it's still hurting, take them off and try again. And often when it hurts, it's because they're not got a deep enough latch. They're pressing your nipple above the roof of their mouth, so it really hurts. and I did this video and I was talking very enthusiastically about it and it I don't know what happened but I got it wrong and it hit the wrong side and people were like how dare you say that I think they misunderstood it that I was saying it's easy and you have to do it and I found it easy and I did say I think I've had a good experience because I kept it simple and by that I meant I didn't try and build a freezer stash of milk I didn't try pumping all I did for at least the first four months of his life was just feed him I never pumped there was one time where he went on a boycott.

51:09So I hand expressed into a bottle, gave him that to get him regulated, then fed him again from the breast. But I just kept it simple and I only fed from the breast. I didn't introduce pumps. I didn't introduce anything else. And unfortunately, it got a real, really surprising, really negative response. So I took it down because I was about to go to bed. And I thought, I can't be able to do that. See, all I've seen is your response. Yeah, which a lot of people saw was just the response. But I was really gutted and I wish I'd screenshot some of the comments because they were vicious. It sounds like that video was really informative.

51:41It's really hard. So whenever we post Happy Mum, there are two topics that are really divisive. Sleeping. Have I brought them all up? No, no, no. Sleeping and feeding. Those are the two things that I feel like we spend so much, we have so much angst and there's so much pressure and judgment, a lot from ourselves to ourselves. Absolutely. When it comes to those things, when those topics come up, it just fires people up. Yes. and people want to express something. And if they've had a really bad experience, they can feel like a personal assault on them. And I had people sharing their stories and the people I've had who really, really wanted to breastfeed and I think they thought I was minimising how it could be.

52:19Yeah. But I ended up re-uploading it because it did happen. Oh, yeah. It went up the next day. It had useful information in it and I sort of did the post and I got a really positive response from that. So I thought I'm going to put that video back up, but I'll take a video down. If I want to sleep that night and it's gone wrong, that's coming down. Because there are no rules. I don't care about the algorithm. It doesn't exist. It's a mythical beast. I'm not going to sacrifice anything for the algorithm. So I did take it down. But then I also, I will always reflect and I think, well, did I get that wrong?

52:48And then I thought, no, I don't think I did. And I could understand how people had misconstrued it. But it just, I really wish I'd screenshot some of the things because they were vicious. Really vicious. The people that are putting it, putting it in their story saying, this doctor says that breastfeeding is the easiest, like direct quotes that I hadn't said. Wow. And I remember I DM'd one of them and I was like, I was like, girl, I didn't say that. It was, but I, again, it caught me, you know, by surprise. I talk about controversial things and there are hills I will absolutely die on. And when I post about those things, I am, I'm aware and I'm sort of, I'm braced.

53:22So I bring up vaccines, I hide behind the sofa for a little bit. But with this, I posted it as a bit like, oh, I'll post something today. Do you know what? I've got that. I'll post that. Didn't think another thing of it. And then it went terribly. But no, it got posted the next day. It sounds like it's just a really informative video of your experience and the things that you have found out that have helped you. It's not saying you should do this. And I think if I'd caveated, hi, guys, this is just my experience. But I just think that that's belittling to women that are watching it because I understand and expect women watching things, they are aware when they're watching that it's someone's own.

53:57And I'm not going to spoon feed to them and be like, you know, and pussyfoot around. I don't think women need that. We've been doing this for nine years now and the amount of times people need to caveat, you know, but I know I found it really difficult. I know I had, I know I did, you know, all these things, but I really love my baby. Because I also thought, yeah, I also thought, well, when I re-upload it, shall I re-record it and upload it with a caveat? And it was, my boyfriend's very good with sense-checking things and he was like, no, you haven't said anything wrong and I will trust and he will say, no, it's absolutely fine.

54:23But you're a bit like, but you're German. Very, very direct. But then now he constantly says things like, if someone, if I say, oh, like, I'll make up a story, someone will be like oh my mate's struggling with this thing at the minute he'll be like just tell them that it's the easiest thing in the world and not to overthink it because that's what i said about breastfeeding don't overthink it and they'll be like why don't you tell them to not overthink it and i'm like funny shut up he is very funny but about like really annoying things you're laughing but like through gritted teeth you're like this is encouraging you but he's very very funny but yeah i i it makes me feel sick as well when things but there are things like when i talk about vaccines I know the comments that I'm going to get and a lot of times people will say things like you know I'm going to report you on you shouldn't this and I'm like well get in line and so it does it makes you feel sick and they're in your phone and your phone is very personal to you and it's horrible I don't like it and I think when it's on a topic like abortion and vaccines and vitamin k and you know all these things that I am passionate about I'm like whatever I know but When it's things that either I didn't expect that response or I'm, you know, you know, I think I might have gotten something a bit wrong.

55:33It's harrowing. It's awful because point one, it's unpleasant from a selfish point of view. It's unpleasant. It's not very nice. But also point two, I don't want to get things wrong. I don't want to upset people. So it's it doesn't happen very often because I kind of keep things light occasionally, pepper in a little bit of the dark. And then I'm like, oh, no, look, I'm just silly and dancing. Don't shout at me. I'm just silly. it's all very thought out no I wish it was but no it rarely happens I mean broadly I get really good response yeah to stuff that I do so um it's all an illusion how have you found the last eight months oh it's great yeah I've really liked it I know I'm awful aren't I and mentally how have you been I'm fine no I've been a bit mental um I definitely have had like I've been neurotic I've had i've definitely had a bit of like i wouldn't say like postpartum rage but i definitely was snapping yeah quite a lot in the early in the early um sort of few years still happening um yes before and after no i don't i i've been so aware of it but then like i think because i've been so aware that i'm always i'm pretty good at knowing why i feel a certain way like if i'm feeling really erotic am i tired am i about to go my period all these sorts of things so i think because i'm aware that it's postpartum i can kind of be like okay i'm aware that i'm feeling this way and that's why and there definitely have been these moments of like feeling like genuine panic and upset that I can't help every baby in the world and I want to rescue all of them um real panic about like little things to do with the baby like I almost went and got myself like a 600 pound genetic test to see if I carried any x-linked conditions that I could pass down and I'm like it always happens at night on my phone being like yeah let's have apple pay it would be so easy but overall it's been amazing and watching him develop is like the cutest, best, most amazing thing ever and doing that with my partner has just been wonderful there have been moments where I've been a moody little bitch but I'm aware of that It's the awareness, I think as long as we're aware I'm like darling I know I'm being moody but you're really eating quite loudly Can we just stop breathing for a second?

57:42Yeah, just everyone Mummy needs a second so there have been of course there have been moments but it's been it's been really really wonderful and I thought I'd be mourning more like all the things that now he's not a tiny baby anymore but every new version he becomes I just love even more and I just can't wait for all the new things he will be I think I've always tried really hard to live in the present and to never be like oh well when when I'm in medical school when I've graduated when I this because you'll keep moving your goalposts further or when he's when he's weaned well when he's in nursery when And he's this when he's that.

58:13I've tried very much to just live in the moment with him. And it's just great. I just think it's the nicest thing. I'm having a lovely time. I'll have 12 more. Not with my current, but I know he's not keen. Any offers? I just need to be impregnated. If you could write a letter on motherhood, who would it be to and what would you say? I've thought about this one so much. And I tried so hard to think of something profound. And I really, I really don't know. there's oh I don't know if I would have anything worth saying that would benefit anyone

58:50and that is the end of that no I really really don't know because I just feel like there's nothing you can say that sums it up that's doing it yeah and then the only the only thing that I do keep coming back to and I don't want to talk about her because I think she's horrible but it's that porn star that's... And I really, really... And the only reason I ever did a video about her was because it was weighing... And when I was also very postpartum, definitely was having an affair, it was weighing so heavily on me I had to figure out why I felt the way I felt about it and I had to get it out. And that doesn't often happen because I can kind of like, yeah, think about it, talk it out with someone, but this one else I had to.

59:36and I do wonder if I'd write to her. Really? Yeah, and that is, when I've been thinking about that question, that is the one place I've always come back to. She's now had the baby because unfortunately I find myself going back and checking her Instagram and she's had the baby and there's videos where she's blurred out the entire child. There's absolutely nothing visible and that to me says that she knows what arena she's bringing this child into. She understands, obviously I don't post my child at all because I didn't want to anyway. I want to keep him as my little baby but also I know what the internet can be like and especially now I made the decision long before the concerns about AI and whatever it's really really complicated I think so your letter to her would be trying to understand her I think I think it would be and I wonder talking about it now whether it would be to make me feel better because if she would say something you know I think it would I think it would be wanting to hear the things I want to hear from her to say no I'm going to protect my child in this way.

1:00:36It is all just fake. It's not real. Because obviously I've never watched any of the material. So I don't even know if it's actually, do you know what I mean? If it's actually happening. I know you don't like saying her name, but I guess for the sake of the listeners who, to save them, it's Bonnie Blue. Yeah, yeah. Imagine if you said someone else, I'd be like, tea! No! Who, what is this? Who, you know, has very much documented her pregnancy and monetised. Fetishised. The baby shell. and that's where I have issue. That was the thing, you know, that I make poor Molly pregnant but it was the baby shower and I think it's just because I was so aware of what it was like to bring a child into the world and for them to have been a potential child and then a real child and that transition between what was a potential child to what was a real thing was unbelievable to me and I kind of also think knowing that it was her first child she hasn't had that shift and I think there was almost a part of me that was like oh my god, for your own sake, don't do this because there are things that I didn't do while I was pregnant, you know, like not drinking and trying to be healthy and all that stuff because I was concerned about my future child and how I would feel if something had happened to them as a real child.

1:01:46And I almost was trying to say to her, God, don't do it because you're going to regret this. I don't want you to regret this. I don't want you to because I know how strongly I feel now that I've had a baby and how it's shifted everything. And I almost didn't want her to do that. And there's been one video I have seen where she kind of talks about, and she goes, yeah, the kid's fine, and she's doing this really nonchalant sort of thing, and I'm like, our heart breaks. I'm like, are you filled with regret? Yeah, is that what she thinks, or is she putting that out there so she can still be seen as a sexualised human and not as a mother?

1:02:18Because it's very clear on her videos what she thinks of us. Yes, but I resent talking about her, because I know that that's her goal, and she does well to drum up that attention, but I think yeah it was I think before I was pregnant before I had a child it would have I would have been like I don't like the idea of that can't really put my finger on why and I would have moved on yeah but then there's just something that changed when I had the baby and I was like um but I just felt I was really surprised how strongly I felt about it and I've never and I and I wouldn't do because I I do think this is all a facade it's all a bravado and there is a different woman behind this character that she creates.

1:03:00But no, I mean, I've had sort of comments on the video that say that's not very pro-choice of me, but it's just so much more nuanced than that. Yeah. Yeah, and there was just... That's just the one thing I kept coming back to. Has motherhood been what you thought it would be?

1:03:18Yeah, there's been about as much cake and coffee and walks around the park. There's been a lot of that, which I was led... And a lot of brunch. I've enjoyed that's nice yeah it has yeah again it's this kind of like I didn't have real set kind of he's the first grandchild on both sides so I didn't really have anything to directly compare it to yeah I think for me it's the how quickly it's gone how quickly he's changed has been the real surprise surprising thing I think you imagine you're going to have this baby little baby that you do this with for a really long time and now I've got something that I'm wrestling like I'm trying to feed him and he's acting like my nipple is like some sort of like I don't know like a poison and he's like doesn't want it so the the way that they get so big so quick and they get their personality so quick that's really surprised me I mean I remember my parents would come into A &E and they'd say things like they're like five or six months old they're just not their normal self and I'm like how do you you don't know what then they're six months old how can you know what they're normally like and I'm like oh my gosh I get it yeah I was like I believe them I was like yeah I believe you that he's not his normal self but I couldn't understand that I was like how can you know what they're like they're like six months old they're like I've got mates you know for six months you know anything about them it's a brand new person but then you have your own you're like oh my gosh yeah he's he's not right or something slightly off so that's really surprised me do you think you will change the kind of doctor you are when you're back I think it will yeah yeah I think I definitely think when I'm seeing children I'm obviously always ask the questions about feeding and sleep but I understand it more now.

1:04:51I mean, we don't like cover particular infant feeding in medical school. I think if you go to a lot of to go any job, that's a bit different in midwifery, of course. But now I kind of, I get that a bit better and there's that sort of level of understanding and it's almost like, you know, you walk past like another mum on the street and you're like, a little nod. You'll finally hurt too. It's a lot better. We end the podcast with you completing three sentences. I've been thinking about these as well. Have you? I know. I'll give it my best shot. Okay. It's easy. Just don't think it. Don't overthink it.

1:05:24No, I'll say something. Don't you start. Don't overthink it. It's easy. First one is being a mum means. So this one, right? Being a mum means that it feels like you live with your favourite celebrity, like your baby's your favourite celebrity. And every time you see them, you're like, I can't believe it's you. You're in my house. And I saw this meme that said that, and I was like, that is bang on. Every time I see him, I'm like, oh, it's you. Hello. Like, I'll go in and get him for my nap. I know he's in there. Everyone's like, it's you. That. And I think it's you live with your favourite person, and they're related to you, and they love you when they need you, and that's lovely.

1:06:09Yeah, it is lovely. Next sentence. Since having a child, I.

1:06:17um i think i'm happier yeah i'm i'm yeah i'm happier and i i feel i feel more i feel i feel the most me actually i wonder if that's also linked back to um not stressing as much about other things yeah i think it's given me a focus of and it's shown me like and then there are other things in women's lives that can be as important or more important than children and i think our careers are really important and it doesn't usurp that it's a whole other parallel yeah achievement it's a whole other parallel feeling of something that's amazing and I think I've had um I've been satisfied I've had achievements in my career and it doesn't overtake that but it kind of sits parallel to it and it's up here yeah and I still have all these wonderful achievements and I still am myself but then there's this other sort of thing that's just it lends perspective to everything it doesn't you know it does it just and I think that's that's inbuilt but also it's like you know I was talking about how it's almost unbelievable that you can even grow and birth a child and then they grow and change in front of you.

1:07:16And I think it gives you a whole new perspective on life. So I think, yeah, I've been just a bit more... I think I've been allowed to be a bit more me because I've had fewer roadblocks of silly worries of this or that. And you can sort of go back to the one thing that's really important. That's lovely. Yeah. Cringe. And finally, I'm happy when? I'm happy when when the baby wakes at maybe like 5 o 'clock in the morning and it's a bit early for him to wake up so I put him in the bed with me and he falls asleep next to me and his breath smells like milk and we have a little cuddle and he also started doing this thing where I'll go to I'm trying to like rock him to sleep less feed him to sleep a bit less which I've started reading boring anyway so I lay him in the bed with me I lay next to him and he rolls over he snuggles in puts his head on my arm and falls asleep.

1:08:11Oh! And I'm also happy when I pick him up and he grabs me and squeezes me. He is also biting me on the shoulder at the same time. But I'm like, oh, a lovely, lovely, lovely mummy, thank you. And then another really cringe, I'm happy when it happened on the way in. We're all sat on the train and he was sitting on our lap playing and my partner and I were doing a crossword. And I was like, I'm sick to death of us. Is anyone watching this? Anyone take a photo? This is so wholesome. Not a phone in sight. Mummy and Daddy making memories with the baby and the crossword. Yeah, it's just, it's the normal things.

1:08:43It's the real mundane, normal, sitting down at the table eating together. All the boring, normal stuff you do. Easter has been made like a million times better. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Completely agree. Thank you so much, Maddie. I blacked out. I don't know what I said.

1:09:36We'll be right back. and online. Valid through 916, while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for more details.

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