Carrie Hope Fletcher & Joel Montague: how to perform when you're sleep deprived (part 2)

0:28We've already given you part one of this chat. Yeah, we were transferred into hospital and everything was sort of like a blur from that point onwards for me because I was... There was a lot of people in the room as well. Yeah, it was quite a small room, lots of people and I sort of felt like I was very much handing over, but like willingly handing over to the people who knew best in the room. And again, everyone was so great and Lee was amazing as well because she used to work at the hospital that we were at. Lee was like Danny Zuko. Yeah. She walked in there and she was like, yeah, I'm like...

0:54Everyone's like, Lee, oh my God, Lee, how are you? She's an absolute journey. Yeah. Everyone knew who she was. Everyone knew her. you know the doctor came in she had a whole full conversation with the doctor yeah I think it really helped because we've just felt like if Lee's here we're in such safe hands and she's not going to let anything happen that we don't want to happen that we're not sort of consenting to because she said no was it not a c-section was it a c-section she went no so originally they wanted to prep us for us to go up to the theatre Lee was the theatre not go up to the theatre go up to the theatre how stagey am I ready I was in the BC Wars last night and I had to present the best breakthrough product, I call it the best breakthrough actor.

1:35Right. Like us at the Brits. You're ready. Best breakthrough artist. You're ready. I love that. But yeah, I'm hoping to go up to the theatre. But they wanted to try Von Toos first. I never know if I'm saying that right. They wanted to try that first, but they were going to prep us for theatre before that. And Lee was like, absolutely not. So you're going to try that. And if that works, great. If it doesn't, then we'll start to prep for theatre because that's... She made it very clear. There's no point in stressing everybody out and essentially making moves towards the emergency thing as opposed to trying everything else first.

2:10And yeah, so that's what they did. And no one argued with her. No one argued with her. Everyone was like, okay, that's what we're doing. And, you know, time was at the essence at that point as well. So sometimes I think in those positions, when people are asking you what you want, it can be a bit like, I don't know, what would you do? So to actually have someone who knows you kind of going, this is what we're doing, is amazing. She was incredible, yeah. And we feel so lucky that we had her. And that was interesting, you know, seeing the instruments. I was like, how do you deal with this? Did you see the instruments?

2:41No, I didn't. Okay. I was told what was happening and what they needed to do. Yeah. And, you know, I very much okayed that. I was like holding on to... You were holding on to me more than I was holding on to him. What did you do? I was holding on to my gas and air. I mean, bless her. It was just, yeah. And that was maybe the most uncomfortable thing out of the whole experience was the Vontouse contraption. And then she came out. Yeah. And she looked like a smith. She did. With a club foot. She did. Oh, her little club foot. I forgot about her little foot. Club foot conad. That's what he kept calling her, club foot conad.

3:17She's like a smith. God bless her. But her little foot is because it was in the wiches. It's called a positional talapes. Yeah, and it was because she'd had her foot. and I could feel it for the last two months of pregnancy. She had her foot hooked underneath my ribs. Bless her. And so, yeah, her foot came out. She did look like a smurf. Yeah, full comb head. Because of the bone tooth. Well, Lee, our midwife, went, should we get her a hat? Should we get her a hat? Yeah. I've got this amazing picture. I'll have to send it to you. I look so zen and just so exhausted, but so happy. I've got Mabel in my arm.

3:48She honestly looks like she's been through a bar brawl. And then him asleep in the background like that. Exhausted. Yeah. Yeah, and I've not done anything. Yeah, and then the first person that saw us was Emma Willis. Yeah. I love this so much. Well, the whole story is ridiculous. Because Emma obviously has her show, is it Delivering Babies? And we had an app called Badger Notes, which has all of the hospital notes, like all of the tests that you go for. It's amazing. Everything comes up on this app. Yeah. And every now and again, I'd get a little notification to be like, Emma Willis is looking for home birthers on her show, Delivering Babies.

4:24Because when we came to watch you, we came to watch you and Jamie, Matt and Emma were there with us, weren't they? And it was her, like, last-ditch attempt. Emma was like, so... We were like, no, Emma. Because I think I was, like, maybe 38 weeks pregnant, 39 weeks pregnant. She sniffs out. She wants to be right there. Yeah, she's right. But it was, like, her last... She is. She's like, right. That was her last-ditch attempt. She was like... And she kept going, they won't get the money shot. They won't get the money shot. Everything she was trying to do. Everything. And she was like, and you can say yes, but then Paul can send, and then you've just got a lovely fitting of a homebuck.

4:56I can be there. But what was funny is when she walked in, she didn't know that Mabel had been born. Yeah. Well, hang on, we're missing a big chunk of the story. I'm sorry. But yeah, thank you very much. So, Homer, back into the hedge. So she'd been, this notification kept coming on the phone and I kept like, no, no. And Lee kept saying, you know, I know what the answer is, but they keep asking and no, it's not happening. And she's like, I thought you'd say that. Then Emma's last ditch attempt at Jamie telling me they wouldn't get the money shot. And I was like, I'm so sorry. And I was also just terrified of what sort of person I was going to be during Labour.

5:32I thought, you know, this monster would come out and I'd turn into this like velociraptor version of myself. And I was like, I don't want that on camera. Like, I don't even want to watch that back, let alone have the entire nation see it. And then, you know, went into Labour, be told that we're going to have to transfer into hospital. Ambulance arrives. open the door and I'm like clutching onto the door frame with what feels like Mabel like between my legs like halfway out cameraman at the door and he goes yeah we're filming for this new ambulance emergency services program so not even Emma's program no was it Lee that went no you're not well would you would you like to be filmed for this thing I was clutching onto the door frame and I just went why is everyone trying to film my fanny

6:20and Lee was like I think that's a strong no I think that's a no yeah

6:27but then had to be really nice to everyone because I'd never been in an ambulance before and I was like oh my god oh my god literally take a picture I've never been in an ambulance before so excited thrilled so from that point yeah but you then saw Emma so Emma came in but Emma didn't know that Mabel had been bored Lee came and said Emma's upstairs filming for the programme no cameras but she just wants to come and say hello or shall I tell her that you're here and I was like Yeah, absolutely. She thought I'd just come in for routine tests or, you know, something, anything other than having a baby.

6:57So she walked in and saw me and she went, Oh my God! And just saw Mabel in her little... Yeah, she was like, oh! And then she started getting emotional, then Carrie started getting emotional, and I was just thinking, oh my God, this is a lot. Yes, Emma was the first person to hold Mabel, aside from us and the midwife. I love that. Mad. I imagine a tiny bit of Emma would have felt guilty knowing that she'd taken that from us. From you and Tom. But at the same time, she wouldn't love to. Yeah, she was beside herself. I think she gave it maybe half a second's thought. Whenever I came in and saw Mayweather, I thought my first thought was, Tom and G aren't here before.

7:29Thank you. Thank you, really. They took off. G will hate me, never mind. Oh, well.

7:40And now she's nearly 21 months. I know. That's crazy, guys. Time has just disappeared. Did the beginning of it all, early days, newborn, trying to juggle thinking about calamity did all of that surprise you to the reality of that situation I think calamity was just so far off and I had my tour before that as well I had my own tour before that it was all so far off I just wasn't thinking about it at all I was like when I have to think about it I will think about it but right now this is what's important and I was so we were just I was so blissfully just thrilled that she was here and that we got to sort of experience this whole newborn phase I only have three days off though.

8:19Yeah, he had three days paternity leave, which was, that was really hard. So at the time, because I doubled up because I was doing Hamilton in the evening, but I was doing just for one day at the Old Vic. And you started just for one day by the time she was born. I started just for one day and it was only for three months. That's why I only got, I mean, in fairness to the Old Vic and JWP, they were going to give me a week off in total. Because, forgive me if I'm wrong, the rules are you need to be employed by your current employer for 26 weeks in order to be eligible for the two weeks paternity leave.

8:47So had you just been a parent? Hamilton. So, yeah. So, in fairness to Jamie Wilson and the Old Vic, they were like, listen, can we, it's a week, okay? And I was like, I obviously cleared it with Karen. And they sent us loads of food as well. Yeah, they were really lovely. They sent us like, you know, the frozen cook thing. Yeah, the Old Vic sent us stuff, J.D.O.P. sent us stuff, Cameron sent us stuff. Yeah. Everyone was incredible. They were just so lovely. And, yeah, so then I, Mabel was born, I went off in the morning, I rang, didn't I? I ran the manager, so lovely, James Hamid, who's the voice of Pennington.

9:16he went on that night for Harvey I couldn't think of the role and then we had three days off and then I came back and then I had another three days off why did you only do three days were you just like yeah this is hard I'm going in the Olivier's were coming to watch so they were like can you come back they needed a full cast to be in so that they can be represented as best as possible maybe I should try and do this week and then and then that's what I did I did the week and then I took three more days off basically but it was listen it was it was so difficult for Carrie because she was pretty much and we were fine it was just Mabel but in hindsight in hindsight you can go we were fine it was fine look we're fine but actually when you're in it those first 72 hours were horrendous I really think we forget how hard how fragile you are how raw everything feels and if you're breastfeeding again what do we do you don't do anything unless you're able to pump and when you're exhausted how much milk can you actually get out because you're so tired it's a lot it's a lot on you guys and that was for me, that's difficult.

10:18And those first 72 hours she did not sleep. And they did warn us. They say if a baby's born via Von Tusson, like forceps, they might have a bit of a headache. And if they're crying for seemingly no reason, they're fed, they've been changed, they're warm, if you've done everything, they probably have a bit of a headache from the way that they've been born. So we think that probably accounts for why she was so distressed in those first 72 hours. But we were taking it in two hour shifts. Really? I remember my first show back and I was like oh my god I've got to sing Pinball Wizard and I don't know how this is going to happen oh my gosh you're going back into one day and not just for one day rather than doing Hamilton yeah that's intense really intense it was a lot I was like I don't know how this is going to sound yeah you did it though well I did a version don't really get I don't know I'll ask the rest of the cast I was like was it or was it because I don't know some of them were like like behind me what's he doing screaming he's like a velociraptor but the i the one thing i would say is as actors in general or in musical theater your voice yeah the sleep deprivation when you don't get enough sleep it affects your voice see this is where i think you know doing a play is so different you don't worry so much about the quality of that sound you can kind of get through but actually when it's musical theatre and this is so protected to kind of go in and be like especially when you're singing money notes because when you're just speaking as long as the audience hears what you're saying it doesn't matter reading how it sounds it can all be a choice it's my choice to be a bit husky tonight it's fine, it's a choice my character is very emotional and you're like walking forward going, oh God, what's going to come about?

12:09These notes are high. Yeah. And I was like, okay, let's just scream. That's like what would happen. I mean, but that's like anything. I mean, it's just the sleep deprivation was something that I... Nothing can prepare you for it. People can tell you that you're going to be tired and people can tell you that you're going to be really, really tired. But until you've experienced that kind of tiredness, you just, you just don't know. I had some lovely people in just one day like Danielle Stairs and she just had her baby boy in the October. So she was, I mean, she was great. Her and Stephen have popped around a couple of times.

12:43They're lovely. And I think it's good when you work in theatre and you have mums and dads who get it. I think when it's difficult looking back when I was younger, especially like on the Billy Elliot days where there was a lot of dads in that cast when I was 21, you really underestimate. Yeah. and then you what those people are doing when you go through it you're like wow yeah yeah I get it absolutely completely get it um was it weird or how did it feel Carrie having Joel going out and doing it like in the month before you were back because you've not really had a break you're always constantly doing you know was it weird having Joel going out and doing the thing and you living this whole new life I was ready to give everything up really I was ready to never go back to acting again and I still have that in me.

13:32Every now and again I go, I think waitress is my last thing. I'll say no. I think the next thing is my last thing. I think the next thing is my last thing. See, I'm just worried no one employ me, but Carrie's just like no. I was ready to just, yeah. There it is. Great, thank you. Yeah, there was no part of me that was jealous at all. Really? I found it hard to... What about the adult interaction and the company and that aspect? I've never liked adult interaction. I've never liked human interaction, G. I don't like people. I don't like people. There were times where you, because you felt lonely.

14:01Yeah, I did. You did feel lonely. Yeah, there were times when I, it wasn't even adult interaction. It was just sort of having someone near just in case. Not anything went wrong, but just, you know, just to have someone there. So you just go, can you just take, what's like? Also, what you have to remember is as much as theatre is social, you're leaving your house, you walk and you do warm up, you do your show, you come home. It's not like you're going out after. Yeah. and end up in freedom until three o 'clock. But that time on stage is so like... Oh, I mean, not for me. Oh, really? Do you have to sit there for the first half?

14:35Oh, no, not for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, different. I remember saying to Luke... I mean, just like looking at someone for two hours. I remember looking at Luke, our director, going, I've not done anything. And then he got really... I remember being really nervous. He's like, Joel, I was like, you're going to ask me to move the table, aren't you? And he's like, can you? I was like, yeah, that's absolutely fine. But I was like, I've not done... The whole first half. I was like, Luke, I was like, Please, just give me something to do. Don't do anything, anything. I'll move ten tables, I don't care. Oh, my God.

15:01I was just like... I was going to say, I'm the worst. Because if you don't give me... Do you have a resting bitch face in that, then? No, it's not even that. I'm naughty. He'll create things for him to do. I'm naughty. If you give him nothing to do, he'll make things for him to do. And also, when you're with people like Julie Atherton, you can't, like, it's not... Don't put us next to each other in a seat. It's like putting the two naughty kids in class sat next to each other. That's the worst thing. because then we'll start poking each other and trying to pinch each other's legs and oh no yeah so we got that but I must admit like there was not really a sociable aspect apart from the warm up yeah because then you're doing the show yeah and you know you come back and it's very much like baby life yeah work life yeah and I think if there was any sort of loneliness from me it was just to talk about what was going on and to have someone tell me that it was all going to be okay or just to dissect every moment of every day because it's all so new and it's all so raw.

16:01For someone that doesn't like adult time, you love to talk. I do love to talk. I really love to talk. Not in a negative way, but you love to talk and analyse. I guess we all do in some ways. The end of the last time we were on, when I said, I'm happy when, so we finished this with three sentences, you said, I'm happy when I'm talking. I love talking. I do love talking. I love chatting. I actually think that's why me and her are connected, because we love, I love to chat. I feel like we started a conversation three years ago and it's not stopped since. I mean, what is quite weird is sometimes, I don't know if you and Tom find this, but when you're with each other all the time, I get nervous that if we're not talking, I'm like, I've got nothing to talk about.

16:44Do you? Yeah, I really do. Because I think early on we were very, very chatty, but that's because we were having our time separately. You've got things to talk about. Right. Right. Right. So that's quite, I had to deal with that mentally a little bit of going, actually, we can just be. Yeah. And it's fine. Just exist, yeah. Well, and also in your relationship now, you're in such a different place to where you were three years ago. Yeah. Like, and the fact that it's three years ago. Yeah. Like, so much has happened. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't really mess around, did we? No. No. We're like, let's just do all this, shall we?

17:16Yeah. But do you feel like it was just a case of, look, we've found the one now, let's not muck around? yeah yeah completely yeah and i think we we had a conversation quite early on when we were like if we were gonna wait to get engaged get married have kids whatever are we doing that for us are we doing that to be sort of socially palatable to other people just so that people don't go oh they moved fast like do we actually care like it's not going to go wrong yeah they're like it won't go wrong okay like do you know what i mean like we we know we knew that this wasn't going to I'm not saying that's like, that's what everyone thinks.

17:52I'm like, yeah, but we just kind of, we're just not the sort of people, if I know that there's something wrong, let's talk about it and fix the problem. If you don't want to fix the problem, then evidently maybe you're not with the right person. But if there's something not right, then let's fix it together. And if you don't want to fix it together, then maybe that's just not the right connection for you. And that's fine.

18:21so how as a couple have you dealt with the highs and lows that come with parenthood i like got big sumo suits and we just like run at each other i love that i think that's yeah yeah do you put the uh inflatable water yeah the birth and fall goes back up yeah yeah mabel referees yeah you okay yeah you okay you okay mama you okay mama dana go we just talk about oh listen we're like any couple we have arguments yeah we get over the arguments it's just about communication we've always been communication is like the thing over everything yeah and Carrie gets annoyed at me though because I like I have half a story already said in my head he'll have half the conversation in his head and then we'll start halfway through and I'm like you need to catch me up she's like you need to start from the beginning yeah and I'm like why are you not on my way like this is really frustrating.

19:14Was it yesterday? Was it yesterday or today? When you went, oh, Paula. Her name was Paula. I was like, you're going to need to tell me who you're talking about. Like, I'm like, who's Paula? It wasn't Paula. I can't remember now, but I know who you're on about. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I had no idea. I was like, whose name is Paula? I'm like, fill me in. Hello? Come on, let's read the mind. Jump in, jump in. Jump in here, tell me. So has working together on Elf made things as parents easier or harder? I think it's made things easier. It has made things easier. Well, first of all, for you, you're in the West End, so you're back at home.

19:48Yes. So that must be a massive difference. Yeah, going back home every day, sleeping in our own bed, being there when Mabel wakes up. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes being the one to put her down for naps and stuff. Yeah, it's been easier, for sure. It's so much easier. But also, it's the fact that we get to spend all day with her. Like, you know, theatre has its unsociable hours when it comes to rehearsing and tech time where you're doing 12 hour days or you're doubling up and you're doing one job during the day and rehearsing for one during the day and performing one in the evening. You have the unsociable hours.

20:20Also, we should say, and you'll know this, the press as well. Sometimes you have a lot of press and interviews and things before your show. So it's not just the eight shows a week. It's basically like two more double show days because you're in, talking about the show or whatever. But when you actually get into the run of it and you're just doing shows, we get to spend the entire day with Mabel and we miss out on bath and bedtime but that's the only part of the day that we miss out on. So we're very lucky in that respect. And she adores Lois. Lois has been the best. They're thick as thieves. Yeah, literally.

20:50Lois is like her little best mate. I should say Mabel's her little best mate. The other way around. Lois is the little best mate. I think Lois would take that. Lois loved it. It was great. So has parenthood been what you thought it would be so far? Yes and more. Yeah. the only thing I've the only thing I've hated and I can be rid of is the sleep deprivation yeah everything else is which is still hitting you two as well it's not like maybe we'll just start sleeping so I am the Grinch in the morning and I turn into Buddy the Elf that's by the evening yeah it's like it's quite a transformation yeah yeah yeah and then all of a sudden it's like you're on stars in your eyes tonight Matthew I will be tonight Matthew thank you yeah that's what happens is there a bit of dry ice before you walk out on stage is that yeah all the time yeah Again, Mabel with a dry ice machine.

21:38Just a bit of a breeze. When he walks down. I'm going to walk through the door. Yeah, I've never been great in mornings in general. But now I guess that you're back in the same house, at least you can kind of go, I'll take this one, you take this one. You can divvy it up a little bit. Yeah, and actually, funnily enough, which is the way to say, I think Carrie thought the double show days she'd take, but I prefer it because it wakes me up so my voice is ready. Yeah, yeah. And some, like, last night, you were just like, do you mind taking this one? I was like, yeah, not a problem, I'll take this one.

22:09And we just do it. Yeah, we figure out a little routine. Yeah. But yeah, there's so much about parenthood that you can know in theory, but then when you're actually doing it in practice, it's, like, no one can really prepare you for it because unless you're doing it, you just don't know. But she is a mama's girl. Like, massively a mama's girl. So that's also really hard on both of us because Carrie doesn't get a break. Yeah. But then also, like... He doesn't get the cuddles. I don't get the cuddles. So I'm like, so you know when you're like, you know those nine months? Whereas on my end, I looked after you.

22:43Okay. Thank you. But when Carrie was away, was she all over you? Not really. Really? She was sometimes, but not, yeah, I just don't, maybe I don't give a nice essence, I don't know. Stop it. I don't know. I don't know, maybe I'd give her the Grinch. That's why I mean she's like, I'm not touching you. I also think, though, it kind of swings. so there'll be times where that's what I keep saying at some point she's going to be down to the thread she doesn't love me but yeah you do find it hard because I think and Carrie would find it the same I think if you've been the person that sort of was with them for nine or ten months and then they sort of just didn't really give you the affection let's say that you thought you would maybe get that is quite mentally difficult because sometimes you're like oh I just want and sometimes she does but it's like it's really hard for Carrie because she is literally, where's mama, where's mama, where's mama?

23:36So then if mama goes for a wee, she's like, outside the door. She follows me. I actually leave the door open now. Her shadow. Yeah. Which is also so beautiful as well. It is very sweet. Because she is, like, mum's her best friend. I can remember coming back from a really long day of work. And Tom, I think Tom was away, so your mum and dad had had the kids. And it was actually when we were doing some house renovations, so all the kids were sleeping in one room. so I came back annoyingly at 7 which for any parent that's returning home don't come back at 7 like just miss bedtime just don't come back during bedtime anyway I came in expecting the kids to be really happy to see me I said goodbye to your mum and dad went upstairs all three kids started instantly crying we want nanny instantly so I started crying going I want nanny

24:28but it is that horrible thing when you kind of, you think you're going to be greeted with love. You think we're going to return a hero and be like, here I am, kids. Yeah, whatever. Where's the other one? Yeah, Mabel's learnt the word no now. It's her favourite word. And she does love her grandparents, but it's either Carrie's mum or my dad. Like that's... Yeah, Phil or Deb. Yeah. And I do feel sorry for my mum and Bob sometimes. Yeah, because it is just like, oh, but But, you know, she really... I mean, not like she doesn't throw either of them attention. She does. But she's very much nanny. She will make a beeline for...

25:04How is it seeing your parents as... I mean, I know you've seen your mum and dad as grandparents, but grandparents to your child. Well, I think because I was so pleased that we were having a girl. Yeah. Because it was just, you know, something different. And even for you and Tom as well. You were talking about, yes! I'm going to the shops. I can do different things. She was like, I can do everything now. the first granddaughter was a really big deal that's going to be the best thing though isn't it for you and G to be like go and do some girly stuff with Mabel you've never been able to do that I guess with Georgina's yeah with some Marais but it's like I think it's for you and your especially your dad yeah well because Mabel's from what I've been told Mabel's very much like I was when I was a kid so seeing mum and dad says no yeah says no and is very demanding and a bit of a madam.

25:57It's me all over. No. I'm like, oh, this is your mum. I'm like, I'm in it, isn't it? But mum and dad keep saying it's like, whenever they look after her, it's like having me all over again, which I think is, it's very sweet. It's very sweet sort of seeing them relive like my childhood. And what about you, Joel? Being the only child and now having to share. Mum was us first. First grandchild. Also, you're the only child. So now having another child, it's like she's kind of elbowing you out. I mean, it's funny, really, because I think I've always had a very weird upbringing because of my mum's dance in school.

26:33Yeah. So I've never really felt like an only child. Really? Yeah, always busy. Because I've always been with a lot of kids my age all the time. Yeah. But the cutest thing was my auntie and my mum bought her tap shoes and ballet shoes. So my mum comes around, she puts her tap shoes on. Oh, shit. She loves putting her tap shoes on. Walks up and down the hall in her little tap shoes. and honestly even from a dance I don't care if Mabel doesn't dance or whatever but it's just that I think seeing my mum as a dance teacher with that I mean my mum in fairness she doesn't push it on her but I think like buying her the tap she's in she likes the sound and it's just it's just really nice and my dad because my dad's never had sort of any girl really in his life so yeah I mean your dad's so sweet with her Phil bless him he's very cute loves it yeah it's just great it's great to see your grandparents and it's just lovely.

27:23It's always to see you and Tom with her. Yeah. And what she experiences from different people. You know, the energy she experiences with different people. It's really, really lovely. Yeah. Even with all our friends as well, it's been amazing sort of. Yeah, Scott. Because we've got a very like close-knit group of friends. Uncle Beanbag. And seeing them all interact with her is so sweet. Because when she was a baby, she lied on Scott and Scott was like, oh my God, I'm like a big beanbag. I don't think she thinks I'm a human. She just thinks I'm a beanbag. So then now he's Uncle Beanbag. He's Uncle Beanbag.

27:50That's it. and Matt came around Matt McDonald came around and he's yeah they're just they're great all of our friends have been great with her and yeah it's lovely it's amazing taking her into theatres as well yeah because I you know I spent so much time in theatres as a kid so sort of having her in theatres experiencing that and experiencing you know the sets and the costumes and the people Calamity's took her in a couple of times I took her to Gatsby and Hamilton a couple of times we took her to Elf yeah she loves it so it's amazing sort of because I really cherish all those memories that I have of being in theatres as a kid because it's like taking what is already a really magical place, even when you're an adult, and making it even more magical because you're a child and it's just so sort of, you know, big and outlandish.

28:30And so, yeah, having mobile in theatre is always so exciting. It's very textured. They're getting better in theatre as well, I think. I think they're understanding that, you know, parents have to. If you want people who've got kids to work in theatre, then you have to bend the rules a little bit and let them bring their kids on the occasion when they can. but it's really a little bit to see. We are sitting in front of a Christmas tree. We are. You are in Elf the Musical. What are you looking forward to? Not only this Christmas but in terms of like Christmases to come with Mabel. I mean even just this year because last year she was what?

29:05Eight months? Nine months? Yeah. So she was, you know, she was on starting solids and you know, she had a few little bits and pieces. So I'm excited about Christmas dinner, G. I'm on it already. Excited about Christmas dinner. the roast potatoes are outrageous he was talking about them the other day oh god they're the best thing ever I'm like these roast potatoes are phenomenal but her experience in Christmas dinner now is going to be an experience she loves food she loves food she is the best eater so you put anything in front of her broccoli is her thing at the moment we've got the only kid who adores broccoli and she loves bananas although I hate bananas so does Tom him trying to mash a banana is the funniest thing in the world

29:51but christmas presents as well like she's really like she's got favorite things now yeah she loves frozen she loves stitch she loves moana mickey oh my god so now giving her christmas presents she's really going to register what they are and she's going to get excited and then we're going to get excited and and also just starting sort of like family traditions as well yeah like I know they grow over time and things that you don't expect to be traditions suddenly become traditions. So I can't wait to discover what they are. I think that maybe she wants to do that we've not thought of. Yeah. You know what I mean?

30:21Things that she might see other families or other kids do that we've not thought of. Yeah, yeah. I find that really interesting. I love thinking about Christmas over the years, though, and how... I think seeing the kids grow up each year is really what makes you think about time sort of going and how it's moving. Yeah, it's amazing. I'm so excited. Everyone is here this year. It's a full house. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no in-laws turn. It's everyone here. Is Buzz the eldest of all the cousins? Yeah. Yeah. Because we were just thinking that, because Buzz is, what, nine years? Nine years older than Mabel?

30:53No, he's ten years older than Mabel. Yeah. He was born 2014, right? Yeah. And she was 20, 24, so he's ten years older than Mabel. He's going to be 20 when she's Buzz's age. But I said that in Florida, I think, to Buzz, and Buzz was like, oh, wow, I can't believe. Yeah. I love the fact that when we next go back to Disney, you know how Buddy is always like, wants to go with Carrie? every ride he's like carry carry carry you're going to get ditched I know it'll be Mabel and you two are going to be like no Mabel needs to come with us she's going to be like ah ah ah yeah you know we we have been scared that when we went that time that we've scared Mabel remember when we went on Frozen we were like forgot about that drop oh yeah yeah yeah we were like oh my god she's eight months well we ruined we ruined rides for Buzz by going on Pirates of the Caribbean far too soon I remember taking him on Haunted Mansion and he didn't even cry well he did cry but it was just tears rolling down his cheeks whilst he shook.

31:43I think it was me and you with him between us and we were like, oh God, what have we done? What have we done? But then you say that and then there's Buddy that's just like... Buddy and Max, can we go on Cosmic Rewind twice in a row? Come on! Can we do it with no safety bar? That's Buddy and Max. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I mean, it's just so much fun things to hear. Yeah, so many things. It's amazing. If you could write a letter on parenthood, on being a mum, being a dad, who would it be to and what would you say? Oh my God. I guess it'd be to Mabel actually. And I'd just write sleep. Please sleep.

32:20Nice. You'll have so many things but the most important thing is sleep. Okay. So maybe I'll never get angry at her for being a teenager and I'll be like no because when she has kids. Yeah, yeah. She needs to sleep right now. She needs to sleep right now. I think I'd write my letter to parents in the industry because I think there's almost sort of like a fear, especially in younger performers because they're like, will I get to have, because I want a career, but I also really want a family one day. And with the way that the industry used to be, it just didn't facilitate having a family. Like it was either you give 100 % to your job or you don't do the job.

33:01So I think now that we're sort of figuring out our way through it, and look, we're both in a very sort of privileged position because you know i've sort of both of us have established our our names in theater now which means that when it comes to doing jobs producers are a little bit more lenient on you know facilitating what you want especially if you're playing the lead in a show because if they want you they have to facilitate it yeah that's kind of the end of the conversation and also we're not talking about diva-ish things within this no it's yeah just i am you're not saying i want a red dressing room and a few puppies running around just can i bring my kid and every now and again if it's, you know, childcare's falling through.

33:38Can someone carry me to my dressing room? You know what I mean? Can you imagine? So, yeah, I think I'd write a letter to sort of people who want to become parents who also want a career. And I don't entirely know what I would say, but just that it is possible and that you can have both dreams. It just, it takes a lot of manoeuvring and a lot of sort of figuring things out and a lot of conversation, but it is doable. Yeah. I think for those people as well, seeing people like you doing it does give hope. Like it kind of, it does, it means that you don't have to. I've heard Amber said that recently, Amber Davis.

34:14Yeah. She, she messaged me a really sweet message actually. She's really supportive, Amber. Yeah, she's incredible. The fact that you're both working and showing people that it can be done. And I'd say the same, that's like for you and Tom. You know, just to see that you can both have careers and both be successful, but you're still making sure that the kids are the priority. Yeah. It can be done. evidently there are some privileges that we have in certain statuses and whatever and i get that but but but it's also the fact that there are so many parents in theater that you don't hear about who are still doing yes and that's who we had to rely on like we've got so many friends who are parents in theater that we had to turn to and be like how do you do this like how are you getting everything done also nowadays a household actually has to have two wages yeah like you know we get years ago, maybe in the 80s, it was fine when, you know, the traditional man went off to work and a woman stayed at home.

35:07But like now, you can't really actually afford that anymore. It's very difficult. And I even said to Carrie, how single parents have done it, I do not know. It's unbelievable how, because I found it hard, even when I felt like a little bit of a single parent when Carrie was on tour. But I'm like, I don't know how people can do this. It's unbelievable. Yeah. I'm taking my heart after them, I really do. How important that support network is. Yeah, having a village. Absolutely. Because I do think we're so, we kind of feel like we have to be able to do everything. And I think it's so important to highlight the fact that we have a support team.

35:45Do you know what I mean? Because we don't live how we used to. We don't live in the same village with our mums, our dads, our siblings. Everyone is apart. So you do have to rely on people. You have to create that network. Absolutely. I end the podcast with you completing three sentences. The first one is being a mum means being a dad means. Go. Oh, God. I should have been more prepared for this. You have done it before. This isn't brand new. I know. I'm so sorry. This is brand new for me. What did I say before? Out of interest. I wrote it down. I've not got my pad. I was given no notes for this interview.

36:21Can you believe it? Alex, you failed me. Being a dad means being kind, sincere, supportive and understanding. Oh, well done. That's a really good one. Beautiful. Oh, no. Is that what it means? Oh, no. Oh, no. It was just... Being a mum means everything in every sense because you feel like you have to be everything to everyone all of the time. Yeah. But also that has to include yourself. And what's that amazing saying, which is thrown around so much, but it is so true, is that you can't pour from an empty cup. Yeah. And every now and again, that means having to step away and doing something for yourself or just just having a bath or just taking 10 minutes just to sort of recalibrate before you can go back in and be a hundred percent mum so yeah and and it means everything in the sense of you know how incredible it all is and how well consuming it is especially in those first few months absolutely my god those first few months oh my god oh my god this first few months rocking rocking again next sentence since having a child I have never slept okay oh no since having a child I have completely shifted my perspective because you have to yeah you have to and it naturally happens because you know they come before everything not only because they have to but because you want them to come before everything because they're just these little innocent bundles of joy and happiness and uh sleep deprivation uh so yeah my perspective has completely shifted and i think i was like i said before i was already on the way there the whole sort of like living to work working to live type thing but if anything's going to be a catalyst to that it's having a kid and you go oh my god nothing else matters aside from them.

38:20Does your experience make you look back at like early days of our kids, like of Buzz and Buddy and kind of go, whoa, they were going through that. It was when Mabel was, I can't remember how old, but you were like, I was pregnant now. I was like, oh my God, how? By this point, how? We had this conversation recently. I would have been like, ready to pop. Yeah, we're seven months pregnant. We had this conversation about number two. Absolutely not. About when we were number two and I went, I was like, I don't think I'm ready yet. I was like, I need to like... But it's funny because once you've had one, it's sort of like...

38:59Right, so it's going on, rocketing. But it's like to other people, it's like one to pop can't stop. It's like Pringles. They're like, when's the next one? I'm like, give me a sec. Give me a second. Like my organs still aren't in the right place. They're still... Yeah, but you say that, but I'm the one that's saying, give me a sec. You're like, so when's... I'm like, we need to chill. It's because I like to plan ahead. So I keep asking, not keep asking the question, but I have asked the question, like, when will... Because we'd like another one, so when's that going to happen? It's not me going, now.

39:28I was sort of... We were sort of aiming... Well, sort of maybe, like, when... Maybe we'll start to go to school. Yeah, maybe we'll sort of go to school, maybe. A little bit of a gap. Also, it just depends. It just depends on what happens. We never know what happens. I feel like we've just been let into it. This conversation might continue after. In the car. Yeah. On the way. Remember when you said that? Also, thank you for the gardeners there. Did you mean that? Because school's a very long time away. I can remember getting to nine months. I'm in high school. I can remember Buzz being nine months and suddenly going, whoa, like all those people that you know who have an 18-month gap between their siblings, and there are many.

40:03Yeah. Well, just shook me up a little bit, it did. Wow. And finally, the final sentence is, I'm happy when? I'm happy when I'm in Disney. Yeah. Oh, fantastic. With my family, I should say. Okay, include them if you want. Yeah. You know, if you have to. I mean, we say that. He actually met when he was riding the people mover on his own with an ice cream, going past the castle. Yeah, man. I'm actually just really happy that my life is at a point where I could have never imagined that it would be this. Really? Yeah. Well, I remember when I met your housemates the first time, they said that Joel is a dad without kids.

40:48Like you give dad energy. What do you want to say? You do though. You do give dad energy. In what way do we mean this coming? You do though. And I totally understood what they meant. Like you were destined to be a dad. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. But then I think, I also think that's from years of teaching kids. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think there has to be some sort of paternal and maternal quality that you have as a mentor in some ways, isn't there? Well, you have to like kids for a start to be able to teach them. Right, exactly. And there's a lot of people that don't like kids that teach them, you can tell.

41:27Yeah, so I do understand when they said that about me, really. But yeah, I'm happy because of... I'm happy when I never thought that my life would be what it is now. Carrie, I'm happy when... I'm happy when I... I'm happy when I'm watching Mabel singing that was a really good one she's just like really got into Frozen as all kids do every kid I think has a Frozen phase and yeah she's just started singing Let It Go and she watches so intently that she's started to copy Elsa's movements when Elsa's casting spells and stuff we do note her when you lifted your arm at that point And if you could just extend.

42:12Also slightly under that note. So if you just get on top of that vowel a bit more, that would be great. Yeah. But it is really sweet. It's really sweet. And not even from, you know, the fact that we're performers. It's just, you know, all kids sort of find their voices at some point and suddenly start singing and, you know, mimicking and dancing and whatnot. And it's just like, you can just see how, like, joyous she is and how expressive she is. It's just gorgeous. I love that. guys thank you so much this has been an absolute delight and it is always that thing I think when you've got guests on who you actually know yeah and but you don't get that time ever to just sit down and sort of debrief yeah I mean so it's just been lovely to do that I kind of wish Tom was here yeah so that he could have joined in we should do it all together maybe not necessarily on camera but we should do that yeah yeah Alex is like no on camera on camera on camera thank you thank you you're welcome Elf over Christmas I cannot wait to see you yay Thank you so much.

43:12We love everyone. We love. That was so much fun. We gave you the theatrical vibe, that's why. We demand applause no matter what we do.