Carrie Hope Fletcher & Joel Montague on stepping into their greatest roles yet (part 1)

0:28Should we record a podcast? the musical in the West End at the moment. I also know them quite well because they're my brother and my sister-in-law. They're West End legends. The mum and dad to little Mabel. It's Joel Montague and Carrie Hope Fletcher. Hi. I mean, that was just beautiful. That was a lovely joke. Also, we've been sat chatting for about 20 minutes and then, shall we actually record? Shall we actually record? Yeah. Right. How are you both? Yeah, good. All fine, yeah. You know, like normal over Christmas, tired, exhausted, but good. At least this year, you're in a Christmas musical.

1:05So it's different vibes, right? You're tired, but you're not slogging it at King George. We're festively tired. Festively tired. Festively tired. That's a good term. Yeah. Festively tired. Yes. Yeah. But also, you've been celebrating Christmas since October? October 27th. Yeah. Harry's furious about that. Well, I love Halloween. You know what I'm like? So being dressed as an elf on Halloween, I did feel like the grouchiest elf to ever exist. but no once we got past that it's fine it's so true actually because I think of your family as really loving Christmas and I do love Christmas you do love Christmas but you and your mum yeah we're October babies you're spooky witches we are yeah yeah not bitches not bitches witches sometimes bitches the house I don't know how much coffee I've had the house isn't even decorated for Christmas yet what but it was for Halloween wait what did you say the house isn't decorated for Christmas not yet no but it was for Halloween we've not had time in fact we genuinely have I was in the desert with you G that's why that's so true I should also point out that we are recording this in November so if anyone's like listening to this in December and going like oh this is Christmas Eve what are you doing I've got a child I've got a child can you imagine how dare you not give me a child as you deserve but we have been in the desert we have we went to to the Sahara for Copperfield you were a captain I was you were amazing thanks mate thank you so very much how does it feel now you're back I feel like I've not quite processed it yeah like Marco sent through that video last night and I like just showing it to him like I watched it and I was like oh lovely and then I showed it to you and then just burst into tears because it I yeah I just because I jumped straight back into Elf when I got home I feel like I was very much just thinking it was like before I even left I hadn't really thought much about being a team captain I was just like got to get the right kit got to make sure that I'm fit enough to do this and then I got out there and was like oh I've not thought this through I need to quickly come up with some like really uh you you know, empowering things to say.

2:56So all of a sudden I had a mic in my hand in front of 120 people. I was like, oh, oh no, I've not thought this through. So yeah, it was kind of the same when I got back. I was like, just get back into Elf, just put the tights on, just get the Elf hat on, you know, just, you know, dance with a candy cane and everything's going to be fine. But as someone that isn't involved as much as you two are, it's incredible. Like looking at the footage and the pictures and what you guys do and what you set up, G, along with Chris, and it's unbelievable. But you have to be so proud. on every level and hearing about the stories of the people that were on the trek with you you know i i was it was emotional listening to it even just like the stories that carrie was telling me it's unbelievable i'm like it honestly it's so hard to come home and just park it yeah i mean it kind of it does filter through i always feel like i need a couple of days to kind of just sit and process well we kept saying when we were out there like how do we go home and explain what this was to people yeah because it's you know there's so many things to it it's the conversations that you're having with people the reason why you're all that why you're all there but then also the physical challenge of trekking over 100 kilometers in the desert like it sounds so simple when you say it but there were days when i was like that second day where we ended up trekking like 32 kilometers instead of the promised 26 javanna i know i'm so sorry but we all we all sat back and like how do we get up tomorrow and do another 20k like my feet feel like they're gonna fall off isn't it amazing though because i always feel like then the next day you wake up and your Your body's like, all right, yeah, okay then.

4:20Yeah, it's bizarre. It was really weird. I mean, obviously for someone that wasn't doing it, but it's like your brain tells you that you're doing it. Yeah, your brain just... The only thing that speaks to you is your body if you can't, but your brain is going, no, this is mine here. We're in this now. This is what we're doing. I just find it incredible. I have a thing every trek where I suddenly have a moment where I realise I hate trekking. I hate camping. Yeah. But that's not why you're there, though. This is what I mean. It's the why. Exactly. Everything in life is about the why. Yeah. And you become a family, don't you?

4:51Like, you can see, like, you see from the footage, you're like, oh, my God, you guys become a family. Yeah. And that's why it's so incredible having Marco there to really capture those bits. Special. Yeah. And he was with us on that really long day as well. So I feel like he really captured, like, everyone's emotions that day. Because we started off... It was a journey. It was a journey. Because we started off sort of like, you know, we did 26K yesterday, so we're all a little bit tired. And then you sort of get to lunch, and everyone gets that massive, like, spike in, you know, energy again. and then you see camp and you're like, oh, it's 20 minutes away.

5:21It ain't. No, no, no. You're still walking three and a half hours later going, it's no closer than it was when I thought it was 20 minutes away. And by the end, it's dark. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty insane. How many do you do? So you do like one big one every year? Three big ones. Three big ones every year. Two single days, yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's a lot. How was it being away from Mabel? Because obviously the big thing, like you tour, so, you know, and I think actually the realisation of even that, because the tour, with Clamity, you'd signed up to tour before Mabel had even arrived. Yes. And I think sometimes as parents, and I'm going to jump around here because Carrie had been a guest before.

5:57We'll go back and do bits anyway. But I think to have a set-up of what you think something is going to be like before you actually have that baby, so many actors do it, so many people do it, you think, oh, well, the baby's just going to be amazing. Just going to slot in, yeah. And it doesn't work like that at all. We had all the plans in place, the best Will in the world shout out to Lois yeah Lois Lois who's been on it she's just so many times and both sets of parents Bob and I but my mum and dad they've been amazing yeah people have really but yeah we had so many plans to you know she's going to come with me and it's going to it's going to be Mabel and Lois on the road with you yep absolutely well there were so many like we planned out all of the venues and it was like you know two weeks with me two weeks with Joel a week with me a week with Joel that did not happen she just didn't sleep yeah I mean she wasn't sleeping anyway we you know she just didn't sleep at all anyway, even at home in her own space.

6:51Yeah, but for context we should sort of talk about the certain roles that we were playing because mine could facilitate working on not a lot of sleep, whereas obviously Carrie was playing Calamity at the time, which If you're leading and you're driving You know, the minute the show starts it doesn't stop and it's exhausting I was lucky at the time that I was doing King George, which is one song. Look, it's a showstopper. It is. When I go and see Hamilton, I cannot wait for the King to come out. Absolutely. Every time, I'm like, thank you. Yes, thank you. And I'm ready to sing and do my bit. Exactly.

7:29You are waiting for everybody and then you get your karaoke and you're with your mind. Look, but you're the reason why people leave really happy. It's very true. Okay. But on that point, obviously it's a pretty tricky song to sing if you're not feeling it vocally. Yeah. However, you can, that and George Wilson. You can get through it. You can get through the show. Calamity Jane is like, she's high energy. It's very physical. She sings, the first 25 minutes of that show is, it goes from song to song to song to song to song. And there's no time off stage really. And if there is time off stage, you're quick changing.

8:03Yeah. And now it's role reversal. Because in Elf, I'm Buddy and Carrie's Jovi, where Buddy from the start is. The whole show is about Buddy and I very much. I appear in both acts twice. and in between that I'm drinking tea in my air conditioned dressing room I know I'm like oh it's beginners bye bye everyone stretching in the wing like every muscle possible just to be like I literally walk on 25 minutes in for my first entrance and everyone is sweating and I'm like oh what's wrong I've just come from my air con dressing room having had my fifth cup of tea what do you mean this show's hard like crying happy there are parts where you can incorporate the tiredness like Kevin and Gatsby you can incorporate that he is a broken man you know you can use that whereas Klamotty she's on it she's sharp she's witty she's happy and it's the same with Buddy Buddy's high on sugar high on sugar and he literally sings a song at the top of the show called Happy All The Time if you're tired you ain't so happy all the time happy all the time happy just like someone who's just stuck around all day of happiness happy for you all the time.

9:13That's exactly how I feel. I wouldn't think of that when I see you. Yeah, do. I see you. Like, please. I want you to do just one version. Just for you. I will. Just for tired fans everywhere. I'll record a version of the show for you. Yeah. Please. Yeah, I will. This is how I'm truly feeling. How you actually feel. What's behind the happy all the time. On a Saturday evening after eight shows. Before they sew you into that costume and don't let you leave. velvet costume. So realising, I guess, that what you thought would happen was not going to happen. Yeah. How was that to accept? I feel like we had to just roll with the punches because there wasn't really enough time to...

9:55Can I remind you of something that you said the first time you were here? Oh, God. The first you said, the first year is all going to be about forgiveness. Forgiveness. That's your word of the year. Yeah. You're going to realise that you're going to try things out. They're going to go wrong. Yeah. In the same way that if you drop a line on stage, it happens you acknowledge it move on you don't let that carry carry on with you and so i wonder if that stuck around as well it definitely did and i feel like i i very much had that in the back of my brain through the whole of that first year and through the whole of the clams jane tour and there also just isn't really time to to sort of you know think about what you wish could have been you're like well this is what's happening this is what we need to do we're just going to have to sort it out and go yeah and that's kind of all there is to it um and you know I was really upset that she wasn't able to come on the tour as much but that was selfishly just for me because I was missing her um for her the best thing for her was to be at home in her own space where she felt more comfortable and where she was sleeping better and for you as well like it's yeah it but the gift that comes with that which you won't have been expecting is the mum girl yeah to suddenly be hit with i've not got my baby with me that's one thing but suddenly i'm not being the mum that i thought i was going to be and you are being a fantastic mum you're showing her what it is to kind of do the work and go out and do it yeah you'll provide like all those things but we we knock ourselves down we berate ourselves for the other things that we're not we can't consistently do everything all the time right we also live in a society where it is kind of important to work Like it's kind of impossible on a lot of occasions to give your children a life that they want or let's say deserve or whatever you want to give your kid, which I imagine every parent want to give the world to their child.

11:45And in our position, we kind of have to work to do that. And the great thing about our job is that, you know, finding now because we're both in London and we're both doing the same show, we get to spend the entire day with her. I know, but when you're at the start of a 10 month tour, to suddenly go, fuck. That was very different. I've got 10 months of feeling like this. Like, is this going to ease? It was really tough. Yeah. There was occasions where I found it, selfishly I found it really tough. Because I was doubling up at times with Hamilton and Gatsby. You were rehearsing in the day, in the show at the night.

12:20And I was lucky in the sense because it wasn't a buddy role. So I wasn't in all the time, but it was still like, you know, also as a married couple, trying to give each other attention, as a married couple, it's kind of out the window because you're just so focused on it's the bottom of your priorities it's the crumbs it's the best day left you know I've got I've got to do this or whatever and I felt that point I felt bad because I felt like I was neglecting Carrie sometimes which is hard because you've built this relationship and this marriage and just you two and then all of a sudden you've got this gorgeous little human who actually takes pretty much all of your attention and takes precedent above everything else because she's relying on you to especially when the other person isn't there you know and that was really tough and we found it of course we found it yeah we found our groove I think sort of like midway through the tour we were like okay well this is what this is now we sort of know how to I think both of us are very much like we're not going to tour for longer than six months maybe but it's good to also have that you have to do it sometimes to realise that it doesn't work and then you can really stay firm within that kind of go no I can't do that it's not good for my marriage well that's what's happened with Waitress so I'm just doing the first 12-13 weeks that's a nice Yeah.

13:33She'll go by the sea. She'll go by the sea, yeah. I like a 12-week. Yeah. 12-week feels like I've done it, I've been in, I've got my teeth into it. I wish it was in your two positions, because they're like, you're locked under contract. I'm like, okay, arrest me. You know what I mean? But it is what you have to kind of, you know, Josh Andrews always says, the producer always says to me, oh, they're doing a Giovanna. I'm like, yes. Thank you very much. But also, I think there's some, in the world of theatre, I think there's some bonus for that. It gives variety to people, it gives opening for more jobs to people.

14:08Yeah, absolutely. And even talking about Gatsby, Gatsby was six months altogether with rehearsals and the run, and it had a wonderful cast of people. But I would say the age range and the standard of people that they got for Gatsby, they wouldn't maybe necessarily get if it was a year. So true. Because some people actually go, oh, do you know what? six months at the Coliseum over summer, lovely gig let's take that taking an entire year out of it's really difficult it's really hard for people to commit that long because they've got other gigs or other things on the cards that they might want to do just families and life I think that's a massive switch that I've definitely seen not even since Mabel since just before that I guess since Covid, since lockdown I was very much a what's the way around is it I was a living to work type person yeah instead of a working to live type person and now I'm definitely like if it doesn't fit in with us and like our vision of what our family life should be it's just going to be a strong no it's also I think when you're at drama school when you're starting out we are told to just say yes to everything and to grab everything that comes and that you need to be grateful for it absolutely so to suddenly turn around and go that's not it feels so wrong yeah it feels so wrong but you have to and I wonder if it's an age thing i think it's about getting to a certain point and kind of being like i can't give this industry everything right when it doesn't give me correct thing to know and i also think that you do jobs where you suddenly it's almost like with your parents when you're a kid you think your parents know everything and they're right all the time and then as you get older you start to sort of see the the cracks and you're making that up yeah you're yeah yeah that was completely and they didn't even have google like how they did it who knows exactly i feel it's the same with the industry like you when you're young you think that the way that you're being treated is the you know just how it is and you've just got to accept it and that's just what the industry is and then you sort of you start to sort of see the cracks and start to question it and you go oh maybe I don't want this for myself and that's not to say that the industry isn't amazing it is but obviously there are certain jobs that you go into and you're like oh this feels not the way it should be it's the it's the it's that tipping scale of when you're at drama school and you're going out how much of life gets in the way of your work because that's all you're focused on at drama i need to work and then bit by bit is how much does work get in the way of life yeah um and i think you know it's funny that you sort of said that actually because at drama school is that thing of like say yes to everything and to a certain degree the first two or three years of your career i'm like yeah because you need to earn your stripes i think that's you can't be going into rehearsal room i think straight out drama school and saying i need this you know right at any point i think you go into the rehearsal room everyone is equal and unbelievable yeah yeah yeah I'm like let's have a bit of reality of the situation and when you're working with actors who are extremely experienced who've been around the block and you know understand the etiquette yeah things do change and things have changed for the better but I also think sometimes you just have to be a little bit real with yourself and go actually maybe I'm asking for a bit too much I was thinking the rule of thumb is to look for the most experienced person in the room and if they're not complaining you've got to shut up yeah I think that's the rule of thumb yeah if there's someone in the room who's more experienced than me, they've had like a 40-year career and they're just getting on with it.

17:20I've just got to get on with it. And as soon as they turn around and go, now hang on a minute, I can then back them up. You know what I mean? You find out what, you know, what battles are worth fighting for. Yeah. And I think it is that thing of once a family comes in, it's all about compromise and how much you're willing to compromise. Because there will always be a compromise. It's just what you're willing to get. But there's also that inner fire from all of us as performers where you're like, oh my God, that job, I really want to do that job. There always is. You never lose that. We wouldn't be in this industry if someone asked you to go, would you like to audition for this or would you like to do this part?

17:51And one part of you goes, no. There's always a little bit of you that goes, oh, God, I'd have a really good time doing that. Are we all still at the point, though, where we think every job is our last job? Oh, God, yes. Joel, no! No, you definitely are that person. No, no, because... Oh, my God, this is my last acting job, thank you very much. He is definitely that person. It's more the fact of I don't know if my life isn't just on stage anymore. You want to be more creative. I really like to direct some choreographies. I just have every job kind of going, I don't think anyone will want me. What if no one gives me the opportunity again?

18:26I don't know. Joel? No, I am like that. It's okay to want other things, but are you in this job going, will I never get given another job again? As a performer, I'm always like, oh, well, that's it, me done. yeah okay so we're all on the same page we all feel like i was gonna say i was like my mind tries to change but what i'm saying is my mind tries to transfer yeah like i'm always going to work forever we get to the end of any of his contracts and he's like yeah i just think that that's i just don't think anyone wants me anymore i think that's just you know i've just run my course and i'm like shut up i'm like you've not stopped working in the last like 20 years what's wrong with you but that's also as wonderful as that is that's also the downfall because when you haven't stopped working, to then stop working, you're like, I don't know what to do.

19:12It's the panic, yeah. Because I also think some people have a really good level of teaching or they work at colleges or whatever, and I used to do that when I was younger because I had time to. But obviously when you have a family, something's got to give, and if your main job is to perform eight shows a week, then you can't teach in a day, you can't do that. So then when you stop doing the eight shows a week, you've then got to find the job that you, what do you then do if nothing is established? Like, there's loads of people that are in colleges or, you know, are agents on the side or do so many things.

19:45I'd love to know how many actors sign up to, like, masseuse courses. Yeah. That sort of thing. Like, do a little side hustle, photography. How many people just even just go on to college websites and just go, what can I do? One of my friends became a tree surgeon. Yeah. Yeah, he's a tree surgeon on the side of being a performer. Wow. Was that during COVID? I think so, yeah. Just needed something to fill the time, but went completely rogue. And that boost, that's a proper adrenaline boost, surely. And there was a lot of people I knew that, especially during COVID, kind of did more handyman stuff, and that's what they did.

20:17They were like, I make more money, I'm stable, I don't have to stress about auditions. You can set your own future as well. I also think you have to trust your team. I have a great agent, obviously, so do you two, good management agents, and you have to be able to sort of have a bit of a therapy session with them and go, am I okay? Like, am I okay in this industry? But that's the interesting thing as well, right? Because I think when you start out, you think your agent is like... Your boss. Yeah. Because actually, no, no, that's a partnership. You're working together. You should both be able to talk very freely with each other because that partnership is very, very important and integral.

20:54You have to be honest as well. I'm very much like with Sam, my agent, I'm like, don't sugarcoat things. I never want to read back my WhatsApp thread to my agent because it's me having like a mental breakdown every six months being like, what do I do? No one's ever going to want to work with me again. I'm never going to work again. She's just had two job offers. I'm like, you need to calm down. You need to calm down. Helen literally sends me emails of like job offers that have come in over the last like three months. She said no to. She's got no. You need to calm down. You need to really chill out.

21:27let's talk about early days of you two um early yeah how early are we talking oh my you take me right right okay joel go oh well early early so we you know you remember the first time we met yeah we met you don't remember joel no i don't know it was very rude insulting okay i know rude yeah but he's he's definitely got stories about me when he could be like oh yeah i can't wait yeah he's got that in the back pocket ready to just ready how far are you gonna go carrie Because I got this one. I asked for her signature and a picture and she said, no. You mentioned it. It's still like me. So we were performing at theatres that were next to each other on Shaftesbury Avenue.

22:05I was in Les Mis at what was the Queen's, now the Sondheim, and you were at the Apollo doing You're in Town. Super close. Really close, yeah. And my friend Nathan was in You're in Town and he got me tickets to see it for my birthday. And the night that I had gone to see it just so happened to be the night that Joel was on for the lead. Right. So you were first cover at the time? I was first cover to Matt Seedon Young, yeah. And it was his first time on as, like, just very strange coincidence. And I saw Nathan at Stage Door afterwards, and I was like, oh, my God, the guy who played Bobby was incredible.

22:34And he was like, that was his first ever show as Bobby. And I was like, I've got to meet him. So, yeah, just met at Stage Door. And then just sort of realised that we had loads of coincidences. Well, you were in Les Mis with Bradley. I was in Les Mis with Bradley, which is his best friend from college. Then I went into Heather's with Joel's housemates. Joel was at press night. then I went to go and see Kiss Me Kate because my other friend from Heather's was in that with you so I ended up at your it wasn't personal but I ended up coming to see it no let's not let's not bring that one up we'll do that one after it's not for a podcast it's so fun though I love it

23:19so I'll cut in now I won't talk about that conversation. When I saw Carrie, after the first time we met, like when I saw her in a show or whatever, I'd just go on Facebook and be like, oh, great, you were really good in the show, blah, blah, that was it. So over seven years, I sent about eight messages. Seven, that's seven years. That's a long time, eight messages. Or some weird stalker before anyone says anything. And it would always be like, if we'd bumped into each other, you'd just be like, great to see you last night, or saw Heather's last night, you were amazing. Really friendly. Nothing to do.

23:48Literally just checking in. Just kind of like, yeah. Absolutely. She did not reply once. I know. Carry on. I know. It's because I never use Facebook. True. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never use Facebook. Never use. Yeah, what are you crying about? You got me in the end. Calm down. Guys, it could have been earlier. No, no. And I agree with this. I agree with this. We do say this. Yeah. I always say. I'm not in a place. We say this about, I was never in a mental place. I honestly wouldn't have been in the right, place for you. You was like rocking. Yeah. But we talked about it. We talked about it last time you were on.

24:27Yeah. Like the boyfriends that you had back then, love them. But they were different. They were needy. They were, they needed mothering. They needed something different from you and actually coming out of that and me and Joel, you gave something different. Well, you're just such an independent person and you just get stuff done. Oh, it annoys, it annoys me. Well, you're just an adult. Just don't bother me. Like if I need something to do, let me do it. you know what I mean I'm like that I can't I remember coming around once and you sorted out the utility room oh it drives me drives me insane keeper drives me insane oh yeah I mean our house our house is always a problem though because we're never in it yeah like so and you know with a kid as well it's nuts and bless Carrie's office it's like everything gets shoved into her office you leave and come back and you're like oh it's been made or been carried I literally had a lie-in of an hour on Sunday morning so I'd clean up everything Saturday night it was spotless I had an hour Sunday morning where I stayed in bed came downstairs and I was like what then and also like you were saying about being on tour it was obviously worse for Carrie when she was on tour because she came in on like a Saturday night or a Sunday morning Kayce had to do the washing whatever and then go so there was never any time for Carrie to help me and that's hard right because if you're touring and you're back on a Saturday night or a Sunday morning and you need to leave again on a Tuesday a Monday or a Tuesday you know you've got a limited amount of time at home you've got to do your washing you've got to do your life admin but then you've also got to give mum everything right and the last thing you want to do on your day off is clean the whole house and then not spend time with your child who you've not been with for the last three or four days yeah it's really difficult it's really difficult to get right and you know we have found a way yeah the house has just stayed as it is well I think we just have to have like the list of priorities you just have to go yeah what's more important for me to spend my time on right now is it getting the washing done or is it sitting down and playing with Mabel and giving her or like you know going out for a walk as a family or a meal as a family the house stuff weighs on me I can feel really quiet if there's stuff everywhere all the time and I just feel it so literally on Sunday it doesn't matter what day does it one of the days of the weekend I literally stayed from the cellar the whole day because all of our shit has been piled down there it's just been added to over the last four years since we've been here and I just cleared the stuff out and all I wanted at the end of it was Tom to come down and be like did he do that?

26:54not enough no furious Tom how dare you I now send other people I'll send you down there before we we'll give you the reaction I say my attic it's our attic but my attic because I'm the one that's actually sorted it so my attic's like that so I'm waiting for Carrie to go up there and be like everything's in I'm like yeah it's good that I know this ahead of time so I can give him the reaction really needs I spent five hours up there non-stop bashing my head continuously the spiders possibly mice right yeah I found a frog corpse oh that's nice he was still sitting up right we have we have mice corpses in our house but that's because of Edgar he loves to bring in but he like Carrie says he thinks he's given us a present well it's also he thinks that we're terrible cats so he brings a mouse in a live one and goes I'm going to teach you you have to go and hunt it now I'm going to teach you how to be a cat and I'm like No, sir.

27:45I won't be doing that. We had mice in the Sahara. The gerbils, right? My friend said they might be jaboas. Apparently jaboas are like desert mice that live in the Sahara. Jaboa sounds like a restaurant chain. I could be pronouncing it wrong. Sounds like a chipotle. I'm going to go to Jaboa for lunch. Do you know what I mean? Get a really good meal. They jumped so high. And so did you. The pictures. Get the roof of the tent. The pictures that you have, though, I love. Carrie's got, like, pictures of the Jeboah. It's like... In motion. It's like a brown... It's like just a blurred little thing. Blur.

28:23It's great. But there was... I don't think I've told you about this. There was a day or a night in the desert where I thought G was being, like, you know, the hero, getting this whatever it was out of the tent. You were being the hero. I was. I was like, I can do this. And then it jumped. And G... It jumped. And G, honestly, her head hit the top of the tent. She jumped so high. It was amazing. It was actually impressive. It made me scream. I love that. But in fairness, I'm sorry, you're not prepared for that. No, I definitely wasn't prepared for that. Thank you. Thank you very much. We're not prepared for those scenarios.

29:00If we lived in that scenario every day, it's like people in Australia. I don't know how they deal with all the poisonous snakes that just come into their house because they're used to it. And I'm like, that's crazy. Oh, my. I couldn't live in Australia. Marco did freak me out one day. Why? Because he said that when he was in the Sahara one time with like a school trip, they had accidentally put one of the tents on a camel spider nest. And the boys all came out screaming from this tent. And he went in thinking that it wouldn't be that big of a deal. And he was like, Carrie, it was like a horror movie.

29:31He said these camel spiders were everywhere. Are they poisonous? I don't know the poisonous, but they're big. They're not the kind of thing you want to put your tent on. Like Indiana Jones, isn't it? They're big, yeah. Yeah, not dealing with that. Terrifying. Not good at all. Yeah. Yeah. Oh dear, I'm just like that. Don't get me... Don't get me... See, I don't know how you did I'm a celeb because anything like that... Can I say, of all the things I do, right, me having I'm a celeb on now and then doing the eating trials and me being able to go to the boys, I've eaten a bull's penis. I don't think they've ever been more proud.

30:02Yeah. I'm with you. What's their reaction? Are they like, oh my God. Yeah. That's so funny. What was he like? Because they're all cockneys. I was like, all right, they're all in the cast of Oliver. Go on, sit yourself. Let's go back to pregnancy, because you were 37 weeks pregnant when we recorded before, and I feel like you had a good pregnancy. I had a really good pregnancy, yeah. Joel, how was your... My pregnancy's not too good. No, how was your take on the pregnancy? I just can't believe what you women go through. I mean, it's unbelievable. like I I couldn't believe first of all that Carrie did two jobs within that time of her pregnancy I found that I mean when you did Panto yeah I was just like that's that's ridiculous I mean it was Panto like yeah but but yeah but even so like we have we have a gorgeous how many shows a week uh 13 yeah ridiculous ridiculous yeah I mean we've got a gorgeous cast member Fari who's pregnant at the moment haven't we and Elf and you know you watch you incredible humans go through this process and it just amazes me.

31:13But also, you can't really help. No. Like, that's what I found hard. Like, I could make things comfortable for you, but you... Yeah, there's nothing really that you could... What do you think? Well, and unless Carrie's telling you how she's feeling, you're kind of sat there going, what's happening right now? My child's in there! How's it feel? Hello! I think the first ten weeks was the hardest because I was really... You were so pretty, yeah. Yeah. And you were doing Crown Jewels. Crown Jewels, yeah. Which is a play in London. And yeah, that was tough. What I did love is, Joel, you were dressed as King George when you found out that you were about to be a dad.

31:51Yeah, she phoned me and I was dressed in the wig, in the whole outfit. And I went, this is not the way I wanted to find out. I hadn't quite expected a positive pregnancy test. Well, because it was the first time, you know, actually, it was the first month. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did say this though, G. Did you? Did you just go, babe, I've got super spankers. sperm it's going to be one month. Essentially give me a day. But in fact I was like but I also think the reason I was like is because Carrie was like you were very worried that it wasn't going to happen. I think it was because of that I was just like I was trying to reassure her that no matter what we go through it's you know.

32:24Yeah we're going to figure out it's going to be fine. Because we all are. You're all very fortunate to be in that position. But yeah I definitely didn't expect that positive pregnancy test which is what like if I'd have you know had an inkling or kind of known I would have waited until he was home. Yeah because you right I literally said to us like why am i finding out like this literally in a little like gray curly wig i was just like this is time that was the first thing you said did you answer in the voice but he knew i was taking the pregnancy test yeah because i was like just in case let's just you know see so then when i facetimed instead of texting back yeah i was i was like you know emotional and sort of laughing because couldn't quite believe it and he was like you're pregnant aren't you?

33:05And I nodded and he went I look like a dick! That's the first thing he said. I do. Did you film it? No I didn't because again I just wasn't quite prepared for it. That's what I think of all those people that do those videos where they tell their partner but do it in like a really magical way. Like how have you had the foresight? Yeah. Quite something. It is. So then heading towards the birth because we haven't talked about this at all. No. The idea was was a home birth. Yep. That's what you aimed towards. You did hypnobirthing. How was that, Joel, the hypnobirthing? Because obviously you have a role within that.

33:42Suddenly you do have something to do. Well, I mean, I did in the sense of... I will say there was a lot that I vetoed. Oh, did you? They give you like lots of scripts and I was like, if you recite that at me, I'm going to laugh. Like, that's not going to help you even a little bit in those... Also, it doesn't help when you're actors though, does it? Yeah. Because when, you know, you think of those times and you're like, let's just breathe it. You're like, oh, no, no, out the window, no. This is reality. I think my reaction would have been, Joe, shut up! I don't think I would have been able to deal with it.

34:12I was thinking like that with the touching. I didn't get in the pool. I didn't get in the pool. No. Because I was just like... Did you have your shorts on just in case? Listen, I would have done it. But it was just something we just weren't bothered about in that way. I was more like, being present was more important. Even having the pool there, though, did that feel like... How long was the pool there before you actually went into labour? So you woke me up about... Oh, we didn't put it up until I was in labour. Yeah. You woke me up about... We were very casual. Was it ten past five in the morning?

34:41Did you not do a test? No? Oh, yeah, we tested it. You did test. We did test it. No punctures. But then you just never know when it's going to happen. I was like, I don't want the... Because it's a big old pool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the middle of the lounge. Yeah, in the middle of the lounge. I was like, I don't want this up for a week. I would have probably reenacted The Little Mermaid. He would have. I would have come home and he would have been sat in it with a cocktail. I would have given it like that. He would have been sat in it with a cocktail one day when I came out. Or Scott. Or Scott.

35:05Or Scott would have been. Scott wasn't even there but Scott probably would have been like. Yeah. I had my issues about putting it up that early. Okay. But yeah, contraction started at like 5.50 in the morning. Were you early late? 40 weeks and a day. Oish. So I was due on February 29th. Yeah. And she said I don't want her birthday every four years. Which I was furious about. Really? I was like, save money for birthday parties yes get in it's the 20th of Feb not your birthday it's the first of birth again not your birthday what can you do sorry do you imagine when she's four you're like actually you're two I mean so yeah we did that and then we set up the pool yeah I just set up the pool well hang on we're skipping out a very important thing I'm sorry I started having contractions and I was lying there going is this it and I sort of waited for a few and then turned over to be like Joel I think it's happening He wasn't there.

35:56He was in the spare room because I'd been snoring. Right, okay. Let me state this. This does not just happen on one night, okay? This wasn't just the pregnancy. This is just me as a human. I'm, as a human, not just as a husband or a loving partner, if I wake up and then someone is snoring next to me, I cannot get back to sleep. Was it Carrie snoring? It's a special, special thing. It's not even like, it's not, I don't even know how you make the sounds that you make. Oh, God. Like, I wish I was... I'm glad you were saying this, because if I said this, she'd be furious, so I'm just going to say silence.

36:31I'm listening, where is that coming from? Because that's incredible. But not out of fascination. I could then sleep. I had an eye mask, I had earplugs, I was good. Sure. Yeah, but I was just bit like, fascination. I didn't. So I went into the other room. He doesn't have that fascination. He's just annoyed. Yeah, I don't have it every night in my life. Yeah, I'm not very good with not a lot of sleep. Yeah. I'm not. So when Carrie was on tour and you had an April and I was sleeping, you must have been a bit like, but this is better. But also, for George Wilson, it was great. Because George Wilson had to be tired, so I walk into her like this.

37:02So I normally will just go in the other room if Carrie... And also, you're asleep. I actually don't want to wake Carrie. If it's easier for me to just get up and go into the room, that's fine. It's not a problem. But then she came and she was like, I think it's happening. I was like, okay, don't worry, let's go. And then we went downstairs. and at first I was quite smug I was like oh you were quite chilled throughout the whole thing in fairness you weren't that bad it was only until we had to sort of go to the hospital that you were just exhausted it was when my waters broke because suddenly contractions went from what felt like just sort of quite severe period pains to oh god like this is it suddenly went from like a 2 to an 11 right and that was also waters breaking what was it like when your waters broke because didn't your waters break first in one of your pregnancies?

37:51Yeah. Yeah, so with Buzz, it broke while I was at dinner with all the McFly guys, Emma and Matt. Literally like a massive dinner. But the best people to be. The best people to be. But I remember talking to Georgia and literally felt a pop. I was like, oh, that's a bit weird. We heard it, didn't we? Did you? Yeah. It was like... Maybe not quite. I was like, yeah! Come on, fantastic. It's ready.

38:26And this is why she wrote me. So were you not in the pool at this point? I was in the pool. Okay. You liked that, didn't you? I did really like that. I get one joke of the day. It was very good. Was the midwife there at this point? Yes. Okay. Yeah, and she was also, she was very, we called up and said, you know, contractions are spaced however far apart and she was like okay great you know at this point it was maybe like 6.30 in the morning and she was like great I'll be there sort of around well no she was very chill at first she was like I'll be there around sort of like quarter to way 8 o 'clock and I was like great she was like you'll be fine until then she was so chilled out all of a sudden contractions were spaced sort of like two and a half minutes apart and like really quickly ramped up and she was like oh okay I'm getting in the car now suddenly changed her tune she was like is the ball up and we were like, no.

39:12She was like, get it up. Get it up very quickly. Should we put the kettle on? I went, okay. Put the kettle on, not a problem. Came around her and, was it Sarah? Yes. Lovely Sarah. They were both brilliant and Carrie watched The Hunchback in Notre Dame while she was in the pool. Great choice. Thank you. It was a really good choice. Yeah. So now every time I sing out there at an audition, I'm like thinking about, oh, Mabel's born during this. Out there. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it's hilarious. Yeah, waters broke whilst I was in the pool. Yeah. Oh, fire. I really laughed. All the theme tunes went on during this.

39:49Yeah, it was great. God help me. Like, all of them. She's great as hits. Yeah, but then, getting to the serious point, but then she just became exhausted. Yeah. Well, I was pushing for two and a half hours. It was exhausting. Still in the pool. Still in the pool. Sort of in and out of the pool to keep sort of like checking on how things were going. Well, Mabel was stuck, wasn't she? Yeah, and she was what they call a stuck. Sarge is a baby, which I think is very sweet. Yeah. For not a very sweet moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where she's facing upwards instead of facing sort of like nose to back. Yeah.

40:19And yeah, she's got herself a little bit wedged. And I think you were a little bit worried when Lee said that we were going to have to be transferred to hospital. Because I think you were worried about me being disappointed and not getting the hospital. But at that point, I was like, whatever. You were so exhausted. I was so exhausted. I was like, just whatever needs to happen. And I think with the hypnobirthing and just, you know. You were great over that though. Because normally, if you don't mind saying it. Yeah, I don't like change. When plans change. Carrie has things that don't go the way that Carrie wants them.

40:43It's like... Because you get something stuck in your head about what it's going to look like. Because you're kind of a perfectionist as well in that way. But I think in that situation it was like... I just like to plan ahead and I like to know what's happening. And so if there's a deviation from that, it sort of freaks me out a little bit. But I think because, you know, the nature of birth is just so... Like you have to give in to the unknown. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know how it's going to happen. And I think the hypnobirthing really helped me just sort of give in to that and just go, she's going to arrive however she's going to arrive and I just have to facilitate that.

41:15We have to facilitate that as best we can. So, yeah, when Lee said, I think we're going to have to transfer into hospital. But then you couldn't believe your luck because... I'd never been in an ambulance. She'd never been in an ambulance before. It was a brand new ambulance. So she was like this. I was like, she's not well. I was like, she's not well. I was like, she's gone delirious. And then she was delirious because she was in the... And also... She was like, look at this. She was like, take a picture of me. I was like, take a picture of her in an ambulance before. I was like, what's going on?

41:42What's going on right now? But also... Was it part of you scared before? When Lee initially said, let's go to hospital. No, because she was so calm. Yeah. And I think as soon as she starts to panic, that's when I need to panic. But she was just so chill about everything. And, you know, she was great at communication as well. And she was always checking Mabel's heartbeat and making sure that it was, you know, strong and she could hear it. And then it was, you know, what it should be. And she'd let me know that. She'd be like, we've got nothing to worry about. Everything's fine. however I think it's probably a good idea that you know you just need a little bit of help and that's how she phrased it and so it just made me feel really calmed do you know what's really funny is like sort of what we were talking about before about experience like lee was the prime example of how experience is it's so integral especially in a position like that as a midwife because they know they've seen a thousand different ways things can go and the fact that they're relaxed and chilled when everyone else if if you are we weren't actually that freaked out because they were like, oh, if Lee's all right, then we're okay.

42:39That's also the amazing thing with a home birth, right? Because you got to really get to know Lee before she was there. We never had enough midwives. Exactly. And that is such a massive bonus. And actually, I wish more women were able to have a relationship with their midwife because that is such an integral... Well, we felt so lucky because the amount of women that messaged me whenever I talked about Lee and the fact that we had the same midwife over and over again, so many women messaged me and was like, oh, how have you done? Have you gone private? and we just lucked out you know everything was NHS everything was and Lisa she's not going to retire until we've finished our kids yeah oh really we know that Lee gave me acupuncture yeah yeah all the boys yeah amazing and she's brilliant she's the best yeah she's so chill yeah and we love her she still pops over yeah still pops around and bakes oh the most incredible she was not baking when she gave me acupuncture I just want to say yeah right when she comes around I'll be like you need to bake a batch for Tom and G because G needs to like it's unbelievable thank you She totally would.

43:36She needs to open her own... She does. She easily could. She's incredible. No, ridiculous. Every time she eats them, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to eat everything in the world.

43:50We had so much fun recording this episode that I decided that I don't want to cut it short and edit bits out. I want to give you it all. So come back next week for part two. See you soon.

44:06Thank you.