Cherry Healey on her successful co-parenting relationship with ex husband

0:01Coming up on Happy Mum, Happy Baby Neither of us wanted to hurt each other. Yeah. And I've just been really lucky that he's, like, the best dad ever. And because I had such a difficult experience with my dad, watching him parent is so healing, I can't even tell you. For all the therapy in the world, just knowing that my children have got the best dad. We had the most family come and visit. It was like going to get my hair done. I walked in, I put a gown on, I lay down. They gave me something lovely that made me not feel anything. Not that they do that at the hairdresser. They give me a cappuccino and a little biscuit.

0:40Best hairdresser ever, babes. I was not aware of how I viewed single parents until I became one. I became a single mum and I realised that nothing changed. I wasn't suddenly waking up and kids going to school late. I was the same mum. On it. I was on it.

1:04Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum, Happy Baby, the podcast. Today's guest is a presenter. She presents some of the most amazing documentaries around. She's a podcast host. She's an author. She's just appeared and boshed it on Celebrity SAS Who Dares Wins. She has two children. It's Cherry Healy. Oh my gosh, it's so great to be here. I'm so happy. Thank you so much for having me on. How are you? The famous Mike. Happy Mum, Happy Baby. Yeah. How are you? I'm great. Life is busy and wonderful and exciting. And yeah, it's a roller coaster at the moment, but it's good. I think things are really good.

1:412023 was awful. 2024 has been banging. Yeah. So it's been great. Amazing. Talk to me about SAS Who Does Win? Because going into the castle, obviously, I had the reaction of my kids after. That's a very different experience to SAS Who Does Win? What was your kids' reaction? Have you let them watch it? Yes. So my daughter is very sporty, very assertive, very brave. She and I love that show and we've watched it together many, many times. And she couldn't have been more excited. Really? Coco was my biggest cheerleader. She was like, get down, give me 20 press-ups and then run up to it. She and she loved watching it.

2:20We watched it together. It was a really an amazing experience to go through the whole process with her. Yeah. My son Bear, not so much. Right. Why? Because he's a gentle spirit. He's a gentle soul. He didn't like the idea of me going on it and he didn't want to watch it either. Had they seen another series of it before? Because, you know, sometimes it can be very much like grown men shouting in your face to get things out. Coco and I have watched it all and she couldn't get enough of it. Bear wouldn't even watch. He watched one minute of it and just said, no, I don't want to see this and just would sit in the other room.

2:55He's just not that guy. Which also makes you proud of him. Do you know what I mean? Oh, such different reactions. Yeah. Completely in keeping with who I think they are as people and they're always surprising me. Your kids are different, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though they come from the same environment. It's funny, isn't it? How did yours react? Oh, mine were very, like, they were a lot younger. It was four years ago, so they would have been six, four and two. So they just wanted me to watch it as soon as I got home. Like, I'd not just experienced it. I walked through the door after not seeing them for four weeks.

3:24And they were like, come and watch it. Come and watch. Did they mind anything that you did? Was the six-year-old particularly more cognitively aware? They cried before I went in because I thought I'd show them the trailer from the year before, like the little best bits. And Buzz was like, because they're suddenly, it's all happy, and then all of a sudden there's loads of screaming. And Buzz was like, I don't want that happening to you. I think that's then what played in my mind when I was in there. I was like, I want them to see me having the best time. Like, this is ridiculous. This is all ridiculous.

3:55And mummy's enjoying it. So I don't want you to be scared seeing me in this environment, which I think is what made me be a bit more blase. They do inspire you and they push you on. And I when I was doing SAS, I knew I wanted to make Coco really proud. And you bear wouldn't watch it anyway. But I really wanted to make Coco proud. And I wanted her to see me being strong and resilient. Yeah. As the experience progressed, because I watched the show, I knew that the torture was coming up. Right. And I was really torn because I'm competitive. I'm really competitive, as is my daughter. So I wanted to complete it, but I just couldn't do it.

4:39Really? I knew that they would put the bag over your head. I knew that there's humiliation. They have to simulate the SAS experience of being captured and tortured and interrogated. And I know they write things on your forehead and spit at you and they drench you in water. You know, they lock Georgia in a cage in the cold. I mean, it was seriously cold. And I just drew a line and I woke up one morning and I could feel the decision was solid in me. And I couldn't progress. And so I left because I thought I can't have Bear watching me being tortured. Yeah. And, you know, some of the clips go on YouTube.

5:18Yeah. And I didn't want Coco to watch it either. Yeah. I just, and I know sometimes they bury you alive. Yeah. Okay. And I just couldn't have the kids watch me do that. Even though you know it's a TV show, you know, it's the safest way that you'll ever experience that. But it's still that thing of having your children have that visual. Right. That's exactly it. And I can deal with the physical challenge when it's also a mental challenge. But that is a psychological challenge that I wasn't prepared. And also I wasn't prepared to really put myself through. Because it's also not just your challenge at that point.

5:52It's a challenge for your kids. Exactly. And am I prepared to put them through that? I proved to myself what I wanted to prove. Am I resilient? Do I have metal? Am I strong mentally and physically? am I who I think I am? Am I tough? Well, I do hard things when I need to and I felt like I'd got there. I had my answer and that was all I needed. And I'm also a bit of a softie. I'm really sensitive and I didn't want to damage anything that I couldn't undamage. Because again, it's a TV show. And how far do you want to be pushed for a TV show? It's a TV show. and was one of the most amazing experiences of my entire life.

6:37I kind of wish everyone got a chance to do it. It changes you as a person. It changed me as a person. I was in a really unpleasant dating situation. Could I call it a relationship? A thing. A thing. Shenanigans. And I got back and immediately broke it off. I thought there's no way that someone just drowned me in a helicopter and I've come back to this absolute shenanigans. So I was different as a person. I had new boundaries. I had new expectations for myself, a new level of confidence. It's amazing how things like that shape us throughout our lives. And we kind of, we look so much to childhood and how our childhood shapes us, but actually experiences along the way do so much.

7:16Yeah. I mean, I encourage everyone to put something really hard in their diary that you think you kind of can't do. It sharpens you. It gives you confidence. The best gift you can give yourself is trust in yourself. Yeah. but the only way you can do that is by doing tricky things difficult things it's the best gift you can possibly give yourself no one can ever take it away from you no no after after celeb did you feel different oh yeah absolutely and i also looked at my role within the house as well and how i'm a facilitator of the fun and happy to stand on the periphery while everyone's having fun doing the things i'll do the things while you have fun and actually kind of getting away from the things that I feel like I need to do and just sort of be in it a bit more.

8:00That's interesting. And do you feel like that's stayed the same? Has that kind of lasted? I think there's a level of awareness that wasn't there before, you know, and definitely kind of going, I feel like I need to do this. Do I need to do this? And, you know, what would happen if I didn't? That's definitely been there. But Cherry, talk to me about your childhood. Where did you grow up? What was it like? I had a, generally speaking, I had a really happy childhood. I've Three brothers, all extremely silly. Where are you in the order? I'm the youngest. Oh! Everyone always says, they always say, oh, you must be a real princess.

8:35Susan, are you joking? The youngest of three extremely silly, incredibly lovely brothers. You don't get to eat unless you eat fast. You don't get to watch what you want to watch. You get constantly sat on, constantly tickled till you throw up. It's so funny. I went on holiday with my brother at the weekend. We were somewhere snowy, but he still would rugby tackle me to the ground. Do you know what I mean? I don't feel like you lose that. I don't. Actually, on my way here, on my marathon journey here, which was just shenanigans, my brother was still texting me silly, ridiculous things. I don't think that relationship ever ends.

9:06The relationships between siblings is so special. Friends can come and then they can go. They move away. Romantic relationships, I mean, gosh, they come and go, babes. Like in one hour. Your names are on the list. I mean, gosh, that's a whole other podcast. But your siblings are there from the beginning. They're witnesses to your whole life. And if, you know, I haven't had a constant romantic partner, my siblings have been witnesses to my life, and that's very, very special. So I think they've been a very big part of who I am. Again, you know, they're outside playing cricket, rugby, football. I'm either on my own or I'm outside playing with them.

9:52So it's made me love sport. Yeah. It's made me appreciate feeling strong. I definitely don't mind being teased. Teasing is my love language. There's no joke you can tell me that will offend me. There is no, there's nothing. I'm not easily offended at all. That's so interesting, though, when you say that you're quite soft. Very. But when it comes to jokes, nah. Don't care. The ruder, the better. I'm sensitive in that I can detect unkindness and I can detect meanness and I'm very energetically sensitive. Someone can ruin your day by saying, how are you? In a cold way. And I can feel it and I'll spend the next three days going, oh, God, why did Susan say that?

10:37What did they mean? What did they mean? But tell me a silly joke and I don't care because you can feel the intention is love and silliness. Yeah. And did your childhood make you ever think about the future and you having your own family? Absolutely. So I think one of the biggest influences in how I parent is probably my relationship with my dad, which was quite tricky. And unfortunately, he suffered from a lot of addiction problems, which comes with it. Some really, really challenging behavior. Yeah. And I didn't feel particularly close to him. Was this throughout your childhood as well? Yeah, throughout my entire childhood and my adult life.

11:19So he died a few years ago. And I felt like he was released from, I think at the end, I think he'd had enough. I think he tried really hard. he tried really hard to get over his addiction problems and he never left us yeah and he tried to yeah he tried to be a good man a good dad and he often was like he was great in so many ways but I always felt slightly nervous of him because he got into big he got into moods very quickly he gave me the silent treatment for for a long time when you're really little when you're five and your father's not talking to you very confusing when he's one minute he's hugging you in the next minute he doesn't even want to talk to you it's really confusing I think that's probably why I'm so sensitive yeah because I'm always the energy that's around you if you you know that someone's that that spikiness might be there or yeah and you don't have the verbal you don't have the verbal affirmation of I'm cross with you because you've done this yeah you've only got energy to to teach you so I speak the language of energy yeah fluently but again And it's sometimes annoying because you almost feel like you're telepathic when someone says, yeah, I'm fine.

12:33I'm like, are you? Yeah, I'm going to let it go. But that's I've I've wanted to when I got pregnant with Coco, I went into therapy. Really? Because my dad was at his at the peak of his unwellness when she when I got pregnant. And I didn't I thought, you know what? I don't want to pass any of this on. and as you do with your family, you adopt, you absorb behavioural patterns. So I was quite passive aggressive. I really struggled to voice my opinion or to voice my unhappiness about anything. Do you think that was also your own anxiety about becoming a mum? Because I know that when you did get pregnant, it was quite a shock that you got pregnant.

13:17In terms of career, you were really advancing what you wanted to do. You were doing things that you loved. Then you got pregnant and you must have, Especially, I think, having to manage that area of, you know, your dad's impact suddenly. You know, all of a sudden, it's all very affronting. That's exactly right. That's exactly how I felt. It was like falling off a cliff. I found that I was pregnant almost by accident. I was walking around Westfield Shopping Centre and I was working at the BBC. I was loving my career. I'd just been made an assistant producer. I'd worked for years and years happily with love.

13:53God, I love my job. Love my BBC lanyard more than anyone's loved a lanyard. And I had just done my first documentary about alcohol. My dad, you know, struggled with alcohol. So I really felt excited about my career. And I walked into Westfield's shopping centre to get a sandwich opposite the BBC. And I felt my boobs. And I went, God damn it, they're so big. What the hell? I'd never taken a pregnancy test in my life. Never had a pregnancy scare ever. and I went into Superdog and I bought pregnancy tests. Kind of, I know, I didn't even know that your boobs get big when you get pregnant. It was a weird instinct.

14:32Because that's the thing, isn't it? Sometimes when you're trying, you're obsessively looking at symptoms and trying to, like, fit what your body's doing into those symptoms. But with that... Oh, I wasn't even vaguely trying. I knew nothing about pregnancy. I knew nothing about being a mum. I mean, I couldn't... Having a baby couldn't be even further from my mind, which I know is really frustrating for people who are trying to get pregnant, and it's really difficult. but that's your experience. So I was listening to Usher on my headphones. I didn't even take my leather jacket off. I literally just weed on the stick.

15:01So that's how unprepared I was. And I looked at it and I thought, I mean, I fell off the cliff. I've never been so shocked, terrified, scared in all my life. And I called my friend Ellie afterwards and I just swore down the phone for about two minutes straight. And then I called my partner, my wonderful, gorgeous partner, who I was really in love with and we had a really great relationship. And our relationship was going that way anyway, but it was just before I was ready. And at the time, my dad was really ill and he had a real breakdown. So timing-wise, you're right, it was a shock in so many different ways.

15:40And that's why I went into therapy because I was nervous. My cortisol levels were through the roof because my dad had disappeared and we thought he'd gone to kill himself. and I'd moved back in with my mum to help her. So I was, the police were involved. It was not my favourite time. Yeah. And then to find out I was pregnant. It must have been just another layer. Oh, it was, I mean, it was madness. So I went to therapy because I could feel that I needed my cortisol. I didn't want my cortisol to affect my baby because that's, you know, is that lasting? I didn't know. And I wanted to also, so to feel calm, pregnant, and also I knew that I needed to deal with stuff anyway with my relationship with my dad.

16:25So I went in twice a week at the beginning. Really? I saw her twice, and luckily I found this out. I mean, I see her now. I still see her. Was that the first time you'd ever gone through therapy? Yeah. The first therapist I saw was awful. I saw her three times. She wasn't a talker. Right. She was almost judgmental in that. I sat down and I said, oh, I've never done therapy before. I'm really nervous and things at home are really bad. And she was like... She just shrugged. And I said, I don't know how to do this. What do I do? And she was like, she just shrugged. She didn't talk to me. Wow. And then at the end of the session, she said, time's up.

16:59The terrible thing about that is that you know that for some people, they will try therapy once. And if it is wrong, they'll just go, therapy is not for me. And if you are at a crisis point, that person that's on the other end of you talking and you sharing is so vital. It's so important that they're right. And I think it was like someone had taken two legs of my table and it was visibly wonky. And I went in and I showed her how wonky my table was and she didn't hold me. Yeah. And then luckily I found another one, literally just Googled her and she looked like my friend. So I went with her. There was that much research.

17:36And she just happened to be perfect, perfect, kind, wonderful she's walked me through challenges around my body challenges around my relationship with my dad later she helped me through my divorce I when my father died I went back to see her she knows more about me weirdly she knows more about me than any other human on the planet so what's wonderful now is that I can go and see her I book in for three sessions if I just need to check in I don't need to explain anything yeah it's one of the most cherished relationships of my entire life. That's amazing. And it's also doing therapy, not that you can't do it in a right way, but it's doing therapy in a way that you properly lean in and expose.

18:22So I was talking to someone about therapy the other day and they said, you have to say the thing. When you're in therapy, you have to say the thing. Say the thing. Don't overthink it. Say the thing. Say the thing. Unless it's out there. Right. What are you doing? Yeah. I don't think it's expensive. I think that it is the right price for what it is because my therapist is so highly skilled, so highly experienced, but it costs money. Yeah. And, you know, it's not nothing. Say the thing. You've gone all the way there. You've paid the money. Say the thing. And it's hard. It's like having a revision book.

19:00You're just going, it's okay, I don't need to revise because I've got the book now. No, you actually need to open the book. And if you don't say the thing, you're not even opening the book. And that thing that you did on Friday that you weren't proud of, That thing you said on Wednesday, when you are recounting a story, recount it truthfully. Don't make yourself into a hero. The fact that you said something to your partner and you said it in the unkind, say that because that's where you will get help. Gosh, you have to be, you have to cut yourself open. That's a lot to go through whilst pregnant.

19:30I mean, because it's also that thing of you have to really, you have to break yourself before you build yourself almost, don't you? So really like getting that out there. Yeah, it was so good. I really, I took to it like a duck to water, babe. You surprised me, Cherry. Can you imagine? But also, you know, I had known things went right with my dad from the very start. I used to listen to mum and dad argue. Poor mum, she really did the best she could. But I used to wake up in the middle of the night and hear them arguing and go and sit at the top of the stairs. I still don't quite know why I did that.

20:05but I used to sit and listen to them white that white terror you know that shiny terror I used to listen to them and it would happen all the time so I knew things were not right with dad and him not talking to me and going from being incredibly charismatic and lovely to incredibly cold I just knew something wasn't right so I've lived with that my whole entire life but no one's ever talked about it I've just known it behind closed doors you never know what family we presented very well but behind closed doors things were hard. Well now that you have started talking about it how has that been within the family?

20:41I just want to say my mum's a legend because I have never talked about it publicly until recently but I wanted to talk about it within the SAS context because I feel like it explained a lot about me it explains a lot about me about my kind of hypervigilance and I'm such an intense person. when my friends watched SAS and they took the hood off and the SAS guys, they went, you're very intense. My friends all fell about laughing. The SAS guys, their feedback to me was, you've got to stop taking this so serious. I was watching at home with my friends. They were all crying with laughter. They were like, you are very intense.

21:25Because I am. I thought, God, I wonder if the SAS have ever had to tell someone to chill out. It's me, they start going, because it's a TV show. And you're like, yeah, it's a TV show. I'm going to take it very seriously. Like, 100%. I was there with all my buttons done up every morning. Like, that's that. Like, everything in line. But again, I went to boarding school, so I know how to organise myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was born for that show. Yeah. Well, I was born to do S.A.S. But how was the rest of your pregnancy? Sort of mental health, you know, you're looking at that and you're looking at the emotional side physically.

22:01How was your pregnancy? Really, really good. Really, really good. Did you get your head around the fact that... Yeah, well, do you know what? My partner said to me, I was really devastated for a couple of months and I cried a lot. I knew that was kind of the end of my telly career. I thought it was the end of my telly career. And telly was such a vocation, a passion of mine. I felt like I'd found the one. I'd found the one. I was deeply in love. So I cried a lot. I thought that's the end of that. in those days there wasn't flexible working flexible working are you kidding me you stay till it's finished yeah you can't go and pick a child out from school don't be silly so I cried a lot and my partner said to me you know I basically this is this is a beautiful thing and you need to get your head around it and I and I did and then I thought okay here we go it's life throws you curveball.

22:56Let's see what this challenge is. And I saw it like I was training for a marathon. I thought, I know birth's going to be brutal, or I think it's going to be brutal, and I know I'm going to have to recover afterwards. So I want my body to be as fit as possible. I'm eating for two, and I saw that as eating in terms of responsibility. It's not the amount. I mean, you need an extra banana or a day, I think, in terms of the amount. So they say you're eating for two. It's sadly only an extra 300 calories or something like that. It's very small. It's the worst. It's such a sad saying, actually, because it's so wrong.

23:30It's so wrong. I want to sit down and eat all the cake, and that doesn't mean that. I was so excited about doughnuts. And then I read in a book, and they went, you need to eat an extra banana a day. And I was like, no. Why? Why? Are you kidding me? It's like all the doughnuts laid out in front of me. Oh, my gosh. So, yes, I was really into fitness. I ran until quite late. Lots of toning work. I felt really physically there. Was it amazing seeing your body doing that whilst also growing a child? It's very different. It was amazing. I was making a documentary about being pregnant at the same time.

24:07So I was really, I really was, it was a real privilege to be making a documentary about it because I was given the opportunity to think about it and be present with the, really present with the experience. Because I was, I hope I would have done it anyway, but I was really forced to ponder upon the whole experience. I was given time and space to think about the pregnancy. And because I was lucky and I felt physically well, it felt like a really positive thing. And because of everything else that was going on around me, I'm really glad that the physicality of it was good. Like I didn't add to the layer of crap that was going on.

24:49Yeah. And I felt like she and I had a good start together. It was a really positive thing. And I felt like I wanted to eat so well for her. I treated myself like a racehorse. It was like green juices, beautiful salads, fruits and veg, and like three meals a day and full of nutrition. So I felt banging. Yeah. And lots of exercise. So I wanted to give her the best possible start with all the storm around. And I thought at least I can, there are some things I can control. Also, balance it a little bit to kind of go, okay, this is going on, but let me sort out this bit that I can control. I literally put Coco and I in a hut.

25:30Yeah. And there was a storm blowing outside, but I battened down the hatches with a hammer and nails and created this little, almost like a bell jar. Yeah. A vacuum for her and I and controlled the controllables. Mm-hmm.

25:54How did you feel heading towards the birth? Absolutely fucking terrified. Really? God. I did this thing called hypnobirthing. Yeah, I've done hypnobirthing. Did you do hypnobirthing? Absolutely. Great, right? Yeah. Changed my perspective. So were you really scared before that? Had someone suggested hypnobirthing to you? Someone said something to me about birth. Yeah. And I won't repeat it because I just don't want it in people's brains. But it was so bad that I thought... And you can't, I'm like, you're on the train. You have to go to the station. So hypnobirthing was advised for me and it was brilliant.

26:28There was a lot of lying in a bath listening to a tape with someone saying, your vulva is opening like a flower. Not your vulva, not your vulva. Your cervix is opening like a flower. I'm like level 10. But it really helped me understand the mechanics of it. and if you relax, the more you relax, the more your body is able to do its thing. Did that relax you then towards the end and kind of go, no, I've got this, you know, kind of, or at least there's that feeling, isn't it? Because I think heading towards birth, there's such an unknown about what's going to happen, how your body's going to be, how you're going to be in that experience.

27:04But hypnobirthing just gives you, it's like, I don't know, it's like something hugging you while you're going in, that protective layer. Yes. Your mental state is everything. And it allows you to find peace within that. So did you feel scared before birth? I think I was really excited. I think I, I don't know. Why were you excited? Because it's very human. I think maybe the actual birth part of it, because I've never experienced it. I think there was an excitement, like I was excited. Like what's going to happen? What's going to happen? But I also think I'm someone, I think I'm, come on, let's get this done.

27:43And also my nonna, so I think it's also my Italian side. Like my dad was the fourth, her fourth baby. She'd gone up to the mountains to collect water. Had to, you know, was walking back down, put the water aside and gave birth. You know, it's that thing of, I feel like, yes, maybe it's hit me in some way. But hypnobirthing gave me this sort of, this softness to that. Let's get on with, like, let's do it attitude. You know what I mean? It's kind of that really listening and not just, I think we see so much about push, push, push. And actually, there's so much more to birth than just push. Relaxing into it is a game changer.

28:18And also, I mean, in the end, I had to be induced. Right. Which is tricky for hypnobirthing because it suddenly becomes very medical. But I think that hypnobirthing meant that I stayed calm much longer than if I hadn't done hypnobirthing. Even though I had ended up having a cesarean. Right. I was calm the whole way through until I needed the cesarean. if that makes sense. It still helped me hugely. I think you can fall into a bit of a trap of kind of going, well, no, I'm being a bit of a purist with something. And actually, I think anything that helps you, take the bits that work for you and absorb them, use them, but just know that you're on a journey, like things might change.

28:58And I had the same thing actually in terms of it just kept me calm. It made me feel like I can breathe, I can do this. I had some sort of control in that environment. And I think it lasts afterwards as well. It's a kind of life skill where you go, can I control this? Yes, I can. Well, here we go. It's action time. Can I control this? No. Let go. Yeah. Let go. There's no point in knowing I can't control it and still vibrating with stress and anxiety. Let it go then. Let it go. With your caesarean, did you feel like you were able to accept that your birth went a different way straight away. Totally.

29:38Because some people can't, you know. Oh, gosh. I, honestly, I wanted a natural birth because I found hypnobirthing so wonderful. Yeah. But the minute that she wouldn't come out, I mean, they tried everything. They gave me every drug under the sun that she wasn't coming out. And because I was peaceful about birth, but I still wasn't particularly looking forward to it, I had bought myself eight doughnuts. So like a prize. I don't eat doughnuts really, generally, because they're kind of my addiction. And so I just like that. They're out of my life. Yeah. Because I can't monitor it. So I just don't have them ever.

30:15So I thought, you know what? It's going to make me look forward to birth. I'm going to get every single type of different doughnut. And so I so I call and I also stopped calling birth like the birthday. Right. Labor Day. I called it doughnut day. So whenever anyone was like, when's a due date? I was like, when's doughnut day? It's doughnut day. Susan. And so my lovely partner went to Waitrose and bought every single, I had an iced bun, I had a jammy donut, I had a Chelsea bun, I had a cinnamon swirl, I had yum-yums from M &S. Literally, I had eight and people were like, oh, you'll never eat them.

30:52I ate every single one. And one of them fell on the floor. And even though I strapped up to all this stuff, I jumped off the bed, got it. So what, literally while you were in labour, you were scoffing down the donuts? Yes, every single one. So by the time, it really takes the edge off. FYI, I tip to anyone. It's covered in sugar. So sitting on my bouncy ball, listening to this like calming meditation music by eating an ice bun, it was so good. Best day of my life. It really sounds, well, hymnabuzzying is all about bringing things along that make you happy. It's really good. A box full of doughnuts.

31:31Made me so happy, made me so happy. So I had gone through this process and I was on the bed and I'd given me an epidural, I think, at this point because they cranked up the medication. So the contractions were spicy. So I gave up at that point. I said, I definitely want an epidural. They then came in and said, we're worried now because so much time has passed. We want to give you a cesarean, but we're going to give you some time to think. I was so tired at that point and covered in jam and sugar. Nothing to do with the birth. dying of diabetes I was like no don't go away please don't leave the room I want it now, now it's time and so they rushed me in I just thought this is great, I can have a little sleep and they kept trying to wake me up so tired, I'm so full of donuts and so they gave me the cesarean and I went into shock I think I was really cold as well and I was shook kind of uncontrollably and they lifted her up and they said, it's a girl, which was the best moment of my entire life ever.

32:43Nothing, how can anything match that? And they put her on my chest and I just, I mean, again, I'm quite an intense person. So obviously I started to hyperventilate because, gosh, that's the moment when you see your baby for the first time and I was like

33:05total wreck and I was like take her, I thought I was going to drop her so my partner took her who's cool as a cucumber always cool as a cucumber and I just gathered myself it was the most I can't really describe it her little weird alien face you know they do this thing when they come out like a frog being electrocuted. And they just keep doing it. The whole experience is bonkers. And I had a director with a big camera there.

33:41The whole thing is wild. And she was sitting on a stool at the back of the surgery. And she said it was so amazing. She fell off the stool. No! But again, luckily, you couldn't see my vagina because it was a cesarean. So you just see Coco coming out and doing the little froggy thing. Gosh. What an experience, isn't it? It's really nice reliving it, by the way. Really enjoying this. Well, how did it compare to the second birth then with Bear? So different. Really? So different. So I knew that I wanted a cesarean again. I felt like I've got the scar. I know the deal. I guess also after the relief of it the first time around, it's kind of like, let's just go there.

34:23Exactly. And I'm not a martyr, right? If there's an easy way around, I'll go for it. If there's a shortcut, I'm taking it. So I went in and someone said, you're going to have to really fight your corner to get a cesarean. I said, even if I really want one, even if it's the right thing, I knew it was the right thing for me. And they said, yeah, goodness. So they said, you're going to have to go in and pretend to be a bit traumatised by your birth. I wish I wasn't traumatised, but I knew deep in me that I wanted to have another cesarean. And I just felt like my body didn't particularly love giving birth or want to give birth.

35:00It just wasn't doing what it was supposed to be doing. And I didn't want to have that same experience. So I had to do that thing where I went in and pretended like I was really traumatic. Anyway, they agreed to give me cesarean. It was the most lovely, calm, peaceful, magical experience ever. He barely cried. We went into a room afterwards. we paid for a little private room, which was the best money we'd ever spent. And we had the most, we had family come and visit. It was like going to get my hair done. I walked in, I put a gown on, I lay down. They gave me something lovely that made me not feel anything.

35:38Not that they do that at the hairdresser. They give me a cappuccino and a little biscuit. Best hairdresser ever, babes. Come on, numb me up. That's a lot. That's a lot extra. One of those biscuits and some numbing. So it was really peaceful. And Bear is, I don't know whether this means anything. It wasn't like Coco was wild, but Bear was the calmest baby I've ever known in my life. I guess, what was the time like between Coco arriving and Bear arriving? How different did life look during those years? It was also much different. You know, I was married. I had my own home. it was peaceful you know my my dad had been to rehab and was better was he back then yeah I think he was back and more stable so I was calm about that my mum was in a new place and she was okay again everything had cut so I was calmer yeah do you know I've never thought about that you're right everything was calmer and and the birth was really fabulous I couldn't have asked for a calmer happier birth what was it like me in bear oh god it's so amazing he's god he is the sweetest angel in the world like yeah I was really I had a really really awful heartbreak like recently, well, not a couple, over a year ago now, maybe two years ago, gosh, time flies, and I really tried to hide it from him because it's not for my kids to emotionally look after me.

37:20But he used to get home from the school run, he used to, like, brush my hair because he's very sensitive, like me, and he'd brush my hair and I thought, I wonder if you're doing that because you can feel I'm not okay, even though I should have got a BAFTA for my award for my performance of I'm fine. But you know when someone's not fine. He's just very thoughtful, very sweet. And he's been like that since when he was a baby. He just smiled a lot. And my poor friend who had a baby exactly the same time as me, her baby screamed a lot. And we used to hang out. She'd be like, I hate your son. He was so chill.

38:00He was super chill. He still is. He's just lush. He's so good. I love that. And all the worries that you had before falling pregnant with Coco of kind of like that's career ending, you know, you're not going to be able to do the thing that you love. Like how how did that progress? Obviously, I had the documentary, you know, followed pregnancy and stuff. How did how did that progress? And did you have you managed to find a balance? Absolutely. I was so lucky because TV production in those days, it would have been a real challenge to juggle, to balance. But presenting is a different, there's a different workflow.

38:44When you're filming, you'll wait all day. And then when you're not filming, you can work from home. So I could be there a lot for the kids. And so the juggle kind of worked. and I was doing branding work, which again, you can do from home or you can do it in shorter slots and speaking activities and all the kind of funny, weird things that pop up. And I used to take them all over with me. When Coco was about two, I got, gosh, maybe I'm younger, I got a job advertising blue paper in America. No, but you know we were talking about saying the thing. the real thing, because it wasn't even loo paper.

39:27What was it? Adult wet wipes.

39:33Look, adults need wet wipes. It's all right. Do they? Do they? Well, I made sure you thought you did. So when people come to my house, I always say, this is the house that adult wet wipes built. So that was a fabulous job. I was flown over to America with an extra seat. I mean, once we were upgraded to first, I had Coco with me. She was the size of a baked bean can. And she was sitting in a first class seat. I've got so many pictures of her. I mean, ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. But I got to fly all over the place with them. And, you know, I learned how to make a little bed in the kind of footwell of the airplane seat.

40:17And they were so used to traveling with me. They were really chilled about it. Quite chilled about it. Yeah. So I took them everywhere. I'd take them on filming days with me. I had an amazing Austrian au pair who's just like the love of my life. She's just wonderful. She'd come with me. You talk, by the way, so amazingly. I've heard you talk so amazingly about the help and about outsourcing the things that don't make you happy. If you can, really look at where you're spending your money and what will give you the most peace, the most fun. and don't feel shamed about that. At all, don't be a martyr.

40:52Happy mum, happy baby. I remember when you started this and I remember looking at that and thinking, well, she's nailed it. She's nailed it. Parents, we don't just do anything, she's done it. She's said everything, everything that needs to be said about parenting is said on this mic. I really believe that. I'm not a martyr. There's no point in being a martyr because your children take the weather forecast from you. Is it raining? Is it sunny? Is it peaceful? Is it windy? Are we okay? Are we not okay? So you've got to be okay. And we were really lucky. We did have a spare room, which meant we were able to get really affordable childcare.

41:30I know not everyone can have, and childcare is so expensive in this country. Wonderful people like Anna Whitehouse are doing incredible things to change that. But until that's fully done, I know not everyone can afford childcare, but if you can, where you can, do. Do it. Use your friends and family. If they offer to babysit, you leave that child at that door. And I feel like that needs to start from the moment your baby arrives. If someone comes over and says, can I do anything? Yes. Yes, please. Get rid of anything that's in your head that goes, no, no, I should do everything because I'm super mum and therefore should be able to.

42:08Yes, can you do the dishwasher for me? Absolutely. Can you just put a load of washing on for me? Right. Could you just bring over a meal? Bring a lasagna, anything. And I think if you get into that rhythm of kind of going, look, you know, we say it takes a village because it takes a village. So find your village and lean on it. And it used to be a village. We used to live in a village and we'd have aunts and uncles and grannies and everyone and friends right next to us in our hut. Now we live such separate lives and it's incredibly difficult to parent these days. Childcare is expensive. Everyone, you're working, you know, the mum and the dad, whoever's parents are, they're working.

42:48So get as much help as you can. One thing I love, Cherry, is how you talk about your kid's dad and how much love you clearly have, how much respect you have for him. How old were the kids when you split? Oh, I think, gosh, I think Bear was two, three, and Coco was four years older than that. Yeah. And I've been really lucky. I've been really lucky. I feel like I've won the lottery on that. He's just incredibly fair, balanced. Neither of us wanted to hurt each other. Yeah. And I've just been really lucky that he's, like, the best dad ever. And because I had such a difficult experience with my dad, watching him parent is so healing, I can't even tell you.

43:37For all the therapy in the world, just knowing that my children have got, I literally mean this when I say the best dad in the whole world, is like heals my childhood wounds. And also as a child though, when you were going through that, a massive part of you would have felt like it's you. And actually seeing him in the way that he is with your kids, it's kind of like, no, that was another adult. you know that was nothing to do and for your inner child to kind of go absolutely and I really really I see it my inner child sees it and I can feel it doing good things but I know that divorce isn't always like that and I know that people struggle in lots of ways and it takes two to tango and for all the will in the world if the other person isn't willing to you know pick your battles put aside winning an argument is pointless yeah no one wins So let it go if you can.

44:33But it takes two to tango with that one. You can't do it on your own. So I was very lucky. Yeah. And one thing you also have talked about is the stigma around being a single parent. Oh, yeah. I was not aware of how I viewed single parents until I became one. That's really interesting, isn't it? Us not even realising or noticing how we might perceive people that are doing it differently to us. And when we grew up with Harry Enfield portraying, do you remember Wayne Etter? I don't even think she was a single mom. But that kind of idea of broken, unreliable kids going to school with mucky faces and homework not done.

45:13I'm military organized. My house is tidy. I've got food in the fridge. I work hard. My kids go to bed at the same time every night. I'm not blowing my own trumpet. But what I'm saying is I became a single mom and I realized that nothing, nothing changed. I didn't suddenly start, you know, I wasn't suddenly, you know, waking up and kids going to school late. I was the same mum. On it. I was on it. Yeah. I was on it. And of course, I'm not saying it was all easy, but staying in a marriage that's not right isn't easy. Being a single mum has its challenges. Pick your hard. Yeah. Pick your difficult.

45:49So, yeah, but I felt like I realised that I think that my perception of single mums wasn't super positive until I became one. And I realised that it was absolutely pointless. But a lot of the media portray single mums in a negative way. And David Cameron didn't help when the riots happened. And he said he blamed it on single parents. Really? Out of nowhere. He did a big speech and said, you know, we need to clamp down on single parent families as though they had anything to do. I do understand. How? How are you going to do that? But fathers, I think his point was it's about absent fathers and young men not having direction, leadership, role models.

46:30I understand that. However, it doesn't matter if people stay married and the father is absent. You know, it isn't their present leading way. And single mums work really hard and they often set really good role models. So it's much, much more nuanced than that. But again, it feeds into our idea that all single mums, you know, broken society. Not so much. Cherry, if you were to write a letter on motherhood, who would it be to and what would you say? Oh, it would definitely be to my mum. Oh. Definitely. God, that woman. That woman, so magical. And she's worked so hard and she really covered us from some really difficult things.

47:15She's an actual magician.

47:21she's all about love and peace and she should have worked in the UN she should have worked in the UN she's about grace, forgiveness, moving on thinking about other people thinking about your effect on other people we had home cooked meals every single night I just didn't appreciate how much work that I'd sometimes be like oh I don't want chicken casserole it's taken an entire day to make the best lasagna in the entire world right best shepherd's pies lasagna stews casseroles on Saturday we'd have sausage and mash on Sundays an enormous roast with everything puddings the whole lot homemade custards you name it you name it she cooked it and from scratch the house was warm and cosy and cuddly and full of love and she was consistent and solid as a rock.

48:19Yeah. And nothing has ever changed. She's still that person now. She's just available for anything at any time. She's the best granny that you could ever wish for. She's taught me everything about what it is to be a human being, about love and about being consistent energetically. There's never a time when I call her and I'm nervous that she's going to be off with me or unless I'm a real dick, which can be. Also, since being a mum, have you looked at how things would have been for her with your dad and seeing everything and, you know, that role, you know, which is, it is being a mum, but it's beyond that as well.

49:02Oh, I think about how my mum parented when we were younger all the time. I think about it all the time. When my mum and dad were first married, they didn't even have an inside loo. They didn't have a dishwasher. They didn't have a... So they had their challenges even just financially. You know, in those days, a lot of married couples didn't have... We always think about the good old days. Were they? I don't know about that. So they had financial troubles as well. And until my dad qualified to be a lawyer, they really struggled for money. And they were living off a student loan with... And she had two children from a previous marriage.

49:33I mean, this woman is a superhero. And then when my dad's addiction really started to kick in, she was having to deal with his moods and his inconsistencies and not knowing where he was a lot of the time. And, you know, she'd sometimes have to, you know, fight his corner in ways that you shouldn't have to. And I sensed something wasn't right, but I never knew because she was so good at keeping the ball rolling. Every school run, every, you know, there was always jam donuts or tea and jam and, you know, crumpets. And it was, she made everything magical, homemade cakes in the shape of a shark with a person being eaten, you know.

50:12huge cake with a doll, birthday party. You know, she didn't have any money. Isn't it incredible, though, that at home you had someone so full of light and love? Oh, she's magical. And then such uncertainty in the other side. And I'm so lucky that she was my mum because she did. She created magic at home. I laughed lots as a kid and I was really happy. I knew that my dad wasn't something that wasn't right. But my main feeling about being a child was that I was really happy. My three silly brothers really helped. But, you know, the house was full of ball games and laughing and eating sweets and watching silly shows.

50:55Yeah. You know, and morning cartoons and building dens and hide and seek. It was a good childhood. Yeah. But that's because I had this magical, magical woman at the helm. She sounds incredible. She really is. We end the podcast with you completing three sentences. The first one is being a mum means... Feeling so much love, it's hard to put it into words. And, you know, sometimes people say being a mum means you put yourself second in everything. I just don't really agree with that. I feel like you run parallel through life with this child, with this other human. And it's just really fun to watch them grow up.

51:40And my daughter's now 15. And God, it's like so fun hanging out with her. We watch sci-fi films and she puts on all my hoodies and she ravages my makeup collection. And I couldn't love her more. She's like the best person to hang out with. And my son as well. It's really fun watching someone grow up. Since having children, I?

52:01Have got better and better as a person. Well, that's the thing, isn't it? I guess for you, it's the start of, they were the start of you. healing yeah they were the reason I went to therapy they were the reason that I healed they're the reason that I do brave things they are gosh they're just magical they teach me so much about myself they're like a mirror children is like someone holding a mirror up to yourself you have to check yourself because they're going to absorb your patterns so you better check yourself and finally I'm happy when I'm watching a sci-fi film with take out on the way with my two kids and my lovely boyfriend and cats and the fire is on there's nothing better Jerry thank you so much thank you thank you

53:02Thank you.