From addiction to manifestation: how motherhood saved Roxie Nafousi

0:00I think there's something glorious about falling in love though. Yeah. You know, will they, won't they? Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, to us and motherhood and how we're so great. Right. Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum, Happy Baby, the podcast. Today's guest is a self-development coach, a manifesting expert, a three times Sunday Times bestselling author and mum to Wolf. It is Roxine Hufusi. Thank you so much. It's such a good name. Thank you. I can imagine on The X Factor, the guy with the sound, you know, the guy who introduced the X Factor artist. Yeah. Roxy, not a ghost name.

0:43Oh, my God. I love that. Do you know, I'll take it because I chose my own name. Yes, I know. I've read this. Yeah. So it could have been Rocky. Honestly, it was a close call when I was 12. I was like, should we go for Rocky? My friend at the time thought that was the better choice, and I'm really so happy that I went with Roxy. So what is your real name? My real name is Rowan. Right. That's a lovely name. Thank you. And I, you know, when I was younger, not to give you my whole life story now, but, you know... That's what we're here for. Okay, let's just go. I'm Iraqi. Both my parents are Iraqi.

1:23Grew up in a Muslim household and grew up in Oxford. And it was around the time of 9-11 and the Iraq war and Islamophobia was everywhere. And people particularly were villainizing all Iraqis, you know. And so I got incredibly badly bullied. I was, you know, once locked in a phone box while they chanted Saddam and I was left there for two hours until I was found. Oh, my God. And it was so, it was just so horrific. And I decided to move schools at that point. And when I moved, I thought, well, I just don't want people to know that I'm Iraqi. I don't want them to think that I'm an Arab. So I used to really not want my parents to drop me off at school firstly because my mom wore a headscarf.

2:15And I was so ashamed of her. I was embarrassed of her, which is horrible to think now. And I thought, well, I'm going to have to change my name so people don't assume that I'm Arab from my name. And so I just thought, OK, I kept the letter R and that was about it. But, you know, really what it was is in that moment, I suppose I was rejecting myself. I was holding a lot of shame and I was really believing that who I was was simply not enough and that I wouldn't be accepted as I was. And so that started this journey of really molding myself to be what I thought other people wanted from me. and you know it kind of got worse and worse over the years um but I suppose that was the beginning of it and only now you know in my well in my late 20s I suppose was when I really actually realized how much I love my Iraqi culture how proud I am of it and so I often say I'm sort of Roxy day to day but at home I'm still Rowan you know my family my family call me Rowan and All my nieces and nephews call me Wanny because they can't say Rowan, so it became Wanny.

3:25So I'm Auntie Wanny. So, you know, it's still very much a part of me. So I think knowing your heritage and leaning into that as well, it makes you feel grounded when you know those details. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I feel so comforted by it now. And I think, like I was saying to someone yesterday, like, I've just started cooking. I've just started cooking. I just feel like I need to cook more at home. But I finally... You haven't until this point? Basically, no. It's been... Honestly, don't even... Me and food is a fucking disaster. Really? Yeah, it's a disaster. I mean, my... I eat a bowl of cornflakes every night before bed.

4:05That is my guilty pleasure. Every night. Douse it in sweetener. And I just... I just have the diet of a child. Three Sunday Times bestsellers. That is insane. Thank you. That's incredible. Especially when you look at when you started writing. And, you know, that's such a short space of time to have three bestsellers. Thank you so much. Yeah. Do you know, I love writing. And I think that my mum said to me recently that as a kid, I was always writing. Yeah. And I was always had a pen in my hand. And I had a diary for like a decade from when I was about 10. And I would write in it every night. And I have so many journals and diaries at home.

4:48and then I sort of forgot about it and I was thinking like actually do kids know what they like really early on and then they kind of forget about it and then come back to it later and so I'm really trying to look in even in Wolf like what are the things that he's drawn to like I know I can tell he's really drawn to storytelling and stories and so I kind of am wondering if that might be in him as well but yeah I love writing and I think that it's I started writing books at a time in my life where I had just found myself and writing became a real anchor for me and a very like cathartic experience and it's definitely where I go into flow.

5:29I write the books that are really in line with the journey I'm on at the time. So I'm never writing them as a kind of finished article and I'm never, my message is never, I hope it never comes across as preachy. I want to feel like I'm really in it with people. And I think that I really draw on my own personal experiences and both with Manifest, Manifest Dive Deeper and then in Confidence, it really followed that journey. You know, I think for me, when I think about Confidence, which is my latest book that I just released, I had written Manifest and I'd had lots of success and my career had kind of blown up and it was so incredible.

6:14but I was still battling so deeply with this like chronic self-loathing and I it was just not enabling me to really enjoy the things that I had achieved and the life that I had created because the moment I was not working the minute I was kind of alone with myself I was just consumed with how much I hated myself and I think I just thought I will never be able to enjoy the kind of rewards of my manifestations if I don't really commit to this healing journey and so I went on my own kind of okay how can I apply this like step-by-step method that I used for manifestation but put it in a way that works for building confidence when confidence for me by the way is not about being extroverted it's not about being the loudest in the room it's about having this like truly unwavering self-worth of essentially just knowing that you are enough exactly as you are and I took myself on that journey and building confidence is definitely not an overnight thing you know it's ongoing and even in the sort of year since or just under a year since it's come out I've seen my confidence grow exponentially um so yeah but I don't think anybody's ever well they say you know I used to hate when people say you know healing's a lifelong journey and I'd be like what's the fucking point right but now I do really get it you know you are if once you get into the um once you become open to understanding yourself and to being aware of the patterns in your life your patterns of behavior your patterns of thinking uh what keeps showing up for you what triggers you what frustrates you what um once you become open to understanding those things and working on them you sort of then do it so naturally and it becomes so constant and you stop just accepting yourself as you are so let's say that you know I notice gosh this whenever I get emails like this it still really frustrates me it still makes me get really heated it still makes me want to react in a way that doesn't make me feel good yeah what is that you know why am I reacting like that I want to make sure I work on that and that is uh it's not about judging yourself and it's not about um kind of shaming yourself it's about being open to growing as a person and I think that's the best thing that we can all do is just want to grow I think awareness of those little moments is so powerful oh my god it is it really is and also we can have all those tools but life happens right like I know in the last year that you and Wade have now become co-parents yeah you know and when something like that happens it's knowing that you have those tools with you to maybe help you navigate it in a way that you wouldn't have done previously yes definitely you know me and Wade have sort of had quite an on-off journey over the seven years since we've known each other and when we had split previously during that kind of period of separation it there were periods where it was very toxic yeah you know it didn't feel good it was there were moments where we would get on great and be a family and moments where we just absolutely despised each other and it felt very uncomfortable and it was it's just horrible and this time we split you know last january we kind of realized we were approaching this seven years and we were like you know what we just have to break the cycle of this like on off and accept it's like we are just better off as friends um and it felt very final for both of us and there was a kind of liberation in that but i think we both really knew that we needed to make sure that we could do it differently and so we went straight to couples therapy and Paul Brunson actually very kindly recommended this incredible therapist she is so amazing and I don't think I know that I certainly wouldn't have been as open to couples therapy before but because I'd been working on myself and I could see the benefits I was like no this is absolutely what we need to do and I guess when a child's involved as well you know that you working as a couple is because the both of you have to find a way you have to find a way of moving forward whether you're together or not because you have a child exactly and I think that people sometimes think couple therapy is for staying as a couple for us it was actually for separating but in the healthiest way that we could yeah and the first few sessions you know we had a couple that were certainly uncomfortable and it felt like oh god this is make is this making things worse but actually you kind of like get it all out and have someone there to really support the boundaries the understanding of each other um and it's been invaluable for us and now we're in such a good place and I'm so pleased that's amazing it's amazing um do you feel like motherhood is an area that played with your confidence in any way I was tempted to say not your confidence but that's not what I did it play like because I think it puts you in a completely different place that you're unprepared for yeah so my journey if I could my journey with it's called a sudden in pregnancy because I've been on my own kind of confidence journey around motherhood yeah so when I found out I was pregnant I um me and Wade had only known each other three months and I found out I was two months pregnant and at the time that must have been quite a shock beyond actually let's go back okay because I know I've asked you a question but actually there's so much around this yeah so we'll ignore the fact that I okay if you're listening to it don't worry we'll get back to it um but let's go back to actually your family life yeah before that so I know that everything was happening um externally but in the home what was family life like when you were younger I was the youngest of four siblings What's that like being the youngest of four?

12:29Fantastic Is it? The youngest child is very much the youngest child the most spoiled, gets away with the most Yeah, so my oldest siblings are much older so I didn't really live with them and then I have a sister who was five years older than me that just thought I was so insanely annoying and actually it was a very lonely childhood there was no play um my dad was very uh he's on this was on the spectrum and was completely void of emotion so there was no how was your day there was no cuddles there was no love you there was nothing like that he would just be talking to me about quantum physics when I was like five um and my mom was in is incredible and very you know cooked for us all and was such a like home giver and but she had her own demons and mental health struggles so it was um without giving too much detail just an incredibly um unstable environment to live in and grow up in and um I can see how my childhood definitely resulted in all my addiction later on in life and impacted my kind of struggles with self-worth.

13:44Am I right in thinking you started taking cocaine at 17? Yes yeah and um yeah so I wouldn't say it was a particularly you know I said earlier I was very ashamed of my upbringing so I resented my home life and my parents were incredibly strict um so it was just yeah it wasn't. Isn't that interesting coming from such a strict family yeah to suddenly really rebelling? Yeah but isn't that so often the case? Oh yeah that's true. You know and it can go either way like my sister for example she's never drunk alcohol in her life was like would never go against my parents you know but that comes with its own kind of guilts and pressures and then me and my other sister were very rebellious really you know we both ended up taking drugs and drinking and addiction and um so yeah so so that was kind of my home life and then when I you know the kind of disordered eating at school was so normal you know I think especially growing up in the 90s when diet culture was mad oh my god I just I found like a piece of paper from me and my friend we were 14 it was like our diet plan but we had no idea about nutrition so it was like morning cup of tea piece of toast with sugary spread like what the fuck sugary spread on my diet plan we So me and one of my friends, we used to buy a bowl of chips and we would share it.

15:12They were the saltiest chips in the world. But we'd be like, and that's us. Isn't it crazy? The 90s were crazy. Oh, insane. Also, I just think the single most incredible marketing ploy of all time is that Special K diet. Yeah. If you eat us three times a day, you'll look great. I mean, it's genius. you can wear a red swimsuit like this um so yeah there was that and then I discovered alcohol and when I I discovered alcohol I liked it but then I tried cocaine and I think as soon as I tried cocaine I was like wow that's such a quick leap as well yeah because from 17 trying that so you'd not even been having alcohol really for that long in the lead up no I'd been having you know WKDs yeah yeah and feeling like fine sophisticated drinking it and then all of a sudden I'd gone up to London with a friend of mine who had friends in London and I went to an after party and I was offered a line and I was just instantly like this is incredible because it gave me this false sense of confidence something I had never experienced to that until that point and so it very quickly became addictive for me.

16:31And another reason why I think I clung on to it so much was because I wasn't a big drinker. Right. And so I hated the feeling of getting drunk and cocaine stopped that. You know, it made me feel this false sense of control. So I kind of very quickly went into this kind of world of drugs and alcohol. And by the time I was 21 or 22, I went to my first Narcotics Anonymous meeting. So you already knew that there was an issue with So I knew there was an issue because I started doing it on my own. I was becoming very, very erratic. If I didn't have it, it was just like I was just vulgar. It was just awful.

17:11That's quite a big thing to recognize in yourself that it is an issue, especially when you're 21 or 22. Yeah. And it's just kind of a part of... Well, you know, at 21, I ended up in a relationship with someone 25 years older than me. Right. And there was lots of it around. He was sober, but there was a lot of it around. And I think there was this kind of awareness that it could be a problem, but then it was also so normalized and glamorized. Was he sober because he was an addict? Because he had been an addict, yes. And so, I don't know, it was a strict... I definitely, like, the drug taking definitely accelerated from when I met him.

17:54Not because of him, but just at that time in my life. But the awareness that it can get so bad that someone then stops, has to, you know, go through motions for it not to be in their life anymore. Yeah. And it was, it was just not. So anyway, I went and tried to give up. It obviously didn't work. Because the problem is, if you go to Narcotics Anonymous, you're, everybody there at the time was addicted to crack or heroin. So I was like, I'm fine. I'm just just a bit of cocaine. Like, you know, so it's almost it was almost worse for me because it made it feel OK what I was doing. Yeah. And then when we broke up, I was so heartbroken.

18:33I basically then spent the next four or five years of my life because I then was heartbroken and then met another addict. And I couldn't tell you what I did with my life from 23 to just about to turn 28. Really? Yeah, I just went on. No, nothing. I just went on benders like three, four times a week. It was. Were you just constantly being invited to like different parties and stuff? Yeah, it was like I was part of this kind of like scene in London. Yeah. There was always someone different to do it with, but I was doing it. I'd always do it on my own before I went out. That was how I would get ready.

19:09That was, you know, someone might want to make them feel confident by putting on a nice outfit. For me, it was take a line of cocaine. And so I was incredibly depressed. Like, I hated myself more than I can say. I had so much shame. I was disgusted by myself. I was always on a comedown. Did your family around you recognise anything was going on? Yeah, so basically I had this thing I used to do where I would go out all night and then in the morning at like 8am when I'd get home, I'd take a Valium, get in a taxi and drive to my brother's house and get a taxi to my brother's house. After taking a Valium?

20:00Yeah, so I could sleep in the car. Right. I'd turn up at my brother's house. He had a newborn baby. And that was kind of like this safe haven. Because, you know, when a child makes a house feel like a home, do you know what I mean? I'd knock on the door. They'd let me in, make me a sandwich. I'd go out to bed, sleep all day. And they knew what was going on. And to be honest, they were so incredible. My siblings never, ever judged me. They never, they were so lovely and supportive. and my sister would always, like one of them, she would always talk me down. But, you know, I remember like both times my sister, Anna, who's five years older than me, both times she told me she was pregnant and having a baby, she told me at 9am and both times I was still awake at an after party, you know.

20:49Like it was so, it was just the way of my life. Yeah. And I tried to give up many times. Yeah. But if you're in that world as well and doing it with lots of different people, that's a lot of different circles that you have to say no to. And also everybody just normalises it. People will be like, oh, you're not waking up and drinking. You're fine. Like, don't be silly. Do you know what I mean? But it was just... You're just having fun. Yeah. You're too young for it to be. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's just, it is glamorised. It is so normal in big cities. Even though people don't talk about it openly, every so many people do it and make it normal yeah and um at any point did you look at your future and think what that would look like and think of yourself as a mum no I didn't and I guess if you don't know day to day you know you've not you've not got a structure yeah not got a a setup yeah you know it's really weird I remember and I only remember it recently when I was sort of in my late teens I remember thinking oh well I'm never going to be a mum because I was so void of emotion I was had closed my off and shut myself down so much I was like I'll never be a mum why would I want to be a mum like I can't imagine and then even seeing your siblings with their children at any point did that kind of make you go oh this is a possibility like the whole thing yeah new ball making it a home yeah I mean I remember when all my siblings had babies and I hadn't I felt really left out and I felt like gosh like I'm the only one without a child and nobody cares about my life because everybody just cares about the kids but I was obsessed with the kids like being in a very younger sibling yeah I was like what about me fucking spoiled brat I was.

22:46I really was. I really was. But I loved them. Like I was obsessed with being an aunt. I think whenever somebody says, oh, I've just become an aunt or an uncle, I'm like, oh my God, there's nothing better. Very lovely feeling, yeah. There is nothing. You just want constant updates. Like being with, oh my God, I feel so lucky to be an auntie to so many little like amazing humans. But seeing them at any point where you're like, this could be me. yeah I think I thought maybe but I thought not till I'm like mid-30s okay I was like great in the future but I was just so fucked up I mean I had I but one thing I did used to think was yeah I wish I'd be pregnant because I'd have a reason to give up because I'd be forced to give up drugs isn't that interesting like looking for that way yes I was like oh my god and I think I remember some nights you know when I'd be staring at the walls having taken so much drugs and that would be like my oh god if i like if i'm just pregnant you know it was just one of those passing thoughts is it strange looking back at that time because it's obviously so different to the life that you have now yeah you know i think like when people who know me like in this life let's say that i cannot imagine it is it weird if you bump into people that were from that life no because i do honestly this i go to events now let's say we go to the odd event and like every fucking person is still the same not that they're doing drugs but like you see all the same people yeah and I've not missed anything not going out for the last five years you still I was like I partied so much yeah and was out so much that even having been basically a recluse for the last five years I can still know half the room I socialized enough for like my whole lifetime um I think every so many people from that time now don't drink yeah I think there is such a shift in culture I think younger people are going to be so much less likely to drink and do drugs and all of that um so yeah no it's not weird I think um at the beginning it was I thought people aren't are going to think what the fuck is she doing now talking about wellness and mental health you know and there was that and there is that fear of and I think lots of people listening might have that if they're trying to embark on a new journey of a new career path or a new interest you know they think god what will other people think but I really just had to let that go because I knew it was time for me to make a change do you reckon why that's why you also highlight the fact that you're a student and teacher you know I mean to kind of go you know I being called an expert in something yeah being called a guru in something that's really quite yeah yeah whereas actually if you kind of go, actually, I'm learning too.

25:26Like, I'm trying to practice this. And so many people that I know who, you know, talk about manifesting or talk about different things that you know are helpful to their inner souls and their heads and stuff. So many of those people are on that journey because they are struggling to, you know, or trying to overcome or trying to find something that just steals the noise. I think most people who are in this field have had to have been through something themselves and I think that it's only through going some through something that you can feel the true like true compassion for other people and so I think it helps me feel more connected but as well I think that yes at the beginning by being able to kind of be like here's all my skeletons in my closet it's freeing right it's freeing and it also protected me from someone being like uh excuse me I saw you snorting lines of cocaine for toilet seat six months ago or a year ago whatever it was you know so there was probably some self-protection in that but also I've always been um of the kind of consensus that vulnerability is the only way we can truly connect with people and I've I've never struggled with being vulnerable with my yeah with anything that I'm going through because I think it's just part of the human experience and it's more I'm always so comforted when somebody shares honestly what they're going through because it makes me feel less alone and not that you ever want someone to go through it but we are all going through challenges and struggles and actually being open about it is so helpful yeah absolutely um I know that relationships before Wade weren't great and obviously I know that you're not together now but the early days of Wade he did something for you that no other partner had done before and it seems like there was a lot of care there we met on well he had messaged me on a dating app on the 7th of June on Raya yeah it was the fush one and then I have to say actually we then ended up meeting the founder of Raya that summer and we have a picture of him like ordaining us, like as a joke.

27:43Little did I know a few weeks later I'll be pregnant. They sent me a baby blanket when Wolf was born with Wolf embroidered on one side and Rhea simple on the other. Little Rhea baby. They're using that as one of their success stories. So he messaged me on this dating app. We met a few weeks later. He was from Australia. He'd been camping in a van for three months. That is who Wade is, right? He is just so loves nature and he had this like real love of life, simple joys, which I couldn't understand because I loved extremes. And I was secretly doing drugs for the first few dates and then eventually ended up obviously telling him and opening up to him and was like, I really do want to give up, but was struggling to.

28:37um so but we were just I don't know there was just this instant like the day I met him I was like oh my god the universe has like sent us to get like sent you to me and I've this is and within five days I mean it sounds fucking insane now within five days he basically was like I'm not going to get on a flight back to Australia and then just moved in with me and then after a couple of months he was like look I'm going to go back get my visa and I'll come back to the UK and the day he got back to the UK I found out I was pregnant talk me through that day okay so what did you have any symptoms so I we had been it we met in Dubai on his way back to the UK and that week I remember feeling just really flat and I thought why do I feel flat like I'm in a new relationship and I love the honeymoon period so I was like it's strange that I'm feeling flat and my boobs were massive but I was quite enjoying that and then I watched A Star Is Born and after I watched it I couldn't stop crying right and I said I don't know what it is Wade I just feel like I'm going back to London and I've left behind my old life I don't know what why it must have been this instinctive knowing but I thought it was because I was trying to give up drugs yeah but I was still smoking like 25 cigarettes a day at this point as well gosh even like smoking just feels so alien doesn't it no doesn't it I mean I was fag-ashed ill like first thing in the morning first first thing coffee and a cigarette I smoke every a cigarette every 30 minutes no yeah I was absolutely I just loved it so much really yeah Camel blues.

30:25So. You got back to London. Got back to London. We met my sister and her kids for lunch. And I was like, I just don't feel like myself. At no point did you kind of go, oh, maybe. So I had had the coil, the Marina coil for like 10 years. And so I'd never got a period. And so I had had it taken out. And I was Googling, when do you get your period again after Marina coil? so I had no inclination because I thought it just hadn't come back plus a new relationship you're having all the sex all the sex yeah okay you know and I was just like whatever didn't think anything of it my sister's like are you sure you're not pregnant I was like of course I'm not pregnant she was like just take a test we went into Sainsbury's we go home and I thought fuck it We've got all the shopping and I'm in the loo and I look and I just scream out.

31:21What does the crest mean? What does the crest mean? I just hear like, you're pregnant. And I was like, no. And I come out and I burst into tears and I get a cigarette and just immediately have a cigarette. And poor Wade is like thrilled. he was so fucking happy and I'm like this is the worst thing ever but the reason I was so upset was because I knew I was going to keep it like there was no thought to me that I wouldn't because I knew Wade would be such an incredible dad and I ended up having to go to the Michael McIntyre show that night and I just was like crying the whole way and I made my sister leave in half time because I just can't, there's no laughter in me right now.

32:12My life is over. And I really, it basically what happened is it just went downhill from there. Really? So if you imagine that at that point in my life, I've met a man that essentially I don't really know. I have really bad avoidancy and commitment issues. So I immediately think, well actually I hate him and I don't want to be with him and this isn't who I want to have a baby with and he's got no money and I've got no money at this point this is not what I I was just trying to learn to manifest this is not what I fucking manifested um we ended up doing like three car boot sales of like all my possessions um throughout the pregnancy because I was like I don't know how I'm going to have to afford to just like do this.

33:04But I'm also an addict. And so I suddenly have to, a week in, I have to give up smoking. I went to a hypnosis. I have to give up drugs, alcohol, everything that has masked all my pain.

33:24How did you go about that though? So was it a case of, I know I'm pregnant? And also looking back at what had happened in that eight weeks prior. I know that so many of us go, oh God, I went on that bender before, you know. Yeah. You know, and also then do you go cold turkey? Yeah. I mean, the drugs and alcohol was cold turkey. Actually, I did drink a little bit of wine in between. Yeah. Like I had the odd glass here and there. Which I think is okay now. Yeah. My sisters and brothers are all doctors. Yeah. So they're all like, it's fine. Like the odd one, it doesn't matter. But I kind of gave up that cold turkey.

33:58The cigarettes I had to wind down over a week. Did your brother and sisters help you with knowing how to come off things? Or were you just sort of working out yourself? No, I was just like, I'm on this. The cigarettes took me, like I say, a week. But then it was cold turkey, but it was excruciatingly hard. Yeah. It was hard on so many levels because firstly, all my emotional pain came out. I had horrendous prenatal depression. I was, every day was like being in a mental prison. It was like, I can't describe the agony I felt internally. The self-hatred. I started binge eating. it was my replacement for drugs I gained five stone I stopped leaving the house for the last six from for the last six months because I uh basically I mean this is a whole other story but I'd suffered from uh body dysmorphia disorder for most of my life um which is a form of OCD so an OCD is like a repetitive behavior um body dysmorphia disorder is like a repetitive thought and it's like very very intrusive and it's an anxiety disorder and for me it was all about my face so it wasn't actually well although it's called body dysmorphia disorder it can be about anything to do with your appearance but I was absolutely convinced that I was a grotesque monster and that if anybody saw me they would be so horrified that I would be just like so awful so imagine being revolted by something yeah I was revolted when I looked in the mirror a true feeling of like disgust and so I stopped leaving the house because people cannot look at me um but what I recognize now is the reason it had got so bad was because it wasn't being masked by drugs so this time of my life was um I think the most traumatic I've ever experienced yeah and well you've got all that stuff going on and I've heard you actually I listened to on the mend that You're a reporter with Matt Willis, who's a great friend.

36:10And I heard you on that saying that so often all you wanted was a line. Oh, my God. And I imagine if all those thoughts are coming out that are usually masked by the drugs, you want the thing that is going to help you keep masking up. You have no idea. I used to try and convince myself, like, if I just have one night while I'm pregnant, like, would that be so bad? you know and of course and thank god i found the strength to not but christ that was hard like really i was not prepared for how difficult that would be and i kept thinking i just want this baby out so i can just go and get fucked up it's all i could focus on and i was not connected to wolf at all really i named him when i was 13 weeks pregnant because i needed to try and connect but i just couldn't I just thought this thing this has done this to me it's it's ruined my life in that time I just thought I'm so unhappy and it's because of this baby and I'm I was it was so sad that I couldn't I really look back and I wish I could have enjoyed it what if you could go back and speak to yourself at that point like or like what would you what advice would you give what would you do for that person?

37:35There was honestly nothing anyone could do. I'd love to say I could say there was nothing. Everybody tried, you know, Wade, God bless him. You know, he was going through his own time with it. It was just very fucking dark. But do you feel now a reflection that it was a time that you had to go through? Absolutely. What happened was I immersed myself in self development so I started reading every book that I could listening to podcasts going on long walks and I made a vow to myself that when I have this baby I am going to make my life as good as it can be and I'm going to create a foundation for me and Wolf and really you know when I gave birth to Wolf I also gave birth to a new version of myself you know and I always think that like Wolf is like my lucky charm in life because every good thing that's ever happened to me has come since he came along and I think that you know it wasn't it wasn't a case of I had a wolf and then everything was great I had wolf and I was I really struggled to connect um were you surprised by that or were you expecting it I think I was expecting it because I was in such a dark place and I had no love for myself so how on earth could I love anything else even my own son at that point and I remember when I gave birth it was a really long 36 hour labor and once I'd given birth I sort of just handed him to Wade I was I just can't I feel sick I feel I just have nothing and it took me it took me a A few months, I would say, to connect.

39:22But then once I did, it was fucking magical. Was that even hard to come to terms with, though? The fact that I think we have these ideals of what it will be like when we first meet our child, what those first few months will be like. And the reality is, for a lot of people, it is a mess. It is a mess. Like, you know, even, you know, without everything else that was going on for you, it is that thing of your life has changed. Yeah. For everyone who becomes a mum for the first time, your life is completely different. You suddenly have all these responsibilities. Your body is not your own. You know, you can no longer do stuff that is just for you and there is a transition within that.

40:03Yeah. But it's hard to come to terms with when you're in it and no one's warned you, that you don't know that this is going to happen. Yeah. Look, I think I'm lucky that I had seen eight births before me and my sisters and brothers. So I had I was prepared in a way. But I remember I just kept thinking, oh, my God, you don't get a fucking day off now. It's not like you get annual leave from this. Like that freaked me out. And I think that was this feeling of this foreverness felt really overwhelming. Yeah. But Wade was an amazing dad from day one. And he was so supportive. And he I couldn't have really got through it without him.

40:44and he was absolutely incredible. But what actually came out, and I'll go back to that question on confidence because I'd lost a lot of confidence during the pregnancy. Well done, you're tying it all together. You're saving Alex, the producer, a massive job. Well done.

41:05But once I found that spark, being a mother has given me more confidence than anything else in my life. when I consider if I I think that in life we are so many different versions of ourselves so who we are with our friends each or one of our individual friends each one of our family members our colleagues we are a different version of ourselves with each of those people and I always say to people like try and consider who is the best version of you the best me is the me as a mom it is where I am the most patient the most loving the most playful the most present the most nurturing and that helped me find a version of me to love knowing that that does exist yeah yeah there and it's still to this day is my best me and my bond with wolf is just like so beyond anything I could have ever dreamed of can you remember when that started seeping in yeah Wade had gone away when he was three months old for three months and so it was just me and Wolf that's an intense thing to kind of yes it's us for three months and I think that was it it just cemented it and do you think part of that is not having that other person to kind of run things by like having to go I am the one with the decisions yeah I'm the one with the answers to everything that's going on here yeah I'm the only one that can do anything and therefore that I can remember second guessing everything, kind of turning to Tom and being like, do you think?

42:40Whereas actually, if you're just left alone with it sometimes, maybe that does force you to kind of just go, this is what I'm doing. Yeah, 100%. I mean, I remember someone asking me something like, I can't remember when it was or what the context was, but someone asked me, like, can he have this milk? And I just thought, oh, my God, I make the decisions and I am in charge of keeping him happy and safe and healthy. And it felt so like, oh, my God, yeah, this is my role now. I mean, obviously, you were gunning towards the end of the pregnancy. You wanted him out so that life could resume. Yes. How did that feel once he was out?

43:23How did you feel about that side of your life? so oh I don't know if I've shared this before so when I was about six weeks no can't have been that soon when I was about eight weeks in I breastfed I think for six weeks for three weeks and then I expressed for three weeks and I was done I really I didn't enjoy it I knew I wouldn't enjoy it um I it just wasn't for me yeah and I think you know I remember knowing that there were going to be lots of people who would say you know if you have the capabilities you should be doing it but I've always just been like nobody should do anything everybody should do what is right they feel right is for them what they feel is right for them and so I made a decision to um stop at six weeks and then at eight weeks I went on a night out and I'd been so like I'm gonna get back into it was there anticipation around that was like having that date in the diary yeah yeah that is the day that I'm going to go and get fucked up.

44:24Absolutely, yeah. And I remember thinking that wasn't worth it. Really? Yeah. And that was kind of it. Really? Yeah. And then what happened was I found a purpose. And once I had a purpose, which was actually not just being a mother, but finding a career and wanting to help other people. Once I had that, there was something more important than drugs. There was something to wake up for. Well, the pregnancy and prenatal depression, that really forced you to look at and address so much. Yeah. So at the end of that, you'd kind of surely, knowing that there's another way, knowing that all that is there, it's like opening Pandora's box you can't just squeeze it all back in and shut it like it's there now you know what it is yeah yeah so being able to look at it exactly and I think that you know once you go on start the journey you just you yeah like you say it's not like you go back and I think um I had this real gift which is that a week before I found out I was pregnant I decided to start something on my social media called Agni on Sundays.

45:47So I had like 15 ,000 followers or something at the time. And I had always loved helping people. Like I really enjoyed giving people advice. I was always a little bit like wise beyond my years. And so I thought, you know, why don't I just do an Agni on Sundays and people can just ask me questions and I'll give them advice. And I started a week before I found out. And so when I was going through the darkness of my depression, I had this kind of like thing every Sunday where I could help other people. And it became the kind of like purpose that kept me going through the week. And what was so glorious about it was not only did I feel like, my God, I can be of service.

46:34Maybe I am of some value. But also it just got me out of my head. You know, when you are doing something for other people, you don't have time to focus on your own self-loathing. And so I think from then I knew. And then I remember watching Brené Brown's Call to Courage. And I was like, I want to be on stage. And that's when I knew what I wanted to do. It's amazing. It's such a leap as well. And to be doing it literally months after giving birth. Yeah. When really you're in your own journey with it, but you're still like at the start of it. You know what I mean? Yeah, five months in, I hosted my first workshop when Wolf was five months.

47:12How did that feel? It was so cute when I look back on it. It was so cringe. I was not ready at all. But also not being with a bunch of people, being the party girl, being the one that's got to be, you know, being a certain way, actually being in that room with a different purpose and with depth and meaning. Yeah, it was really special. I mean, as soon as I mean, I it's when they say I say I say I wasn't ready just because I wasn't. And like, if I look back now, oh, my God, God bless. But everyone's got to start somewhere. Exactly. And you don't wait till you're ready. And that should be anyone listening.

47:52Do not wait for this imaginary moment. Like, just fucking do it. Yeah. Like you've got to like you've got to learn somehow. And that's what I did. And as soon as I started, I knew this is what I'm supposed to do from here on. really yeah and it was kind of magical and then you know a few months later I came out with my seven step guide to manifesting it's amazing yeah it's so incredible to think that like you said it's almost like the rebirth of you like not only on that day did you birth wolf but it was actually a new version of you yeah it was and for me there is life before wolf and life after wolf yeah yeah He's like my Jesus.

48:33What is it? BCAC or something? I don't know.

48:40I love this. I love this. I mean, what have you taken from motherhood? Because obviously if you didn't know what to expect beforehand because your head wasn't going there, what is it that motherhood has taught you? Oh.

48:59Very good question. Oh, I'm really stumped for words. I don't know if it's so much what it's taught me, but what it brings me, which is a unique opportunity to really be present. and it's taught me I don't know I find being a mother very healing because I'm constantly thinking about what my life was like at his age and how that must have impacted me and how I want to break generational cycles and do things better and give him a better opportunity to become as confident as he can but I mean parenting's a I mean I'd love your advice because I have this thing which I really struggle with because I think I'm so I'm very I'm just a fucking pushover right like I'm just the worst like I have no authority with him which is funny because at work I'm like quite type a but also you come from a family though they're quite strict yes and I'm like the opposite with him like he just has me I'm just weak and um you know where's the balance of wanting to give him, like, freedom to emotionally express himself, but then also not, but then I want to also give him resilience.

50:21Yeah. And I don't think I'm building resilience in him. He's still very young. Yeah, he's six. Yeah, you're okay. Do you think? Yes. Okay, good. I think the most important thing you can do is simply be there, model, talk about things in an age-appropriate way, but I think it sort of, it comes. and each child is different I would say one of mine it was later on they started being able to actually label emotions because that's one thing that everyone always says about labelling but I mean he's just got to roll with it and not panic you're present, you're there, he's surrounded by love yeah he is he is cute he's like a little grown up he likes coming to work with me and he's very like oh yeah I'm a bit nervous about tomorrow like he really knows he knows every feeling but the fact that he can label that and talk to you about that that's incredible resilience is something that is built again it's not like confidence you can't give confidence overnight and I suppose you know we don't need to give our kids challenges because life's going to bring enough of them anyway yeah absolutely all you can do is give them the tools to deal with things but as things happen in life that's when you learn.

51:37Yeah, that's true. If you could write a letter on motherhood, who would it be to and what would you say?

51:49I would write a letter to every mother.

51:57And I suppose I would say what I want to say to all women in general, which is that I hope that they all realize that they are enough as they are. And I think that we are all born full of confidence and knowing our worth. And then life happens to us. And somewhere along the way, we essentially all come to believe one thing, which is that we are not enough as we are. And then we spend the rest of our lives compounding that belief and molding ourselves to be what we think everyone else wants us to be. And we lose ourselves in that journey. And what I hope that everybody listening and every mother and every person realizes is that we can find our way back to that version of us that was born into this world.

52:54You know, I'm sure how many parents listening to this have seen their kids dressed up as Elsa in the supermarket. They don't care who's looking. They just turn up as whoever they want to be that day. That's how we were and that's how we should be. So I hope everyone finds the tools and commits to the healing to help them get back there. If someone is listening to this and they are having a moment, I think moments come in motherhood and they are feeling like they aren't enough, like they are at their lowest. what would you say to that mum in terms of starting to build that confidence you know what is that first step because sometimes and this is genuinely what I do think is is great about about you because you're on that journey still do you know what I mean and I think that sometimes when you just see the and why I've loved this chat when you just see the finished product it's really hard to go but that is miles away yeah yeah i'm here and i'm stuck in the depths and i cannot see a way of getting there you know and actually by you being so open and honest today i i genuinely feel that that is something that me as an individual can lean into more yeah know i mean like sometimes it's when my watch sometimes tells me you know be more mindful I'm like fuck off I know I should be pissed off right now you know what I mean whereas actually I think maybe it's because I lean into experiences more yeah so what would you say to that mum who's just in it yeah well I think the first thing I would say is that you are enough but you're just overwhelmed and I think sometimes what we forget is that overwhelm and exhaustion can completely blind us and it blinds us to seeing the beauty in our life to seeing the beauty in ourselves and I mean skin deep um it puts this sort of haze on the lenses that we're viewing the world through and you can't see anything clearly.

55:12So the first thing is to take a step back and see where you can ask for help and where you can find even 30 minutes for yourself. I always say to my sister, you know, she's got three, we don't need much. If we have two hours to ourselves, how different do we feel? And I think that there is such a sense of like guilt and pressure that we put ourselves under that as women we should be able to do it all we have to do it all yeah if we don't do it someone else will fuck up um I think there can be this you know thinking well I might as well just do it myself because I'm you know if somebody cleans your kitchen and you think well I'm just going to clean it again myself after because no one can do it right you know and I think um so yeah the first thing would be to just ask for help find a way to take even 30 minutes for yourself a 30 minute bath a two-hour window where you could go for a walk um and then find and use small tools to start you on the journey.

56:27So one tool you could use is to do a really simple gratitude practice. So I've got a really great one that I absolutely love. So gratitude is sort of the anchor of all self-development, I think, you know, it is going to impact. And I know the question was about confidence and you think, well, how does gratitude come into that? But gratitude changes our whole perspective on the entire world including the way that we see ourselves and for me if you wanted to find and I use this tool because it's for a busy mother who's in it I could say to you look I want you to start meditating I want you to start breathing I want you to start journaling and there's going to be like I just have time for all of that right but here's just one thing you can do that will take you two minutes a night that will at least get you to the point where you can then start doing other stuff.

57:26Okay, so every evening, I want you to write down a positivity journal. And I just want you to jot down all the small, little, beautiful, ordinary moments of the day, all the small moments of joy. And so it might be the sun was shining, I managed to have my morning coffee and it tasted good. My son or daughter smiled at me and gave me the warmest cuddle um all these little ordinary moments and what you will notice and include in that moments that you're proud of yourself for you know I managed to clear make my bed today I managed to get myself showered and my children fed yeah you know all your small wins um I managed to get the kids to school on time, whatever it is.

58:18And what you will notice is that each day is filled with beautiful moments, ordinary moments of joy. And when we are in it and when we are overwhelmed with stress, we can just write off the whole day. Oh, today was such a tough day. It was another challenging day. This encourages us to realize that even on challenging days, there are still so many incredible moments and it also helps us to romanticize our life a bit right you know i think when you're especially when you're a new parent and you're in so in it um everything feels like a slog and a mundane there's like a mundane feeling to life yeah like monotonous yeah and And actually, this reminds you that you can find so much incredible beauty in the ordinary.

59:13And it reminds me of this book that I read called Regrets of the Dying. And the author interviewed all these incredible people who are at the end of their lives. and they all spoke of the things that they would miss and they were always the ordinary moments. You know, hearing their kids come home at the end of the day or, you know, anything that was ordinary and mundane was what they were going to miss the most. And I guess actually in making that gratitude list, you are actually, you're sort of grounding yourself within those moments when they do, like whatever happens next, it kind of, I wonder if it kind of, the more you do it as those moments happening, you recognize them more.

1:00:05So it makes you kind of breathe different. I don't know which in turn will give you confidence if confidence is so linked to grounding. So what you do when you do this exercise is you start to train your brain to focus its attention on the good in your life. so you will see an improvement in your sleep quality um a decrease in anxiety uh dr joe dispensed an experiment which found that gratitude strengthens your immune system by 50 percent um your self-perception will change in self-concept so everything will start to just feel a little bit lighter and from that lightness then you can start doing the other things um that will help I love that.

1:00:48You're also talking, you're also working with People's Pension. Yes. Talk to me. So People's Pension did a pension drop campaign. And what they found was that that half of people are now have a lot of fear around the future. And I think that for me, when I think about manifestation, there are two things that really block manifestation. That is fear and doubt. And so how can we start to actually work on removing that fear around our future so that we can start thinking about things, even like retirement? OK, so for I think six out of 10 people don't save enough for retirement, which is crazy. And retirement like, you know, before you'd think of retirement, you thought, well, I just don't think about that.

1:01:36that's when I'm practically dead right but it's not the same now because we're living so much longer and we care about more about longevity and we live well and actually we want to get to a place where we can retire and spend time with our families and enjoy them and enjoy everything that's ahead of us and so what people's pension found was that these really small changes and committing to small habits can make all the difference. And, you know, this is something that I share in all my work of manifestation. If we just make a few small changes, whether it's adding a gratitude practice, something like that, we can really make a difference.

1:02:15So when it comes to thinking about retirement, for example, if you just first do a future visualization, so I actually uploaded a meditation on their website, where you can visualize not just you one year or five years from now but who is the you in retirement which could be at 55 or 60 where are you I am somewhere hot yes I am somewhere hot in a caftan oh yes I am yeah drink in hand yes non-alcoholic by that point we're all non-alcoholic we are yep yep um so you can use that as a way to help you and then you can start thinking what can I do now to help me get there so I actually personally cannot believe I only started contributing to my pension two years ago really and I didn't realize how tax efficient it was like it's incredible but for anybody listening like really actually set down you know 20 30 minutes every six months or every quarter and just think what can I afford to put into my pension if you get a pay rise can you increase that slightly it's a really small change you can make but it's so important and something we do need to think about do you think having that pot and therefore that plan helps people worry less because actually there's a plan in place there's a plan in place and also there's this compound effect so actually the earlier you start the better because it the the savings accumulate and it has this compound interest kind of in it and um it's just you know i think manifestation is about knowing what you want whilst being present you know and grateful for all that you already have but planning for the future is absolutely a part of the process that's a really interesting thing that i've never thought about before the fact that with manifesting you always have to be looking at the want but do you all i think it's so important in life to kind of look at what you've done you know what I mean what have what have we created I guess that's where gratitude comes in as well like the gratitude part of it is this is this is where we are and isn't this great but also let's look at where we want to how we want to build exactly well it's like step five of my seven step guide to manifesting is gratitude and in it that's why I say that the manifesting sweet spot know what you want whilst being grateful that you have because you know I always say to people because when it comes to manifesting like manifesting your goals won't make you happy yeah Right.

1:04:44Because what makes you happy is being able to be appreciative of the life that you already have, of the small moments. And it's actually why self-development in a healing is also important, because what often happens is we attach to a goal and we think when I reach that goal, then I'll be happy. Yeah. Then I'll feel enough. Then I'll feel validated. Then I'll feel successful. but we know that's not true because how many goals have you reached and it's made you feel good for about five minutes and then you've made a new goal yeah if you don't heal and actually learn to enjoy the journey and the present moment it doesn't matter what goal you reach it will never be enough to fill that void but if you learn the art of appreciation the art of gratitude if you learn to feel enough as you are today then when you reach those goals you are going to enjoy them so much more you know you'll actually be in it and it won't feel empty yeah i love that we end the podcast with you completing three sentences yes the first one is being a mum means being a mum means being the most loving patient nurturing version of yourself that you can be since having a child i have never been happier and i'm happy when i'm with wall truly he is my happy place roxy thank you so much thank you thank you pleasure to talk to you You're amazing.

1:06:29I'm obsessed with you. You're so lovely. And I'm so honoured to be on the pod. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you for being so honest and open. It's honestly the best. Thank you.

1:06:58Thank you.