Giovanna Fletcher: A Little Reassurance for the Summer Holidays

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1:08Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum. It is the summer holidays! I say that like it's a very joyous thing. It is a joyous thing, obviously. But hands up if you are feeling a little bit frazzled already from the amount of snacks that you've been asked for. Every day, they've just finished breakfast. Can I have a snack? They've just finished lunch. Can I have something to eat? They've just finished dinner. Is there anything else? Oh my Lord! So much food has been eaten already. However, can I just say that, I mean, I love a bit of routine, but there is something so glorious about our mornings not starting with the panic of trying to get everyone ready for school.

1:51We can be a little bit breezy, and I like being a little bit breezy. It can be really easy to start comparing yourself when you see other families out and about or on Instagram when they're having these gorgeous days out and you wonder if you're doing enough or making the most of it. But behind the scenes, everyone is navigating their own challenges, even Keira Knightley. When she came on the podcast last year, she spoke so refreshingly about sleep deprivation and just getting through one day at a time. That's one of the things I love about these conversations. No matter who I'm talking to, there's nearly always a moment when they say something that makes me think, oh, I really needed to hear that.

2:29So here's the first little reminder I'd love to leave you with this summer. Sometimes the goal isn't to thrive, it's simply to get through. The only word I can find is mad. I think I was mad for about five years. I think sleep deprivation makes you go mad and it's only when it finishes and you can suddenly look and you're like, oh my God, I mean, my emotions were up. Here, you know, and my bandwidth for dealing with things was like this big, you know. So it was sort of, I could kind of go in a straight line, I could learn the words, I could do the thing, but it was like gripping on with fingernails, you know.

3:01So it's night and day if you have a sleeper. And it's having something that's completely out of your control as well. You know, you're able to, before becoming a parent, control things to a certain extent. You can control, you know, how you sleep. You can control so much and then all of a sudden. Or if you don't sleep, it's the really stupid one. I love it when I hear people say this. It's like, oh my God, you know, I've been a partier since whatever. I know what no sleep is like. And I'm like, bless you. Oh, no, you don't. Yeah, I think just that never being able to catch up. And I think literally when she started going to nursery when she was three, that was when I could finally actually sleep.

3:38Because up until then, I wasn't napping. I was working all day. I mean, not all the time. But, you know, I was definitely not napping during the day. So it was a really interesting thing. It feels like your body just, your body does what it needs to protect you, doesn't it? Maybe. Maybe. I'm basing that on nothing other than my own experience so maybe it doesn't but that's what it felt like to me I used to, when the kids all well, when it was daytimes and I knew I shouldn't be napping, I used to go and nap in their bed because it used to make me feel less guilty. Oh, that's an interesting one Yeah, that's like...

4:08Because I got back into my bed it made me feel a bit... No, like I'm being lazy Yeah. Yeah, no, do you know, I never slept in my bed, that's interesting, it's always on the sofa. So I'd be sat there kind of going, oh no, I'm sure I'm reading a script or doing something and just like, you know, have curled up and suddenly would wake up and it would be the end of the day. I'd hear Tom in his music room sometimes playing something on the piano and all of a sudden it would stop and I'd go in to his office and he'd literally be starfished on the floor, just completely wiped out. There is nothing that sleep deprivation.

4:39And it's also the, and you see, look, I'm completely through it. They both sleep. They're 10 and 6. I see two of my best friends, they both happen to have two-year-olds right now. And neither of them sleep through the night. And it's the look, the panic, the panic. And people say, oh, you know, it's just being a mum. And you're like... And I just remember reading articles at the time of being like, how important sleep is. You must get your eight hours. And being like, fuck you. I would like to. I am trying talk to her

5:21but that's another pressure isn't it all those things we're told that we should be doing how am I meant to fill this into my day how am I meant to sleep when I've got a child who doesn't sleep and doesn't seem to find it a problem that she doesn't sleep but doesn't sleep

5:37it's such a particular form of torture torture torture and the panic in in parents eyes and you just now having come through the other side it will end yeah but when I say when my kid was five it doesn't make anyone feel any better it's like especially my friends are two-year-olds hey don't worry you've got another three years to go it's gonna be all right I have a lot of gray hair but it's gonna be all right and people mean to be helpful but they go have you tried a sleep routine? And you literally want to I mean I've never felt rage like the have you tried a sleep routine. Have you just tried putting her to bed later?

6:26You think I haven't tried all of the things. You know. I think they come out the way they come out. You know, you get a sleeper, you don't get a sleeper. I feel actually very fortunate that we got the non-sleeper first. That's true. Because there was at no point going into the second one that we thought we were good parents. We hadn't made that mistake of going, God, we're really good at this. You know, we were just like, oh. Yeah, and then just happened to get the I like sleeping one. Amazing. And can I just say, for all of the people out there, parenting is easier if you have the sleeping child.

7:07Yeah, absolutely. Like 100 % if you've had a night's sleep, you can deal with anything during the day. If you have not, everything is hard. And that is not your fault. I feel very important, like it's very important to say that. Because, you know, I remember at the time looking at mates with babies who slept and they were so glorious. They were dressed well. They looked great. They were having a lovely mother and baby time. You know, it was all lovely. And you're sitting there going, look, I'm so lucky. My daughter is sensational. She's all of the wonderful things. But I'm in pieces. And how are these women not in pieces?

7:47You know, and you go, you're not in pieces because you haven't slept in. How does it feel like looking back at that version of you and kind of going, fuck? Did you feel like you could talk to people and go, this is hard? I'm really lucky. I had a couple of really good friends. And also my mum had two non-sleepers. So you were one of them. Yeah. My brother for six years and me for two. Okay. So you didn't deserve five years. I didn't deserve five years. I think actually maybe I'm lying about two. Maybe it was a bit longer. Actually, no, do you know what? I'm lying because I always used to get up in the middle of the night and I distinctly remember I would get up in the middle of the night.

8:22Their room was on the top floor. We were in the middle. I'd get up. My dad, literally not even awake, would get up and he'd go down and he'd finish the night in my bed and I would be up there in my mum's bed. and that was until I was six. So actually me saying, so, okay, I didn't sleep. I'm just like, I didn't. Retract. Retract. So they had two kids that didn't sleep until they were six. And when I did get, when I told my dad that I was pregnant, he went, comeuppance.

8:55And he might have had a point. I was like, all right. Was there a point within that five years where you kind of felt worried that it would never end. Yes. Especially if you're feeling that anger and that kind of... Yeah, I mean, yeah, you do. Because it, yeah, it feels... That kind of sleep deprivation feels endless. And therefore that kind of, within your own brain, sort of feeling like somebody's putting their nails down a blackboard. You know, that kind of thing. Because you don't know when it's going to end. Yeah. and and you know and and it becomes your life right it becomes so you become and you also think am I always going to be this short-tempered are we always going to meet this you know and and everything I mean I think from the birth my body didn't heal very quick you know there was I mean actually it was very straightforward but I got induced and then I took all the drugs did then tear so had stitches but the healing was really it really but you're like of course you're not gonna heal you haven't there's no chance to take a breath there's no chance to heal yeah right you're just on it from the moment they come out like you are on it yeah i mean it's not the best place to have stitches to be fair it's not it's just sitting down and chilling out i mean it it's for anything for anything you know it is not ideal if you're moving it's just not anything looking after a child the whole time you know i mean it's not it's not ideal i remember walking at various times and just feeling like something had been caught.

10:29Oh, that. Oh, my God. Yeah, not great. Oh, my God. Not great. And the pads and the thing and the... Oh, God. I mean, it's so awful. It's so awful. And people going, God, you must be so happy. And you're like... Have you tried ripping open your vagina recently? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not that happy. Like I said, refreshing. Before we become parents, it's so easy to imagine what we'll do, what we won't do, and the kind of parent we want to be. Then a baby arrives and everything changes. It can be really easy to feel judgment and compare yourself to everyone else. I remember thinking about this a lot after I spoke to Lucy Watson back in 2025.

11:11So time for your second truth. The most important thing is finding what works for you and your family without worrying what everyone else thinks. I did go through an identity crisis because I was like, you have a baby and you can't, your life completely changes. You now dedicate pretty much all of your life to your child. And of course, now I have that balance. But I think for the first eight weeks, I was all in. I was exclusively breastfeeding. I was just like there for my child and just not really sleeping and all the things that everyone does. um so but when I got to sort of eight weeks I started pumping and that changed my life because my husband could then feed my baby or our baby and not only my husband you know my mom or his mom or whatever and that made and it's just it's just like kind of just taking the steps isn't it but you are different and I don't think you'll ever be the same I think that the the fact that you will never be the same again is only ever a positive yeah this is I always say yeah you can't go through those monumental moments in life and stay the same was what was your journey with your body like because you touched on there about how you know that first looking in the mirror and kind of going oh gosh what is this at what point did you kind of start did you start embracing your body and your new body or feeling more like yourself again um because I think that whole snapback thing that whole kind of looking at people on instagram thing is so unhelpful because we don't know what happens behind the picture or how much that person might be crying before they took that picture or after it or exactly if i'm honest being completely candid here i don't think i've yet got to a point where i look at my body and think that's me kind of really not yet and it's been nearly two years since i got pregnant yeah so But I think that is partly because I just haven't yet started working out again.

13:14And I used to work out all the time. And I keep saying, I'm going to get into it. I'm going to get into it. And I think when I do do that, I think I will feel... But then I'll look at your photos on Instagram and be like, well, I never look like that pre-kids. So it's all about where you are, what you know, what I mean, and how you feel. But also Instagram is a representation that you are in control of, like you said earlier. like you control the angles and the images that you post and I think a part of what is on my mind at the moment is more not what's on the outside more on the inside and I don't feel physically fit right that's something that I think is bothering me at the moment and it's it's just like a more health thing I just I know I mean I run I ran to the gym the other day which is maybe a couple hundred meters from my apartment and I was like about to have cardiac arrest always really humbling moments like that i was like i couldn't breathe before i even started this class i was about to do and i think i was looking at me like is she gonna make it through the class um but there are changes with your whole body and you know not only just like your stomach and everything but like you know your boobs you're putting on you're changing cup size all the time and that can be weird too and it's just part and parcel again where is that salary at for the moment where is the salary when it comes to the last year of motherhood has it been what you thought it would be no because I don't think you can ever really know what you're getting yourself into when you have a child you never know what it's going to be like until you do it and And there's so many things, and I'm going to be completely candid here, when I'm in the lead up to being a mum, I feel like I've fully judged other mums on so many decisions.

15:09Well, let's talk about, so at the start we talked about dummies. Yes. What was your stance on dummies before we had a baby? Yeah. My child will never have a dummy. So bad for their teeth. Yeah, no. Two weeks in I was like, where's the dummy? Which tummy branch are we trying? but there is that isn't it I think before you're in that situation you can kind of look on and go god no but actually it's only when you're in it that you can really make a decision you can't judge any mother on their decisions until you've walked you know in their shoes and even then you shouldn't judge unless someone's being actually abusive so yeah there were so many things and I'm sure so many people were like yeah you just wait when I say well I'm never going to do this I'm never going to do that And then it's like when you're actually in it, you're just trying to survive.

16:00And, you know, whatever methods you think are suitable and what you think is right for your child changes when your child is there. Yeah. Before you don't really have those instincts. Instincts come into play. Yeah. Once, you know, I didn't think I'd be I didn't think I'd even the thought of breastfeeding. I was like, no. Really? Yes. So what changed? I don't know. I had my baby and it just it just felt like a natural instinct. Did it just sort of happen then? No it didn't happen it was like a real have to commit to this because this is like physical mental battle for me it was not enjoyable natural anything that I thought it was going to be.

16:39But you're just part of you had that urge to sort of try and and to persevere. I just knew that he really wanted it and I just set myself the challenge of doing it and I think I wanted to do it i really wanted to do it and it was i always said to my sister in the lead up to giving birth i was like i just don't think i could breastfeed but like i could pump yeah and i could give my baby the milk that way but like breastfeeding i don't know what was her response she was like so you're gonna pump every single time and you're gonna like clean the palm and like sterilize she wasn't she didn't like say anything she was like okay yeah okay cool and i know she was thinking to herself you're never gonna do that that's gonna be so time consuming and you're just gonna want to you know whack you'll be about and feed that you know in the middle of the night when you're exhausted you're not going to reach for your pump and try and do that and fair play to people who do because I know there are people who do do that and that's amazing but I was too exhausted and it felt it you know you do get oxytocin when you're breastfeeding so that your body does kind of there is a part of a hormonal response that actually enjoys it as well how long did your breastfeeding journey last?

17:48I'm still breastfeeding. Are you? 13 months. Yeah, I went up to 13 months. Yeah. I'm still breastfeeding. I do morning and evening at the moment. Again, this is something that I'm like, I'm just going to keep it going until we move into the house and then maybe we can look to stop because I don't want to take all these things away from him that bring him comfort or happiness and joy and then be like just all this change. I don't want all this change to happen in the space of a few months. You'll find a way. So you did it to 13 months too, that's good going. And then because I did that for the first, I was like, well, everyone has to have that.

18:20Because I can't. The same. Yeah. Yeah, I just, yeah, it's hard, isn't it? I don't know what your experience is like, but it was, yeah, not enjoyable for the first. But it gets easier. But yeah, still going. So, honestly, it's a small... Forza, that's quite nice, knowing you're doing it in the morning and the evening. Yeah. That's a nice little bit of time for you and him. Yeah. It's different. I've kind of been weaning so slowly because I didn't want to do, like, cold turkey. so I've just been like over the last few months just like dropping the feed. And also your boobs. Yeah. Just to slowly decline that feed.

18:52Yes. You know. Adjust. Yes. Exactly. Yeah, no, I know people that did it at cold turkey. The pain of that. Honestly, it makes me... I can't imagine it. I'm literally clutching my boobs for anyone that's listening. I just feel the burn, the heat. Oh, I can't imagine. The stoneness of that. Each to their own and, you know, good on you. Yeah. if you could write a letter on motherhood who would it be to and what would you say I guess I'd write it to me the judgy bitch that I was I like this letter yeah I think I'd write it to myself pre-birth and just be like you just cannot judge any mum until yeah you've been in that position and just be open minded let your natural instincts take over and just see what happens and just don't set yourself any expectations or boundaries yet.

19:48Just give it a minute. Yeah. Okay. I love that. Yeah. I also like that you ended up with the question of okay. Okay. You've got to be fine with her. Yeah, okay. I like it. I like it. You know how you have to talk to yourself. Yeah.

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21:10Now, whether you are out working this summer or at home with the kids, I know you'll be constantly juggling to get it all done. Hang in there. I promise you, just hang in. I know my sister-in-law Carrie and her husband Joel have been in constant juggle mode this year. We spoke about it at Christmas, that pressure we feel to choose between building a career and building a family. So maybe you need to hear this this summer. There's no one size fits all when it comes to family or work. Because I think there's almost sort of like a fear, especially in younger performers, because they're like, will I get to have, because I want a career, but I also really want a family one day.

21:53And with the way that the industry used to be, it just didn't facilitate having a family. It was either you give 100 % to your job or you don't do the job. so I think now that we're sort of figuring out our way through it and look we're both in a very privileged position because both of us have established our names in theatre now which means that when it comes to doing jobs producers are a little bit more lenient on facilitating what you want especially if you're playing the lead in a show because if they want you they have to facilitate it that's kind of the end of the conversation and also we're not talking about diva-ish things within this No.

22:33I am. You're not saying I want a red dressing room and a few puppies running around. Can I bring my kid in every now and again if it's childcare's falling through? Can someone carry me just my dressing room? You know what I mean? Can you imagine? So yeah, I think I'd write a letter to people who want to become parents who also want a career. And I don't entirely know what I would say, but just that it is possible and that you can have both dreams. It just takes a lot of manoeuvring and a lot of figuring things out and a lot of conversation, but it is doable. Yeah. I think for those people as well, seeing people like you doing it does give hope.

23:12Like it kind of, it means that you don't have to separate it. Our friend Amber said that recently, Amber Davies. Yeah. She, she messaged me a really sweet message actually. She's really supportive, Amber. Yeah, she's incredible. The fact that you're both working and showing people that it can be done. And I'd say the same, that's like for you and Tom, you know, just to see that you can both have careers and both be successful, but you're still making sure that the kids are the priority. It can be done. Evidently, there are some privileges that we have in certain statuses and whatever, and I get that, but...

23:42But it's also the fact that there are so many parents in theatre that you don't hear about who are still doing this. And that's who we had to rely on. We've got so many friends who are parents in theatre that we had to turn to and be like, how do you do this? How are you getting everything done? Also, nowadays, a household actually has to have two wages. like you know we get years ago maybe in the 80s it was fine when you know the traditional man went off to work and a woman stayed home but like now you can't really actually afford that anymore it's very difficult and i even said to carrie how single parents have done it i do not know it's unbelievable how because i found it hard even as even when i felt like a little bit of a single parent when Carrie's on tour, but I'm like, I don't know how people can do this.

24:31It's unbelievable. I'm taking my heart after them, I really do. Well, and how important that support network is. Yeah, having a village. Yeah, absolutely. Because I do think we're so, we kind of feel like we have to be able to do everything. And I think it's so important to highlight the fact that we have a support team. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Because we don't live how we used to. We don't live in the same village with our mums, our dads, our siblings. like everyone is you know apart so you do have to to rely on people you have to create that network yeah absolutely i and the podcast with you completing three sentences the first one is being a mum means being a dad means go oh god i should have been more prepared for this you have done it before this isn't brand new i know i'm so sorry this is brand new for me i like to get what did i say before out of interest i wrote it down i've not got my pad so i was given no notes for this interview can you believe it Alex you failed being a dad means being kind sincere supportive and understanding oh well done that's a really good one beautiful oh no is that what it means oh no it was just being a mum means everything in every sense because you feel like you have to be everything to everyone all of the time yeah but also that has to include yourself um and what's that what's that amazing saying which you know is thrown around so much but it is so true is that you can't pour from an empty cup yeah and every now and again that means having to step away and doing something for yourself or just you just having a bath or just taking 10 minutes just to sort of recalibrate before you can go back in and be a hundred percent mum so yeah and and it means everything in the sense of you know how incredible it all is and how well-consuming it is, especially in those first few months.

26:23Absolutely. My God, those first few months. Oh, my God, I'm remembering it. Oh, my God, those first few months. Rocket, rocket again, rocket again. Next sentence. Since having a child, I... Have never slept. OK. Oh, no. Since having a child, I... have completely shifted my perspective. Because you have to. You have to. And it naturally happens because, you know, they come before everything. Not only because they have to, but because you want them to come before everything. Because they're just these little innocent bundles of joy and happiness and sleep deprivation. So, yeah, my perspective has completely shifted.

27:11And I think, like I said before, I was already on the way there. The whole sort of like living to work, working to live type thing. but if anything's going to be a catalyst to that, it's having a kid and you go, oh my God, nothing else matters aside from them. I love that. The holidays do have a funny way of making you feel like you're not on top of things. When Lacey Turner joined me just a few weeks after welcoming her third baby, we ended up talking about how much more relaxed you become with each child. It's a reminder, number four, sometimes letting go of the plan is exactly what everyone needs.

27:43Oh, well, when I get dressed, my son says, where are you going? because he only ever sees me in a drag suit. How are you feeling? Because I do feel like 11 weeks, you could potentially be coming out of the storm of it, of a newborn, or are you still feeling very much like you're juggling? Do you know what? It's so weird because I don't feel like I've had a baby. Really? I have really quick births. Really? Yeah, so Dusty was six hours from daughter coming out, Trilby was three from daughter coming out, and she was an hour and a half. No! Oh. So, sure, I mean, listen, I'm not taking anything away from giving birth.

28:20I mean, if you had a fourth, it would just slip out. Well, I think I'd sneeze. It would just fall out. Oh, God. But let's talk about you now. Are you sleeping? Yeah. Are you? Well, she only, she gets up at two. See, the thing with the third is they have to fit in around the others. So she can't do seven, eleven, three, because they've got to get up at seven. So funny, because Max was the same. I wonder if there's something, I mean, there'll be mums of three that are going, no, that's not true, mine are waking up. But I wonder if there is something in that of kind of going, well, this is, or maybe we're less, you know, frantic as we work with the other two.

28:57Well, they breathe, the first one, and you go, and then you check them, and then the third one, they sort of go, and you think, oh, they're waking up. All right, I'm coming. You're just sort of more relaxed, aren't you? Because you sort of know what those sounds mean, and you get what all the different cries mean. So it is, I have found it, I found the jump from one to two quite shocking. Yeah. But not two to three. I sort of, she just sort of... I felt like I enjoyed the third a lot more in the early days. Like that less feeling like I had to do certain things. Yes. Just sit and hold them. Yeah.

29:36And if they don't go to sleep, do you know what? They will eventually. Yeah. It doesn't really matter. Whereas the first one, you're like, but it says on the paper that you've got to go to sleep at half nine. Gina Ford said... You're like a mad woman and you're like, oh my God, it's only been 40 minutes. Run up the stairs. Whereas the third one, you're like, oh God, you're up. Come on, let's go. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's talk about work because you did work throughout your pregnancies. You like to stay at work for as long as possible. Yeah, because I just think it's actually harder being at home.

30:07You know, if you're at home, I've got to bend down, pick all the LOL dolls up from the floor and the Lego. If you're at work, you don't have to bend down to doing that stuff. You don't have to sit down and your tea's hot and you can go to the toilet on your own. So actually, it's easy as someone gets you a chair at home. They don't even look at you. They don't care. Mum, mum. You know, so I just thought I'll stay there as long as possible. Nice. Was there lots of stuff to help you hide your bump in scenes? And there was the first two pregnancies they did, and then I think by the third one they just gave up.

30:44Because obviously we had the live, so it was never going to match. So I just feel like I saw a couple of bits, and I thought, well, I clearly looked pregnant on the telly. They'd given up. And I remember saying to one director, I was wearing a red kimono, and I said, Miguel, you can see my bump. And he was like, you're pregnant? I was like, seven months pregnant. He was like, I didn't know. And I was like, oh, well. But no, it went out. And I think we were just sort of turning a blind eye to it come the third time. So with those two, the first two, how long did you have off the other side? When I had Dusty, I took nine months and that ended up being a year because of COVID.

31:23And then I had, I think we went into lockdown when she was about. So you would have been pregnant when you went back. I went back pregnant. I know, imagine that phone call. I phoned Kate Oates and I was like, I don't really know how to say this. And she was like, don't worry, I know what you're going to say. And she was lovely. But I felt like I was taking the mick if I took too long off. So I only had, I had trouble in the February and I went back in the August. What's that? Well, I hadn't actually, I had one more week of work and I remember filming on the Tuesday. I said, Rich, you're mad leaving my stuff till Friday and he was like, I know, I know I said, you know I'm having this baby tonight he was so low, I knew he was coming you know when you just know like I felt like he was so low I said, you know, he'll come tonight and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah lo and behold, he did come on Tuesday so I text Richard after I'd given birth I said, don't worry, I'll be in next week just to film those last few scenes.

32:34So I went in for a morning just to finish. I mean, what was that like? I mean, that was... Having two little... That was mad. Two under 17 months, you're still, you know, you've given birth. I know, but I'd had that lovely sleep because I couldn't go... Well, I guess in some ways, did it keep your mind occupied? Well, yes, because I have got a village around me helping me. I know you do, but there's also the physical and the emotional impact. And it was just a morning, and it was strange. I have to say, it was strange. When I went back with Gypsy, it was easier. There was a... One, she was easy.

33:18Yeah. She is an easy baby. I'll regret saying that at some point. As it stands today. She's been easy. Yeah, it was only a morning where this time I had a purpose. Well, I wonder if, because with the other two, I know that you had to go back after Trilby because of that scene, but that was something that you hadn't sort of pre-planned, right? No. That was just something that happened. And that was my choice. I wanted to make sure that story was finished properly. Yeah, because then you think about everyone else's craft. Exactly, yeah. stuff but with gypsy you stepped away knowing that you were going to be back when your baby was four weeks old or you know around yeah what was that like it was weird because i'd i had gone up to my boss to tell him i was pregnant and um we obviously we knew it was the 40th we didn't know what it was about so i said i'm pregnant and he sort of went a bit green and i thought that's a funny reaction it's not yours don't worry about it think anything of it I just thought okay um I was like but listen whatever you're doing for the live I want to be a part of it I missed the last one and I missed the one before that so I was like I want you know I loved doing the 25th I really enjoyed it I said I want to be a part of it thinking you know I had an inkling that there was going to be a wedding and I thought I'll be in the Vic yeah you know just be in the background of that so I was like I want to be in it and he was like are you sure and I was like yes yes I want to be in it you know it's end of February if it's live I'll be fine if not we would have shot it before anyway and at that point I don't think they decided whether it was going to be live or not um so he was like I'll let you know oh do you think they already knew the sort of storyline that they were I think they did which was why he went a bit green um which also means though that certainly the live and then the episodes that you would have filmed while pregnant that would go out afterwards, that's a very emotional journey for your character to be on and for you to be on whilst either heavily pregnant or just giving birth.

35:29It was hard because obviously me and James are really close, we're like brother and sister, so I didn't see that coming. So it was, I felt you know, filming all the stuff after the live which we shot before the live I felt like he had died. It was a really odd feeling. But I guess that's a double thing as well, right? Because you're knowing that that's saying goodbye to your partnership on the show. Yeah. So there is a grieving process within that. It was hard. It was like, you know, every tear that came out my eye was a genuine sadness. In fact, I didn't rehearse any of that. Really? I physically couldn't speak.

36:09I actually, the day after James phoned me to say that they'd decided that that's, you know, between them, that's what was going to happen to Martin, I was, like, beside myself. Yeah. I went into work the next day and said, do I need to be here? I couldn't speak. I couldn't believe that, you know, he wanted to go that way and that they're letting him go that way. I wasn't acting. I was genuinely sad. I couldn't rehearse because I just didn't, you know, I couldn't do it, I couldn't speak, I could barely say the lines. It was weird because I spent, I guess, the end of my pregnancy really sad. I guess also your hormones are all over the place as well, so I don't know, it's an odd thing to do.

36:57Now I look back, it's a really strange thing to do. But I think that is also acting. I mean, it's an odd job anyway, isn't it? So excited to see Lacey and Strictly this year, And I have to say, another person very close to my heart will, of course, be there too, Emma Willis. I'm so lucky that I've had Emma by my side since even before I had kids. She's seen the sort of pressure I put myself under at the beginning. So the house tidy, the washing up done, dinner on the table, trying to make it look completely effortless. When Emma surprised me for our 300th episode, I found myself talking about something that I think so many of us struggle with, accepting help.

37:37So my final piece of advice for you this summer is accept the help. I think I was just trying to do everything and be, you know, when people come over, the thing you want. I wanted nothing more than for people to leave my home and go, gosh, she's a good mum. Isn't she great? Gosh, she has it all together. Do you see her? Do these fresh cakes? I don't know, fresh cakes. You know, I just, I wanted to be bloody Mary Poppins, you know.

38:06Giovanna Fletcher: Well, because that is what we're told, right? That's kind of throughout the history of time. Like, apparently, this is being a good mum is having it all together and doing all these things and juggling all these balls and keeping them all up in the air. And we can do that. But also, we can't do that. And all you want is, you know, you want people to think you're a good mum, right? Because you are a good mum. but actually sometimes you just need to be looked after as well. Yeah. And it's really hard to say that out loud and to ask for it sometimes because otherwise you feel like a failure to yourself.

38:48Yeah. It's really weird, isn't it? Because all you need, I think what you need is for other people just to do the things, first of all, not ask. If anyone asks me what can I do, I'm always going to be like, oh, don't worry, I've got it. I'm never going to suggest something. If someone just does something amazing.

39:04Giovanna Fletcher: um yeah just to take that that pressure off but has that changed now that you're three children in I feel like I've changed with that I'm the same I'm like what you know whether it's to do with children or people visiting or if you're just having people over right New Year's Eve for example yeah is there anything I do no no it's fine it's fine it's true now I'm like yeah bring whatever you want to drink yeah or even even if it's that simple like i'm not failing as a human because i'm saying bring something along you know yeah i just thought it's weird isn't it it's it's self-pressure yeah for really no reason i came back from holiday once and mum had been staying over to look after the chickens so mum was there when we arrived back i put the first load of washing on.

39:51And then before I knew it, mum had done the rest of the washing. And I just thought, oh, it's great. Why don't I lean into this? This is amazing. I can just, you know, get on with other things that need to be done, like clean out the chickens. What's going on in the greenhouse? I don't need to be doing the washing.

40:09Giovanna Fletcher: And you have three boys. I mean, you have three kids. It doesn't matter whether you're very active and very wild and you know they love her they're either all together creating chaos or creating chaos individually and yelp because someone's been in their room Do you feel like there was always always chaos or do you feel like once there was two of them they created chaos with each other like was Buzz quite Oh Buzz was not chilled he was the showman He has always been on those little tippy toes Yeah. You know, he's always played, like, he's always wanted to play the drums, to play the guitar, to sing, so he's always been really, really active.

40:54Giovanna Fletcher: Well, that's because he came out of your vagina, went into a papoose and went on tour. Very true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember just seeing him as a baby at gigs with, like, these big ear defenders on. Yeah. And, you know, it's no surprise that he is just so bloody talented because he's just, like, that's all he's ever absorbed and been around is just creativity. Yeah, that's very true. But I think whenever you add children into the mix, it changes the dynamics. You know, people change their order or, you know, they're no longer the youngest or there's more responsibility because you're now the eldest of two.

41:36so I think that's always shifted I can remember Buzz and Buddy being so excited about meeting Max the fact that Buddy used to constantly hold Max I know they fight now but there are always times when you've only got two of them where you see the dynamics between two is just so different what was the dynamic like between the two of them between Buzz and Buddy Buzz used to make Buddy laugh all the time yeah very cute, it's so hard isn't it because they were so diddy even when Max came along I had three under five Buzz was four and a half I think when Max came along so yeah they're all still so diddy you know in retrospect now when I look back I'm like that was hard you know that was hard yeah and when you kind of you go somewhere you don't know where any of them are going whereas now we can kind of go i will be here and they can go off around someone's house and you know they know where to come back whereas you feel like in those early days you're constantly changed like chasing someone um but yeah i has it always been chaotic I would say, I would still say the biggest jump, the biggest life switch, life change was zero to one.

43:05Because that's a whole, that's a whole new life.

43:08Giovanna Fletcher: I agree with you there. Whereas you already live in that life when the second or third one come along. I had my most prolific writing year when Buddy was born. So I had two babies or two kids and I finished writing three books, which is just bonkers. How, G? I didn't sleep. And still now, I often think this, right? You are possibly, you and Tom are quite possibly the busiest people I know. Yeah. But without shadow of a doubt, you are always with your kids as well. So I'm like, when do they sleep? I went through a phase. I don't understand. Well, I went through a phase where I would put the kids to bed at seven.

43:55then I would carry on writing until one and then I'd go to sleep and then I'd be up again with the kids at like half five and that was my that was my routine every single day and I can remember going on holiday and us all being in the same room so we had to sleep when the baby slept and that fucked me up completely I came back and I was like where where's my eight nine hours of sleep gone I can't I can't do this anymore and that totally changed everything just suddenly realizing that oh no you do need to sleep but what I find bizarre now is that looking back at previous work kind of makes me go god how did I do that how how did I create this you know how like and I don't know whether it's because I was so tired just working on this different frequency I don't know um but but what I've realized recently is there is nothing more stifling than your previous creativity.

44:54Why? Because you're seeing the whole thing, right? You're not looking at each page as you write. You're looking at this finished product, this finished book. You know, you don't see all the work that went into it. You can read it and go, whoa, that bit was good, wasn't it? And then it's overwhelming. Yeah, yeah. To

45:12Giovanna Fletcher: try and start again. Yeah. I mean, it's all good. It's all happening. I hope one of those little reminders has found you at just the right time. Big summer love to all of you. We'll be back next week.

45:57We'll be right back. Helping you make school lunch fresh, easy, and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905.