Hannah Witton on Pregnancy with a Stoma: What It’s Really Like

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2:11Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mom, Happy Baby, the podcast. Today's guest is the amazing Hannah Witton. She has been a YouTuber for a long, long time. She's one of the OGs in my mind. She is an activist when it comes to sex education, to feminism, to relationships, to body image. She is an incredible communicator. I think, you know, we talk about YouTube and influence and stuff like that. She is someone who has really helped a lot of teenagers and young adults sort of figure out their place in the world and their place in their bodies. She is just a really powerful and incredible person to talk to.

2:54She also has a little boy called Rowan. And over the years, from a very young age, actually, she's had a lot of different health issues, which we talk about. She's had inflammatory bowel disease. She's been diagnosed with PCOS. She has ulcerative colitis. which resulted in her having a stoma bag fitted in 2018. And she talks about actually having that stoma bag and how she managed it throughout pregnancy, which I found fascinating. So please enjoy listening to Hannah Witton. Yeah, I feel like when I've had those situations of like when I got my stoma or like getting pregnant and having a baby of that, oh, I've kind of like crossed a threshold into this entirely new existence and like world.

3:40And when I, when my baby was first born, I remember calling it, what's it called in Stranger Things? The Upside Down. I was like, I'm in the Upside Down. Like there are these two realities that are existing on top of each other. and like one is like pre-motherhood, pre-parenthood life existence and then you have a child and suddenly you're like, oh, this has been here all along and people have been existing in it all along and I had no idea and now I'm here and I'm like screaming. Is that a little glimpse into early motherhood? Maybe, maybe. What was your childhood like? Great. Was it? Where did you go?

4:24No notes. well done well done parents yeah um Manchester did you do you feel like your childhood played a part in you either wanting to or not when you were younger wanting to or not have children of your own probably I I feel like yeah I had a great childhood and great parents and I don't remember a time when I didn't want to have children yeah and um I don't remember this but my parents like showed me there's a photo of when my sister was a baby and my mum's in bed breastfeeding her and I'm sat on the floor lifting up my dress pretending to breastfeed a baby doll. And I was like, that, that was when.

5:02That was the moment. Yeah. But yeah, I don't, I've always wanted to have kids. Yeah. Yeah. When you met your husband, did you talk about starting a family at early doors or wanting a family? Yeah, I think so. Like definitely within the first year of dating. Yeah. I don't think it would have gone much further. I did date someone once who off the bat, like maybe first or second date, he was like, I don't ever want to have kids. And I was like, oh, cool. I do want to have kids. And we had a great time for like three months. And then parted ways. Do you feel like you knew those straight away as soon as that person said that, that when this isn't going to go further?

5:35Yeah. But he was still a great guy. And so we hung out a bunch. And then it was like, see you later. Hung out a bunch. I like this. Hung out a bunch. Yeah. um you've had a lot of uh things go on health wise um in in your 20s and a bit earlier than that um with that going on did you ever think about how that would be impacting your fertility because I feel like it's something that you know for me I was on the pill for so long but in my mind I was like I really know that I want to have kids but what if I can't like it It was always such a massive thing of, you know, and your parents, my parents would always scare me of, you know, don't do this or this or, you know, you never know what might happen.

6:18And then actually when you want it, what if I can't? Yeah. And that I completely went through that, but I don't think I ever even thought of it for me. Like I knew that it was a possibility that for some people it's really hard or impossible to have kids. But I kind of was like, again, need to know basis. I wasn't thinking about that. but with my health stuff I actually had a appointment with my consultant after my surgeries and they basically said okay you're gonna have to have another surgery at some point in the future not right now but at some point it needs to happen but that surgery will massively impact your fertility right and I remember leaving the hospital oh and the doctor's words are like complete your family is what they say so complete your family whatever that means for you and then we'll talk surgery.

7:10And I remember leaving the hospital, standing outside and calling my partner and going, hey, so we just hold this by the doctors. Shall we start trying? Like, let's go. He's a bloody traditionalist and wanted to get married first. For God's sake. So I had to wait a whole year to get married and then we started trying and then it took a whole year to get pregnant. and so yeah but yeah I think so I must have been 27 28 when I had that conversation with my doctor and I was like all right let's go what had you already gone through um uh health stuff before that um so I have ulcerative colitis which is a form of inflammatory bowel disease and I've had that since I was seven you can kind of tell this is like I know I've talked about yeah let's go But for anyone who's listening, going, what are these health things?

8:02What? Yeah, so I've had that since I was seven and had lots of flare-ups and then had, like, a 10-year remission between the age of, like, 15 and 24, 25. And that's when this flare-up just, like, completely, like, knocked my socks off, hospital emergency surgery. And so I had my colon removed and now I've got a stoma. And then five months later I had, like, intestinal obstruction and had to have another surgery. but so a lot of slicing open but I have stoma but I was always told like pre that surgery and after like shouldn't affect your fertility like you'll still be able to get pregnant and have kids so there must be quite a shock then having someone just sort of off the bat say that to you what that I needed that you needed to think about it now before the next surgery yeah yeah I think yeah that was the first time I was given that information I wasn't told that when I initially had the surgeries this was like two or three years later like with a just like a have a yearly appointment with my consultant on how everything's going yeah and then they sprung that one on me and I was like oh okay good to know let's get cracking how did it feel when you you eventually said okay now we're married we're actually gonna start trying now how did that feel when you're actually leaning into that sort of that chapter of life it was yeah I was ready I was so ready um it was frustrating though because it took us so long yeah and we're trying for baby two and that's taking even longer um so I do yeah I didn't really know I think I remember feeling really angry because I'd been so careful my whole life yeah condoms the pill morning after pill even in situations where like those have failed me and I was like didn't even need to fucking bother no please wear gondols but still there was this like oh it's actually really quite difficult for me yeah individually to get pregnant like I'll tell you I've had so much unprotected sex right now I've still only ever had in my entire life one pregnancy really yeah which obviously blessing yeah yeah yeah um and blessing that I've not at this point had any like miscarriages or anything but yeah it's wild to me I was like oh could have been having unprotected sex this whole time but I wouldn't recommend it it's not just the baby you're preventing I know just you know you don't need to it's good practice it's good it's good practice but I'm still furious yeah no I understand that I understand that so did it get to the point where you thought you might have to get have some sort of intervention with trying first around yeah we actually had gotten to the point of being referred to a fertility clinic in a hospital had the appointment yeah and then obviously got the positive pregnancy test like before that appointment uh came around how did that feel honestly unbelievable I was like oh wait what like I've had so many negative tests and like so many periods in this period of trying.

11:14And then I kind of didn't believe it. Was there something about that time though that made you, that felt different to the previous times where it had been negative? Honestly, the thing that we say about it is that it was the time that we were expecting a positive test the least because we'd completely mistimed everything. Right. And so I was like, well, we're just doing it wrong. this whole time because I was like tracking my cycle and doing all this stuff and we were like oh well it'll be very unlikely if like we get pregnant because this time was like too long ago and this time was like an accidental withdrawal and so like how so also like withdrawal maybe doesn't that that is not a surefire method that is not because I'm pretty sure that that's how I Hannah, I feel like I'm not the one that needs to tell you this, you of all people.

12:11I know. But the withdrawal method does not work. No. Happily. Not consistently. Yeah. Not consistently. It doesn't work. It is not a surefire way of protecting yourself from a pregnancy. No, I wouldn't trust it. No. But in this instance. There you go. Happy times. Happy times. It had the desired effect. I always felt like so with my pregnancies that I did exactly the same thing actually where I was so certain that I was going to get positive tests so certain I've manifested so many so many things were going on with my body I was like this is it it's going to be now nothing whereas the times where I'm like I am feeling absolutely fucking nothing it's absolutely going to be a negative then all of a sudden oh no I am pregnant I always feel like it's two days later but my body sort of goes here you go yeah yeah Have all the symptoms.

13:00Well, for me, well, again, only one pregnancy. But my, like, pregnancy, early pregnancy symptoms were just identical to PMS. Yeah. And my boobs just start hurting, like, the moment I ovulate. And so then I'm like, okay, this could be, like, pregnancy boob hurting or this could be your period's about to come boob hurting. Yeah. And so I'm just, like, obsessing over every, like, twinge that I feel in my body. And, yeah, it gets a bit, I don't know, sometimes I feel like I'm in my body too much because I'm obsessing over like every tiny little thing that I feel. Well, even now though, like trying again now, does it remind you of things that happened first time around?

13:38And does the fact that the first time around happened in the way that it did give you comfort this time? I feel like it has been harder in some ways because it's taken longer. But we are taking things into our own hands now. Are you? Especially because I call it, because the surgery that I have to have again at some point is I have to have my rectum removed but I also it also might be out of my control as to when that happens because I have to have regular like colonoscopies where they you know make sure everything's all good but if they ever find any abnormal cells then it's just like get it out and so I call it like the ticking time bomb in my bum because I'm like if I have one of those tests and they go it's got to go I'm like okay well that's it yeah so that's why I'm like let's go and that's why I feel like even though I'm not I feel old to be like being a mum or like trying to get pregnant one because my parents were much younger than what I am now when they had kids but then also because I'm like there is a ticking time bomb in that window that we were talking about before is yeah is shorter for you yeah Yeah, yeah.

14:50The surgery is very invasive in your pelvic region. Right. And so it's moving a lot of things around. It's cutting a lot of things out. And I assume that there's a high chance of like getting adhesions and scar tissue on your like womb or ovaries and that whole area. So I think it's because it's in it's surgery in that region. Yeah. It just has the possibility of like messing everything up. Yeah. So do you feel like this time around you've you've. how does it feel going down the route where you're actually asking you're getting help for it this time yeah it's it's a weird one because it's taken us much longer than the first time round and because we already have our son uh for any kind of like intervention like we're doing ivf that has to be private we don't get that on the nhs um which i understand why but obviously i I wish there were more resources for everyone.

15:48And yeah, it's kind of the impatience, I think, is like bigger this time round. And also the other thing that's been a lot harder this time is so when we had our first and we're trying for our first, because again, young mum in my 20s, none of my friends were having kids. None of them were trying. None of them had kids. And so I could kind of get through all of that with the only pregnancy announcements that I was really confronted with were kind of acquaintances and semi strangers on the Internet. trying for a second having had a kid and being in mum circles especially ones with children same age as my child I was inundated with people that I knew and were close to with their pregnancy announcements with the ideal age gap that I had in my head and that was fucking rough.

16:46How have you handled that? Not saying it to any of their faces because that's not fair on them and ranting to other people and crying a lot when I got pregnant and I made a video about being pregnant I kind of said off the bat because I'd been trying for a year yeah it was like if you don't want to watch this like give you full permission to yeah but it's sometimes it's not even yeah it's not even how that's done yeah yeah yeah and and that that is a part of life where we are going to walk outside and be confronted with someone that's pregnant yeah you know it's that thing when it's something that you desperately want somehow it seems to be everywhere yeah I I found that there's like nuances to it though so this time around I am pretty unbothered by first time pregnancies interesting if it's someone having their second yeah that that gets me yeah that's that's too much um but first time pregnancies I don't have that same reaction like it's a little bit there but But my like happiness for them is like is more.

17:50Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Whereas it's a bit more of a tricky emotion to navigate if it's a second baby. And emotions are funny things, right? There's something that you cannot you can't control your emotions. That just suddenly springs. Yeah. Yeah. I was in a KFC. I was in a KFC. and there was a text in my like mum group um of someone asking a question something about like um work and HR and like mat leave and then was like oh now's probably a good time to say that I'm pregnant and then that then sparked someone else being like oh me too and then and I got three pregnancy announcements within the space of about five minutes and I just burst into tears in this KFC.

18:35Yeah. Which I laugh, but that was not funny. And then I had to reply being like, oh my God, congratulations. So happy for you. So thrilled for you. Love Holly Bourne. Yeah. Yeah. Because, yeah, it's nice, isn't it? And because of the way that the world is run now with our phones, we can't even control when that information hits us. Yeah. And the nice thing about, I've been very open, obviously, online, but also with my like friends and family about our fertility journey and struggles and everything and so friends who know that about us are so great when it comes to uh pregnancy announcements or like talking about someone else who might be pregnant like it has been really good they like understand like don't spring it on me in a group setting yeah because I would prefer like a one-on-one situation um and also kind of not like in a way that acknowledges the weirdness yeah of it um but yeah uh just I've also had situations where like yeah someone's some someone recently sprung a pregnancy announcement on me of somebody else may right after we just had a conversation about the fact that I was going for IVF and I just thought that wasn't very tactful and I called them out on it in the moment because I was like I feel like more people need to be aware that yeah be aware of like what just happened and I'd kind of like navigating that was because I hate confrontation yeah but I just kind of was like congrats to them but just so you're aware that that has landed poorly because of we just had a conversation about IVF so like maybe don't do that again again were they mortified they they apologized profusely yeah but um but I just hope that like being like calling it out in that moment will hopefully make people like think about it more the next time that that comes up i think secondary infertility or fertility after you've already had one it's not talked about enough and i think it really surprises people because i think when you've had one and you know you've got there you know it you just don't want everything works yeah yeah I've done this my body's my body's done this let's go yeah so then when you go again even if it's taking you a while you just think oh you know it would take a while and that's that yeah but actually then when it doesn't happen it can really cause people to to spiral yeah I think also in my head I have this like two year two and a bit year age gap yeah in my head because that was the family that I grew up in and and also it seems to be like the most common age gap that we see yeah and so once that has passed and like now we're staring down the barrel of like a five-year age gap if I managed to get pregnant and that is like I don't even know what that's like I'm like what and so I've been asking parents I'm just like anytime I like see parents or meet parents and I kind of clock the age gap of their kids I'm like tell me tell me everything yeah like pros and can't give them to me uh tom and carrie have a seven year age gap oh so i think for us um i think that's always been in my head of i know what that looks like that's not my situation with my siblings we were all quite close but for them like i think i've always seen two siblings who adore each other have a ridiculous in joke sense of humor together that they just literally are together and they would just howl and you'll be there going what the fuck are you laughing at yeah I love stories like this I'm like okay it's great yeah it's absolutely wonderful yeah um but there is this thing I think maybe societally we we just see this two year two and a half year age gap and we think that's what we're aiming for yeah yeah the other thing with stories like that is I remember talking about it in a video and saying that those kinds of stories have been quite comforting and so everyone started like throwing at me their like sibling age gap relationship stories and then I actually realised oh this is actually a bit hollow for me and there's something missing because what is missing from that is the parents experience because my audience online are all my age and so I'm like okay but what was that like for your parents?

22:57I'll give you Debbie's number okay your mother and all what was that like? My mum's called Debbie no way! Two and a half year age gap for her though so we don't talk to her. No no no Debbie Fletcher on the other hand yeah but that's actually an interesting thing that's come up with my parents because for them they got pregnant with me and my sister instantly and so whilst they are obviously like the most loving caring parents in the world and um are like so supportive of you know what we're going through is this interesting thing that they like can't relate to at all on a personal basis and it almost feels like if they were like oh well for us this that almost feels like bragging and I'm like I don't want to hear it like I know I know the story of how our family came to be um so it is it whilst it is like lovely that they are so supportive and I do feel really supported by them there is like this interesting like difference there yeah that that sets us apart and kind of like I look at them I'm like lucky sods yeah and I think of someone being aware of what you're going through and supporting you, but not really having a deep understanding because they've not experienced it.

24:11Yeah, and I think that happens for a lot of different things that people go through. Because we're not all experiencing the same thing at all. Yeah. How are you feeling about your IVF journey at the moment? Pretty positive so far. You started in January, didn't you? Mm-hmm. so we've done an egg collection cycle that went really well yeah so we've got like more than enough embryos basically if we had to we actually probably couldn't afford to implant them all so like we've got enough um but at the beginning of the process me and my husband we decided together mentally and emotionally and financially we were going to commit to three uh embryo transfers yeah and so yeah I'm kind of I don't know do I regret promising them him that because we've got more than three um but we'll see and so yeah next step is uh an embryo transfer whenever the hell I get my next period because I've got polycystic ovaries so that will just that will happen when it happens when did you find out about that whilst I was trying for my first.

25:24Oh, really? Yeah, so I've got really long and irregular cycles. And so, yeah, even though we were like trying for one year with my first, it was maybe eight or nine cycles. Yeah. And then, yeah, this time around I managed to get prescribed metformin from my GP, which has massively helped regulate it. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, it's funny, I because I was on my on my pill for so long that I came off my pill, I think a year before we got married. And only then did I realize that I just wasn't having I didn't have periods for a year. Then they were so irregular and kind of just mapping that out. My diary is full of numbers, which is basically just my cycle before the rings came out.

26:09And they're suddenly like, oh, OK, it's there. And then just suddenly realizing that they were so irregular. but for me the metformin was really really useful so was clomid but it's interesting now that I'm older suddenly my cycles are not only regular but they're really short oh oh I'm sorry oh but they're also really light I mean you know I'm getting old now we're going into pre-menopause yeah perimenopause here we come yeah yeah um but again I guess it's another area that until you're there actually thinking about it it's not it's not your not your focus yeah and my cycle was super messed up um when we started trying for our second as well because I was still breastfeeding and I like knew that you know they were they could be connected or like impact one another um but I was getting periods right and then I stopped breastfeeding and then I had like a 54 day and then a 76 day cycle and I was like this is bullshit yeah and I was like it must have been I feel like it must have been the breastfeeding yeah the stopping and the breastfeeding yeah and so that's kind of I was just like this is why 76 days when I'm trying to get pregnant are you joking just makes two and a half months long I think there are so many different things that you can do as well to help or to help or to increase your chances or whatever um and I know that I'm the type of person that could then get a bit too obsessed with things like I'm already obsessed with my temperature tracking I'm a discharge tracking add anything else to the mix I did add ovulation tests for a while and I again got obsessed and I'm just like right we need to Chill out.

27:55How was your first pregnancy? Really rough first trimester. Really? Yeah. So that feeling of nothing's happening, I'm definitely not pregnant to boom. Yeah, just horrendous. The only other person that I, at least in my personal life, know or know of who had it like, quote unquote, worse than me was hospitalised. Right. Right. Everyone else I've spoken to about their first trimesters, it seems like they had it much easier than me. I was I was on the floor. I was completely fatigued and I couldn't work for about two months. I was just on the sofa, like feeling nauseous and out of it. And I also had the the weird metallic taste in your tongue.

28:42And the only thing that would like help in the slightest was like really sour sweets, like, you know, like sugary, sour. like laces and I would like scratch them on my tongue. Oh, your teeth and your lips and your tongue must have felt funny all the time. Oh, it was the only respite I got. But then also anytime like my mouth was closed, obviously I could taste it. And so I was like, if I just keep my mouth open. But also I was just like lying in front of the TV all day. And I remember just like lying there, keeping my mouth open so that I couldn't taste it. And then my mouth just like drying out.

29:17It was bad. Yeah, it was awful. I started to feel normal again, I think around like 17 weeks. Oh, really? That's quite far. Yeah. But it was like, I remember a turn for the better around nine weeks. I remember another turn for the better around like 14 weeks. So just easing off gently. Yeah, but it was, it was brutal. How did it feel to watch your body changing? Oh, brilliant. Loved it. Because I've wanted to have kids and like be pregnant my whole life. Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing. Did anyone talk to you about your stoma bag and pregnancy before getting pregnant? Or did that happen in any days to talk about it?

29:56I can't remember, actually. The way that it works is that I have a stoma nurse at my hospital. And I made sure to register as a pregnant patient at the same hospital that I have all of my IBD and stoma care through. So it's a different wing, but it's all connected. and so I made sure to tell my IBD team like they all knew that I was trying to get pregnant um and I yeah told them all when I um once I was pregnant and then like my first like appointment in the maternity unit made sure that they knew and they knew the names of the doctors so it's just like making sure everything was connected um but my stoma nurse was amazing like because I can contact them like via like WhatsApp and telephone and stuff.

30:44And so as my belly grew, I was having to change my stoma bag and stoma bag sizes and like because my actual stoma itself was like growing as well. And so there was a lot of going back and forth from the hospital. And sometimes if she couldn't see me in person, but she knew which bags to give me to try, she would like leave them at the reception and I would like go to the hospital and like pick them up from reception um so I felt really like well looked after yeah in that realm but yeah it was just a case of like I think as far as like what I was told was just like yeah your stoma can change shape and size when you're pregnant and then it will like change again or maybe go back to normal afterwards yeah I mean it feels like more people are um maybe it's also because of things online that I'm just more aware of younger women having stoma bags yeah so therefore because of that I guess it's a it's it's also I think a lot of women are going to have to go through that that body change and and actually because there isn't necessarily a lot of information out there about it is it a worrying time to go through or you it feels like you're quite like we will figure it out yeah I don't know whether that's like my personality or the Is that just you here today?

32:07Just in this moment. But either it's my personality or because I've had a chronic illness since I was a kid. Yeah. I think there's something about living through that that kind of, I don't know, it could have different effects on you. But I think the effect that it has on me is that I'm just kind of like, well, we'll see what's going to happen. Things are out of my control. and also I feel very safe in hospitals which I know is not an experience that a lot of people have but for me a hospital represents somewhere that I'm going to be taken care of I'm like admit me please But even then with your stoma I love the fact that we were talking earlier about the video that you did that was like an hour long documenting your stoma bag in pregnancy where you know it's not quite right and you're cutting that hole bigger and bigger I knew nothing about it But even the fact that how it is, like how it's stuck to you.

33:02But that hole is literally for your stoma, but it's stuck on the outside. So we don't get any leakages. Yeah. But how you're literally trying to see throughout the whole process, like what is right, how to fit it. And then with my pregnant belly getting bigger and bigger. And then my stoma being on the underside of my belly and having to use a mirror. To be like, all right, I need to measure my stoma so I can cut this bag to the right shape. It was that was one of the more challenging parts of my pregnancy, like the first trimester, horrendous. And then second, great. And then the other bad things were like dealing with the stoma changes.

33:40And then like just the excruciating back pain towards the end. Oh, really? Yeah, I remember I must have been about around 30 odd weeks pregnant because I was up in Manchester for my friend's birthday. and I remember just like at her party just rotating between standing up sitting down bending over just in any position that was like semi-comfortable and then being in excruciating pain for like the two-hour train back to London I was like this is horrendous yeah that's not nice it wasn't nice and I remember later in my pregnancy like me and my like NCT friends we were all on our mat leaves at that point um and we were like walking through the park like getting pastries so you know like it was sunny like doing all this all the massive bellies and I remember being like does anyone else like just feel so heavy and just got like awful back pain and they were like I feel heavy but I'm not in that much pain and I was like I'm in so much pain right now and then I went into labor that night really I was just like why no one else no one else like really in loads of pain Actually, early labor pains.

34:48That's all I had here. It was just like everything was down. But I also had a very big baby and I'm a tiny woman. You are a tiny woman.

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36:36So you leave them, you go home. What happens that night? Oh, okay. Let me cast my mind back. So it was later in the evening. My husband was playing some, like, online board game, video game things with his friends. And it's like a whole thing, like a whole campaign thing. So there was, like, you know, other people that he was playing with for a whole many hours. I'm in the living room watching TV. Yeah. and I start having contractions and I'm like, I tell him, but I'm fine because they're like really far apart at this point and I'm just like watching TV and I'm like, oh, is this, is this it? Is this, is it happening?

37:17And he's like, he's like, we'll be done by 11. Just hold him up. Just wait. And actually it was perfect timing because as soon as his game was done and he was free, that's when they really started ramping up. And I was like, good timing, right, great. I think it's happening we're in and we started watching The Fellowship of the Ring the extended version extended version and we got through the entire trilogy is this your happy place is this like yeah okay this is really important yeah and I think we'd actually said before like oh wouldn't it be funny if we watched like the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy extended editions during labour and we did it because I was in labour for like four days but yeah so we watched the entirety of The Lord of the Rings extended editions it was amazing great soundtrack just like comfort watch epic battle scenes I love this so good at what point did you decide to go to hospital?

38:19oh too many times oh really? it was just the classic what you see in the movies where you go in and you're like in so much pain and like regularly contracting and they're like oh you're one centre metre dilated off you go back home and you're just like come on let's watch the next one yeah and I literally I waddled to I had a community midwife appointment that was already like booked in for like I don't know 40 plus however many days it was and things are kind of like they ramped up and then they slowed down and so we were like well that appointment's still in the diary we might as well go so we like went to this midwife appointment during labour I don't think she did an examination oh didn't she yeah I can't I'm like, I can't remember.

39:02But yeah, then went back home, started watching Two Towers. And had lots of baths, barely any sleep. Yeah. And then I think they finally admitted us on my third visit. Oh, wow. Because I was throwing up everywhere. And when they did the examination, they think that they broke not all of my waters, like the top waters thing. because they were like, oh, we've broken your water, so we should probably admit you because of the increased risk of infection, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, thank goodness. Yeah. Let me rest. Especially like you said, that's your safe space actually being able to. So let me come and take care of me.

39:45Yeah. Let me in, please. Yeah, but I don't remember having like the gushing of the water and that actually came like many hours later. I was like, ah, there it is. There it is. But they started the like 24 hour like risk of infection countdown from the first one. Luckily, they admitted us into the birth center because there was a room free. And they gave me a shot of pethidin and I fell asleep for the first time. It was brilliant. And so we both managed to have a little sleep. I kind of talk about my labor as if I like ticked basically all of the boxes. Tried a bit of this, did a bit of that. Because I did then, got in the pool, got in the water, had gas and air, and then it was a case of just like, yeah, no movement on the dilation.

40:34And it had been 24 hours, and they were like, we need to put you on an antibiotic drip. And by that point, it had been like three days, and I had barely slept. And I was like, give me the epidural. Really? I was like, give it to me. and so yeah we went upstairs to the labor ward and I had my epidural how did that feel um great initially and then I realized that one half of my body was still feeling pain and so I had to tell them and then they had to readjust it yeah and make sure that all of my body was yeah yeah yeah was numb not all of not up here down yeah yeah but yeah it was very weird because I can't remember which side it was but I could very clearly feel pain in like one side of my body and not the other um yeah also it's really important to highlight things like that as well because if someone's experiencing that sometimes we're so polite that we might not say i think it definitely took me longer than i would have liked to mention it to a member of staff um but i knew that if i didn't i was like no they're not gonna know that i can feel this um and again i think because i've been in so many hospital environments in the past i kind of i don't care yeah um um yeah and then a bit of a rest because of that because of the lovely epidural um and then we I think they were like oh finally you're four centimeters and they're like you're in they were like oh well you're in established labor now and I was like oh now I'm in established labor it's been four days oh my lord yeah and then basically the conversation then was we'll come check you again and I think it was like two hours or four hours they would check and basically however many hours later it was there was still no movement and then that's when we had the like c-section conversation but because of my previous surgeries they basically had said to us that if I were to have a c-section it would be higher risk for me because there's chance they they don't know what they're going into there might be adhesions on my womb from my previous surgeries and so they said that if I were to have a c-section they would want to have general surgeons from the main hospital also in the room and they would want the consultant obstetrician to do it and so we were having this conversation on a Saturday afternoon yeah the obstetrician consultant is telling me all of this baby's absolutely fine so that's like a relief like it's just kind of figuring out the logistics of the birth but there was no actual like emergency emergency and you've had an epidural so it's not like you're having contractions that are taking your breath away yeah during this you're that's all going on without you that's that's all happening apparently I was still contracting um they had given me like oxytocin whilst I had the epidural and basically what they said was we can either up the oxytocin um and see if things continue to progress but the risk of doing that is that it could affect the baby's health and heartbeat right um in which case it would then be after 8 p.m when the consultant has gone home right and so with that higher risk we could be looking at a more emergency emergency cesarean or you can just opt for a cesarean now we've got time to go get the general surgeons from the other hospital consultants right here you'd be next in the theater and so we were just like yeah I actually think I had this whole conversation whilst Dan was asleep and then I woke him up and I was like Dan I'm a c-section let's go um yeah and so we were like that seems like the safest option and by that point I was like get this in days get this baby out of me um yeah so we did that and um all was well it was like the most calm I would say like on emergency emergency c-section yeah it was it was very planned for an emergency c-section yeah that makes sense and also like a really sort of considered decision of you know there are options yeah but actually there's no panic it's not like anyone's in distress yeah and I like having gone through everything that I went through in my labor I was like quite chilled the whole time and I get again I think that might just be the chronic illness girly in me it's just like what will be what will be I trust the doctors let's go but your body had been through so much yeah Yeah.

45:18Did they talk about whether they found any scar tissue or anything like that? No, there wasn't any. They were like, all looks good. Which is nice in another sense, you know, what's going on in there. Yeah, so they had general surgeons in the room, but they weren't needed. But that was great because I felt like very looked after. And yeah, we had the consultant do my C-section. And I heard her admiring her handiwork when she was sewing me back up. But actually, do you know what? She had good cause to be admiring her own handiwork because since then, going through the fertility treatment that we're going through now with some of the internal ultrasounds that I've had, the staff, the doctors doing that can see my C-section scar on my womb.

45:59So not just my external one on my belly, but the one like... Because there's so many layers. Yeah. So the scar on my uterus and then go, yes, that's healed nicely. They're like, that looks very good. And I was like, oh, there we go. That's crazy. You can see that. Yeah. How did you feel heading to surgery? I felt pretty calm, like pretty ready. I've had like more invasive surgeries before. So it didn't, it didn't like feel anything new. And if anything, being conscious for one and having my husband there with me, that was, that was new and exciting. Yeah. Well, and also, I guess at the end of this one, you know, you're getting a baby.

46:37Yeah. There was a massive kind of like, I don't know, I guess like a release, like a relief of just like, OK, like it's done. Like Frodo at the end of the Lord of the Rings. I'd climbed my Mount Doom. You had. Well done you. Well done you. Thank you. Thank you. What was it like the moment that Rowan came out? um yeah I vaguely remember it and then I remember Dan and I both crying um but I didn't get to hold him for ages because he was having breathing problems and went um to NICU oh really yeah so that was odd yeah um and then yeah but I we we hadn't found out like the sex of the baby before so that was like exciting news yeah um for us like here are the genitals of your child um yeah I I remember laying in the bed afterwards because they had to get Rowan baby up to NICU or round to NICU and my husband was like do you want me to stay with you or go with the baby I was like go with the baby I think I had in my head I was like I need to be 100 % sure that there's no baby mix up here and so I was like I need you to go with the baby follow that baby follow that baby because I need to be really sure that the baby we end up going home with is our baby why was that I don't know because I think because I I saw him come out of me like I saw them lift him up over the blue sheet and then the next time I saw him he was an incubator and I'm like how do I know how do I know that that is my baby I don't know that's about I'm pretty confident now that he's my child.

48:27Like, he kind of looks like me. But, you know, you never know. No, you should know. You'd hope that they wouldn't do a baby mix-up. You would hope. You'd hope they've got some sort of system in place to keep babies separate, you know. Yeah, but it was a while until they let me see him because one of the midwives or nurses basically said, like well you can't go because you can't walk right now because obviously I was still numb from the lower half down um and I was like get me a wheelchair they're like well you need to be able to like get from your bed into the wheelchair and then I was like Uma Thurman and Kill Bill wriggling my toes like the intensity I'm like I must see my baby like getting my legs to move so I could hop into a wheelchair and and go and see him um and then I was just like back and forth I was I remember I had my obviously my bed on the postpartum ward and then Rowan was in NICU and I wanted to breastfeed and so I remember they said it was like the next morning when they were like oh you can like try now because he was off his drip thing um and so I was like oh great get to try breastfeeding um but I was still on like had my antibiotics or other medications that I was needing and so the midwives on the postpartum ward were constantly calling the NICU ward being like have you got Hannah?

49:53Have you got Hannah? Can you send her? She needs to take her medication and then the um the uh the NICU ward yeah the NICU ward doctors they would be calling the other ward being like where's can you send Hannah up? The baby needs a feed so I was like back and forth um and it was great because like my strength was um coming back to me as well and like the first couple of times of going back and forth I was being pushed in a wheelchair and then after that I was like walking myself but like holding on to like the wheelie cot thing like a Zimmer frame um obviously your first moment with Rowan or on him being in the world wasn't how you would have envisaged it no has that ever played like has that ever played in your mind at all very briefly yeah like if if i am if i am able to have a second i think i would if if possible i would be like can i have skin to skin contact immediately like if if that's possible like as long as you know baby's health isn't like taking precedent over that um but like overall no i think it's like such a tiny moment in like all of the moments and the rest and his whole life and the rest of his life yeah that I don't like dwell on it all that much no can you remember leaving the hospital yes we just for the sake of like precaution we were in hospital for like four or four days I think after he was born um and there was still like some covid regulations with visiting hours and so that four days was actually I think more emotionally brutal and like a lot harder than the labor um because Dan could only come in for like two hours a day there was a lot of like breakdowns I think the it was kind of like the the NHS resources just kind of like slipped away like once you had the baby um and there was a few other women on the same like section of the ward that I was on and we each like kind of took it in turns to have a breakdown and then we would We kind of like comforting each other like through our curtains, just being like, don't, I hope you're okay.

52:10Don't worry. It was me last night. It's an interesting thing, isn't it? I feel like when you're about to give birth. So I also had hospital birth. So there's that feeling of just let me in. Just let me in because that's my safe space. And then it's like, let me out. It's a real shift. It's a real shift. Get me out of here. Yeah. It was, yeah, it was a lot of, like, I understand why we were in there for as long as we were, but I feel like our stay could have been better. There was one member of staff who was amazing, who, like, could see that I was, I was, like, completely upset and we were staying longer than I thought we would.

52:51So I didn't have, like, enough nappies or anything. and Dan had come with like all of the extra supplies but it's outside of visiting hours so they weren't letting him on the ward to like give me the supplies and I was just completely beside myself and I think she was a healthcare assistant and she like was amazing and comforted me and said I'll stay here with the baby and you can go outside to see him because otherwise they wouldn't have let me and Dan see each other and I like had to be like let out of the ward and see him in the corridor of the hospital. Yeah, that was one of the lowest points.

53:28Yeah. It's weird where your emotions go after giving birth, though. You know what I mean? Like those hormones coming in, your breasts, like the milk coming in. It's just everything is just such a whirlwind that I think is unlike any other period, actually, in your life. Like it's just something else takes over. Yeah. Yeah, and the survival mode that kicks in. Like I just had not slept for four days. And then suddenly I'm being tasked to look after this baby and then not letting my husband visit overnight. So I'm having to do all of it myself. Also, I've just had surgery. Big thing. You can't really do that for yourself.

54:05Yeah. And the staff, whilst I understand why, because I doubt they get many like patients with stomas. the none of the staff knew how to change a stoma bag and I wasn't able to like properly do it by myself I needed assistance yeah um especially because I had my baby on the on a Saturday and so the stoma nurse wasn't in the hospital until Monday right um but then she did come and visit me on the on the ward um once she was in um but it was difficult as well because like none of the staff were like looking at me being like I don't know what that is what I'm doing and I was like oh okay like okay maybe add that to the training even though I don't know how like maybe I'm the first person that you've seen who has one but there may be more yeah yeah like we were saying but it's again it's those things that you don't really know what you're up against until you're in that moment yeah that you could never have predicted that you were going to give birth on a Saturday and then the stominus wasn't there yeah um yeah because my belly like obviously was immediately different and suddenly the stoma bag that I had on whilst I was in labour suddenly didn't fit anymore.

55:18Yeah. You've talked about your boobs in many a video. Yes, the boobs. You've got big boobs and big boobs and feeding. Yes. Is quite the thing. I found them quite beneficial. Really? Yeah. I found sideline breastfeeding really easy with big boobs because I wouldn't have to change sides to do the other boob because they were big enough to like both could flop over to one side. They're both just there. They're both just there. It's great. Yeah, that was that was handy. They were ginormous. Were they? Like right after birth and I actually don't know but they seem to have like gone back down again but some of the photos I have of me breastfeeding in those first like few weeks I'm like that boob is bigger than that baby yeah it was a lot and I stopped breastfeeding like just before he turned two yeah and he's almost four now and we were like cuddling in bed the other night and he was like there's no more milk and I was like no it's like when I was a baby like I had milk and then he like asked to try again and I was like there was a moment where I was like is that a good experiment and I was like No, no.

56:33There's those breathing things in, isn't there? It's like, is this good or is it a terrible? No, no, no. I was like, actually, I think I just need to draw a hard line. We need to set the boundary. But bless him. But that'll be interesting when the next one comes along to, you know. Yeah. Because that's something that he's experienced. Yeah, but doesn't remember. Yeah. Or at least, I doubt he actually remembers it. Yeah. But I am like 100 % sure that he like has some memory of comfort from my boobs. Because he loves a cuddle and a, you know, a grab and a grope and all of that. And I'm like, yes, they are very comforting, aren't they?

57:12Yeah. Yeah. All the breastfeeding. All the expressing. I remember having just, I was quite, I used to express more than probably I should have done. Just having freezer full of bags. So when people come over and, you know, get something out of the freezer, oh, never mind all my milk. We bought a chest freezer. Did you? To basically, because we had quite a small fridge freezer at the time. And so we bought this like massive chest freezer because one, just to store all the milk. But then also we were like bulk cooking so that we would have just like portions of like homemade freezer food to, you know, keep us sustained during those initial weeks and months.

57:56That's really good. Has motherhood been what you expected it to be? I don't know what I expected. Really? Yeah. Did you know what type of mum you thought you would be? I hoped that I would be a chill one, don't we all? How's it going? How's that going to give you a hug? I think it's going all right. I definitely hoped that I wouldn't lose myself in motherhood. and I would still hang on to a lot of the things that I loved before and that's definitely happened I do think that one of the things that helped with that is that I went back to work part time three months postpartum which is very soon but there was something about that that I think mentally really helped me because it was only part time so I was doing half days here and there was something about I don't know switching between the two that like kind of kept me quite stimulated and I enjoyed the break from the baby and then like yeah that felt really good yeah you said at the top when we asked you about your childhood about your mum and dad no notes no notes do we hope that Rowan when he's older when he's asked where his childhood he goes I mean now the bar is really high damn it because that's what we're aiming for yeah yeah maybe set myself too high expectations I do though think that like at this age now especially because he's at a nursery that's attached to a school the kind of big looming conversation of like what are you going to do about this is like tech social media phones even though he is only four so that is one that I think I'm I probably won't read a book on it let's be honest that's not my style but I will talk to other parents and maybe read some websites about it.

59:51Do you already have thoughts on it at the moment? So when my eldest was Rowan's age, I still had in my mind, by the time he needs a phone, you know, they'll have sorted it out by then. Do you know what I mean? How optimistic is he? And they haven't. No. Does your 12-year-old have a phone? He has a smartphone, which is a dumb phone. So he can literally call us. He's got a few friends that he calls. He can take photos. He can listen to music. but he has no internet access on there. Yeah. But then they're at school and they're on a device that has internet. Yeah. You know, that they're allowed to go on whenever they want.

1:00:28So when I was at school, you had, at Sylvia's we had nothing, but where I went to secondary school, where I went to sixth form, sorry, there were a few computers that you could log on to in your lunchtime. And then you had the internet. Yeah, there was the IT room. Yeah. But everything was blocked. Yeah. Like, I remember playing a lot of Never Up. Like, this is so niche. Maybe there'll be some people listening who are like, oh, my God, Never Up. I think that's what it's called. Did you ever watch Smile or hear about Smile? So Fern Cotton and Reggie Yates, maybe? So that was on all the time when I was a kid.

1:01:09And then Nev was the little, like, mascot puppet character. And so because it was a CBBC show, you could access BBC websites on the school computers. It's one of the few approved by the school computers. Everything else is blocked. And there was a game called Nev It Up on there. Where Nev is kind of like temple run vibes where you're just running in a straight line and avoiding rubbish bins and puddles on the floor. Nice. and yeah just play that during IT class fun times fun times during class but two what I'm going to do about my four year old and having a phone ideally like yeah I'll have sorted it out by the time you get there yeah you Giovanna will have sorted it out please I think I think it'd be naive to think that he wouldn't need a phone when he starts secondary school but like a dumb phone version but like social media hopefully later I think it's just a kind of delay delay as much as possible and it's interesting isn't it because I would consider you one of the OGs of that YouTube world and the topics that you talked about especially back then like it's so informative and for a lot of teenagers that's but I guess we are also talking about teenagers then we're not talking about Yeah, and I think the content that I was making back then as well was definitely aimed at 16 +, 14 +, at a push.

1:02:48Hannah, if you could write a letter on motherhood, who would it be to and what would you say? I think it would be to my parents, which might be cliche. No, you gave them no notes, so this is good. Yeah, but I think becoming a mum has definitely brought me closer to my mum in a different way, and my dad too. Um, but yeah, some, some sort of letter to them just being like, oh, I get it now. Thanks. Good job, guys. Yeah. One of the things that they've also told me in, in adulthood as well, especially when I've like had my health issues and things is what I will always remember that they said you never stop being a parent like no matter how old your child gets and I see that with them completely like even though obviously they love coming to visit and hanging out with their grandson they're also there still to parent me yeah and there are moments in my life where I'm just like I just want my mum just need my mum um and so it's like and they understand that as well and I also have seen instances of them still being parented by their parents oh really yeah and it's and also or being or them feeling like they need their mum or they need their dad do you know what I mean um and so it's it's it's kind of I think unveiled a lot of the nature of those relationships in my family more to me now and seeing like oh this child who's like almost four now but when he's an adult like I'll still be his mum and my mum will still be my mum and yeah yeah yeah gosh that's really made me think about my dad and his mum because there was definitely that that need to have his mum and that sort of yeah she's always been on on quite the pedestal for yeah yeah I I saw it the most with my parents when I was in hospital when I was ill right and the kind of um the like the infrastructure of care in the family so I was the one who was ill and I needed care from my parents and so they were caring for me but they were struggling because their baby was in hospital and was ill um but they and so they go to their parents to get the care that they need because that is having an impact on them and so yeah it's kind of I can And kind of like see that like family web of care.

1:05:23Having your own child now, does it make you think about that time? You know, seeing Roman and having, knowing your love for him and your connection to him. And thinking about your mum and your dad when you were poorly, you know. Oh, it hits harder. Really? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. We end the podcast with you completing three sentences. Oh, okay. I've done my homework. Have you? Nice. The first one is being a mum means? So this is, again, cliche, but being a mum honestly means the world to me because I've just always wanted to be a mum. And so it is something that I do find like so fulfilling.

1:06:07And it also just being like, oh, I am the version of myself that I always wanted to be or knew I would be. Yeah. Since having a child, I? since having a child I value community so much more it's definitely become something in my life that I'm really focusing on like quite intentionally like taking action to foster relationships with people in my local community and um help people out if they need but also ask for help if I need um and and also kind of like support local businesses like kind of in that whole realm because some of the local businesses it turns out are actually owned by people that I know so it's all kind of part of it um yeah the community part the final sentence is I'm happy when so I'm happy when I'm busy and doing things and out and about and this is like either myself or with my child I do find parenting a lot easier when I like have plans um and activities and things um but i just know that like yeah i'm in my happy place when i'm yeah just out and about doing things there's people around like talking to other adults grown-ups yeah um yeah that kind of gives me a lot of energy and i feel really good in those situations i find doing calms me like if i'm at home i will often be i won't be sat down i'll be on my feet doing something i mean i feel like whether that's whether that's cleaning or cooking whatever that is I find the doing regulating yeah yeah I love the kind of just the the energy of being out and about and around other people and talking with with other people yeah yeah Hannah thank you so much thank you it's been so lovely I've really really enjoyed it thank you very much

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