Happy Mum, Happy Mother’s Day!

0:06Hello and welcome to Happy Mum, Happy Baby, the podcast. I hope you're all well. Now today we have something a little bit different. Celebrating Mother's Day on Sunday really got me thinking about some of the stories we've heard over the years on this very podcast. We've shared some gorgeous moments and felt all the emotions. We've laughed until we've cried and sometimes we have literally just cried and that's all right. So I thought that this would be the perfect time to reflect on some of those conversations. I really think celebrate what it means to be a mum. The The good, the bad, the beautiful, the messy, the smelly, the wonderful and the downright ridiculous.

0:48So let me take you back to some of my favourite bits of motherhood wisdom. And let this be a little reminder that no matter what challenges you're facing today, we are all in this together.

1:07Today's guest is a singer, a songwriter, a producer. She's won a Brit Award, an Ivan Avela Award. She has won a Grammy Award. And she's also had a baby this year. It's Camille. For me, the most interesting thing has been like the weeing in the face. He weed in my mouth the other day. Yes. He did we in my mouth. So it's because they're cold. So if you put a flannel over their bits, it stops them. It stops them weed on you. Yeah. I mean, I think I was a child by the time I worked that out. But I mean, otherwise I would say 90 % of nappy changes I would get. They would weed everywhere. Yeah. Yeah.

1:47He weeded my mouth. He did. He weeded my mouth. He did. I fully accept that happened. Oh my gosh. He's so cute though. He's so cute. Well, what was it like, that first chunk of time, like, leaving the hospital and going home? You put a gorgeous video of Tommy, like, walking through the house. Oh, I know. Oh, my God, you saw it. We were just so scared. Because, you know what it was? Because the birth went, as much as that story was a bit traumatic, because it was such a quick and happy, healthy birth, and everything went really well, I thought I'd been there for, like, a week. So I packed enough to, like, bloody go to New York and back.

2:22I was just so, I didn't even have my suitcase. Babe, I had a massive suitcase. Like I'm talking a full 32kg suitcase of stuff. And they were like, right, you can go home now. Me and Tommy were like... But I haven't even eaten my snacks yet. We're not ready. I literally hadn't eaten snacks. I literally had not eaten snacks. I warmed up my food. And they were like, yeah, you can go in tomorrow. In the morning we went home. And it just felt like, are you guys sure you want to allow us to walk out of here with this child? Because they are so chill about you just walking out with the baby. And me and Tommy just didn't feel ready at all.

2:51So we packed him in the car and everything. and it was raining. I remember it just started heavily raining and I was like, oh my God, the rain's going to touch him. Something might happen to him. And we were so worried. And then we got him home and I remember we walked over the front door with this baby and I just remember thinking, oh my God, this is incredible. And he was just looking around the house and looking at us and it was a beautiful moment. I'll never forget that moment of my son coming home. Yeah. And Tommy just felt so proud. Like he proper took that role of a dad straight away. He was incredible.

3:27Did the house feel different with him in it? Yeah, it felt like a home immediately. It felt like a home. Everything made sense. Because me and Tommy had just been tinkering around in this house. Yeah. And I don't know why we decided to get such a big house together, but we were just so extra. We were like, we're going to live in Surrey. Yeah, let's live the life. But I mean, the house was made a home when our baby came home. Yeah, he's just the best. It makes life feel real and feel fulfilled. it really does you post a video about six days after birth I think it was six days after a week after bringing him home and you're both so happy and uh and I can remember in your sort of copy part the caption yeah you'd written one thing I've realized is that don't believe other people when they say you know all the negativity that might come at you like you were saying about the sleep get all the sleep yeah all that stuff oh shut up you were just sort of like actually we're fine and we don't have to listen to other people you know you'll be okay essentially if that's the one thing I've learned is to not listen to anyone who tells you anything even if it's someone you love everyone's going to tell you stuff from their experience their fears their issues like for me example I could go and say to someone now don't get an epidural but I mean it's fine if you get an epidural so I wouldn't say that to you and I've learned just to not listen to people because your experience will be absolutely fine being a parent is really not that hard it's just not i can't sit here and go because you'll find a way you actually do find a way you're still alive we're still here doing it aren't we we're fine we're still alive i only just had one four months ago and i'm here doing an interview you know what i mean so like it's doable and i wish i never listened to everyone going oh make sure you enjoy your last sleep well i guess as well with you like for you knowing that you did have this album coming out and you had a newborn did you feel like it was almost a countdown like you had that time was almost going and i know you still have you know your time at home and fully doing that but did you feel like there was kind of a countdown i did a little bit i did because obviously your due date is approaching and it really does feel like a big countdown but i feel like my whole life has been a countdown if i'm honest I feel like my whole career has been a countdown I've been wanting to be an artist from the day I started music it just wasn't the right time and yeah I feel like countdowns exist all around us so I just took it like I'm just gonna do this anyway I just see it like a big melting pot of creation yeah I don't see it like one has to exist or the other one can't I'm just like yeah let's just go for it and see what happens I mean you are someone who just goes and gets like we talked about before but do you think motherhood has propelled that further yes because now I I simply don't have time.

6:10Yeah. I have windows. Every mother knows about the windows. You have a window, a crucial window when your child is asleep. You better do what you need to do in this window. If you take your time, if you start scrolling on Instagram or doing some crap, you've wasted your window. Yeah. So you have to use the time well. So now it's made me even more like, okay, I've got two hours. Like the other day I had to finish mixing a song. I had two hours to do it, which was taking me the whole day. I got in that studio. I got it done. And so now I'm even more, I feel like, ambitious and more aware of my time.

6:41And I respect my time so much more than I did before, my free time. That's why if I am doing something with my career, it means more now because I've had such little time to do that. And I thank my son for that because he definitely has shaved down my free hours. That's very true. I think you have tried in the past to juggle with a newborn and being in the studio. I have. There's a video online of me actually doing it. And it's so funny as well, because I don't know if you know Fred again. He's a really good friend of mine, an amazing artist. But he came over to meet the baby the other day. And we were in the studio and making music for his new album, actually.

7:16And the baby is all over the song. My son is actually going. It's so funny. I'm going to post it. But I mean, you just have to make it work, don't you? Absolutely. What else are you going to do? There is no other option. There's no other option, especially with the mum. Yeah. One thing my mum always said to me, right? and it's not a negative she saw it as a positive she said when you're a mother you're you have to realize in fact when you're a woman you have to realize that you are the mother it doesn't matter what happens it doesn't matter how many partners you're around you or how much family you have around you it falls on you at the end of the day it will always fall on you and I've really really felt that not that I don't have help I have so much support from everyone around me but I definitely feel like I am his mum like I am probably the most important right now thing to him because I provide him with the milk and I provide him with that comfort.

8:07When no one else can get him to stop crying, for example, he'll be on me for two seconds and he'll stop. So you definitely feel that pressure and that importance. My mum always said that to me. She said, you're going to realise how important it is being a mother. I can't tell you how excited I am for today's guest, mainly because she has four boys, not a measly three like mine. hello Kaleen Rooney I always thought I'd have three children I don't know whether that was because I was one of three then obviously we got Rosie but I was set on three and I think because I had the boys quite young I felt like I had more time to go on and I would probably end up having another one so we sat down and talked and we said obviously we asked each other and I said I probably will go on and want another one so then we decided to do it sooner than later I think, you know, and have them all together and not too much of a gap.

9:06And then once Cass come along, we knew that was it. And it's not the caring for. I could look after loads of kids. But it gets to a certain point where you're just like... Yeah, it's tension. I can't give them that individual. And I like to make sure that they've got my time. You know, like in the summer holidays, I make sure that I take them all individually somewhere, maybe with a friend or on their own. so that they have had that mum and son time. But when you're in the house and it's all manic, they don't get that individual. So to go on and have more children, I felt like I haven't got enough time now to give them all that attention.

9:43So if someone else comes along, if they did, you'd do it. You'd get on and you would do it. But that was what was in the back of my mind. So why not to have any more children? Let's talk about the chaos. You have four boys. I have three and I feel like a massive part of my mothering role has been refereeing. Yes. It feels like they can't walk past each other without an arm or a leg flying out. You know, it's constant. Constant. It's exactly the same of mine. It's like a domino effect. The eldest picks on the next one, that one picks on that one, that one picks on that one. I had friends who have had girls first and then they have a boy and they go, oh, I think there's something wrong with him.

10:21I said, no, there's nothing wrong with him. He's just a boy. He's very active. They don't sit still. Whereas girls, you find you can go to a restaurant, they'll colour in and they'll get on with this. Whereas mine are just up and running around and you try and control them. The more you try and control them, the louder it gets. See, that's the thing. And this is something I'm actually discovering recently. I don't know why. I'm only just discovering it. I feel like if I try and fight it, it actually gets worse. Yeah. So how do you remain sort of calm or do you just have to embrace it? It takes a while and then it will snap.

10:54But I'm at the point now where they'll all go outside and they'll all go out happy and say, are you coming? Are you coming? Let's go and play football. I wait for the cry. Who's going to be first in crying because someone's tackled them or someone's done this, someone's done that. I expect it. That's like when they're laughing, when they're all having an amazing time, you know there's going to be a tip. You know there is. But you don't want to stop that laughter. I know. Well, I just know once they say, do you want to come and do this with me? I'm thinking, what's the intention? Like, are you doing it for a fun time or are you doing it to make him cry?

11:30And at the minute, the thing my boys are doing is getting boxing gloves on and all going on the trampoline. So the trampoline's got, you know, a netting round. So it's sort of like cage fighting type thing. And all you see is the bouncing and then punching and kicking. but I say no someone's going to get hurt and they go no we love it I'm thinking oh please but that's the thing sometimes you've just got to let it play out I like them doing stuff together and that's where you think maybe it will work out but it never does do you find that the things that they're doing together are generally chaos and a little bit rebellious yes yeah and they do stuff together so that if they get caught they can blame someone else so mine will say oh no it wasn't me it was him but because they're in a pack you can all blame each other and you're not just focused on one.

12:22It's a total pack and I think also because there is that chaos and mayhem, when there are moments of calm, it is so amazing. It's so beautiful. Like I had two of my youngest two, my seven year old was helping my five year old with his reading the other night. It's really calm in bed. A brilliant teacher whereas the rest of the time they'll all be quite manic and on each other. I do find when you get two of them on their own it works. Once you put that third one in the mix or the fourth one, that's when the chaos happens. And I took my two youngest to visit Wayne when he was in America. The older two have football tournaments, so my parents took them to the football tournaments.

13:02And I took the two younger ones. It was so nice because my seven-year-old was a child again. When he's with the older ones, he tries to act older and he'll just be doing sports and stuff. He's not actually sitting playing. whereas the two of them were playing with figures and it was just so nice to see because I feel like the more you have, the less childhood they have and they just grow up. And when my youngest started preschool, he would come out and say, mum, mum, and everyone was looking, why is he calling her mum? And not mummy. Like, he's the fourth one. It's like, and they were all on the face when everything's mummy, daddy.

13:39And he's just like, mum, dad, because he's got it off the older ones. I think Tom is dad but I am still mummy at the moment now I'm mum but mama where did that go like all of that mama yeah and even my eldest like I was mama and my mum was mama Clare and I always thought she's had like a it was a nice ring to it but now she's nan now and I'm mum and I think you have to encourage it whereas I probably never encouraged it from the beginning see I've got a friend and all her children Her oldest is 15 now and she's still mama. But her mum is mama. So it's a nice thing. I absolutely love that. Colleen, if you could write a letter on motherhood, who would it be to and what would you say?

14:27I was writing to myself and I would explain that having a child is a complete life changer. There's so many good things, however there is difficult times. obviously what was talked about it is a shock and it's not just you to think about anymore you have got this massive responsibility and life does change but you've got to make the best of it I think for me preparation and organisation is a good way to get by being a mum things go smoother and easier if you do plan also you'll never feel a love like you do with your children it's a totally different love just make the most of it don't get eaten up and distracted and let that take your time away from your children which I've learned recently is even though I was physically there looking after my children mentally I wasn't and that is my biggest regret from that core case is that I was so distracted and wasn't there for my kids but everyone around me understood and now I can say I'm so happy to be Colleen again and that's what I've got back from family and friends is she's back yeah what I love as well is that it doesn't matter how old your kids are you're still learning yes like we both said during this chat recently I've been thinking about this yeah everything always evolves no yeah I think through life you've get so many different situations that you've never been in before and you always learn from it whether you're going through a good thing or a bad thing but I think it's good to learn it's good to take on board that it's even like what you tell your children you can make a mistake because you learn from it and that's what I do tell my children is you know I'm honest with everything and if they ask me the question I will honestly answer it when you read the book I talk about Wayne's mistakes and I don't want my boys to do that and I say you know it wasn't right but we've moved on and you know we can make things right and that is a big thing that I want my children to realize that You know, we do make mistakes in life, but we've got to learn not to do them again.

17:05So today's guest, I got a description that said this. Describes herself as a Daily Mail's worst nightmare. A gay, Muslim, British, Pakistani, Tory-hating social worker from a working class background, not fitting in, has been the default position for most of her life. I read that and I thought, I need to talk to her. So here she is, it's Ismael Almas. I think what any adopted child or any child that's in foster care goes through, the sense of loss and trying to reconcile the transition in their life is massive. You know, if we think, if we're just like as an adult, if you're suddenly taken away from your family, your partner, your parents, your kids, And if you were planted in a new house with strangers and told, forget about the previous life.

17:54And I guess that's the thing, do you not? You can't keep up those ties at all. You can, you can, you can, absolutely. And we tried really hard to. So we, you know, had photo albums for him to kind of look at of his foster carers. And we've met them since. And, you know, he remembers them. And they're very much part of his history and his life. and I hope they always will be. How long did it take for him to settle? I don't know if it was for him to settle or for me to feel like I was his mum. So I don't know if that is the same thing, but I know the first time that I felt like, wow, was the first time he went to nursery and it was about a year after he'd been with us and we took him to nursery.

18:40You know, we hadn't left him with anyone And I think we'd only left him for an hour without us at the nursery. So it was a very trial, you know, the initial introductions. And I think he was only going to go, you know, for like two sessions a week or something. And the first time we went to collect him and he saw me and he just came running up to me and threw his arms around my neck and just clunked to me. And I think that was the first time that I felt like, wow, I miss mum. Oh, yeah. It must be so difficult because that's what you want. Yeah. And did you feel like there was some sort of disconnect up until that moment?

19:19Did you feel like you weren't quite his mum? Was it just in that moment that everything fell into place? Yeah, I think so. And I think I was faking it till I made it for so long. And I was referring to myself as mummy and referring to myself as his mum. But what you say and what you feel are often two very different things. And in my Edinburgh show that I did, I talked about him rejecting me because he had, well, this is true for many, many adopted kids, that they've lost their birth mum. They then go into foster care and in foster care, primarily the main carer, the primary carer is a woman. They then might go into another foster home or another.

20:18So they get moved around and pretty soon they learn from a very young age that actually mummies are not to be trusted. They don't stick around. They leave you. So to protect themselves from losing yet another mummy, what kids sometimes do is they reject the female carer. and I think because I'd been a mum, I had been the primary carer, I'd kind of always thought, that is not going to be me. If our adopted child, if our child rejects anyone, it's going to be her because she's not a biological parent. You know, I am, I'm, you know, very maternal. I was the broody one. So it was a massive shock to the system when it happened and it was me.

20:57So I'd kind of been with him reinforcing myself as mummy and he took his time, shall we say, to call me mummy. And how have your daughters been with your son? Oh, my God, incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah, just incredible. And at times, because they're like older now, they're like 25 and 21. So now sometimes if he's pissed off with me and my partner, he's almost like, ah, fuck it, I've got another two. You know, he's like, I don't need you to, bye. You know.

21:33So, yeah, he's absolutely our world. He absolutely is. Has it surprised you how you feel as a mum through adoption? Yeah, it has. And what has really surprised me is I think I've done a lot of preparation myself about that whole thing about if he behaves in a certain way, you might not instinctively know why he is behaving like that or why he said a certain thing. It's not that I know it. When he says something or does something or, you know, something happens, I completely have the same instinctive knowledge about why he's done it. You know, and if I say to him, have you done that because of this?

22:13Are you saying that? And he's like, yeah. How do you know? Because as a mother you were. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and that bond. Oh, my God. The same instinctive bond, the love, everything is there. More so, I'd say, for him than it is for my other two. I won't tell him that. He is just, I feel like I've waited such a long time for him to come along. Really? Oh, my God, yeah. And I feel that, I feel in lots of ways that I've waited my whole life for him. Yeah, he's incredible. Yeah, he's completely the love of my life. Oh, yeah. That's so gorgeous. Yeah, he is just, yeah. Oh, he's lovely. And it's amazing to think that you chose that pairing.

23:09Yeah, yeah. If at any other time that you'd have looked into it, if it was a year before, if you didn't take that break. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And what surprises me as well is, like, the little quirks that he has. you know what he's picked up and I don't know kind of nature nature all about how alike my other two he is and how alike me and my partner he is yeah he's like wow today's guest I'm very excited about because I've been wanting to speak to her for a very long time um she was originally on our screens many moons ago in the only way is Essex she's done so much since then it's Lydia Bright I'm living the dream really because I've got a career and I've a child and I really like loved it and enjoyed it and it was so manageable I'm one of these people as well like I I've always got to be doing things yeah so I think for me if I did have to completely stop I don't know if I would feel fully fulfilled like if I did just completely so I think for me I've always had to have like my brain ticking yeah and then it got to her turning one and then it became harder to manage because as we know they stopped napping for as much it became hard to manage and I was still so busy it wasn't slowing down like all of the you know lovely mummy sort of stuff my parents were helping out when they could and I was just kind of like juggling but then also where my career isn't a normal nine to five I can kind of work whatever hours I want so So I'd put her to bed and then I'd film a lot of my content or I'd edit things and I'd do my contracts and stuff then.

24:49But then I was up till quite late. So it got to about 16 months when it was like really hard to manage. So I was like, shall I consider nursery? And I just felt so guilty for thinking it because I was like, she should be with me. She's too young. And a lot of nurseries as well take it too, don't they? Like what I found around where I lived, I was like, oh my gosh, the majority of mums obviously don't send their children till they're two because of... That's quite late. Yeah. A lot of nurseries that I was approaching, they were like, we don't take till they're two. Oh, I shouldn't be even considering it then.

25:26Well, if you think most maternity leaves... Some of them are like six months, aren't they? Exactly. So those kids have to go somewhere. Exactly. I just felt so awful for like even considering it. I could have just turned down the work and just not sent her. But I was like, I really enjoy this. And I don't want to, like, put this on pause. And then who's to say that I could just pick it up again? And I thought, I really want to do the both. And I felt guilty about wanting to do the both. Did you vocalise the fact that you were feeling guilty? Because I'm sure had you vocalised that, you would have got an influx of people going, I felt that.

26:05Yeah, I did. and this is why I think like people are all quick to like shun down social media but it's like such a great community for people yeah like I'll constantly be like asking things on Instagram and people would be like you know it's fine I'm a mum and I did this and so yeah a lot of people would give me like support and reassurance but I just think sometimes it's just like a mental battle with yourself and I think as well obviously I was a single mum and although we locked down with my parents at this point now we were living back at my home yeah we slept together she'd only ever like slept every night with me at that point she'd never done like any overnights at my parents we've always been together and where it was locked down like I don't think I had a night out until she was like two we'd never been apart from each other when I first sent her to nursery the separation anxiety was hell like I would come away from the nursery in floods of tears and then I wouldn't even be able to work for the first hour and I'd be like playing with like my head like shall I just go back and pick her up and that went on for a long time really yeah she just never wanted to go to nursery and then it just got better and now like she really enjoys nursery yeah she's got all her little best friends I do think it's important you know it's an important element of childhood for them to have that like independence yeah and also as well like I wouldn't have been able to buy the house that we live in now had I have not worked that hard in those two years and took up all those opportunities yeah so it's like the compromise providing means many different things exactly exactly and it was like a dream like we moved back to the house that I renovated but I didn't have a garden it was like I really just want to buy a house with a garden and you know and I really want to so it's like you know I did have to send her to nursery when she was 16 months old but we wouldn't have this beautiful home that we're living in now that she loves and so you just have to make compromises like with the milk and breast milk and formula it's compromising with all the outcomes and there's loads of factors yeah if you could write a letter on motherhood who would it be to what would you say I think I would write a letter to myself when I was pregnant and also share that with anyone that's facing pregnancy alone because as I said you know when I was going through it was the worst thing in the world but I'm not the first person that it's happened to and I won't be the last and I think it can be a really scary time and I think I would just write to myself and say when this baby comes it will be the best thing that ever happens to you and everything will work out and you'll find a flow and you'll find a dynamic that works for you don't worry what everyone else thinks because that's a massive factor I think whilst I was so nervous when I was pregnant I think pre-children and maybe just like youth, you worry so much about what everyone thinks of you.

29:24I think when you have children, you really grow into yourself and feel confident in the decisions that you've made and you become more assertive and stronger. I think I would just tell myself, like, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks and anyone's judgments, you live your life the way that you want to live your life. the more that you worry less about what other people think, the happier you'll be. And we end the podcast with you completing three sentences. The first one is being a mum means. Being a mum means making someone else your priority. You're no longer the leading character in your own life, are you?

30:09a new person is and they become your entire focus your entire universe and whilst that can feel daunting I also think the innocence and the pureness that comes through children also means that you get like a second chance to live your life and you're living it through their eyes and I just think the world just becomes a lot more colourful because of that. Since having a child, I? I have definitely become stronger, more confident in who I am, more determined at work and, you know, success and success comes in many different ways but like I just feel like a lot more passionate about the things that I do.

30:58And I'm happy when? I'm happy when I am in bed with Loretta, co-sleeping, and we have that, like, I'd say 30 minutes before it becomes annoying that she's not going to sleep. There's a window, there's always a window. Actually, I'm going to reduce that. 20 minutes before it becomes annoying that she's not going to sleep. And she's trying so hard not to go to sleep. She comes up with all these conversations, and they're so imaginative, and she's so loving because she doesn't want me to have a go at her for not going to sleep. It's just blissful and peaceful. And we're getting ready for bed. And we're all bathed and relaxed.

31:37And she's just chat, chat, chatting, avoiding sleep. For that 20 minutes. Then after that, that's not what's happy. Yeah. After that, the 20 minutes becomes frustrating. But that window is lovely. It's a happy time. Today's guest is someone I have absolutely loved listening to and watching over the last few years. She's a DJ, she's a presenter. She's just brilliant and she's a mum of two as well. And she's the first guest ever to bring snacks into the studio. It's Ashley James. I had quite a traumatic birth and I think doing it all again with Ada has actually been very healing because it's made me realise that actually my feelings were really valid.

32:17It was really tough the first time round and it wasn't necessarily that I did anything wrong or, you know, that I was being pathetic. Because that's the thing in my mind. I've always prided myself on like having high pain thresholds. So I'll be fine in birth because I've run marathons or, you know, lack of sleep. I was like, I'll be fine because I'm a DJ. So I'm used to a lack of sleep. I'll be fine. And then when I started to really struggle with all of it, I felt pathetic. I was like, people have it worse than you. Like, you know, you should be able to do this. You're being weak willed. You're being pessimistic.

32:46And I really like dug myself down. Yeah. Whereas this time, Ada, she's a very different baby. But it was also the whole thing has been a completely different experience. been amazing and actually I want to give like new mum Ashley a bit of a hug because I'm like it actually was really hard yeah and you did okay yeah when you people listen to conversations about motherhood even if they're 20 years out of that experience they listen to an experience that was similar to their own they feel like connected and they can relate you can even heal years after and I love that that's why I think it's so important those conversations are being had and out there.

33:23Have you heard this thing about flamingos when they become mums? No. I love this idea. I think about it all the time. So when a flamingo becomes a parent, they lose their pink and it takes a few years for their pink to come back. And they say, because they give so much of themselves to their babies, that they lose their pink for a while. And I think that represents a lot of new mums journeys really well. So I like to think that I'm only just starting to find my pink again now that Alf's two and a half. Yeah, isn't that amazing? That makes me really emotional. Yeah, you do look really emotional.

33:53I always think about it now. I'm like, it's like a flamingo. They give everything, like they lose their colour. And I do see it. I see it with so many of my friends who become mums. And I think, you know, it's almost like we're not allowed to talk about it. And that's what makes me sad. If you have a bad birth, it's like, don't scare pregnant people. And of course, don't scare pregnant people. But where do we have a space to be like, I found that really hard. And I know I'm not the first person to have a baby. and I know that I should have expected sleepless nights but I didn't quite understand sleep deprivation to the point that it's like I used to think, oh, well, you know, I'm used to partying so I'll be fine but I didn't really think that the day after I partied I could lie on the sofa and watch Netflix and there was an end to it and it was a choice to an extent.

34:38Obviously, work is work but there was a choice that you knew that would come to an end even if it was like four days, you're like, oh, okay, the end's in sight but with Alfie, you know, he was up every hour for a year and it drove me to insanity but I didn't know when it was going to stop yeah and then I couldn't focus on anything but it was like the rest of the world still expected me to be this highly functional person and I didn't even know who I was or where I was or what day it was and yeah the flamingo pink I think sums up motherhood perfectly

35:19I just love that flamingo analogy. And I can remember in the studio with Ashley just really feeling it, really feeling, I just wanted to burst out crying, to be honest, which happens a lot on this podcast. It makes you think, doesn't it? Do you feel like you're getting your pink back? Do you feel like, you know, I think we all feel that feeling of being depleted and those moments where life all comes together and the kids are all nice together and everyone's smiling and laughing. It can feel like, oh, everything's back in Technicolor. It just really highlighted to me this journey that we're all on and the highs and the lows and the feeling of actually we do give our all.

35:51We give our all. So, yeah, I don't know about you, but it feels like I have little pockets now that feel very much me again. A new version of me, an altered version. I think you have to go through motherhood and change. You're never going to be who you were before, but that's because life has taught you things. And in many ways, life is more textured and layered and just more meaningful than ever. Thank you so much to all of our guests over the years. It's been such an honour to hear your stories. We are eight years in and I never tire of sitting in the studio opposite from someone or on the screen if we have to go virtual and just listening to someone share.

36:29It's something that I never get bored of and I hope that you don't get bored of listening to them either. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm so glad we can be there for you. Before I go though, the tables are being turned and a special someone is going to basically end the podcast in the way that I end the podcast, by asking me some very important questions. Hi everyone, it is Tom here. Hello to my wonderful wife, host of this incredible podcast and most importantly today and appropriately, mother to our fantastic, chaotic, energetic and brilliant boys. Happy Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day to all the mums out there.

37:13Happy Mother's Day to my mum. Since this is a Mother's Day special, I have been given the honour of asking you those questions that you ask everyone at the end of your podcast. And I'm doing it today from your greenhouse, just after watering all of your plants, that I'm struggling to keep alive. Anyway, here we go. I need to try and remember these. Right. If you could write a letter about motherhood to anyone, who would you be to? What would you say? And why? Maybe I added the why. Thank you very much, husband. OK, if I could write a letter. I suddenly realise why everyone gets a little bit at the end of the podcast when I suddenly turn the tables.

38:00If I could write a letter on motherhood, it would be to all the new mums and dads who are finding themselves at the start of their parenting journey and feeling so utterly out of their depth. I think we come into motherhood with a wave of expectation, of ideologies of what we think it's going to look like and feel like. You know, some of us would have gone and visited friends with newborns or cousins or family members and felt what it's like to have a little newborn in our arms and then just hand them over, you know, and left the house going, oh, wasn't that lovely? And suddenly feeling all broody and, you know, excited about what life would be like when you've got that baby in your arms.

38:40It is a different feeling entirely when it is your baby and people leave your sleeping baby and all of a sudden your sleeping baby is no longer sleeping. and it is a wild ride getting through each night and trying to guess at every stage what that cry means what that thing is you know constant googling constant just yearning and searching for for anything that makes the day a little bit brighter um wow uh so yes my um letter would be for anyone new kind of going look you got this and I don't mean this in like a poster kind of you've got this kind of way I just mean this moment is a moment and it will pass so allow yourself the grace to to feel it to know that you're not on your own in it and to know that at some point you're going to be looking back at it and kind of still feeling the emotions as I show as I as I you know I can't I can't not feel them when I talk about certain moments however know that you are constantly leading with love and curiosity for this new wave of life.

39:47Take pride in all the things that you do do, because there'll be many things that slip through the net. But just know that the important bits, they don't slip through. The important bits you are there for, and you can't really go wrong. I mean, we will go wrong. But you know, leave a love. Okay. Then the three questions that you ask everyone, I'm fine. Right back at you. Being a mum means... Go. Being a mum means constantly learning on the job. It's one of those wild dreams where you wake up and you're suddenly put in a position in a new role within the office and suddenly you don't know how anything works.

40:33the printer doesn't work the phone you can't figure out how to dial through to the other person how do you load the printer I don't know everyone wants lunch but you forget to the coffee shop and everything you forgot the order for me being a mum is that it's kind of landing yourself in a role that you had all these expectations of what it was going to be like but the reality is something different and you feel out of your depth and like you don't know what you're doing but actually just simply being there and being mum you have all the tools you've just got to stop all the noise so that you can figure out what tool you need when being a mum is the most rewarding role you can ever take on it's messy it's ugly at times it is the most beautiful raw thing ever to be there for someone to to watch them grow to grow life it's a messy ride but it is one that is totally worth it since having children i have become obsessed with planting tomatoes since having children i sleep less and that is not necessarily from their doing I have this silly thing nowadays where the kids go to bed later because they are now 11, 9 and 6.

41:56And they go to bed slightly later. So by the time I come down after the bedtime, it's quarter to 9, 9 o 'clock. And instead of just going, well, I'll have an hour to myself and then go to bed. No, no, no. I have to have my two, three hours still. So I'm still going to bed at midnight, but then getting up early so that I can get up early and have my shower in place before everyone else gets up for school. so now they're older I'm not sleeping but it's not because they're not sleeping through the night hurrah they eventually do it's because I just like having that little bit of time to myself in the evenings oops and the last one uh oh it's on the tip of my brain hang on a second oh oh oh I got it I got it I'm happy when I'm happy when everyone else in my family is happy.

42:47I can remember Judy Finnegan on the podcast many moons ago saying that you can only be as happy as your unhappiest child. And I totally agree with that. That really hit home. I'm happy when we are always together in the sunshine, in the garden, whether the kids are bouncing around on the trampoline or running around or whether we're playing a game of football and all laughing and, you know, just those moments of just togetherness. because I think one thing that motherhood does tend to show you is the fact that that's the stuff. That's the stuff that when we are old, if we have the privilege of getting old, when we are near the end of our life, that's the thing that we will look back on and be grateful for.

43:30So I'm happy when I'm with my family and we're smiling and just being totally and utterly in the moment. Anyway, before I go, I just wanted to say on behalf of all of your listeners on this podcast, thank you for everything you do and to all of the fantastic guests that come on. I know how important this is to so many people. So congratulations. Mother's Day is the perfect day to celebrate what an incredible achievement this podcast is. So congratulations, honey, and happy Mother's Day. Yeah, that was the mouse. You have a mouse in your greenhouse. Anyway, happy Mother's Day, everyone. I'm going to go back to keeping your plants alive bye thank you for listening and I shall see you next week for another episode of Happy Mum Happy Baby the podcast bye