“I Felt Like the Glass Child”: Becky Cheetham on The Realities of Being a Sibling Carer

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0:37You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. hey it's hannah burner from giggly squad and the holidays are around the corner which means i'm officially entering my hostess hannah era with arm and hammer hardball cat litter you guys know i love cats and fostering but when i'm hosting i do not want my house smelling like cats i want people focusing on my hosting skills that's why i love arm and hammer hardball cat litter it delivers long-lasting odor control and forms compact clumps that make cleanup easy so that's one less thing i need to worry about when people come over.

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3:09Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum. This is a little bit of a different episode. I have been friends with Becky Cheetham for quite a few years now. We have gone on Disney trips together. We've walked up mountains together. She is someone who brings a lot of joy and chaos into my life. She is a whirlwind. For anyone who doesn't know, Becky and her sister Hannah document their lives as siblings. Hannah has a cerebral palsy and Becky is one of her carers. And they show the world what it is to live life to the max. Alongside that, Becky wants to raise awareness of different parts of that.

3:58You know, the fact that they are full of so much joy now. She wants to talk about the fact that it's not always been that way and that actually getting to that point is a bit of a journey. She doesn't want to rose tint everything. So she asked if she could come on and have a good old natter about the role of being a sibling carer. Obviously, any time spent with her is a joy, so I obliged. Because also with Happy Mum, I want this space, we all want this space to be a place where people can come and share their different experiences of what it is to care for others. so here's our chat this is me and Becky Cheatham I think it's probably referencing the fact that we are actually friends going into this chat and that I adore you and have adored you for a long time and I can remember following you and then we got to Disneyland Paris for their 30th it was their 30th wasn't it and I can remember seeing you and Hannah and just being so bloody giddy to see you both.

5:03You ran. I was like, who is this? I thought I was being attacked. Is this like Paris? The happiest place on earth. And I turned around and went, oh my goodness. And that was the first time we'd met properly. And what a great place to be. I couldn't have been happier. Yeah, it was great. But we are here today because you kind of said, and I think within Happy Mum, Right, we try to talk about different areas of mothering, whatever that mothering looks like. And we try to be as inclusive as possible. And then you said, well, what about talking about being a sibling carer? And you know this world, this is your world.

5:46And it felt like a no-brainer. Well, that's kind. Because I just, as I've got older, we've had more messages off people saying I've just had a child with cerebral palsy and you've given us hope so my eyes were opened to new mums even though I'm not a mum myself, a lot of mums message us to say they're grateful and I thought right ok here's where we can make our positive, we've been through all the rubbish are we allowed to swear on this? yeah you can you know that Hannah will want you to swear yeah you're right that's the only word she can say and it made me think we've been through all the shit so let's try and help people either swerve that bit or make it easier and then I was like where can I speak to the mums where can I speak to the parents and the guardians because those are the people who I want to speak to yeah and yes I want to speak to the siblings and say I see you I feel you you're not alone but I want the parents to know that um it's not their fault it's not their fault it's not the child's fault it's nobody's fault it's just a shit situation and that for them to ask them to listen to the sibling yeah without judgment yeah I feel like I had a chat with my mum before I came on here because I said I don't want to offend you I don't you know I want to be honest but I don't want to upset you um and my mum is the best mum their best mum you've met she's just as crazy as me and um she has done everything she can for Hannah and me she's she's never said no to Hannah she's like you can do whatever you want um but we did have a time where I was like I feel like this and she would say, well, at least you can walk.

7:45And then I'd go, oh, OK. Yeah, all right. Yeah, you're right. Being firmly put back into the box. Yeah, at least you can go out with your friends. At least you could. And all I was trying to say, I don't even know what I was trying to say. I'm probably just asking for a bit of attention maybe. Well, it's because life is hard and you still need your mum. Yeah, and you do. And I think, you know, I remember a time we were at a family party and it wasn't a party for Hannah, it was just a family party. And my uncle stood up and said, I just want to give a big shout out to the best family member in the world, like, biggin' her up, Hannah Cheetham.

8:24And I was looking and all my cousins were going, and Becky, and Becky, I was only young at the time. And I ran off crying to the toilet and then came back and my mum said, have you stopped being silly now? And that stuck with me and it was just... little things like that along the way that keep happening and have happened and keep building and I want to speak to the new parents to say just try not to yeah yeah um let's talk about the two of you and starting bits online because I think what's really fascinating is is the fact that you have shared so much joy through the two of you, but you also raise so much awareness.

9:13And I think what you're doing now and the reason why you're doing it, and forgive me if you're like, I don't know why I'm doing it, there is a leap, right, from the understanding that parenthood is maybe not going to look how you thought it would to getting to where you are now. Yeah. there's a leap. And sometimes that can feel like such, so far away and so unattainable that people don't even know where to start. So I think it's actually, you've shared the joy. And actually it's really important, I think, to kind of go, but this has happened along the way. Oh yeah. We cannot rose tint everything.

9:54No, and I think, I mean, whilst our content is positive, because I think it's important too, we do share the bad days but I intentionally don't do it in real time because I think it's important to process that yourself before you then share it with the world I'm more than happy to share it with the world but I think it's important that we've processed it we've dealt with it as a family and then gone well this happened yeah but I think I mean our childhood was great like as a whole you know before teenagers we got really well we kind of went to holidays and then I think hormones came into play and um I resented Hannah a lot and um never said it to her face but we kind of backed off from each other because I was um constantly feeling second best and it's not nothing big has to happen for for a child a sibling her to feel like that I think it's just the constant um hannah needs more attention and i'm i'm more than aware like i'm aware of that yeah but it's the constant just give me two minutes i need help my homework i'm just still i'm just giving hannah a tea um mum can i get this i'm just doing this like it's just the constant whereas usually i guess it would that's to say in my house if i'm saying hold on a second you know it's that hold on a second will change all the time to who I'm saying it to.

11:18Yeah, definitely. And I think over time, I don't know, it's chips away at you and then you become angry. And this, I mean, when I was, I think I was about 18 and we'd already started the list, we started doing the content and stuff and funny enough, I had shared the joy, you're right, me and Hannah learned to ski and Hannah had done her bit and like done skiing and I'd filmed it and then it was my turn and I turned around and everyone had gone right so my my sister gets really cold and the both my mum and dad thought oh we'll go with Hannah and I turned around and literally no one was there I was 18 and I did it I had a great time and I lost my mind I was like how dare you you know I was angry I was so angry and they said they they didn't accept it they were like what you know like defensive um and that is when I stood up for myself really yeah because I knew I wasn't wrong how was that received not well but again my mum and dad are great they've just taken this role of being really fiercely protective of Hannah yeah um I was I wonder if as parents if there's that thing of constantly second-guessing what you're doing trying to get it right absolutely And then having that understanding of, hold on, we've really not focused on this area at all.

12:45We've not focused on what Becky needs. Yeah, we've had that chat now. We've had that chat. You're older, you can have those conversations. Yeah, but at that time, they were just fiercely protective of Hannah and couldn't see. I was selfish in their eyes. I was selfish for asking for them to, as you're a fully grown adult, why are you asking me to watch me to ski? but in my mind I was back being an eight-year-old watch me watch me learn how to ski and you've turned around you've gone yeah so there's just been moments like that over the years and as a teenager I did resent Hannah and I did blame her and it's not her fault she can be mischievous and she can she can stir up shit but it's not it wasn't her fault and I think you can as a sibling care you can either go one of two ways you can either be angry for the rest of your life or you can accept it and have them conversations communication was wasn't had yeah communication that is so important that even though the parents it must hurt their heart to hear me say i'm really fucking mad that my sister's got a disability and it's ruined my life I can't imagine hearing that is pleasant but it's not an attack at my mum and dad and it's not an attack at Hannah it's just the situation as a whole which is also never said it's very rare that people will be heard saying that I don't think anything about this is spoken about because I hear from people like me who say thank you I hear from parents who say thank you I actually funnily enough it popped up on my Facebook last night I don't know who they are, a mum and dad.

14:29And the dad was asking for advice for the sibling. He said, I have an autistic child. I know how to handle meltdowns. What I don't know how to handle is a child that gets constantly pushed away. And what can I do to make it better? And that was lovely to see because it was like just being aware of it. Because as a child, was there ever a point where you were aware of the responsibility that was placed on you? You know what I mean? Being looked at like, you should just know. You know how to be, even though you're the younger sibling, to kind of, I don't know. You know your place. You know your...

15:10Yeah, it was just the mum look, isn't it? Yeah. And I guess you give that mum look for plenty of different reasons. but if I was to act out or to storm off or to this isn't fair you just got the look at your situation look where Hannah is you know and I guess the I mean I went to when I was eight I joined a charity called Young Carers Stop But Young Carers and there's so many charities by the way of this nature all over the UK. And they just took us out once a week to be a child. We went bowling. How did that... Can you remember? A social worker. A social worker told my mum, I think, and you just signed up.

15:59Obviously, funding is rubbish now, so they do focus more on people who care for parents and things like that. But it's so important to me that living carers aren't left behind because there's a... You know, there's a physical demand on the people who care for parents, but I think there's a massive emotional side to sleeping carers that people get forgotten about. But, yeah, they just used to take us bowling. We went on, like, weekends away, and you basically were just allowed to be a kid. Yeah, I met some of my best friends there, and you just knew. You just knew each other. You know, it's a weird thing to sit and say, oh, you know, I feel like this from being a carer, and someone who's not a carer going, that sounds weird or that sounds rude or whatever.

16:42And they're like, yeah, I get it. So from eight to 18, I was, yeah, had good friends. It must be very weird to have people that aren't in your situation and really don't know what that's like. Having people potentially say, oh, you shouldn't say that. Yeah. And you not saying it. Yeah. It took me a long, long time. And I still don't say it. For me to sit here and say I resented Hannah is a massive thing. Like, I would never. and isn't it weird because I say to mums when they're on all the time and they say something like that and they'll say oh but I love them so much like I almost feel like I have to caveat you're allowed to feel your love for that person does not diminish that is absolute but people you do because if I said like you know you've got a sister the closest thing I really resent them the next thing following up should be or feels like it should be, but I love them so much.

17:39And it was never like this. Because we're taught that, we're taught as a society that you should feel guilty about these things. And, you know, and that is why me and my family got in such a tiff about it, because we never said these things. Because one, it didn't want to be heard. And two, I felt awful for saying them. And I know so many people who, you know, young carers who just think, there's no way I can come out of my mouth. Yeah. But, you know, I was actually on a trip with the charity when I found out I was going to uni. I got the email in the morning and I was like, oh, everyone's so happy.

18:17And then I melt down because how could I leave Hannah? And my mum has never said she's your responsibility, ever. Really? Yeah. But she is because I've made her that. It's my fault. But I just had this instant, like, I can't leave. They need me. What was that time like?

18:44Outside, out of mind, maybe. Really? Yeah. I came home quite a bit. Well, I went to do children's nursing, so I became a children's nurse. Isn't that funny, right? You've got a life that is about caring for others. Yeah. That you would imagine with that comes that sense of, you know, wanting to pour love in in some way or wanting to do something that's more driven for you. But actually, you go into a profession that is about caring for others. I always think about this. I always think, if I didn't have Hannah, would I be the person I am? Or was I born like this? Yeah. And I guess we'll never know.

19:23being away at uni would that have been the first time where you weren't potentially hannah sister yeah no one knew her well no i'll say that's the first time actually we went to the same primary school yeah because the primary school we went to was the only primary school so it's a mainstream primary school but had a resource base so hannah was in the mainstream classes so we went to the same one then we went to different high schools right so people knew me as becky there and i didn't really tell anyone about her didn't you no and then as you're like is there any guilt that comes up with that now or was there any point any any part that kind of felt like you were sort of not hiding i mean as if you just don't want to be picked on for any reason and i know that sounds really again this is must be awful for parents to hear because you're you think that you're hiding a part of you I think I think no matter how um much you love your sibling at that age you're just you won't do anything to walk out of place yeah um so only my friend my closest friends kind of knew it's funny now because all like loads of people follow us and they're like oh you know she's amazing and they probably would have been fine at the time but I just think you don't do anything to look different or act different or be different um and again hannah had her own friends at her own school yeah it was fine yeah it was it was nice i think what were things like even before high school between you both between at home i don't know any different yeah so we people don't people don't people are like you're so mean to each other oh she also means to Hannah I'm like are you not mean to your sister that means we love each other in this house like I think we've always just played she's never been wrapped in cotton wool from our family so we've just you know I bury her in the sand on holiday she waxed me over the head with a spade it's it was just kidding I don't know any I don't know any different I don't know what it's like to have a sibling without a disability so you know I think and we've got a little cousin, Bella, who's nine, and she is what I imagine I was like with Hannah, just chatting away to her.

21:51Hannah's rolling her eyes. I think it was fine. I think it's just until you start to see the difference in the world and start to feel angry that you have constantly been told to be quiet and go away. and there's a thing called the glass child. Yep. Have you heard of it? Yes, only because of you. Well, it's basically, I don't know who came up with it, but sibling carers get called it because they are essentially see-through. So they are looked through. So everybody focuses on the child with a disability. The sibling is stood to the side. And I saw it when I was a children. nurse I saw it I tried so hard to bring that sibling into the conversation because you're like so focused on the other child that they are see-through if my mum would have heard the term glass child I'm sure she would have maybe worded some things differently or give me a bit of time separately you know I remember just I know this sounds really bad but like looking for attention elsewhere but not like I wouldn't make things up I wouldn't I was just constantly like hi please you know please love me and not because my mum and dad didn't yeah but because I just wanted someone to say I'm proud of you I wanted someone to see me um and whilst I don't regret anything that we've done as a family because we are a very strong unit now I think I would love to save some other families heartache by saying it's okay yeah it's okay because I don't know what it's like to be a parent of someone with a disability I don't know that I don't know that hurt that they've gone through I don't know having a life planned out for someone and it being totally different yeah um I don't know their side but I know that if I was listened to more or seen more then I might not have been so angry did you ever have conversations about Hannah and about the situation?

24:02Just arguments. Really? Yeah. Because we just both was not understanding of each other. Yeah. And because it's complex, right? Like, your mum and dad would be carrying so much... Well, again, they're not here, we can't speculate. I can imagine so much grief for what maybe life would have looked like otherwise. the Hannah's future not looking like what they had maybe envisaged feeling like well they've got you and you're going to go off and do all these things and but actually realising that even though they've tried it's just there is someone else in the picture yeah I think luckily my mum and dad are glass half full kind of people and that has shaped as a family how we've dealt with a lot of stuff you know Hannah was so she was born two weeks late they actually don't really fully know who was at fault but basically she was born not breathing, they didn't have oxygen in the room so by the time they ran her out by the time they'd done it her brain had been damaged and that's what caused her cerebral palsy Hannah lives with a mum and dad now which is the other side of why you do what you do as well I've seen you say that you're literally doing what you are now to generate the funds so that in the future, when Hannah's living with you, that you can have everything in place so that she has a comfortable life.

25:40Yeah, I think it's, and that's a scary, only now am I looking to that future with a bit of, I don't even know. It's complex. Yeah, sadness, worry, stress, joy. I think I always, it's hard. And this, again, I always, if I meet new parents of a child with complex needs, I always say, please widen your circle. Please, please, please widen your circle. Find people you trust, but please widen it. Because we had a very small circle. and me, my grandma, my grandma's now 85, my mum and dad, that's it. So my grandma's older. When my mum and dad go away, it's a wake-up call to me that I'm like, it's just me.

26:36Obviously, I've got, you know, my partner Lucy, but it's just me and we've done that to ourselves where we, like, don't trust people. And I know it's so hard to trust people to look after your child. I can't imagine that. But I am feeling the repercussions of... Is that right? Yeah. I'm feeling the repercussions of what's to come, I think. Because I can't do this on my own for... And I don't want to. And that is awful to say. How does that feel, saying that? Awful, I've never said it. I've never said that.

27:15And I don't think I'd want her to hear that. I think when you have that responsibility that's waiting for you at some point and you're trying to plan your life and think about what that looks like but you know that you have this responsibility there I think it's... I think we're allowed to say stuff if that's how we're feeling. Yeah. And it's not... And I don't say... I want Hannah to live with me. It's I don't want her to live with me and I'm the person that takes it all on. That's a big weight of responsibility to just know that it's coming for you at some point. Yes. And plus, you know, like you said about your nan getting older, your mum and dad are getting older.

28:00It's not like they're not going to not be here and then suddenly that's your responsibility. Looking after Hannah is your responsibility. It's the fact that at some point it's going to have to fall on you and they are going to have to take a step back. No, and I think we, as a family, regret not encouraging Hannah to move out with carers. Really? Yes. How do you, do you talk to her at all about? Yeah, she doesn't want to. Right. Again, because I think in the past we've made mistakes where if she's been kicking off, we've gone, if you don't stop, you're going to be moving out. And she's gone. I think so many of us say silly things.

28:40Yeah, and she's taken it to heart. and she's like well if it's such a bad place i aren't going anywhere yeah that doesn't sound nice no and she is more than happy to sit in between my mom and dad on a saturday night watching strictly um it's just about in that time it might be uncomfortable like i don't trust people to look after her so i can't imagine how my mom and dad feel but you've got to push back you've got to widen that circle because it's going to be left to one person at the end.

29:12And I show as hell I ain't sending her anywhere when it's down to me. But equally, I can't do that on my own. Yeah. I don't want to do that on my own. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance.

29:55Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST.

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31:46Do you feel like the love and the bond between you because of what you do has solidified further? Hannah just brings so much joy. she is what has really helped she doesn't care that she's got cerebral palsy a lot of people do have anger that they have a disability whereas Hannah, I'll say are you upset that you have cerebral palsy? She says no I'll say would you change it if you could? No mainly because she gets a blue badge parking that was her answer but I think I'm grateful for that because you've seen like she has the most joyous energy over she just feels so deeply she feels so deeply so deeply I mean we took her for a little walk didn't we as a trek and just her being able to join us for that bit she was squealing with joy she's so um grateful for the little things and I have got to see that more deeply through what we do.

32:57By showing you guys how much she feels joy, I have seen it more. I definitely have. She doesn't say no for an answer. She will throw herself out of a plane. She thinks she's indestructible, which is good for you. And that is because of all the women in her life that have told her that she can. I think your family set up and the fact that it is a lot of strong ladies it does fill me with joy thank you and I know that that is there's so much complexity that comes with it yeah but for your mum to have your nan and to kind of sort of have that heads down get on with that attitude well Lucy came when she came into the family she got shocked she was like you're all the same woman oh lord yeah

33:58yeah you're all stubborn you're all um strong-willed ladies yeah um and I am grateful to do that I think I'm grateful to have my glass half full because I just think even though all of this maybe does sound negative if we're listening back I am actually really I'm happy I'm grateful we've worked through a lot of things um a disability well to each person of the family a disability shouldn't stop you being joyful there's so much joy to have out there you you can be angry that you get somewhere and the lift is broke and you can be fuming about that for weeks but like okay well if you've got past that you've gone to a different station Look what happened that day.

34:46I just, I think a lot of families are stuck on being angry all the time. Do you think some of the anger, though, is also fear?

35:04I don't know. I don't know. All I see is anger. I obviously don't feel it, maybe, I presume. but it comes across as anger yeah but i'm not just talking we're allowed to be angry yeah but i'm talking if it consumes your life you're wasting a beautiful life you're allowed to be angry that that things haven't turned out the way you want um and that you're worried about your child and this and another and on a day when you're having a mad day and yeah the lift doesn't work and life is inaccessible blah blah but when you're angry 24 7 you're just missing out on a beautiful beautiful child yeah beautiful world people look at hannah and think oh god what a sad life she's got the best life ever she has got and she tells me that she's got the best life ever and i just think you're missing out on what your child can't do if you're worried about what they can't yeah yeah look at what they can yeah what they can achieve look at what they they can take in and absorb and yeah they can give yeah i absolutely and it's the same for any child not and not have all child children grow the same do they like i think if you're worried oh my child can't spell and like you know well what can they do instead i think we need to be a a society of championing people's talents and things they can do and the world we can see.

36:35The world is becoming more... There is a space for people with disabilities now. I think there's a lot out there that you can do. Yeah. And it's just important that we remember that on the hard days, I think. How does it make you feel now, looking back at your childhood and being a sibling carer in your younger years? I'm grateful for it. Are you? Yeah. I wouldn't be who I am without it. I also don't know any different. I could be a horrible person. I could not have a caring bone in my body. I don't know any different. Yeah. I'm grateful for the person I've turned out to be. it's brought me a lot of friends it's brought me it's opened my eyes to the world I think um there's young carers everywhere you look and you wouldn't know about it really yeah I mean schools are getting more educated on it now but I think it's still important to highlight if you're a teacher you know are they young carer what extra support do they need or if you are in a group if you are speaking to that disabled child and then they're stood next to them ask them their name it's not they weren't even asked their name before I think they're just known as that person's sister or that person's brother and over time like now it does hurt my heart when you see the comments and they say where's Hannah?

38:14We're only here for Hannah. Or just, I'm 33 now. And it just takes me back to being that child of, what's your name again? Who are you? Yeah. Being a ghost. And it's funny because people can be trolls all day long. They can comment on our appearances. Funny, hilarious. Agree with half of them. But when someone says that, it just hits something I haven't tapped into yet. Yeah. did you feel different as a child did you feel like your family was different to others I always knew that people looked at Hannah which I hated I just think now we just go smile and wave there's something very different as well about you finding your sibling annoying but someone else does it back the fuck up literally actually funny story I hope my prime school doesn't come for me with this, but we was in the same prime school and a kid was making fun of Hannah.

39:17Right. So I kicked him and Hannah ran over his toe. And we were like, bye. And we stuck together. So yeah, I could absolutely be ripping her apart and someone else joins in, absolutely not. Yeah. Absolutely fucking not. And then as a child, when you are sort of screaming to fit in and to be like everyone else, To be aware of people staring. Yes. How did that make you feel? Why are people gawping? Like, why are you... Just smile. It's very hard, actually, because I think... And this is a split preference. Some disabled people say, do not ask me what's wrong with me. Right. Whereas I'm like, come and ask away.

40:04Hannah says, come and ask away. Because more often than not, it's kids. Yeah. Why can't you walk? once they know then they go on with their life whereas and this is yeah this is a I always like to share this as well because um more than more often than not a child will be gawping and the parents will go shh no don't don't look don't look go go go go go that child goes oh my god I cannot look at someone in a wheelchair ever again and that'll be it they'll be scarred for life can't speak about them can't look at them we're like distance ourselves from society i would urge you to just there and then just say say oh this you know this person probably can't use a legs like we can um say hi okay and then when you've gone use that moment to teach yeah we're more than happy for you to come and ask a lot some people aren't so it's um like you said it's it's such a personal thing right and how do you ever know what the correct thing is because everyone is so different and yeah you know but then I guess the same if I asked you a really personal question yeah you might answer me or you might go fuck off yeah so he's got me ready ready for either yeah and if you want to because I do if I've been chatting to obviously I do for my ADHD if I want to speak to someone and I've been talking to you know when I'll say oh do you mind me asking what your condition is they're either going to say yes or no so you're either going to get your answer but i just think you're not being curious if you're not being curious to be nosy if you're doing it to raise awareness and to understand more i i don't see a problem with that yeah if you're doing it to teach your child like this this is a disabled person this is how we treat them as normal as everyone else let's go on with our day the child will not think twice about it It's you that's making it awkward.

41:53I wonder how much of it is just showing them just a very normal interaction as well. Yeah. Hi. Hi, her. Like you, the boys at Disneyland, they were great because you're great with it. You know, when, and I said, oh, have you had someone in your life with disabilities? You're like, no, not really. But you're just treating Hannah as if you tripped me. Slightly better. They took their racing very seriously. They did take their racing very seriously. and that's what it is isn't it I think it's down to racing wheelchairs and buschairs I think it's just about having a normal interaction and I always say if you're an introvert or you feel like nervous about it I would rather be embarrassed that that person hasn't spoke back to me than be embarrassed to speak over their head and then them answer for themselves and you go oh my god I look like a red dick I would rather say you alright mate and then a carer go yeah yeah yeah they're having a good day rather than go are they alright and they go yeah I'm fine if someone does that to Hannah so if someone will say to me is she having a good day I'll turn to Hannah and I'll go are you having a good day and she's like yeah and then I'm like well I've not been rude to you but I have just shown you that she's capable of answering herself so looking for the human yeah the human to human connection because why would I look over your head yeah Is Giovanna alright?

43:19Is she having a good day today? Say it really slowly like Melvinic. Yeah, yeah. Is she alright? I just, it baffles me. And I, but I never set out to say I know everything about disabilities. We never set out for any of it. We just set out to show you that no matter if you have a disability or you don't, this life is worth living to the full because it's too short. and it's too short to not have fun. Yeah. What about you and your future and having kids of your own? So, funnily enough, I always wanted to be a mum. Really? Yes. But did I want to be a mum because that's what you did? Yeah, and that's what you see.

44:06And that's what you see. I play with girls. And the fact that you've got that line of very strong women, that's what they do. Yeah, that's what they do. They give birth to other girls. Yeah, and they become even more stronger. And then I met Lucy. Yeah. And she really wanted to be a mum. She's like, you know, when I proposed to her, she said, yeah, if we can have kids. And I said, yeah, sure. You know, yeah. I got to this point where I thought, either way, you know, I don't really know. And then as we've got older, it's turned from a conversation of when we have kids to if we have kids. Right.

44:47As a lesbian couple, it's not easy to just... You can't have a one-night stand. Can't have a one-night stand. Kind of wish we could, because then, you know, fate decides. Yeah.

44:58And I've never said this out loud, but do I want more responsibility? Chelsea. And this is the problem with not being able to have a one-night stand. You can think this forever. You can talk yourself out of it. Will I be a good mum? Will, you know, what if my child has a disability? And that is a fucking awful thought to have because, of course, I would love the child no matter what. But do I want to do this again? You know, I felt like a mum to Hannah. I felt like a mum to Bella. Is it going to be different? am I going to push them two out by having kids? There's so many things to think of, and it costs a lot.

45:40Yeah. So how do you work through that in your head? I haven't. We're just, I mean, I'm 33 now. Oh, you're getting on. I am really getting old. Yeah, I'm unsure whether, well, obviously all of this has played a part, but then you have other people who are carers who want a massive family because that's all they know so what in your head does happiness look like in your future

46:13um being content with our situation and the world around us happiness kids or not maybe hannah with us but her own life i think that's important for her as well and just the simple things. Simple things in life of sitting and watching TV together, going to the beach together, but also having that time alone. I honestly, and we've been on Copper Treks together, this last one in Montenegro, I've never felt my cup has been filled before and this I finally felt like when I come home I was thinking what's everyone talking about? The cup's been filled I just feel as stressed and annoyed as ever but this time I came back with patience and love and understanding and I've never felt like that so I think now I understand what I need to be that person and knowing that whatever does come in the future then knowing how the things that you have to put in place to kind of make sure that you're pouring that love inwards.

47:29Well, I need to side the guilt. I've never been travelling because how could I do that without Hannah? I've never done certain things. Or if I do, I'm like, well, Hannah would really like to come to this. And Lucy's going, well, it's just me and you. And I go, well, Hannah's got no one to take her. So it's a very difficult situation and a complex situation that not a lot of people understand. But I think it's about going, no, this is now I need time with my partner and my family so that I can come back and we can do fun things. I think it's about splitting that time maybe. Yeah. I think that's good.

48:09Thank you. If you could write a letter... What am I going to say? What am I going to say? Wait, I don't know. If you could write a letter on being a sibling carer, who would it be to and what would you say? I would write my letter to families just like mine so to the parents and guardians I'd say please listen to your child and acknowledge their feelings even if it hurts your heart to the child with the disability I would say we don't blame you and we love you very much and to the sibling carer I'd say I'd see you and your feelings are valid and then to the family as a whole this isn't anybody's fault it's just a difficult situation to navigate and communication is key.

48:52I love the fact that you've you've gone for a you've addressed everyone. Yeah I feel I can't leave anybody out. Yeah I think it's important otherwise it is a family situation. Yeah. Yes I am a sibling carer and yes I have got these feelings but I acknowledge that there's other people in the family too who also have feelings. So part of you raising awareness about being a sibling carer is not to kind of go look at me yeah it's about going i'm a part of this as well yeah yeah and that's all we want is to be seen and not to be a glass child yeah um and to be asked our names and to be given time on our own yeah to be not known as someone's sibling we actually I love looking after Hannah I love helping people that's not the problem the problem is that when you go through teenage years you're going to have these feelings that aren't very nice feelings and someone needs to go that's okay that's okay you are such an over thinker don't tell everyone that No, you are.

50:10And I do think that a large part of your overthinkingness is because you care so much. How much of that overthinking do you think has come from your childhood? Yeah, a lot. I think I have a million thoughts a minute anyway. and I think from me saying the wrong thing as a child and getting that look from my mum and I go, oh my gosh, I shouldn't have said that. And I just want people to like me and I hate saying that as an adult because I just want... It all comes down to that inner you, doesn't it? That inner child of wanting to be loved and wanting to be perfect and I worry that me saying the wrong thing make someone not like me.

51:02My wish for you, as your friend, is that you grow a little bit more of a fuck it attitude. I could take some off, Hannah. Because you are never going to be able to please everyone. You are never going to ensure that your actions are pleasant to someone else. are, like, you don't know what that person's going through that day. You don't know what they're carrying. Them liking you is not your responsibility. If you're going through life in the way that you are, leading with kindness, compassion, joy, fun. Becky, you are an exceptional human as you are. So keep going forward in life and spreading your joy.

51:51and who the fuck cares if people don't, if that's not people's cup of tea? What are you doing to me? Look, we all have our toast at different shades. Yes, we do. We all have our teas at different shades, our coffees. We like our humans in different, you know, in different personality types and stuff. Like, fuck it. Yeah, I think it just comes from a place of wanting everything to be happy and wanting everything to be good. you know like that whole not messing anything up any further I think because you just you see that life is stressful for my parents for Hannah and you're just like oh how can I make a joke and make it like humor is my defense and I think how can I in those times keep everybody together and everybody happy yeah um and inadvertently piss people off at the same time

52:47you keep spreading your crazy joy my love you keep doing that thank you so we end the podcast although i've adopted your sentences for you um being a sibling carer means it means having responsibilities that you didn't ask for but becoming a more empathetic kind and caring person because of it. Yeah, I love the whole nature-nature thing and I love the fact that it's probably deepened qualities within you that would absolutely have been there but strengthen them. Would they have been there? I reckon you would have been a right bitch. Yeah, I think so too. I can be. We can all be. No, yeah, it blows my mind.

53:34Would I have been a nurse? I love those qualities about me. And I am grateful that Hannah has given that to me. Next sentence. If I could tell you one thing, it would be?

53:55And I know it's easy for me to say this coming out the other side and I'm not a parent, but try and not hang on to the anger for your whole life. I really hope people don't go, it was easy for you to say because I've had anger as well. And my mum and dad have had anger. But the more you're hanging on to that anger and resentment, you're missing out on a beautiful life. Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy when?

54:27I struggle to answer because I have two. Is it up a mountain with me? That was my second one. that was actually my second one i didn't say with you

54:43i'm happy when i'm happy when i'm making other people happy yeah i love giving presents and i love bringing joy and making people laugh and it makes me happy but when i'm truly happy was dancing up a mountain with you

55:07Becky thank you thank you for having me I really appreciate it thank you you know I think the world of you and I think as you discover more and as you share more I I just think you're going to scoop more and more people up and I hope that little bits of you keep healing as well thank you and thank you for having me and you know how much I love you what a love first

55:33Thank you.

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