I survived postpartum psychosis — here's what I want you to know

0:05Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum, happy baby weather the podcast. Today's guest is someone who has actually been a part of the Happen Mad Baby family before because she wrote an amazing blog post for us around postpartum psychosis. The guest is Jade Lloyd, I can tell you that, it's not a surprise. And Jade was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis when her baby was four months old. And it's astonishing talking to Jade and hearing her story because there were so many times in that four months where she asked for help. And I think so much in this podcast, you We talk about maternal mental health and how, you know, just speak up, just talk, just ask for help.

0:46And I think what is particularly crushing about Jade's story is the fact that she did ask for help on repeat. And she gave birth during COVID. So obviously we all know that so many people fell through the cracks when it came to COVID. It felt like everyone that she turned to, she was just being told that, hey, it's a new mum thing. Don't worry. I get teary in this conversation. I think it's always so brave when people talk about these topics. And obviously, I think for all of us, it chucks up different things for that. Obviously, there is a trigger warning attached to this episode. We talk about difficult topics, including depression, postpartum psychosis, suicidal thoughts.

1:25So it might be a difficult listen for some. So if you're feeling like it might not be the one for you, that's absolutely fine. It's fine to step aside, like get out of this one. there are so many different episodes you can listen to you maybe come back to this one another day when you're feeling in a better place and there's also loads of links that we're going to put in the show notes to some organisations and resources that you can help if you are struggling but if you think that you or someone you know may have developed symptoms of postpartum psychosis you can ask to speak to your GP immediately or call 111 which is something that I really urge you to do Jade is amazing she is just such a phenomenal woman I just don't think I've ever met anyone in real life that is more Miss Honey than Jade.

2:08She has this gorgeous gentleness, this warmth, this delicate touch, this lightness about her. To know that something so dark and heavy has happened to her, that it can happen to anyone, I just think it amplifies that. It doesn't matter who you are, what you do, what your normal temperament is. these things can happen. So another reminder to check in on new mums, mums who have been doing it in a few months and maybe disappeared. I think it gets that first six weeks, there are so many guests around and so many people there kind of going, is there anything you need? What do you want? What do you want?

2:47So many people want to come over and hold your baby. And then there's that moment after that six weeks where that disappears and you are on your own to sit with those thoughts, to sit with whatever you are. And I think it's at that point actually where things can really start taking hold. So just reach out to the parents in your lives and just check in on them, see if they're okay. Jade is a delight. As someone who has used her experience and turned it into something really powerful in sharing that message, sharing her experience in the hope that it will help other people. I think there's so much bravery in that.

3:23So on to today's episode. Please have a listen. we were talking about the fact that you always wanted to be a mum yes yeah so I would daydream like what house I wanted to have and I always said I wanted four children really yeah and then I met my husband he was one of four right and yeah and I think I remember saying it to him he was like you sure um and then obviously we had our daughter and yeah it was like okay I think we're one and done. Was there a moment where you both went, right, actually maybe now is the time where we focus on starting a family? Yeah. So we got married in September 2019.

4:02Yeah. And then in the January 2020, we started trying. It was actually, I remember it was on my birthday, March the 11th. It was announced that it was a global pandemic. And I was like, what should we do? Should we be trying? And I remember going to the doctors and I mentioned that we were trying and I said, oh, do you think we should considering what's going on? And they said, oh, no, I think maybe you should. Oh, really? Yeah. Like, we don't know what it can, yeah, how it can affect pregnant people. Like, maybe just put it on the back burner. So I thought, like, OK. And we kind of agreed. We'll, I'll still stay off of the contraception.

4:42Contraception, yeah. But we just won't, we won't actively try. And I think this is then when it tends to happen. Yeah, we actually know when it happens. Do you remember when you, like during COVID, and you would have those like, online Zooms with all of your friends? You didn't do it online. As I was saying, I was like, what friendship group do you have? We're not swingers or anything like that. Swingers that couldn't be together. So then when you found out you were pregnant, what was that like? Were you anxious then because of what the doctor had said? Yeah, a little bit, but I was more excited.

5:29Oh my God, I was just completely obsessed with my bump. And you know when you're determined that you have a bump and really looking back, I'm like, I have more of a bump now. it's so true what was your pregnancy like I had the kind of usual morning sickness but it wasn't it didn't really come to anything it was it just felt like I was hung over it doesn't take much to make me gag anyway but I would be gagging in the work toilets but I was just so excited really yeah I did I've like did all the hypnobirthing so so were you excited then about heading towards the birth with the hypnobirthing oh my god I was so excited really I planned for an at-home water birth as well I think because we'd moved into our dream home at this point and I'd decorated it and how and it was really like serene and so I was really excited and then everything was kind of fine and then we had I think it was one of my last scans and she was measuring started to measure big Right.

6:34So the consultant said, you know, we really don't know if you should be having a home birth because of the chance of like shoulder dysplasia. I think that's how you say it. And I was like, oh, no, like I really, really wanted. And Tom couldn't come into the meetings with me. Right. and Tom's very good at being like direct and I've always I'm definitely better now that since have like becoming a mum but pre I was like oh I don't want to cause any issues and I just said oh okay I'll have a think about it and they said you know we really need to think about putting a date in the diary for you to be induced so I was due on the 29th of December and they ended up booking me in for an induction on the 26th so the day it's a boxing day and your midwife that you were seeing at home and how are you doing your hypnobirthing was that on like that was yeah the positive birth company yeah I know um so I guess in that way then you couldn't really consult anyone about what they'll get reassurance from them either yeah and I remember looking because my midwife was in with me in with the consultant and I looked over at her and she kind of looked like she was like we can't really do anything like I agree it was almost like she was agreeing without saying it because you you do turn to that person in the room like for for that maybe that reassurance or that nudge of what the right thing to do is because you know whether there's a right or like it's kind of you need because it feels like such a world that we really don't know yeah just to have someone go yeah yeah I agree with them yeah and I think I was really hoping that she was going to be like no we can have a home birth and I was I thought well if I have a I said you know I'm happy to come into hospital but I'd really love a water birth yeah and they He said, you know, if you're being induced, the chances are you probably aren't going to be able to do a water bath.

8:44So come Boxing Day, we went and they started the induction. How did you feel going in that day? I think I was just ready. I just thought because everyone was saying, you know, you can't have an at home. You get to the point as well because you're so uncomfortable. You're like, just get this baby out. So you've come to terms already with the fact that it's not going to be the birth that you thought it would be. Yeah, I think I was deep down, I was really sad. And even the morning of, I was like, just hoping. I was like, oh, can you just start coming? And I just thought, OK, I've got to, at that point, when you haven't had one before as well, you just put your trust into the professionals and you just assume that they know you best.

9:31But now looking back, I just don't think Penelope was ready to come out because it was a nearly three day labor. I think it was like two days in, in the morning, they said, oh, they'd already broken my waters. And then the morning after, they were like, OK, you're ready to push. So I've been pushing for about an hour, but nothing seemed to be happening. and the midwife said like I'm just gonna have to get the consultant to come in just to check a few things and what they figured out was that Penelope's head was facing like this way down the birth canal which made complete sense because I think it was pushing against my right hip and because I could fit even though I had an epidural I remember feeling like a dull ache and they said you know we're gonna have to take you into theatre and we're gonna have to either do a c-section or you can do a vontus and then a forcep delivery and like what would you prefer and I said oh can I do the cesarean because I just didn't want because they said if it doesn't if the vontus doesn't work we're gonna have to then do a cesarean so I was like I don't want to be cut down there and then cut like in two different places so I said can I do the cesarean and then I remember the consultant went, oh, why do you want to do that?

10:54I was like, oh. And at this point I was just so tired and I was just like, well, I guess because I don't want to be cut in two places and I just think let's just do it that way. And she said, well, the problem is is she's already down the birth canal. But why give that to you as an option or say that's the route you're going to have to go down if that's not an option? I know. And looking back now, I'm like, yeah, why? Why did you give that to me? And then they said, you know, and if we pull her back, there's a risk in pulling her back out. Right. And it could do some damage. Yeah. So I was like, obviously, I'm not going to do that.

11:32So, OK, let's just try the Vontooth. which then and they then rushed not well I did feel a bit like a rush we'd gone from my hypnobarthing room dull lights my neon diffuser my fairy lights my Taylor Swift and then I was wheeled down to the bright lights in the theatre and I remember my body just went into complete shock and it was just shaking and Tom was holding one hand and I had to say to the lady next to me like please can you hold my hand and I was just petrified but I was so ready to meet her and they managed to turn her head and then they pulled her out via forceps and then meeting her was just oh my god it's just you can't don't you wish you could just bottle that feeling but you also had an instant bond like your your bond was very yes yeah yeah it was yeah like almost I don't know if I said this in the blog post that I did, but it was almost like too much, like too much love that I just didn't know what to do with it.

12:34And I was so overwhelmed. And I was like, oh, my God, like, I love her so much. And but then I looked down at her and she had this graze on her face. And I noticed that she had a black eye and she couldn't really open her eye. Right. And I was like, oh, my God, you've like, I've failed you. like I've brought you into the world and you've you're like black and blue and I just felt this immediate like guilt and was it because of the forceps that she had yeah um and I remember the midwife I said to her I was like what's that on her face and she said oh I just think it's a bit of dried blood and you just know don't you I was like that's not and for I think my husband said that there must have been another emergency.

13:25And when we were wheeled back to our room, she weighed her, and then she left. And we were on our own with Penelope for about four hours, and I was so tired, and I was in and out of sleep. Tom was kind of, you know, just holding Penelope. And then a midwife came in, and she was like, Oh, how are you doing? How's the feeding going? And I was like, Oh, I haven't fed her. And then she went, her face just went, oh, okay, I'm just going to get a few things and then I'm going to come right back and we'll get right on that. And I was like, oh, my God, I haven't fed my baby. Like, she's been here for four hours and I didn't even know that I had to feed her.

14:07And I just felt, again, just this massive wave of just sadness that I was like, I should have known. And really looking back now, I'm like, well, you didn't know because you'd never done it before. and I can look at it with compassion now but for ages I just felt such intense guilt. Luckily feeding, she started to feed quite well. I think we had to syringe feed her for the first few. I mean there's nothing, if you've not already felt quite exposed during birth, there's nothing like, I didn't care who touched my boobs. I can remember the midwife saying to me about having to syringe the colostrum and stuff and being like, how do I do that?

14:54Can you help with this? Because it felt just like not quite understanding that it was a thing that I might have to do and how does one do that? Do I just squeeze this? Can you milk me first? I milk myself. it's quite a thing again you know the whole everyone's looked down there and now a whole array of people have felt your boobs yeah totally yeah so we were very lucky in that like that she did quickly kind of feed very well yeah and it was it was almost like a lifeline throughout my what was to come because it felt like the only thing that i could do that was that I got right. How did you feel both physically and mentally when you were still in the hospital?

15:46Oh, just exhausted, but also slightly wired. Right. I already was struggling with going to sleep and I think that must be quite normal as well because you've got this little baby next to you and you're like, can I go to sleep? What's going to happen to you? Yeah, I remember needing to go to the toilet and I was like, what do I do with the baby? Do they come in with me? And they were like, oh no, you can just leave them there. And I think because you've grown them and they've been attached to you almost, you then are like, oh God, this is weird. But I, yeah, I was physically, I had a catheter and I then didn't, you know, you have to wee a certain amount before you're allowed home.

16:31I didn't have the sensation to need to wee. So then I remember again going out, I was sat on the toilet for about 45 minutes. I was like, oh, there's nothing coming out. And it was the smallest amount. And I went out and I said, oh, this is all I could wee. And the midwife just went, well, you're going to have to wee more than that if you want to go home. And I was like, oh, OK. And I remember going back. Tom had gone home. I went back to my little cubicle and I just sobbed. So I just want to go home. I think because I so desperately wanted to have her at home anyway, that desire to go home was even greater.

17:06And you'd been there for longer than you even thought you would as well. Yeah, yeah. So I then was in there for a couple of days, and I just begged for them to let me go home. And they were like, well, because my body was holding on to the wee, there was a point where I had like 1.5 litres of wee in my... Oh, my God. Yeah. And I had no sensation to go to the toilet. So I had to have a catheter. Right. Yeah, I begged to go home. They let me go home, but I had to go home with the catheter. which again in itself was um and I think I did have a really overwhelming sense of of failure really yeah it just kept coming back as much as I was trying to fight it I remember having going into the shower and I had to like hang my catheter on the shower and um I got out and Tom was there and I just burst into tears and he was he just went do you want me to phone your mum I was like yeah and he phoned mum and she remembers me it's a bit of a blur for me to be honest but she she remembers me sat on the edge of my bath and she and apparently I just I just said mum I just feel like I failed her but then I remember the mid the midwife coming back out to our house and she said you know how are you doing and I remember saying to her like I I feel when she's with me I feel content and really happy but when she's not with me I'm not okay and I just it was really weird like even if I was to leave the room if I could hear tom like cooing with her i just was like i'd have to run back in and be like oh like what's going like i just didn't want to miss any any moment and it was yeah there's just love was just so intense i think i think i've read something that you've written and said where you said you didn't think there would be an issue because that bond and that love was so big yeah you thought well clearly there's nothing yeah yeah it's like yeah nothing to worry about yeah and I think as well they often they say don't they that three three or four days in when your milk comes in you're going to be emotional anyway and I think it was all around that time yeah um and I also because I'd suffered with anxiety pre-penelope and I'd done so much work around it I thought well I'm gonna I'm gonna be fine like I'd never had depression before so I thought like you know I'm I'm not gonna have postnatal depression like it it just I don't know I just I think as well like I didn't know enough about those early signs that I wasn't able to pick up on what what I should have been alarmed at and also my husband didn't either and then throw in COVID yeah and not really being able to see many people so we're back in the January now of 2021 yeah and in my mind it's still bubbles and social distancing yeah so my mum and my stepdad Ian could they were in our bubble so they were spending a lot of time with us and I think it was clear that I was struggling but I don't think I was letting on how much I was struggling because I was so desperately like I like this was this is what I wanted like this is you know what I'd envisioned my life to be so I don't want people to know that I'm really finding this hard and my anxiety is through the roof and I think as well like because it was COVID and because I wasn't able to go to the mother and baby groups so I wasn't able to see mums that were going through it to be like oh do you feel this way yeah and either for them to say yes I do or no actually I don't yeah and then And for me to be like, oh, okay, that's probably not quite right.

21:33And it was about six weeks in. So I was due to go to the doctor. And obviously you're there. Well, you should be there for both of you. But it's very focused on your child. And my mum came with me, but she couldn't come in because it was COVID. So she sat in the car and I went in and I just remember being like, oh, right, you need to tell them. And your mum was on that as well, right? Your mum said you really need to tell the doctor. Yeah, she said you need to tell them how you're feeling. And I remember that feeling. It almost like bubbled in my chest and I was like, okay, I've got to tell them.

22:06Like tell her you're not okay. I just said, I was like, I really don't feel okay. And she's like, oh, why is that? I was like, I don't know. Like because I've just had a baby and I just feel really anxious. just like it maybe because of it being COVID as well and and she was like oh okay um should we should we get on with the checks for Penelope and I was like oh okay uh yeah so I let her do that and then she checked me my um scar and then afterwards I was like okay say it again just ask her and I was like is there anybody that I could speak to about how I'm feeling I remember she was just typing on a computer and she didn't even look at me and she goes oh that's one for your health visitor and I was like oh okay and so I went and I contacted my health visitor I don't know if I'd met her at this point and she ended up coming out and again I just said you know I'm really struggling I don't is there anybody that I could speak to had they done the survey that they didn't know Wow.

23:20No, I know. Again, I guess COVID, so many balls being dropped. Yeah, I think so. And in our area, the kind of NHS counselling service called Steps to Wellbeing. And she said, I said, can I speak to Steps to Wellbeing? And she went, oh, well, if you can afford private, I would go private because the NHS were really stretched. and again I was like I just felt that rejection and that immediate feeling of oh I shouldn't have asked I shouldn't have asked that was like you know I am probably more fortunate than other people I didn't feel like I deserved the help a few weeks passed and she did keep checking in on me and I remember the sleep was getting worse and it was I really started to feel probably the depression and I've always felt a little bit numb and at this point I hated my husband sorry Tom but he knows this and I I just resent I just feel like I was building up with so much resentment as well and then the health visitor came out and I said to her like it took a lot in me to say I said is this postnatal depression because this feels really bad and she goes oh um let's not put a label on it she said you just need a glass of wine some chocolate and a bath and I was like oh so I remember I was like right she's coming over today I'm not I'm not going to get properly dressed I'll put my lounge stuff on I won't do my makeup um so I think I was all I think I've had wet hair and I was like so I looked disheveled yeah and yeah I was just like I can't give you any more hints at this point as well I'd had my first suicidal thought right so it was a few days before and I'd Tom and I we'd had a bit of a again it was I was trying to live up to this perfectionism we'd booked this through the phone photos like newborn photos shoot the photos are incredible but it's all a bit bizarre really and I was you know I was dressed in like a white out like dress and it was all really lovely and like I I look back at those pictures now and I feel happy but I'm like you were struggling so much that day and that was such a big deal for you to do that and you felt like you needed to do that to prove to yourself that I'm I'm surviving and I think Tom and I haven't properly spoken about it but I think Tom could pick up on that I really wasn't okay and I think he was getting frustrated that I was trying to to kind of you know live this life that just wasn't the truth yeah and so we'd we'd had a bit of an argument and I ended up leaving the house and I started we live in the countryside and I said it was pitch black no streetlights I started walking towards just I just started aimlessly walking and then immediately I was like there's a train line over there and I was like I'm going and I started walking and then I just thought fuck I have never ever had a thought like that and it freaked me out and I phoned one of my friends who I'd known had had those thoughts before yeah and I said I said um sorry no no no no no no I said um I was like I've just had a thought that I just I'm I don't want to be here anymore I just want to go to the train line and she's like okay she was like thank you for phoning me like let's talk this through what's going on and I just said like I'm just I'm not coping like this is really hard and I my relationship is breaking down like he I could tell he did not want to be around me and it was just nothing that we neither of us had ever experienced before no and she and she managed to kind of calm me down and so on the back of that that was when I'd said to the health visitor and again my sleep was getting worse I could she Penelope was sleeping but I wasn't sleeping because I just couldn't switch off because I think especially since the suicidal thought I was like oh my god my brain has just gone there like how also this is what people really really need to realize as well that that thought coming in between the thought coming in and the action it's not that far you know what I mean so thank god your friend was there yeah I You know, thank God you even had that thought of I know someone who has felt this.

28:18I'm going to phone her. Yeah. Because it was it was two fields away. Yeah. But that's really not like you said, that's not that far. Yeah. And even now I hear the train beep like honk its horn. And every time it just goes through me and I'm like, it just makes me feel sick. Yeah. And I don't know if I'll ever manage to shift that. but it's you know it's it's just mad to me that having a baby can can bring that on when you and on the outside like you know I've I have a really lovely home I have a really supportive family husband friends but I was just crumbling inside and I was just trying to piece it all together and then when I was reaching out and to be then met with you just need a glass of wine and you know you take what they say and you're like okay well if you're the health visitor if that's what I need to do and that's what I'll do so I did it and I was like well that didn't work had you told her about heading to the train station heading to the train yeah yeah and um I just thought oh my god like I'm just banging my head against a brick wall yeah um and I think a few days or a week passed and my mum could see like it just wasn't getting better she would come over I'd literally wake up in the morning Tom goes to work really early so I would wake up on my own I'd look over at Penelope and I'd just be like I'm not deserving of you and And I would phone my mum and I'd just be like, I'd just literally, I'd just cry.

30:06And she'd be like coming straight over. And I think she just knew every morning she would have to, she'd be met with me crying. Yeah. And every morning she'd turn up and I'd just be like, I can't do this. She'd be like, you can, you can, you can do it. and I think it was like a few days after I'd spoken to the health visitor she said right you need to contact Steps to Wellbeing go and fill out go upstairs I'll look after Penelope go fill out the form and you know we need to get this sorted so I did that and then I think it's like a few days before they get back to you and then I got a call from a girl and she she said you know what's going on I said I think I've got postnatal depression I had a suicidal thought the other day but I did I phoned a friend immediately and it really scared me um and she said okay do you have therapy booked in and at this point I said I do I like I've got a therapist that I worked with previously but his wait list is three months right so I said but I need something now I need help now and she goes well okay because you've got therapy booked in and you've got friends to support you we can't actually help you right now and I went oh okay and she was like would you like to continue this conversation I said um no I'm okay and I got off the phone I remember I sat on the edge of the sofa and I just was like fuck like no one is listening like what is going on and I thought am I really not that bad like I thought right I'm just gonna have to go private so I then started looking for therapists that specialized in postnatal depression and I found one and I had a call with her and I almost felt like because I'd you know I was really actively trying I think maybe from a conversation I had with her she said I think you should and a conversation with a friend who I said that I was suicidal yeah they'd said I think you need to phone your doctors say you think you have postnatal depression and you need help right so I did I did end up doing that and he phoned me back because it was COVID it was just on the phone he said look I don't even have to do the depression scale I know you've got postnatal depression right so I'm going to prescribe you some antidepressants and we're gonna because I'd explained what had happened previously I'm so sorry that that has been the case like that's not okay yeah we're gonna get you better so I felt like okay I've got I've got this under control now I then booked in I'd had a couple of sessions with the post postnatal like therapist it's like I've got this like I'm I'm getting back back on track but then the sleep again just didn't it just was getting worse yeah and and Penelope was sleeping yeah but you weren't yeah yeah so she was doing you know the normal kind of three to four hours um Tom I think he'd almost gone into the mode where he just was like I don't know what to do like I literally don't know what to do and he was almost it felt like he was running away like that I'd lost him yeah and I think it's just because he just didn't he didn't know how to handle it um and we weren't getting the support.

33:55Yeah. The following day we went to his mum's and that night I'd probably slept an hour and we went to his mum's and I didn't really want to go. Yeah. That's looking back now that's when the psychosis started. Really? Yeah. What was it about that day that makes you go that was it it was I lost sense of time and I started believing that people could read my thoughts so I was like they know what's and at this point the intrusive thoughts started to get really loud um I was worried that I could harm Penelope in some way so then I was worried that they were all knowing that I was having these thoughts and I remember as well like a moment that made me think what the fuck is going on was so Tom's dad or stepdad was cooking lamb on the big green egg and I don't like lamb but you know I'm again it's not like me to be like I would have just normally just eaten it yeah and anyway I was talking to him and he was telling me he's really into his meats like cooking on the lamb and he was telling me all about it I just went to him I don't like lamb it's like oh okay and then I remember it came out and I was like what the hell why did you just say that and since that I've learned that with psychosis it removes that filter in your brain to stop you from the words literally keeping the words in just fly out of yeah it's like anything that comes into your brain you say it and it's like it's almost a bit freeing because you just say whatever but when it first starts happening and you're at the start of it when you say things like that you're you're like oh shit what what was that and I was like okay that was a bit weird and I remember being in the garden and I just started crying in front of everyone and you know his brother his stepbrother like all these people were there like girlfriends that I'd just met and I was just crying and I was like I'm just really struggling and I remember going home and I was like god this this feels really weird I don't know what's going on.

36:19Did you say anything to Tom about the fact that you were feeling like everyone could read your mind no when you feel that way it's really hard to communicate that what I was starting to fixate on was like I was like the problem is Tom and I we're not getting on like we're not doing this together so I was I was like really angry at him yeah and I think I was angry at him as well because I was like I'm struggling so much and I don't think you realize how much I'm struggling but you know I couldn't communicate that with him so looking back I'm like you know he didn't know because and were you still at a point where you were trying to make it seem like you had your shit together yeah I mean or were you just sort of having everything like out there um I think I was still trying and then it was the following day when I was like this is again I thought people could read my mind and that they'd been reading it all along and everyone knew that these thoughts that I was having do you think they were conspiring against you yeah yeah and I remember waking up and I was like oh my god like I just feel so suffocated and I I need to speak to somebody but I need to get out of the house I need to do it I need to call I was like I'm gonna call the Samaritans and I went to go for I said to Tom right I need to go in the car and I need to drive and I was like but I know you're going to be really worried about me so you've got me on find my friends so you're going to know where I am but I need to go and go and speak to somebody and I remembered like I got in the car and he was like he goes what am I going to do about Penelope and I was like figure it out I pulled up and I phoned them and I just said I'm just really not okay but I couldn't communicate what was wrong I couldn't I didn't understand what was going on um and I spoke to them until there was like just you know nothing left to say and then I drove my car needed fuel so I drove to the nearest petrol station and I got there and I was like I can't get out like I just almost froze and at this point Tom had obviously phoned my parents and explained what had happened and they were really worried so my stepdad phoned me and he got he picked me up and took me home my mum then came out later that evening sat with me and we talked and just tried to be as like normal as possible and then that night she went home I then went to sleep that night and again it was like tossing and turning and then I fed Penelope and I went to put her back in the next to me crib and I don't think I felt I think I left her in the bed and then I turned over to cuddle Tom and he went where's Penelope like what have you done with Penelope and I that's when I had my first psychotic episode and I just start I flung myself back and I started like uncontrollably laughing and I don't really remember it this is kind of what Tom's explained and I rolled onto Penelope and it was Tom said like I think it was just for like a split second you shot back up and then you got out of bed and he said and then you just started singing and I and I was like oh like looking back I'm like I remember that and I was I was hallucinated hallucinating singing um ordinary people by John Legend and I thought I was John Legend and I was like singing and everyone was chanting and you were not in that room no no and Tom was obviously in bed like you've just rolled on our daughter started laughing about it and now you're singing John Legend he was like what are you doing like why why are you singing and I was like because I'm happy and I love you but I remember the line of the song that I sang and it was the bit where it's like we should take it slow oh I remember like oh and I think now looking back I'm like I feel like I was almost like telling myself like you need to take it slow down yeah And Tom immediately was like, this isn't right.

40:57Phoned my mum. Could he communicate while you were being John Legend? Could Tom communicate with you or were you just like shut out of that? I think I was shut out, yeah. And I was fully in psychosis. Yeah. But I do remember him looking at me so scared. And he phoned my mum and he goes, it's like she's had some sort of psychotic episode like you need to come over and it was it almost like snapped me out of it and I was like oh what just happened and I looked at him and I was like oh my god he looks petrified I'm now petrified and what has just happened but then I went back into it right

41:48the way that i explain it to people is like being drunk and like when you're blackout drunk yeah so you're kind of you lose all inhibitions you do whatever and then when you wake up you're like did that actually happen yeah yeah my parents arrived and i was still kind of in and out my mum took me into the spare room that must be so weird as well because obviously when you're in that episode you aren't feeling you're in that episode like you said feeling inhibitions and stuff but then when you're slipping out of it you must be so scared of what you you're being told you've just done yeah and worried about slipping back into it yeah must That must have been such an awful, awful time.

42:37Yeah, it was just the most surreal feeling. And it was... But when I was in the psychosis, I was really happy. Yeah. I thought I slept for the rest of the night. I do remember waking up and I thought, because I couldn't see Penelope, I then started believing that I'd killed her. and that was the whole psychosis I then believed that I had. So I would try and run back into the room to find her, and Tom would be like, Jade, get out, go to sleep. And then because he was saying that, I thought that he was protecting me from seeing that I'd just killed her and that she was dead and that they were having to sort everything out and get all of the things in place.

43:31and I thought I'd gone back to sleep but my mum said that apparently I was just talking to her all night and I said like the other day I was like what was I like and she said you were you were just really she said you were quite nice actually you're just playing me loads of compliments saying I was a great mum yeah and she said and you I I needed to go get something to eat and I asked if you wanted anything you said no and I came back with my banana and then you said oh mom aren't she quite hungry now so you stole my banana like it was she said it was you know it was you just reverted back to being my little girl and she was just looking after me and the following day again I was just in and out of psychosis I started thinking that my granny who lived over the road she was alive at the time and I thought that she died and I was like granny's dying or like she's dying she's dying and everyone was like no she's not and you know she came over and she's like I'm here Jade I'm here and then I would they were just trying to get me to sleep and I would Tom just said you just would not sleep like you would fall asleep maybe for five minutes and then you'd wake up and he's he said sometimes you would come out of it and you you did say at one point what's what's happening what's going on and he was like I couldn't really explain to you what was happening so I didn't really know um and at this point he was on the phone trying to get help and he's phoned my doctor and he said like you know I think she's I think it was maybe my sister that was I think she's got postpartum psychosis and everyone was like if people don't know about it how can they possibly even think that that's something that you're going through yeah you know at this point it's still just a guessing game as to what was actually happening but we just knew things had really taken a turn and at this point the doctor said you know okay she possibly has postpartum psychosis we can prescribe some antipsychotics and she can start taking them and then you know she should hopefully respond to them Tom was like no I need someone to come out and assess her and I think she needs to go to a mother and baby unit because I cannot keep her safe and alive at home and that's what they did they got someone to come out and assess me and at this point I'd gone mute and looking back I think I'd gone mute because I'd I'd tried so hard to reach out for help and I'd told all these different health professionals I'm not okay but no one listened so it was almost like my brain was like if you stop talking I think they're going to take you seriously and so I just remember her coming out and she was asking me questions and I just couldn't respond I think as well because the intrusive thoughts were really loud I was worried if I did talk that I was going to say them out loud and that was really scary in itself.

46:48Were you worried about their their views on you as a mother and how that would affect you and Penelope? Yeah I was worried that they were going to take her away and tell me that like I I wasn't a fit enough mum. I was just so scared. I was scared of what could happen. I didn't really know much about mother and baby units. I only knew about them because someone in our NCT group had been admitted. So if that hadn't had happened, I wouldn't even have known that that was a thing. but also how much of this are you able to talk about because like can you actually recall certain things or is it because you know people have talked to you about it since like the fact that Tom and your sister had started talking to mother and baby the fact that your sister had kind of gone postpartum psychosis like yeah were those things that would be discussed with you at that time or is it only actually after that you're actually able to you know know what was going on Yeah, I think it's now after.

47:55At the time, I had no idea. I was just really, I knew everyone was talking about me. And then as well, when you're in psychosis, you become really paranoid. So then that was feeding into that paranoia. and I just but I just couldn't my brain just couldn't understand exactly what was happening the OCD kind of intrusive thoughts were coming through and then I would I then started like with compulsion so I would drink a lot of water and I just constantly be sipping because and it's I've gone through my notes with a psychologist and we in there it said that Jade said she kept drinking water because it stopped the voices in her head and it was like a coping mechanism and I would then tap quite a lot so Tom found me in the shower like prior to I think it was the day that I was admitted and I was just like tapping on the wall because again the voices were really loud it then turned I was like okay that was too obvious so I just then started tapping lightly on my leg and I and that's very common thing to do when you've got OCD right but obviously it was like mixed with psychosis so it was kind of intensified it I was singing a lot I remember just singing to the the amp that came out to assess me she was like you have a lovely voice I know.

49:32And I really don't think I do. But it was just a coping mechanism. She then kind of left and went out to her car. She was like, are you okay? Are you okay if I leave? Then that fed into she doesn't think I'm safe. She thinks Tom's abusing me. and so then I thought like everyone thinks that Tom's abusing me and this is why these people are coming out and they're really concerned about me and she went out kind of spoke to who she needed to speak to and she came back in and she said right okay Jade we think the best thing for you to do is go to a mother and baby unit so there's a place called Florence House and I immediately was like oh that sounds nice and at the time because it was covid you couldn't go on holiday so I was like oh I'm gonna go on holiday and they were like so we need you you can go tonight your husband and your parents can take you but you are you happy to go as a voluntary patient and I was like yeah that's that's fine and I packed my stuff and they took me down and I was having I was having hallucinations on the way down smells became really strong and I think they said they had to all have gum because I'd tell them that they smell and I was like experience but I was experiencing smells that other people weren't experiencing and then we got to the unit and then I ran I started running away Ian had to kind of almost rugby tackle me I then got taken inside and I was just so distressed and I thought I'd been taken there because I'd killed Penelope.

51:21Right. And they then quickly realised, like, she's not here voluntary. So they, I had, like, signed all the paperwork. I was, like, saying, like, to my parents, like, I don't want to be here, like, please, like, don't leave me, don't leave me on my own. And I remember looking at my mum and she just, god like she I just can't even imagine what that felt like and she ended up having to kind of wait in the car with my stepdad Tom stayed with me until I fell asleep and they then I think had to have conversations with Tom and agree that I needed to be sectioned because I wasn't safe to like myself or others um but at that time I just I'd lost like I was not there and I didn't understand you know they kept trying to read me my rights and for me to sign things but multiple times I it just failed because I couldn't digest what they were telling me yeah for for two weeks I was in a deep acute psychosis even with the anti-psychotic the the meds that you were on so they started giving me the medication when I got there and I think it takes a while for it to kick in but since speaking to Tom they said that I was probably one of the most poorly patients they'd seen and part of me wonders is that because it was such a long build-up and like it was almost like my brain and my body just shut down yeah and those two weeks were just absolutely wild and I don't remember a lot of it really I I remember again I was singing a lot and I now go back and I volunteer at the mother and baby unit and there's some nurses that looked after me and they would, I once said the other day, she said, we always knew you were okay if you had Taylor Swift playing.

53:31I remember getting them all to sing along to it and be like, come on everybody. Because every time Penelope cried, it would really stress me out. Well, see, that's the thing. So I was going to ask this. So obviously it's called a mother and baby unit. Yeah. Was Penelope with you the whole time? Yeah. And that is the, it's so important for mums that are struggling to be with their baby because it can affect, if you're separated, that can affect your bond. And if you think in my case, I thought I'd killed her. So if I'd been separated and put on a general psych ward, I would have genuinely believed that because even when she was there, I'd look at her and she looked dead.

54:14and I was convinced you know that at one point they were doing the ECG on me and I thought that that was the electric shock therapy like treatment to kill me and I remembered ripping it off saying no no no I'm not ready I'm not ready and they were like no it's okay Jade and I'd be like like okay and I remember just thinking okay it's my time like and I remember lying there looking up at the ceiling and I closed my eyes and I was like it's time to go and then obviously nothing happened and then I woke up and I was like oh okay well I don't actually want to be here so I would do things like try and hold my breath for as long as I could to see whether that would kill me like I just did not want I just didn't want to feel what I was feeling anymore did the suicidal thoughts come were they even coming even thicker than before yeah yeah because I I was in a foreign place I was back in a hospital and even though mother and baby units are incredible and they don't feel like hospitals as such like they they make them as homely as they can be uh but I was just really distressed being there and you're you're not you're away from your loved ones and because it was COVID I could only have one person a day come and visit me and that was for an hour so that was really hard and since going back to the unit it's different now you can have as many people as you want there they can spend the whole day with you and it's really about like getting you back to a better place mentally and setting you back up for life Yeah.

56:04So, yeah, it was just a wild ride. Can you believe that, like, looking back at it, that that's you? No, no. Because when I... I remember the moment that I came out of psychosis and I stayed out of it. And I remember looking in the mirror and I didn't recognise myself. Really? Yeah. I lost any inhibition to, like, look after myself. I wasn't really eating so I'd lost weight I just looked tired I didn't want to be there but I also did I felt, I remember being on my bed and there was, because I had to have someone with me at all times the woman was sat at the end of my bed and I said, I'd actually been reading your book Yeah, no way Yeah, happy mum, happy baby

57:00this is a very strange circle moment yeah I know and I remember it was because you think hidden messages I remember it was like it felt like you were writing it for me and I was like oh I remember smiling and then I was like right I'm tired and I looked at the lady and I said am I here to sleep and she goes she goes yeah and I was like thank you and and I remember sleeping and I just I slept a lot because I was so sleep deprived and that was their main goal and I remember saying as well to my psychiatrist like why when I'd come out of it I was like why why has this happened to me like what happened and she said said okay so because it was for those two weeks a lot of the time I'd say why am I here and I would question am I an alcoholic yeah am I a drug addict um and they were like no no no no and they was one when one person said you have postpartum psychosis and it's like it was just instantly like oh okay it gave me a leaflet from a charity called action on postpartum psychosis and I started reading it and I was like oh this start this is starting to make a bit more sense and then I was able to then start coming out of it and then start kind of you know recovering and the psychiatrist said the biggest factors we don't actually know what triggers postpartum psychosis yeah but it can be a combination of a traumatic birth which it sounds like you had and genetics so there's potential genetics in my family and sleep deprivation and she was like the biggest one being sleep deprivation and you had no sleep when you came in and she was like that's why we need to make sure that you're sleeping well you'd written somewhere I know I've read it that you had there was one week where you had 10 hours in that one week 10 hours yeah and I've always been someone that needs sleep my mum said you used to ask to go to bed when you were little and like I have to have like eight hours sleep yeah really your body almost shuts down and it I've said to so many people like it just the brain is so powerful the fact that it was playing all these tricks on me I was seeing things that weren't there I was hearing things that weren't there believing things and all because I had a baby yeah like that and why why are we not talking about that why are we not saying this is it probably won't happen you know this is it's one one in two chance of a thousand mums but if it does happen and you start feeling this way make sure you reach out for help I guess it's really reach out for help and then really advocate for yourself as well and know that you can absolutely push it yeah yeah the other thing Jade I think is really important to stress is that you were going through all this in COVID you know what I mean like yeah that there were so many gaps so many different people not really knowing how things worked yeah and I would like to think that if it was consistently face to face and that everything was all like running as it should be that you wouldn't have fallen through the cracks in the way that you did yeah hopefully and I've I now work with action on postpartum psychosis and I have started I've only done two but I've started giving I made a presentation with them and the first presentation was to my doctor's surgery and it was just telling them what it is what signs to look out for and then my story I have a feeling the doctor was there that really yeah and it was I said to them when I reached out to them this is not me complaining I don't ever want to complain but I you need to know what to look out for so that other mums don't slip through the cracks yeah and I asked for feedback afterwards and they said that a few days later he had a appointment with a mum and he was able to signpost her to the right yeah the right place and just I just want to be out my dream is to go around to multiple health professionals doctor surgeries because I think sometimes they don't think that they're the first point of call but often they are I really just want to stress like I it's I would never want to bash like anybody that met me along the way and did what they did because people can only do so much with the knowledge that they have and I can't hold that against them I did go on to have a relapse and I think that I was very angry in the relapse about the care that I'd had and I didn't trust the NHS and I didn't trust the professionals because I didn't feel like they helped me enough but since the community mental health team that I've worked with with my relapse I have just restored my faith in the system and has shown me that with the right care like you really can go on to get better and with going back to the mother and baby unit like I thought that I would find that really hard and I never thought I'd be able to do it but it's been really healing and it almost in a funny way feels like home.

1:03:04Well I wonder if from going into that place and feeling so lost to piecing yourself back together yeah you know I wonder how did it feel when you left there you know I know you relapsed after it but when you when you left there for the first half or a month of being in there what did it feel like to suddenly be allowed to leave oh horrifying really yeah as well because with covid so I was there for a month the average stay is probably about three months wow yeah there's one that has been there she was there for nine months which is like your maternity leave yeah but three months is probably the average I would say and what a big chunk of that is getting you back to your normal life so they'll gradually send you home So on day leave and then you'll do overnight stays and then you keep going back, you keep and you're doing your therapy work and you're it's just making sure that you've got that full support and in place.

1:04:14And if you have a wobble, you can go back and your room is still there. But because it was covid, if I went home for an overnight stay, I would have had to go back and isolate for three days in my room. and they said we're just worried that's going to hinder your recovery so that I went home for a couple of hours for for a week over the weekend and then I think it was a Monday I got let home and or maybe a Sunday and then Tom went back to work right and I remember being sat on the bedroom floor and I just thought what the fuck has just happened I've just been in a unit where I wasn't allowed to be on my own I wasn't allowed to be on my own with my daughter I had help looking after her because I couldn't but now she was there on the floor and I was like now everyone's trusting me but I just still don't trust myself even with the mums that have had the gradual leave like that feeling of still maybe not trusting yourself and trying to get back into normal life and I think it's almost it's it's really hard as well with mental health because you can't see it Tom just thought well she's home now they think she's fine she's she's okay and we're just gonna get back into it now and I think that really that mentality that we both had of I just need to get get on with it and just that's kind of that's got to be such a fine line as well hasn't it because from going from a place where everyone you've got that support like 24 7 to now being in your home you're only going to regain your confidence in you and as in you as a mother yeah if you're given that space to be that mother but to do it solidly while Tom's at work for a whole day that is a big yeah that's going from zero to 100 yeah yeah and I think that's why it's so important that and they do typically ease you back in and I think support for Tom as well like he didn't really have that much support like the focus is really on the mum but it's equally impacted Tom but also like my family around and that's where you've got the charities like app who have people or support groups for partners for grandparents and they've been the biggest lifeline so if anybody was listening to this and they've gone through what i went through app have been like it it made me feel less alone yeah because they were the first the person I spoke to on the phone the first time was the first person I'd spoke to that had had it and we were able to say oh you know this happened to me oh that's yeah I experienced that and I was like oh I'm not I'm not telling somebody what I experienced them looking at me like you did what yeah and I remember her saying she she mentioned to someone at the school gates that she'd had it she said the person who she told actually took a step back and she said oh don't worry it's not contagious wow and I'm trying to make it so that other mums just don't feel so alone because I remember coming out of the mother and baby unit and being like what has just happened googling a little bit couldn't really find anything and then that made me feel more alone because I thought, God, am I the only one that's experienced it?

1:08:09And, yeah, I think I'm on a bit of a mission. I love the fact that you go back to the mother and baby unit and do women's nails. Yeah, I love it. It's so nice. It must feel so rewarding. Yeah, definitely. And even doing, like, the post that, because it's quite a lot, like, you probably know, like, putting yourself out there on social media and you do second guess what you're saying and you're doing and if it's the right thing or whatever. But just having a few mums a week saying, you know, can you help me with this? Like, I'm worried about this or you've helped me and that's why I'm doing it. Yeah.

1:08:51So I just, yeah, can I just, I just want to, I'm going to get emotional. I just want to thank you for giving me the spot here to tell my story because it's you know I'm just I'm just a little old me from Dorset and you've built something that reaches so many mums and helps so many mums and I know that like I'm just so grateful that you've allowed me to come here today and you're just You're so lovely. Yeah, Jade.

1:09:31Because Tom, like when I sold Tom, when Alex messaged me and said about me coming on here and we didn't know if it was real, and Tom then started going on your Instagram looking at it and he went, Jade, bloody Keira Knightley was on it the other day. I was like, I know. I'm just Jade Lloyd. well jade i i i seriously think it's not even about the people that you're helping who are going through it right now it's about the people that you're helping in the future and it's about the people who have gone through it but don't have the words to express it or haven't been able to find anyone else like you're you're helping past present future and i think that is so absolutely incredible and we don't talk about maternal on mental health enough um so to be able to do so in a way that's sharing your story like that is such a giving thing to do um so thank you for for you know for trusting us with with your experience and your story yeah um one thing i do like when it comes to family and to tom was there a moment where you guys sat down and talked about everything?

1:10:49Because was there a tent? I would imagine it could so easily fall into, well, that happened and now we don't talk about it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it did. I remember there was a moment in the car, we were in the car, and I started talking about it and I was trying to talk to him. And I just said to him, like, you don't want to talk about it. And he said, the thing is, Jade, I hope he doesn't mind me saying this I'm very much like I read a chapter and it's done right we move on he's like but you like to read that chapter and read it again and read it again and he was like and I just don't want to and since we've talked about it we've had you know we got to a point where we didn't know whether we were gonna make it through and you know it's a lot to put on And I think having a baby, I remember right after we had Penelope, Tom saying, I understand why some people break up after having children because it's a lot.

1:11:52But then throw what we went through on top of that. That's even harder. And realising that you are the one receiving treatment. Yeah. But the wider impact as well. The fact that Tom has had to see the woman he loves. Yeah. And absolutely adores go through that. that is so hard. Yeah, it's a massive thing to happen, not only to me but to him. And to expect him to get everything right as well, that's not fair. We had to figure it out together and I think we've gone through therapy and we've since really worked on what happened and I would say we're probably at the most strongest we've ever been and I remember Ian saying to me if you can get through this you can get through anything and the fact that I was telling Tom both times I had psychosis that I hated him that I wanted a divorce I didn't want to be with him anymore but he's sat there and particularly the first time I remember him saying to me that's okay we'll talk about it when you get better like I've heard of partners that have just left their their partner because they couldn't deal with it and they didn't want to deal with it so the fact that he showed up every single day came down to the mother and baby unit that was you know an hour away and sat with me sat in my room when I was pretending to sleep because I didn't want to talk to him I hope Tom did know that he did how old is Penelope now?

1:13:40five yeah she's just turned five she's so sassy really? yeah she's so cute but she's equally a nightmare at times they all laugh spoiler alert they absolutely all laugh yeah but it's like some of the things that she says I don't know if you have it with your boys when they do something and then you're like oh my god that's me yeah um usually when they're just absolutely hilarious and brilliant obviously yeah yeah they're completely all devils that's nothing to do with me yeah um if you could write a letter on motherhood who would it be to and what would you say it would be to any new mum and it would say that the days can be long and hard and what you feel can feel so heavy but also the joy, like it's such, it's recognising that you can feel those two things at the same time and that you are enough for your baby.

1:14:51Don't compare yourself to other mums. And know if you're struggling when to ask for help and that if you ask for help, it's a sign of strength, not weakness. Absolutely. We end the podcast with you completing three sentences. The first one is being a mum means? It means feeling all the emotions in just one day. Very, very true. Since having a child, I? I have found an inner strength that I didn't know that I had. And I'm happy when? When Tom, Penelope and I have got ready for bed, had a shower, had a bath, whatever. We've got into our pyjamas. We do this at the end of every day. You do? Yeah. and we get into our bed and then we put something on the TV and watch it for a while and we're just all cuddling and it's just the best feeling in the world.

1:16:00Jade, I just feel like obviously your birth didn't turn out as you thought it would. Early days of motherhood didn't turn out how you thought it would. But now, is motherhood now what you thought it would be? Yeah. Yeah, I think I said it to someone the other day. Like when I feel like I'm living the life that I envisioned, especially now that she's at school. Yeah. And you feel like a proper mum, don't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. For doing the school run and... Forgetting all the things that you're meant to be remembering. Oh my God, yeah. And yeah, this is what I imagined it was going to be like.

1:16:39and it's, I'm really, I think because I was at such a deep, dark place before that I really value those special happy moments. I treasure them more than ever. And I would imagine that when you were in those moments that you couldn't ever see yourself being happy as you are now. No, definitely not. I bet you can go back and tell that. I know, I know. Maybe I need to write another letter for myself. There you go. Jade thank you so much I'm so glad that you've agreed to come on and share your story yeah thank you for having me I could have talked for hours we probably have that was Alex's problem