Lauren Cowell Beyond the Headlines: Motherhood, Campaigning and Entering Her F*ck It Era

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1:26Gosh, I just wish I had a little midweek drop of happy mum. Guys, we have Life of a Midwife, this gorgeous mini-series that lands on a Thursday. Subscribe, actually. Subscribe to the podcast and then it will be there waiting for you. You'll probably have a little notification pop up and tell you that it's there. Life of a Midwife is just so beautiful. I cannot listen to a single episode without just being so moved by it. It's beautifully crafted. I basically give you a little intro and I just make sure that you know what's going on. But the accounts from the midwives are absolutely perfect. I do think it's absolutely gorgeous and that you'll love listening to it.

2:04So go find that wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum. Today's guest is the incredible Lauren Cowell. She's literally just left. And I've got to say, there's not much out there that is from her. And you will understand why during this chat. I guess we saw little snippets of Lauren in the documentary. That was actually Simon's documentary called The Next Act that was out on December 10th last year. I know that because that's the boy band's name, December 10th. She's a mum of two boys, Adam, who's 20, Eric, who's 12. She turns 50 next year and she just feels like she's stepping into a new era of her life that is essentially a fuck it era.

2:54And for various reasons that we go into that you might even be aware of. Lauren has carried so much shame and guilt and judgment with her over the last 13 years. and I have to say that actually sitting opposite her, it's an emotional chat because you can see how much that weighs on her. But please listen and open your heart to Lauren Cowell. Yeah, you have a really nice energy about you. I have to say, everyone said this though about you. They all said, like, you have nothing to worry about. She is so calming, so, you know, just lovely. And you do, you have a really nice energy. So I'm feeling very, very comfortable.

3:36Good. I'm glad. I'm glad. How is life at the moment? Life is really good. It's very busy. Well, actually, our life has always been busy, but it's particularly busy right now because I've moved into a whole new sphere and chapter of, I guess, my life as a person and as a woman. So it's a lot of new things for me at the moment, but it's all really good. How does that feel? Because obviously you've got two children. Eric is now 12. He is. You have a 12-year-old too, right? I have a 12-year-old, yeah. It's a fun age. But does it feel like now that both the boys are older that you've got that ability to kind of just do what feels right for you?

4:23A hundred percent. You hit the nail on the head. I think that for so long, I mean, there's different reasons along the way why I never really stepped out to do, you know, my own thing. I think for the first time now where I'm at in my life, where my children are at in their lives, you know, they're still young and they still need me. I mean, relatively young. But in terms of where they're at when they're, you know, when they're toddlers or when they're, you know, little, you know, it's different. and I think for the first time I feel that everything is in a place in my life where I feel oh my god I'm gonna start crying that was so quick oh my god um I feel like I'm in in a place now where I'm ready to step out yeah do you feel like that's emotional no you're not because I think motherhood is so hard and and I and I think often there are many different parts that come with it yeah that come with being a woman that come with motherhood yeah I think when you get to that place where you're allowed to officially go this is me and actually something that's driven for you yeah you know that there's there's there's so much emotion that comes with it so true yeah I mean I don't know what just triggered that I guess it is it's it's um you know motherhood and being a woman it comes with um a lot of a lot of stuff And I think that, you know, everyone has their own journey.

5:52I hate that word journey, but it's true. Everyone has their own journey. And, you know, getting to a place in your life where all of the things, they kind of all fit together. And you get to a place, for me, that whatever I had to go through to get to a point where I feel, right, I'm ready to put myself out there. Because I feel like, you know, I have something, I have things that I want to say. I have things that I want to do. I think that is it's a really incredible place to be. And that's, I think, where I'm at right now in my my journey. I wonder if part of that as well is because there's been a lot of noise around you, especially with you and Simon, especially in the early days.

6:32There's a lot of noise that sometimes you don't have the ability to have your say out there. You don't know your desire. Yeah. And it's such a confusing, conflicting time. And you just want to protect what is there. so to actually go now is the time where I can step out and show people who I actually am because what was really fascinating actually is researching you actually I haven't seen you talking a lot I haven't seen you being you what a fun chapter to be stepping out into yeah it's so funny that you say that G because we did a documentary in December when I say we it was Simon and I would say that you had a great part in it.

7:17It was Simon and it was, you know, there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about, you know, what it was going to be. It was always going to be about finding a boy band, which we did and it's been incredible. But initially it was about that, but then they said, okay, but we're going to need to get some reality stuff and some stuff with you and the family and everybody. And I was, you know, you have to understand for 12 years, I've been, like you said, people probably haven't even heard me speak in public. Yeah, yeah. Because I kept myself very, very private. And that was intentional. I really made a very, very big point early on because I was sort of thrust into this world.

7:55You know, this is not a world that I come from of being out there publicly and being a part of, you know, this whole world. And so I was very intentional about keeping myself private, but also for my children and wanting them to be really protected and all of this. So, it wasn't until the documentary came out that I was kind of, okay, it's been a long time. And it would be really unrealistic to think that Simon was going to film a documentary and they were going to be, you know, film crews and cameras and, you know, all kinds of people in our house and, you know, following this journey of Simon's.

8:35And to think that I wasn't going to be involved somehow. So, I kind of leaned into that. And once I decided, and we talked about it a lot, you know. we talked about it. And the filming of it was over a long period as well, wasn't it? It was. I mean, that wasn't supposed to be the case. It was supposed to be like, well, this is how it was pitched to me. It was like, it's going to be like a quick in and out. You know, they said it was going to be about, I think, six or eight months. It ended up being almost two years. So, you know, in hindsight, thinking about the fact that I wasn't going to be in it or, or even just that possibility, it just wasn't a possibility.

9:07So once I leaned into it and once I decided, okay, I'm going to be involved. It was really easy because I just said, I'm, I'm only going to be me. Like that's all, I don't, I'm not an actress. I'm not a TV personality. I'm not any of those things. I'm just me. So as long as I can just be me, um, then that's fine. But I don't know what, what that's going to bring or how people are going to respond to that. So, you know, I just kind of went into it thinking I'll just be myself. And, you know, I did it. It was so fun. I really, really enjoyed it. I mean, there were, there was, there was, I think we really grew and bonded as a family because of it, because I think, you know, I've been around Simon's work for all these years and I've kind of very much been in the background and for the first time kind of being a little bit more front and center, I was sort of dipping my toe in it.

9:56And I, you know, I really enjoyed it because that is kind of what we do behind the scenes. We are very much a team and a unit and And to do that in a real way and like have people see that, you know, it was terrifying. Were you terrified when it's one thing to film it and have it and, you know, do all that bit. It's a different thing when it actually airs. And I would imagine that your nerves around it would be very different to, say, Simon's nerves around it. Right. Yes and no. Because I think even for Simon, like even though he has been on camera for so many years and he's been doing this a long time, you know, I think this was the first time for him, too, that he's put himself out there in this way.

10:38And I think the stakes were really high, too, Giovanna, because, you know, this was all about him, you know, as a as a A &R guy, as a music producer, you know, putting together this band, which is where he started in his career. So a lot of people didn't know that, especially like the, you know, the younger generation of the audience who are now the fans of December 10. But a lot of those people and those kids and whoever didn't know that about Simon. So I think them getting to rediscover him in that light and seeing him for, you know, where he started his career, I thought was really cool. But, you know, there was a lot of pressure for him because if it didn't work and, you know, it was almost like, well, can he do this again?

11:17So I think there were a lot of nerves on his end, too. And, of course, I was terrified because I just thought, oh, my gosh, well, because I'm just being myself. I'm not playing a part. I'm not acting. what if people hate me what if people are like oh my god she's this or that or she's too loud or she's that feeling i would imagine of people would have already had an idea of who you were right they would have filled in they would have filled in whatever gaps they were right we do it with people we assume that someone is a certain way yeah but this is actually you going no no no this is who i am yeah you know what i mean and i'm not going to give you a rose tinted version of me.

11:54I'm not going to give you a presentable, likable version. I'm not going to do things in a way that makes you like me. I'm going to just be me. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, again, that was terrifying. But I guess because the expectations that I had weren't really, I didn't have really any expectations of how people were going to perceive me. And I guess because of the past and because of how my relationship with Simon came to light, you know, with the public and everything, you know, I was already used to being, you know, criticized and being judged and being, you know, whatever. So I've had to kind of evolve and kind of build a thicker skin, if you will, to kind of just go, well, actually, I know who I am.

12:36It's really hard when you're trying to raise children, you're with a very publicly known person, you know, Simon is, I think one of the most well-known people on the planet, no joke. And so with that comes so much, you know, but then here I am, I'm really private. I am somebody who not a lot of people really know much about. And so, yeah, it was, it was really difficult for me at first to, to come to grips with how do you navigate that, you know, but I think as I'm getting older and I'll be 50 next year, I just, I kind of, can I, can I say a curse word? I kind of don't give a fuck anymore. So that's where, that's where I'm at in my life.

13:16Yeah. And what gorgeous place to be. And then you saying all that, it's no surprise that you got emotional at the start. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I would love to go back to your childhood. Yeah. What was your childhood like? Where did you grow up? Okay, so we're gonna go right back. Yes, we are. I grew up in Miami and in Florida. I grew up, you know, in a sense of just really having everything that I ever wanted or needed. And I was very privileged and very lucky in that way. I have two loving parents. I have an amazing sister. My parents were divorced. They are divorced. They got divorced when I was five.

13:50But it's interesting because their divorce, I guess maybe because I was really young, I don't remember the ins and outs of what happened or why or any of the details. I just know that I remember them splitting up. And I remember us being in different houses and my sister and I going back and forth. But my parents really always had a very, I guess, civilized and mature relationship with respects to how they were going to navigate that for my sister and myself. So I never really felt like we were separated because we really still did so much together and we still do. So we always call ourselves like this kind of dysfunctional modern family.

14:38So we all get together and it's like my dad and his wife, they've been together for over 20 years and she has a daughter. So I have a stepsister as well, Michelle, and my sister is Nicole. And then my dad is remarried and then my mom's also remarried. So, yeah. The family just gets bigger. Family just gets bigger. Yeah. But so I had a pretty, you know, nice and lovely upbringing. And my parents, you know, I'm very close to both of them. I mean, I have complicated relationships with maybe more so my mom than my dad. Right. But I guess we all have that, right? It goes through moments, doesn't it?

15:12Everything has its moments. My mom and dad are also divorced. But it's that thing when parents can find a way to be in each other's lives. Definitely. It makes all the difference. It really does. Yeah. And obviously, because I'm divorced. So I mean, and I never really thought about it like this because, but maybe now that we're talking, maybe it's kind of coming to the surface. Maybe because of the fact that my parents were divorced, but we still all, you know, had this very nice relationship and everything was very cordial. And I never really, I don't have any, you know, memories or recollections of, you know, real like hardships revolving my family or the fact that they were divorced.

15:52So I guess when I, when I got divorced, you know, it was a very different situation and it wasn't, it wasn't a great situation at all. It was terrible, in fact. But, you know, but but I always really, really, really tried and my ex-husband as well. I mean, we always try to put Adam first. I mean, because that really is the most important thing. If you can take that approach. And of course, it's not it's not easy because, you know, whatever the circumstances are and whatever causes the divorce, you know, that ends up leading to, you know, a lot of complications and emotions and anger and, you know, whatever else.

16:28But I think at the end of the day, you know, two people decide to have a child together and get married or not. But when you have a child with somebody, you know, you're really attached to that person, whether you like it or not for life. And so if you split up with that person, you do have, in my opinion, you have an obligation to put your children or your child first. And everything else that's going on around, you know, that needs to be. Also, what would be fascinating is because you were five. You know, your mum and dad might have gone through so much to get themselves to the point where there's a friendship and there's a respect and understanding there.

17:07But what that would have given you is that hope that that is there, that alternative. Yeah, because I think so often we're sold this thing where, you know, divorce is the end. It's horrible. It's, you know, it's all messy. And there are parts of it like that. It can be. But there is also an alternative that is also a possibility. Yeah, well, I think that's kind of like the modern approach, isn't it? I remember it was, was it Gwyneth Paltrow? And they coined the term, what was it, the conscious uncoupling? And I think there's something lovely about that. It's like, look, I know in a perfect world, we would all be like that.

17:41But it doesn't always play out like that. But I feel really proud to say that after a very difficult divorce, you know, we are however many years past that point. And, you know, my ex and I, we do have a very nice relationship. You know, we don't speak as much anymore because Adam's a little bit older now, but we do. We speak. And also you don't know how that's going to change when Adam gets older. If he has children, you know, you're feeling each other's lives. Absolutely. And that was always really important to me. And I needed to give that space, you know, and because, again, every circumstance is different.

18:12But for, you know, for that, for my ex, it was just I needed to give him the time to kind of get over whatever happened. And then once that happened and we were able to kind of rebuild whatever we needed to, it's really, really nice. It's very nice to have that kind of understanding and respect, a mutual respect. And he's remarried and I get on really well with his wife. So, yeah, I'm very proud of that because that's not easy. What you had, though, was the outside noise, which in any divorce is really, really tricky. But your outside noise was so amplified. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With everyone having an opinion.

18:49It must have felt like that. It must have felt like everyone had an opinion on what was going on. I mean, it didn't feel like that. It actually was like that because, I mean, it was all over the newspapers. It was all over the tabloids. It was everywhere. I mean, I'd go to the grocery store. It was on the cover of The Enquirer and all the, you know, tabloid magazines. So, yeah, it was literally everywhere. And that wasn't easy. Yeah. But, you know, I can't complain because, like I said earlier, I'm very lucky and I'm really grateful for, you know, just every... Sorry, what is going on with me?

19:17That's okay. care for everything that I have. I'm very grateful. And, you know, I have to say this because I've done a lot of work on myself. Like I, um, I stopped drinking a year and a half ago, almost a year and a half ago. And that was a pivotal moment for me. And I think, you know, I think you get to stages in your life where you just, um, for me, you realize that certain things aren't serving you anymore. And if you're interested in, you know, growing and learning more about yourself, but like without anything, you talk about the noise and the distractions, you want to learn about yourself and kind of, I guess, heal.

19:56For me, that was the only way to do it. And I think that was really the pivotal moment for me when I stopped drinking, that I was able to really look within and internally and say, okay, this is how I feel. And it's okay to feel whatever those things are and with that comes a real sense of freedom and independence and like you just feel I can't explain it it's like having a breakthrough and like a fog lifted and that that really was um such a huge moment for me I know I would imagine that a lot of parents carry um unnecessary guilt when it comes to divorce when it comes to you know splitting up that family unit yeah and I I would imagine that some of the work is kind of allowing yourself to go, that's life.

20:42Life happens. And you've got Adam who's a, you know, who's grown up. He's a man. And hopefully he can say to you as well, look, mum, we're okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's, you're right. I think guilt is, whether you're divorced or not, I think any, like we're talking about mums here, mum guilt is a real thing. And it could be to do with anything. It could be to do with, I mean, I have this sometimes, like if I, you know, can't drive Eric to school one day or I can't pick him up or I forgot to bring the snack with me to, you know, to the pickup. And it's like all those little things. There's always there's always an element of guilt.

21:21Yeah. But I really think that we all need to give ourselves some more grace and allow ourselves just to be human because, you know, mothers and women, we're carrying so much. And it's one of those things that we just have to give ourselves more grace and realize that every day is a new opportunity to do better and to learn and to grow. And as long as you're open to that and you're looking at yourself and saying, OK, well, what did I learn from that? And how can I do that better? Then I think it's all a process and it's all a learning curve. Yeah. Has it taken you a long time to get to that place?

21:59Absolutely. Yeah. I'm still getting to that place every single day. you know but that's what I love about being a mom I think um every day there's challenges and there are you know there's beauty there's joy there's everything but but you know it's it's also worth it yeah you know did you always know that you wanted to be a mom I did I did yeah why am I crying so much it's okay I'm so sorry it's all right yes I always knew I wanted to be a mom um I always knew and you know I had I had two very great pregnancies I was lucky with that too I loved being pregnant with both my boys and um did you get quite a pregnant quite quickly with Adam um yeah I think so um yeah it didn't take long with Adam so yeah it's um I always yeah I always knew I wanted to be a mom definitely and did your but were your pregnancies very, very different?

22:59Uh-uh. No. Very similar. Like, even down to the things I was craving. Like, I remember all I wanted to eat was cheeseburgers. It was so weird. It was like every day I think I was eating a cheeseburger. It was just the one thing I craved. It was so random. Cheeseburgers and pickles. Well, pickles is like a kind of a cliche thing when you're pregnant, right? But pickles and cheeseburgers. But both pregnancies, it was the same. But I did have two really easy and just really lovely pregnancies. Yeah. Yeah, I was lucky. Can you remember finding out you were pregnant with Adam? Yes. I think so. Yes, we were in the Hamptons.

23:35Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, my God. Yeah, you stumped me for a second. It was so long ago. We all talk about a man. I feel really old. It was almost 21, no, 21 years ago. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, so that was a long time ago. So had you had symptoms at that point that made you go, oh. Just being tired. Right. I think, yeah. I think I remember the, well, it was different, actually, for both. Because when I was pregnant with Eric, so I was flying back and forth every week to see Adam. So I was pregnant and I was on a plane every single Friday. So that was exhausting. But not only just like being pregnant is also exhausting, especially towards the end.

24:13But being on a plane every single week and having to go from New York, which is where Adam lived with his dad. And we have an apartment there. So we had a week on, week off custody arrangement, which is quite normal when you're divorced. But it's really not that normal when you live in London and you live in L.A. So, you know, it was it was definitely challenging. But, you know, looking back on it, I'm like, how the hell did I do that? But you just do it. You just do what you need to do. And that's also one of the amazing things about being a mom is that you just you do whatever you have to do.

24:45And sometimes when you're doing it, you don't even think you just do it. And then you look back and you're like, wow, that was wild. How was that with you when it came to birthing Adam? So easy. Really? Yeah. I know that. I know. I feel really guilty. No, I like this. I like it. It's fine. So Adam's end of January and Eric is Valentine's Day. So both boys were born like in the dead of winter in New York City and it was freezing. I think it was snowing for both boys' births. And, but both of them were super easy. But can I just tell you the story about when I had Eric, when Simon came to the hospital.

25:20So Simon had just finished filming BGT. Right. And we had planned for him to come to New York for Eric, you know. But we, I mean, obviously. But that's also hard not knowing when you're going to go to labor. Exactly, exactly. Because both of my births were natural, no C-sections or anything. So, but we kind of planned it that he was going to come, I think, a week before my due date. Right. So we were all ready and everything was like that. And he had finished BGT auditions the night that I went into labor. This is crazy. And I, my mom was in town. She was visiting me from Miami. She was in New York.

25:55And I remember saying goodnight. I had a phone call with Simon. It was obviously he was in London. So it was five hours behind where I was in New York. I said goodnight. I went to bed and it must have been, I don't even know what time it was, maybe midnight or one o 'clock in the morning, my time. And my water broke in my bed. So I woke up and I woke my mom up. She was sleeping in the other room. And I was like, mom, my water's broke. We need to go to the hospital. So, and I was pretty, I was calm. And my mom was going crazy, I remember, because she is, like, really crazy. But I called Simon, and I was like, babe, you need to come.

26:30My water's broke. So I don't know how he figured out. He got, because he had a plane booked. And the plane that he had booked wasn't able to get to him in time. So he had to get on a commercial flight. But then the plane was still booked. So then our housekeeper, Brenda, she got on the private plane with our four dogs. and I think all the paparazzi were at the airport waiting because then by then it had gotten out in the news that we were having the baby. So Simon gets off the commercial flight and like I don't think they clocked it yet that he was on that flight. They thought he was on the private plane and then Brenda lands with the dogs and they get off the plane and the paparazzi are all there.

27:08It's just the dogs arriving. But he got to the airport, not to the airport, he got to the hospital and I was like waiting because I really obviously wanted him to be there. So I was like telling the nurses, I'm like, don't give me my epidural yet. I don't want to have this baby yet. I want to wait. So then once I knew that he had landed. But you do realize, Lauren, that without the epidural, the baby will still come. I know. I know. I don't know what I was thinking. It's not a block. I know. Yeah, that's a good point. I don't know what I was thinking. All that's happening is you're going to feel this.

27:35Yeah, exactly. But yeah, good point. So he landed and I said, OK, fine. Give me the epidural now. So they did. Or was it Pitocin that they had to give me? Maybe it was the Pitocin. I think it was. to make the cervix go right I think it was I can't even remember exactly but he lands they gave me whatever they had to give me and then as he was arriving at the hospital it was like okay I'm ready and then and then it was probably an hour and then Eric came out and that was it but yeah it was quick and also that I wonder if your body once he was actually there just sort of relaxed a hundred percent yeah it was like I just needed to wait for him to get there and then I was like okay right let's do this let's go and that was it I know how was that moment oh my now I'm gonna cry again um it was I'll never forget that moment because I just I have these amazing photos of I mean my sister was in the room with us she was actually in the room for both of my boys births and I remember her standing standing there just like kind of watching over everything and she's She's so adorable.

28:39But yeah, having her in the room was so comforting because she and I are so close and she didn't have any children yet. So she had been there for both of my boys and now she has a son, Lumi, who's seven. He's adorable. But yeah, Simon was so emotional. And I just remember, I remember thinking in that moment, just, God, your life is about to change and you have no idea like what's about to happen to you. and I don't even think he I mean there's no way he could have known because you know he was somebody who basically had everything you know under control and he kind of had his ways about him and I think you know becoming a father I mean it's very well documented I think it really well I don't think I know it's completely changed his life so yeah that was a really amazing moment What was it like to have that knowledge because obviously having already had Adam you know how you know children do take over to a certain extent and your life is guided by the fact that you have a child your child is your number one responsibility yeah more in thought how was that then knowing that that eric's arrival was going to have such a massive profound effect well yeah i mean i i didn't really understand like the gravity of how it would change simon's life and and just like the dynamics and everything, I knew, but I didn't really know if that makes sense.

30:06So after having Eric, I mean, you know, I guess with, it's probably the case with any dad or a new parent, you just don't realize, I guess, that, that, that type of a love that, you know, that you have when you, when you have a child. So I think, you know, for, for Simon, I think he just watching him evolve and change into that role, you know, it's, it's been really incredible, but um yeah it was i knew it was gonna have a profound effect but i i didn't really understand to what extent but i mean gosh he is he's a completely changed person well someone who is so work focused yeah you know that has been from the outside yeah he's sort of driving force so what like that is that is his life that is his role um to have something that's going to completely flip that yeah and probably make a leveler stop in the way that you know we need to as humans well He definitely hasn't stopped anything, that's for sure.

31:03But take a different pace every now and then. Yeah, Simon is one of those people who is, he is completely like, I don't want to use the word workaholic because that has like a derogatory. He loves his work. I was just going to say that, you know, a lot of people have like a passion that's outside of their work or they have a hobby or they have something else that they enjoy doing. with Simon it is it's all encompassing in the sense that his work is his passion it is his hobby and and I think he's incredibly lucky to have that because he loves what he does and he loves he he still gets so much joy like you know and I sometimes think god how many how many people or how many dogs can you see come on stage and do whatever they do it's like it's a dog right Right, but he does have a soft spot for dogs.

31:52We know that. I mean, we both do, to be fair. But yeah, I am still really amazed. It's quite sweet, actually, because I think, you know, he really has almost like a child, and actually even more so since he had Eric, but I think he has this kind of way of looking at the world and looking at things almost like a child. He's always interested, and he really loves people, and he loves people's stories. and so I think that's great because he loves doing what he's doing because he really enjoys to hear the stories and he loves to see the journey of all these people that come on, and animals that come on his show and it's amazing.

32:32So what was it like finding out that you were pregnant with Eric? Talk me through those emotions Lauren. It's hard because it was like, there's so many emotions that went with that because it was like the end of my marriage, obviously. And I, you know, looking back on that time, it was like, it was one of the hardest times of my life because I'm, I'm so, I don't want to say regretful because I don't regret anything and everything happens in your life for a reason. And I'm a firm believer in that. Like, so do I, do I wish that it had happened a different way and that I could go back and change certain things.

33:15Of course I do. It's hard though, isn't it? Because if you change one part of that, you've got Eric. Yeah, it's like sliding doors. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's very, very difficult. Yeah. Yeah, but in that moment to kind of go, now I really have to face what's going on. I have to face that I'm not happy in this marriage. But I think everything happens for a reason. And I really do. And Simon and I had that discussion at the time. It was like, right, this has happened, you know, and you know there's more conversations that went on which you know would I'd rather keep private but it was just one of those moments where like I knew it was right and I knew that that was what I wanted and I knew that Simon was the person that I wanted to spend my life with and so however we got there and however it happened I just believe that it was meant to be and like I said as much as I wish I could go back and take away the hurt and take away the pain that that caused for you know my ex-husband and for adam and for my family and for various people it it happened and you know um yeah but so the emotions were were intense yeah and they they they were wide-ranging so there was you know there was a lot of emotion at the time were you able to to lean into the joy of it because that you know that is a life that's there but obviously with that yeah does create that ripple effect and there's so much different things going on yeah do you know what I don't think I've ever really thought about that gee I think when you're in like fight or flight mode which is kind of what I was in at the time because I had there was so much public interest in what was happening and it's like I don't know if you've ever been like the the recipient of that type of like appetite and hunger for you know salacious gossip and stories but it was that it was like that was the goal was like people wanted.

35:07Remind me, people finding out about you, were they at the same time finding out that you were pregnant? Yeah. Because it was so long ago. Yeah. It is that it does get blurred, doesn't it? In your head. So that, that is such a. Yeah. I mean, did I lean into the joy? I would say probably not. Sadly, because as I said, I was in fight or flight mode and I was just trying to do everything I could to protect Adam. That was the main thing on my mind, the only thing on my mind at the time. I didn't, look, I cared what people were saying about me, but I didn't have time to think about it. Well, so you can't do anything about that.

35:45People are going to say what they're going to say. So what I really wanted to do was just keep Adam protected in all of that. And, you know, it was hard because the circumstances were so outrageously difficult. I I mean, you know, again, another story for another time. But that was my priority was just to keep Adam shielded and protected. And, you know, it was hard. And so I probably didn't get to experience the joy of that pregnancy, especially not in the early days. And really, again, sadly, probably not throughout the pregnancy. I was just so in fight or flight. I was just trying to get through it and just try to like wake up every day and not, I don't know, fall apart.

36:36Because it was like, it was intense. You know, you have to imagine everywhere I went, there were people. I mean, I lived, I was still in New York and then, you know, still going back and forth. And like, it was just, the way I can describe it is I felt like I was walking around with like a scarlet letter. And everywhere I went, because New York, even though it's a big city, it's really small, especially where I lived, which was like the Upper East Side. And it was just like the way that people would look at me. And, you know, I was on the cover of every magazine and it was like news stories about Simon being Simon.

37:01And then it was just it was awful. But, you know, again, it's just I don't ever want to be a complainer or a moaner. You're not. But this is nothing I have nothing to complain about. And I was the one who caused it. So it's almost like I deserved it, you know, whatever. But that's so hard, isn't it? Because I think also in life, life happens. and you can't, you know, things happen and that doesn't, that thing that happens does not define you. It's not who you are. It did though for a while, gee. So this is where I think, like. I think this is why you're emotional now about becoming you. Maybe, maybe.

37:38I totally do, Lauren. You know, I know it's been a long time, but you started your time in the public eye with, and I'm saying this as someone who, I wasn't fully aware. I would imagine that you would have felt like certain people felt a certain way that people thought a certain thing of you. Definitely. And now... And I don't blame them. I don't blame them. I would think the same.

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39:21But you know as a human that that doesn't define who you are and that you know. Exactly but I wasn't strong enough and I don't think I felt that I had earned it. So it's so interesting the way that like our brains work right and I swear I've never articulated this before. I feel like I'm in a therapy session. But I think that, you know, for me, I felt like, okay, this has happened. I'm a big girl, I've got to, you know, suck it up. And I've got to just get on with it. And I kind of whatever's coming at me, I deserve it, I'll take it. And I'll just keep my head down. And that's what I did for a really long time.

40:02I just kept my head down. I just kept going. because I was like a part of me knew, well, if it was somebody else in my shoes and I was looking in from the outside, I would think exactly the same thing. So I was just like, it's fine. It's cool. I deserve it. But now as I've gotten like all these years in and I feel like I've not proven myself because I don't have to prove myself to anyone, but I feel for me that I've like done the work on myself. I have forgiven myself. I have done whatever I feel I need to do to make peace with the situation. So now I feel like whatever I put out there and whatever people are saying or thinking, it's too bad.

40:46I don't really care anymore. And the repair is nothing to do with the public. It's nothing to do with the press. It's nothing to do with anyone that is not actually a part of your life. It's all inside of me. And it's really with Adam. I mean, Eric's too young. We've never had the conversation about any of this. But Adam is the one always, always, always that I think about in all this. And, yeah, it's just that I think was always what kept me kind of grounded, you know. But, yeah, I feel like I've, like, earned the right to be here now. You know, I've put up with, you know, a lot of stuff. I've, you know, I've paid my dues, I guess.

41:22I know it sounds so weird, but it's like now I just don't really want to have to worry about it anymore. And it's very it's very liberating. It feels good just to take that away from, you know, take that weight off and just leave it. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good place to be. Yeah. Because you can't go through life beating yourself up for something that happened 13 years ago. Yeah. Almost 15 years. Yeah. Yeah. 13 years. I'm so bad at math, but yeah, you're right. It's just Eric's age. Exactly, plus one. Yeah. Yeah. That must have been a tricky pregnancy simply because of what you were dealing with emotionally.

42:07And I know friends who have gone through big things when they're pregnant and actually, in some aspects, they're in denial about the pregnancy. They're not addressing the fact that they're pregnant. That's kind of like a side thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably how I was. Yeah. how were things when eric arrived in terms of just in terms of you and life at that point because i think it's one thing to have the apprehension of what that new life is juggling is going to look like but actually when when eric arrived surely at that point you could start kind of finding yourself into a into a rhythm yeah definitely to a degree um there was there was a schedule.

42:45I don't know if I would call it a rhythm, but there was a definite structure and a schedule in the sense that I had my custody arrangement. So I would have to be back and forth, you know, a week on and a week off. And in the beginning, I used to take Eric with me. And I'm actually so glad I did do that because one of the things that was so important for me was that the two brothers had a bond. And thank God I did that. And I was, again, And so lucky to be able to do that. I had, and I still have amazing people around me. I had, who you met, my incredible nanny Claire. And I had another nanny at the time, Lucy.

43:23And, you know, I couldn't have done any of this without them. So we just have such amazing people who work with us. We are so lucky. And, you know, to have that support, you know, I couldn't have done any of it without that. Because it was, you know, a tremendous amount of traveling. and sometimes with Eric and with, you know, an entourage because we would have the nanny and we'd have this and that. But, you know, and then other times I couldn't bring him with me, you know, for whatever reason, either he was ill or there was just, you know, it just wasn't possible. So to be able to also leave knowing, you know, because I was always leaving somebody.

43:57I was always either leaving Adam or leaving Eric or leaving Simon. So it was always like that sense of being pulled. That must have been so hard, especially, I would imagine, especially with with adam in the sense that he was your first yes and and you'd not had time away from him in that way and then suddenly you're in a position where each week you're not you know that you're not going to be seeing him and that you're going to have to not be in new york yeah that was the hardest thing i mean it's still i think i've probably blocked a lot of that out because if i think about it you know you just like sometimes you just you just go forward and i guess i'm someone maybe and again I never articulated this out loud but I think I'm I am probably somebody who doesn't really often look back yeah and reflect on the past because I'm so focused on just moving forward and getting to the next place but I think like I'm starting to realize that actually being where I am right now is so important to like appreciate and embrace and be like look what happened in the past is the past.

45:03It happened. It factors in in the sense that you are where you are now because of what happened in the past. And obviously, we have goals. We have things that we want to achieve and accomplish. But there's something really beautiful about being in the moment and in the present and trying to enjoy what you have right now and not thinking about the past and trying not to think about the future. And that's what I'm really focusing on right now but also you can you can be where you are now because of all the work that you've put in during that time because of how hard you worked to to be there for adam to be there for eric to try and juggle which as a as a woman as a mom you're literally putting yourself apart in a million pieces yes yes it must be how does it feel now now that adam is older he can travel he can be with you like he's an independent man yeah you know how how does that feel feel for you well I just feel I'm so proud I'm so proud of him yeah I'm proud of me I'm proud of my family I'm proud of Simon like we got through so much stuff you know and some of the stuff again if I think back on it I'm like how the hell did we get through that how the hell did we manage but you just do it you just do and you know when you get to the other side it just you you recognize and you realize just um how how strong and how resilient we really are as humans yeah and again I want to say like having the support around it's so important um but I think it it feels so good to be in a place right now where I feel like both of my kids are okay yeah and we're okay you know and now I can focus on um you know obviously my children are always going to be no matter how old they are they're always my number one priority both of them and Simon I'm I'm a real family person like I like my family comes first but do you feel like there was a massive difference between Adam and Eric in terms of because it life changes doesn't it and the tech changes and all that stuff changes oh gosh the tech was there a massive difference between eric eric's childhood and adam's childhood do you feel like that you could see that even just within those years definitely um so i think with you mentioned tech i think with technology particularly um this is something that i am moving into you know with my campaigning and everything but with Adam we didn't even we didn't even think about social media or even like the phone at that time I mean he actually he had a phone because primarily because of the divorce because it's a way of him to contact both parents all the time so going back and forth between the two homes it was an essential thing rather than a kind of novelty it was essential because in the beginning it was really difficult the communication between well you don't want your child to feel like they have to ask you to speak to the other parent of course yeah and that so that was kind of where we were at with with phones and things like that but I actually didn't even know when Adam got Instagram or Snapchat we talked about it recently because of my campaigning but he told me recently that he didn't have Instagram until he turned 18 oh till he went off to college.

48:33He didn't have Instagram. It's very different now with Eric because it's, I guess it's just become more and more something that is part of the conversation. And it's, you know, it's, it's kind of inescapable. And I think like with, with technology, with social media, with all the things surrounding that, we're starting to know more and more and more about the risks and the dangers and the potential harms you know so it's like from all the different aspects of that from a safety point of view from a brain development um point of view there's just so many things now that we know that we didn't know back then yeah and so um yeah that has definitely changed the narrative surrounding that and it feels like more of a conscious decision now whether to or not to give your child so i think so well certainly in our house because we i mean I only just got Instagram in December when we did this documentary.

49:30Well, I got it in November, I think, but it was to promote the show. I never had Instagram. So this is a new thing for me. Which is difficult itself because if your children are on there and they're ahead of you with the tech, how are you ever meant to keep on top of what they're doing on there? Honestly, I don't, yeah. I'm definitely not a tech savvy person at all. But we recently made a decision to give Eric a phone. but this was a very very heavy decision in fact Simon was away when I gave Eric the phone but it was because he had downloaded Snapchat on my phone and during school runs right and we we would go to school every day and I'm driving so I can't be looking at what he's doing in my phone and he's asking me for the phone so he could put music on in the car so I'm thinking okay sure take my phone yeah and then I realized because every time I'd pick him up he started to just like take the phone and it wasn't just about the music.

50:25He was like doing something in the phone. And I finally asked him, what are you doing? He said, Oh, I'm doing this streak on Snapchat. And I was like, what's, what is this a streak? I had no idea what that was. And I still don't even know what it was. All I know is that every day he would get in the car and it was almost like, like this kind of obsessive thing that he would have to grab the phone and start looking and doing this whole thing. And I just realized, you know what, this is not, this is not good. It doesn't seem healthy. And I, And so I deleted the app that day and it was really bothering me all day.

50:56And did you have a conversation with how that made you feel, the fact that he was using it in that way? A conversation with him, with Eric? No, not at that moment. I deleted the app and then when I picked him up that day, that was kind of, I thought about what am I going to do because he's going to kick off about this. He's going to be really upset. And I just wasn't really in the mood to deal with it because Simon was in L.A. he was filming I was on my own and I was like how am I gonna like have this argument with him so I kind of thought okay if I can somehow like give him something rather than just taking something away maybe that will kind of like just soften the blow yeah so what I did was I said um look I've taken snapchat off my phone I don't really like it I don't like what I see it's doing to you um I think it's unhealthy but what I think we can do is because he had always said I really want a phone and we kept saying, wait till you're 13, wait till you're 13.

51:50So that was in a year from now. Like most parents, just like kicking it forward. Yeah, just keep kicking the can down the road. Exactly, for as long as possible. And then, so then I thought, okay, if I give you a phone now, maybe that will just keep him, I think, a little bit, not pacified, but that will just at least feel like he's getting something rather than me just being the horrible, mean mother who's taking everything away from him. So I gave him the phone, but I said, you're not having anything on it. So essentially it's a brick phone. I mean, they hate kids. That's what we've done. We've turned a smartphone into a dumb phone, basically.

52:25But I think we have to come up with a different name for it. I know. Because kids don't want to be like, yeah, I've got my dumb phone, right? Like it's not really cool. So I gave him the phone, but we had somebody come over because I don't know how to do all the parental controls. Do you? No. Well, it's that weird thing of trying to figure it out, the weird each thing, and try and stay on top of it when it changes. It's impossible. So I gave him the phone, but it has literally nothing on it apart from WhatsApp and texting. And I think he has a calculator and like a map and that's it with the weather.

52:59But nothing else. Not even Safari. Same. Yeah. So we do exactly the same. And Val Raldis panicked actually one morning because for some reason Safari had popped back up. Right. So he panicked and came into our room and was like, I've got Safari. But, you know, he knows that he's not allowed it upstairs. He's only allowed it downstairs. Yes. And actually, since he's not bothered by it, it stays on the kitchen side the majority of the time. See, I think it's interesting because when I took Snapchat away from Eric, I thought he was going to kick off. But actually, I think he was relieved. Because, yeah, I do.

53:37Because I think that subconsciously, this pressure that he was having to keep this streak or whatever it was going, I do think he recognized in his own way that it was causing him anxiety and stress so when I removed it from the equation I actually think there was a sense of relief and I think all he really wanted I discovered was he just wanted to be able to message his friends and be a part of like I guess the social aspect of it yeah and unfortunately that is the way kids are communicating these days. It's either through, well, mostly through Snapchat. But when I, when I gave him the phone with the texting and the WhatsApp, he was okay with it.

54:17And so, you know, because suddenly he has a way to connect with his friends. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Me and the one app that Buzz does have on his phone is Duolingo. And so me and Buzz have a streak on Duolingo, which we're very, very happy about. Eric has Duolingo too. Just the other day, funny you should mention that, he asked me to get that and I had to Google it and see if it's an algorithmically driven app which it's not so it's okay we were in Portugal at the time and Buzz just started you know saying the odd phrase here and there we're like go on what language is he learning? well he's doing Spanish at school anyway and then my dad's Italian I'm half Italian so he's actually me too oh really?

54:57yeah I thought so well yeah Giovanna yeah but he's currently doing a bit of Portuguese Spanish and Italian so it's a lot all in one go That's impressive. What he's found is the similarities between certain words. Because they're all Latin languages, right? Yeah. They're part of the, yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, you can absolutely carry on with your streak. That's great. I don't mind that. Do you know, I think we as parents, we have no idea. You know, it's not fair for parents to have that onus and that burden on them. Because as good of a parent as you are and as attentive and as on it as you are, there's no possible way you could know.

55:33There really isn't. There's not. Buzz downloaded, we let him download CapCut because he wanted to put some videos together. CapCut is... I have CapCut. I have never seen the reels, the scrolling. I'd never seen that function on that app before. I was horrified and I actually... Buzz is in a children's TV show and he was away filming and I was checking his phone and I was like, I'm deleting it right now. And then I deleted it and I had that moment of going, fuck I've just deleted this app and now I've got to tell him that I've deleted this app. This was me with Snapchat but you did the right thing and this is the thing that's really scary and this is what I've been trying to amplify and trying to get out there for parents is that there are certain apps that we all know about that you know potentially could be harmful and I don't need to name the apps we know what they are but there's the ones that you don't and that are really deceptive okay because there's the ones like CapCut that you just mentioned there's apps like Pinterest.

56:33And, you know, I did something the other day. I went on because I saw there's a girl that I follow who's in America and her name is Nikki Petrosi. And she has a site called Scrolling to Death. And she's working a lot with some of the organizations over in the U.S. and with the court cases. And I've been following all of that. She's amazing. And she did like an experiment where she went on to Pinterest and opened an account as a 13 year old girl. And then And she started talking about what was fed to her by the algorithm without even looking for it. And so she was talking about that. And I thought, oh, my God, that's really?

57:09That's Pinterest. Pinterest is like, I think about Pinterest as like a crap thing. I wonder, has it been bought by someone over the years that turned into something else? I don't know. Because it used to be somewhere that you just went if you were decorating a room. Exactly. So I did the same thing. But I didn't open an account under another person. I just used my Pinterest account, which I don't really use very often. but I have one. So I went in there and I started typing in some words that were like just key words and just to see what it would feed me. And honestly, the stuff that started coming up onto my feed and being suggested to me was horrifying.

57:46And it actually like, it actually scared me and I'm an adult. And I was thinking to myself, my fucking God, if I was a 13 or 12 year old or a 14 year old girl or boy and I was feeling a little bit low or my self-esteem wasn't you know great and I'm in my bedroom at night and I'm looking at this and this is what I'm being shown God help us and it's that isn't it it's saying to our kids it's not that we don't trust you no not at all you see something you cannot unsee it you can't unsee it there yeah once you cross the cross the threshold yeah it's like Pandora's box is open you mentioned about companies owning other companies and what's interesting is that cap cut which is the one you said did you know it's owned by bite dance who owns tiktok so the company that owns tiktok is called bite dance and they own cap cut and tiktok so it's really interesting yeah yeah it is isn't it what was the point where you started hearing more and more about this subject and it made you go i i need to get involved so i've always been um on you know we're all on these whatsapp groups at school with other parents and other moms, right?

58:54You're laughing because there's so many, there's so many of them, right? Sometimes I have to archive or mute them because I'm like, I just can't be bothered. It's okay if I forget as well as it's fine. Yeah, there's just so much. But so I was on one chat that was, it's called delay smartphones. And there's, there was a lot of chat, like talk and chatter and just a lot of noise on that chat about just everybody seemed to be, you know, concerned about it and or maybe I just started noticing it more recently but it was just one of those things that just kept coming up and I suddenly started thinking wow yeah this is a really big deal and then I was dealing with this in my home as I said with Eric and so when I started to do my research and I started to you know look at stuff online or you know reading different articles I met a woman or I heard about a woman called Ellen Room and Ellen lost her son Jules and I read a story about her I think it was in the Daily Mail yeah and after reading that story I don't know what it was about I mean obviously it was just a tragic tragic story and it was a little boy and he was around the same age as Eric and he would have been around the same age as Adam now so it really hit me and I couldn't I couldn't stop thinking about her and I reached out to her and I just basically said um you know you don't know me I don't know you I read your story.

1:00:19I'm so moved by, you know, everything that you've been through and what you are doing to help other families and other children. And I'm really impressed by you. And I would really love to help. Is there any way I can help you? And so from that, literally, I, we laugh about it now. I kind of stalked her on Instagram, ironically. And she contacted me and then I invited her to my house and we chatted. And then that's how I got involved with the Raise the Age campaign. which is what I've been doing for the last several months now. But that's initially how I... You've been everywhere really trying to campaign and to make a difference.

1:00:59And what I loved is the fact that you said it's not about individual tech companies doing. It needs to be... Across the board. Across the board. Absolutely. And I think that's what happened with Australia. And everyone keeps talking about Australia and that it's not working. And we have to look at it in a different way. I want to flip that narrative for a second because, first of all, Australia, what they've done is they've named specific platforms, okay, which is, that's fine. But in the UK, what we want to do is we want it to be exactly that, a blanket across the board, any platform that doesn't remove or that still has the harmful and addictive features and the stranger person, you know, like contact.

1:01:46In fact, we are not allowing children under 16 to access those platforms. And that's it. And Australia, though, I just recently read a report that we sent our we sent one of the ministers over there to kind of go and see what's how it's going and, you know, what's working, what isn't. And that's the good thing about it, too, is that we get to look at what they've done and we get to say, you know, what is working, what isn't. And some of the things we've identified is exactly that. Like we don't we're not going to name specific platforms. We're going to say any platform that doesn't remove these features.

1:02:20They're not allowed. But what people aren't saying is that the reports are saying that over five million children are off the platform. So that's five million children who are not seeing harmful and, you know, addictive or being exposed to harmful and addictive content. So that's five million. And you're creating a conversation. Oh, yeah. You're creating a conversation to make it not just parents against children, parents telling their kids, you know, it makes it much more of an open discussion about what's going on. Yeah. And the other thing is, if you thought about dropping your child in the middle of Times Square or the busiest place in where, what would be the equivalent of that?

1:03:02Leicester Square? And you've got thousands of strangers roaming around who you have no idea who they are or what their intentions are. And you just leave your kid there to go play for a few hours or all night long. Would that ever occur to you to do that with your child? Of course not. So why are we doing that in the online world? Or, you know, it's mind boggling. Especially when you know how clever the tech is. Tech is so clever. They've got the stuff. They just don't want to implement it. They are some of the most intelligent and powerful and resourceful minds on this planet. They have the most money of any other industry in the world.

1:03:42Do you have conversations with Eric about this? Yes, a lot. And what is that reaction? Because being the mom that is campaigning, you know, and being the one that maybe is, you know, spearheading this for Eric's friends' parents, you know, what is his reaction? You know what? To be fair to him, Eric is a clever boy. Yeah. He gets it. He even will say to me sometimes when he knows he's been, you know, playing his video game for too long. Because right now I feel really bad for him, actually. he's fractured his kneecap and so he's in a leg brace and he's a kid, I know and he's a kid who loves sports like he is like a really active kid so usually, you know, I'll be like just go outside and kick a ball around or go play basketball or run around with the dogs he can't really do any of that right now so I've been giving him some extra leeway and I've been letting him, you know, go on his Playstation and do a bit more, but he'll even say to me and it's so cute, he'll be like Mom, I know I've had like too much time today on my Playstation like you know is this bad and i'm like no no it's fine you're fine like bless him i think he's he's super aware and like but also i think gaming is a completely different area and obviously certain gaming not so much in terms of the access to kids and everything like that some some of it when you look into it is shocking shocking however there is another side of it where it is your child with his mates in this world you hear them talking to each other you hear them creating and building and And that is modern play if your children don't live down the same street as each other or in the same town.

1:05:18Like, there is something joyous in that and there is something to be celebrated in that. What we're talking about is something completely different, which is mindless scrolling. It's damaging, you know, and it is literally sucking the life out of our kids. Do you know what I think? I think this is in a nutshell, I think, what I think. I think that first and foremost, we need the legislation in place. We need to do what we've done in every other area, which is put a minimum age on the harmful and addictive features. Not that anyone should be exposed to harmful and addictive features, but we cannot have kids under 16 being shown the things that they are.

1:05:55End of story. Now, once we get that in place and we have those regulations in place, then it really is up to the parents and it's a conversation you have in your family. But first, we just need to know that it's safe. Like you said, if we're going to put our child in a situation where, and we should be able to do this, by the way, we should be able to say, you know, Eric, you and your friends can go up to your room for, you know, and this is, this is, of course, subject to your discretion for an hour and go play on your PlayStation or go play on Roblox or whatever, whatever it is. But I know that I don't have to be sitting there and like constantly in a panic worrying, is this person, this stranger from wherever going to come in and talk to him or come in and groom him and take him off this platform and take him to another platform and then blackmail him and then God knows what.

1:06:41And that is what's happening to a lot of children. So it's like once we get it to a level playing field where we get this legislation in place, we make the tech companies do what they need to do, which is to change things because they're not and they haven't done. So they need to do that. Once we've done that and we can have a different conversation, which is how, you know, how much you want to allow your kids to be on it because, you know, that's a very personal thing. but you just want to know that if they are doing something that it is safe or it's as safe as it can be Lauren, I love the fact that when you get passionate your Miami, New Yorker Italian side really flares up and that is a delicious thing Simon always says that to me you can take the girl out of Miami but you can't take Miami out of the girl that's for sure I love that if you could write a letter on motherhood who would it be to and what would you say?

1:07:35I love that question and I thought about that before I came here and I was like how do I answer that because do I say you know a relative or a friend or you know one of my kids no I have an answer for you and I think it's it's I would love to say to a new mother or anyone who is thinking about having a child or who is pregnant or who is having a child I would say be easy on yourself be easy on yourself give yourself some grace it's not going to be perfect it will never be perfect but you only can do the best that you can do and like some days they they feel like they are so long like the day sometimes when you're a new mom it feels like oh my god like when is this day going to be over and when can i go to bed and when can i you know get some me time but then in retrospect In hindsight, you look back as a mom who's like had the lived experience and who has kids who are, you know, older.

1:08:37And you look back and you think, my God, that went so fast. And how did it go so fast? It's so difficult. I always say, you know, when people go, you've got to enjoy it. You've got to enjoy every minute because it goes. There are moments where you just feel like you're surviving. There are moments where you just feel like I just have to get through today. And actually, it's OK to say that that's really hard. And I think the pressure of having to enjoy it, it's actually harmful in lots of ways. I don't think that's helping mums go, you just go enjoy this. But I'm broken. You know, that's really hard to do.

1:09:07Well, I think it's like with anything else. Like sometimes when the expectations are so like everyone's telling you that you should feel this and you should feel that. And it's like you kind of get into a mode where you feel like, well, if I'm not feeling those things, then is something wrong? Like, is there something wrong with me? Or, like, am I a bad mom? And I think, like, that's, again, going back to your question, I think it's to tell new parents, new mothers, like, try not to let the noise outside affect you. Try to give yourself grace and to be, you know, kind to yourself. And also try not to lose yourself.

1:09:46I think trying to keep hold of, you know, your values and knowing to trust your gut, that's the biggest piece of advice I would give anyone who's a parent. Trust your gut and go with that. I really think that's so important. With Adam, now that he is, you know, about to turn 21, looking back over that motherhood journey, he is now, you know, a young adult. he's an adult you know if he was here you know he's a man he's a man like how is that to look at Adam now and kind of go do you breathe a sigh of relief I know that that's not the end of the journey he's still got the rest of his life but is there a sense of it's wild actually you know each phase of a child's life brings different you know worries and and different milestones and you know just all different things I think right now I try to say to Adam as much as possible you know, cause he worries a lot about his future and about, you know, finding his passion and what he wants to do with his life.

1:10:51And, and I, I try to say to him, but it's so hard because like, you can only, you can only know this when you've lived that and you have that experience yourself. But I try to just say to him, Adam, and I, and this is for both of my boys, actually, all I care about as a parent is for you guys to be happy, to know like how much you're loved and how much, you know, you have the whole world at your fingertips. Like, you know, you can do anything you put your mind to. Um, and just wanting them to know that like, you can just relax about it. You don't have to figure it all out right now. And, you know, just like, I just want like to, to, to know that my boys are kind, that they are respectful, that they are humble, that they're grateful and appreciative and that they're just decent humans.

1:11:39That is like, that's all I can ask for is a mom. And then everything else is just icing on the cake. Yeah, absolutely. We end the podcast with you completing three sentences. Okay. The first one is being a mom means. Being a mom means everything. Yeah, it means everything. Since having children, I. Oh my gosh. Why are these the hardest questions? Since having children, I have learned to be a lot more giving. And I'm happy when. that's the easiest one when we're all together Lauren I have adored this conversation me too I just think that it's that guilt that we carry so much as mums we cannot be we are not perfect and I just hope that you can look back at your this journey with gratitude that you've got to this point with two children who are very, very happy.

1:12:43You have so much love and that is so clear. And I hope that walking into this next chapter, though, as you, you go into it with pride. We do things in life. It is, it's that, fuck it, we do things. But we carry on walking through it. Life is still there. You have to keep walking forwards. And I really hope that this next chapter brings you more happiness, a small love and a whole lot more fuck it attitude thank you thank you come on give it a hug

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1:14:28We'll be right back. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products, you have to go to Sephora. I'm obsessed with the One Size Liquid Blotting Paper Spray. It's the first of its kind blotting spray that mattifies for up to eight hours. It's unreal. There's also the Summer Friday Shade Drops SPF 50, which basically lives in my bag at this point. Oh, and the Kayali Eden Plush Pear smells so good. It's sweet, warm, and addictive. like people literally stop me and ask what perfume I'm wearing, which you know I love. So if you want the makeup, skincare, hair, and fragrance products everyone's about to be obsessed with, shop only at Sephora.

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