Leanne Quigley on filming The Traitors and the life-changing moment that followed (2/2)

0:04Hello and welcome back to Happy Mum, Happy Baby, the podcast. This is part two of Leanne Quigley's story. I wanted to give it the space it deserves. So you can listen to this part now. You can listen to part one on Tuesday if you've missed that. But I wanted to really let Leanne's story sit with you because she has so much to share and I didn't want to just edit bits out to make it a nice little pocket-sized episode. So I wanted to give you it in full. But we've done that in two parts. You can still, you know, listen to it as you wish. But now you get the full story. Here we go. I mean, it must blow your mind that, you know, three years now.

0:42I know. I just can't believe it. Every milestone I'm obsessed with. Really? Every milestone. They're starting to talk now, so this is incredible. And I think what we were saying before about having babies for a really long time, and I had them for an extra three or four months, it felt like they were just babies all the time for ages, and suddenly I've got toddlers now and they're learning to talk and they're so funny and they've become loving. They wasn't loving for a while and now they're just super loving. They say, love you, mummy. And it's just the most incredible feeling that I could just ever, ever feel.

1:19So this is really, truly like my favourite time of parenting for sure. And that protective side of you, how are you feeling about things like nursery, like school? Or how are you feeling about other people? having that responsibility of checking that they're okay. Terrified. Right. Because in my mind, and I know this, it's just probably toxic of me, but nobody can do it like I can. I don't think that's toxic. I think a lot of people completely relate to that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because I just think, you notice the signs of your children, don't you? I used to notice the sign when they weren't breathing correctly, when to other people, they just look like they're fine.

1:58And then suddenly I'm calling an ambulance because they're not breathing. how I think they should be breathing. And I was right. Your gut instinct as a mum is just second to none. And I just think you have a gut feeling, you always go through with it to the very end because you're always right. But you are so close to them going to school. Oh, gosh. I have a lot to come, don't I? It's next year. I mean, next year is next month. How do you have children who go to school and finish at three, by the way? How do you juggle that? But now one's at secondary school and they finish, like their times are completely different because of the after school clubs.

2:37It's just, yeah. This is why twins is fab, because everything's the same. They'll love the same thing. They'll go to the same club. This is what we're hoping. Yeah, and they're going to be best friends. They're going to stop fighting in the new year. New year, new twins. I'd love that. Mine are 11, 9 and 7. We are still kind of like, leave them alone. Really? Yeah, yeah. Okay, great. so I've got a good 12, 13, 14 years to go. I saw, I mean, I talk about this a lot, but I was in Cornwall once and I saw two brothers following their mums across the road. It was eight o 'clock in the morning. Two older brothers, I mean like early 20s, and they were just walking across the road at eight o 'clock in the morning and one of them just punched the other one for seemingly absolutely no reason.

3:18And it was at that point that I knew that this phase that my kids were in was never going to end. It was never going to end. That's so true. Everybody says it's a phase. I'm like, okay, how long is a phase? like 10 years? I mean, me and my brother, we love a little wrestle. Oh. Yeah. Still now. The kids are like, what are you doing? Why can I put you on Christmas Day wrestling with your brother as an adult? I know, because especially, I know I've got no chance. Yeah, but that makes you want to try harder, right? Exactly, exactly. Please film that. I'll say it just to you. I look forward to it.

3:56But somewhere, like, within this, Within this, you know, you falling into this phase of motherhood where the kids are out and things are starting to settle. Yeah. You sign up for the choices. Crazy. What was it like the day that you left them? Because you're leaving them and you know that communication isn't going to be the best. Yeah. And at a point where there's definitely an element of control. Yeah. And your kids have come out of NICU. Oh, of course. Being in control of knowing when things are, you know, going on. You know how to manage that. what was it like actually leaving to get on that train?

4:31The day I left them, I was heartbroken. My mum drove me to the airport because I flew up to Inverness. You mean the train wasn't a real thing? Oh, the train's a real thing. We went on that a few days later. Okay. Don't worry, that incredible train is so real. That is how you get to the castle, right? Of course. It takes you straight there? Straight to the castle. Straight to Claudia. Straight to the drama. Straight to the round table. I'm sure it's a train stop actually. Traitor's Castle here. Exactly, yeah. It's just you can't see it if you go out in the public on a normal day. It's like platform nine and three quarters.

5:07Exactly, yeah. You understand, everyone understands. So I was heartbroken, I was in tears, cried my eyes out in the car, my mum drove me to the airport. I was just so sad. I knew it was only going to be, I thought I was going to be home a few days later to be honest, I thought I'd either get banished or murdered. But it's just heartbreaking. and it's the first time I'd ever been away from them. And then I thought at that point, what the hell am I doing? Did you feel the anxiety of that or the heaviness of that sort of creeping in in the days before you left? Yeah. Because it's one thing to sign up for something and say yes.

5:41And then I think actually when you're then, it's there. You know it's right there. Yeah. It's days away. For me, I felt like that feeling. Yeah. It's kind of like an emptiness, like, oh gosh, what am I doing? because the whole time, the whole process, like you don't actually think it's going to go ahead. You don't actually think you're going to leave. I do it all the time. I make plans then I regret it hours before. Like why? I just want to stay at home. But yeah, I was riddled with anxiety days before. But I am super lucky that Sophie is a great mom. Like really, really great mom. Never have any worries.

6:16And also I spoke to the welfare team a lot on the show and they were really great. And I know if there was ever anything, they would tell me straight away because I made it very clear, like, I am terrified to be away from my kids. Like, I need to know at all costs that they're okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it must have been strange in the castle because obviously you were, I'm saying castle, it was another castle. It's a castle. I had to question myself then. It must have been strange in the castle that obviously because you have an army background, but you said you were a nail technician, there were elements of yourself that you weren't being truthful about.

6:49But actually, in terms of family life, you could share that stuff freely. yeah yeah completely I think there was quite a lot of comfort in in the other cast members because a lot of us had one-year-olds yeah I mean Mina Mina's little girl was only one at the time Livvy had a little boy um Maya she had a little girl so a lot of us had really young children so that brought us all a lot of comfort and I think on the days that were extra emotional you know when you watch the tv you're like what are they all crying about we're missing home we have babies at home and and it just adds to the pressure and the emotion you're upset about one thing and then suddenly you're upset about loads of things that wasn't even to do with this one thing you know so it's just it's crazy like what your motherly instincts can do to you and the emotions that they can bring I used to have this thing um in the my Welsh castle uh where every night before I fell asleep I would imagine each of my kids and I would kiss them each like and say goodnight to each of them.

7:49Oh, of course, because you didn't have photos. We didn't have photos or anything, yeah. And I chose for my sort of, my treat, my, what is that called? Your writer from home? Yeah, yeah. I chose a song. So I didn't have a physical thing. When I saw people coming in with pillows and mugs, and I was like, oh. You're not going to know them at the time when you think. You don't think you're going to feel that way. You don't know how it's going to feel when you're away from them. No. So I can imagine it's hard. Yeah. So I did kind of crave seeing them. But in my head, I was like, that was actually being able to almost compartmentalise in the day, but actually have that time where my focus was completely on them and just kind of wishing in some ways they could feel this goodnight kiss from me.

8:33I know. Oh, that makes me emotional. It's a very surreal thing, isn't it? Completely. I mean, I was lucky enough I was able to take photos in. So I had photos every night. I would actually take a photo in my little, I'd go to the castle every day with a little toiletries bag and I'd pop a little photo in with them. So every time I would have a little touch up, I'd see my kids, give them a little kiss. But it's still not the same, is it? No, it's not. It's still not the same. It's not. And a couple of weeks in terms of growth of your children is huge. I can remember Victoria Derbyshire, because Max would have been, oh gosh, 14.

9:11No, no, no. He would have been two. He was two. But I can remember Victoria Derbyshire saying to me one day, he's going to be saying so much by the time you come out. And we'd be like, oh, my God. And then the mum guilt. I'm a terrible mum. Why am I in a castle with girls? No, that's the worst thing you could be told. What do I think I'm doing? Oh, that is just the worst feeling. That mum guilt eats you up inside. But at least with you. You had so many other mums of young kids together and that focus and that reminder of why you're in there in the first place. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And we would all really support each other.

9:52We'd speak about our kids all the time. Obviously, you didn't get to see all of it, but that's what kept us going. It truly kept us going. And one of the boys took their first steps while I was away. Did they tell you that or did they just pretend it didn't happen? No, Sophie told you on the first phone call. They didn't tell me anything. they wanted our minds to be in the game completely so they would never speak to us about anything outside of the game there'd be no discussion of anything but i remember when i got my phone back um i called sophie and i was like just please tell me if they walked she was like i was like they've walked haven't they i was burst into tears burst into tears it was just like you know a little step and then a fall over but the change in them when i got home yeah they were different babies yeah three weeks they look different their hair was a different color it was a different texture everything about them was totally different it's crazy what three weeks can do but how was it when you eventually got home because obviously you're going home but going home as a winner yeah oh I had a whole plan of not to tell anybody how did that go not great i think i got about five minutes into being collected from from the airport before i got picked up by my mom my girlfriend and my sister i told him yeah sophie collected me with um so the production told me i was going to get a taxi to pick me up around the airport so it's pretty late i think i got i landed in manchester maybe eight o 'clock and they said oh a car company called Kitty Caps is going to pick you up.

11:29I didn't think of anything at the time, Kitty Caps. And Sophie stood there with a big sign saying Kitty Caps. So I burst into tears, even though I didn't even see her three weeks ago. But it's just, it's a weird feeling, isn't it, when you're away filming a show and you come back and see your family. You're like, oh, thank God. Yeah, it's really surreal. Yeah, it really is. You know, all my kids wanted, and obviously it would be different for you because ours was aired while we were there. all my kids wanted was me for me to go and watch the episodes with them come on mama mama come mama come yeah we'll start watching it from the beginning did they watch it every day yeah and I had this um uh little hand signal so when Anton Deck would say who was uh about to leave I would do I put my thumb on my nose and I'd wiggle my fingers um because we tried we tried thinking about other little subtle ways that I might be able to kind of because people would tug their ear or just like wipe their nose, like just brush their nose.

12:25And that would be a thing. And I just thought actually I want it to be very, very clear. Yeah. And you know, working in TV, you know, and watching I'm a Sled for So Long, you know when that camera's on you. Yes, of course. Just for that moment. That's the only time you know. Yeah, yeah. So I started doing it. And Tom throughout the time took photos of the kids doing it back. Oh. And there were times actually, part of me was like, am I allowed to do this? And then Dec came in one day and he did it to me. Oh. I was like, okay. little things like that aren't they just so emotional but it's ridiculous right that's your tie to home and I know it's ridiculous and you know people were in the army who were away for months but it's your version of it right and it's relative to you in that time it's totally different the things you'll do for your children it's just so funny why am I crying at you pulling a silly face on me I know after everything you've already shared but it was that that sent you over the edge that's really tipped me over now I can't that was a cherry on the cake oh god that was really you must have been I mean after you know everything that you went through the kids you must have been riding quite the high at that point oh we were on cloud nine I mean the way I told them I got my sister to take a picture of me and Soph with the sign I told my mum to get in and she was like no you have a photo but I put the I put it on record.

13:50Yeah. And then I said, so we've won 47 grand. And then she was like, what? And then my mum was jumping and screaming. And then I was like, oh, this is just so, such a nice moment. Because I was just, I never wanted to tell anybody. I just wanted them to see it. But I'm so glad that I did. That must have made watching it together, like a different experience as well. To know that you all know how this ends, but not knowing how it happens. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, it was so weird to watch it back with my family. Really? So weird. I love the fact that the kids are going to be able to watch it. Oh, I can't wait.

14:27I can't wait. It's amazing. I know. They're still too young to understand yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But one day. Yeah, absolutely. There was a part during the show where I had to pause it and send photos to my friends being like, are we all seeing this? When you're all running up this hill carrying... I was like, they are definitely all carrying giant penises. We didn't see that. We didn't see that at the time. And then I was sat on that sofa. I was like, what the hell are they? Have they doctored that? How did none of us see that? We are such innocent people on that show. But I love the fact that the editor must have been sat there and he was filming and he was like, hold on a second.

15:07No. We could have gone wrong here. Literally, they couldn't have looked more like penises if they tried. Just giant penises. How did all of us miss that? how did none of us at the time realise we're just carrying huge, huge penises up this hill? Massive. It was so funny. It was so funny. I had to pause it and laugh a lot. Things like that as well that we don't notice when we were filming that we ended up seeing and how it unfolded was just hilarious. Yeah. Like so funny. Yeah. They won't do that again. No giant penises in Trader's Fall. Or they might, I don't know. It costs on publicity. you say like sometimes those little things that happen yeah that you can't predict what's going to turn into like a viral moment literally maybe the editor did yeah for sure if he didn't what an innocent mind he has but then as that kind of you're riding that wave and then it's only a few weeks or a month later that sophie discovers a lump yeah well i mean days after i got home from filming she discovered a lump really days yeah because i remember it was the very beginning of june and it was actually the morning of her sister's engagement party right and she said to me i can feel this really weird tiny thing and when i say tiny i mean it felt like a crumb she was like maybe it's my bone it was that small i don't know how the hell she came across it um but it was again it was one of them you know go to the doctors anyway just to check it out and yeah well actually I mean at the start I love it when you start brushing this off and yeah yeah you know just one of them things again just another part of the story yeah I know it's you know we're diving a little bit deeper yeah okay let's go so actually she's told it's benign and then it's nothing yeah so what made her go back so she didn't so she was told she had a call to go back so we went together um because obviously I was starting to get really worried because it was growing like super quick I was like maybe it'd be a cyst or I don't know um and then when she was told it was um benign non-cancerous we were like oh thank god nothing to worry about so a week after that she had a call to go back in um there was never anything mentioned sadly you know maybe bring someone with you or I wish there was because she went by herself so she was told she had breast cancer by herself on her own and I think that will haunt me forever knowing that I could have been there and I wasn't there because she was just popping off to an appointment but when you've already been told the results yeah yeah it's benign yeah you know you've already been told the news that you want yeah so why in your brain would you ever kind of go but why am I being called back in yeah of course because she actually thought she was going back in to discuss whether um this lump of tissue in a breast is just gonna make its way back into the body or they can remove it it was completely up to her because that discussion was had the week prior so that she thought that's what the conversation was gonna be just an ordinary appointment and it was just never an ordinary appointment that must have been an awful phone call for you after as well horrendous I was actually with her sister when we got the call and luckily actually one of our family friends um who's actually going through cancer herself was in hospital at the time in the same waiting area as Sophie so she obviously knew Sophie was about to get diagnosed before Sophie did because Sophie was like oh I'm just here for this appointment and but our family friend was like you wouldn't be here for that so she actually waited for her thank god while sophie went in with the specialist so sophie then got told she had cancer and then she said i think um our family friends outside can she come in and that's who called us and me and sophie's sister were together at the time and i was just i just fell to the floor i think i threw up um just the biggest biggest shock of my entire life yeah um And then one of our friends drove us up to hospital because we were just in no fit state to drive.

19:25What was it like when you saw Sophie? She was sat on a bench and then she seen us and she just broke down. And she had all these booklets and so much information. It was just like, this is all happening really fast. She was like, I'm going to start chemo in a couple of weeks. And we were like, what? Like that quick. And then one of the first thing that came out of her mouth was I'm going to lose all my hair. And it broke my heart. And actually you think, is that one of the first things you think about? But your hair is just your whole identity, isn't it? It's like, it's your whole look and your whole, it's you.

19:59And I think once that's taken from you, it's stolen from you and it kind of like strips you from your whole identity. And it's really weird to think that, but it's true. I know, it's that thing. People can, you know, it's just hair. It's not just hair. It's not just hair. I know. and um yeah and that was one of the main well not one of the main things she would say to me um within the first few weeks because you have a first few weeks of the unknown again constantly in times of unknown we didn't know the stage the grade or you know what the outcome could be if it had spread so we had to wait a good few weeks for testing and every day she would just break my heart saying I just want to watch the kids grow up.

20:44And that's the thing as a mum, right? So I do these treks for Copperfield. So I walk with a lot of people who have had a breast cancer diagnosis. Yeah. And it's that people wanting to get to different milestones and just not knowing what, knowing the things that we can't control. Exactly. And I think not having control is the scariest thing. And that time between diagnosis to finding out what that treatment plan is, to finding exactly what it is that your diagnosis actually is, it feels so long. So long. And I don't know how you fill it without those thoughts coming into your head. Yeah. And as a family, you know, and you have to be strong for her and, you know, and she has to sort of, it must be really hard when your focus, Because your joint focus has been on getting the boys healthy.

21:39Yeah. Getting the boys out of hospital, keeping an eye on them, making sure that, you know, their lungs are doing what they should. Yeah. You don't look at each other in a way of, like, thinking that one of you is going to be the one. No, never. Never, ever, ever. And I think I'd put myself in her shoes and I would say, I just think all the time, don't say things like that. Like, we're going to get through it. The boys are going to grow up two mums like they've got now. But I put myself in her shoes and I thought, you haven't got control over your own life anymore. Your life is in somebody else's hands of medicine, of science again.

22:15And it was just terrifying. Terrifying. We actually filled those couple of weeks. We had our first family holiday booked with the boys. Only two days after she got diagnosed. Wow. I know. And my mum, bless her, she booked the whole thing. My mum's a single mum. She's great. She's bionic. She really is. It's fact. That's actual fact. So she booked it all. She never gets to go away because my little sister's disabled. So it's not often she gets to do things like this with her kids. And it was a really hard, heartbreaking holiday. And we still went because we thought, listen, we're going to be sad at home.

22:53Let's go sad in the south of France. So we did. And we were sad in the south of France. But we were together. and when there'd be times where she would really struggle like completely in her own head, which is completely understandable. But yeah, the holiday was really, really difficult. And I feel bad for my mum as well because like she worked so hard, tried to take us all away and it was just heartbreaking. Again, for her to see her baby going through this, not knowing how to fix it, as mums would love to do. Yeah, and I think my mum's seen Sophie as well because they've got such a great relationship.

23:35They're so close. It was like Sophie to my mum is another daughter. So to my mum it was like watching one of her children just go through hell. So it was a really difficult, really long couple of weeks. And in the same way that you had to watch your children going through stuff, knowing that... Again, I have no control and I'm just trying to fix everything around me. I was like, how is this happening? That's a lot to carry. You've now got toddlers, you've got a breast cancer diagnosis to navigate your way through, which again, in the same way as NICU, it's a whole new world of whole new terminology.

24:19I always feel like a lot of the time you're hit with that scenario you're put into that world yeah and it's like you are meant to know everything about everything exactly and I I always say like I was always lucky enough to not it's blissful ignorance isn't it you you don't know what you don't know and I was lucky enough to never know anybody to go through cancer until Sophie did so suddenly somebody so close to me my children's mum to be diagnosed of it and I know nothing about it was really scary yeah so again I just delved into it and try to learn as much as I possibly could.

25:01How did it feel when there was suddenly a treatment plan put in place? I think we thought that it was going to make us feel much better, I think, because the two-week wait is just horrendous. But actually when we had the plan, it was like, okay it's only just starting actually we've gone through weeks of hell um not knowing and actually it's only just starting we were already exhausted by it um and i think knowing what's to come is is it's reassuring but it is scary because it's still the unknown isn't it you never know how much of it is going to work you never know how it's going to affect your body these they're really strong drugs aren't they so again we're in the unknown i guess a few days after sophie's first chemo she proposed she did well what a time i mean what a whirlwind so actually we were due to go on a holiday with sophie's family this time right um to portugal it's actually her mom's 70th birthday present we're all going to go away and i didn't know she was planning to propose there so obviously we had to cancel all of our plans for the rest of the year so when she got diagnosed she had chemo and I didn't know all this but she was planning with her brother and sisters my sister-in-law um I'm gonna see how I feel after the first day of chemo and if I feel good I'm gonna take her to the lakes I'm just gonna I'm gonna propose there I was doing it this time anyway I'm not stopping anything you know I'm not I'm not gonna let it control my life any more than it possibly is so she had chemo which was a really emotional day I um I got all of her family to write her a letter oh god I can't talk about it it was really emotional um and then the next day I woke up no sorry it was the day yeah was it the next day yes it was the next morning after um we're sat on the sofa I was like how are you feeling like just I think I was treading like eggshells all the time not in the way it means but i was just so scared of the answer yeah of are you okay um she's like yeah she's like um do you want to go pack your bag what are you talking about she's like we're gonna go on a night away i was like so you've just had chemotherapy what do you mean we're going on a night away crazy she's like no we're just gonna have a nice night away so i packed my bag and then she drove us up to the lakes uh we had such a nice day she was like we're not gonna talk about cancer we're not gonna talk about chemo we're just gonna just have a normal day and we did and it was really nice um and then she took me on a boat on a really stormy day and proposed to me oh and it was just lovely it was so nice i love the fact that she's like look cancer's not going to stop me and this stormy bloody weather is not going to stop me either we're getting on that boat we nearly went overboard and i think that's what made it just so funny because it was so rocky we were scared on this boat but it was so nice yeah and just for a day like life felt completely normal again and the night actually because we stayed the night there um and it wasn't until so we got home from the lakes the next day um I think it must have been on the Sunday and she'd arranged for all of her family to come around and celebrate there we had Prosecco there was buffet food and we just had like a really small like little gathering my mum at the time lived in Nottingham so she drove up I didn't know that Soph had arranged all this and it was just so nice like a weekend that I thought was going to be the worst weekend of my life Sophie's first chemo it was actually the best and like she managed to turn that around after going through hell um and it wasn't until that night actually um that it really hit her like like a boss and she's like I think my body is starting to really shut down now so that is when it really started that night and she was just bedridden and completely not in control of of her body at all that must be so difficult as a partner to to watch the person that you love going through that yeah it's unexplainable I I just remember feeling once because I am the type of person I will I don't like asking for help so I'm like this is my family these are my kids I can do this and for a while I was I was coping but I think everybody's everybody's got a got a point a breaking point right I just remember also you've got two like little kids yeah two one-year-old demand a lot from you yeah you know demanding they did and navigating navigating that yeah you you have to be able to say I know and I learned that and it took me to have quite a breakdown to to do that but it shouldn't get to that point everybody should accept the help and take the help and I did and I started to um and Sophie's family was great my family was amazing my mum bless her was up all the time um and she actually lives here now yeah she actually moved up and I think it kind of like gave us all the realization that life's too short yeah so she left her life in Nottingham and she's moved over to Wales and she lives around the corner now which is amazing so all of our family is just around us yeah which is so nice um but yeah it was it was hard you know i had the twins downstairs um sophie upstairs poorly hoodson in and out of hospital it was just and just so they really don't understand what's going on so their needs are just you know yeah normal yeah yeah you know they're none the wiser you know it became normal to them to just pop their head in before bedtime and say no night mommy while she was in bed yeah and that just became their norm and and it's sad actually to think that sophie lost nearly six months of the twins growing up due to being so poorly with chemo it really did knock her off her feet i think it affects everybody in different ways but god she was really poorly were you still working at this point were you able to have some time away i um so i actually was still in the army I didn't officially leave the army until the October last year but I'd got myself a part time job just to keep myself busy after the traitors and also I said so I didn't want anyone to know that I'd won so I was like if I get a job nobody would know that I'd won got myself a part time job and that was a week before Sophie got diagnosed with cancer so then I was like got myself a job, I have to juggle a job I have to juggle twins, I have to juggle a poorly partner and I was like okay this is just crazy too much I mean the start of your motherhood your journey into motherhood if you like, you were still in the army what was that like what are the army like in terms of pregnant women and mums I was posted to the Yorkshire Med regiment in Chester and I was really worried about going back to work because I was just I was set on leaving the army right because I knew that I I couldn't stay in the army I can't travel with the kids they need to be in one place for medical reasons so I really didn't want to go back but I had to go back you have to go back you have to work your notice and it's a year's notice um but actually I was posted with um a Yorkshire regiment and they were amazing and I really didn't think they were going to be because you know it's all men you know they're all fighting to be the alphas but actually they were really really incredible they looked after me any appointment that i needed to go to any checkups with the kids i'd be there um and they made it really a really easy transition for me yeah which i was really grateful for so i feel like i ended the army on on a really good note that's good yeah because i guess it's it's one of those things where you probably don't see that many pregnant women in the army?

33:06No, no. I mean, that's what I was worried about, especially joining a regiment which is primarily men. Are they going to understand? And actually, they really did. Yeah. They were really good. My boss was really great, really understanding. Can you imagine for your boys when they grow up to understand that you were in the army? I know. That's quite badass. It's quite cool, I know. I just hope they don't want to join. Do you? Yeah, I do. So why don't you want them to join the army? Because obviously it's been good to you. It's been really good to me and I owe the army a lot. But I think I'm so fearful now of being a mum.

33:50I'm scared when they go to the park. They're going down the slide. I'm like, Sophie, go hold his hand. I'm too overprotective. I know I am. I'm very aware of it. So the thought of them joining the army and I don't know. It scares me. Yeah, well, and also, you know the realities of being in the army. Yeah, yeah. I just think everything in life, I'm terrified of now. Everything. But isn't that crazy because you face so much? I know, I know. And I just say, being a mum has changed me completely. I'm scared of everything. I'm scared of flying aeroplanes. I'm like, everything's a risk. And it's crazy how it does change you.

34:29You just become so protective because you just love these little humans so much. You just, you can't bear the thought of anything bad or anything going wrong. And I think maybe because I've been through what I've been through. Yeah. I'm scared of losing them. Yeah. Again, because I've nearly lost them so many times. And actually I had this conversation with Sophie because it was at the park actually, because I was being too much. Did she tell you off? She did. She did. And she had to, because she said, Leanne, they're just toddlers. They need to fall over. They need to learn to look after themselves.

35:00I'm like, I am struggling to let go. Yeah. I'm struggling. I don't want them to fall over and hurt themselves. I don't want them to learn that. I just want them to... I want to wrap them up in bubble wrap. Do you feel like your army background has informed your mothering skills in any way, shape or form? Maybe. I feel quite militant sometimes. Do you? Yes. They don't listen. But that's the approach that I'm taking and it doesn't work. No, I mean, it doesn't work for me either. Okay. I mean, I try. We actually said the other day, me and Sophie, like, we have no authority over these kids. No. They rule the house.

35:33I don't think you're going to get some at any point. I try and tell them off. They find it hilarious. I'm like, how do people do this? Same. I laugh in my face. I give them my sternness and they laugh. They find it hilarious. The naughty step is like a treat. Like, what am I doing wrong here? I am at the point where this is my favourite time, but it is the most testing. Yeah. It's really difficult. I feel like as they get older, that, you know, they are able to be reasonable in some way. They are able to talk about it. Are you saying that to make me feel better? Yeah. But I mean, my 11 year old now is 11.

36:12You know, those hormones, they start coming in. And sometimes you're a bit like, what happened? You know, I had this conversation the other day with my friend, with Mina on the show. And she was like, we went out for dinner. And it was me and Soph, me and her husband and our kids. so there's Mina's daughter and my two boys it was chaos we couldn't have a conversation but actually Mina's daughter she's a year older than the boys and she's an only child she was sat there lovely and calm and the boys were running riot and she said to me Leanne actually in a year's time or so you can negotiate with them and actually it becomes a lot easier but I think the negotiation is just giving in yeah well the thing is I can remember as a kid like my mum said something and I did it yeah right but then in my mind I am a little bit like So obviously getting them out to school in the morning is that thing.

37:01Right, we're leaving. Oh, it's a whole mission. I have to understand that actually just because I'm ready doesn't mean that they're ready. And I have to give them some warning, some sort of countdown. Yeah. But one of my kids, I literally have to chant the things before sending him upstairs to brush his teeth and get his socks. I have to go, brush your teeth, brush, get your socks. And he comes down and then I just hear drumming. I'm like, what the fuck? Where does the drumming come from? Brush your teeth, grab your socks. How is drumming a part of that? You've got to take it all. You've got to go with it.

37:32I mean, yeah. You've got to do what you've got to do. The reason why we get up so early, just so we can actually get out on time. Oh, gosh. I am not on time for anything anymore. Aren't you? Nothing. But when they start school, all of a sudden you are just as scared of the headteacher as you would have been if it was your headteacher. Oh, I'm quite nervous for the school days, you know. Ah, they're fun. also is that guilt-free time of them being somewhere yeah I kind of have that now with nursery nursery days are quite nice they're also a bit longer than school so time's really limited when they go to school what do you mean?

38:07what do you mean? just drop them off oh I've got it all to come haven't I oh they're going to be chaos do you know I picked them up a few months ago and one of the nursery teachers said to me oh they're a lot aren't they? I was like yeah they really really are and do you know I noticed when I picked them up from nursery all these children are coming out lovely really nice and calm and peaceful the boys are coming out doing roly polies pretending to be frogs ribbiting all the way to me and I'm like it's only the boys it's only them they are chaos I mean it's great that they're spirited that's one way to put it yeah for sure Exactly, spirited.

38:50We're going to go home. I'm going to say to Sophie when she's rocking in a corner, I'm spirited. Don't, I've been there. I really have. With three boys, I have absolutely been there. What is life like now? Sophie had her cancer-free scan a little while ago. Yeah, she did. She got the all clear, actually, as the traitors were being aired. No way. So that was such a relief. I mean, that must have been such a surreal thing to be celebrating the win of that, having that out there, but knowing that actually you've been through something monumental and life-changing in itself between filming and it airing.

39:29Yeah, literally, like completely. And I think I went through so much personally, which I didn't share really straight away on social media. So it was hard, the change overnight online, and seeing myself and people stopping me in the street, whilst also dealing with a lot of personal things at home. That was really, really difficult. And I felt like we were quite alone doing that because I wasn't ready to share everything yet. I did share when she got the all clear. And actually that was the start of us really appreciating the feeling of maybe helping others. And I think that's when I started wanting to get involved with charities and just helping as many people as we could because it was just such a nice feeling.

40:13But also that cancer-free, that clear scan, that is a start of a whole new chapter. I always think it's that because people can go, whoa, we're past it. But actually, that's not the case. There's so much that comes after that that you have to go through. That process of kind of looking back and going, fuck. Completely. That really just happened. And I'm really glad you said that because a lot of people, and it's easy to do so because, you know, unless you've experienced it or a loved one has you don't understand what comes with it and really it was a new journey of healing of getting better of trying to love yourself again with the way you look yeah with no hair going on a whole hair growth journey which is what she's still on um there's so much to it you know her bones yeah she's in pain all the time with her bones because really it's chemo strips you everything you just have to start again and And yeah, I mean, it's been nearly a year, actually.

41:14It'll be a year in Jan that she's had the all clear, but really she still feels the effects daily. Yeah, completely. Hot flushes, still on the medication, injections. You know, it doesn't end when you ring the bell. No. Absolutely not. I think it's something that people don't talk about enough. Yes. And I wonder if that's just because it's a societal thing. It's kind of like, well, that's the end of that treatment. Yeah. And now we all just kind of. Yeah. Move on, move along. but it's not just because you've I don't mean to belittle ringing a bell because obviously that's a massive oh no yeah but just because you rang a bell doesn't mean it's all over yeah so true it's it's it marks the end of a part of it I think of of the of the really difficult draining treatment um and then it also marks the beginning of a new journey yeah for the same thing so yeah yeah and how are things at home really good really really good I mean I think this is just a special time of year it really really is um and we just love the kids have kept us going through everything and I mean everything if we didn't have the kids when Sophie was going through what she was going through I don't know how she says all the time like I don't know how we would have got through it really yeah completely because she was like I know I need to get better for them for the family, for all of us.

42:36And they don't realise what they've got us through. Like, they have no idea. And things are really, really good, really positive, touch wood. Hudson hasn't been in hospital for six weeks now. Six whole weeks. And the summer was great. He wasn't in that much then either. So, yeah, we're doing really well. But also, because of the traders now, like you said, you now have this platform to talk about a lot of different things. Yeah. what does that feel like to to almost become a role model to become that person who can open up those conversations like that must come with a lot of responsibility as well whether you're talking about breast cancer about premature babies you know all these different things yeah it's it's still bizarre and also i'm not an expert in any of it no but what you have is a personal experience yeah i think people can look to yeah and and seek hope from seek you know some sort of personal education from it.

43:32Yeah, completely. And I think that's what I find really bizarre because I think I'm just, I'm literally just a normal person that's been through some stuff and the thought that that does help some people and they're thanking me for it. Why are they thanking me for it? But it is really special. And sometimes I'll post something without even realising and then people are telling me how much they feel seen and, you know, validated. And yeah, it's just, it's really nice. yeah yeah if you could write a letter on being a mum who would it be to and what would you say maybe my younger self and I think I think I would say maybe motherhood is different for everybody and try not to get too caught up on what motherhood looks like on social media because I think we're all really guilty of only posting the best bits and the easy bits but really it can be incredibly tough but it's actually the best thing that you're ever going to go through so just enjoy every single minute I think that comparison as well it can kind of make your head spin when things are so different to that I always felt like weeks into having bath as my eldest I was a bit like I don't understand why aren't we all lying in crisp white sheets with big smiles and everyone's looking glorious and happy I don't understand and that was a massive wake up call into what parenthood actually is.

45:01There's a lot of unspoken bits, which are the really difficult bits, but you learn them and you overcome them, you adapt to them, and actually it's just the most rewarding thing that you'll ever do. Yeah. I mean, looking back over the last three years, looking back and kind of going, you always knew you wanted to be a mum. Yeah. And the way that it's all happened, how do you feel looking back at it all? I just can't believe what the last few years have brought for us. And I'm now finally in a place where everything feels really calm. Well, not calm with the twins, that's far from, but calm in life, shall I say.

45:36And I just love it every day. The boys actually make me belly laugh, and they're my best friends, and I just adore them so much. And I just think life right now is just, from where we've come from to where we are now, it's just, it's a different life, completely. Absolutely. It's so funny, I think, to look back at the different energies and stuff in the house before kids arrive. Yeah. We had so much time on our hands. Yeah, what did we do? What did we talk about? Because all we talk about now is the kids. Was we just silent all the time? Strange to think, though, isn't it? We actually did say this not long ago.

46:15What did we used to do with all of our free time? Probably sleep. Oh, how lovely. Yeah, yeah. Those were the days. We end the podcast with you completing three sentences. The first one is being a mum means? Being a mum means never feeling lonely again and constant unconditional love all the time. Since having children, I? Since having children, I am never on time for anything. Were you on time for anything before? I think, yeah, I mean, my timekeeping in the army. Come on. Yeah, absolutely. My timekeeping was spot on. You're like, 1900 hours, boy, come on. Literally. My timekeeper's gone out the window.

46:57Gone. Yeah, I was on time today, actually. You were early. This is really special, actually. You're really good for me. Sophie will be shocked. In lots of ways, they've brought you down. Yeah. Your standards are slipping because of the kids. Yeah, it's all their fault. Since having George and my standards have slipped. It's nothing to do with me. Not timekeeping correctly. Final sentence is, I'm happy when. I am happy when I am, of course, with my babies. And it's nearly bedtime for many reasons. That's a dangerous time of day. Dangerous time. But do you know what? For us, we've kind of got a really great routine going on.

47:33Nice. They go into bed at seven o 'clock every night. Nice. And the half an hour leading up to it is just the best time of the day because they're sleepy, they're so loving, full of cuddles. They just want to read a story set on our knee, whereas the whole day they just want to throw toys at us. So actually, it's a really, really gorgeous time of the day. And we're just so happy at that time. I love this. and just knowing that you're about to go the other side. Yeah. Then finally asleep and you get a little bit of your time. And then you can breathe again. I love looking back at that bedtime routine across the years and how much it's changed.

48:08I can remember having to hold hands for half an hour, trying to creep out of bedrooms, having to get into cots. Yeah. Now, especially with Buzz, who you just kind of say goodnight to, put on a little Harry Potter thing and you're out. Yeah. He can read to himself, he can do whatever. you know that's so easy. It is life changing I remember having to lay there and have them in my arms until they fell asleep and now I can put them in a wake and they just fall asleep themselves, it's incredible. It's pretty magical It is, it really makes a world of difference. Theanne thank you so much, I've loved this chat Thank you, me too.

48:39Thank you for being so open about you know some shitty times that you've been through but to see you now and we all know life does this, it's a wavy line, but you've definitely had quite the year thank you so much for having me on thank you