Lucy Watson on the realities of trying for a baby

0:01Coming up on Happy Mum, Happy Baby I just stopped believing in positive pregnancy tests. Really? Yeah, because I was just like, well, this doesn't mean anything. You know, how do I even know if this is going to last? I didn't allow myself to get attached. And maybe I'm slightly lying there, I don't know. Maybe I'm not allowing myself to get into the headspace of when I was going through it at the time. Maiden Chelsea was edited in a way to make as much of a dramatic show as possible. Sometimes you'd watch scenes and be like, I do not remember it going that way, but okay. I'm going to be completely candid here.

0:37In the lead up to being a mum, I feel like I've fully judged other mums on so many decisions. Well, let's talk about... So at the start, we talked about dummies. Yes. What was your stance on dummies before you had a baby? Yeah. My child will never have a dummy. Yeah, no. Two weeks in, I was like, where's the dummy?

1:02Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum, Happy Baby, the podcast. Today's guest appeared on our screens many moons ago as one of the OGs in Maiden Chelsea. She's already laughing at the thought of many moons ago. Since then, she has become an author with Feed Me Vegan. She started her own maternity brand with Renu and she's had a little bubba, a little boy. Today's guest is Lucy Watson. Hello. Hi. How are you? How are you? I'm good. I'm good. Does it feel weird that, you know, I always feel like I'm always going to have, I'm a celeb attached to me. You know, I know my brother's always going to have something.

1:38You know, there's always things that are attached to you, even though it's a different part of you. It's a different world to where you are now. Yeah, I quite like it, actually. Do you? Weirdly, I do, yeah, because it was like such a great time. I don't know if you like it, but it was such a great time. And like, it's such a huge part of my journey in life and got me to where I am today. and thank God, to be honest, because I was so lost before I did that. Really? Yeah, I was so lost. I didn't really know what I was going to do. So I feel like, yeah, I don't mind it. I guess it was so long ago, though, that's the only thing.

2:09I kind of need something a bit more, like, current that I can be associated with. Yeah, but you're doing all your, you know, all your sustainability. Yeah, we did do a show, actually, last year, Beyond Chelsea, which has been quite exciting to be a part of another TV show because I always wanted to do more TV. Was that the OGs coming back? Yeah, that was that, yeah. How was that? Yeah, that was really interesting. That was different. I imagine different vibes in terms of you're all older, wiser. You see the format for what it is and the show for what it is. In terms of drama and stuff, you're probably a little bit more aware, carry yourself differently.

2:46Definitely, yeah. I think I'm like hyper self-aware now, almost to a fault. So I didn't want to kind of bring that back onto TV because I feel like that's not the person that people necessarily associate me as. They associate me as like this free talker and like carefree with my thoughts and feelings, which I am at my core. But I think I'm a bit more like aware of how I present that now. And also because of the stuff that you do online, you're in charge of your edit, right? So you know what you're putting out there. You know your brand, yourself, how you present yourself. whereas when you are then back in someone else's edit and someone else is producing or creating situations.

3:31Yeah, and it was different this time around because it's not a constructed, well, it wasn't a constructed reality show. It was more of Fly on the Wall. So actually everything that came across was exactly as it was filmed anyway whereas I guess Made in Chelsea was edited in a way to make as much of a dramatic show as possible. sometimes you'd watch scenes and be like, I do not remember it going that way, but okay. Really? Yeah. Okay then. So this is how it's going to go. But I guess, yeah, this was totally different. And I mean, I don't know if I'm a celebrity like that or... Yeah, I was very aware of watching it afterwards to make sure that I knew what was put out.

4:14Yeah. Because, you know, you film for so long. Oh, yeah. But what's the actual story? What's actually been shown? Because I don't want to talk about something else that someone said that hasn't been shown. and then it's me sharing, you know, and things like that. That must be weird, not knowing what, you know, your journey, but you don't know what version of your journey has actually been shown. Yeah, absolutely. How is motherhood? How are you? Are you sleeping right now? Last night, I, well, my husband and I take it in turns. Okay. So at the moment, we are in temporary accommodation. We're in a two-bed flat with the whole gang.

4:48So my son, my two dogs, and my cat. Yeah. While we're doing a renovation on our, like, hopefully forever home. It's been a year nearly. And I don't think we ever imagined it would be this long. Is the end in sight? It's like eight weeks away, supposedly. But I'm still just like, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm just like, I can't see it happening. But I know it's close. But he's in our room still. He's 13 months. And there is no room for his crib in the other room. Because the other room's got a bed in it. And the other room's small. And we don't want to take the bed out. Because then it's going to be rented.

5:21and like all these things. So at the moment, we're taking it in turns who sleeps in the room with him and who gets a good night. We could technically both sleep in this fair room. But on principle. But it's too small a bed for my husband, basically, for both of us. Okay. Yeah, so it's a king-size bed, by the way. Okay. That's too small. Yeah, I know. I was going to say, I do think it gets to the same point. for me and Tom our feet might touch at the start of the night but then that's enough you know what I mean I want my own space I don't want to feel you move yeah and like he's like just no awareness like he just takes up the whole bed and I'm just I literally like lie asleep like this and I do not move and he and that's not enough you know that's too much for him so he needs super king yeah needs super king so it's not the one he's not sleeping it's just a fact Willoughby actually isn't that great sleeper he's got a dummy still okay so we're like there's so many things that like we want to change that we're kind of putting off until we get into the house because I'm like, is this going to help him with the transition into the new house?

6:27Like I don't want to take that comfort thing for him right now because I think when he's in the new house, it'll be a lot of change happening all at once. I don't have a problem with kids having dummies. My husband had a dummy until he was four. Oh, wow! So like, which I found out recently and I'm like, well, you say you should take it away, but your journey was a little different. And how are his teeth? his teeth are all lovely they're fine and he can talk so it's all fine his teeth aren't necessarily his teeth but they're lovely it's all talk yeah exactly but yeah so there's just the dummy is a problem so is he losing it in the night is that why and then I can remember especially with a third just like having an army of dummies around so that he could just reach out and drown I want to do that but I'm like is that going to be uncomfy if he because he thrashes around I don't think so they're only little dummies I think it's fine.

7:18Just scatter them around. And also, I will say that I, with all three of mine, I really worried about taking them away. Yeah. I really worried, really catastrophised that moment, thought it was going to be awful. And actually, it was fine. Really? How long did it last? A day. Really? Yeah. How did they get to sleep without it? Because that's his sleep signal. Well, so, yeah, exactly the same. So mine would, in my perfect world of my head, mine would only ever have their dummies when they went to sleep. but then you know they get poorly and whatever else yeah yeah and I think especially with my middle one I can remember he had had a spell where he'd been poorly and he had literally he had a dummy in his mouth and had another dummy in his hand it reminded me of like an old Tom and Jerry sketch where it's actually cigarettes but there's that the cat ends up with all the cigarettes in his mouth and it's just really wide and I felt like that was going to be the case with dummies just like a mouth full of dummies and it kind of freaked me out a little bit and I thought well this is the time and he had been a little bit poorly but it was sort of getting better and I just started taking it away earlier in the night um and then just sort of went for it and just kind of like yeah people say just like make a hole in it and then it's like it's less desirable yeah so i think we'd probably try that but like i said this this whole house thing is going to be such a big change yeah people have kind of scared me about that because they're like you know that it really unsettles the kids like when they're young when they move house it's really unsettling for them so i'm i think i'm a little bit like just pre-empting this as being quite a going to be quite a stressful time so I'm just I don't want anything anything that can help him get through it you know and and you might find that it's not stressful at all like you said you're going to be somewhere green it's going to be you know there's it's going to be very different to where you are now and he's been there for all our site visits and everything like every time we go he sees it so like I don't think it's going to be a strange environment in that sense yeah you've been there so many times anyway but it's obviously a building site so I would say don't let what other people say freak you out yeah just kind of deal with it in the moment and see what it's like when you actually get there because we can build these things up to be like I said about the dummy every time I built it up to be a massive thing yeah it's just gone yeah uh where did you grow up am I right in thinking that you grew up on a farm yes I did yeah a farm in Surrey a working farm what kind of farm animals right yeah so like pigs cows lambs the whole shebang wow um I loved animals so I was six I think when I moved there and then I think just my love for animals grew so much being there but then I think just seeing like the processes as a child it was I'm I stopped eating animals quite soon really yeah well because I guess it's that thing it makes total sense that you fall in love with an animal and then you understand what's going on with the animal yeah and because I wasn't raised on a farm I had those six years of like forming relationships with animals and loving them and then going to a farm at that age I think sort of putting two and two together because it was happening right in front of me and then just being so emotionally like scarred from it and just thinking I was very like headstrong as well as a child still am and I was just like no not gonna eat them and did the rest of the family follow suit or did they just let you get on with it no so my they let me get on with it and I think they appreciated the compassionate side of it and that they could like they liked that about me as a child and supported that but I think my dad doesn't have that emotional connection with animals my mom did become vegetarian really yeah and my sister yeah oh wow yeah I mean that's amazing yeah because my mom my mom you know listening to the lambs and stuff like the mothers are left behind like listening to that we're in the house so we can hear them crying all night and that keeps you up at night when they're crying for their babies and I think for her she just she couldn't she couldn't do it either she's like I can't but that's you know deep chat very deep yeah but the other side of it is growing up on a farm in the countryside and being surrounded by green beautiful yeah what was your childhood like so moving to the farm was lovely I was outdoors all the time which is what I want for Willoughby as well I want him to be outdoors I just remember just like running around all the time like in wellies and just like being on hay bales and like just rolling around in long grass and just like adventures you know just constant adventures and I think you know not necessarily in London it's a bit trickier to live that kind of lifestyle I don't know my parents so they got divorced when I was nine so that's quite a big memory for me of my childhood because then my life's changed drastically yeah were you still living in Surrey or were you split?

11:55So my mum moved close by to my dad initially. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it was easier for both of them. And I'd spend most of my time with my mum and then every other weekend with my dad and every Thursday with my dad. So yeah, that's quite a big memory for me from childhood, but there's a lot of happy memories too. There are some overwhelmingly bad memories with the divorce, but there are mainly happy memories. It's hard, I think, when you go through something like that as a kid because I think it's something that you understand more as you get older, but you also feel for that child. Yeah, definitely.

12:30In a way, it has its pros for me being in that kind of environment from a young age because now I'm hyper-aware when my husband and I are bickering or anything. I'm like, I know where this is going to go if I don't nip it in the bud or if we don't work on this. We are hyper-aware of our issues in a way. I mean, I am. he probably is like okay just chill um I'm like you know if I feel like we're in a rut I'm just quite proactive and like to um make sure that we just communicate yeah yeah yeah and take a second yeah you know so it's giving me tools in that sense yeah absolutely and you have one sister you grew up with one sister and two half brothers yeah yeah my sister Tiffany was also me and Chelsea.

13:19And she's got a boy who's eight months older than mine. Oh, so you're both your boys. Yeah, it's so lovely. That's lovely. That's really lovely. When you were younger, did you know that you wanted to have a family when you're older? I think when I was younger, I didn't know what I knew in a way, because I think the society is so set of when you grow up, you will be a mum and you will have children. So I just was like, when I grow up, I'm going to be a mum and have children. So I don't think I ever really thought about what I wanted. I just thought that was what was going to happen. And I think I battled with wanting to have a career and be a mum and thinking, are the two possible?

14:02So there were times in the early days of our relationship where I was a bit like, oh, I don't know if I want kids, actually, because I have all these ambitions and things and like, I don't know if it's going to be possible. And, you know, you can't miss what you don't have kind of thing. but then when we got married I was just like so in love with my husband I was like I actually just want more of this yeah bigger family that's that's kind of how I see it more members of us together you know yeah a bigger family do you remember you and James talking about it when you first got together in terms of like what that looked like and especially if you were like I don't know oh yeah he says now he's like I was like I'm not sure about you because you were literally like you know saying all these things about how you weren't sure about whether you wanted kids and I was like so sure that I wanted kids so you know he's always wanted to be a dad whereas I had so many other things I wanted to be so I was just quite torn but I've realized that the two are very possible and actually like you know thank god I decided to have kids because my son is like my world now so yeah very cute yeah can you remember when you first started what when you first thought now's probably the time to to actually start trying yes because that's a big old shift yes I before we got married I think we were sort of just like being quite like we weren't using protection yeah carefree we weren't using protection and we were just kind of like if it happens it happens you know we'd been together for six years then so it felt like we'd done everything and anything that we could want to do together without having that responsibility because I think people also really instill that into you that it's like you must do what you want to do now and make sure you do it and I totally get that now because I'm like okay yeah because as soon as you have a child your life becomes devoted to your child.

16:00So, yeah, we started being carefree before we got married. And were you surprised by how long it took? Yes. Because it wasn't a straightforward... Oh, I thought it was going to happen first month. I remember the first time having unprotected sex and being like, okay, I'm pregnant, so... Because it's the way... What are we going to call the baby? We've been brought up though, right? Yeah. And like any time anything happens where you might have, you know, not been practicing same sex, you suddenly go, oh my God. Everyone puts that fear in you that it's like, if you don't use protection, you're going to get pregnant.

16:35And all the way through school and everything. And maybe it is the case for when you're younger and more fertile. And it probably is like it happens a lot more quickly anyway. But we were definitely surprised at how long it took. And it was only when I sort of did my researching on Google and really delved deep because I'm the kind of person that when I take something on, I kind of hyper fixate. And it's not just I'll dip in. I will just want to learn anything and everything about this topic. So I want to learn everything about fertility and everything to do with it. So when I found out it was took, I think it's like on average, it takes a couple a year to get pregnant.

17:14and then I think the remainder of that percent of people that got pregnant within the year will normally get pregnant within two years. And there was me thinking, you know, two or three months it will happen. And I mean, I don't know what your journey was like, but when you're trying, every month it feels like a year. Absolutely. Yeah, so I came off my pill and then I basically didn't have periods for a year. Really? And I knew that I had PCOS anyway. so I ended up going on metformin on Clomid then I had a miscarriage and then I had a whole period of time where I felt like I needed to get some sort of peace with my body because I felt so angry and just the grief of a miscarriage is is so tough to to navigate before sort of kind of going nowhere ready to go again so it's all it's all everyone's journey into it is is different it is and that's another thing that I don't think you realize going into it is that you never know what your journey is going to be yeah um and you can have friends around you who got pregnant first try or whatever and then you might have friends around you that are going through fertility issues and yeah just you never know what did it open up conversations between you and your friends that you hadn't had before um no because my friends and I are very open anyway with everything and I was probably one of the last ones to start trying so a lot of my friends had already had their first or even their second I'd say you know what 50 % of my friends had it really easy really yeah and then 50 % really struggled so I did I did sort of think oh you never go into something thinking negatively and thinking this could be really hard for me yeah but I did go into open minded and knowing that it could be it could go anyway and that's why I think I was very proactive with testing and you know getting everything checked and everything like that as soon as I think it'd been like maybe four or five six months of trying yeah that I was like okay I just want to check everything's okay because if it's not this could be years you know we need to be proactive here and that's probably due to being around my friends and their experiences yeah yeah so what was it like going through you know all those tests and hearing how things were going did it give you hope did it you know invasive comes to mind yeah um especially for the women yeah yeah it wasn't enjoyable yeah expensive just not not a fun time in life not a fun time and I think it was like every appointment I go into there'd be something negative being told to me about me.

19:56Really? Yeah, and it was a very anxiety-inducing time. A lot of tears, a lot of, I guess, feeling sorry for myself and thinking, oh my God, why me? But like, in retrospect, I actually had a really good journey. But you don't know what your journey's going to be like when you're in it. You don't. And also, you can't compare your story to someone else's because it's all relative to you. You're experiencing it. It's your heartache, your disappointment, your anger, whatever it is that you're feeling at certain points. Do you have to be allowed to feel them? Oh, 100%. And I was in my feels a lot of the time.

20:33And looking back, if me had known that I was going to be pregnant at whatever time I was pregnant with my child and everything was going to go okay and everything like that, I wish I could have told me and said, just don't worry, it's going to be fine. But the not knowing is one of the hardest parts of going through fertility issues is not only how long is this going to take, but will it ever happen for me? Because you do obviously read about so many people who are less fortunate and who don't ever have kids or have really terrible journeys. So, yeah, it's that fear of the unknown that makes it really difficult.

21:12Absolutely. how did you mentally get yourself through those that through that time um i had every day i did my gratitude really which i used to literally rinse people for doing i'm but when it works i'd see it on social media and people doing that i'm so grateful for this and i'll be like oh my god um and every morning i think i probably drove james my husband crazy because i'm like we're so lucky that we have a roof over our head and we're so lucky that our dogs are so well behaved and like all these things that I would just every day be like aren't we so lucky for this and it just really got me through because there was still so much to be grateful for in life and I had to focus on the positives of my life and I'm lucky as well that my husband was just always he never faltered he was it's gonna happen I'm not even worried really every single day I'm not even what what are you crying about?

22:10What are you worried about? It's going to happen. It's going to happen. And I'm like, but what if it doesn't? What if it doesn't? Yeah, he was like my rock. He is just like my rock anyway in life, but he was my rock during that. I love that. And I'm sure in his mind he had the same worries, but he just did not let it show. Yeah. Ever. So what did your facility journey look like? So testing, I think, is just like the standard thing. I did every single test that you can think of. I just tried everything, really. I don't really talk about it in too much detail because it's not just my journey. It's also my partner's journey and that's just something that we agreed.

22:50I think every sort of fertility treatment or test that you can really think of, I did it, basically. Did that help make you feel proactive in it as well? I was... You were taking some sort of control. I was, yeah, I was definitely obsessive and I saw probably four specialists across a number of years and, you know, if something wasn't working for me with someone and I felt like they tried this and that and it wasn't working, I would just move on. And I actually encourage other people to do the same because every doctor has different advice. That's the really confusing thing that I found and that I think is a real flaw in the system because, you know, what is the case then?

23:31How do we know what's true and what's the legit science of it? Because every doctor will tell you, you know, this doctor will tell me, actually, this is really bad about your body. And this is going to make it really difficult and you're going to struggle. And then the next doctor would say, actually, that's not a thing. And I don't agree. And that's not the issue. This is the issue. You know, it would just, it's just so inconsistent. Really confusing. Yeah. Really confusing. A lot of the research that I did was my own. Really? Just scouring the internet, reading forums, reading other women's experiences, watching YouTube videos.

24:06Was there a comfort in that? No, that was hell. It's funny though, isn't it, that we put ourselves in positions where actually it's maybe not feeding us in a way that's healthy, but actually there's that desire, that almost desperation to kind of have that information. It was like a control thing. I fully know that about myself, that it was a control thing. And I sometimes do think if I hadn't been so obsessive with everything that I was doing and so proactive, would it have taken longer, more time? Or, you know, I don't know. Or was my obsessiveness and my obsessive behavior actually making it take long?

24:49Hindering it. Yeah. I don't know. You just never know. I don't know. But the flip side of that, if anything was different, then Willoughby wouldn't be Willoughby. You know what I mean? exactly it'd be someone else yeah exactly um but i do feel for women who are going through fertility issues because there is so much information out there and a lot of it is conflicting and i think there's a lot of misinformation out there as well and i think for women it can be very overwhelming yeah and confusing and who do you listen to i guess also it's expensive yeah you know if you'll have to if you're having to wait for the nhs you have to have been trying i think for at least a year or two to have fertility treatment and then you know we know we know what the nhs is like you know there's so many delays with everything and it's not necessarily prioritized so then you're you're kind of putting your fate in their hands and waiting for your appointments to come up and that could add years on as well because of how slow it could be.

25:56So I was very fortunate that I could put money into it. Yeah, especially as women, you know, and we're told that our bodies as we get older or whatever, you know, it just kind of like, it feels like a ticking bomb that's kind of like slipping further away. Yeah, but it didn't for me. I don't know why, but I think I was more, the kind of information that I was reading or absorbing was more so, you have so much time. Really? Yes. Great. Yeah. And I don't know if that's changed in the last few years, but I think I was like, I think what I thought was do your career, do your thing, do this. You've got time.

26:35You've got time. So I was like, oh, I have got time. I'm just going to, you know, just really tell about this. And it was only when I started speaking to doctors and them saying, actually, these are the percentage. these are the scientific stats you know at this age your fertility is at this and then goes down down down down and your eggs are dropping and it was like oh okay. Was there a lot of heartache along the way with your fertility journey? Yes um it was a I've a constant just years of crying and just like not really knowing how to feel I don't know it's it was just a really difficult time a really difficult time but it's really hard to say that now because it now that I've got Willoughby I kind of this sounds weird but like I've kind of non-voided that like I'm It doesn't sound weird.

27:33I totally relate. That just is whatever, you know, whatever. That was just what it took to get to there. And now I've got him. I don't really even allow myself to think about it in too much detail, but I definitely don't get upset by anything. Really? Yeah, because I just feel so lucky. Setter where you are now. And so fortunate to have Willoughby. And that was my journey.

28:07There's certainly a thing that when you are trying and it can feel like other people around you are sort of, they're having their baby, they're getting pregnant easily, they're having their babies and everything sort of, life is moving forward for them. Whereas you are sort of stagnant where you are because you're wanting to move forward, but nothing's happening. Yeah. And I think one of my friends, she actually had two kids. Really? Yeah, in the time that I was all got pregnant. I can't remember. She had a baby and then she got pregnant again. And I think the second time she told me, I was like, oh, my God.

28:41This is. This is. And she was so sweet. She texted me. And I actually think that was the best way to communicate with someone who's going through fertility issues is to just text someone because they can deal with their own emotions privately without having someone in their face. Kind of being like, and I'm pregnant. you know and you have to be like or even on the phone on a phone call where you kind of have to at least with a text you can you can process you don't have to have that face on do not even mean to kind of go yay you can let it hit you let it hit you deal with your own feelings and your own emotions and your own kind of sadness over not being pregnant too and then be like so happy because obviously you're so happy for your friends you're just you're in your feels about your own journey and you're just like oh why is it not happening for me I learned from that that that is like the best way yeah in my opinion to to tackle it did you have any losses along the way yes but I I don't really I don't know I don't know I feel like sometimes well no I would have I I some of them I wouldn't have known about if I hadn't been testing so so so like um vigorously vigorously I maybe wouldn't have even realized you would have just thought it was slightly late period yeah exactly there was one where I was like I don't even know if I even let myself get attached because I was just like I I don't know I just didn't really believe it

30:21anything that I it's so hard to talk about because it's not just my experience But I know that I did lose pregnancies, but I don't think about them as losses. Is that weird? No, that's how you... I didn't have any scans or I only had positive pregnancy tests. I never had any early scans or anything like that. I never physically saw a baby. But you have had that hope. Oh, yeah. And that those pregnancy tests come with so much. and for them not to be there anymore. You have experienced that. Yeah. So whether you see them as babies or losses or whatever, that is something that you've had that rise and fall.

31:05Yeah. I had those positive pregnancy tests that then, you know, would disappear. Yeah. And I think they're called chemical pregnancies, anything pre-six weeks. And that was kind of one of my things that I was like, why is this happening? Um, and I guess I just stopped believing in positive pregnancy tests. Really? Yeah. Cause I was just like, well, this doesn't mean anything. You know, how do I even know if this is going to last? I, I, I, I didn't get attached to those, those positive pregnancy tests because until I've seen a physical baby on a scan, I won't believe it's real. So I didn't allow myself to get, to get attached.

31:52And maybe, maybe I'm slightly lying there. I don't know, like maybe I'm not allowing myself to get into the headspace of when I was going through it at the time. Yeah. But it was a very confusing time for me. That's okay. I think we all put protective things in place, whether that's in hindsight or in the moment. Yeah. You know, and I think that's absolutely okay to deal with it. However, we see fit to deal with things for ourselves. You know, some people talk about it, some people don't. and, you know, I don't think there's any right way of doing it. Yeah. It's absolutely fine. With that in mind, though, getting pregnant with Willoughby, at what point did you still not believe that pregnancy test?

32:37Did you still not kind of allow yourself to go there? Didn't believe it. My husband was like, don't even talk about it. Really? Yeah, he was like, don't even, you don't know what's going to happen, so just shut up, basically. but I kept testing every single day after I got the positive pregnancy test and every day it was getting stronger and I was like well it's getting stronger so it's looking good and he was and he just like nope nope we're not talking about it just you don't know what's gonna happen and I just feel like well okay and I just knew in my gut that it was good I knew it felt right and did your body feel different this time around um I actually had bleeding oh really yeah I did I had bleeding and worrying yeah and I think I think I was like five and a half weeks and I was like wow it's happening again you know this is it's disappearing what happened I'm just trying I remember now I had bleeding and pain and I remember thinking this is all over but I kept testing it was still getting stronger so I was really confused and I went and got a really early scan I think I was like six weeks yeah and I said you know this is what's happening and they were like look it's not looking good kind of thing and if we're being honest you're probably not even gonna be able to see if there is a baby you'll probably not be able to see anything this early and we had the scan and there was a baby with a heartbeat.

34:12No way. At six weeks. I was always, if I had a scan at six weeks, I was always told to go away for another two weeks. There was a heartbeat, a strong heartbeat. Whoa. How did that feel? I was in shock. I was in shock. I was like, oh my God, this is not real. This is not real. And the doctor told me I had a hematoma. Right. which is really common, and it was growing next to the baby. And I sort of said, okay, well, I don't know what that means, you know, and they gave me some medication for it. Basically, the hematoma gets absorbed into your body. It's like a blood clot. It gets absorbed into your body over time.

34:53But I remember lying there and saying to him, you know, should I be worried about this hematoma doctor? He was like, yeah, you should. I was like, oh, okay. um great amazing follow that up with anything no he just said you should be worried you know I was like what so how did you feel when you left because then that's such an up and down thing I was anxiety ridden anxiety ridden and I again didn't let myself get too attached because I was like well you know got the hematomas nothing's ever smooth did you research hematomas I did. And there was a lot of negative, obviously you focus on the negative stuff.

35:33There were a few people that had them and they said, you know, everything was fine. So I just kept taking the medication and kept getting scans. And it got to a point, I think maybe eight weeks when the baby was bigger than the hematoma and it was fine. You know, it was not nothing to worry about, but they can cause miscarriages. Right. So, um, yeah, it was a worrying time and just something again, I didn't know about who knew, who knew about that. Um, And as soon as I knew after the eight-week scan that the hematoma was not a problem, I was like, I'm fine. This is going to be fine. Really? Yeah.

36:05It was more my husband that was worried, actually. It's weird, isn't it? Yeah. Because we were yin and yang in the lead up. And then when I was pregnant, I was more like, it's fine. It's going to be fine. And what was your pregnancy like? I had bad morning sickness for the first three months. And, you know, I couldn't really eat anything. But I took medication for it, anti-sickness. I didn't want to take too much medication. this was the thing I was just like I don't want to keep taking things but I took some medication just so I could eat you know it was it was testing did you have bad no I had a bit of nausea but that was it yeah it was not fun but the second trimester was amazing I was I loved it yeah I loved it I was like walking around with my tiny little bump and just thinking like having it stuck out probably just looking like I was bloated like 16 weeks pregnant and um just absolutely just all in my feels so happy.

36:56I'm right in thinking your sister had given birth only a few days before you found out you were pregnant. Yes, she had, yeah. So that was amazing and I remember telling her and she just fell to the ground. Really? How did you feel heading towards the birth? Was birth something that you'd ever thought about? Had you had any plan in your mind? So birth, I was terrified of birth. I was really terrified. I just wanted to just teleport the baby out of me and just not. I mean, I'm surprised someone worked out how to do that. Well, yeah, exactly. They should really work on that, actually. Yeah, no, I just didn't want to do it.

37:37I was so, so scared. But then it got to the point, I'm sure you've experienced this too, in your third trimester where you're just like, get out of me. Get out of me now. And they're just, they can't fit in there anymore. There is no room. There is no room. they're just hitting you everywhere and kicking and they're just always there. And you're just like, you don't want to be in there. I don't want you to be in there. You need to get out. So I was just really open-minded about my birth. I was just like, whatever's going to be the safest route for us, let's do it. I put all my trust into my doctor.

38:08I chose a female doctor. I don't know why that made me feel better about things, but I just thought, like, you've had babies, so hopefully you're going to, like, understand this a bit better. and I'm sure it's the same across the board but I just thought you've actually gone through it so I just said to her I don't care what we do if you think a c-section is best we'll do a c-section if you think a vaginal birth is going to be the best way let's do it but I just really really don't want to be in an emergency situation where I'm having to we're rushing through the doors into A &E which is of course how it ended up because classic I can't fault my birth in the sense of how it was handled it was handled so professionally and the team around me was so like uplifting and they played like nice music and they were all smiling at me and it's all going to be okay and I was just there like what the fuck is going on like is he going to die, am I going to die like what's going to happen and it is terrifying and it could have gone one or two ways really because Willoughby had your cord around his neck and his head See, I thought that was an instant kind of...

39:16Emergency. Emergency, yeah. But it wasn't the case. Well, it was weird. He had the cord around his neck for the last three months of my pregnancy. And was no one ever bothered about that? No. And I was so concerned by it, because every scan I could just see it there. And I was like, is this, you know, is this okay? Is this normal? You know, he's just like being strangled in there. And they were just like, it's fine. It's so normal. Like a huge amount of babies will come out with the cord around their neck. And it's just, that's just the way it is. It's good for us to be in the know, but... Because you would assume that when you're then trying to give birth...

39:50It's harder for them to get out. Yeah. Well, this is what happened. So when I think I had a scan like a few weeks or maybe, no, it was like a day before I went into the hospital, the cord was around his neck, but also around his head. Which I guess the thing with that is it then makes the cord shorter. Yes. Right? So it's not even the fact that it's around, it's wrapped around again. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and actually it turns out that when he was born, it was also around his shoulders, which we didn't see on the scan. So that was another reason. Yeah, yeah. He was also back-to-back. Right. And he was showing as large, but we didn't know.

40:22Actually, I had a huge amount of amniotic fluid, so he was very normal size. But when it came to the birth, they said it's 50-50. You have to make the decision. We don't know if a vaginal birth is going to... It's 50-50 as to whether he will be able to come out vaginally or not. So you've got to decide. and I just wanted it was my first birth I just wanted to give it a go um with a vaginal birth and I just I don't know like I don't I should that's also a big thing to take on the decision for when you're like this is my first time I don't know I don't know what this is yeah I don't I'm not in this situation ever this is the first time yeah whereas you see birth every day yeah and you have knowledge that I simply don't have like I can say my body can do it and I can feel you know but the actual when there's something else in play yeah you just you just want that advice I'm trying to remember if she said to me if I were you I would just do a c-section I can't remember what she said but I think I was like when I picture birth it isn't a c-section it isn't like that so I would selfishly I mean I don't even know if that was selfish but I was just kind of like i want to do it the natural way and vaginally you know i just want to do the way that your body's supposed to do it if i can if i can do it i'll give a go and she knows the situation going into it if worst case you know i remember saying to my husband i'm going to do this and it's going to end up in emergency c-section isn't it i just know it is and he was like yeah probably it was you know the back-to-back thing made it a lot harder because it was super painful and he just wasn't in the right position yeah i think that you that they thought that he would turn we tried to turn him for like the first 10 hours of my labor i think we just kept trying to turn him which you would think would be also so difficult because they're already tangled tangled and engaged by that point he's in a web of cord yeah literally and i remember thinking well maybe he wants to turn maybe he can't you know maybe he's actually just really tangled up in there it's just like it's all just so weird isn't it they're just in you and like just rolling around yeah they're just inside there just like wrapped up in your cord and god knows like if I had been in the wild as a cave woman and like what would have happened there you know if there hadn't been able to be this intervention how would it have ended like would I have just been able to give birth I don't know it's so crazy to think but I guess that's why like birth rate and success has gone up as modern technology has come into play but did you try for a vaginal birth for quite a while yeah so i went in at six i was already contracting then they induced me to like ramp it up yeah gave me this drip and then like broke my waters which was hell you ever had that happen that was the worst part that was honestly horrendous is it really intense i was also gushing water for about a day it just kept coming I was like when is it gonna end like it's just a never-ending amount of water but when is it ever gonna stop and then I had the epidural sort of like I don't know how many hours I've been in in labor for but it was real painful I was like I cannot do this any longer um I think it's like 18 hours or something because I I ended up going giving birth at 2 or 3 a.m.

43:48So yeah, I just got rushed through to the C-section. And have you ever had a C-section? No. No, it's not fun. It's not fun. And also the emergency aspect of it. Scary. I feel like, yeah. Just a weird feeling. And I don't know what a birth, a vaginal birth feels like. I don't even know if I would have been able to feel it because I was technically had an epidural. But I don't, I'll never know what that's like. But just the feeling of someone like digging around inside of you is like... Moving bits aside so they can get to... I read somewhere that they take your organs out of your body. I've heard this too, but I cannot...

44:23I don't know if this is true or not. That's not true. Is it not? Apparently it's not true. Do they just shove them to one side? And also, aren't your organs further up? Hasn't everyone... everything been squished up? I don't know. I read that they take everything out so they can get the baby out, and then they put it all back in, and they just kind of like, sew you up, and off you go. I don't know if I'm like this. I'd always say, surely everything is attached to something else. so it can't go very far. Yeah, you can't just, like, take them out. Yeah, no, I remember thinking, God, like, what if it's all just messed up in there now?

44:51Like, well, everything's in the wrong place. But I don't think that's true. I think that was very much misinformation that I read. Good. But I had a good few weeks of believing that that was the case. Afterwards? Yes. And also because once, you know, once the baby's out, everything does feel very, very different. Horrible. Yeah, like, the pain and just, like, the recovery of everything and just like everything's different. Like even going to the loo is different and you just think, oh, well, that's not in the right place anymore. No.

45:22So yeah, all in all, I was, it ended up okay. It was, you know, he's okay, I'm okay. Well, I guess it's that thing, right? So an emergency C-section was a thing that you feared. It was. You ended up having one. Yes. Was it as scary as what you had thought it would be? Or all the negatives that you had thought about it? Was it as scary as I thought it would be? Scarier. Really? Yes. Yes, it was. Is it the unknown? Because we talked about control earlier. I think it was like when his heart rate was going so high and all the alarms go off in your room and then everyone's rushing in and out and you're just sitting there and you're like, what's happening?

46:05What's going on? Is he okay? Is he going to be okay? And then they're like, we have to get him out. And you're like, well, okay. and you just think and weirdly I also think they're now under pressure what if they make a mistake they're just humans at the end of the day I know this is their job and this is what they're skilled at doing but what if they mess up I don't know the smallest mistake could affect everything so yeah there's that and it was actually they do this every day every single day like multiple times a day and it's just normal now oh, it is normal, C-sections are normal, and they're not enjoyable, but gave me my baby, so.

46:47Did they do the whole baby over the curtain thing? They did, and, like, his head was, like, three times the size of what it should be. Oh, because of the cord? Yeah, because it was so swollen, so he looked like Megamind coming over. And I was like... And obviously I was so happy to see him, but I was like, oh, my God, his head. You know? Did they pre-warn you that his head might be swollen? They said that there was a mass of swelling because he was trying to get out and they could see it and he couldn't fit through. So they said there was swelling but it went down so quickly honestly, like within 13 minutes it was gone.

47:27It wasn't the most romantic experience because he had to have all these checks done and everything for like half an hour so I didn't get to hold him straight away which I really regret and I wish there was a way that I could have held him and been the first person to like yeah you know I really I really wish that could have been the case but as soon as I held him he stopped crying and we were just we are connected forever the little boy so were you still in theatre when you did get to hold him yes they had to stitch me up which takes half an hour oh wow yeah because they've got it's all the different layers because they're putting everything back in I know where's the heart go literally anyone got a lump take it off the side and put it back in that's actually what I thought so yeah yeah it was amazing did you feel like there was an instant bond yeah I did and I was really worried about that because again I think a lot of people do talk about that really openly how it's not always there and you don't always have that bond and I just remember saying to James a lot like you know I might not have the bond I might not love him I might not I might not feel close and James was like, you're going to be obsessed with him, Lucy.

48:39Like, you're just going to be obsessed. He's like, but what if I'm not? And it was a fear. You know, when people talk about their stories, I don't just poo-poo their stories and think, oh, that won't be the case for me. Like, I always take on board what everyone says and think that could happen to me, you know? And no, it was instant. I loved him straight away. How was the rest of your time in hospital? It was hard. It was really hard because I got, like, a stomach ulcer issue from the medication so I had to stay there for five days I try and put a silver lining on that whole experience of being in the hospital for longer and just say I got so much help from all the nurses and the midwives they taught me so much when I was there because wow there's a lot to learn and when you've got a child look after and I just I didn't have a clue with a lot of it so having their expertise and their help hands-on like 24 hours a day five days was well how was your recovery mentally and physically um mentally i think everyone goes through that hormone drop and that is a shock yep to the system especially you know you've been practicing gratitude you're feeling like you're lucky you know how grateful you should be and all of a sudden you can't stop crying yeah you just can't stop crying and it's like even when you're crying you know that what you're not crying about anything you know that you're just crying and i just was like i'm just gonna let it happen and just feel the feels get through it but i was worried i was like is this going to end at some point?

50:03Am I going to stop feeling, you know, low about everything? And just, is it going to pick up? Because you do worry about, of course, postpartum depression. So many women experience it. And I think after like the first two or three weeks, things started getting normal, like balancing out a little bit. Hormones are crazy. How do we do it? I know. I honestly don't know how we do it. It's a continuous thing for women. It's bonkers. It's, we should get something in life. I don't know what but like some kind of like I don't know some salary or something just being a woman so yeah it is wild a wild ride but my recovery was you know James was like my nurse basically and I just I think I got bored of sitting in bed I was like I want to get out and about and I think I pushed myself too quickly and wanted to go for walks and you know do some cooking and do some whatever and then I was like okay now I need to just chill Would you try and push yourself too far then and then be wiped out for a little while?

51:03Yeah, and in pain, in a lot of pain. Because I was too scared to take painkillers because I didn't want to aggravate my stomach, so I wasn't taking anything. So I was like, you know, I had this huge wound and I was just trying to struggle through and really I just needed to chill. And I think if I have a baby again, that's what I will do. Well, I might be able to actually. Sure, I've got a baby already. It's very true. It's not for a baby. It's very different. Very different, Lucy. When you've got a toddler. you can't just chill in another life just you know have snuggle days put a movie on one thing you've talked about is your identity as a mum and that feeling of sort of almost losing a part of yourself talk to me about that and at what point did you realise that that was how you were feeling I think after you give birth you look in the mirror and you're like whoa who is this she is a shell a shell of a woman you know you're strong and you're powerful and you feel like there's amazing achievement life it's amazing yeah and you're like oh my god my child is here because of me and you know I've done this and I grew him and I did go through an identity crisis because I was like you have a baby and you can't your life completely changes you now dedicate pretty much all of your life to your child and of course now I have that balance but I think for the first eight weeks I was all in I was exclusively breastfeeding um I was just like there for my child and just not really sleeping and all the things that everyone does um so but when I got to sort of eight weeks I started pumping and that changed my life because Because my husband could then feed my baby or our baby.

52:51And not only my husband, you know, my mom or his mom or whatever. And that made, and it's just, it's just like kind of just taking the steps, isn't it? But you are different. And I don't think you'll ever be the same. I think that the fact that you will never be the same again is only ever a positive. Yeah. You grow. Yeah, you can't go through those monumental moments in life and stay the same. what was your journey with your body like because you touched on there about how that first looking in the mirror and kind of going oh gosh, what is this? At what point did you kind of start did you start embracing your body and your new body or feeling more like yourself again?

53:32Because I think that whole snap back thing that whole kind of looking at people on Instagram thing is so unhelpful because we don't know what happens behind the picture or how much that person might be crying before they took that picture or after it Exactly If I'm honest Just being completely candid here, I don't think I've yet got to a point where I look at my body and think, that's me, kind of thing. Not yet. And it's been nearly two years since I got pregnant. Yeah. So, but I think that is partly because I just haven't yet started working out again. And I used to work out all the time. And I keep saying, I'm going to get into it, I'm going to get into it.

54:13And I think when I do do that, I think I will feel... But then I'll look at your photos on Instagram and be like, well, I never look like that. Pre-kids. Like, you know. So it's all about where you are, what you know. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And how you feel. But also Instagram is a representation that you are in control of, like you said earlier. Like you control the angles and the images that you post. And I think a part of what is on my mind at the moment is more not what's on the outside, more on the inside. And I don't feel physically fit. Right. That's something that I think is bothering me.

54:45at the moment and it's it's just like a more health thing I just I know I mean I run I ran to the gym the other day which is maybe a couple hundred meters from my apartment and I was like about to have cardiac arrest always really humbling moments like that I was like I couldn't breathe before I even started this class I was about to do and I think everyone was looking at me like is she gonna make it through the class um but there are changes with your whole body and you You know, not only just like your stomach and everything, but like, you know, your boobs and you're putting on your changing cup size all the time.

55:21And that can be weird, too. And it's just part and parcel. Again, where is that salary at? Where is the salary? When it comes to the last year of motherhood, has it been what you thought it would be?

55:44no because I don't think you can ever really know what you're getting yourself into when you have a child like you never know what it's going to be like until you do it and um there's so many things and I'm going to be completely candid here when I'm in the lead up to being a mum I feel like I fully judged other mums on so many decisions let's talk about so at the start we talked about dummies yes what was your stance on dummies never yeah my child will never have a dummy so bad for their teeth yeah no two weeks in I was like where's the tummy which tummy branch are we trying so but there is that isn't it I think before you're in that situation you can kind of look on and go god no but actually it's only when you're in it you can't judge make a decision you can't judge any mother on their decisions until you've walked you know in their shoes and even then you shouldn't judge you know unless someone's being actually abusive to take it Yeah.

56:41So, yeah, there were so many things. And I'm sure so many people were like, yeah, you just wait. When I say, well, I'm never going to do this. I'm never going to do that. And then it's like when you're actually in it, you're just trying to survive. And, you know, whatever methods you think are suitable. And what you think is right for your child changes when your child is there. Yeah. Before, you don't really have those instincts. The instincts come into play. Yeah. Once, you know, I didn't think I'd be, I didn't think I'd even, And the thought of breastfeeding, I was like, no. Really? Yes. So what changed?

57:14I don't know. I had my baby and it just felt like a natural instinct. Did it just sort of happen then? No, it didn't happen. It was like a real have to commit to this because this is like physical, mental battle for me. It was not enjoyable, natural, anything that I thought it was going to be. But you just part of you had that urge to sort of try and to persevere. I just knew that he really wanted it. And I just set myself the challenge of doing it. And I think I wanted to do it. I really wanted to do it. And it was, I always said to my sister in the lead up to giving birth, I was like, I just don't think I could breastfeed.

57:51But like I could pump. Yeah. And I could give my baby the milk that way. But like breastfeeding, I don't know. What was her response to that? She was like, so you're going to pump every single time. You're going to like clean the palm and like sterilize. She wasn't, she didn't like say anything. she was like okay yeah okay cool and I know she was thinking to herself you're never gonna do that that's gonna be so time-consuming and you're just gonna wanna you know whack your baby about and feed that you know in the middle of the night when you're exhausted you're not gonna reach for your pump and try and do that and fair play to people who do because I know there are people who do do that and that's amazing but I was too exhausted and it felt it you know you do get oxytocin when your breastfeeding so that your body does kind of there is a part of a hormonal response that actually enjoys it as well how long did your breastfeeding journey last i'm still breastfeeding are you 13 months yeah i went up to 13 months yeah i'm still breastfeeding i do morning and evening at the moment again this is something that i'm like i'm just going to keep it going till we move into the house and then maybe we can look to stop because i don't want to take all these things away from him that bring him comfort or happiness and joy and then be like just all this change.

59:03I don't want all this change to happen in the space of a few months. We'll find a way. So you did it for a few months too, that's good going. Because I did that for the first, I was like, well, everyone has to have that because I can't. The same. Yeah, I just, yeah, it's hard, isn't it? I don't know what your experience is like, but it was, yeah, not enjoyable for the first. But it gets easier. But yeah, still going. So honestly, it's just more... Also, that's quite nice, knowing you're doing it in the morning and the evening. that's a nice little bit of time for you and him I've kind of been weaning so slowly because I didn't want to do like cold turkey so I've just been like over the last few months just like dropping the feed and also your boobs just to slowly decline that feed yes adjust yes exactly yeah no I know people that did it at cold turkey the pain of that honestly it makes my I'm literally clutching my boobs for anyone that's listening I just feel the burn the heat I can't imagine.

1:00:02The stoneness of that. Each to their own and, you know, good on you. Yeah. If you could write a letter on motherhood, who would it be to and what would you say? I guess I'd write it to me, the judgy bitch that I was. I like this letter. Yeah, I think I'd write it to myself pre-birth and just be like, you just cannot judge any mom until yeah you've been in that position and just be open-minded let your natural instincts take over and just see what happens and just don't set yourself any expectations or boundaries yet just give it a minute yeah okay I love that yeah I also like that you ended up with the question of okay okay you gotta be fine with her okay I like it I like you know how you have to talk to yourself We end the podcast with you completing three sentences.

1:01:00Okay. And the first one is, being a mum means? Being a mum means everything to me. I love that. Since having a child, I? Since having a child, I have become less judgmental. Growth. And I'm happy when? I'm happy when Willoughby's happy. Yeah, it's true. And sleeping. I'm happy when I'm asleep. With you two being in separate beds, are you finding it that you're kind of like, yes, when you're in the spare room? Is the spare room the nightmare? Oh my God, yeah. I'm an awful one with it because if I've had a hard day, I'll be like, I just really think that I deserve the spare room tonight. So you're not just doing it alternate nights.

1:01:44We do, but he's very forgiving of me and I've got a lot going on at the moment with work. So I'm just like, I kind of use that a little bit. Sometimes I'm like, I've had a really hard day. You know, if I've got a bit of a cold, I'm like the coughing's gonna wake him up so you know I am just I am a nightmare with that he's super he's really good but also he's a much deeper sleeper than me Lucy thank you so so much I've loved this thank you for having me it's been lovely absolute pleasure