New Year Special: UNRELEASED moments from 2025

0:07Hello you lovely lot and welcome back to Happy Mum, Happy Baby, Happy Baby, Happy, Happy gorgeous Christmas. Now I know I'm a little late, arriving fashionably late I would say, but I do come bearing a little gift for you all. I've been saving some secret snippets from a couple of our chats this year. Bits that have never been heard before, they are just for you. First, the wonderful Dr Emily McDonagh. She's such a thoughtful, reflective soul and it was just so lovely hearing her open up about the real raw moments of becoming a mum. Enjoy.

0:50Because I remember thinking a lot, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to do this. How do I wean her? How do I feed her? How do I do the nights? Like, you know, how do I, how do I be a parent? I didn't actually know. And it was hard. How did it feel? Did it feel, did you feel okay vocalising that to anyone or, you know, expressing it? Not really, because I think I felt a little bit like I should know. And I just didn't. But you kind of work it out as you go along. But I don't think anyone had ever said to me, my mum obviously was like the font of all knowledge, but not a lot of people would be like, oh my God, that's really hard.

1:28Or I had those feelings of like, you know, what have I done? Yeah. You know, those things. And they're hard to say because, you know, it's always got to be, I feel like it's always like caveated with, but I love my baby. Of course you love your baby. But those two things can still be true. You can still be thinking it, you know. And even though those thoughts that come so often, it's not because, you know, you're questioning your life choices. It's because you're so sleep deprived. It's because you're so depleted. You know, babies come into our lives when we've gone through such a massive thing that we're knackered.

2:00well you're so tired that you can't wait to give birth but then i remember thinking okay the tiredness is worse afterwards i didn't think that was going to happen you're just you're just exhausted and you know i do think now that people talk about that more yeah i think there's in some ways in a humorous way which i quite like as well you know on social media there's often videos of people like oh this is the reality i'm covered in sick or i've been up all night or you know i've got poo on me like whatever it is all those things that i just never really saw back It wasn't there. No. It really wasn't there.

2:33Everything was very glossy. You know, we are talking the height of those magazine days as well. Everything was glossy. Everything was, this is amazing. The realities simply weren't there, which left people feeling really alone and isolated and kind of wondering why they were getting it so wrong. Yeah, just inadequate. Everyone else is coping in this way. Like, why am I not doing that? And then that can lead to mental health difficulties in all sorts as well. It's a really slippery slope, I think. I've been so glad to see that there is a bit more reality out there about, oh my God, this is really hard, you know.

3:07But feeling able to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, it not meaning that you don't love your baby. Of course you do. But it's okay to say, God, that's tough. I'm knackered, you know. I'm so glad that's become more the norm. Yeah, absolutely. Getting pregnant the second time round, how was this? like was it was it kind of did you think about age gaps does it merge into one for you because I feel like I forget what earth is going on I feel like Buzz got to 15 no Buzz got to 15 months and we suddenly went oh gosh if we wanted to see your age gap this is now so what's the age gap between your elders too 23 months for the top two and then two and a half years for between second and third okay so we so Lily and Theo were like two years 10 months apart right so we probably left it a bit longer than you did before going oh maybe now's the time but yeah I remember we sort of decided and then the next minute it was it sort of happened um but I guess finding out this time around was it a bit more like okay it was because you feel like it's still a bit of a whoo when there's a pregnancy test even if you're like that's what you're aiming towards yes it's always a bit of a moment of like okay that's real now okay then but I think my life was in a completely different place yeah I was working I had more of a support network around me because I'd been in Surrey longer by that point so I had like some friends and colleagues and people around me whereas I think when I went there after Millie was born I'd literally moved in such a hurry I didn't have one single person that I knew so I was kind of on my own quite a bit and that made it quite a lot harder whereas with Theo I just was more established because I've been working there and things like that so it was easier from that perspective for sure um did you go to mummy groups or anything like that any baby mum groups not really that's a shame isn't it because that helps it just helps being able to sit next to someone and having that sort of I remember it being like whispered kind of like I didn't sleep last night you know whatever that was and kind of going it's almost like a confessional but while your kids sort of play with bells in the middle yeah see i don't think i ever i think i was always a bit scared yeah don't really know why i was i just i never really did it um and i haven't done with bell actually either really no i don't know why yeah maybe it's just putting yourself out there yeah so i'm quite don't know i wonder if you you yeah you were talking earlier about being shy there's something about your relationship also being in the public eye instantly when you go to those places you're you can be aware um but also i've heard you talk about in the past about the stigma surrounding young mums you know you were 24 yeah yeah and again i think i think that's got a bit less yeah i think yep agreed um but i do remember people commenting on my age and i think because i looked really young at 24 as well looked about 15 which didn't help the situation but yeah I remember definitely being feeling like I was very very young but I think as well it's these days people do quite often start families a little bit later like certainly a lot of my friends now have all their kids are really quite young like maybe say two or three or younger so then I've got this child who's going to secondary school in September and all my friends are like what so definitely I think I was slightly outside the norm in terms of like the age that I had Millie but yeah it was um yeah maybe a bit more isolated than I should have should have really been but I had a lovely support network from like my family yeah and my friends and things like that okay next up Joanna Page no one can talk like Joanna honestly she made my job so easy I didn't even need to ask questions I just sat here and let her talk and every now and then just tried to bring her back to whatever we were originally talking about.

7:12And I didn't mind it at all. She was absolutely phenomenal. So here's a few more of her brilliant stories. I just love her. Do you know, right, this probably shows how dark marital life with four children can be, right? Because very early on, right, the voiceover booth arrived and it's soundproof, completely soundproof. And then you've got, like, this whole sort of thing with events sort of coming out for oxygen and everything because you close the door and it's completely sealed. And I first thought when I saw it, I said to James, oh my God, wouldn't that make a really good episode of like Midsomer Murders or something?

7:47Like you're in there and you're doing a voiceover and, you know, suddenly they find you like dead and it turns out that I've murdered you but I've only been seen on like the screen when you're like linking up to somebody. But the thing that's come out, I instead have put like helium in or something and so you're breathing that. You don't even know. So you've passed out and you've died. And they only realise that it's me because they've seen me, like, walking around in the background on your link thing. And I said that to him on the first day that he got spooked. And I was kind of like, oh, my God, we're in a dark place right now.

8:23But, yeah, I would go in there and he'd settle the kids. And I'd switch my phone off because him settling the kids is like, are you nearly finished right now? And it's like, I am not. I'm in the middle of trying to write. please just leave me alone yeah and so i go in and then i try and write and stuff and i do that until about five in the morning i'd sneak back in get into bed sleep for about two hours get up and then you know do the kids and the school and everything and then oh my god right so oh see look i don't know how gruesome i should get but you can always cut stuff out right this is how i have literally done this book through blood sweat and tears because yeah because i went in one night because it's just been a nightmare trying to get any time to do it with the kids and I went in one night I'm so sorry I apologize I know I've only just met everybody but I have my period and I went in I'm so sorry this isn't like a double whammy all I had right was a pad because I hadn't had time to even get anything because everything just goes out the window so I had a pad I went in there must have been about five o 'clock at night and I was in the flow of everything and I just thought I can't stop in literally every way right and I thought I can't stop I can't stop I can't stop.

9:28This is the only time that you've got. You've just got to get it done. You've got to get it done. And I was aware every time I moved, I was aware that I was just like flowing. Right. It was just going. And I sat there from five o 'clock in the afternoon. I didn't even I think I had a glass of water with me. Didn't have any food, didn't have anything. And I wrote solidly and worked on it till five o 'clock in the morning. Right. And when I got I was I was delirious at this point. I think I'd made myself slightly ill. And I got up and as I got up, everything is kind of like that. and I bled through my pad, through my knickers, through my jeans, through this shirt thing that I had wrapped around my waist and then I bled all out onto his voiceover chair.

10:06No! I quite literally left my mark on there. So it was after that, right, that I decided that at five o 'clock I was going to hand the kids over to him and then I went and would park in a car park of this pub which is being sold at the moment and it's just got like this woods all around it. So I go and sit there and then I just carry on working and writing until about one in the morning when the locks on the car, because I'd sat in there for so long, the locks would just go like that. Would that make you jump? Yeah, because it would just go and I'd just be like, oh my God, thinking somebody's about to attack me.

10:40So I go and park in another car park until about three in the morning and then I come back and park outside the house. But I couldn't go in because I know that they'd smell me and they'd sense me. And then after doing that for a while, I thought, fuck this. And I went and booked a hotel in Henley did you suddenly go oh this is what i should have been doing and james was finally going how's it going i was like i think i only need two two nights that's all i need on about like the second week of staying there like going in like not two weeks solid i think i did two nights and then i had to go off and work and something came back and i went straight to the hotel i was like look just give me a couple more nights and i'm done being an actress do you think it's given you a greater perspective of what you want from life what's having children yes But that whole thing of, I think, when you're an actress early on, you're always doing things with other people in a very different way.

11:26You're looking for their validation. Yes, yes. Whereas actually, there's something very different about... Well, yeah, because it gave me the courage after having Eva to go, no, to say no and allow myself to say no for the first time. And I did to such an extent, it was kind of like, well, you're probably never, ever going to work again. And then I sort of thought, well, OK, I'll carry on going to auditions to show willing, but I'm going to be shit. So I don't get the job and I don't have to go away and leave them. And then I just thought, you know what, fuck it. I'm going to have to adapt my life to the way that I now want to live with the children and just have to change the way that my life is, which is, you know, what I've done.

12:00We end the podcast with you completing three sentences. Being a mum means? It means, well, for me anyway, completely sacrificing everything about me, which I know you're not supposed to or whatever, but I've enjoyed doing that. Sacrificing kind of the old me to be this huge, big mama bear, which I love. and I don't feel awful about sacrificing the old me or whatever, because I know that there still will be the other me in there, whatever, but just being this all loving, being there for them and just being this vessel of love and care and nurture and everything for them and letting them suck it all out of me and get big and independent and strong and then see them all move forward and go, oh, I love you all, get on with your lives and flourish, and I hope you've taken everything you need out of me and just be everything for them.

12:50Since having children, I never go to the toilet on my own. Two days ago, for the last 12 years, I've never been to the toilet on my own. Aside from filming, I then get to go. But every single visit to the toilet, I am sitting there. I've got two spaniels staring at me, normally four children, or from four down to just one child. Two days ago, I'm sitting on the toilet, quite loving the fact that I've got the little steps there for Beau, because it's quite nice putting my legs on there, and it's really comfortable. with her pulling me forward going, Mummy, can I see your poo? I want to see your poo.

13:24And me not even thinking and leaning forward as she's seeing it coming out of me. And finally, I'm happy when? Oh, I'm happy when we're down the caravan in West Wittering and everybody has been out. We've got up, we've all gone and we've walked and played on the beach and we've collected stones and we've crabbed and I've worn them out like they're a load of dogs and then I bring them back to the caravan and they are run ragged and I feel like my job is done and I sit them down and I put a film on for them and I've got my little brood there and I sit in the corner of a very small caravan with my jigsaw and a French martini and I can look at what I've created and how adorable they are and how tired they are and I can just be in silence doing a jigsaw and drinking a French martini.

14:11And that's not all. I've got another little surprise waiting for you after this break, so stay tuned.

14:27Welcome back. Now, time for something a little bit special. So, as you may know, when we record our SOS episodes, I ask you to send us some questions for our experts. Well, back in October, we had midwife Pip on, and you sent in so many amazing questions that we couldn't fit them all in. We just couldn't. I mean, we were filming and recording for ages. So I tucked a few away, ready for a little end of year bonus treats. And that time, my friends, has finally come. Let's go to our first question. If I had postnatal depression first time round, does it mean I would get it again after the second baby?

15:07Such a good question. Not necessarily. So we know you are at slightly increased risk of getting postnatal depression if you've had it before, or you've got a history of mental health complications or depression symptoms, but it's not a given. It's not a case of you had it, therefore you're going to get it again. I always also say, like, why do we think it manifested? Because often there are different triggers. So whether that was like birth trauma, whether it was sleep issues, whether it was feeding pressure, whether it was that you had an infection, whether it was that your baby had a complicated neonatal period, were there other aspects that led into those depression symptoms?

15:44And actually, if we can try and mitigate some of those or explore some of those, that can make a big difference in you just feeling like you've done everything you can. The other thing that I say in pregnancy is to really think about omega-3 intake, because there is good evidence about links between omega-3 intake in pregnant women and depression symptoms, especially in that postpartum. And the hard thing about pregnancy is that, I mean, as a population, we don't eat enough omega-3. But in pregnancy, we definitely don't because we're told to limit all the stuff that's got omega-3 in, which makes it really hard.

16:16But we know that actually adequate omega-3 can support that. So in pregnancy, taking a good supplement for omega-3 is just another one of those little things that you can do. It's not going to do any harm, but it might just be helpful. Very interesting. This is my third pregnancy and probably my third C-section. Should I be worried about complications? Oh, this is such a good one because we have got increasing cesarean section rate. So we are seeing more women having more cesarean section births. And it's not uncommon to have three cesarean section births. And every cesarean section procedure is different.

16:50So I'd always say at your kind of appointment with your obstetrician where they go through your notes, just ask for reassurance whether there were any complications. So things that we know with repeat cesarean sections are excess scar tissue, which can cause adhesions. so things like your bladder and your bowel getting involved, your team know that. They know you've had two previous cesarean sections and you're having a third. So they're going to be very cautious when they're doing that procedure and planning it accordingly. Also, placentas can love attaching to scar tissue. Weird and wonderful fact.

17:25So when you've got scar tissue in your uterus, sometimes placentas will attach very low down, almost in the way of the birth canal, and that can cause excess bleeding. but you'll know about that by your 20-week scan whether you have got one of those awkward placentas or not. So two massive points of reassurance are if you have your scan and your placenta is in a normal place, that's fantastic. And if when you go through your appointment with your obstetrician, your other two cesarean sections were all straightforward, there wasn't any surgical complications, that's again like another real reassurance.

17:57Yeah. It always surprised me when I heard about people that said, oh, you can only have two. So I was like, but what happens? And yeah, I was like, how does the, like, you know, you're forced to have a vaginal birth, but then, you know, what happened? Yeah, yeah, yes. I've never seen anyone walking around just still pregnant. Still pregnant forever. Just see what happens. There's not like a number. You can only have X, Y, Z, because like you say, if you're pregnant, we just have to weigh up what's the safest mode of birth. And if you've had lots of cesareans, that's often another cesarean. But we do just know that some of those risks increase with the numbers that you have.

18:32Right. because I guess if you were to have a vaginal birth after a number of cesareans, would you have... I don't know anything, so I'm just asking the question. Are there then weak spots, do you know what I mean, from where you've had... So there's an increased risk of the cesarean section scar rupturing. Right. So it's not a... Women do have... So after one straightforward cesarean section, there's great encouragement to have a vaginal birth. After two, typically those odds would weigh in cesarean section, but there are women that will have a vaginal birth after two cesareans. But the kind of more cesareans that you have and then try for a vaginal birth, the higher that chance of that scar rupturing.

19:12Right. Yeah, I did not know this. What is the best way to treat a C-section scar? Oh, I love this. This is such a good one because I think there's an idea that it's just a scar and that if you're doing anything with it, it must just be cosmetic, which is valid and fine. We're allowed to do things to improve the way our body looks. But actually it's all about function as well. So if we've got tension in our scar, or often women talk about that, a scar overhang, and there's like tightness and then this like tissue that hangs over the scar, that's all tension. And when we've got tension in a cesarean section scar, that's really low down.

19:47It's on like your bikini line. That can cause lots of pelvic floor dysfunction. It can cause lower back pain, pain with intercourse. So it's really important that we address scar tension. And one of the great things we can do is scar massage. so from around six weeks as long as everything's healed and you're comfortable touching your scar if at six weeks touching your scar feels triggering or difficult just wait try again in a few weeks or you can do a little bit of desensitizing work so sometimes I'll get families to use like a clean mascara brush or a blusher brush and just gently run it across the scar just to start sort of reconnecting with it and switching on those nerve fibers but then gently massaging so you can just use some like lubricated oil couple of fingers and run up and down in zigzags round and round in circles and you'll feel areas that are tight like you do if you get like you know knots in your neck and you can feel them you'll feel that tension and just spend some time massaging those areas and just doing that yourself at home can make a big difference to any tension and also to any like numb patches sometimes you'll have sensitive patches and numb patches where some of my sister She also had a numb patch for a long time.

20:57I don't know if she's still got a numb patch. And her children are nine and five, almost six. But she had a numb patch for a long time. Yeah. We forget. It's major abdominal surgery. Yeah. Like a caesarean isn't a little procedure. It's a massive abdominal open wound surgery. And so nerve fibers are involved. It goes through seven layers of tissue. So it's not uncommon to get bits of kind of nervous impact where you've got like over sensitive areas or numb areas. a massage can work really well really the other thing I sometimes do is a bit of negative pressure so it's not it's not the highest tech option but I've found some little suction cups I think they're sold as cellulite cups you know and I don't know how you use them for cellulite but you just sort of suck them onto the skin and then you can move the cup along and that can just help again with breaking down some of that scar tissue and it works really nicely if you're someone that doesn't feel comfortable touching your scar but sometimes having something that removes you just slightly but kind of does the same thing can work really well so there's lots of work that you can do on your scar any specific oils or anything like that whatever you know your skin's comfortable with so it could be coconut oil olive oil anything that you know that your skin's okay with it's absolutely fine another question is how to deal with morning sickness and nor nausea only week six i'm struggling and scared oh the first trimester is hideous i empathize so deeply Did you get bad morning sickness?

22:23Awful. Really? Yeah, really bad. But interestingly, I've got two boys. They're only two years apart, but it was so different. So my first was, it was relentless. I lost so much weight. I was like in and out of trying to be hydrated, like shocking. But it literally got to 12 weeks and then a flick, like it's just something switched and I was fine. With my second, it was way less severe. All I had to do was eat constantly. Iced fingers. Iced fingers. Iced fingers. Constantly ate, put on loads of weight. but it lingered and lingered and lingered and even towards the end if I brushed my teeth in the evening I'd be sick so I just brush them once a day not great for dental hygiene but is that the thing then leaning into what works for you because there's not going to be a one size fits all like you've just said with your different pregnancies different things work with both of those so you've just got to find the way and I'm really optimistic for the future of significant morning sickness or hyperemesis because there was some research I think it was probably coming up to two years ago now that actually found the cause of it.

23:23And it's to do with like a hormone or a gene that we have as women. And we can't control that. But when we get pregnant, depending on the level, depends on whether you're someone that gets significant morning sickness or gets hyperemesis or doesn't. So if you are someone that had like hyperemesis and wanted another pregnancy, I'm hopeful that in future we'll then be able to support that woman prior to conception to not get that significant level because we've now got a reason which we've never had before. yeah but in terms of actually surviving it the first the first kind of six from sort of six to 12 weeks is when it's at its worst and it tends to peak around weeks nine and ten purely because those hormones really peak and then that placenta's made and things get a bit easier being really kind to yourself literally don't care what you eat and drink just eat and drink whether it is that you live on chicken nuggets or donuts or whatever it doesn't matter whether it's the only thing that you can suck on is ice cubes and ice lollies and you can't stomach water you're drinking orange juice like literally do not worry from a nutritional perspective and actually you can get rid of all the guilt and shame because in that first trimester because you haven't got a placenta what you're eating isn't directly going to your baby right so when you're if anyone's ever had like an early pregnancy scan you almost see like your your baby or the fetus i hate using that term and it almost looks like they're holding a balloon and that little balloon is the yolk sac and it's the yolk sack that's nourishing them and that's made from whatever you were doing for about three months prior so if you've had like a really healthy three months of conception brilliant that's what's feeding your baby if you now live on jam donuts you're great like you're fine just do what you've got to do if you are constantly being sick or you're dehydrated then it's really important you speak to your gp and you explore medication there's lots of medication that can be used but i always say it's more dangerous no one wants to take medication in pregnancy do they it's such a tricky one but it's more dangerous to be significantly dehydrated or ketotic on your pregnancy than to explore some medication that we know is safe in pregnancy and there's lots of different anti-sickness that you could try so if you try one it doesn't work don't think that's it now i've got to suffer yeah you can try something else so keep exploring it but it is it is really tough and you can try all the like acupressure bands and all the ginger and stuff.

25:42And for some people, they swear by it. And for some, it does absolutely nothing. Okay. So if you've enjoyed these little extras, let me know. There's plenty more where that came from. There's always bits that we're having to cut out, but we actually love. But if you want to hear them, we are here to give you what you want. Stay tuned for some very exciting new things in 2026. Happy New Year. Thank you.