Peter Andre: "don’t make the same mistakes. Make new ones."

0:01Coming up on Happy Mum, Happy Baby Her mum goes, so how are you getting on? And I go, we're just fine. I'm out of breath. I'm panicking. I'm in hysterics. She's there going, oh, no, I think I'm three centimetres. You know, she knew what she was. The baby's nearly going to be born. Her mum's going, I need you to calm down, Pete, like as if I'm going through labour. She's giving me tissues. She's absolutely calm. It's hard to say it, but I almost felt like there's a connection I never felt before to do with my mum. And, you know, you meet people all the time that lose their parents and they lose their family members.

0:38It doesn't make it any easier. You know what's coming. That scares me a lot. And I have a lot of anxiety around that. I remember sitting with Emily and we were chatting and she said, you can't treat Princess different to Junior. Even though they're two years apart, whatever rules you have for him, you have for her. Yeah. And it was like a light switch. But then I let Junior do things. Then I had to let Princess do them. And then I was like, oh, thank you for this therapy session. I've actually said a lot of things that I haven't spoken about for a long time.

1:14Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum, Happy Baby, the podcast. Today's guest is a singer, an actor, an author. He's someone who has been a part of my life for a very long time. Even if he doesn't know it, he's also the father of five children. It's Peter Andre. Hello, Peter Andre. Hello. You know, when I hear that, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I've got a lot of kids. A lot of kids. And you were saying before, like, what is the age range? Well, we've just had a baby. So Arabella is one year old. Arabella is her name. I love her name. She's one year and one month. And then you've got, on the other side of the spectrum, you've got Junior, who's 20 this year.

1:5520. You've been in this game a long time. Yeah, but then even Princess is 18 this year. I'm thinking actually these are real milestones this year. 10 years married to Emily this year. My daughter turns 18 this year. It's like wow, there's a lot going on. And Mysterious Girl is now 30. Yeah, thanks. That, I didn't want to mention. I didn't, did you? But thank you. Just because of the age thing, I was like they're going, oh 20, okay, so he could have been 18, he could have been, yeah. But you were so young when that came out. I can remember my earliest, well, not my earliest memory of you, but one of my favourite of me growing up was you played Chelmsford Spectacular.

2:31So before V Festival was a thing, it was Chelmsford Spectacular. Oh, my God, I remember that. And my sister bought a poster on the way home and she didn't put it on her wall, she put it on the ceiling. So you actually slept above my sister for years. I don't know how my mum and dad let her do that, but there you were for a long time in my house. That's mad. A lot of those posters now are used as dartboards, so I just want to let you know. They're multifaceted things. No, honestly, I feel so lucky. Like I think back to all the things and I think I'm so lucky to have done this for so long. Yeah.

3:03And, you know, I know you can relate to this and with Tom and with the boys and we were talking about that out there. You know, to be able to do what you love 10, 20, 30 years on is pretty amazing. And it doesn't always go how you want it to go. You know, things that you have amazing moments and then you have quieter moments. But actually, because I've got the family, I think that that that makes it all feel balanced. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Have you found it easier as you got older to kind of relax into those quieter moments? Yes and no. It's OK. So before COVID, I had said to my manager, I've been with the same manager, Claire, for nearly 30 years.

3:44No, more than 30 years. She's one of my best friends. I said to Claire before COVID when I get to 50 I want to semi-retire if not retire she's like you won't I said no I'm done I've done everything I've wanted to do I was just starting to get into film then so I was doing like this is about 47 I was doing short films in America and they were winning awards and I'm thinking okay I'm going to push this a bit further but I said if anything I'll just do a bit of the acting side but I was kind of done Then COVID hit. And that first COVID was, you know, for some people, it was terrible. For some people.

4:21Basically, you've got a taste of what retirement would be like. Well, the first one didn't. The first one, I thought, oh, yes, I can definitely do this, like not work. Second one came. I'm like, third one came. I was literally nearly crying. I was like, I can't do this. And it just gave me this new lease of life. And I think, and I say to Claire now, 55. Now I'm 52 now, right? So I'm going possibly 60, but no more than 60. Like I just keep pushing it because I'm quite a driven person. Also this whole other strand has opened up. Actually, even with your writing and your acting, it feels like those two areas that really sort of the doors are opening and those opportunities must be fun.

5:05They are. They are. And it's funny because I did acting as a kid. That's what I actually studied and that's what I actually did well at school, not music. I failed in music. I mean some people might say well that explains they weren't ready for you but they weren't ready that's exactly exactly right no so I did I studied acting and then when the music took off I just ran with it I mean I never I never thought it would last more than a year let alone you know to be here doing it now so so I was always going to come back to the acting side and I always wanted to do it in my 40s and it ended up being my late 40s so yeah it's mad it's like I'm 52 and I feel very young.

5:43So I'm not, I'm not ready. I'm not ready to stop at, at all. So you just, you, you keep having children, so you've got to work to be able to, you know, keep bringing them up. That is true. And I have, I have realized that I think for so long you do things for yourself and for gratification. And then you start thinking, actually, I've got a lot of, you know, I've got a lot of mouths to feed and I want to keep going. And yeah. And then you start thinking, well, everything I'm getting is going to go to them anyway, which I never used to think like that. Times have changed and they're good times. Yeah.

6:15Talk to me about your childhood because you lived here originally. Yes. And then you moved to Australia when you were six? Yes, so I was born in London in Harrow. No way! That's where Tom's from. Oh, really? South Harrow, yeah. Please don't tell me he was born in the same hospital. Do you know what hospital he was born in? North Oak. Oh, okay, close. No, it was Northwick Park Hospital. Oh, no, no, no, I'm lying. It's Northwick Park. That's totally where he was born. Every time I passed it on the Met Line, Tom would always go, bear in mind we've been together for over, well, we've known each other for 27 years.

6:44That's why I was born in that hospital. So me and him were born in the same hospital. That is something else. And then at six years, I don't meet many people that were born at Northwick Park. That's crazy. We're already putting it on the map. We really are. And then we went to, then I moved to Australia when I was six. And then when I was about 21, I came back. And 21, 22 was Mysterious Girl. Yeah, and then I've been here ever since. So what was it like having a Greek family that lived in England move to Australia? What was that like living in Australia? Okay. Have you ever seen The Inbetweeners?

7:18Yes. And remember when you see that thing where they're going on holiday, the guys are all going together on the film, the first film. They're all excited. Yeah. And then they get to the hotel and they're like, please don't tell us this is our hotel. Well, it's a similar situation, although Australia was actually more beautiful than I could imagine visually. The problem was, and where this bit comes into it, is that as a kid here, I'm six years old, my girlfriend, my friend that's a girl, because all we did was hold hands. But she was from Sri Lanka. My best friend that lived across the road, his family were from India.

7:56It was all multicultural. We were Greek. We fitted right in. There was no nothing. But my parents were Jehovah's Witnesses. Right. So traditionally, as Greeks, you're Greek Orthodox. Yeah. So this was going to be a red flag that we didn't realise until we got to Australia. Really? Yeah. It wasn't just that. But when we moved to Australia, I remember seeing it and just seeing paradise. It was just beautiful. Whereabouts in Australia, where are you? On the Gold Coast in surface paradise. I mean, it was everything you could imagine and more. For beauty, there was nothing like it. but from the first day of school it was it was that moment of like oh please let this not be my school because it was tough by the way as I got older it got fine but it was just really tough at the start kids were you know it was a lot of racism it was a lot of bullying and punching and and and I didn't know what what hit me because it was just everyone was beautiful blonde head blue eyes and here we were these greeks and then of course we were jehovah's witnesses so then when we did meet parts of the greek community they're like really kind of not one of us so it was we were quite isolated for a long time was there a jehovah's witness community over there there was which we which we of course eventually got into as a family and we and we were accepted the funniest thing of all was i felt that we of all the things the only ones that accepted us were the church because, well, because they don't care where you're from.

9:33Yeah. They just want you to have the same beliefs. So it was a difficult time. You know, of course now I have nothing but love for Australia because my family lived there. You go back now it's multicultural. But it was tough. And I still sometimes now get nervous about certain places when I visit because they just bring back some of those memories. But that's not to do with Australians. It's just to do with what happened at that time. Yeah. Yeah. What was family life like? And was family life led a lot by what was happening at the church? Yeah. So basically, I'll put it to you this way. If anyone that's a Jehovah's Witness or has been as Jehovah's Witness knows that they're very strict on their rules.

10:18And that's it. You either follow it or you don't. You either stay or you go. But being from a traditional Greek family meant that we had those traditions as well. So we had to follow the Greek traditions and the Jehovah's Witness rules. Now, trying to combine them was tough. I felt accepted by the Witnesses. And of course, at home, I felt so secure with mum and dad and with my brothers. And that's probably why I feel I get really close to people, because I feel like that's how I grew up. Just being really close to the ones that accept you, if that makes sense. Yeah. How big was your family? Massive.

10:56Was it? So I'm one of six. Amazing. Yeah, so I'm the youngest. And my dad, check this out. His mum and dad were together. So it was all one set of parents. She was pregnant 18 times. 18 times. And then they had, she had 13 children. So some of them, you know, were miscarriages. But she had 13 children. And then the 13th child, I think, had lived till about six months. Oh, gosh. Yeah, which was traumatic because dad was the oldest. So he had to. But, you know, I hear those stories about how they all lived in the same room, a room, a small room where they all live together and that they were all happy and, you know, and they're all close to this day.

11:41And it's crazy. Yeah. So being one of six, what was that like at home? Was it was it chaos? It was, but I felt safe. Yeah. And I think because what was going on at school meant that when I was at home and my brothers were there, I just felt and my sister, but I just felt. Was it one girl, the rest boys? One girl and the rest boys are poor things. Honestly, I really feel for her. I even say to her now, I say, I'm so sorry because we were so strict on her. Really? And I didn't have the right because I was younger than her. But all my other brothers were older than her and it was like, you know, big brother this.

12:18And we were all protected because of a lot of the racism and stuff that was going on. So we were a bit kind of like protective of each other. But because she was the only girl in the family, everyone took it upon themselves to be her dad. Yeah. And I actually feel for her because she had it pretty tough as a child. And now she's now now you can't tell her what to do. No, no. She's a strong woman. And I love her for that. So coming from that big family. Yeah. Did it make you think that when, you know, when your time came that you'd want a big family yourself? Yeah, I always said I always said I would have five children.

12:55Really? I always said it. And even though, now when I say technically I've had six children, I think everyone knows what I mean by that. So I've actually changed six sets of nappies along the way and each one of them, you know, I've loved the same. What is interesting though is when I think back, so obviously I've myself had five children, those five children was always the number that I chose and Emily always chose three. She always said, I'm going to have three children, and she's got three. And it's mad how it's happened. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know how it's happened, but I'm saying it's mad.

13:32This isn't a science lesson. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the bird was so big and the bee was small. I love how it took you a minute. Thank you for that. But I mean, you know, so you had the idea that you wanted to have a big family. Yes. And now they do range from, you know, nearly 20 to one. I guess we can talk about family life, I guess, instead. So talking about Junior and Princess, what was it like bringing them into the world? And, you know, can you remember, were you there at the birth? What was that experience like? Yeah, every time. And every experience has been incredible. Every time, your emotions.

14:16I can't... I remember saying to my brother Michael, because he's just had his... Well, he had his first child a year and a half ago. And I said to Mike, I can't explain it to you, but there's an emotion that is unlocked at that moment. You'll never understand that emotion until that moment. And there's two emotions, I think, in life that I've found. One is mourning. I never knew what mourning was until I lost my brother. I never understood that feeling. And I never understood the feeling of the birth of a child. I think it's probably different for a mum because they're linked to that child from the very beginning.

14:53So I can understand that their connection is far greater than anything we could imagine. But for me, I just can't explain that feeling, that emotion. It's like you're laughing and you're crying at the same time and you're happy and you just can't. I can't explain it. And it happened every single time. It's not like one of them is like, oh, yeah, I've already been through. Yeah, just that it unlocks that thing. That thing. It's very different, yeah. And it's, I remember Arabella. The one thing is with Arabella is that I remember when she was born and I looked at Ems, we both burst into tears because we knew at that moment that this was it.

15:37This was the last one. Really? We knew it. We both knew it and we've never known it before. It's always been like, yeah, never again, maybe, never again. We knew. We knew. That's so funny because I can remember literally giving birth to Max and having that thing in my head of this is the final time. Yeah. It is that weird thing of just having that realisation. Well, I never knew whether she was crying because she was thinking, can you get away from me? But I figured she was thinking the same thing as me. This is it. Well, I guess this is an interesting thing. How are you in those situations? Oh, I'm a mess.

16:11Are you? Oh, so when Emily was pregnant with Millie, right, we were driving to Somerset. So she woke up in the morning. So prior to Millie, I'd only experienced two births that were cesarean. So I'd never experienced. So you're going into the unknown as well. I'm going into the unknown. So it's six o 'clock in the morning and Emily goes, hun, I'm like, I'm asleep. She goes, hun, I go, hun. She goes, I think my waters are broken. And I went, oh. She went, no, hon, my waters are broken. I sat up and I went, what? Okay, what do I do? She goes, just let's get the bag, let's get in the car and we're going to drive to Somerset, Taunton, four hours.

16:58Why? Because that's where her mum and dad are, right? Oh, of course, yeah. So I said, okay. This is a great idea. So I said, but if it's broken, doesn't it mean that everything's going to happen now? You know, it's like if you open a bottle, you can't pull it upside down. That's my brain is thinking this, right? I'm really confused at this point. I'm huffing and puffing. She's very relaxed, right? We get in the car. We're driving. There's traffic. It's now we're three hours in. Okay. She goes, hon, I need to call my mum. She calls her mum. Her mum goes, so how are you getting on? And I go, we're just fine.

17:40Everything's fantastic. She's just, everything's, I'm out of breath. I'm panicking. I'm in hysterics. She's there going, oh, no, I think it's, I'm three centimetres. You know, she knew what she was. She was so calm. The baby's nearly going to be born. So mum was trying to say, let's divert. Yeah. You've got to go to this hospital. She's going, no, no, I'm going to wait. Everything's going to be fine. I'm crying. She's giving me tissues. She's absolutely calm. I'm going, hon, I just love you so much. Everything's going to be fine. I mean, what was going through your head in that moment? Were you thinking of any way so you could get out of the traffic?

18:16We couldn't. We were on the motorway. It was standstill. There's cars everywhere. I'm thinking of the guy next to me in the car looking, going, this guy's getting battered because he's crying his eyes out, right? I was so, honestly, I was so, so emotional. Did you make it all the way? We made it all the way because her mum's talking to her all the way. She's going, right, where are you now? What's happening now? I mean, the pain was constant. It was constantly every few seconds, you know. Yeah, the contractions. And I'll let her explain it to you a bit better. And for those that don't know, ladies and gentlemen, Emily was really upset with me today because I've come to do this.

18:58And she said, why are you going to talk to Joanna and not me? Because she loves you. So she'll be on. We'll get her version of this soon, don't you worry. We'll cross-reference and fact-check everything you said. Her mum's going, I need you to calm down, Pete. Like as if I'm going through labour. Right? So we get to the place. My brain's not working. I go straight past the entrance to find a parking spot. Right? The mum's rushing out going, you need to reverse. You need to reverse. I reverse. I get out of the car. This lady comes up and goes, oh, can you do a photo with my son? And Emily's going, we've got to go.

19:35I take the photo. and then she goes can we do one this way Emily I mean I feel so bad when I think about this I feel so bad actually I'm picturing it now I'm there standing going hey thumbs up she's going to get me inside she starts walking her mum runs out because her mum's a paediatrician by the way those that don't know and her dad's a urologist surgeon so he's in the same hospital so it's all going on we've had to take her literally within 30, 45 minutes she'd given birth. No. From getting to the thing. Now, guys, I feel partly to blame because it could have been 42 or 45 minutes had I not taken that photo outside.

20:21And Emily goes, can you just say no just once? And I said, but now in that situation, I would be like, I'm really sorry. I can't. I would. But I'd never experienced it before. And also, sometimes in that situation, just to say yes is quicker. Yes. It's really hard. But it's when they go, can we just do it this way as well? That's when you should go, I'm so sorry, but I need to go. Yeah. Because a baby is coming out of her food for any moment. So the baby's coming out. Yeah. I'm crying. She's calm. Right. I'm an emotional wreck. I need to lie down.

21:01Literally, she just said to me, you are absolutely hopeless. But she loves me because she knows that I don't mean. I mean, how were you when you got in the room? Oh, I was finished. I was finished. I was holding her hand and I'm crying. I'm trying not to be loud because I'm emotional because I've never experienced a natural. But I didn't know how it works. So I thought you'd go in because the night before I said, so how do we do it? Do we just go in and order room service? And because I remember being at the Portland, right? Very different. Yeah. And you're there the night before and you're going in at 8.45 in the morning and you're ordering food and you're just talking like normal.

21:39And then the next morning you get up and go, oh, we're going in in an hour. I didn't know that this is happening, that this is actually happening. So when the baby arrived, I mean, I think there's photos of it that Emily's mum took that I just, I won't even look at them now because it's so embarrassing. I was finished. The emotion that I had, I can't explain it. Also, that feeling of, I think, I imagine being a partner for someone who's going, having a C-section and someone who is going down the other route. They're two very different things. One is a very controlled environment. Yes. The other, it's very animalistic.

22:18It's very different. It was very different. And of course, then Emily with Theo had a cesarean because he was breached. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then that again became a new experience because now I was so used to what had happened last time. And this time I knew the times we were going in. So I'm very lucky I've got to experience all of that. Bit gutted, we didn't have pizza room service that day, but no, I'm just joking. No, no, honestly, it was an amazing experience every time. Not for the wife, I'm sure. Yeah, but for you it was wonderful. There was room service. I mean, who do I think I am?

22:52How did I make this about me? Well, what about Arabella? How did your final, you know, birth experience, what was that like? well I so imagine I'd experienced these emotions every time and each one although was as special as the other each one was slightly different emotion but the last one was a completely different emotion it was that that emotion of we we not reached your goal is not exactly the right way to say it but I think knowing we knew it was it and that like you said it was it's a different feeling because it's almost a bittersweet moment you know it's beautiful because you've you've experienced it I mean how lucky when I think of people that can't have children you know and I'm thinking I've got to experience it that many times so that's the first thing yeah and then I'm thinking, I know we're never going to do this again.

23:50And that was a different, and that was, so I was a mess again, a complete mess. I mean, literally, I, I just, I just, yeah, I, I am very lucky. And sometimes I take things for granted and I don't realise I do. And then I go, those moments when I think back to them, I think like how lucky, how lucky, genuinely lucky I am. Yeah. You know, and not being the, you know, Emily had a real complication with Belle, which I'm sure she'll tell you about, which people didn't know about. And I don't know if she's ever talked about it, but complications that happened after that were very serious. And so we, you know, it was a very scary time as well.

24:35But it also confirmed that it's the last time. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely does.

24:49I imagine that when it comes to bringing life into the world, there's something about grief happening in your life as well that makes that life even more of a miracle, even more poignant and kind of... I don't know, I think it hits you in a very different way when you've gone through a grief. You are so spot on, and I think that maybe what had also gone... I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it, but I think when Amelia was born and it was the first natural birth, I also think a lot of the emotion was because I'd just lost my brother and I think that it was almost like I'd lost someone and I'm now gaining someone, which I didn't really understand until that moment.

25:37But equally, I noticed that the emotions that I had with Arabella, this you know I will not get emotional because I've I've I've you know gotten strength from this but seeing how my mum is at the moment and knowing how close we are to the inevitable which I don't want to really say um that my daughter being born I also saw for the first time I saw the image of my mother I've never seen that before when she was born I've never seen that with any of the other children. And that was an extra emotion because I kept thinking, is this,

26:18it's hard to say it. You know, you don't want to sound silly when you say like, you know, is this mum? But I almost felt like there's a connection I never felt before to do with my mum and yeah it's a tough one and and you know you meet people all the time that lose their parents and they lose their family members and they and and I've had the joy of having my mum and dad for well 52 years and mum and dad if mum makes it to September which I pray they'll be married 70 years which is crazy and so when I look at that and I think imagine all these people that lose their parents young and they've had a full life but unfortunately it doesn't make it any easier you try and think of others that have gone through it but you know what's coming and and that scares me a lot and I you know I have a lot of anxiety around that and I think it's very normal to have that but I'm going to see her this weekend so I'm very very happy that's lovely I also think when you have children and you you are creating those bonds it obviously makes you think about your own parents and the bonds that you've got there and I also think you know when someone important to you is is poorly there's a grief that's already happening it's not grief doesn't start when when they die you know I think you you're already there It's almost, I think that was what was really hard.

27:51When I lost my brother, it was so sudden. It was like there was no time to prepare because I'd really thought that with the treatments they were giving him that he was going to be okay. We all thought so. And even at one point, I remember one of the doctors saying, we need to talk about maintenance medicine. So, you know, that was a pure shock. I guess if there's any sort of help in a scenario like what's happening with my parents and I'm sure millions of other people's parents is that because they're winding down and yes, she's got other things. It's not just age. It's the Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.

28:29But because she's winding down slightly quicker than we like it to happen. I think that it does. You do start mourning way before. Yeah. And that's, again, something new. And I still know how I'm going to react and I'm still not prepared. But I think nature or whatever it is, is preparing me. I can feel the preparation, whereas I never had that with Andrew. It doesn't make it any easier, but it makes it different, I guess. Well, I feel like in that situation, that mourning, that grief, it kind of hangs, actually. It just sort of hangs over you and sort of moves with you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I hope you haven't lost anyone.

29:13No, not my parents. Close friends, but not parents, thankfully. But, you know, it's that we all know. It's the only, my dad always says, you know, it's the only thing we're all certain of. That's the only certainty in life. And taxes. And taxes. But, you know, it is interesting, though. Why then? And I've always wondered this. Why do we get so upset about it? Why are we so scared of it? when we know that not the richest man in the world, not the most powerful man in the world, not the best doctor in the world is exempt. So why are we so, why is it so hard? What is it like in Greek culture? You know, because with the Italians...

29:55Are you Italian? Yeah. Ciao, bella, come on. My nonna always used to talk to us about death. You know, whenever we were there, you know, we'd have a new photo taken of her because, you know, So in Italy, they put a poster up of, you know, a person that's died on the dates and stuff. And then that photo gets put on their gravestone and stuff. So things like that, we should pick out our outfits. Yeah, so it was always a thing that was spoken about a lot. I don't know what the Greek Orthodox culture is. And by the majority, I think most Greeks, I might be wrong, but I think most Greeks are Greek Orthodox.

30:27And there might be something in a religious way there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But surely on our point, I think we've always had the attitude of our parents are too strong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're never going to get old. Yeah. They're never going to, you know, it's almost like we can't believe it. Yeah. You know, and because we love them so much and they're our pillars of strength, they can't be weak. What do you mean? Like, you know, it was only three years ago. Mum was up baking cakes till one in the morning and we'd go, Mum, relax, rest, rest, rest. And then three years later, you're in a position where, you know, it's just, I don't know.

31:04But I do get confused that when we know the inevitable, we still struggle so hard. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Are there qualities from your mum and dad that you hope that you have taken on as a parent? Yes. Before I say that, I want to say thank you for this therapy session. I've actually said a lot of things that I haven't spoken about for a long time. And actually it's really been nice because as much as there were times I thought, don't, don't, don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well up. And I could feel it, you know, when you start breathing differently. And then, but afterwards I thought it was so nice to actually talk to someone about it, if that makes sense.

31:49Thank you, Peter. Yeah, like you talk about things with your wife and your family, but there's also things you don't want to say. because you don't want to keep bringing things up. It's just nice. It was nice. So that was the first thing. Thank you. In regards to the one thing that Dad always said was, he said to do with work was never take things for granted because he said as quick as something comes, it goes. And when I was younger, I learned a lot of those lessons. I didn't listen to everything my parents said because when I stopped becoming a Jehovah's Witness, I did go a bit wild. Did you?

32:21Yeah, because for so long you're not allowed to do anything. and then I just thought, well, you know, and then you kind of feel bad because you're just, you know, you're being stupid and careless and whatever, whatever. But anyway, that's the one thing I took from Dad because when I did get older I thought, man, why couldn't I have just really just enjoyed those moments in a different way? And I know I shouldn't regret. I know that and I know you should just accept that everything happens. But I wish I'd listened to dad a bit more about how I'd saved. And dad had saved a lot of money for me without me knowing.

33:01And I was being careless and flying my friend's first class and didn't care and partying and girls and just didn't think. And, you know, and I think, yes, some people go, yeah, but that's normal. I was also a bit of an idiot. But you're also allowed to be at certain ages, you know. And I wonder if, you know, when, let's say, with Junie and Princess, because they're older and they're closer to those ages, when they are acting in certain ways that you know as a responsible adult that maybe they shouldn't, is there a part of you that can kind of go, I did that? And actually what my dad did, he acted in this way and maybe, you know, to almost be kinder on them when they're making those mistakes.

33:43Yeah, because our parents were so strict. If I ever did anything wrong, it was the end of the world. Whereas now with them, I'm like, listen, I think back exactly that. But there is something I've really taken from them and I've instilled into these kids and I am so proud of it. It's the one thing I can be proud of, manners, politeness, those sorts of things. My parents always, I used to see my dad talk to everybody. He didn't care where you worked, what you did, where you were from. He talked to everybody. And I'm like that. I love everybody, right? So then my kids would go when they were younger, Dad, why do you talk to everyone?

34:22Why do you say hello to everyone? Because it doesn't mean that you're not going to get people that aren't nice to you. But generally speaking, you put that out, generally you're going to get very nice things back. and it makes life in itself much better because you're happier because you're not met with negativity constantly. You know, you're putting out being nice and generally people are nice back. And I remember saying it doesn't mean you're not going to fall. Yeah. But most likely someone will reach their hand out to lift you back up if you're nice. It doesn't mean everyone will, but somebody will.

34:56And so all those things I took and I instill it in my kids and they get annoyed because I'm like, you know when one of your kids goes to school and someone goes, how are you today? And they go, good. I say, no, good, thank you. How were you? Or how was your day? It's really important to ask the question back. Now, some people find that annoying, like that I'm constant with that. But when they hear them do it, they're like, oh my God, how polite are these children? And I'm like, yes. So that is one thing I feel really, you know, really good that I've taken from mum and dad that, you know, You've just got to treat everybody the same.

35:34Well, and also I feel like with you, you practice that. So your kids will have seen you do that over the years. Yes. You know, that thing of always being polite to whoever's chatting to you. But it doesn't mean I wasn't an arsehole in the past. I know the things that I've, I know myself and I know I could have been, you know, handled this different or that different or, you know, I know that. You're not an angel. No one's an angel. No, and it's actually when you realize mistakes, you go, wow, okay. Because dad always said to me, and this is something, I love this quote, and I never understood it until I was older.

36:11He said, don't make the same mistakes, make new ones. Now, I didn't understand what he meant by that until I realized that, in other words, you're going to make mistakes. Just don't repeat those ones. And when you get to that habit of making new mistakes and not repeating the old ones, you just somehow start getting more balanced and more, you know, and you realise the things that... So, yeah, so I feel good about things that they've taught us, mate. They were the best. They are the best. Of course we're going to say that. So with your kids, you've got, as we said, quite the age range. How is that juggling kids who are, you know, off driving and, you know, living their life and making all those mistakes that you can, independently from your parents, and still having one in nappies.

37:01Tough. But I'm going to explain why. Beautiful, wonderful. You know, when you have teenagers, how old are your elders? Eleven. Okay. So when you have teenagers, you've always got that thought of, are they going to be rude and moody and this and that? I didn't find that. Really? No, I didn't. What I do find difficult is when they get partners, you either accept their partners. Yeah. I'm not speaking about them specifically. I'm just saying now what I've realised. Yeah. If you don't accept their partners, you push them away. So that becomes a tricky time because you hope they're going to find someone nice and then I've got my rules.

37:40Right. So I don't really like sleepovers because I don't want my younger kids to think that you can just, if you've been with someone for a very long time, I might be different. But those rules are the rules. So when they've wanted to stay with their partners, I've been like, you can, but not here. Is that getting more difficult now, though, because they're getting older? It is. You know, now that they are, you know, princess is nearly 18, junior is nearly 20. So they're getting into the adults. But it's because we've got younger kids that I don't want them seeing bedroom doors shut. And then say they break up and then they've got someone new.

38:19And then I'm like, well, I've done it once. Why don't I do it again? And then they go, oh, okay, is this normal? Now, that might be prudish, but I also have Emily I've got to consider, and she feels the same way. So that bit I've found tough, right? That's the only bit. And also because a baby has very different demands to a 17 or 18-year-old, but what I am very grateful with the two older ones now is that they're really understanding. They understand my – they know my rules and my rules, and that's it. Don't even ask. Just that's the rules. I'm sorry, but that's it. But they also, we have a great way of communicating and we talk to each other about things and things that some subjects I find difficult.

39:03Really? So I'll be like, Ems, I'll be like, listen, please, I can't. Just come, but they're your kids. I know, I know. I just can't. You know, certain subjects, and because she's a doctor, I just feel she can explain it in more. Are we talking about the birds and bees again? Birds and bees, I... You've done that. The birds and bees, yeah, we mentioned that. The bird got stung. Yeah, we mentioned that. It was more about changes. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So having a doctor talk about it felt a little bit nicer. It just felt nicer. And even the initial chat about the birds and the bees was because my parents never...

39:43Yeah. We weren't allowed to have sex education at school because of our belief, our religion. So we weren't allowed to do that. Our parents didn't want to talk about it. I mean, we started this chat saying you didn't know how five children happened. Maybe you didn't know how five children happened. You know, I, yeah. I just, I just wondered, you know, I think I did it. I found out, well, not the hard way. On the job. I found out on the job a few things and I was like, oh my God, this is great. so then I went a bit wild which I shouldn't have done but yeah yeah I just remembered that it was never a discussion so now when kids have got that coming up my daughter's 11 and she's and they're asking about teaching them this at school and I'm freaking out because not to the school just within myself because I'm going hang on a second they're so innocent they don't know any of this stuff and now we're just going to present it to them and I'm saying Emily is this the right age?

40:46I don't understand. Why do they have to know at this age? And then she's like, but there are children at that age that get pregnant. And then you go, what? So then you start going, right. It's all safeguarding, really, isn't it? It's all safeguarding. So as someone that grew up in a different household, I've struggled with that. But that doesn't mean I'm right. I actually think, I understand. And I said, but can't the parent be the one to, the parent being Emily? Can't the parent do it? I said, do they have to learn it from, I don't know. But I understand. I do get it. But I've had to have it explained to me.

41:26Have things been different, you know, first time around parenting and then doing it again now? Have things felt very different? Yeah, because I was different. Yeah. You know, when Junior was a kid, like really young, I remember trying to be kind of old school, traditional, you know, he's the boy of the family. Really? Yeah, I was a little bit like that. I didn't always agree with it. Yeah. But because it was the way we were sort of brought up, I had a bit of that. And it was only when Junior got to about eight or nine. Yeah. I just thought, I don't, no, I don't really like this. And I remember sitting with Emily and we were chatting and she said, you can't treat princess difference junior, even though they're two years apart, you, whatever rules you have for him, you have for her.

42:11Yeah. And she said, and I'll tell you why, because it'll cause problems and it's not right. And it was like a light switch. All of a sudden I went, she's right. But then I let junior do things. Then I had to let princess do them. And then I was like, oh my God. And also growing up in a household where you said, you know, how you and your brothers treated your sister. You know, there is that. Yeah, because I instilled, I tried to instill at first, when the first two were really young, I tried to instill what we were taught. Yeah. Because that's what you naturally do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I started to question it and went, hmm, why can't this be like this?

42:54Why can't that be like that? What was I doing? You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden it's a realisation and you realise that your parents just did what they thought was right and you've got to do what you think is right, you know. And so that was a big transition for me. One of the best things I ever did was let go of all this old school thinking. Some of it I agree with manners, you know, being polite, helping people, you know, that's like get up and help that person, you know. That I understand. And the old school way of thinking where you can't be friends with your kids. Now, this argument goes on.

43:33I see it in debates all the time. I've had someone say about me, this guy's an idiot. He thinks you can be friends with your kids. You have to be a parent. And then I think, well, actually, you look foolish because, of course, you have to be a parent. That's first and foremost. That's not even a question. That's number one. But additionally, you should be their friends. because if you're not and they don't feel safe enough to talk to you like I didn't with my parents, all the anxiety and all the stuff I suffered years later and still suffer now is because I didn't know who to talk to. Your kids need to feel that they can have that conversation.

44:09That respect, that communication, that openness. I think I can get stuck sometimes when the kids say something and just going, no, and not being open to what they're saying and actually kind of going, this is not actually helpful for anyone. one, we need to be able to actually communicate because I respect you as an individual. And I want you to know that I really value everything that you're saying. So it is about kind of stopping yourself and kind of going, ah, I know this behaviour, let's unpick that. Yeah. And, you know, I might not be right in my way of thinking, but I'm sort of glad that I became open minded.

44:42And I remember saying to Emily, the best thing about being open minded or becoming open minded was that I didn't do it because I had to change with the times. I did it because it naturally felt like that's what I should do. That's what I wanted to do. You know what's interesting? Some of the things I used to say, I wonder if I ever believed them or if I just felt I had to say them. You play a role. Because I, you know, there's things that we learn as Jehovah's Witnesses that I still sometimes feel like I say in a conversation. And then I go, did I actually agree with that? Or is that just what's instilled in you?

45:16And you just kind of say it. yeah it's really interesting the joy I feel of of being in a in a blended family is the fact that you have another person to so essentially what I'm saying is Emily's role as also a step parent within that and you being able to have another sounding board so that your whole family feels like a blended complete family yeah absolutely I mean Emily's family is very similar to mine Yeah. So she's one of five. And and I remember meeting them and thinking, you know, I don't know if you know, being from Italian background, were your parents both Italian? My dad. OK, we were it was always like when we were kids, you marry a nice Greek girl.

46:00She cook for you. She, you know, clean for you. Marry a nice Greek girl. And I never I never met. I never. My nonna never, ever, ever let my brother even like clean the table. Yeah. It was like you sit down. The girls will do it. Which was half the problem because my mum used to say to me, no, no, no, you sit. And I said, but mum, we've got to help you. No, no, that's a woman's job. It wasn't even my dad that used to say it. It was my mum. My nonna used to shout at us if my married stood up. Yeah. So then, and again, that's something that changed in me. Because I was like, just because that's the way we were brought up, I'm so hands on.

46:32The dad never changed nappies. The dad never. That doesn't mean that we have to do that just because that's what we were told. It's like, OK, maybe the first time you don't quite know what to do. But and I remember having this convo with dad where he said to me, I said, dad, you know how for so many years you said, oh, mom will do that. Dad does this and mom does that. Right. They had their own thing. I said, you know, I don't want to do that, dad. And I said, well, I said, because now mom doesn't talk to you. I don't want Emily not to talk to me. I want her to be so happy because I'm just jumping in on everything.

47:05Get rid of that resentment before it starts. I don't want any resentment. I'll do everything. Thank you very much. I remember mum and dad being so, you know, because they, because Emily's dad also operated on my father. He's operated on me. He operated on me and that's how I met Emily, which is another story. But he operated on my father and my father's like, but it's the type of people they are, just beautiful people. When I met her family, I realised that we share almost identical values, you know. they taught me a couple of things like no screens at the table or a one screen rule if the tv's on I never knew about that and actually I think it's a great idea yeah but us sitting around the table having dinner every night that's both families we were both like that yeah so there's a lot of similarities you know yeah I absolutely love that how has uh becoming dad to a newborn in your 50s been compared to when you're in your 30s?

48:02Well, I realised that I was definitely more tired this time. And to be fair, what could I say that would be anywhere near what Emily's had to go through? Let's be honest, because the tiredness she would have had of her body as well as tired, tired, would be on a different level. But yeah, I would say I found the lack of sleep a lot harder this time. Really? I've got the same energy I've always had but it just yeah the tiredness. Do you feel like you were able to lean into being a parent of a little one more than what you would have done years ago? I don't know I feel like with my third I was a bit like actually I just want to sit and hold I just want to actually stop and soak this up which actually maybe with Arabella you might have had.

48:49I was very much like that with Junior too. Really? Yeah Junior was like I couldn't let that kid go I just couldn't. And all of them. I mean, but what I mean is there was something, because it was probably a firstborn, there was something I just couldn't, I couldn't. And then I found as time went on, I was busy and I was, you know, probably not spending as much time as I did now with Arabella. I took six months and literally six months of just bonding, bonding, bonding, which was the most incredible thing. So, yeah, I have felt that with her as well. all of them I love equally and all of them I've had we've bonded in such incredible ways I'm not about to make you be your favourite that's not how this podcast goes I wouldn't be surprised if she would text me and go even though it's not out yet that girl is radar I'm telling you, oh she is radar I know, I have to you know when you check your phone to see if someone's listening, yeah, do you reckon it's her?

49:51it's her it's not Apple that we need to worry about She is such a sweet girl, though. But she's a brilliant girl. We love her so much. And I cuddled her so much for a very, very long time. In fact, I've only just put her down yesterday. Peter, if you could write a letter on being a dad, who would it be to and what would you say? Probably to my younger self. Because I feel I don't need to write the letter to the kids because I tell them what I, you know, I give them my opinion. But with me, I'd go, chill out, just relax. Everything's going to be all right. when she's pregnant with Millie don't hyperventilate in the car get her to Taunton safe park in the right spot mate I would literally I would do this slightly different I don't think the emotions would change but I think I would I don't know I'd probably say that actually the moments are so beautiful enjoy it all because I think at the time you always worry what if I don't know how to do this what if I don't know how to do that what if I drop them what if this what if I don't change them or what if I haven't changed them for, you know, it's been sitting there for, you know, constantly, the worries you have as a parent, oh, my gosh, it's unbelievable.

51:02Well, and the fact that now with Arabella, you're not having to worry about those things. You know those little bits. But actually now the worries have gone to the other end and actually, you know, do they feel bigger, those worries, because those kids are bigger and therefore the problems that we have in life can be bigger? Yes, but I also do feel like I'm getting all those initial worries with the baby that I didn't have. Really? Yeah, I'm worried about her falling or, you know, I'm always, wherever she is, I like sit behind her or I put something behind her. And actually part of their progress, which Emily has explained to me, and I should know because I've been through it.

51:40Yeah. But is that they experiment and they explore. And I found myself a bit too worried all the time. And so I'm trying to pull back a bit on that because it is a lot. Yeah. Because I love her so much. She's just, you know, she's a year old and I'm just, and I know I'm not going to see, well, no, I shouldn't say I'm not going to see that again because one of my children may have kids. Yes, yes. And that might be a whole different thing. But not ready for that. Please God, please no. Well, the joy of having such a big age range is the fact that you're going to be out of the baby phase and who knows?

52:18You're not that far from Princess and Junior possibly. Please don't. Peter, we end the podcast with you completing three sentences. The first one is being a dad means? Being a dad means you are truly fulfilled and truly successful. Since having children, I? Since having children, I have changed far too many nappies. And I'm happy when? I'm happy when I'm with the family complete and that includes Emily but the kids yeah I'm happy and when I'm around mum and dad still to this day that makes me so happy can I now say I've been really enjoyed this yes you can because we are finishing I just really enjoyed it I just felt like it was just because we were able to talk it meant that I just felt like I could open up in a different way that I just probably didn't realise I needed so thank you well I hope you have a lovely weekend this weekend thank you so much you too thank you Peter that was really nice thank you that was really nice like really nice it actually really felt good