Siân Welby on problematic ’too posh to push’ stigma

0:01Coming up on Happy Mum, Happy Baby I'm such a people pleaser that I didn't want to upset the stylist. I remember just being like, I'm going to cry in a minute because I feel so disgusting. And I didn't want to hurt her feelings that I didn't like the trousers. So I ended up cracking and this was like two hours into this shoot. And I went, OK, I don't want you to think I don't like what you've got me because you've done a really good job and I'm pregnant. And she went, what?

0:26This poor woman. It felt like I was giving up and I thought I'd never back down. I never give up. I'm persistent in everything in life. Someone tells me I can't do it, I'll do it. And I've really felt like I hope people don't just see me as a quitter. Like, oh, she couldn't be bothered. It was too hard work. She went to bottle. It wasn't that. It was my baby's stressed and I'm stressed. And this is not good. Trying to put my clothes back on honestly almost broke me. And I was like, I can't get my pants on. And I've got these massive Bridget Jones pants. And I can't get my foot in. And the catheter's getting wrapped up in it.

1:01I must have been in there for ages. And I heard my other half go, Sian, you all right? And I went, no! And he opened the door and I was like, you've got to help me get dressed.

1:19Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum, Happy Baby, the podcast. Today's guest is a TV presenter. She's the co-host of Capital Breakfast. She's the mother of one little baby girl. It's Sian Welby. Hello. Hello! This is so cool being on your podcast. Is it? Yeah, you're a legend in the game. That's how I feel every time I'm in the studio with you, though. It's that gorgeous thing of kind of going into someone else's environment that they've kind of created and honed and, you know, I love that. Yeah, but it's awesome. Like, I've heard your voice in my ears many times, but now I'm like, oh, I'm in the mum club now.

1:51Yes! Like, this is weird for me. How old is Baba now? She's nine months as we speak. So I'm in quite a fun phase at the minute, actually, where she's really, like, funny and personality and not just sort of a potato lying there just kneading me to do everything for her. I'm enjoying it way more now. Because she starts giving you stuff back now. Yeah, I think that's what it is. Like at the beginning, it's just the weight of the pressure, I think, of keeping this thing alive that you've got no idea. There's no instruction manual and everyone's different and there's loads of different pressure. And I think you find your own rhythm.

2:22Even just as a couple and a family, you go, oh, OK, we've got a bit of a routine now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I listened to a podcast you did a couple of months ago when she was seven months and she wasn't sleeping at that point. Oh, that was hell. That was my lowest point. Really? Which again is quite surprising because people, I think, sometimes think the newborn bit is going to be hard and then it's actually going to get easier. But when there's a sleep regression going on. Yeah, and they're ill. So my experience is that actually the newborn phase was pretty amazing and she was, I don't know, like I really enjoyed it.

2:55I was off, it was sunny because she was born in June and it was the longest I've ever had off work. and maybe I was just really happy and, you know, really relaxed. But yeah, when she sort of hit three months, I think it was, or four months, she got ill, she was getting colds back to back, chest infections. She had broncholitis at one point. That was just hell and nobody had braced me for that. Like sucking snot out of her nose. I was like, what the? And every guidance goes against everything that you want to do. So if you're ill and you've got a blocked up nose, you want pillows to sit up. You can't put pillows in there.

3:30That's going to kill the baby. They're happiest when they're on you. Can't have them on you and you can't fall asleep. That's going to kill the baby. Everything had a side effect, but it will kill them. But if you leave them there, blocked up and they can't breathe, that will as well. So I remember thinking, I don't know what to do because nothing bar constantly holding it all night. And, you know, I honestly felt like, because I'm very, like, logical. I think that's how I like to feel, that I problem solve. I like to have a thing. Like, I know how to solve it. And also I wonder the fact that you do a lot of live stuff, you have to have that sort of brain where you're constantly problem solving and working through moments.

4:05Yeah, and so I think I found myself really frustrated that I couldn't problem solve because all the things that I felt like I was doing were wrong or I just was like, why? Why is she not getting better? And I mean, I don't know whether all babies are like this because I thought babies loved cow pollen and stuff like that and she hated all the medicine, didn't want any of it. I was sneaking it into milk and putting it like going whoop And then she was spitting it out the other side. I was doing all the syringes, then the spoons. I tried squeezing her cheeks. I did everything. And she didn't like medicine, so that didn't help.

4:36And then they sort of say, well, Calpol's only going to really do anything if we've got a temperature. A lot of the time we're going to the doctors. And her lungs were honestly almost rattling. They were so, you know, when she really was congested and like wheezing and stuff. And so it was bad. And then you're in that thing of going, well, I'm not an overreactor, but I don't know, at what point is this serious? and then you're sort of in two minds you start sort of doubting your own instinct probably a bit and you go should I take them to the hospital now or is this going to look over the top and you're constantly in that conversation like oh maybe we should now because I don't feel like.

5:09I would say that doesn't stop. I think even at this point you know my oldest is 11 there's still that thing now of is this a hospital trip is this a do we just sort of ride this or should I actually get some help for this yeah and I think that was again part of it you know you're deliriously tired and I went back to work after three months so I was also battling with my 4am breakfast show alarms and then some nights I hadn't really slept. On the sucking bogeys out, your partner got very, very poorly. Oh, yeah. Because we'd bought, I mean it's called the snot sucker so it sounds disgusting but that is what it's called and it's like a tube and it's got like a filter and you sort of suck up and it helps unblock their nose because they can't blow their nose and then over Christmas all the routine went out the window and we were at his mum's and then I was driving up to the Midlands to my mum's and I was delirious I think at this point because I hadn't stopped from work and then I was driving Christmas is always a lot of moving around for me like going to different houses and stuff and I was just exhausted and then she was just congested and we didn't have the snot sucker we didn't pack it and so he was like Sean what do we do and it was like 2am and we're both absolutely like at a death store Did you toss a coin to see who would suck the nostril?

6:24He just took it like a trooper. And he was like, Sian, I'll just have to do it. Because we'd heard people saying that they had done it. You hear of mums. I remember, weirdly, Amanda Holden was giving advice, saying, oh, yeah, you just sucked the snot out. She was not totally fine with it. And it's Amanda Holden. She can do it. Anyone can. She's the most glamorous person I know. I was like, OK, she can do it. So we were sort of discussing this. And my partner works with Amanda. And so he was like, maybe I'd just go for it. And I was going, I don't think I can. You know, I feel that's gross. And he literally did it.

6:52Suck the snot out from mouth to nose, like, you know, straight in. Got a mouthful of it, spat it out into a tissue. I was like, oh, my God, you hero. Like, you did it. We both said chuff with ourselves. Then he got so ill. Really? So ill off. And it has to be from that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, ear infection, throat infection. I don't know. He had the lot. It was bad. And so at one point, he was really ill. She was really ill. I was working mornings. I was like, oh, God, I don't want to go home. and it was just hard. It was just so hard. I was like, oh, this stage, please. And then you start getting quite bitter about, right, who's given her this?

7:29Who hugged her? Who picked her up? Because we had, like, over Christmas, obviously she's been passed around and we had parties and every time we're in big groups, I started getting nervous about, I can't get, she can't get ill again. You know, just when she's got over it, she was getting ill again. I guess if her immune system was low or already battling something, then anything else that's coming in, you know yeah has easy access but that's it and and so to be out of that phase and that took a few honestly I think we had two months of hell it was like December January was really rough really hard there wasn't a lot of sleep and then she was a good sleeper at the beginning she was kind of I found myself in quite a good rhythm with her when we first started out I think it actually helped as well I actually I did bottle feed which is another whole conversation One of the things I found from doing that is you can get into a routine quicker in a weird way because you sort of know exactly what they're having.

8:23And I had a little alarm saying, you know, do it every two hours. And I was getting into this little rhythm and she seemed to be reacting well and going to bed. And then, yeah, everything went out the window then when she got ill and then Christmas and timings. And then she just she went from being a fairly good sleeper, doing long chunks to being like every two hours or every three hours getting up. And how is it now? I've got a pro in. Really? Yes, thank you, Joel Domit, who was my oracle, right? We all need an oracle. Who knew it would be Joel? Joel Domit was my hero because Joel and Hannah were a year ahead of me.

8:56I think when I found out I was pregnant, they literally just had their baby. So it was always like, oh, Joel, I can ask him. He's a year ahead. And I messaged him at one point and said, how? How do you do this sleeping? What did you do? He was like, I know a woman. She's amazing. This sleep nanny. He was like, just send her a message. And I messaged her. And I tell you now, it's changed my life. Really? Yeah, and I think if you are desperate and you can afford to do it, because it's not ridiculous amounts of money, but it's a lot, but it was the best money I'd spent. But sleep deprivation is one of the worst things.

9:30To start the day feeling already so depleted, it's awful. Yeah, and then everything piles on top, doesn't it, when you're tired. And so getting that sleep back, and all she did was tweak my routine. She just tweaked it so beautifully. Like she listened to what I was doing. And one of the things I can pass on that I didn't realise, but actually Ruby, my daughter, wasn't getting enough day sleep, which feels counterintuitive, doesn't it? Because part of you thinking, oh, don't give her too many naps in the day. She won't sleep at night. But then that can almost make them overstimulated, overtired, can't it?

10:01Yeah. Which I'm now learning. So I didn't realise that. And so by having better, more rigid timing, doing a nap at nine on the dot and then doing a nap at one o 'clock and sort of setting those parameters that, yep, she needs to sleep till three and all this. After a day of following her new routine, she slept for 12 hours. And she slept for 12 hours ever since. Ever since. Oh my gosh. So I think she's amazing. My eldest two, they would only sleep for their daytime naps. It was literally half an hour on the dot. Wow. Both of them. It's mad. Half an hour on the dot. So when Max came along and he was suddenly sleeping two and a half hours, I was like, oh my God, what is this?

10:40Yeah. Totally different. And this is it. and I'm sure it will probably change and maybe she'll start waking up sooner. I don't really know, but it changed my life just having this. It was like just having someone who had the rule book or the answers and it was like, oh, thank you because I needed the cheat codes. I just needed them and it came at the right time and I got my life back a bit. And okay, so at the minute, yes, we are a bit of a slave to the naps. And because she said, if you can... But it's short-lived. You know, soon that will go. And I think one of the things that really did help was having a routine of it being in the cot and being in a dark room and just getting all those cues.

11:15Whereas we were trying to do it in the push chair and then sometimes it was in the bedroom. It was just different every time. So just, she said to me, it can take 10 days, but I'll get asleep in 12 hours. And it took one day. So I was like, okay, this is the best money I've ever spent. And so if you can do that, and if you are at like on the brink of exhaustion, you know, even if someone can help you out, even if you get that money towards it as a present, And I just recommend it because it did change my life. I like that. Yeah. That's, you know, if you think about all the stuff you get when you have a newborn, actually, if everyone could just kind of club together and get something like that.

11:48Yeah. That's a beautiful gift. It's priceless in some ways your sleep and you realise it. You get to a stage where you would pay anything. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to me about your childhood. Where did you grow up? What was your childhood like? I grew up in the Midlands in Nottinghamshire, but a tiny little village. Like I literally, my neighbours were cows. and had a big garden but very working class family. My dad built the house. No way. Yeah. And he always brags about him. You know, he sold his car and everything to build the house and he gradually did it. And so while he was building it, we were living like in a static caravan at the end of the garden and then he built this house, which actually looks quite impressive now as you drive up the drive.

12:29But he did it, you know, for 50 grand. Wow. And I was very much a tomboy climbing trees, building deniers. Do you have siblings? I've got a sister. Okay. A younger sister, a year and a half younger, called Martine. And we are a year and a half between us. So we got to the point where we're like twins. As in we were very much, did everything together, played outside all day long. And I always joke, I had such boomer parenting. You know, as in there were no health and safety. My dad had this digger and we saw it as like Alton Towers, right? We would get into the digger. He would raise it up and we'd go, tear pit, tear pit and he'd start tipping this digger 12 foot in the air or whatever back and we'd be holding on just going yeah you look back at that and go that wasn't safe we were probably only five what was your mum like?

13:22I don't know did she just kind of let all this stuff happen it's the man that she fell in love with I'm sure she you know I think that's it they were both very chilled very relaxed and yeah she probably was having a heart attack but she always was like oh they'll be alright and we were having the best time ever I look back at that and go, wow. I just love the idea of your mum being like, oh, Ian. Yeah, I'm passing Ian. What are you like? But yeah, that was honestly, my childhood was very, almost rough and ready in that way. It was like, get out, very much like be independent. My dad would always, he's such a handyman, you know, he'd be giving me a hammer and get me to hold the torch for him.

13:54I mended stuff. So I was like his apprentice. Yeah. Yeah. The four of you super close. Yeah. Yeah. Really close. My dad, bless him, has got Alzheimer's. but he has good days and bad days, but he has more good days and he still remembers me, knows it's me and he's finally learning Ruby. That took ages for that to sink in for him. Yeah. Because for ages... Well, I guess it has to go to the long-term memory, right? Exactly right. So obviously you have to almost repeat stuff until it's become long-term because it took him ages to even remember she's a girl, which sounds so simple, like such a small thing, but he'd go, oh, look at him and I'd be thinking, oh, do I correct him?

14:30And so you just sort of let it go a little bit. How old were you when he was diagnosed? He was diagnosed late, which I think a lot of people actually are. You think your parents or whoever it is, your grandparent or partner, they just seem forgetful for a while and you sort of put it off. He got diagnosed almost like sort of COVID time, 2020. Really? Yeah, my dad's in his 80s, by the way. So we were like, he was driving us mad. And then we're like, oh, OK, Dad, you've got Alzheimer's. I felt a bit guilt. I was like, God, I used to get so annoyed at him. I'm like, Dad, what I've told you. Or like, where have you put the keys?

15:01Like the running joke in my house was, where's dad put the keys? Right. Because it's stuff like that. But anyway, so he really got like officially diagnosed during lockdown. And then a lot of things made sense then. We're like, oh, OK. But yeah, so he's been amazing. And when he's with Ruby, when he's around kids, he comes to life. Really? And he immediately gets stuck in. You know, he's in his 80s. He's so like skinny and bony. And then he's on the floor and not hands and knees getting stuck in. You're like, oh, my God, dad, you don't need to get down there and do that. But he's, yeah, he's so hands on.

15:31I love that. It's absolutely gorgeous. So did you always know that you wanted to be a mum? I don't know the answer to that. I've always loved kids. I've always been Auntie Sian to everyone's kids. Mates. I've had cousins. I've always been the entertainer, the one that all the kids, I get lumbered with them at every party. And I'm like, hey, how come you're all having a tequila and a Prosecco? I'm not the kids' entertainer. Yeah, and I'm literally the clown in the corner, like covered in mud and cake and whatever. But yeah, that's always been my role. And so weirdly, I started thinking, because I'm in my late 30s now, and so it's like, I remember thinking, do I have the energy?

16:10Can I, I've done all this for everyone else's kids. Yeah, yeah. Will I be able to redo this for my own? Because like, and I also thought, I'm in London. I'm in this mad job that's got no routine. And also, it feels like over the last few years, like your career has taken a massive shift. you've got the this morning job and all that stuff. So is that also part of it? Like when you've been beavering away for so long and actually you're getting these opportunities, it's very hard to then kind of go, shall we add this other thing into the mix? It's hard to know how that's going to affect stuff. Yeah, exactly.

16:43I spent most of my life thinking, how on earth could I have kids in my job or in my situation? I say it to my mum all the time. I was like, oh, well, I don't know how I would. How would I fit this in? How would I do it responsibly? you know you don't want to not be there and that's the thing because I do I love kids so I don't actually want to be hands-off I want to be hands-on but how do I be hands-on with that and in a career where I've had to always say yes and put work first all the time be a bit of a yes woman you know say okay I'll do this at the drop of a hat and I'll cover for this person and yes I'll cancel my holiday to do this I've spent a lot of my life doing that so suddenly you go oh okay this will mean I've got to have some boundaries and actually balance my work and home life out probably something that I needed to do in reality I think I needed a bit of a reality check in terms of I did always put work first yeah and I think everything else was neglected a bit and so it's given it's my new chapter which I I don't know I think I did feel just ready when it happened really yeah because I'd worked up to a point where I thought everyone knows me now as it as in they know I'm a hard worker.

17:50They know that I'll come back and be on it. And I can't explain it, but I sort of knew I'd set up the foundations. A bit like when you, in any job, when you first start a job, you feel like, oh, no one knows actually what I'm like. And that, you know, that I am trustworthy. You feel like you've got to prove yourself in some way. Prove yourself, yes. And I felt like I'd kind of proven myself, look, I can do this, I can do that. When I got that first this morning cover with Dermot, I knew I was pregnant, but didn't tell anyone. Really? Yeah, because again, slightly in the back of my mind, I was like, well, if I tell them I'm pregnant, will this put them off getting me in again?

18:26And will they think, well, she's going to be off for ages? Oh, well, actually, maybe we don't want to train her up to like be one of the team and then for her to go. Yeah, which I'm sure so many women must feel in any job, especially if they're starting a new one. I bet they're thinking, I've just got this new job and I can't tell them that I'm pregnant. and it's the fear that you're going to be immediately judged or dropped or they'll go, well, why didn't you tell us? Because that's really inconvenient for us now. You know what I mean? You feel like that and you're like, what the hell am I doing?

18:55This is so natural. It's so normal. Why am I feeling so bad about it and so on the back foot about it? So how pregnant were you when you did this one? It was 20 weeks. No! Yeah. How did you keep a 20-week bump secret? Well, I remember, honestly, the stylist was like, she went, oh, these have come a bit small, these trousers. And she was cut. One of my, like, suits, I wore this, like, pink suit on one of the days and the back is cut out. She cut the back, she went, oh, it's a bit tight. And I was like, oh, I don't know why. And I was just... Did you not tell anyone? Did you tell Demet? No. No, I didn't tell anybody.

19:27Only my other half at this point knew and maybe a handful of others. I think my parents, well, yes, because it was the start of the year. So over Christmas I told family. Oh, OK. But no one else. And that's quite nice to be pregnant that time of year. You can kind of, you know... Yeah, because you're in baggy stuff, aren't you? Jumpers. And it was and a lot of the clothes I wore that week were actually very forgiving. And like it was it was a lot of blazers and, you know, things that really did. I was I was lucky in some ways. I think I had quite a high up bump or I can't remember which way around it was, but it just meant that I actually could conceal it quite well.

19:58Yeah. And then I did. The worst thing actually was straight after doing that week of this morning, I was asked to a photo shoot. And that's where it really was stressful because I still hadn't publicly said anything. and I wanted that 20 week scan. Yeah. But it was booked in for the week, like 21 weeks I was doing this morning. Yeah. So I was like, I just want that scan because I don't want it all to come out. What if something happens? I don't know. And you feel a bit nervous, don't you, till you get a scan. So I did this photo shoot. Oh God. It's the most, you can't breathe in a baby bump. You can't.

20:30You can't. But I tried. Oh, oh God damn it. I tried. I was like, I will. And this was the other thing. I hadn't worked with any of the people. So it was one of those shoots where you didn't have a say on your team. You turn up on the day and it's a different team. Yeah, it was a new stylist, makeup, hair, didn't know the photographer, didn't know anybody. And I thought, I can't tell all these strangers. And also it was because it was for a paper, like a newspaper. So it would have been, gosh, of all the people you can't tell first, it would have been them. So I was thinking, oh my God, what am I going to do?

21:00So I'm doing all these poses and I'm putting my arm. Like if he looked, if I found this photo shoot, you'd see my arm is doing, my leg's going back. I'm twisting. She's got all the angles. All the angles. And I just about was getting away with it at this point because I really hadn't popped out at this point yet. Also, I think when you haven't told people, you do sort of hold it slightly differently as well. Maybe you do. Yeah, I don't know. I had quite a small bump and it didn't really pop till later. So it was doable. But I remember putting on this pair of gold trousers, right? And I literally felt like Humpty Dumpty in them.

21:36I was like, oh. and I'm such a people pleaser that I didn't want to upset the stylist. And I thought she's done such a good job and everything. And I remember just being like, I'm going to cry in a minute because I feel so disgusting. And it's all in your own head, isn't it? But I did. I just felt gross. I didn't feel like me in it. And I was like, oh, what do I do? And I didn't want to hurt her feelings that I didn't like the trousers. So I ended up cracking and this was like two hours into this shoot. And I went, okay, this is a big, I said, this is a massive overshare. I said, but I don't want you to think I don't like what you've got me because you've done a really good job and I'm pregnant.

22:10And she went, what?

22:14This poor woman was the first stranger I'd told. And she was like, oh, oh, oh, God. Oh, that's OK. And then she felt, I think she felt the pressure. I said, I don't want to tell anybody. And please don't say anything. She's like, OK, don't worry. I was like, so what else have you got? And we went through and found stuff. And she was, you know, she was lovely. And actually, you know, probably I shouldn't have worried so much. But then the next week I got the scan. Yeah, but it's like you say, there's certain things that we get in our heads and there's certain moments that we sort of wait for and it's all such a personal thing.

22:42And if you've held off telling certain people, you know, there's a variety of reasons. You kind of don't want to let slip to someone who doesn't need to know. Well, yeah, because I hadn't told my bosses yet. I hadn't told the ITV bosses. I hadn't told the capital bosses. And especially at that time when there was so much noise, we won't go into the stuff, but there was so much noise around this morning. Exactly. That would have been a massive story. It would have. And I think all of that was playing on my mind. It was like biggest career moment for me. So much pressure. Didn't want to add in the mix.

23:11Oh, and by the way, I'm pregnant. And I also didn't want that to overshadow. I just wanted to do... The actual work that you were doing. Yeah. I just wanted to almost go, meet Sian. This is me. You don't need any of the other stuff. I just want to just do a... Try and do the best job I can do. And hopefully, you know, impress the bosses and show them that I could do it. Yeah. And that was all I cared about at that point. And so many other stresses were in my head. So it was a wild time, that. Talk me through actually finding out you were pregnant. What was that like? Well, I was dressed as a robot at the time.

23:47Why? Because it was Halloween, right? And I was painted in silver. At what point did you go, I'm dressed as a robot? I should probably do a pregnancy test now. I shall tell you when. Because I was about to go to a massive Halloween party, right? Which I would have, Shandy Sharn is one of my nicknames. I would have gone for it. And I was thinking of having a big night out. And my period was a bit late, if I remember rightly. And I thought, do you know what? We're about to have a massive night out for Halloween. Huge fancy dress party. All my mates were going. And I was like, do you know what I should do?

24:21I should just do a pregnancy test. Just to make sure. Just to make sure. So I've got no guilt about going out and drinking and having a great time. I've been there. So I literally just did it to prove I wasn't. And then I bloody was. And I was like, oh, no. And it was like a panic of going, I better do another one. But I'm silver now. What's going on? Honestly, I was silver hair, silver face, had like a weird jumpsuit type thing on. I hope you've got a photo of this moment. I do. Because me and my other half were laughing at it going, these are the pictures and we'll always remember that this is when we found out.

24:53And I remember getting the one, not just, I didn't want the one that had a line or a no line. I don't agree with those. Because it's so confusing anyway. So I wanted it saying pregnant, not pregnant, right? Full proof. Yeah. And it not only said pregnant, but it said like plus three weeks. And I thought, oh, I really am. Wow, Sian. So it was, I was like. So pregnant. Yeah, I was. Because that's like the two weeks before, that's crazy. Yeah. So I remember looking at that and going, oh, oh, I really am pregnant. Like this isn't just like faint line on a thing. This is saying you're three plus weeks.

25:25Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then obviously I didn't drink it all that night. and it was so, like everyone was trying to buy me shots and whatever and I was like, oh, I'm all right. Our Christmas work do for Capital was one of the hardest and I was like Mrs Doubtfire. So we were upstairs in a cocktail bar and I would ask for like, they'd say, oh, Sean, what are you having? And I'd go, oh, I'll have the espresso martini, please, right? But without the caffeine and without the shot. Yeah, so I'd say it and then the waiter went back and I went, oh, I'm just going to go to the loo. Cue me running down the stairs, running to the bar and going, you know that order that you just did with the espresso martini, I'm pregnant, but I can't tell anyone, I'm not drinking.

25:56Can you make it look like one but not be one? And I was doing that all night. Because I knew otherwise they'd know. That is bonkers. Yeah. So I was changing all my drinks all night and making them into something fake that looked like a cocktail. Were you just relieved when it was January and everyone was in dry January? Oh, dry Jan was my saviour. I was like, thank God, because the stress of that. Is dry Jan something that you normally do anyway? Have you ever partaken? I have. I've done it once. In fact, I always say I've done it really well once and now you're saying it. is because I was pregnant.

26:29I'm just going to say, I've actually done it. Yeah, there's memories of everyone going, yeah, no, I'm doing dry down, dry down. Yeah, I've sort of half done it before. Okay, so you've failed it before. Yeah, yeah, failed it many times. I thought I'd hate being pregnant, actually, because I work with boys and, you know, a very male industry. And I don't know, I can't explain it, but I just thought I'd feel almost embarrassed. Like, girls understand it. And I thought that I'd be there going, I had visions of like, you know, being embarrassed, saying I need to go to the loo every five minutes or I don't know what I thought.

27:00I thought I might swell up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, the cameras in Capital are the most unforgiving, close-up. What in the changing room mirrors are those cameras? Because they zoom in. They don't give you any nice lighting or anything like that either. No, and your whole face fills that video. They make the most of your face. My face is the full triangle, triangle, rectangle. angle and I'm like can you please zoom out a little bit so it's not all my face and chin whatever angle it's the bad one right and so I was at visions of me swelling even bigger and then at the time on TikTok there was a huge thing about pregnancy nose where your nose goes double the size have you heard of this no oh I've sent you down a wormhole later later you will be googling pregnancy nose and so many girls like everyone's like laughing about it like a tongue in cheek but for some people your nose does go bigger so you're just worried about your nose i just was everything i thought i'm gonna just be paranoid and self-conscious and i'll be ill and i'll i had all these thoughts and it ended up being nothing like that at all i really enjoyed it everyone was brilliant about it and i felt myself and i actually just i just got on with it i really enjoyed it how was it when you finally shared the news oh it was lovely and everyone was just amazing and my team cried and the boys were crying oh i saw the video of you sharing it with they are such genuinely good friends and they they are like having brothers and so and my team as well like all the producers and stuff like the exec producer was there crying like because they they've known me a long time yeah and so that was lovely and this morning were brilliant and dermot and was giving me advice and kat deely gives me advice everyone's like brilliant with me and sort of always asking after ruby and like so the whole thing for me was so much nicer and better than I could have expected.

28:47Despite some of the early like stressors, actually the whole thing, especially once it was out there, it was great. Having that news received so warmly, that must have been a massive weight. Well, yeah, because you just don't want, you know, I don't know, you've got it in your head how a boss is going to react. You're sort of expecting a sigh and like a, right, how long are you going to be off then? That's how you imagine it. It wasn't like that. They were like, Sian, how much time do you need? Only come back when you're ready. This is fantastic. We are so behind you and supportive. and it was my decision I was like I this was the other hard thing because we'd just launched that new breakfast show with Jordan and I was kind of like itching to get back into it as well because I wanted to establish this show yeah I think I had the work brain of you can't let that go sadly like you I'll always have like a sort of working brain that wants to I was like oh I don't want to be off that show for too long because it will find a rhythm without me and I want to be in it and I also I'd never had that much time off and I was like you know from pot washing at say 14 I don't think I'd have really ever stopped working so I was like having three months off for me felt long.

29:51And does that three months something that you set in your brain before you'd given birth? Yeah I really had I really had it in my mind I'm going to come back in September it was like this thought of um new year new term new school year yeah and I was like September's when I'm going to come back and that's and I thought unless I'm really struggling or we can't make that work I'll I'll do September. And I was just so lucky that my other half was willing and able to take shared parental leave. And so he took the rest of it. I guess it must help that you're both at Global. Do you know what I mean?

30:21Yes. So they know exactly what's going on. Exactly. So it was very much like Jake was like, yeah, I'll step in after three months. And so I knew he was with her. Yeah. And that was a nice feeling. And he got that time with her, which made him brilliant. How did you feel heading towards a birth? I was very blasé up until like two weeks before I think it was okay had you not given it much thought before then I just was very I'm very chilled right maybe too chilled but I was like I had this thing oh I'm gonna have a water birth and I was like oh it'll all be fine and I'll just have a water birth and I can imagine it being like being in a jacuzzi had you had you gone down the hypnobirthing route or anything like that not really looked into things too much no not really and I had a really nice midwife actually.

31:04We changed hospitals because the first place I went, I felt like I really was just a number. And there was a few, you can choose, can't you? Whichever one's nearest to you. And I was in the middle of a few. So after a while of feeling a bit like, just a bit, not neglected, but I just felt like the first place, I did just feel like a number and it was like transactional. And so I was like, I'm going to try a different hospital and I changed hospitals and then it was a totally different experience. Really? Yeah. And it's hard to know why that happens, but it just did. And they were just lovely. and I saw the same woman every time and that changed it for me.

31:34So I was very chilled. She was like, yeah, we'll show you the birthing pool and this is where you'll be and all this. And then I went for like a checkup and the bump hadn't really grown much since the last checkup. Right. She was like, oh, it's not really grown. Have you felt kicks and stuff? I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's moving loads. But then they sort of instilled this fear like, oh, okay, they think something's wrong here. Like, why isn't she grown? Right. I felt relaxed because I sort of thought, well, I felt like I knew in myself it was okay. Yeah. And she was moving loads at night at the same sort of times.

32:04Don't you get used to when they move, don't you, and what positions? But then the week later, she measured me again, and it hadn't grown again, so they were like, I think we might have to induce you because I don't know why she's not growing. And then there was talk of the placenta being almost like past its best. Right. Almost like, I can't remember what they call that. How many weeks were you at this point? I was four days overdue. Okay. So, yeah, so in the run-up to that, there was just a lot more checks and a lot more like, why hasn't the bubble changed? And they were sort of monitoring a bit more.

32:33And then, yeah, it went four days overdue and they were like, right, we just think we're going to induce you. And then I was nervous about that because people don't really talk about being induced, but it can kind of, there's two different options. One form of being induced means that it can be slow, doesn't it? Like a slower process. So you really don't know how long it's going to take. And another one can be way quicker. But because of that, your body's not really ready. And so all of that. It can feel really intense. Yes. and that's what I was like, oh God, okay. So I was sort of saying, well, which one do you recommend?

33:02I left that question. Everyone's like, no, I don't know. It's up to you. I know, but I want to know you. Yeah, what do you think I should do? I was like, you're the expert. Guide me. Take this decision away. Yeah, and you do feel like that. Is it the pasta or the pizza? I don't know. Yeah, that's how I felt. I was like, tell me.

33:23That was all going to happen and then they did that whole heart rate thing where... Yes, they monitor you. They monitor you and monitor the baby's heart rate. And at the time, the heart rate was a bit, I don't know, I don't know whether it was like dipping in and out or it was dropping. And they were a bit worried that she wouldn't, they were convinced that she was really tiny because the bump hadn't grown. Yeah. And then they started freaking me out saying like her legs are really long, but her body's really short. And I was thinking, wait, what is all this stuff? What am I giving birth to? What the fuck is the sort of stalk is coming out of me?

33:53I was like, what? I was like, okay. all this stuff I wasn't worried about it but they were like okay they kept saying stuff and they're like oh we don't think she's going to like the trauma of a vaginal birth because her heart rate's going every time you have a I was having very mini contractions you know like the early ones yeah yeah yeah I couldn't feel them right but they were just showing up on the monitor yeah and every time her heart rate was dropping so they're like oh I don't think she's going to like this I also had it in my head from one of those 4D scans I did that it looked like the umbilical cord was around her neck and I was convinced that it was and I thought oh imagine if every time something's moving it's tightening or I mean I don't know if that's the case but it was in my mind a little bit because it was on the scan that the umbilical cord was right around the neck so then I started thinking oh god okay so when they said I think you might be better having a c-section I was very at peace with it and I was like well what is that the safest thing to do and they're like yeah I was like it's safest for the baby they're like absolutely because we're all going to be there and she won't have the trauma of having to, you know, sort of come out and whatever.

34:55So then I was like, okay, cool, let's do it. That's lovely to hear you sound so at peace with that decision. Yeah. Because I feel like some people when they get in their heads about what their plan is, for it to suddenly go a different way can be quite heavy. Yeah, and I do get that because I think people do have things in their mind. I think just luckily for me, just the way my brain works, I'm quite at peace with quick decisions and things changing last minute. I've got very adaptive to things going wrong or something changing last minute and having to be calm and dealing with it. And so in that circumstance, I was quite relaxed about it.

35:31I understand why you wouldn't be and why you'd be freaking out. But also I just think there's part of me that just goes, you just want your baby to be safe. And there's also a part of you that's like, I'd like to not die in the process as well. You know, there's all that in your head, isn't there? Where you just go, whatever's the safest, whatever's the best thing to happen right now, I will do. What was it like going into theatre? I did get nervous at that point. And again, I was trying to not be. But I was a bit terrified. It's an operating theatre. It's not a place that you go to frequently.

36:02No. And because it's not planned, they call it like an emergency C-section. The word emergency is already, yeah. It's kind of in your head. And you do it. It's like a 15-minute turnaround. And 15 minutes before, you're sort of signing your life away on a piece of paper because they have to talk through all the risks. So because of that, it's a slightly higher stressful situation, even when you are someone like me that is generally quite chilled. You're a solutions, not problems type of person. Yeah, yeah. And so I try to always look at the positives. But obviously, even then, you have all the thoughts and you're going, well, God, I've got to have this, you know, something injected into my spine and I'm going to be paralysed from the waist down or whatever.

36:39And all these things were in my head. And then just typical, I had gone, this is a really random side note, but this is how my brain was working. I like it. I'd gone to see this Jackass show. Do you remember Steve-O from Jackass? And he did a live show in a theatre and I went to watch it. And one of the stunts he did was have an epidural and try and run a race to see how far he could get before his legs went, right? And I always remember... So in my head was this scene of Steve-O being told by a doctor in America, OK, we're going to do this. This is really high risk. Most doctors are turned down doing this stunt and this one guy found someone that did it and they injected him and they said, by the way, if you start feeling numb from the lungs upwards, you need to tell me because then everything will start getting paralysed.

37:25As in, your lungs will stop breathing because everything will stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was in my head a little bit of going, I hadn't planned this. So you're not seeing Steve-O running whilst you're getting your upper drawer. You're worried about your lungs. Yeah, I'm thinking, I don't want to be a Jack Aston right now. And I was imagining, so as I lied down, I started feeling a bit paranoid that I was feeling a bit numb higher up. And then I started feeling like I couldn't feel my hands. And I don't know for sure if that was just me being nervous. But I was sort of lying there on the theatre table with my hands up here.

37:56And I was sort of saying to Jake, my other half, I was like, and I was shivering loads as well. I don't know if that was nerves or adrenaline. I was shivering and I couldn't control it. And he was like, you're all right. I was like, I just don't know if I can feel my hands. And I'm just a bit worried. And I'm just too British or too polite. I didn't want to say anything because I felt stupid. and luckily he's way more confident cockney. Yeah. I'm like this polite Midlander and he's like, right, she's saying she can't feel her hands like this and he was just vocal about it and they literally tipped my chair up.

38:29Really? Yeah, and I presume maybe it was happening. I don't know, but I just remember they tilted me up and then I could feel everything and I felt all calm again. But it could have been that they did that because I don't know the reason. It might be that nothing was going wrong and they just did it to make me feel at ease. Whatever it was, even if it was psychological, I just was like, okay, I'm good now and I calm down again and then just had to sort of deep breathe and get on with it. But I was nervous, I really was, and I don't like admitting to be nervous. Really? Yeah, in a way, because I really wanted just to be like, I don't know, I can't explain it.

39:05I suppose you put pressure on yourself handling these situations. Also, you strike me as a very strong, independent woman who just gets on with stuff. and, you know, to admit to that vulnerability might feel a little bit alien to you to kind of even acknowledge that that's a thing. Maybe it was. I didn't want to feel... I don't like sort of thinking, I thought it's not about me, it's about this. And I'm like, why are you getting all nervous? And just calm down, Sean, like relax, like you're in the best hands. And I kept having to tell myself, look, you're surrounded by experts. If anything went wrong, you're in the best place.

39:34And again, that's something that I would say, like I don't want to freak anyone out about having a C-section because actually, genuinely, you are in the safest place. If this happens to you, there's doctors around that have done it a million and one times and everyone's there and they're all laughing and joking and that is what relaxes you. Really? Yeah, because they're so relaxed. They've seen this a million and one times. You're not doing something alien to them. Yeah. And then, again, once my brain sort of rationalised and went, they're not panicking, are there? There's no alarms going off.

40:04They're all smiling. It's clearly fine. Yeah. And that's what you have to tell yourself. Like, it's fine. But it's sometimes seen as the easy option, isn't it? I don't know where that's come from. I don't know. No woman would ever say that. They really wouldn't. So I don't know if it's just a media term. Well, it's the whole too posh to push thing. Too posh to push. Which, you know, I've always connected to Victoria Beckham, but maybe it's not even... You know what? Maybe it came from that. And it is. It's that stigma. Yeah. And that, it's just because she's posh by itself. How sad is that? You're so right.

40:35That's probably when I first ever heard that term. Yeah, yeah. And it's not, it's just really not the case. I really am somebody that didn't plan to do that at all and was very low-key about how I gave birth. I was like, if it's in the pool, great, but if it ends up being on the bed or if I have to have an epidural, fine, but if I don't call and I was very open-minded. I think that one phrase probably impacts so many women when it comes to coming to terms with the fact that their birth didn't go in a certain way that they had planned, the fact that they ended up going down that route. You know, if that wasn't there, I think more women would be just accepting of the fact that that was the way that their baby had to be born.

41:14Yeah, honestly, anyone that is listening that feels like that, I just want to say to you, please, just don't just ignore any of that stuff. Yeah. None of it matters. You start to realise that honestly, it's about getting a healthy baby. It's about you surviving. You don't want to put anything at risk. you're having a major thing happen to you, whether it's giving birth naturally, whether it's a C-section, whatever it is, it's risky both sides, isn't it? Don't worry about that. Don't panic about it. And if for some reason you're given the option of it, even before you get to that point, if someone's recommending that for you and your body, then then do it because you want to be in the best headspace as well.

41:50And this is the other thing that I think is really overlooked is just the mental health of a woman. pre-birth and post-birth. Yeah. And the insane pressure, I'm going to say, to breastfeed. Yeah. I wanted to so badly. Really? As in my sister's done it. So I've got, I've got, I had no, do you know what, I had no preference if I'm being honest either way, but I really wanted to be able to do it because I loved the idea of being able to breastfeed. And I just could not get Ruby to latch. Yeah. And I'm talking, I tried all different, different positions. Positions. Yeah. And midwives were helping me.

42:26And I remember even having a home visit and saying, what am I doing wrong? And they were like, honestly, we can't correct anything you're doing. She just couldn't latch onto my nipple, right? And at one point, I swear to God, I was hunched over on the bed. It was 5am. I was dangling my tit into this baby's mouth. I was just, Annie, like, come on! Like a nudger, like, please! I was just trying, because I tried every technique. And I was literally just hovering like, please. And I was so tired and so uncomfortable. was like please just just take it and she wasn't and um a little like face pulled around the curtain and the midwife was like you all right and I went oh god and it was 5am I was like no I really am not all right and she said what's up I was like I just I said I've tried everything I was like she's just she's crying non-stop and she's hungry and I can't breastfeed and she went look it wouldn't do any harm if she had a bit of formula have you got any and I went yes I said I forgot I've got some so I've actually got some in my bag it was like that ready-made stuff yeah but it needs warming up I was like oh is there any way you could warm this up for me she went um uh I could do and I was like oh if you could you know I'm thinking I'm here with my tit dangling into this baby's mouth I've got a c-section I've got this bag hanging up but you know a catheter I was like I said if you could help I said I'd be so grateful I was like I just need it warming up and she went oh okay so she's sort of going in my bag and I said there's that little kitchen isn't there you can warm it off right she went off she comes back warms it up i'm like oh and she pans it over i was like oh thank you so much for doing that i said you are a godsend so i'm feeding ruby and it was the first time that i genuinely said i had two hours sleep after that because ruby settled down she went to sleep and i i slept next day jake comes back because jake had jake had been awake for like 72 hours that's why he wasn't there by the way so he and he didn't i said don't sleep in this chair that's been it so jake went home he comes back the next day and he said how did last night go and i said oh god it was awful i said but this midwife oh she was an absolute godsend And she warmed up some formula in the middle of the night.

44:21He went, oh, right. I said, yeah, her there. And he went, her? I was like, yeah, that midwife there. He went, the one in the Tigger pyjamas. And I went, what? He went, Sian, that's one of the mums you've spoken to her. I was like, what? She was one of the new mums. I'd made her warm up my milk at 5am. She was too polite. She was only checking on me because she'd probably hear the baby crying. I was mortified. Look, if it makes you feel any better, I'm sure if another woman was in that position, you would have gone in there and you wouldn't have thought, you would have been like, all right, but happy that you could help.

45:00I'm sure she was happy and she was dressed as Tigger. She's fine. She's fine. I mean, what a hero, what a legend that woman was. I'm surprised you haven't done a hunt to try and find her. Honestly, I've joked about, like, I need to find this woman, but I don't even know how I would go about finding her. You're on Capital Breakfast. I feel like that's a pretty good way to, you know, I see the segment happening already. Well, we did joke about it. And I remember her so well because she was on her second baby and I think that's why. You know, like mum of the second baby. She knew I was a new mum and she just stuck her head around to sort of go, are you all right?

45:35But because I was delirious, I presume that was the midwife. And so, you know, if I'd have actually looked at her, like Jake afterwards was like, Sian, she had compression socks on, she's got Tigger pajamas, Like all this stuff, all the clues were there. It could have been more like a patient if she tried. The clues were there, Giovanna, and I didn't notice. And so it's ridiculous because I was so embarrassed. Luckily, before that lady left, I did say to her, I am so sorry. And she was like, what? I was like, I thought you were... And I explained to her, thank God, because I thought otherwise she's going to go home and say, right, there's this right bitch in the...

46:06That's how I did it, me! That one of this morning. She was opposite me and made me warm and milk, but I felt I was mortified. But those four days felt like the longest, most stressful time for me. You've got your boobs hanging out. You feel like you've just got udders. They're just hanging out. You've got this contraption on. You're trying to breastfeed and maybe pump at the same time. And then you're trying to get ahead of yourself and be organised. Plus the fact that you are recovering from major surgery. You are not sleeping. Yeah. You know, and that's off the back of being in labour and growing a human for nine months that there's so much stacked against you in that moment.

46:48Not against you, but there's so much that's happened. You're on the back foot. You're not fighting fit. You're not like an Olympian ready to take. Well, you think about raising a baby. You want to be almost the most fighting fit you've ever been. And yet you're at your worst. You're the most tired. You've maybe had surgery. And then on top of that, I really did, I will admit, feel a bit of pressure to breastfeed. Where did that pressure come from? It did come from some midwives. Really? Yeah, not all of them. And I don't think it was even, I'm not angry. It's just more, and I understand why, obviously, if you can and if it comes naturally, it's wonderful.

47:25And I've got no preference. Do whatever you need to do. And it's wonderful if you can breastfeed. And obviously, that's so good for your baby because it's coming from you. But also, don't beat yourself up if it's not working. And I remember a midwife saying to me, she was like, Sian, she was like, we wouldn't even be able to recommend formula if we didn't think it had the right stuff in it for babies. She was like, so please don't get bogged down by this. And I remember thinking, it's true. It wouldn't be able to exist if it was that bad. There's no way it could even exist. We would find different ways, wouldn't we?

48:00There'd be that you'd be buying breast milk from other mothers or whatever. There would be different systems. and I did find that there is such a stigma and yet because I'm, again, I'm very much just decisive and four days in went, I'm going to make a decision here because this is getting mad. I'm going to end up not being able to breastfeed but I'm going to be pumping all day long and when they're newborn, the speed in which you're doing the pump versus how quick they need to feed, you're in a never-ending cycle, aren't you? It's non-stop. and if you are in this lovely position where they just latch and it's just so natural, it happens.

48:37I'm so, you know, it's wonderful. I'm so glad for you if that can happen. But if it can't, don't feel bad about it. Like genuinely don't. It doesn't matter. The overwhelming feeling that I wanted to feed Ruby overpowered how. It was so primal. I just wanted her to be happy and fed. And the second she had that bottle, she was so content and then I felt really relaxed because she was being fed. Was it a really hard point getting to that bit that making that decision was it was it a relief did you feel like anxious about it my honest my honest thing I would say is I just never give up on stuff and it felt like I was giving up and I thought I'd never back down I never give up I'm persistent in everything in life someone tells me I can't do it I'll do it you know I left a tiny town and came to London yes and I and I've really felt like I hope people don't just see me as a quitter like oh she couldn't be bothered it was too hard work she went to bottle it wasn't that it was my baby stressed and I'm stressed and this is not good and the second I'm feeding her she's not stressed anymore and I'm not and now she's sleeping and now we're in a routine and now I know how much she's had and then suddenly I was part of little like mum groups and actually I was in that group at the time the only one bottle feeding and it was interesting because it felt like this taboo where after after like we'd maybe all meet up a couple of them would come over and go how are you um how are you doing it and do you think and it was almost like this secret I kind of want to do it as well but and it was weird because some of them were having to go back to work or some of them were really really struggling with it or were exhausted or going this is really hard and they were sort of opening up to me going so what did you do and what what bottles did you get and suddenly I realised that actually for some women even who if you can breastfeed actually for whatever your situation is it might make more sense to bottle feed you've got to think it's got to be the whole situation look at the whole situation are you at a verge of a mental breakdown well that's no good for your baby either is it honestly I had tears pinging to my eyes then oh don't because I just thought about when Buzz was a baby and I literally I had it in my head that I wanted to and it's where happy mum happy baby comes from I had it in my head that I wanted to feed and I can just remember it would take me an hour and a half to feed him then it would take me 45 minutes to get him to go to sleep then he would be up half an hour later and it was a continuous thing and I had it in my brain the pressure only came from me I don't believe it came from anywhere else I had put this pressure on me and I can remember speaking to Emma Willis one night and her just being like gee, happy mum happy baby Like if you are not happy, if this is not serving you and your baby, then why are you doing it?

51:22Yeah. And we forget to trust our instinct with that. And my instinct really was, Shonda's bottle feed, just do it because she'll be fine. She'll be absolutely fine. And it changed my whole situation. And then I won't name who, but I had other people DM me on Instagram who had had babies and they were like, I'm really struggling. how you're getting on with the breastfeeding? And I said, I've stopped. And it was like music to their ears. Really? And they were like, oh my God, Sian, I've been struggling so much, but I didn't dare admit it. And I said, if it's not working for you, just stop. And that's why as well, I've sort of at peace with the fact that, you know, the online, that kind of almost know-it-all comment section.

52:08I like to think that deep down, it just comes from a place of all of us go through such hard moments that when you feel like you've cracked it or when you feel like you can offer a pearl of wisdom, you're so desperate to tell somebody. This is what I always say. Do you agree? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. They're saying that because they've gone through all the stuff and that's what worked for them. Yes, and they're so desperate to pass that on and go, oh, no, no, no, because that... And they don't realise, and maybe we're all guilty of it sometimes, when you've got through a phase, you go, oh, you've just got to try this.

52:38It's game-changing. I remember doing that about a certain sleep suit I had. And all of a sudden you've got so many different things coming at you and everyone's so insistent on their thing. Their thing being the right way to do it. And I'm sure that's where a lot of it comes from. We've been through hell and back or we did the mistake the first time around. You want to sort of pass on the knowledge and go, oh, don't do this. Because I've worked out that this is better. I got in my head about a certain bottle because obviously I had to go from trying to breastfeed to bottle feeding. And I had no idea how different bottles were.

53:07And something actually I'd love to say, I'm sure someone said this before, but if you are having a real tough time bottle feeding, just try a different bottle. And it sounds so obvious. It sounds so obvious, but when you're delirious and you're really tired. And that's a really important thing though, even in terms of flow. You've got to get the right flow for your baby. You do, and I didn't really know much about that, right? Again, maybe if you've planned, it's a bit like the birthing plan. If you plan to breastfeed and you suddenly are bottle feeding, I've not really done loads of research on bottles.

53:35and it was all going down a neck and then she was getting awful wind because it's going in too fast. And one of the key things, isn't it, that you learn when they're little is, oh my God, the winding and it takes forever and it's like burping, isn't it? And the second I switched to MAM bottles, which have a size zero, which is such an even tinier hole, I didn't even need bibs. Really? That's how different it was. I didn't even use a bib because nothing was leaking, nothing was going anywhere. and then actually genuinely the winding and all that kind of fear of colic and all that, that disappeared because she was just taking it the right flow.

54:11So my little pearl of wisdom, if anyone is going through this and they're going, oh my God, she's, you know, the wind and they're crying all night because, you know, have they got colic? I was convinced. I thought Ruby's got colic. This is it. I changed bottles, changed teats. Just try different ones. The same with nappies. Yeah. You know, it's all different. It's all different. How was your recovery? probably I probably didn't spend enough time staying still in all honesty surprises me I probably tried to be like I can do it way too quick um uh yeah I think it was I mean it is sore and it for a while like it's it's not quite as bad as I'd been had in my head I thought c sections were pretty much you were bedridden and I wasn't bedridden you just it does hurt doing the you know getting up yeah the worst bit for me actually honestly was the day after having the c-section i think all the drugs leave your system and you are in a really weird place and i felt very down and very emotional i couldn't stop crying right and i had this catheter in and it's so inconvenient and whoever's designed this catheter it needs to have a strap it needs a strap so you can wear it it has a bloody hook on the end and you're trying to do stuff and and And obviously the baby is in a, when it's so weird, you're in this low bed.

55:30You've had a C-section. They've cut through seven layers of your body, right? You hurt. The baby is high up in this plastic thing that you have to get up out of bed to reach. Or, don't get me wrong, I know the beds move up and down, but even reaching for that remote if it drops on the floor, it's just hell. And you don't want to be a burden to the midwives. You can't be buzzing every five minutes saying, can you get my remote? So, of course, you try and reach for this all yourself. And everyone's the same. We all try. And so I had this catheter, you know, and I was trying to pick her about the bed and that's hurting.

56:02And I was probably just trying to do too much myself, probably. And I had what I call the saddest shower of my life. It was sad. It was a sad shower. Tell me about the sad shower. The sad shower came after I should have had the catheter out. Yeah. And I went to go and so the catheter came out and they say, you've got to show that you can go to the toilet. And I couldn't make the two connect. And I sat there and I was like, my brain can't. I knew I was desperate. I could feel my bladder was so full, but I couldn't communicate to wee. That was a weird feeling. I was actually quite scared because I thought, oh, have I lost control?

56:33I've lost feeling here. And I couldn't make it work. And I was getting really upset and overwhelmed about it. And I was like, oh, I can't wee. And I know I'm desperate. They're like, got to put the catheter back in. This time when it went back in, obviously you're not numb down there anymore. So that was really painful and sore. And it's got this hook on it, right? So you're sort of waddling around. And when you're trying to do something with two hands, you're hooking it onto stuff. and then you forget and you're walking away and it's pulling down there and oh god that hurts and then I was like do you know what I need a shower I just need a shower and I went into it it's almost like imagine a massive sort of disabled toilet that kind of vibe where there's a toilet and there's like but the shower like a wet room type and you know it just was I had the catheter which I couldn't take out in one hand but I was really struggling to get my pants off around the tube and there was of course know where to put your dry clothes so I was trying to find I was putting them on top of the toilet so that they would be dry because the floor's completely wet and the shower wasn't one that was from the ceiling it was one you have to hold so I've got the shower and I'm holding the catheter and I'm trying to shower myself and hold this catheter and I'm looking at my clothes and I can see they're getting a bit damp because the socks falling off and dripping I'm like don't get sad over that Sean it's just a sock then I was like wait a minute how do you do the shampoo so now I'm like, right.

57:50So I try and hook the catheter onto the shower thing. But there's no ledge for shampoo or conditioner. I don't know who's designed this place. Is that on the floor? Yeah, that was on the floor. You have to bend down for that. Yeah, so I'm bending down for that, holding the shower. And it was just carnage. And I remember just having nowhere to put anything. It was just almost impossible to shampoo and condition. Also, so is your scar by this point all under? It's all got wrapping on it. So you're like, oh, that's it. You're trying not to get that wet. That's right. I forgot all that. So you're trying not to get your padding wet.

58:17and everything obviously aches because you're desperate for this shower just to feel human again and the shower itself felt amazing but then I'm trying to hook it back on and whatever and I remember trying to put my clothes back on and it honestly almost broke me and I was like I can't get my pants on and I've got these massive Bridget Jones pants and I can't get my foot in and the catheter's getting wrapped up in it and I just remember I must have been in there for ages and I heard my other half go, Sean, you all right? And I went, no! And he opened the door and I was like, you've got to help me get dressed.

58:57I don't even know what I look like at this point. Mascara was probably down my face. I couldn't wash my face. And I was like, oh my God, please help me get dressed. And that day was an emotional day and I was really drained. And I did spend a lot of that day just almost uncontrollably crying, not out of sadness. it's a different feeling it's weird you're in this bed you feel a bit disgusting you're really in pain you've got this whole new stress and this new I need to learn out what I'm doing with this baby and then the thought of having to maybe because I'm a people pleaser the thought of trying to entertain on top of that or be really chirpy overwhelmed me I was like I can't be shan I can't be like accommodating because I'm just not Did that surprise you?

59:38Yeah at one point I sort of just couldn't handle normal conversation Really? Yeah it was really weird for me I don't know it was really odd But I did get over it. Yeah. And a few days at home and a proper shower and whatever. Like, and you're fine again. But what was it like when you left the hospital? Oh, I couldn't wait to get out. I was pleading with the nurses. I was like, please, can you take this catheter out? And they're like, Sian, you've got to prove you can wee. And I was on the toilet going, wee! Work! Bladder, don't let me down. Please, wee! And I was just willing. So how does that work?

1:00:06Are they literally waiting for your brain to be able to talk to your bladder again? Yeah, I think so. And to prove that you're all right. Yeah, because otherwise you would be in such a mess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. because they get an infection. Yeah. And so I think they have to, you have to prove you can do both. Yeah. And then you can leave. And I was like, and they were giving me prune juice or whatever. It was like rocket fuel. I don't know what it was, but they're like, do you want some of this? I was like, yes, whatever this is, give it me. And I was like, I just need to get out of this hospital.

1:00:27The other thing I will say, because it was June, it was really hot. It was 22nd of June, boiling hot. And they are hot, those wards, aren't they? They are roasting. I'm like, the babies need to be this hot. No,

1:00:42you could write a letter on motherhood who would be to and what would you say oh do you know what it would just be to any new mum because you even even me nine months in i've got so much more perspective on everything just do whatever you need to do do whatever feels right whatever works for you and your family whatever works for your situation uh whether you start with one plan and you go to another don't worry about it because at the end of the day like your podcast says happy mum happy baby like if you are happy and if you as a couple are in a good space or if you're doing this journey on your own which I've got friends that have done this on their own as well as long as you're in a good headspace everything feels 10 times easier because you're relaxed and you're enjoying it rather than stressing fretting comparing yourself to people on Instagram or whatever else other mums just don't compare we're all on our own little journey aren't we yeah it doesn't matter absolutely are there bits heading forward that you are apprehensive about I suppose all of it.

1:01:39Really? Even like when I came in this morning, you were like, ah, the other sleep thing. Yeah, it just sort of doesn't, you know, there's certain things you go, yeah, it carries on. Like the worries or the new things. There's always something new, isn't there? Yeah. I suppose I'm, I suppose all of those stages I'm slightly nervous for. But then I'm also, I'm in a really amazing place where she's funny and she's laughing and I can tell she's such a character. Yeah. So I'm, I'm looking forward to meeting Ruby. I can't wait. Yeah. And it's that gorgeous point where little bits are coming out. I bet the first time you have a conversation with your kid is it the most bizarre thing ever?

1:02:14But it still catches us by surprise now. Really? The things they come out with? Yeah. Like Buzz at the moment, so our eldest is... He's 10? He's 11. Oh, 11. So he's in Starlight Express, he's in Andy and the Band, like a TV series, and he did his first interview the other day. Oh. So it was on Zoom, it was with First News, and me and Tom sort of stood behind the other side of the door while it was happening. and it was just so incredible hearing him give answers to questions. Do you know what I mean? It's been like, you know, the comparison between theatre and TV and, you know, how he's found it and just really in-depth, thoughtful answers.

1:02:51They were just like, wow, that's our kid. You know, that's the one who, you know, all those stuff that you're going through with Ruby right now, that's like a proper little human. It's amazing. Yeah, but you two are great and I want to say that. I followed you two, your journey over those years. We've seen it on Instagram and you with the kids. I don't know, you always just, there's definitely joy in your household. That's something that I just want as well. You can tell you both enjoy it. You love being parents. And I think it's not losing that. It is amazing, isn't it? You can get bogged down with all the other stuff, but ultimately, that's incredible that you've seen him do that.

1:03:28And he's so proud. I can imagine the first nativity play is like... Oh, you just weep your way through it. Yeah, because she's so proud. I mean, listen, I was proud the second she could... You realise that parents aren't as mental as you thought when you didn't have them. You're like, why are you applauding the fact that they've, like, sat up and you go, no, that's amazing when they can sit up. Even when she first opened her eyes a bit more, I was like, oh, wow, it's incredible. So you start realising, because you do genuinely start... Or grow eyelashes, little things. Oh, my God, didn't you think about eyelashes?

1:03:56Yeah, hair. Ruby's still not got a lot of hair. And her just getting hair, I was like, oh, she's got some hair. like a ward like so you're so overwhelmed oh they're so amazing yeah it's ridiculous they are Sian we end the podcast with you completing three sentences oh god the first one is being a mum means I think it just means that you change it changed my perspective it changes your perspective on everything you appreciate your own mum more you appreciate things like life more and stuff that that you took for granted and I think you find a new joy enjoy in everyday things which is something that I didn't realize how how nice that would be since having a child I since having a child I have had the least amount of sleep ever in my whole life and I've never ever been that tired however you know it's all worth it I mean I just don't know how you do it I don't know how you're doing breakfast breakfast radio I think we can't I can't say it out loud like we can't question it because if I actually question how I'm doing it that's when I'll have the nervous breakdown.

1:05:01Right now we're running on adrenaline. This is so true. Just keep going. Keep going. You only look one day ahead or whatever and I'm just not thinking about it. I'm just doing it. Yeah. Okay. And I'm happy when? Some of my most joyous moments are when I've made Ruby laugh and I love it. She's got a really good giggle and it's really satisfying. I love tickling her. I love making her jump or anything like that where it gets a natural laugh out of her. Oh my God, it's the best moment ever. I love this. Thank you. so much. Thank you. It's been an absolute delight. Absolute delight. I've loved every minute.

1:05:34I've had therapy. Thank you. When can I come back? Is this weekly? Anytime. Anytime.