The ultimate guide to preparing for birth: Parenting SOS with Midwife Pip

0:05Hello and welcome to another episode of Happy Mum, Happy Baby, Happy Baby, Happy, Happy. SOS. This week I am very lucky to be joined by the wonderful midwife Pip who is on a mission to ensure that women feel educated, empowered and very importantly heard during one of life's most transformative journeys, birth. She's here to share her wisdom, bust some myths and we'll ask her some of your questions too. Hello Pip. Hello thanks so much for having me I'm so excited to chat all things parenting birth it's so important. I am so delighted that you're here. You are such Such a grounding voice. I think your truth empowers people, essentially.

0:44That's what your truth does. I'm so pleased that's come across because sometimes it's a really, like, tricky, fine line between being honest and not kind of... I never want to scare people, but I want to properly prepare them. And I think there's, like, this, like, shift at the moment in the birth space where it's almost becoming, let's really hyper-focus on, like, complete normality. and almost like blinker ourselves to anything else. But that anything else is often the thing that needs the most attention. So it's always like a really tricky place. But I really believe that as women, as women going through this journey in our lives, we're not like vulnerable children that need protecting.

1:24We're strong, independent women. And we deserve that truth. And we deserve to know the real realities. So it's something I'm really passionate about, kind of palming the way and changing and having these conversations about that are just real and honest. Pip, how did you find yourself in this place of pregnancy and postpartum support? You've got an amazing support service. So how did you find yourself in this space? Yeah, so I've been in midwifery since 2012, trained, qualified as a midwife, been in all different areas of midwifery. And then in 2019, was in a senior position on a busy labour ward.

1:57And I think the thing that really kind of was highlighted to me in that particular role was the amount of families that would come through birth with really set ideas, almost like a shopping list for birth. And then there was like a twist or turn that are really, really common. And they'd be like, Pip, I failed at birth. Or, you know, I regret this. Or I could see that trauma in their eyes. And I just felt so strongly that it just shouldn't be like that. Like, it doesn't have to be like that. We need to start having these conversations. And then we went into lockdown. And that support that was minimal already for families became even less, like literally overnight.

2:33and my husband one day was like can you just stop moaning about it Pip and just do something about it and I was like brilliant and I'm so grateful for his like complete raw honesty at that moment because I was like I was in the shower one day and I was like I think I might start that thing called Instagram no idea what it was never never been on social media really in my kind of private life yeah and I was like I'm gonna gonna have a go anyway just started posting stuff that I thought might be helpful that I just wanted women to know to bust some myths and then started recording the podcast just myself you know in my in my little office chatting away hoping that someone might listen and it turns out they did and it just highlighted this massive void for that real information and so that's kind of where it led from the Instagram into the podcast then into my program and then into the book just before my second little one was born so it's kind of kind of escalated but kind of evolved with what I've recognized that families really need when we start having those open conversations which I think is what's so powerful absolutely and no wonder then that you want to share things for a place of honesty or from your personal experience because if there's if it's feeling like people are coming through unprepared and then feeling like failures because of that more than realizing actually this is something that is is beyond our control and we have to sort of follow the journey of birth and what happens and and react as things happen you know the more that's said about it the the kinder we can be to ourselves and then the happier maybe or at peace we can be with that experience?

3:57Yeah, definitely. And I think control is such an interesting one you mentioned there because so many families say to me, I'm so scared of being out of control. I think as a society, particularly of women, in today's world, we love being in control of all aspects. And that's why birth and motherhood can be so jarring because there's so much that isn't within our direct control. But what I often say to families is if control is something that does worry you and you feel like I need to grapple onto control, when we have proper understanding or preparation and support in place, We can shift that in that you know that no matter what twist or turn crops up, it may not have been on your birth plan, you haven't got that level of control.

4:33But you're not going to feel out of control because you'll have heard of those things. You'll know how you were going to plan to navigate that. It might not have been plan A. No one's ever said to me, Pip, really want a forceps, please. Like, please, please have a forceps. No one's ever told me that. I don't think they're ever going to. But actually, we know they're really common. So if that does crop up and that's something that you're worried about in terms of control, well, let's give you back that control. And actually we can start then shaping birth in a really positive and empowering way.

5:00And families will say to me, like, I had the birth that I really didn't want, but it was amazing. And knowing that I had control and made informed decisions, I've taken away like immense strength and power and I would do it all again tomorrow. So if someone is scared of forceps, then how do you shift that if that's the way that they? Is it more in the prep then of kind of changing someone's outlook and forceps or making them understand, you know, why they're used? Is it more that or is it more in actual birth kind of steering away from it? Like what would your approach be? Yeah, I think I take a bit of a duo to it in terms of, first of all, let's actually understand that because often these fears have come from other people's stories, other people's perceptions, things that we've seen or heard.

5:43So actually unpicking where's that come from and then allowing women to actually understand what they are. because often when we actually understand our body, why they're being offered or why they're being used, it makes a big, big difference. And then looking at choices around that because there's never black and white in like anything pregnancy, motherhood, there's never black and white. There's always this enormous grey area and the grey area is where the empowerment lands. So really understanding and then also looking at, okay, so if we know that we don't really want that thing, which I don't blame anybody, I don't particularly want anyone to have four steps either, how can we put things in place to reduce the chance of that so what tools and techniques can we use whether it's biomechanics whether it's you know sometimes it's bladder care like all these different things that we can put in place so we know that we've reduced the chance of that first and foremost but equally if it crops up we understand it and we know our options and our choices and we don't have those kind of black and white rules that can often then lead to those feelings that we just need to get rid of in birth because everyone should enjoy it surely a massive part of that feeling is the birth plan.

6:44I think I've said it on this podcast far too often, but a birth plan, the idea of going in with this laminated set of ideals, of really sitting down and going, it's like planning your wedding day, right? I am going to have these flowers and this dress and the sun's going to be out, right? With birth, it isn't like that, but we all go in with this birth plan. I know it's about seeing it as a list of preferences. This is what I would really like and being able to swivel away from it or kind of, you know, roll with it. But are we, with a birth plan, setting mums up for failure or are we informing people in the room of, you know, it's really hard to work out the pros and cons of a birth plan, basically.

7:25100%. I so agree. And I think the hard thing is that, honestly, the vast majority of birth plans I see have the exact same stuff on it. Water birth. Nice lighting. I don't want to tear. I don't want, like, they're all the same. Again, like you said, with forceps, who writes down the thing? No one wants that. I want to be on my back in a bed. I want to tear. I want, please give me an episiotomy. No one wants it. And, you know, whatever. No one ever says all of that stuff. No one wants it. We either want a planned cesarean section or a completely straightforward vaginal birth. Yeah. So those birth plans, to me as a midwife, are honestly so unhelpful.

7:55Yeah. The plans that are really helpful is if you've got something specific. So, for example, if you've got a pelvic organ prolapse and you're planning a vaginal birth, actually really key things about how we try and make sure that you can achieve that without exacerbating your prolapse symptoms really helpful yeah if you've had bladder issues and we need to look at that bladder care really helpful the other birth plans that i think are golden and instead of that like all normal one yeah i would really recommend doing a plan for the things that you're worried about so if it is say i don't want to demonize forceps but we've spoken about it like forceps or induction of labor or an unplanned cesarean section those kind of things that typically people don't want that's the thing to write a plan for yeah so and then it becomes like almost an educational process so rather than you just writing down like a shopping list and being like this is what i'm gonna have thanks and then when it doesn't happen being like no one listened to my plan it's like actually that becomes your education process of then learning about those things that you're not sure about where there are questions or areas that you're not comfortable with that's your like red flag to then get that support or get that further understanding or ask more questions so that you feel like okay this is plan z for me but if it happens this is how we're going to handle it like we've got this these are the questions we're going to ask i've got depth of understanding about what that means for my body that's a big shift so i would say i really would love us to steer away from those birth plans that are like almost like copy and paste off google you know you know the vibe not those ones but actually ones that are the important things to you and there's nothing wrong with aiming for that straightforward birth my goodness that's what we all want but when we look at like UK statistics we know that we need to plan for these other things otherwise we're just leaving families open and vulnerable and planning for them or just even having a little moment to think about them means that we're not completely caught out when or if it happens absolutely but when you get pregnant I mean you know so many of us try for a long time to get pregnant and then when it happens it feels like you're suddenly in this world where there's so much info and you know nothing about it but everyone almost thinks that you should know everything about it and it's so overwhelming and a lot of the information can be conflicting yeah so when it comes to birth things like preparing your body for birth yeah what what does that even mean yes such good you're right it's like information overwhelm and then you can either go in like a spiral of spending hours and hours like trying to research stuff and actually getting more overwhelmed or bury your head in the sand like i don't even want to touch it because then i've opened like this can of worms i don't know how to deal with them so you're so right so I always say like ideally birth prep starts as soon as possible like we mentioned weddings and planning for weddings yeah most of us spend a decent amount of time planning our wedding because it's this really important day and we want it to be right and birth's the same and it's all about enjoying the leader right so you've got to enjoy the pregnancy and enjoy exactly yeah like it's like that whole trying to like mirror like your birth is your event it is your wedding and you've got this like nine months ultimately to prepare and to plan and like you say relish and enjoy it like we don't do it much to be pregnant you know it's like a one two three kind of time thing so enjoying it so i would say like first trimester one of the things that i love speaking to families around is pelvic health because it's not talked about enough yeah we pick up all these injuries postpartum but actually the first trimester when we have got surging hormones but not ones that are going to damage our pelvic floor so much yeah we haven't got massive pressure on our pelvic floor it's a great time to build strong fundamentals it's also the time like in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy your baby's fully formed so the first trimester is like this thing that sits in the shadows but actually it's a time where we can have massive influence on our bodies and also on our baby's development so I'm always like first trimester a really important time to educate yourself about your body the changes that are going to happen and then also like influencing your baby's development also recognizing that you can survive on chicken nuggets and toaster that's all about balance right first trimester is brutal and then as we kind of move through the trimesters exercise is really important but I really hate that when we go to google all we see is people bouncing on birthboards or doing pregnancy yoga because they're great they're wonderful but are they the things that's really going to set you up for this marathon of birth recovery and motherhood no so actually building that kind of strength in your body to give you the psychological advantage but also that physical advantage of birth is so important and then as we kind of come into the third trimester is when I start thinking about okay let's prepare your body more physically for birth.

12:19So making sure we haven't got any tension or restriction in the pelvis is really, really important. I always say that it's a bit like a lock and a key, getting a baby through a pelvis. So if the lock and key aren't well aligned, it doesn't matter how many contractions you have, it doesn't matter how much force you put into that lock and key, it ain't going to fit. And it's the same thing with birth. So it's really about that kind of like fine tuning all the work that you've done in the first and second trimester, kind of in that third trimester. Nutrition is really important because I know the first trimester, I mean, just...

12:47Chicken nuggets in this fight. But actually we know that when you have a baby, you're going to have some bleeding. You're going to bleed for a little while afterwards. We want to do things like boosting our iron stores because we know anemia is a massive issue in the fertile population in this country. So kind of all these different bits of physical prep that really do make a difference, but we kind of forget about it and then we get to 36-week birth planning and then we print out that birth plan on Google. Yeah. What about the perineal massage? I can remember when suddenly getting pregnant and suddenly someone's saying this to me and being like, what?

13:18Like, how do I even do that? How do I, especially when you've got a bump and then discovering the epineau, which I was just like, this is the most ungraceful thing I think I've ever done. I remember just going to Tom, please do not come upstairs. Currently having a session with my epineau. Please do not. Do not disturb. Yeah. Isn't it so funny? Because we don't talk about vaginas and then suddenly you get pregnant and we're like, do your pelvic floors, squeeze your bum like holding in a fart and then start massaging your vagina from 30 to 60 weeks every night. Thanks very much. And everyone's like, do you want?

13:51Especially at 30 to 70 weeks when you're just like... I don't even know if it exists anymore, let alone reaching it and massaging it. But I do love perennial massage, so we know that it can help reduce the more significant tears, which is the main thing. We know that tearing is super common. Have I said it right? Yeah, you nailed it. Because I get it confused with perennial flowers. Oh, perennial. It's different. Just putting it out there. No flowers involved in massage. They're not the year round flowers that come back every year. They're not that. They are your fadge. It is. It is. Thanks, Pip.

14:24The area between your vaginal opening and your bum, essentially. So we know that about 90 % of women have some degree of tearing, which sounds really scary, but actually the vast majority won't know when it happens because everything's so stretched. I don't know about you, but I had two little tears and I didn't feel them happen and they were sutured up afterwards and I'm all good. I always say I had an episiotomy the first time around and that was brutal compared to the tear. Yes. So we want to, some people will say to me, I'd rather have an episiotomy because I don't want a bad tear. But we know that when your body tears naturally, it tears the amount it needs.

14:54Episiotomies are one size fits all. And they don't often heal quite as straightforward because we've interfered with those fibres rather than then kind of tearing naturally. So, yes, we know that tearing is common. Perineal massage can be a good tool in helping to reduce that. However, if it's causing you stress or discomfort or making you tense, please don't feel like if I do, don't do this, that's it. I'm going to, you know, tear from back to front and it's going to be awful. I'm never going to have sex ever again. It's not the case. There are other things you can do. And actually, one of my favourite things, because it's not a pressure on the mum.

15:28It puts it on the midwife. And we love a little extra job, right? Surely. But it is a warm compress. So when you're having a baby, if you're in water, the water does it for you. So you don't even need to worry. But if you're on like dry land, so to speak, when your baby's head's crowning, you know, that like final stinging stage. If your midwife just pops like it can be a bit of gauze or a maternity pad soaked in warm water just against that perineum, that bit that's stretching. That's actually got even better evidence than perineal massage for reducing tearing. And often when I do it in practice, I'll literally see women be like, like their shoulders drop because that warm water around that stinging area just feels soothing as well.

16:07So don't feel like if you can't do a perineal massage or it's just like causing you too much anxiety, ditch it and look at other things. There's not one size fits all. Also, anything that causes you anxiety and tenses you, it's the opposite of what you actually want to do. So you might as well just bin it. Exactly. Some people are quite happy massaging away. Others are like, this feels awful. And all the tissues are then doing is tensing up. So then when you come to that stage of birth, rather than thinking, oh, yeah, I've practiced this. I know this sensation. Your body's going, oh, my goodness, it's that again.

16:35No, thank you. and actually we're undoing all that work. Yeah. One exciting thing that we all do is pack our hospital bags. Now, I was on this for quite a while. I had watched quite a lot of things, packed far too much stuff. I had a kit list. Like I'm now going on a trek, I had a kit list. But I would say I was quite compact with what I took. Tom, on the other hand, brought out the massive suitcase. He looked like he was going away for a week. And I was like, we cannot take that to hospital. Well, I mean, people must bring the most absurd things to a birth. what are the things that you're like this is a must what should people be packing firstly not thongs why?

17:14just why life Pip? why life? I know I feel like in my 20s that was really great now I'm like you know those big maternity pads how long should I keep them on? but yeah you'd be surprised the amount of times I've gone to find place in a clunder and I'm like what are we going to do with these then because this is just not going to work in any circumstance so not thongs, big pack Like think big and then go bigger with pants. Because you're going to have to wear your pants. Yeah. Whatever first happens. Exactly. You're going to be bleeding. And if you have a cesarean section, the place that pants typically go on is exactly where the wound is.

17:47So you want like high rise, like big, as big as you can get. Go big, go dark, go cotton. Yeah. Keep it like simple and absolutely beautiful. So big pants, big pads, not like your sanitary pads, definitely not tampons. Maternity pads are like thick and chunky. Again, I can remember getting those for the first time and being like, whoa. Because you don't know until you start buying the things and getting them out. Yeah. And I think when you think like postnatal bleeding, we kind of think like period. So with sanitary pads, you know, they're pretty good on a heavy flow. But actually, it's another level, isn't it, when you just had a baby?

18:19It is another level. It really is. So definitely comfort is really important. And when you're thinking about like what you're going to wear during birth, comfort is so important. Like you're so on edge irritable sometimes during labour. So anything like little itchy labels or like trousers that are riding up or riding down in the wrong place, if it drives you mad before or during labour, you're going to be ripping them off. Is it better just to go in a big like nightie or a t-shirt? Do you know what I mean? They can be perfect. It's so individual. Some women want to be stark naked. That's absolutely fine with us.

18:49There's no right or wrong. Others, like if you're in the pool, you might want to just wear like a crop top or like a bikini top. Something where if your baby was suddenly coming out, we can gain access is very helpful. I think I've always, I always wore the same Minnie Mouse nightie and I, as soon as everything kicked off, I was naked. I love that. Have you still got the nightie? No. I don't think I have. It was great. Great memories. It was Minnie Mouse. I had, I was oversized tee. Really? Big old, big old t-shirt and then my boys were born in the water so I had a bikini top on. Oh, I didn't even have a bikini top.

19:20I don't know why. I was just like, I'm in. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter. A lot, most women will end up naked. Yeah. And I think it's you're hot. You kind of, you don't feel, well, hopefully those supporting around you don't make you feel watched or observed. So you feel more like you can just be however you're most comfortable and there isn't a right or wrong. So something comfortable to wear, big pants, big pads. Don't pack for a week because when you get home, you've got to unpack it. And there's nothing worse than unpacking is there, especially if you've had a baby. So keep it really simple.

19:50I always say for birth partners to have their own bag. So it doesn't need to be a big suitcase. so that if you're separated they've got a pop home or whatever they're not rummaging through your stuff so yeah keep it simple you don't need loads of stuff the amount of times people turn up at hospital unplanned have a baby and we can produce everything they need like it's all good yeah and what are you looking out for in terms of your hormones uh during pregnancy so hormones during pregnancy are absolutely wild and postnatally as well actually like the whole thing They're wild. So to start with, first trimester, the reason why the first trimester is so absolutely disgusting is because your hormones are what maintains a pregnancy.

20:30So they are sky, sky high to keep a baby growing. Then we get to that second trimester, so around 12-ish weeks, and those hormones start to drop because your body has made the placenta, that organ that then maintains pregnancy. So second trimester, things start to feel a bit better hormonally because the placenta takes over. Then third trimester, sometimes we can ramp up again a little bit. We can feel a bit more tired, a bit more emotional as we get towards the end. Then fourth trimester, we have the biggest drop in hormones in the shortest amount of time that anyone will ever have in their life.

21:03Oestrogen drops by like 90%. It's phenomenal. It's like mental. Add to that sleep deprivation, recovery, the fact that you've just birthed a human and your whole identity's changed. No wonder the first trimester is this wild time. And is there a massive shift when your body starts producing milk as well? Like what hormone is producing? Is that a hormone that's producing milk? Yeah, yeah. So your body makes milk from about 15, 16 weeks of pregnancy, but we have this like little hormonal dance that stops it just leaking out everywhere. But if women give a little squeeze, they'll often notice a few little drops.

21:36Then when your placenta comes out when baby's born, you have this surge in the hormone called prolactin, which makes it start coming out essentially. So from when baby's born, that colostrum starts coming out. And then after a few days is when that like more mature, larger volumes of milk comes in. And it's all whilst we're going through this hormonal roller coaster. Like we are phenomenal. First time around, I can remember just being, I was hallucinating in bed when my milk was coming in. And I didn't realise it was that sort of shift. I was in my head. I actually remember what was happening.

22:09I was in my bed in the dark and I was, it was like I was a fetus. It was so weird, like just curled up. But it was just the hormones all just taking over. I did something really dangerous when I was new mum, first baby. And we'd done all the safe sleeping stuff. He was in his next to me crib, like on his back, all safe. I'd breastfed him, put him back to sleep. And then that like sheer sleep deprivation exhaustion, I'd woken back up in the night cuddling my pillow thinking it was the baby and gone to go and put the pillow on top of the baby. thank goodness my husband who knows how much of a deep sleeper I am was like, baby's in the cot, that's the pillow but like thank goodness, but it was that, I was just hallucinatingly tired it was like, I've fallen asleep with the baby feeding whereas I obviously never remembered putting him back in the cot through that exhaustion I mean the amount of mums that must have that, where they kind of wake up in that panic please let me know that I'm not the only one no, no, no, I absolutely have woken up thinking I fell asleep holding the baby or the baby, like literally searching Yeah.

23:08That like heart-sinking panic. But you're still asleep when you're doing that. Exactly. And then the baby's there. Yeah, like that exhaustion, I think, is a shocker, isn't it, when you have your first? It really is. There's nothing, nothing prepares you for it. No. I thought I'd be fine because I was like, I've done night shifts. Like, I'll go to, like, be awake all day, go to work all night. And then I realised that with a baby, there's not an end point. I was like, I do like three or four nights and then I sleep. Yeah. I was like, when does this stop? When you are in late, when things start kicking off, I always think the most tricky thing is knowing when to go to hospital, because you're told in all the classes, you know, just wait until you're inactive.

23:45But if you're doing hypnobirthing, depending on your pain threshold, sometimes it's not that easy. You know, I've heard of so many widder wives going, well, you can talk, so, you know, you're absolutely fine. I was talking to my gynaecologist in the first pregnancy. I was having just a conversation, and he said to me, are you having contractions? I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm having them now. And he's like, yeah, you're six centimetres. But because I'd been able to just kind of breathe, not breathe through it, but you know what I mean, I was managing it at that point. So it's very difficult to know when.

24:18Yeah, when to go in. And I think that's such a good point because it can be really disempowering to women if someone on the phone says to you, well, you're not screaming, you're not in tears. And then it's almost like, oh, I've got to be screaming in tears before I go to hospital. And that's really dangerous. Like you said, actually, it's OK to cope really well with labour and birth. I only went in because my husband was like, you're going to have a baby in a minute. We're going in there. Like, it's so important that we don't just think, right, I've got to stay at home and like no longer possibly cope because that's how we have accidental babies at home.

24:47So I always say, think about how often you're contracting. So with kind of the established age of labour, contractions become like clockwork. So we typically will have about three or four in about 10 minutes and they'll last for somewhere between 45 and 60 seconds. And when they've been, if it's your first baby, when you've had that for about an hour, and they've not dwindled off or gone away or, you know, become really sporadic and you haven't had one for 30 minutes, then you know that the chance are things are going to carry on and you are probably in established labour. But if you just get a feeling of like, I think this baby's going to come, that's also fine.

25:24Go in. Like our instincts as women are so powerful. And I always say like at any stage during pregnancy or labour or with a newborn baby, If you just think something's not quite right here or I just know, perfect. Listen to that above any medical advice. Like our instincts are phenomenal. They're so powerful. And will that always be met with a supportive midwife the other end? Good question. I'd like to think we're getting much better at that. But as with all life, like that person may or may not. And then you can just say either, well, I'm coming in anyway. Or could I please speak to somebody else?

25:58Oh, really? That's fine too. Definitely. You've just reminded me what contractions feel like. And I was really surprised with the whole, you know, the 45 second thing, how actually that feeling is, it's like it switches on. Yeah. And you have this, I'm going to say like an electric current for that amount of time. Yeah. And then it just goes. Just goes. And I think that's a really powerful thing when we talk about preparing. We often think about let's prepare for the pain, let's prepare for the contractions or surges. But actually there's this rest afterwards. So we know they're like a wave. So if we say they're 60 seconds, you might have 20 seconds of like, right, it's coming, build up, build up, build up.

26:35Then 20 seconds of like, you know, peak intensity. Let's get through this. Then 20 seconds of it fading away. Then it stops. Then you have about two minutes of rest before the next one. And that rest is literally nothing. Nothing. Yeah. For the bath, it's nothing. Blew my mind. Blew my mind. It's like on and off. Yeah. And so it means that when we think about labour, actually around two thirds of your labour, so about 67 % quick maths, is rest. So let's not just plan for the like 33 of labour. Let's also plan for what we're going to do in the rest and how that's going to help. And actually creating that shift of it's not just right, labour started, now we've got pain for 12 hours.

27:13That's not how it works. Actually understanding these peaks and troughs and these waves. And I found with the wave kind of almost visualising a contraction as a wave, I got my husband to count. So when I have a contraction, I'd be like, count. And he'd count to 60. And in my head, I was doing like little fractions of like, hey, 20 seconds. It's building up. Let's go. Then I was like, right, 20 seconds. Like, you know, breathe, focus, just get through it. And then I was like, right. And now it's fading. And now we've got to rest. And like micro mind games helped me phenomenally with that was my second labor.

27:44His counting was like my anchor. It was brilliant. I think doing it like that really helps take you moment by moment as well. Definitely. because like we were saying birth is unpredictable so yes you might be coping beautifully that doesn't mean you're not progressing actually women could come in to me and maybe their cervix is one centimeter open and 20 minutes later they pop out a baby we have to look at that kind of bigger picture and often those women that are say one centimeter but they're contracting like a train and they're like no it's coming we need to listen to that my second labor was like that i i everything happened very very quickly and i knew um that we had to go to the hospital there was no and i couldn't sit down in the seat in the car like there was just a sign isn't it yeah and then we got to the hospital and I was told that I was six centimeters six seven centimeters so the same as the first time around um and I was like okay and they uh I was monitored for 20 minutes yeah and that lying there for 20 minutes that was agony because I just felt like that was not where I needed to be yeah yeah um and instinct again right yeah and the pool was the water was running that was all sorted I'd gone to the loo and whilst I was in the loo there was this feeling and it It felt like everything changed and I was just ready.

28:54Yeah. And in the pool I had five more of these and he was out. I love that. Do you know what? Just hearing you talk about your birth, it makes me so excited. Really? I just think the whole thing is so magical. And this is why you do what you do. I know, I know. It all makes sense, doesn't it? But it's just the whole thing is so magical. And seeing the power of women and their, like, mammal instincts and that power during, like, birth is just absolutely mind-blowing. So that no mum knows that, like no first time mum knows that that is within them? Yes. They don't know how capable they are to go through it.

29:23And I always say, once you've had your baby, just write down somewhere how you feel. Yeah. Like how you feel about yourself. Because through all the trials and tribulations that life throws at us, or those moments of weakness or that fourth trimester, you can just look back at that and be like, that was me. That was the same me. Like, I am so capable of these things.

29:48for people that are getting ready to go to hospital one of the things i think is not knowing what's going to happen when you get there so when you give birth who is in the room and what are they doing yeah good question so when you arrive typically someone will just assess you make sure you're in the right place etc and then if if everything goes smoothly with birth it will be your midwife that sort of greeted you they'll be in the room with you and they might just call some other member of staff in at the point of your baby being born just so if that mum and baby both need some medical support we've just got two hands there immediately so if everything's straightforward just those extra that extra one person with your midwife if there is a complication you might have a more senior midwife join you might have a neonatal doctor so they're like a specialist in babies that joins and it's just there in case your baby needs any support if you birth in a theatre setting that's where all of a sudden it feels like the whole world has just joined your room yeah which can feel a bit unsettling but they are all experts in their field there to keep you and your baby safe so always try to try and take comfort in that but in a theatre setting the team essentially doubles because you'll have an anaesthetic doctor that's there to keep you comfortable so either a spinal anaesthetic or an epidural or sometimes rarely a general anaesthetic they will have an assistant then there'll be a pediatric doctor again sometimes they have an assistant then there'll be an obstetric doctor that's the the person that's responsible for helping you to birth your baby however that might be and they have an assistant and then there'll be someone collecting all the equipment and sometimes they have an assistant and then you'll have a midwife and you might have another midwife scrubbed in in case there's a surgical procedure so all of a sudden that one person becomes enormous and and you've changed room so it can be quite unsettling so I sometimes say to families at that point an eye mask can be really nice really so you can just like if you had your little bubble just think about how do we take that bubble with us so sometimes an eye mask you can like spray it with something that you find comforting some nice music just to try and keep that adrenaline down a little bit we're going through corridors and we can't turn all the lights off in the corridor like you might have had in your room so that can just kind of make that transition a bit more gentle and it's always okay to ask questions whether that's you or your birth partner like it is okay to say like can someone just explain to me what's happening there's always those moments sometimes it feels really rushed but there really is always those moments it might be that someone's helping you get your gown on but can still explain you can still ask questions you can still use that brain tool there is always those moments even if they are just sped up a little bit have you seen a rise in home births and uh you know or water births or anything like that have you seen a rise in different types of births nowadays?

32:33Yeah, so I definitely started to see it. There was a little bit of a peak in home birth during COVID, which makes sense. People didn't want to come to hospital. They also wanted more continuity. They didn't want their birth partner restricted from visiting them. So in home, it's your home, your rules. So we definitely saw a bit of a rise in COVID. But what I think is awesome is that we're starting to see more of a rise in women birthing outside of guidelines, which I hate that term. What does that mean? It almost sounds like you're in the black book or the naughty list, doing something you shouldn't do.

33:03But essentially, like hospital guidelines are to guide care, generic care. They're not written in stone. They're not rule books that you must follow. So for example, some women that maybe have had one previous cesarean section, and traditionally would be told, right, you've had a cesarean section, so you have to birth on labour ward, you have to have X, Y and Z, actually now are birthing in birth centres with individualised care plans and we know there's so many benefits to being on a birth centre but then we can we can create this lovely shift where women don't feel like oh like I'm being naughty or I'm asking for something really extraordinary actually we have really great care planning appointments where we're like hey what's important to you this is why we recommend x y and z let's compromise let's look at a plan if this happens if that happens and let's make you know an individualized care planned for you and your baby rather than this like generic guideline and as we know like our bodies aren't generic so I've definitely seen a shift in women asking for more asking questions and therefore services actually adapting care and kind of thinking outside the box and actually providing this individualized care that we've harped on about for years but never really done that's amazing it's brilliant I love it and it's beneficial for everyone yeah and even if she doesn't birth for example like one previous cesarean section wants to birth on a birth center Even if that doesn't happen, even if there's a twist or turn and then she moves to labour world, she was heard, she was respected, she was supported.

34:26Actually, for her, that experience is going to still be very empowering, even if it's not what she had on her, you know, plan A birth plan. Let's talk post birth now. How long does recovery usually take? Because I think it's always a bit of a surprise, right? It's like, let's go back to the wedding day analogy. You've had your wedding day and now you've got the marriage. You know what I mean? But actually the first bit of it, you're trying to figure out what's going on. You get to it, you're knackered. You're thinking, what have I done? With you, me and you, forever, this is it. Where do we go from here?

35:07It didn't work using the wedding day analogy. I love it. But, you know, there's suddenly, you have this baby, which is what you longed for, hopefully. and, you know, you've got your baby in your arms, but then you're... It's real, right? And you're at a point where your body is not at its best. No, no, you're so right. And I think that takes a lot of women by surprise, partly because we have this hideous and unhelpful, like, bounce back or get yourself back, where, like, I don't know about you, I don't want to be the person I was before I had kids. Like, I'm a way better person now. I don't want to go back.

35:38We want to move forward. But the kind of process of recovery is so much longer than most women think and actually give themselves respect and credit for. So we know that it takes at least around six months for just basic pelvic floor recovery. And we're talking about fairly straightforward birth here, nothing wild and complicated. About 12 months for your abdominal wall or like your core to then be more like stronger and more healed. And then about 18 months for your hormones to regulate. So it isn't a case of at six weeks, let's go back running. Like I always say to them, And at six weeks, your legs might feel ready.

36:13Your head might be craving that. Your vagina is not. It's just not. However you've birthed, I don't care if you ran up until you had a baby. I wish more people said, my vagina is not craving that. My vagina is not ready for that. My vagina was not ready at six weeks to do anything high impact. And actually, that's why we cause damage long term. If you think about any other surgery, if we had a knee operation or a hip replacement, we would have this process of recovery. we'd be having time off work we'd be resting and sleeping and giving ourselves a protein to help us recover we have a baby and however we've birthed our baby there is major healing sometimes major surgery to be recovered from yeah we're sleep deprived we're nutritionally deprived we're bleeding and at six weeks we suddenly expect us to be like oh tick you're fine off you go absolutely not we have we need that same recovery process we need that nurturing and healing of our pelvic floor or our abdominal wall and it's all going to be slower because of everything else that we've got to factor in in postpartum and it's a healing that we've never experienced before yeah so you know learning how to heal from that is a very different thing and i i think that actually every time i came to it with my three births i completely forgot what what i did the previous time yeah and i wish i'd remembered it like stuff like i knew that i bathed in a certain thing and i couldn't remember what i had bathed in or if i had bathed or you know i mean i discovered was bits for bits and then that changed everything for me eventually but um it is that thing of not remembering and trying to relearn every single time yeah yeah and I think every birth is also different so it's really hard and what your body might need at that point may be different to that point and every journey is different but actually respecting realistic time frames is so important and knowing that that period it's not about bounce back it's about rebuild it's about rebuilding strength and you can come back stronger you can come back you know a much better version of you and you'll find your new you but it does take time and I think it's okay and it's okay to find it hard because it is really hard it's really hard it's hard to admit that though isn't it when when your baby is something that's that you love so much that you know that other people long for that you know everyone when everyone says you must be so happy you must be so excited yeah yeah yeah you know yeah yeah you feel like and it's same sometimes with pregnancy isn't it like you've got to be so grateful that you're carrying a baby or that you've had a baby and of course you are but that doesn't have to be in isolation we can feel like gratitude and pride and happiness alongside being like wow this is jarring this is hard this is intense and with the hormones at that time and with the hormones and just that whole especially with your first your whole identity has just changed like that like who am i what does this mean for me and i i sort of found this myself but also when I speak to other women is those first few weeks there's like adrenaline and you're like look at my beautiful baby and everyone's kind of coming around and your partner might be on like paternity or maternity leave and it's like this wonderful bubble and then like two three weeks down the line everyone goes back to work everyone else's lives go on and you're sat there like oh this is mine and what does this look like and I remember probably about three four weeks postpartum with my first being like I've never felt lonely before but right now I feel really lonely which is ironic because I am never on my own and I'd really like to be on my own but it's those those kind of conflicting emotions we can feel them together and I think that's okay we need to be able to say that that's okay absolutely I ask you to bring in your three most asked questions that's what we do on parenting ss you've sent some in yeah number one is how can I stop my baby going over due yeah so I get this all the time and I think it leads into that thing of people don't want an induction yeah like fear around induction of labor can i just say i had an induction for one of mine and it was absolutely fine yeah yeah and loads of them are and actually they can be beautiful positive empowering parts of supporting your birth journey like they absolutely can but yeah a lot of people are like i want to go into spontaneous labor i want to experience that or i want to avoid starting my labor with some kind of medical intervention which makes perfect sense right like in an ideal world it makes total sense but the thing we have to remember is we don't get to choose right so we think the thing that triggers labor is our baby releasing a substance from their lungs that then causes contractions and so forward so we can't control when they do that that is completely out of our hands what we can control is how ready how prepared we feel when that happens so always try and shift that focus if you cannot stop your baby going over to you you can just do the thing so that when they're like right mum today's the day your body is primed ready psychologically you feel ready you've got like your toolbox of tools and techniques to support the process but you cannot dictate when they come and sometimes we need to just lean into that and lean into that like okay I can't control that this is what I can focus on because the more we try and control it the more stressed we are it's just not gonna happen that's just life isn't it like it's always the way again it's that stress thing right we know that stress is not gonna help any muscles relax or anything exactly yeah yeah so like lean into the fact that you can't control all that and focus on the things that you can do so that when that time does come you're in that best place to then move forward with it so is all the pineapple curry sex or is all that stuff nonsense well there is a little bit there is a little bit of something so the pineapple and curry stuff yeah basically you're trying to create some diarrhea nice it's glamorous yeah but when your bowels are irritated your uterus can be irritated so sometimes but these things are only going to have any impact or sometimes work if like your body was ready anyway yeah so if it was a case of instead of an induction of labor eat five pineapples no one would be having an induction of labor right we'd all just be smashing the pineapples so the sex thing i quite like this one okay okay but feel free to disregard this if you're thinking piff i am not having sex at 41 weeks of pregnancy thanks very much so we know that semen contains prostaglandins and for families looking into induction they know that often the first line is prostaglandins right as a hormone that goes in the vagina so semen can be your natural prostaglandin should you wish okay also so is it not necessarily the the actual act of sex is it just that so it's the prostaglandins but if you have good sex this is the difference okay okay good sex that causes an orgasm releases oxytocin.

42:35A lot of pressure in that moment. But if it's not good, you've only got 50 % of the advantage. But also, again, good for people to have guidelines going into this. Okay, if this is going to be a quick bang, thank you, ma 'am. No, thank you. Yeah, it's not going to do the job. But if we're going to take our time and actually make sure the job's done, then happy days. I always say I think about other ways of inducing oxytocin. So like I would have like a co-bath with my first son when I was pregnant with my second like other things that when you feel like oh that that gives me oxytocin doesn't always have to be sex yeah unless you wanted to be in which case crack on okay this is good another question will my vagina be the same after I had a baby this is such a taboo one but I think it's important that we're really honest yep because I think it's fair to say that vaginas once you've had a baby are different yep doesn't mean they don't work it doesn't mean you're going to have like pain or incontinence or you're never going to have a great sex life again.

43:33But they just are different because the vaginal walls and your labia through a vaginal birth stretch enormously. Your cervix changes drastically. So there's great advantages to that in that if you go for a smear test, for example, once you've had a baby or you have a coil fitted, often your cervix is much easier to find. And we can definitely tell the difference between a cervix that's given birth and a cervix that hasn't. But also your vaginal walls are often looser. The more babies you have, the more that can kind of exacerbate. Pelvic floor work is really important, as is deep core work, because those things are really, really connected.

44:08When you first have your baby, honestly, sometimes it feels like everything's falling out of your vagina. That's okay. That's really normal. I got my midwife to check that it wasn't all falling out. I went back into an obstetrician and was like, I've definitely got a prolapse. She was like, you've definitely got postnatal vagina. I was like, thank you. Thanks for confirming. but it's in that first instance it does feel like everything's falling out it's never going to be the same again everything's edematous and swollen and the reason why i'm a massive advocate for pelvic health examinations after six to eight weeks and not before is i think if we were doing like mummy omites or pelvic health exams on women pre-six weeks we would be diagnosing prolapse left right and center yeah because a mild prolapse is very similar to a normal postnatal recovering vagina.

44:54If you had a tear anywhere else in your body, you'd expect it to be swollen and edematous and those tissues take time to heal. It's exactly the same. So initially it feels very odd. But then over time, those tissues will always be a little bit more stretched. We can do lots of rehab, but often women will just notice there's a difference in their vagina, but it shouldn't impact function. So if you're feeling like, actually, I can't insert tampons anymore, or sex is really painful or I'm having some kind of leaking or incontinence or you've maybe got like a nodule of tissue on your vagina, then it's really important to speak to your GP, get signposted to a professional because these things aren't normal.

45:34So they're common, but they're not normal and there is support and care around it. So yes, it might feel different, but it shouldn't impact your function in your life. I feel like conversations around women's pelvic health have only really been happening in the last few years. totally agree yeah and it feels like there's a massive shift because it is something that's happening to you that is so private it feels embarrassing it feels like you're letting out a massive secret yeah you know what i mean and it just doesn't feel like a nice thing right and it feels like a thing that's full of shame yes but we shouldn't feel that shame because our body has done something do you know what i mean it's that very weird like our our vaginas shouldn't be the same as they were before it just you know but there is so much emotion that comes alongside that that makes it really difficult to even take that step to go to your GP or to find someone that can help you yeah and I think it is like the Cinderella almost of the system that like postnatal when I had my first I was a really keen runner and I was like I want to get back into running that's important to me it's part of my identity still not sure I'm quite there mind but anyway how's it like and I was like I want to you know I'm an evidence-based practitioner I want to do it right I want to protect my body so I was like trying to like piece it together and I was like there's nothing out there like there's just nothing out there so I actually specialized in pelvic health at that time I went and did some master's work and became a specialist in pelvic health and started doing some work privately and in the NHS around pelvic health for families because it is we're like we're just scratching the lid but it's so important that we keep opening those conversations and being honest and I think part of birth prep is prepping for this stuff so that you don't look at your tummy when you've had a baby and be like, why do I still look pregnant?

47:12Yeah, it's jelly. And why do I feel like everything's coming out of my vagina? And it almost reduces our self-confidence at a time where we've just done the most phenomenal, life-transforming thing that we could ever possibly do. Yeah. I was surprised to find out that those, the pelvic floor exercises should be done all the time. Not all the time, but I mean, for life. For life, yeah. Because I went to my GP and she was like, yeah, but you still have to do them. I'm like, oh. Oh, I thought it was just like another thing, post-birth, have a few, get the little squeezy app. Yeah, tick them off, job done.

47:44I know. It's a bit like, I would say, we don't just go to the dentist when we've got a problem. We brush our teeth so that we don't have to. And it should be the same with our pelvic floor exercises, our teeth brushing. And you can do them while you're brushing your teeth. I mean, I'm sure people listening right now will be doing them. I would. Keep squeezing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And men should do them too, just as an FYI. Another question is, why am I leaking urine in pregnancy slash postpartum? Yes. So urine leakage is enormously common in pregnancy and post-birth forever. We're not just talking about in the first few weeks.

48:17Like, I'll see women in clinic who are three, four years postpartum and are still leaking urine. It is, again, not something we should be ashamed of. It just highlights there is some kind of injury or some kind of imbalance that needs rehabbing. like if we broke our ankle we might have some repair and then we know oh it's a bit it's a bit you know still a bit tight i need to do this rehab that's us for our pelvic floor so it's not a shame but it's not something you need to live with it's common leakage but it's not normal so we should be able to jump on a trampoline after we've had children and not be wetting ourselves like we should be able to do that it can be typically two different things which is why it's so important that women see a professional in person ideally because it can either be a weakness or a tightness, which is very difficult because they present with very, very similar symptoms.

49:06So without a physical assessment, it's really hard to kind of tell what camp you fall into. And I'm definitely seeing a bit of a trend in that if we have leakage, women think my pelvic floor must be weak. So they do loads of squeezes. And actually in today's world where we've got loads of anxiety, loads of rushing around, loads of busyness, our pelvic floors are connected to our shoulders and jaw. So if you're someone that's constantly like tense jaw, tense shoulders, rushing, your pelvic floor is on. All of the time, your shoulders are tense or your jaw's tense, your pelvic floor is. So we create this like tension and your pelvic floor needs to work like a spring.

49:41So it needs to be able to like give a bit, bounce back a little bit to work well, to function, to not leak urine. So if that spring is like tight and tightly compressed, when we put any extra pressure on it, when we jump, laugh, cough, it hasn't got that give and that's where we get leaking. So it's really hard without a physical assessment to be like, right, this is the issue. But I think it's really important to highlight that leaking isn't something we should live with as women just because we've had babies and we can do something about it. I think there are so many things like that that women just think.

50:12Just live with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, I've had a baby, so of course I'm going to wee when I go on a trampoline. But also it's one more thing, isn't it? It's one more thing on your to-do list. so I have to go and get this watered out. And, you know, and it just feels like... Yeah. And do you know what? Often when I speak to, like, pelvic health professionals, they'll say my most common, like, influx of women is when they are about five years postpartum and that's because children go to school. Yeah. And it's the first time when you're like, right, my body. Like, actually, there's a problem here.

50:43And you get that moment of breather and space to actually do something about it. And that's okay. it's never too late it's never too late so if you're like eight years postpartum and there's still some kind of injury whether that's with your abdominal wall or with your pelvic floor that's okay it can still it can still be worked on it's not a case of once you've missed six weeks that's it it's like you just have to live with it absolutely not also the fact that it's one of your most asked questions just shows how yeah how common it is yeah but most asked in private right like it's one of those and that's why i was like let's talk about these things in public yeah let's lift the lid on all of that all of that stuff absolutely uh we've also asked some of the happy mom happy baby community to send in some of their questions so i'm going to put some of these to you now one is when do you start to enjoy motherhood more currently three months postpartum oh that's so hard isn't it i think like we've spoken about that initial period like hormonally physically emotionally spiritually sleep everything is you're in the depths like You're absolutely in the depths.

51:47And I think there's an element of that that is normal. It is an enormous transition and we're not going to love every aspect of it. And that's OK. But there's also element of, OK, where do we need more support now? So if you're three months postpartum and you're like, every single day, I do not want to get out of bed. Every single day is a big old struggle. I just cannot wait for it to end. I am not enjoying any of this. I do not feel bonded with my baby. I don't want to get out of the house. That's a red flag. But actually, this might be more than just not enjoying it. Yeah. And then I'd be recommending that you speak to a health visitor or your GP and get some support.

52:24And there's no shame in that. We're not meant to do it alone. So people feel like there's this ideal that they're meant to be. They're meant to be these perfect mums. So for a lot of women to actually go around, to go to that health professional and actually lean on them. Yeah. I think most people, I know I certainly did. I felt like if I say anything, they're going to take my baby away. if I don't present as a perfect mum right now that's him gone and so I think there's this weird stigma that stops mums from vocalising but actually those professionals are there to help. Or this idea again that we should enjoy it, you're so lucky you've got a healthy baby, why aren't you enjoying every aspect of it but for loads of families that isn't the case and actually you can enjoy it, you might just need some more support, some more sign posting, so if it is like a constant thing then I'd be like okay let's let's rack in that support it's really really important if it's like a case of everything is fine I'm just I thought I'd really love it and actually maybe I don't it's really common loads of women think like I'm gonna absolutely adore the newborn period but actually it's it's intense it's 24 7 it's a lot you can't fully prepare for what that's going to look like for you and your baby and how your whole life your priorities has just completely changed and so some mums don't love the early bit they don't love the first three months the first six months the first year even yeah but once they've got a child that can talk back to them or give them smiles or give something back because it's a lot of giving the people there isn't it i'm going to give you every bit of me 24 7 and you don't do anything like like all you do is poo and be sick like doesn't cry and cry yeah like it's not very even so actually as you start getting a bit of personality and start getting a bit of something back often that will change but I think it really depends on like how significant this is if it's really impacting your day-to-day and your ability to bond with your baby definitely get professional support and that's a strength getting support and saying actually I want to be doing I want to be feeling more capable I want to be feeling more positive right now that's a strength to actually take that first step and get support And hopefully realising again that the fact that this is asked and put out there, it's not just you.

54:40You're not on your own if you're having these feelings. There have been many women before you in this position. There will be many women after. So never feeling like it's you that's wrong, that there's something wrong with you or that you've failed. Absolutely. And it's really hard. I found the newborn period hard because it is really hard. It's OK. I don't think I've met a mum yet. I don't know about you, G, but I don't think I've met a mum yet that's loved every aspect of their newborn period. Like every single aspect. If I have, I kind of go, you're just not ready to tell me yet. Yes, exactly.

55:13That's what I have in my head. Do you really love being woken up every hour overnight? Do you love that? Do you? Because I don't. Another person has asked, is there anything women can do to prepare themselves for the hormone changes after birth? Oh, I love this. So I think, first of all, being aware of it. I think just being aware of it's really important so that it doesn't knock you for six. So if you know there's going to be a time, typically around day three to five, where you're just all of a sudden, it kind of hits you almost like a ton of bricks sometimes, that you're just going to feel really emotional, really overwhelmed.

55:49Everything's just going to feel hard and you're going to be really teary. And you know that that's a normal part of the process. That can take away a lot of that. Because often we just worry, don't we? Because otherwise it can feel like it comes out of nowhere and it's just you. Yeah, and that's how it's going to be forever. But actually knowing it's very often it is temporary and just knowing that it's coming and knowing that on those days you're just going to need a bit of extra TLC. So whether I remember my husband drove home from work with like a hot chocolate and a little cake and that was just like, oh, everything suddenly feels all right now.

56:18You know, like those little bits of TLC or those little bits of extra support that you can rally round for that kind of day three to five is really important. just knowing that it's coming and knowing the things that make you feel good and plan for that. Part of our birth plan should be almost like postnatal survival. So what am I going to need? What's helpful? Are you someone that likes having people around and wants your visitors to come and help you that day or are you someone that wants to lock the door on that day? And also, I guess, being able to change your mind about things like that. Steph Douglas wrote an amazing blog once about pulling the drawbridge up and actually if you need to, say no to people.

56:54This is your time to kind of remember that this is your time to heal and to feel and to figure out your way without feeling like it's a spectator sport where everyone else is there just watching you get on with it or enjoying the nice bits of, you know, holding your baby whilst, you know, you're running around giving tea. Nothing more annoying than that when someone takes the baby and then you have to make them a cup of tea and you're like, what is this? Like, no, I don't want you to come and hold my baby. Like, I don't want you to do that. I can do that. The baby was fine either in the cot or in my arms.

57:29One more question. How long is it normal to have night sweats and hot flushes for after birth? This lady is 10 months in. I'm going to assume that this lady is breastfeeding if she's still having sweats 10 months postpartum because for the kind of... I remember it so well, it is gross. You just wake up like either leaking milk or you're sweating. So is that moment where you're like, I think I might not wear a bra tonight or I think I might not wear my pants tonight. I think I'm just going to go for sleep. Then you wake up and you're just in a pool. Just wet. Like it's actually... I feel like night sweats and postnatal hair loss are another two taboos that no one talks about, don't they?

58:07Like suddenly you're sweating and all your hair's on the pillow. Yeah. That's awful. Half old. So typically it's like a couple of months. But when you're breastfeeding, because those hormones are heightened, you've got more hormones running to produce milk, it can go on for much longer. I'd say if you get to like a year and you're still having loads of postnatal sweats, I would probably just pop to the GP just to make sure there's no imbalances or anything else going on. But it's very common postpartum to have night sweats and you do just wake up sweating like you've been sat in a sauna, but it's them hormones again.

58:42I just can't believe that we go through all this, then we have a tiny little gap and then we go into perimenopause. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I just feel like this feels so cruel. Yeah. I feel like as women, we spend our life trying not to get pregnant. Yeah. Then trying to get pregnant. Then dealing with the realities of pregnancy and birth. And then we're like, oh, hi, many people. Let's do it all again. Yeah. We got the raw deal in so many ways. But also, we get to grow and birth humans. Which is absolutely incredible. Like, we are phenomenal. We end the podcast with you answering a couple of sentences.

59:14Okay. The first one is, if I could tell you one thing it would be. One thing it would be that your birth isn't just one day. It's going to shape you as a human. You're going to reflect back on these memories forever. So plan it like you would plan a wedding or a holiday or something that really matters to you. I love that. And finally, I'm happy when? I'm happy when I've got my boys all around me. I'm so outnumbered by them and I absolutely love it. I love it. I absolutely love that. And I love that you've kind of like now have seen birth from the other side, you know, as well. and do you feel like that's informed you at all?

59:48Has it changed how? I don't know. I don't know that it has because my experience with my boys were very similar. They were born in the same pool, in the same room. That's true. No one's going to have experienced everything. There's lots of experiences with women that I can't relate to immediately myself. So I don't think it's changed me as a midwife but it's made me feel like it's even more important. Like it's just heightened how important it is that we do all this work and we do all this, like open up these conversations and we get it right for families. Yeah. Before you go, Pip, tell me about your book.

1:00:24Yeah, Midwife Pip's Guide to a Positive Birth. I joke that it's my third baby because I wrote it very early pregnant with my second at 4am in the height of being sick. But it was like, this is how passionate I was about getting a book out there that didn't just gloss over the airy, like keep it airy-fairy or gloss over the stuff that I think is important, but went into the depths of induction of labour for all sorts of different reasons and how to protect your body and pelvic health and way more in-depth about the stuff that I see makes a difference to families. And then it was published just before my second baby was born.

1:00:57So a real passion project, but I'm really proud of it. I'm really proud of it. I feel like it can make such a big difference to people at such an important time. And yeah, the messaging in it really is prepare, not scare, but don't rose tint things. Be honest because I feel like we deserve that. I love that. I love that so much. I think it's so important. I think for some people, the idea of being informed is scary. For other people, it's a necessity. Yeah, and I think if being informed is scary, you've just not been informed in the right way. Yes. So true. I was like, what's scary about it? Okay, well then let's unpick that.

1:01:33We just haven't... Because if you're pregnant, that baby's going to come out. So you have to know about the things that might happen. 100%. And I think sometimes, yeah, we're scared of tiptoeing into those things that might trigger those other questions. So we just, oh, that won't happen to you, or don't worry, just think positive and you'll be okay. But what if you are one of those one in three that has an induction, or one in three that has a cesarean, and actually we need to talk about that stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Pip, thank you so much. Thank you.

1:02:09Thank you.