Adele Roberts: Bowel cancer, marathons, and mashed potato

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and this is the show that shares knowledge so we can all look after ourselves better. Today, I'm chatting to Adele Roberts. I'm not only grateful for having a stoma for saving my life, but also it helped me have a better relationship with my body. I feel bad that I've been so down on myself all these years, almost not appreciating what I had. I always felt odd. I always felt like I didn't look how I should. Having the stoma, it almost helped me disassociate from my body in the sense that I could look at it as this amazing thing that I'd been given by the universe to keep me alive.

0:39Like, I have the privilege of living in this body. This body has kept me alive. This body has survived cancer. Adele is an award-winning DJ, broadcaster, and now marathon runner. In October 2021, Adele was diagnosed with bowel cancer. And in the months that followed, she, alongside her partner Kate, publicly shared the challenges of chemotherapy and life with a stoma, which is affectionately named Audrey. Just 18 months later, she ran across the finish line of the London Marathon, setting a new Guinness World Record as the fastest female with an ileostomy. Absolutely phenomenal. She also, by the way, had literally the worst night just before, up at all hours with Audrey misbehaving.

1:26And you'll hear that story in this chat. She's written a bloody brilliant book called Personal Best. It's part memoir and part self-help and I really think it's going to be such a useful compass for so many people navigating life's biggest challenges. In this case Adele's was cancer but the mindset she's learnt is applicable to so many situations. This chat with Adele feels really important. She doesn't shy away from the details in her story. It's vital that we know the symptoms of bowel cancer. It's vital that we understand the reality of going through chemo. And it's vital that we can see from Adele's experience that the most awful circumstances can bring about amazing, unexpected, positive change.

2:24seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either three or six milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tight and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving.

2:58Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today.

3:23be warned i have an incredibly croaky throat during this chat so i'm going to scratch my way through it let's do it here's the show

3:54Oh, Adele, I'm so thrilled to be having this chat with you today. Me too. I'm buzzing to be here first. Good to see you. I love your jumpsuit. Oh, thank you. That's so nice. I tried to not crease it in your honour. I tried to be presentable. You're sat like this. I will not move. I'm not in black for a change. Oh, it's so good. I have to apologise. I sound like I've been out on the razz. I haven't. I've just got no voice and that's not good in my job. So I'm going to scratch my way through this chat. You talking is much more important than me on this one. So we're just going to go with it. Well, I'm so thrilled to have you here.

4:31Congratulations on your amazing book. I've got a proof copy, not the real one. This is early days. I've got a proof of the book, Personal Best. How does it feel to have a book that you have completely poured your heart and soul into right there? To see your hand holding my book that I've not even seen yet. So you've got that before me. Which is not cool or fair. I feel really bad about that. I'm so sorry. No, I'm really happy that you've read it and I'm excited to hear what you think of it. But I think I never dreamed somebody like me would be able to write a book and also have things in there that hopefully help people.

5:09So I'm thrilled. It's so helpful. It's so funny. like you have got such a great tone when you're writing i was cracking up the award for best opening to a book ever goes to you now because my voice sounds like utter shit could you please read the opening three lines of your book for us amazing okay 18 months ago i thought i was gonna die i thought i was a dead woman walking now ian beal from eastenders is eyeing up my waffles best opener to a book ever I was like I'm in I'm in whatever happens next I don't care I'm in it's so but that is you set the tone from the start that this is a really thoughtful book and it's really raw but it also has so much humor in there and I'm imagining like most people that have been to hell and back humor is so important in changing perspective in finding the little glimmers of light amongst the darkness how has that helped you no totally I think it's essential in my life I think that um if you don't laugh you'll cry and and you won't stop crying and and there's bits in the book where I talk about grief and losing someone really close to me and I went in a very dark place for a very long time like decades and I didn't want to make that mistake this time around so I think I've learned to um roll with the punches that life gives you try and laugh it off and go again oh my god Well, you have and you're doing that.

6:40And it's a beautiful thing for us all to read about and learn about and to hear these stories. That's why I love doing this podcast, because it is simply storytelling and what we've learned and what me and the listeners can take heed of is so, so essential. So let's let's rewind back to October of 2021, where you heard the words that nobody wants to hear. It's cancer. What had led you to the doctors in the first place? because this is a really important part of the book and your story, the symptoms that led you to that doctor's room. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for making sure we start with this because it's the most important part of the book.

7:16I just hope that people that need to hear this, hear it and it gets to those people. So I was ill for a long time, but I couldn't tell. I felt like I was in the best shape of my life. I was running a lot. I was quite small, so I was losing weight. That's one sign of bowel cancer. I didn't know that was a symptom. I used to get quite sort of like bloated tummy a lot when I'd eat, but I thought that was because I wasn't cooking my food properly because I'm not the best cook. So I blame that on myself. And then eventually what happened was when I'd go to the toilet and do a poo, I noticed that there were bits of blood and I just thought, again, that was my cooking, but it started to build up and be more and more.

7:56And it was around the time of COVID and I just didn't want to bother the NHS because I knew they were like overloaded and I just thought oh it all sort itself out and then when it happened more regularly I just thought no this doesn't feel right this feels like it's a bit too much and and by the way for anybody that's wondering maybe they've spotted a bit of blood in their poo it wasn't much it wasn't like lots of blood it wasn't massive clots it was just little bits at the time so if you're worried about anything please do speak to your doctor so I called up the NHS but because of Covid it took them about six weeks I think to get somebody to call me back so I'd kind of been placed onto this system but I think to them hearing about blood was a trigger for them as well so they eventually called me back and then got me an appointment and when I went to see my GP she said you're quite young I think I was 42 at the time she said because you're under 50 I don't think it's anything serious like cancer I think you've piles and I was like yeah it'd be piles it'd be something like that but she said I'm just going to send you for a test just in case and if she hadn't have done that I might not be here so essentially in that moment that decision I think saved my life and she gave me a fit test and all I had to do was give them a sample of me going to the toilet send it off and then it was about two weeks after that and they said oh you just go to the hospital to have a colonoscopy where they just basically assess you and put a camera up your bottom i've had it done oh really do you know i had blood in my poo i think we've got to just talk about this stuff plain speaking yeah yeah and i went and had a colonoscopy because i just thought i i want to know i that's brilliant and luckily everything's fine thank god yeah but you've got to check it out absolutely got to check it out yeah people get so scared adele what do you do to get over that fear of well you know i'm embarrassed i feel weird about this i don't want to go to the doctors and tell them this i feel vulnerable how do you get over that yeah well said I always used to be one of those people that didn't want any symptoms of cancer because I didn't want to know but now I realize it's your body asking for help and it's it's almost just like having a notification on your phone it's like somebody's like sending you a message so please know that the doctor wants to see you that they're not going to judge you they've seen it so many times before it's it's what they do it's what they're trained to do they're there to help you we're lucky to live in a country where we have access to free healthcare go and get seen because that's how we beat cancer by early detection because it will save your life so yeah don't be shy get in there um so yeah I had the colonoscopy and um it was shortly after that that I got taken in to see the surgeon and he said yeah you've got cancer and I was just like I think I say it in the book um I remember thinking hey you think I've got cancer it can't be cancer but okay weird you know just it just felt so strange because I just thought surreal yeah how do you mean you can't process that in that moment that is a lengthy process for you to get your head around the fact that you've got this diagnosis and it means certain things for the immediate future it's so much to get your head around one of the other things that you questioned in that exact moment because you've got all of these thoughts whirring you ask the doctor is it my fault which I think is a very normal reaction but it also maybe seems like that's certainly my personality type but is that your personality type to think I'm accountable it must be something I've done absolutely yeah I totally thought that I'd caused it that um I'd been negligent yeah I just wanted him to tell me the reason why I had cancer so it must have been something I'd done yeah my first thought was am I gonna die because again another reason I wanted to write the book is to to show people that there are lots of ways that obviously I don't want anyone to ever hear the words you got cancer but it doesn't it's not an immediate death sentence there's a lot of things that they can do especially if they get you early but once he kind of said he could help me that's all I hung on to then I just thought I've got hope I've got a chance and if I've got a one percent chance I'll take it and I'll run with it and and like you say and then it was oh hang on it must be my fault and then he um he said it's not and it and that's when the emotion came out of me that's when I cried because I just thought um yeah getting emotional now but I just thought yeah I'd done it to myself I think it's so normal I think that you know that's that's the predicament we're in we feel so accountable for everything in life and actually how wonderful that you had such a brilliant doctor who could say no and I'm here to help you I'm going to take that away from you I'm going to make this as as smooth and easy as I can for you yeah and and I think taking that shame away I think shame stops me ringing in the first place because again it's your bottom and it's poo and you don't want to talk about poo so yeah please try and let the shame go if if anybody's listening to this now and it resonates please this is your message this is why you're hearing this this is why Fern got me here today don't feel shame you've not done anything do not feel guilty go and get seen get the help yeah like you say it's early detection is imperative it's game changing it's game changing and thank goodness that was the case for you that I know you obviously had an excruciating week to wait to find out what stage you were at yeah and how do you navigate that those seven big empty days of waiting that's horrendous yeah you're right it was a weird thing so they said they thought it was stage two but it could be stage three and if it was stage three it would have meant that it'd gone through the walls of my colon and it could possibly be moving around my body and I thought well I need to tell my mom and dad but I can't tell them because I don't know everything about the cancer yet.

13:32So I'm going to have to wait until I get the results. And that was about a week. And in that week, life goes on. You know, you go into that hospital as one person, you come out totally different, but the world's still the same. So you still have to go and DJ. I had to go and record an episode of Celebrity Mastermind. Just what you want to do with that going on. Yeah, totally. I mean, I didn't have to, but I chose to try and keep things as normal as possible because I thought in this week, I might, once I get the results, I might not be able to live my life the same way again mentally. So just try and enjoy this week.

14:07And I think in a weird way, it helped retrospectively. And I also thought just do your best to get through this week so that you can tell your mum and dad, because I wanted to tell them more than anything to tell them that if I had a chance, I'd give it everything to be around for them. it's so full on and it it seems like from reading the book that was your mentality you would just keep on as normally as you could for as long as you could and you were still going to work you were still putting yourself out there to the public which is a whole other bag of onions that requires energy and another mindset but that helped you to keep busy would you say yeah totally um that's the sort of person I am um there's lots of instances in the book of all the way through my life how I just try and focus on the positive because I really believe that if you put your mind in a negative place it'll drag you down yeah so I understand you can't control what happens to you in life but you must try and control the way that you respond and if you can give yourself that little bit of hope if you can keep looking forwards or you can keep looking at the positives to me that's what helps me get through yeah I mean you can see through the book like that you had that mindset in so many ways.

15:20And we're going to get to running a bit further down the line, which seems to have a very similar mindset, actually, to everything that you've just been through. The other really important point that you make and something that you've certainly educated me on more so and many other people are stomas. So how much did you know about stomas before you had cancer? Yeah, nothing. And I always say now I'm not ashamed to have a stoma. I'm ashamed I didn't know what one was. I knew what a colostomy bag was, or at least I thought I did. I just knew it was a way of going to the toilet, but I didn't know that a stoma is an opening on the body that's been made by surgery.

15:55So yeah, I didn't have a clue. And the day that I got diagnosed with cancer, the doctor said, you might have to have a stoma as part of the surgery just to help you recover. And I remember thinking, yeah, fine. I just didn't really sort of like register it because there was so much going on. I was just like, cool. All right. Well, good. it's all part of the treatment. Great. And it wasn't until I met my stoma nurse that I started to learn a bit more about them that I was like, oh, they're interesting things. I just thought I didn't know until I had the surgery to remove my tumour if I'd get one or not.

16:27It was a case of they'd operate on me, see how big my tumour was, see how much work they had to do to fuse my colon back together and potentially give me a stoma. So until I woke up, I didn't know if I'd have one or not. And I thought, I'll just deal with that if it happens. Yeah. Now it's really interesting reading about your stoma because it's actually given you a hell of a lot. And I had underestimated this. One thing you say is that it actually has changed the perception you have of your own body for the better. Can you tell us a bit about that and why you think that's happened? Yeah, absolutely.

16:59I'm not only grateful for having a stoma for saving my life, but also it helped me have a better relationship with my body. I feel bad that I've been so down on myself all these years almost not appreciating what I had I think there's a lot of reasons for that but I think one of the reasons is not really seeing people like me when I was younger on tv and on radio and that's changed now which is brilliant but I always felt odd I always felt like I didn't look how I should and yeah unfortunately we didn't really have mirrors in our house as well when I was growing up so I didn't really get to see myself and when I did I used to be like, I just didn't like myself.

17:39And having the stoma just made me go. It almost helped me disassociate from my body in the sense that I could look at it as this amazing, wonderful thing that I'd been given by the universe to keep me alive. Like I have the privilege of living in this body. This body has kept me alive. This body has survived cancer. and this body now has a piece of my intestine poking out and is still alive is still going and I was like you are amazing and it gave me that the moment I got it I was like I've been foolish all these years look how incredible the human body is do you know what I wouldn't feel too bad about thinking like that for so long because I think we're women and we are we have so little choice it seems sometimes as to how we feel about our own bodies we are bombarded constantly and probably more so back in the day you know you and I we were similarish age and we went through that whole period of like hate magazine shaming people and you know I was probably in that on that page you know I was definitely after Big Brother yeah I've got it I've got it a lot I had it after having babies and it's just like oh fuck off you know but it's but we were we've always been bombarded with it or even if you go back to sort of like 90s models and the whole aesthetic there and we're still bombarded with it now on Instagram and yes there might be slightly more body diversity online but I think there's still this weird pressure that it's meant to mean something more other than what you've just described it as which is this amazing vessel that keeps us alive yeah so I think most of us still really struggle with that and have days which are good days that are bad but some people have every day is a shit day with their body and they don't feel comfortable with it so I think the insight that you now have from the experience you've been through is such a beautiful gift that you know it's bloody hard one and it's not been easy but But to now have that comfort in your skin and to know that you have that gratitude for your body, that's what amazing progress.

19:30It's incredible. Yeah. And it's weird seeing my stoma for the first time. I almost felt like that's me. It's like I could see myself for the first time in my life. It was emotional. And I just thought I'm complete. That's how I should look. Wow. With a stoma, with a stoma bag, which is, yeah, I never had that on my bingo card for my life. But I mean, and you talk about this, the sort of complexities around, you know, it may get to the point where you have a stoma reversal and that isn't going to be a straightforward thing of you going, yay, I'm back to how I was before. That would feel like a loss to you.

20:03You know, you've named your stoma, which I think is a really wonderful way, again, of coping with the change and having that sort of almost humanizing what it is. Audrey, we all know and love Audrey. That's going to be a loss if Audrey goes. Absolutely. I think a lot of people who get stomas feel the grief of the loss of their old body when they get them. Like you say, for me, it'll be the loss of my stoma that will hopefully I've done the internal work now to be able to accept my body when it goes back to how it was. I also feel very privileged and lucky that I will have a scar to show where Audrey's been just as a reminder of what I've learned and how far I've come and to appreciate myself.

20:41um I talk a little bit about my mom as well and my sister in the book who have a condition ataxia which slowly takes away the use of their body both physically and mentally and again that's another reason why I appreciate that my body works because it could be so different there's no cure for ataxia whereas cancer I had so much help and with my stoma there's so much help so how could I ever complain you know well I think you've got a right to feel however you feel I think your mindset is outrageously brilliant and it's it's certainly got you to where you are the other interesting thing that the stoma has given you mindset wise was actually quite early on in your story after your operation where you were learning how to get along with your stoma and how to change your own bag and you had a night where you wept and that was new for you this was something that prior to you having cancer you would shove emotions down you would suppress how you were feeling so actually going through this whole situation has allowed you to go I'm allowed to ask for help and I'm jolly well allowed to cry I love that Ben thank you you're right you make me feel emotional now thinking about that um most of my life yeah I didn't cry and remember Kate saying when I had my tumor removed I um FaceTimed her she was the first person I FaceTimed after I'd woken up and she just said um that the light was back in my eyes and I really believe that that tumor being taken away took away so much negativity and so much like self-hatred and I'm so glad that piece of me is gone now because I feel like I'm almost like allowing myself to be the person I should have always been and crying is part of that I understand now crying is not a weakness it's strength you know it really is it's strong to show your emotions and I always had it twisted I had it the wrong way around and yeah if you know I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone and um and I'm sad that I had to put my family through that but it's given me that I'm gonna get you a tissue my babe thank you it's a bloody good thing to cry yeah it is a beautiful thing to do yeah thank you you No, we should.

22:55But I get it. You know, we're not we're not necessarily taught as kids to freely cry and to freely feel emotion. And I know that you went through certain things that probably pushed you down the wrong road even further. You talk about losing your auntie Maxine and how that was the start of something you've alluded to already in the chat, feeling a bit broken and not being able to access those emotions and actually feeling really shit and shit about yourself. So can you tell us a bit about Auntie Maxine, why she meant so much to you and then and how her loss impacted you? Yeah, my Auntie Maxine was amazing.

23:31She was my mom's sister and she was like a second mom to me. I just adored her. She was one of those people that lit up any room that she was in. She was so positive. She was powerful and beautiful and intelligent and she was all the things I wanted to be. and she was just cruelly taken away from us when she was only 42 she she was ill I think with pneumonia or that that's what the doctor said and within three days we'd lost her but it was just like a sudden shock and I think that in my life a lot of things have had happened to me that I sort of like just buried and got on with it but that one seemed to just like rock me the most it was almost like okay now I really understand life's not fair you know that really felt like a cruel trick that life had played on me and that felt bad feeling that way because I was like she's not even my mum like my cousins have just lost their mum and here's me feeling so sad but I just thought she just didn't deserve to be taken away you know in the prime of her life and yeah that one sent me off the edge and I just thought I'm done now I just did almost like it's not like I didn't want to be here anymore but I that's when hope went when I was yeah that's when I always had hope as a kid that things will get better but when auntie maxine died that was the day that hope died for me and so i went on big brother so that was just yeah i found this a really bizarre thing to do i tell i found this so interesting in the book you know we have our coping mechanisms and you know what thank you for explaining that because i really grief is so complicated and i really understand how you've just articulated it that you had this guilt because she wasn't your mum so you felt like you didn't have the right to have those emotions.

25:15And of course, when we go through something shocking and out of the blue, that cements a certain reaction to many things in life. So I totally get how you've gone down that road of, I just don't do emotion. I'm not going to, even if I'm feeling it, I'm not going to show it. And you talk about this extreme reaction, which was to go on Big Brother to escape the pain. Yeah. It makes sense. Absolutely. I was hiding in plain sight. Yeah. I just thought, I don't want to deal with life. I don't want the guilt of seeing my cousins and being upset and not being able to be there for them. So I'm just going to run away.

25:48Where can I run away too? And when I was feeling like that, I saw an advert for Big Brother and I just thought that'll do. And like, like you could just pick to be on Big Brother, but it just kept choosing me. They kept asking me back. So I was like, okay, cool. And because I was like young, I was like 22. I just thought, what's the worst that could happen what is the worst that could happen yeah but that's a whole nother book yeah i was hiding in plain sight i've run away from life that's the only way i think i could cope with it if you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change you really only need one good reason but with zin nicotine pouches you'll discover many good reasons zin is america's number one nicotine pouch brands.

26:36Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork.

27:15Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Businesses come in all shapes and sizes. Maybe you're a small business expanding into a new space, a mid-sized company planning for the future, or a large operation investing in the latest equipment. Whatever your needs, Atlantic Union Bank is here, providing easy access to knowledgeable bankers with local market insights and the right digital tools to keep your business moving forward. Because you deserve a relationship manager who cares. Call, visit us online, or stop by a branch today.

27:51Atlantic Union Bank. Any way you bank.

27:57So I'm very interested in this. So when you started to access that emotion and this and cancer being the catalyst and you having no choice, I have to let go. I have to surrender. I need to let this emotion up. Did you feel like the dam had been broken, like emotion was just flooding out of you at that point? Or was it an incremental thing that you had to get used to? Yeah, I have to get used to you. Like you say, the dam's broken, but I'm always getting used to it now. and I'm always having to allow myself to grieve, allow myself to feel. It's a daily process and a daily practice. So that is one bit of advice, hopefully, that can help people that maybe are like me that used to bury their feelings and not cry and not let them out.

28:42I think you've got to almost let the feeling flow through your body and just let it out. And one of the ways I do let my emotions out now is through running or walking or just expressing myself. But it is a daily practice. And I've had 42 years of doing it the wrong way. I've only had, how old am I, 45? Three years of doing it the right way. Yeah, a better way, a better way. So yeah, it is, I don't know about you, but you've got to always remind yourself, haven't you? You do. And actually, I'm okay at it, but I do always have that thought of, how dare you cry? Who do you think you are crying? People have got far worse problems.

29:18And I don't think that's helpful. No. I think it's our natural instinct because we are empathetic and we want to look out for other people and be aware that there are other things going on in the world. But I don't think that should mitigate what we're feeling. Absolutely. I don't think that's helpful. And I do think it's so healthy to cry, to feel angry and to let it out in a good way. Yes. To feel euphoric joy, even when bad things are happening in the world. We've got to be able to feel it all. We've got to. Like that is the natural human way. But I think like you say, it takes real practice.

29:52another part of the book that I think is extremely helpful for people that are either going through cancer at the moment have a friend or a loved one who has cancer um is talking about chemotherapy yeah which of course is incredibly common there will be many people listening to this podcast now who have had it or who are going through it or who have a loved one that are going through it and you talk brilliantly again about the excruciating discomfort that you go through with chemotherapy and actually a real emotional side that I maybe underestimated was that you felt like you were having bits of yourself taken away, vital, essential parts of yourself, the parts of you that made you, you felt like they were being pulled away from you.

30:38I'm sure that was something that you weren't necessarily expecting. Absolutely. And I didn't realise how, like you say, life-saving and essential chemotherapy is. I felt so grateful to be on it. But you're right, I wasn't ready for the cure to be the cause of so much pain and to almost be worse than having cancer. And daily as well, especially at nighttime. I think I talk about like the night terrors when it would really affect me, when my feet and hands would feel like they were burning, like they had hot pokers or somebody was like stabbing my feet. And you know that you need to feel this way.

31:14It's almost like a trial that you feel that you have to get through. but it also hurts you so much because your spirit which I think I tried to hold on to as much as possible is slowly being eaten away by this chemotherapy and eroded you know a sense of self is so important to be I think happy in life you know and to have my fingerprints slowly being erased I didn't know that happened that you educated me hugely on that yeah yeah so my fingerprints didn't work my hands hurt were so sensitive because of the neuropathy that was caused from the chemotherapy but then yeah my fingertips not working and it rearranged sort of like my facial features um it took away the hair on my body it burnt the skin on my face it gave me a black black spots on my tongue it it took away my um as I've walked uh through your house today the beautiful smells you know like your candles all the candles on yeah gorgeous smells but when you're on chemotherapy the things you love to smell and eat and taste you don't love it anymore and and sometimes it makes you feel sick and you're like it yeah it just slowly takes away everything that gives you joy so what got you through that period because that's bleak yeah and it's bleak for anyone going through it it's not fun how you know this goes back to a mindset what mentally enabled you to get through that?

32:38I think I just decided to stick to the things that my stoma nurse had given me which was walk for 20 minutes every day so I thought no matter how much your feet hurt Adele no matter how tired you are you must walk for 20 minutes a day because that is something you can control and that's something you can at least try to do and sometimes those walks ended up as shuffles sometimes I had to call Kate and be like my feet feel like they're on fire can you come and help me to get back home which happened a few times but I just thought if you can chalk off today get to the end of the day chalk it off don't worry if like you failed on some of the things that you try to set out to do you get up again tomorrow and you go again and it was that little bit of hope that kept me going so it was just understanding yes it was going to be tough but what can you achieve tomorrow can you get out of bed can you get yourself washed can you go for a little walk and just the thought of that was just my happy place and I know that sounds like really basic stuff but can you just try and do it I think I think happiness is the basic stuff I think it always comes back to it you know the amount of times I have well do this podcast and it's the basic stuff yeah it's the the everyday gratitude it's the everyday experiences that make us human that give us that happiness but I think when you've hit rock bottom or you've been through something extremely challenging and that's all you've got you really then start to realize this it these are the foundations for me to feel okay yeah um sorry there's just one more thing I've just thought of actually just in terms of mindset because some people might be listening to this and they can't physically do stuff my mindset was I thought if this is hurting me like this imagine what it's doing to that cancer so I just used to have like I used to almost do thought experiments and when I couldn't move I would just visualize the chemo going through my body into my bloodstream and just finding those cells and taking them out and that gave me so much happiness I was like yes destroy it's like call of duty but inside my head you know I was just like kill that cancer.

34:36Was there any moment during any of this lengthy experience where you lost hope? Yeah definitely there were a couple of nights where I was in so much pain that I did question why me I did feel sorry for myself I it had defeated me but then I just try and lie there and just try and get my mind back on track but yeah there were a few times when I was just like what have I done it was almost like I was um

35:04hi this is Knox from the podcast with Knox and Jamie and maybe like us at the podcast you also know people who have been smokers or vapors and zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either three or six milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

35:35Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today.

36:12Yeah, looking up to the sky to be like, why is this happening? What have I done? I just wished I could like, it felt like I was being punished for something and I was like, what is it? I'll apologise. I'll apologise straight away. Just please let me not feel this pain. But then I realised it was all part of me getting better. It was part of the process. and I think letting go of all of that guilt and shame that I held inside me for so many years. But yeah, it definitely got me a couple of the nights. Yeah, which again is the most normal thing. Yeah. I think you'd have to be a robot to get through it without having those moments of huge doubt and moments of surrender.

36:56Surrender, definitely. Yeah, that is such a beautiful word and that's another big lesson I've learned with all this. sometimes you can just lie back and let it wash over you yeah and sometimes that's the best thing to do until you can get yourself back on your feet again to go again yeah hey I really appreciate you talking about this because I know it's not easy to revisit these moments that were fucking awful and painful and soul-destroying but I know you want to be here because you know it's a helpful conversation to have for other people but I really appreciate it because I don't take it for granted that going back over this old stuff and things that you are still moving on from and moving with, it's not an easy thing to do.

37:36So I really, really appreciate it, Adele. Thank you. I'd love to talk about running. Yes. Especially as you are a Guinness World Record-breaking runner. What an accolade. I know, how brilliant is that? Oh, it's just fantastic. And I was whooping for joy reading all this brilliant stuff about the marathons. And you actually came to running very late in life. So you were 37, which, again, I think is a really important thing for people to hear. Not just about running, but anything, thinking you can't start something a little later down the line. You don't have to start something age 12. It can be down the line that you pick up an instrument, start reading for the first time, whatever the hell it might be.

38:14But it was running at 37. What took you to running? Yes. Amen. I just want to say that again, everybody that's listening. I know you know this already because of this brilliant podcast, but it's never too late to start again and to change your life. Absolutely. It was my sister, actually, that inspired me to run. My little sister. I just remember being lazy in bed one Sunday and seeing that she completed a race for life, a 5K, that she'd done for our auntie, who sadly also had cancer, who absolutely smashed it. My auntie Anne. She had breast cancer and she's 10 years clear of breast cancer. Yes, auntie Anne.

38:50Yes. she's one of my heroes and at that time I didn't know it was for me in the future but I remember seeing my sister doing this 5k and she did it from scratch I didn't even know how far a 5k was at the time I was like is that far and then when I realized it was 3.1 miles I was like I can't believe my sister's just done that no training just done it out of the passion in her heart and I just remember slobbing in bed probably in last night's pizza going oh god you can do better Adele like that's your little baby sister you should be doing something and that's when I think I started to turn my life around and was like right no more moping anymore um get yourself out of bed not that day I probably just don't a few weeks time I'll start this running thing but I think that's when it clicked and I was one of those people that'd be like I'll start Monday and then I didn't start Monday but eventually I did start the Monday yeah and starting running let's be honest isn't fun no it's not like all of a sudden you go I'm running 5k it's easy you know it takes time but it's worth persevering did you when did the mental side of it click in oh this feels good mentally because you know I'm certainly not running because it feels great physically sometimes I am but sometimes I think oh god everything hurts quite bothered but for my mind every damn time I get that mental clarity or even when it's post run I'm like oh something's just relaxed mentally at what stage in your running experience do you think that hit yeah it took a long time I just started with walking yeah I got a little um stepper band off my friend and I just used that and and it had like little challenges on it and I just worked my way up so once I'd started like walking I feel like it's almost like once you want to pick one part of your bad habits you can start to address the rest and just give yourself the time so once I started walking and that I was then like, oh, maybe I could start to tweak what I eat.

40:41And then I started to tweak what I watched and what I listened to and how I dress. That's so important, P.S. I think we forget about watching and listening to things. We don't put that in with food and exercise, but it is so important. Are you watching absolutely awful, violent, whatever it is stuff? Or are you watching things to inspire you? That's going to have an impact. Absolutely. Huge. Yeah. Anything that you take in through the senses could be helpful or it could be junk. So if you see TV as junk TV, just, yeah, if you try and see it like that, sometimes you'll start to get in tune with what makes you feel bad.

41:15And you'll be like, actually, I don't even like that program. It makes me feel rubbish. Does it give you joy or does it make you feel like absolute crap? Yeah, yeah. So it was a knock on effect, but it started with the walking and started, I started to see self-care as something that was good and not selfish. I think I used to think I was being selfish if I actually cared about myself. so I'll use anything I can now to make myself feel positive and to keep myself on track because again it's a daily practice there's a very lazy person inside of me that doesn't want to go running usually something like there's a some like a lazy sloth inside of you but you have to be like no no sloth we're running so it took a long time but eventually like you say even with the running I whinged and hated it and my first marathon my poor producer who worked with me at radio one they will tell you I whinged all the time.

42:02Like, honestly, I must have been such a nightmare. But once I'd done, once I'd got fit enough to not worry about my body, like you said, your mind's free. And you're like, oh, this is glorious. But it took a very long time. Yeah, it does. Which I think also ensures people don't give up if they're on the beginning of their running journey. Yeah. And there are some days still where you think, oh, this is awful. Totally. But it's still worth doing it. Amen. Still worth doing it. So let's talk about your most recent marathon because it was only 18 months after your life-changing operation where you were out there on the streets of London running a marathon with a stoma.

42:37I mean, and also at three hours 30. When you say that, I forget the time. What? I don't understand. Like, it's just mind-blowing. And I'm not saying that with any level of, you know, being patronising. Three hours 30 is fucking quick no matter what you've been through. three hours 30 is like you're a professional athlete no it is my personal best I'm like how could I run it faster with a stoma than when I had my intestines inside my body but but that's mindset for you and I think that's the difference because I had no business running that marathon that fast with the body that I had it wasn't in good nick it's even more fit now my body because I'm a year on.

43:22But that's mindset and that is belief and that is really going after something and committing to it. And I think that is me saying, I know you've sworn a few times, so I hope you don't mind, fuck you, cancer. It's like, no, just no. I just got myself to the point where I was like, I am not going through that chemotherapy and getting this stoma and it not mean anything. It's like, I'm going out in style. You know, it's just like... You did that. I mean, one of your friends, Ian, had said to you previously, running is 80 % mindset and you'd been a bit like oh blessy and yeah sure and actually you're like yes yeah totally true yeah it's not about it's a bit about your body you know you have to have a certain level of fitness but you can still get out there and run if you know if you are able-bodied and you can go and do that but actually what's going on in your brain is more important than anything amen and I think the mind leads and the body follows yeah and I think that goes through all areas of life and that's why I hope that this book can help people whether they are unfortunately dealing with cancer or they're about to get a stoma and they're not quite sure what it's going to be like um or maybe they're not a runner they're like I don't want to run because my girlfriend Kate does not want to run she's not interested in those chapters by your 330 not at all not at all I love it she knows who she is and she's cool with it I like that I like that but but I think life just throws those curveballs at you and I think that hopefully the mindset side of this book will help people no matter what they're facing you know whether it's like grief it's the end of a big relationship because I think that to to get through life and and what this podcast talks about a lot is mindset that's what I got from your book happy it's it's the mind no totally like that I mentioned a book reading challenge in in in my book and you're in there like you helped make this happen so thank you don't oh cry fucking hell yeah that means a lot and um and you're right it's it's it's mindset and it doesn't have to be about one specific thing it can be just about you want to get out of bed a bit earlier each day yeah or you want to stop gossiping or whatever it is it's it's mindset over everything and that's enabled you to do just the most incredible things and may we add on top of that the night from hell that you had before the London Marathon?

45:41Oh, God, yeah. I'm like, which night? Because Audrey's so naughty. I was reading this book and I felt sick for you because I am obsessed with sleep because it's not guaranteed with me. So I get really pernickety about, even if I've got a podcast, I won't go out and do anything in the evening before because it might disrupt. And that's too much. I know I've got to address the balance. I'm a work in progress. I'm very happy to say that. I've not mastered any of this stuff, but I don't trust myself. If I go out, if I get back, I'm overstimulated and then I start thinking about things. I won't sleep.

46:10It might mess up the podcast. I don't want to do that. So I'm really like nerdy about my routine and sleep and yada, yada. I can't imagine things going so tits up the night before a marathon and you still managing to do what you did. Tell us about this awful night. I was shaking reading this. Because you want the perfect night's sleep before a marathon. Without a doubt. That's what you want. you just want to sleep for eight hours it's not a massive ask oh mate so the night before it's a rookie era really for me but it's because I was making it up as I was going along there's not many people that have run a marathon with a stoma so I didn't know what to eat so I decided to eat mashed potato and porridge the night before because I thought normally okay with your stoma like what yeah yeah it's palatable with a stoma so it's easy digestible food um really if Audrey had her way I'd be eating sausage rolls anything beige like any processed food is really good because it's already been broken down by industry and you just almost like put it in your body and it melts away and it goes in whereas I can't really have like veg and fiber anymore anything with like a skin on I can't break it down because that gets done in the large colon which I can't use at the moment so it's almost like I have to have like just really easy to eat food so I thought right mashed potato and porridge oats I'll have that the night before and then I'll be okay and I'll be full of like glycogen ready to run the marathon.

47:35But Audrey didn't digest the porridge and the mashed potato and decided to chuck it out my body at three in the morning.

47:45I'm deep breathing. I'm deep breathing about this one. So you feel the tingle. I get woken up all the time by the tingles of Audrey. So I'm like, is she still in her bag or is she going wild? Has she managed to break the seal on the bag? because what what your stoma can do is stoma bags aren't an exact science and they're still being worked on so they stick to your body with like this sticker and if you have a naughty stoma sometimes they can get the sticker off and just escape and then it's basically like having an open tap on the front of your body it just comes out and you can't control it um and yeah so i'm like the exorcist spewing like porridge and mashed potato in a fancy hotel so i like jumped out of bed ran into the shower it's doing its thing spraying it all over the shower but then my my pajamas are ruined and then it got stuck in the shower so then I had to like the shower started flooding because it wouldn't go down the the plug hole so because it was fancy it was like one of those flushed the floor showers oh you want a shit shower in this situation not a fancy one and then it all comes out from like the shower door and it just like floods the actual bathroom so I'm there with no clothes on cleaning a posh hotel bathroom of like porridge oats and mashed potato at three in the morning and Audrey's just like yeah and then you can't get back to sleep yeah yeah so then I'm lying there thinking god it's three in the morning I need to be up at six what am I gonna do and that like you say that anxiety just keeps you awake then so I tried to go to sleep but I just pretty much lay there like that it's horrendous yeah but this is again a really important life lesson for any of us on just a regular day to not write off the success of a day because you haven't slept and I used to do this all the time I'd go oh well today's absolutely screwed because I didn't sleep and it's all going to go to shit and I'd be so dramatic and actually I'd get to the end of the day and go well that was all right yeah there's no drama I did the job and everything was fine and I'm a little bit more tired than I'd be normally but it's fine you not only managed to get over that you know the would be drama you managed to run a marathon in three hours 30.

49:56Now you're saying it I'm like how did that happen but it it did it did um actually do you have pictures in that book? Yeah. Oh did they put the picture in of me? Did they? Starkers. Oh did you did they put that one in? Yeah there's a You might have passed me by. Because I took a picture to show Kate what Audrey had done because I didn't want to wake Kate up, so I took a picture to show her. Is it one of the beginning of the chapter pictures? Oh, no. They're the only ones that are in there. So you're going to have nice glossy pictures in the middle? I love a book with glossy pictures in the middle.

50:30I've just got the lovely ones with the sides. I can't believe you haven't seen this. This is for now unbelievable. So I've got nearly a complete copy, but also you're putting in the picture of you. Wow. Well, I submitted it. so I don't know if it's been vetoed but there's a picture of me with my stoma change bag covering Audrey in my private parts just like great three in the morning what's going on yeah what's going on but like you said thank you for saying that because no matter how your day starts it can always end well it can don't write it off and sometimes it's really surprising because actually you do end up going oh fuck it and then everything does go a bit better because you're not so determined or so like focused or whatever you're just like fuck it and you go with the flow a bit more absolutely I've learned to become less attached to the outcome and also decide how I think things are going to be.

51:14I allow fate to show me now. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's not. I think as humans, we try and sort of like decide from our experience how a day is going to go. But like you say, when you let the universe take over, it ends how it's supposed to. And you're like, ah, that was better than I thought. And it's scary doing that. It is very scary. Because you've got to just let go and be vulnerable. But it's really interesting. And you've obviously been forced down that lane, whether you like it or not, that you've just got to go with the flow. but now to see you can sort of continue thinking in that way and carry it into regular days I think that's an amazing mindset shift one I certainly haven't managed to make fully and you know talking to you today has inspired me so massively and I don't want to use that inspired is such a weird word because people fling it around randomly but I truly mean it like reading this book and talking to you today I think it will have the exact impact on the listeners today that we can all think about of things in a slightly different way having spoken to you in terms of how you surrender how you go about your business what your mind's doing how much control we actually have over our mind and one of the most important things which I think we started with so it's a nice place to end is being nice to yourself yeah it's really hard but again that lesson for you has been hard one but you've learned it and you're doing it and it's again it's a daily discipline something you have to keep coming back to but it's so important absolutely and that is something that your podcast does in abundance and you've helped me with that so thank you very much oh mate yeah Adele I love you you're amazing I love this book I've loved every second of this conversation me too keep smashing personal bests keep doing your thing you're bloody brilliant thank you Fern oh Adele I don't know where to start that was one of my most favorite happy place podcast episodes I just loved Adele's honesty and her storytelling and the fact that she is willing to really bear her soul and her true emotions to all of us whilst telling this important story.

53:19As I said in the chat it's not easy to recount difficult moments like that so I am full of gratitude. I learned so much from that chat it's definitely reset my mindset somewhat and how much more I could push myself and sometimes I do get a little bit stuck in my ways so it's had a profound impact on me without a doubt. Personal best Adele's memoir is out on the 11th of April. As always I want Happy Place to be a space for you to share your stories too. Did you resonate with what Adele's been through? Come and carry on chatting over on Instagram at Happy Place Official. I'll be back here next week.

53:59But in the meantime, the biggest thank you again to Adele, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, because you are ace.

54:37Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

55:08Nicotine is an addictive chemical.