Alex Jones: Making mistakes, being present, and chaotic family holidays

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and this is the show that lets you enjoy the bloody moment and reflect on what you've got right now. Today, live from the Happy Place Festival in Chiswick, I am chatting to the delightful Alex Jones. Why is there all this pressure to find the next thing, the next move? You know, sometimes you have to really look at what you've got and go, this is great. And if this is it, I love it. And, you know, people ask a lot, but what do you want to do? Like, what do you mean? I'm really happy. And they're like, but, you know, don't you want to do a big entertainment show?

0:40And I'm like, well, all new projects are exciting and a new challenge. But actually, it would be really remiss of anybody, I think, to overlook the bread and butter. Actually, for me, longevity is key. Alex has presented The One Show on the BBC for 14 years. And she's no intention of going anywhere. She's properly content with where she's at. And I love that. I love that she's found the joy of sitting still and just enjoying the present instead of constantly moving towards the next thing. Now, British Airways Holidays are the brilliant sponsors of our talk stage at both our Chiswick and upcoming Tatton Park festivals.

1:21So I want to say a massive thank you to them for bringing this fabulous chat with Alex to life. By the way, if you're coming along to the Tatton Festival, just go to happyplacefestival.com if you haven't got your tickets yet. Make sure that you drop in to the British Airways Holidays teepee. not only for the chance to win a holiday by the way you can win a holiday but you can also try out their amazing immersive holiday experience i had a go in chiswick and it was so lovely you can sit there smell the smells of a holiday hear the sounds of a holiday sit on a deck chair you've got this lovely scent of suntan lotion the best smell ever it's a really lovely experience so do pop in alex and i chatted about the vital role travel plays in her lifestyle actually and we also talked about how rubbish we are at properly resting.

2:11It's not my forte. It's like we see it as a sort of indulgent luxury, which is not a good thing. We definitely need to get better at that and also take holidays a bit more seriously. There's just so much you're going to love in this chat. I really hope you love it, including a nice little bit of gossip about Dolly Parton, Jared Leto, I like that bit, Art Garfunkel and Richard Judy. What a dinner party that would be, here's the show.

2:59I'm imagining, I know you're extremely busy, but I'm hoping that this is a source of light relief for you today because you're in the middle of a house move oh how's that going it's not no it's a nightmare what i've done i've left it too late right people said start packing early and i thought two weeks was sufficient no that's like a holiday it turns that's like packing for a holiday it's not it's not enough time so it's happening on um oh my goodness on Friday. Right. Actually, I better go. Yeah. Are you an organised person naturally? I like to think so. But no, I mean, is anybody in our job?

3:42Because it's so frenetic and frantic and the children. And I started off really well, cleaning everything, boxing them in order. Now it's like this, open the box. Shovel in. Where's the sellotape gun? Yeah. The kids have broken it. All right, cut some off with your teeth. There you go. Done. It's all going to be worth it when you get in there. I think so. Even though I was saying backstage, I live here in Chiswick. Love it. Really love it. And this is where I do my run every day. And by the way, how amazing is this woman? Oh, my God. I came in and I thought, a mother has organised this. With a lot of help.

4:23With a hell of a lot of help. I know, but still, it's a lot. And it's incredible. um but yeah we are moving out of this area which we've absolutely loved and we met here charlie and i had our first date in our local pub saddos we moved so cute um but we've had the children here and i think that's what i'm struggling with is you know it's where we brought them home from hospital and we've got so many memories and i just think they're never going to be as young as they were in that house it's so hard isn't it when you see you know those markers when you do like your kids are leaving a school or you're moving area and it feels so deeply nostalgic before you've left definitely it feels really huge this year and even though we've really weighed it up and as much as i'd love to stay here it's not about me it's about them they need more space they need green fields and you know trees to climb because at the minute they play strictly comes fighting i was gonna say dancing but strictly fighting yeah in the kitchen and it's just, oh, it's really less.

5:26It's chaos. Put it all against the fridge. Yeah. I'm like, go out to the garden. Our garden's too small, mama. So we're doing it for them. But yeah, it feels big. But a new start is also really exciting. It is. And we feel fortunate that we can, you know, that we've got the option to move. So, yeah. A new chapter is always scary and exciting. It's a good thing. I think so. It's a really good thing. I mean, you've got a hell of a lot going on. You're a mum. you're doing the one show amongst other projects and this move on the go you've been doing the one show for what 14 years now is it 14 15 14 14 uh next month so much has happened in that time it must be strange to look back on that era of your life you met your husband during that time you've had your children during that time it's completely been a really incredible part of your life i can't even believe i'm still there i think i just keep quiet i just literally go in do the job and hope nobody notices that I'm still but you're so good oh I just I love it and you know people people ask a lot but what do you want to do like what do you mean I'm like I'm really happy and they're like but you know don't you want to do a big entertainment show and I'm like well you know all new projects are exciting and a new challenge but actually it would be really remiss of anybody I think to overlook the bread and butter and if you don't put your heart and so like you do into this nothing works all the extra bits are really fun and exciting and it was lovely to do like the fertility doc I did you know side by side it's lovely to have that running alongside it but actually for me longevity is key and I want to be there I want to be you know with us being the main breadwinner I want to be able to provide security for the children I love the job, getting to do brilliant people.

7:20Yeah. And I just really enjoy it. I still feel really happy to go in every day. And I think, you know, that's not to be overlooked. No, I mean, how refreshing, because I think modern society does push us to keep looking to what's next, what's next. And there's a hell of a lot of pressure for us to bypass feeling content. and actually if you're loving what you're doing why would you change it but that it's so strange that we're so used to to having that question or asking other people that question but what's next we don't have to have a what's next I don't think I think there's so much pressure anyway yeah if you find something you really enjoy why is there as you say all this pressure to find the next thing the next move I mean I don't mean in terms of how smooth but you know the next thing career-wise sometimes you have to really look at what you've got and go this is great and if this is it for as long as they'll have me I mean by the way they'll have to push me out with my zoomer frame yeah I won't be going by choice and if you read that you'll know it's a lie because I would never go no no she didn't no I just yeah they'll have to literally push me out I absolutely still love it and get a lot of pleasure from it and you know it's having a chat with people nothing nicer it's so wonderful I mean how do you feel being interviewed I always find it really unnerving I'm a bit out of control oh no I like it do you pressures off takes the pressure off yeah just chill and I don't know it's interesting because obviously you really understand the dynamic of both roles but I quite like it yeah you can take the pressure off and I've listened to this podcast Fern oh my god running around this park if it's if it's if it's running around listening to Fern and I've learned so much on your podcast so if anything there is pressure with this one because I think god I've come away from every podcast and thought oh that's interesting or I'll try and do a bit more of that and I don't know I've got anything to share with you I'll be of course you have you've got loads to share and I'm really intrigued to know more about the inner workings of Alex Jones because I mean for a start let's just isolate it to looking at the job that you do it is I mean I hosted the one show about four times and it was so terrifying I found it I mean I'm not good these days with live tv I used to find it a walk in the park but these days there's something really it it makes my nervous system fizz in a not nice way whereas this doesn't I feel very comfortable and relaxed here.

10:02And I've lost, I guess, the tolerance to do that kind of thing anymore, where you're a bit on edge and anything could happen. And you're thrown some real curveballs on that show. And you have to interview people like you know them and you really don't in a very short space of time. Do you work well under pressure? I think so. I need a deadline. Right. With a house move. Yeah. I need Friday as a deadline. Yeah. But I think I do. I love live television because, of course, it keeps you vital, doesn't it? It keeps you alive because, of course, the danger with doing a job for that long is that you become complacent.

10:38Yeah. But the live element keeps it fresh. And every, as you know, every night is different. The combo sometimes makes me really laugh. Yeah. I mean, like. The jarring transitions between items. Exactly. I love that. You know, and there's a lot to fit in. And you're like, here's Dolly Parton, four minutes go. And it's hard because you're thinking, well, people at home, this is a guest that they really want to hear from. And you think, oh, my God, that is like three, maybe four questions. With Jared Leto, it turned out it was about 15. I have a lot to say. Oh, dear. I know. Hopefully he's not here.

11:16No, he's probably in the lotus position somewhere by the water. But with, you know, all of most of our lovely guests, they've got a lot to say. and then doing that in four minutes. Because, of course, like Graham Norton thinks it's edited, but there's none of that. And, oh, my goodness, I make mistakes. I don't think you do. This is what I'm so intrigued about, because when I watch you, I see someone who is flawless, someone who has honed their skill and is flawless. And I do watch, especially people now on live TV, in awe, knowing what that feels like, that you could say anything. Like, my mad head would throw up something quite outrageous in moments that I'd have to squash to then say something sensible.

11:55But you seem to do it so flawlessly. Do you feel a pressure to be perfect? No. No. No. I think at about five to seven, I insert the BBC One filter. Right. So before then, in rehearsal, it's bad. Yeah. It's really bad. Like, things massive, cancelled for, kind of. Right. I wish I could watch that show. Yeah, at five to seven, the filter goes in. And I think because I've been there for so long, I feel really relaxed. It's like home from home. And it's not what you just see on telly, of course. It's like all the people behind the scenes, all our cameramen. They've also been there for years. It feels really relaxing.

12:38There's a nice atmosphere there. But, you know, sometimes I'll be away with the fairies. Or classic, my husband, who still forgets what I'm doing at seven o 'clock on a weeknight. how how hi you know i'm just in sainsbury's um what do you want i'm literally about to interview the prime minister how can i help you i've been doing this for ages yeah and they'd be like whose phone's on oh i don't know some you can hear behind me but i think it's just yeah we all get quite relaxed and then if something like that's happened and i'm not fully concentrating i'll welcome a guest on i mean once then i don't know i probably told the story before but it was nick robinson who's i love this story he's amazing and i went oh please welcome rick robinson and oh honestly me and it's it's perfect it couldn't be any worse could it no it's so good but like nick grimshaw and i who nick was presenting with me that night and we just Could not get a grip.

13:45For love, no money, could not get a grip. That's my favourite live TV, is just corpsing, like, forever. Exactly. Nonstop laughter. I remember doing the chart show once on Radio 1, and me and Reggie got the giggles, and we didn't announce a single number. We just laughed for, like, 20 seconds, and then that was it, and then a song started playing. It's so joyful. Yeah, and I always think that's what people want. Yeah, they do. I mean, that's what I tell myself. I'm like, that's what they want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what they want. I love it. I mean talking of Dolly Parton weren't you invited into her dressing room to hang out yeah and I'd only been doing the show for about three months so I was like whoa that's Dolly Parton and she went oh um I said I'm believe it or not gonna interview you in a minute she said come in come in come in I'm just putting my makeup on she does all her own makeup she does all her own hair it's not her hair but she does the hair I'm glad you said it yeah oh she sets that's the hair and she let me watch her put all her own makeup on and it was like it was a process of course it was you could watch her becoming dolly over this period of time but it was incredible and she was so open and what you see when you see people interviewing her is exactly what she is she's just so lovely and I think again a person who's grateful for the job she has she enjoys it she's happy who wouldn't be if he were dolly you know what i mean she just feels yeah i'm really lucky i'm really happy to chat nothing's a problem she's ace i love that it's often those really big mega stars who are really lovely because they've sort of been there seen it done it all and they're always very gracious and have a lot of time and yeah that's what you hope but it seems to be true yeah i mean the only people really i don't know it's probably my upbringing but i don't get that starstruck people like dolly of course different i mean dolly's in a different she's otherworldly otherworldly good word yeah elton john yeah because we used to sing to elton john in the car you know mum and dad put the cassette and it was always elton john heaven whether we liked it or not yeah but we were like in the you know back of the car singing i don't know all sorts your song badly all of it but when he actually came on i was faced with him i was like flipping heck he's flipping Elton John.

16:04Yeah. So there are a few. Absolutely. But you do realise, I guess, seeing people up close and personal, seeing Dolly Parton put her make-up on, everyone's human, muddling through the day. I mean, I never forget Art Garfunkel. I wasn't sure if I knew what he looked like, really. You know, you've heard a lot about... Just sort of like curly hair, big hair? Well, this is it. Oh, have I got the wrong one? He's got this sort of curly, tight curls, sort of, you know, a bit sort of short. Anyway, we went into the makeup room and he whipped it off. What? All his hair. And I was like, whoa. I wasn't, I didn't expect that.

16:44I mean, that's an exclusive. Yeah. Surely. It's a wig. Art's got no hair. We didn't know. You see a lot of people behind the scenes, you know. And that's really interesting. I think the most starstruck I've ever been is Richard and Judy. Oh, Richard and Judy. I loved Richard and Judy. Like, I still love Richard and Judy. The best. And when they came on, I was like, this is it. One of my favourite TV moments ever, and I mean ever, is Rich and Judy at the NTAs. Oh, amazing. It was so... If any of you didn't see that, that's what you're YouTubing tonight. When Judy goes, they go on stage, and she doesn't realise her halter neck is not a halter neck anymore.

17:26Yeah. It's around her waist, whole bra on display, millions... This is when the NTAs were huge, millions of people watching. I was with Stephen Mulhern, weirdly. We were presenting this kids' TV show, and we were in a hotel room, and we were screeching with sort of ecstatic joy and horror. It's one of the greatest bits of telly ever. I think, though, you end up loving Judy so much more because of it. Who hasn't had a halter neck around their waist at some point? Do you know what I mean? Quite. Unsuspected. We've all been there. We have. It's an extraordinary job that you've got. And as I've said a million times, you do it so impeccably whilst dealing with three children and a family life and moving house.

18:05Do you reach overwhelm? All the time, especially now that that lovely thing called perimenopause is breathing down my neck. Yeah, I feel overwhelmed a lot. And I think the thing that overwhelms me most is having enough time with the children. because you know when we were growing up we had nothing but what we did have is mum and dad's time and I think that is the thing that I know I can't give them enough of I mean every day you know they'll ask um are you working tonight mama and the answer is I mean I take some time off I take a day off a week now because I just need to be there but I think it's hard I don't what the answer is is there an answer no I don't know if there is so what I do I overdo it on the love front right yeah I like really do it go heavy with love yeah because I think you know at a really young age that is the thing you can grasp so they are up to here the boys and like hugs yeah get off they love it and I think you know time is key I mean no kids wants material anything it's not you know nobody wakes up and go well some might you know i want a ps5 but they actually they probably do some but mostly it's are you picking me up tonight will you be there after school tonight that's what they want so my life is very basic i go to work and when i'm not in work i'm with the children i'm the most boring person but i'm the same i'm the same and that's i just keep it simple so I'm like if I'm not with them do you want to go for it no I don't want to go for a drink I mean I do but I in 10 years in 10 years yeah because I think now is the time we are not going to get it back my focus is them and I go to work to provide for them and everything else is them yeah that you know I think that's the only way I can survive I agree I think you have to pick two things that you want to not even do well at but two things you want to have a go at because I think you still even with two things in your life feel strung out stretched like there's not enough time and room I think I was talking about this earlier perhaps in one of the smaller talks we did that it's almost quite a toxic thing to say oh women can have it all today and that used to be perhaps a sort of feminist statement I don't think it is anymore I think it's quite negative in terms of us then feeling like we have to strive for everything and then we fall short in all areas rather than quite sensibly as you've said pick a couple of things that you really want to put your heart and soul into and they don't have to be perfect but that's your choice I think that's the only way to deal with it because I think we're all overwhelmed whether we've got kids or not have a job don't whatever your situation we're all bombarded with information we're all trying to do way too many things and we're really stretched when I feel overwhelmed I tend to get really flappy like I'm very flappy and I think my husband is here somewhere but I'm probably a bit horrible to him that's that's a mild way of putting it um and I'm just not a relaxed fun person to be around how does your overwhelm express itself I think you've nailed it there yeah I'm not the person I want to be I want to be fun mum I want to be nice wife.

21:42I mean, to be fair, he doesn't help himself sometimes. Because I know, you know, I'll know the days that are not going to be, you know, great. Yeah. Week before period. Yeah, all of that stuff. We know, yeah. And I'll say sometimes, today, Charlie, I would try your best. Yeah. Or stay away. Do you know what I mean? Stay away. And on one particular day, I'll give you an example. He won't mind. Probably will. But I said, have you ordered anything for us to be able to sit outside on in the new house? Yeah. And he went, no, because you'll want to choose and it won't be right. Fair enough. And I went, but not literally bean bags, you know.

22:32Sort of. What have you ordered? Great. What have you ordered? A chicken coop. Oh, is that happening? Are you having chicken coops? Okay. You could sit on the chicken coop. So we've got nothing to sit on, on the floor, but the chickens will be in a very lovely chicken coop. Well, good for them. So good for them. Have you got chickens? Not yet. No. No. No, we don't. The fantasy chickens will have a great life. But, you know, so some days are worse, but I can feel it. I mean, sometimes I'll go, I'll always try and get outside. That's the thing that saves me. nature saves me 100 but I can feel it building sometimes and I feel like I'm out of control yeah you know it's like this rage and it's not me at all and I don't I don't know what the answer is because every person I speak to seems to feel the same they like getting across we just have no time to rest and I think we all now see rest as this sort of wonderful luxury whereas it should be a must and it's certainly why we put this festival on so that every knackered person around can come and sit and have a second to just without being bombarded with info and phones pinging and all of that stuff I think we're all guilty of not choosing to switch off we see it as this great luxury but actually we all need to I mean if you had your ideal moment of rest what would that look like I don't know because I am terrible at resting yeah I've always been terrible but I know that I need to do it but I still can't find the room for it which is horrible because sometimes when you just have a 20 minute nap sometimes I've fallen asleep in the car on the way to somewhere and I'll wake up and I'll think oh my god I feel like a different person so I know I need it but I'm I've always been really bad at scheduling it in why do you think that is are you I'm um I'm always a bit on the run I'm always like what and it's probably the opposite of what we talked about at the start of this chat but I do think what's next and not because I'm bored or complacent but because I need to feel this level of excitement with yeah some sort of creative newness I'm a bit addicted to it and I am scared of rest I think some of it is just kind of like your classic working class upbringing where that's just how it is and the thought of my mum and dad imagining me sort of watching telly in the day still makes me feel a bit sick um yeah well like just stopping but also I do I I do push myself to silly degrees sometimes and I expect too much of myself which I'm trying now in my 40s to pull back on and learn that it's okay just to stop for a bit because I'm going to burn out like we all will burn out I think many of us probably here today feel on the edges of being a bit burnt out why do you think you're not good at it because I'm scared to stop why is that because I think when I was growing up and I remember I would look out of my parents bedroom and you could see the black mountains and I just hated them because I know the mountains specifically yeah how awful is that because and now I go back and I think they're beautiful and they're evocative and but at the time it just represented this wall and I thought I don't want to be here I don't want to be in this dark valley I just want to get out of here but because in South Wales it's a lovely place to grow up but you're conditioned not to dream outside the boundary of South Wales you know so I would never have told anybody how much I wanted I wanted to go to New York I wanted to go to London I wanted to be an actress I mean that was a bad idea but I wanted to do all these things that I couldn't say out loud because it was just blue sky thinking.

26:45I mean, mum and dad would have gone, all right then. And so what are you actually going to do? You know, and they don't mean to be like that because they're amazing, supportive parents, but it's just the way we're all conditioned. And so because I've been super lucky and I've been allowed to do this extraordinary job, I'm too scared to stop now because of my background, I think. Do you fear it will all go away? Yeah. I do. I think they're going to any minute send me back down the M4, over the bridge, right, lock it, guys. Keep her in Wales. Bye. Yeah. Yeah, I feel the same. I always think I could, and I do think it is the nature of, certainly the TV industry, that you can very easily disappear.

27:31And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. It's certainly not about being known. But I think if you love your job, and there is even a small percentage of a chance that it might not be the case in the future. That's really scary when you love it. It's hugely scary. Yeah, and especially when, because people, I mean, when I first had the job, they thought, oh, look, it's like a competition winner. She's just appeared out of the blue. And of course, no. No, you've been working for Yonks. You've been, you know, knocking on doors, sending letters, doing ridiculous jobs along the way. I remember standing in a tube station, I think it was Tottenham Court Station.

28:13And I'd got there for an audition and I couldn't get home because I didn't have any money. You know, when you go in and it goes, you have insufficient funds. That used to be my life all the time. And I'd have to ring mum and dad. They were like, well, what are you doing in London? You haven't got any money. What are you doing? Alan, what's she doing now in London? Classic. And I'd be like, well, I saw this thing in the stage. Remember that? Yeah, I used to love the stage. And off I'd go, you know. And so even though I was like a really shy kid, I had this quite strong ambition inside. And I thought, I'm not looking at these black mountains anymore.

28:54I'm off come hell or high water. And it took a long, long time. But now that I have it, I don't want to lose it. No, but it means you're really grateful as well, which is a lovely thing. And sometimes, again, rare in the TV industry. I mean, I think you have to have maybe not only that thought process of I'm getting out of here and nothing will stop me, but you've got to have some self-belief in there. Well, a little bit. I suppose I had to. We didn't have these words then. No. But I had to sort of do an inner rebrand. Right. You know? Mm-hmm. Looking back, I was, you know, as a child, thin. Thin.

29:34That's a terrible word, isn't it? Thin. Thin, shy. compliant you know I would just I was an obedient child and I don't know where this came from but I was like there's more to life than this and it was that and I didn't know whether I could do it I didn't think I probably could but I just thought I'm going to give this a go life's too short and because of the extraordinary job I really and always have done I love the mundane and like people my husband is like what do you mean you love mundane I don't know I just like pick up and drop off yeah I just like stuff so I'm quite easily pleased so even though I wanted so it's a bit of a weird one because even though I wanted to sort of reach extraordinary heights which I'm not saying I have but for me I'm really happy you really have but I also really enjoy my my favorite memory is mum eyeing in coronation street on and us having a cup of tina biscuit heaven like that i was so happy with that as well so it's a bit of a weird but it's a lovely balance because i think if you go too far into that world of tv it can be really toxic and it's very fake and actually you can have the exciting bit but then just go home and have a really normal evening or a lovely weekend of pottering my favorite thing pottering yeah love obsessed um obviously along the way you we all have been rejected in some way if we're trying to climb a ladder at work how did you deal with that and what stopped you from giving up I said I mean I've got I've got a chunk of letters you know from producers execs agencies and I've kept them all because I'm going to show them to the children when they're older because also I'm really concerned the fact that their life is quite a lot easier than mine was and I don't want them to be complacent I don't want them not to have a drive in them but I had going back to the point loads of rejection letters and I just think I don't know as a youngster you have an ability to shrug it off I think whether I could do that now I don't know because a couple of horrible comments on Instagram and I'm a mess I'm like, where's the red wine?

31:47It's awful. But it is. It's awful. It's horrible. And of course, you know, it's literally like a tiny percent. But I think when you're younger, you just think, okay, on to the next thing, on to the next thing. And that's kind of the tenacity you need to do something that you love. I think it doesn't come easy. You know, you've got to work hard. And I keep banging on at it. And bless them, they're only two, five and seven. I'm like talking to you about rejection I love it and I'm like Ted we got to do the spelling if you don't do the spelling you won't get a good mark you won't be confident and then it'll just unravel and Charlie's like whoa well it's a bit soon but I feel strongly that you know their life should be because they have a lovely life of course and they they loved but I don't want them to feel that they can be complacent because I think that is the start of unraveling yeah I mean your kids a little bit do you talk in your household about mental health emotions how do you approach that like well as we just mentioned my mental health is off the charts sometimes I think it's due to you know just the month but because I'm quite a positive person I'm pretty happy most of the time but of course I think we all get affected by it everybody has periods where you just don't feel great I mean going back to my late 20s or you know looking back now that was a mess um and we've all had these periods you know and I've talked before my husband has suffered in the past but what we really try and do is talk a lot you know and I'm looking at the children thinking oh he seems a bit off today or you know it's harder than he she's a toddler but I think we We all have loads of really brilliant information now and stuff that our parents didn't have.

33:44And sometimes I think, God, mum was a bit strict, but they didn't have what we have. Of course, we've got pressure that comes with it to be this phenomenal parent, but they didn't have the information. We have got so much more information to our fingertips. And I think that should make life easier. but what makes it harder is then the pressure layer that we put on ourselves and maybe that's what needs to come away yeah I think we all feel under an immense amount of pressure but I think communicating is so key and it can feel really uncomfortable and and sometimes like the last thing you want to do when you're really tired as well I mean it's your husband's story we don't need to get into your husband but as you just touched on he had a bad patch of mental health And it's hard as a partner or if it's your friend going through it or a parent that you can't fix them.

34:38That's quite a frustrating feeling that there's actually very little you can do. How did you navigate that as a partner? You're right. I mean, I was I kind of went quite 1980s and was like, right, come on. Come on. Yeah. And that was the way I'd been brought up. like snap out of it you know I gave him a few days and then I was like you need to come on now and then I realized gosh this is what I've been reading about listening about on your podcast and other podcasts and I thought oh my god this is what this is what it looks like and it was grim I didn't know what to do because of course every experience is very individual and it's sometimes is not something you can or want to talk to somebody else about because it is very personal and I feel even now I feel so protective of him because you know it was his story to tell it is his story to tell but in general I think people don't reach out when they're in despair you know there's all these kind of things online and stuff well you know you can talk to this person about you try this try some meditation well all that goes out the window because you're in a right hole you can't you know so I think as much as we dress it up it's it's a lot darker and lonely than we think and sometimes you do whether you're the person going through it the partner the friend all you need to do is sit with them and just be there because there isn't much you can do and yes you can float ideas or yes you can ask questions but sometimes you have to sit and wait it out and it's not quick and I think nobody necessarily wants to hear that because we're all about the quick fixes well what one thing can I do and everything's going to be okay yeah no what thing can I do for a week and then everything's magically better and we all know deep down that's not how life works but it is a real test in the moment it is a test and I think you know as I said earlier nature saves me sometimes just sitting on my own really really helps outside and i think things like we started doing like long car we do a lot of long car journeys we do because we keep going to wales and god knows but when the children are sleeping in the back of the car and we are not actually looking at each other sometimes that's when we have our best chats yeah and we very we've always been people who are really open with each other and I think if you're not that is a problem it is you can't open up to the person who's closest to you you are yeah you can swear but you've got your BBC filter on so she's not going to yeah it's easy but it is I think car journeys or walking are great for that because you're just not looking and you're just straight ahead but the chat flows it's really gorgeous and I'm really grateful that you've shared that with us because it's it's interesting in the perspective of a partner as well as the person who has been through or is in it.

37:54It's really important. I do want to ask you some questions about travel as we are sponsored by British Airways. Oh, yeah. And I would love to know what travel means to you, first of all. It's my absolute favourite thing. Same. But we don't, for me, though, is finding places where we can really be with the children. Yeah. So I often, for example, because we live here, we gravitate towards the coast. This year, randomly, we go into Corsica. Nice! Is it? I don't know. I don't know. I've never been. Anyone been to Corsica? Anybody been to Corsica? Yeah, one person. Cool. Yeah. We go into Corsica because, yeah, I mean, it just seems somewhere where we've always looked at.

38:37It's got wonderful beaches. Heaven. It's got, like, fresh water lakes in the mountains you can swim in. but Charlie thinks he's Bear Grylls so it always has to be somewhere with an outdoor element right and also if we were in like a really posh resort I would just be on edge thinking my children are going to ruin your holiday yes so this is the other thing do we need to invent a new word or term for holidays when you take children because it's not a holiday we need a new descriptive word holidays change um literally overnight when you've got kids how do you find that oh we were like those idiots who thought yeah life's not going to change we can take them to thailand and no don't be ridiculous no has it got a kids club book it no we are now in france back to back you know with a car stacked high yeah roof box which has been our best friend that's where we are yeah great and i'm all right with that yeah yeah because we actually tried a resort in greece i thought come on i don't want to stack a dishwasher let's be fancy yeah no hideous shit show there was a buffet my children were like oh my goodness mama can you have anything you can have anything here terrible answer yeah breakfast chocolate fountain yeah Kit, so these lovely people came over and they said, oh, hi, Alex, how's the holiday going?

40:10Yeah, really nice, thanks. Oh, yeah, we've seen the children. I bet you have. And then they went, oh, oh, you might want to, Kit had his face in. Oh, what a legend. And, you know, it's awful, because really all I wanted to do was go, Kit, oh, yeah, Kit, oh, no, no. But I was like, Kit, Kit, darling, stop doing that. Really, I was like, I don't know. Were you doing your BBC parenting? Yeah. I love it. And these people, but they still kept talking and I was like, oh my god, there's chocolate all over him, all over the floor. And now Ted is like, oh, where's the marshmallows? I'm like, no, I'm going to have to go.

40:46It was awful. Stress. Seven buffets of a morning nearly killed me. you've learned your lesson yeah quite frankly how do you and we talked about rest earlier but how do you take your holidays seriously because it's a really important thing when you have that time scheduled and carved out that you do take it seriously yeah well I mean we do tons of research because I think holidays are so precious that you don't want to get it wrong so we take holidays seriously but also the fact of it's there for you to relax it's not that it's a bit right yeah it's not really relaxing but we do we do pick places where beaches are near where there's plenty of stuff for the children to do i mean again we should just go to a resort that is used to but charlie won't what about are you good with like putting your tech away oh 100 yeah yeah phone in the draw there's no time yeah I mean you know and people will be like can you show us where you are oh oh yeah in a minute you know but there's a bit of that isn't there there's a bit of because it's nice to share things as well and to share tips but yeah we've got hard rules around phones so in the mornings no phones really it'll only come out after the children have gone to bed yeah that's great that's taking it really seriously yeah we do properly switch off mentally which is Well, I think otherwise, you know, you are tempted to answer an email.

42:15You think, I'll just do one. But the minute they see you on a phone, I think any child feels, ah, they've lost interest. Yeah. You know, they're not in the moment with us. We were building a sandcastle here and it's awesome. But, Dad, are you? No. Yeah. So there's a hard rule of... In the draw. Yeah. Well, I wish you all the best in Corsica. I hope there's not a chocolate fountain in sight. You know. You never know. it's been an absolute bloody joy to meet you. I'm so grateful that you've come along to the Happy Place Festival I hope you get a chance to have a look around and thank you so much for your time considering you're so busy and about to move house But this is the break I needed This is the break you needed We're so grateful you chose to be with us Give it up for Alex Jones everyone

43:02Thank you I really love that Alex mentioned about car chats being so brilliant. I I absolutely agree. And that's also what Rachel Stevens has been talking about earlier in the day at the Chiswick Festival. The car was the place that she was able to start rebuilding her relationship with her estranged dad, a deeply moving part of the chat. You can obviously listen back to that whenever you like if you haven't caught up on it already. alright I'm back here next week but in the meantime I always love being able to chat with you on Instagram we're at happyplaceofficial for now a huge thank you to British Airways Holidays for sponsoring the Happy Place Festival talk stage to the brilliant Alex for being such a ray of sunshine to the wonderful producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios and the biggest thanks to you lot, you are the best

43:58Thank you.