Anastacia: Resilience, cancer, and broken Barbies

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the space that celebrates you just the way you are. Today, I'm chatting to Anastasia. When I was signed, they wanted me to wear extensions. You know, I was like, well, what's wrong with my hair? And then they wanted me to wear all this makeup. And I was like, oh, I guess I wasn't pretty. I never wore makeup before. I only would put lipstick on and put my glasses on. And what I had on my head was hair. And it was, you know, eight rows. I'm out of love days were eight rows of hair. and I almost felt like I could not leave or go out of a hotel or go anywhere unless I looked like her.

0:41It's terrible that now I'm insecure about my hair. I never was insecure about my hair before I got in the business. Okay, you know how obsessed I am with the 90s and early noughties music and Anastasia is arguably one of the biggest icons from that era. I've met Anastasia a few times now. She certainly came on Celebrity Juice and was just game for all of it. And I think we all just totally fell in love with her then. And she is genuinely one of the most warm, welcoming, funny and lovely guests that I've ever had on the podcast. She is now back with a brand new album called Our Songs. It's a really cool concept.

1:20It celebrates the music she fell in love with while she was in Germany. So it's 12 English language interpretations of German hits from 1980 to 2020. There are powerful pop songs in there and stadium sized rock anthems too. Anastasia and I met up in central London a couple of weeks ago. She'd just landed in the UK, having had an absolute mare getting hit. Anyone else, myself included, would have been completely lethargic, but she was so full of energy. We bounced around so many different topics in this chat, how the music industry works, the pressure to use filters on the Internet, her double mastectomy, menopause.

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3:58Oh, I can't wait for this. Here's the show.

4:23Anastasia, darling. I haven't seen you for ages. Oh my God, I haven't seen. You have not aged. It's very offensive. More of you. Well, you know, I mean, I've had a little help from special people, but also glasses, stronger tint. We got to do what we have to do. These glasses are divine today. How many pairs do you reckon you've got? Too many. Yeah. Too many. I mean, I can't count. I mean, it's just rude to count because at this point, the same with, you know, sleeping with people. You just don't want to count. It's irrelevant. Yeah, it's irrelevant. You know, why talk about the past? It's a number smaller than 100 and bigger than 10.

4:57Yeah, it's not enough for fans, but, you know, it's too much for. Hey, so I'm starting on a good note. So good morning. That's like my favorite star of a podcaster ever. So you recently posted a picture of you lying on a heated floor. Seriously jet lagged. Where are we at with the jet lag? We are much better with the jet lag, but I don't think I've ever been that jet lagged. I had a really hard time trying to get to London and there were cancellations. And, you know, where do I go sleep with cancellations? I was in an Airbnb, checked out. Then I ended up sleeping in a like a buckle lounger chair.

5:38I don't know what you call that. but like you know old man's chair oh yeah um and uh that wasn't great and then i didn't sleep on the actual plane that finally got me to london because i was so anxietied about the work i had to do got to london no bags oh that is my worst like i'm an overpacker so i had three there was a three chances for them to get one bag on the plane and all three they didn't know where they were and i was like okay well i'm really gonna look crazy this week so they're gonna be like god she's just really just sort of like dialed down her fashion yeah where's the leather jacket where's that did you have glasses in your bag um yes i do carry the glasses in the bag because you know like they're prescription and i'm not you need to see yeah it would be nice and then i also i carry uh the hair in the bag i keep it all real yeah i carry the hair in the bag i carry the glasses I carry the jewelry and I carry my in-ears for singing.

6:40But other than that, I had nothing. Like I had no shampoo. I had nothing. As it turned up. Yeah, it did. I was very lucky because I, you know, I then wonder who's trying on my clothes. Like what's happening out there? And I did have like this jacket from back and back in the day. I was bringing some stuff back. Yeah. I was pulling out of the closet because I'm in fashion now. 90s is happening. And so I'm sure you're 20 years old. Thank you. That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm like, this is great. I don't need a stylist for about two years. I'm so excited. Yeah, I've never been so fashionable. I'm so glad that you're here and your stuff's here.

7:20Yeah, it worked out. But hence the post was me taking off the socks and realizing that the floor in the bathroom was heated. And my back was like, oh, I could use a massage. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to lay here so that I can feel the warmth on my back. Two seconds later, I must have continued. Are you snoring? I was. Yeah. Yeah. I don't snore. And then apparently I do. So I really I didn't know whether I should post it because then I didn't know if I would my dating factor would go really far down. No, no, no. But it's kind of like a little. It's a little purse for those of you that want to know.

8:03It's kind of sexy, right? Yeah, I think so. But I'm so glad that you've had a little bit of rest. Yes, I have. That's stuff going on. I've got a little bit of stuff going on. I'm happy. New music is always good to feel inspired by. Yeah. You know, it's beautiful. It's great. And it's the gift that keeps on giving. I'm grateful to still be working. I mean, I didn't think this would be where I am in life. and that I could have a section of my life that wants to keep getting played and people want to hear that. Yeah. You know, they could care less about new music, to be honest with you, my fans. But when it comes around and when it happens, it's always great because it makes a nice concert, a couple extra new songs.

8:47But if I don't sing, I'm out of love or left outside alone. Oh, big trouble. Oh, heck no, you know. Yeah, but nobody wants to go to a gig and not hear the big favorite hits. I agree. It eats it when you go to a gig and someone just plays new stuff and you're like, I don't know the words to this. Yeah, so I don't drizzle in too much of the albums that are new because they really do want the nostalgia. Yeah, it's great to do a mix though. I mean, next year will be 25 years since you released your first album. It's a crazy thought. Crazy. It's a crazy thought. What does that feel like to look back on that two and a half decades having released so much music and been through, God, so much?

9:25Well, I'm I really I'm proud of it. I'm also shocked at the same time. I don't feel like I've had 25 years of a career yet. So and so I I don't know what to do about how do you how do you celebrate it? You just go, I hope I still work. You know, like that's that's what I go. I'm I'm grateful for it. And I want I don't know how many more years I get to sing because it's a gift. It's not something I can promise to anyone that's going to happen every day or years to come. So I'm grateful I can still do it. I'm grateful I can still sing the songs that I love to sing. I don't make them easy. No. No.

10:08I'm not a Sade writer. You know, I don't write, you know, simple, simple notes. I write from the lowest to the highest, you know. It's a beautiful thing. And I think having that gratitude is one of the many reasons why you're still doing what you do, because some people really do take it for granted and quite sort of complacent about their place in the music industry. And I guess the thing when you look at a span of work like that, 25 years, and you see how almost unrecognizable the music industry is from when you were recording at the start. I did not. I didn't go with them and the music. I'm not hip hop.

10:47I've never had a rapper on my stuff like I've just continued to stay in my lane. And I'm grateful that people still want to hear just music without all the rest of it. That is now it's, you know, Latin and all of this is I love it. But it's not really I don't feel I need to go there to change what is already working for me. You know, my Sprock soul pop rock vibe is is going working for me. Yeah. And also, I guess how you go about communicating an album and what you're doing, that's changed. Again, I know. And we've got TikTok and a whole other host of things that did not exist back in the day.

11:27How do you feel about those changes in the industry? I think that I feel sad for the newer generation because there is something that there is just they're never going to know what music ultimately was like, what it was like to wait for the the album to come out, the CD, the, you know, literal physical copy and be outside the store. and then they sold out and you're like when are you getting the next shipment like they don't know what that means and there's a buzz to what that is and a beautiful quality that I'm grateful I came out when that still happened and I was able to experience it not only as a person that was a fan of music but then the person that had fans it was quite a beautiful thing to watch in real time.

12:22But I do believe, you know, we can't control what's going on. And I guess that's, you know, I still feel weird when I'm like, go stream it and beam it. You know, it's just weird to like advertise myself. It's that strange. Yeah. You know, like I'm used to the record company and the publishing, you know, just all they they do what they do. And I just, hey, hey, hate you know do you feel pressure with all of that with how much more focus there is on what you can do how you can drive your social media etc because like you said it's taken care of i it's a lot of work it's there's editing stuff that i am not talented at all of so it helps to have somebody that can help you edit but i do like to run my page i do like to be fully involved in what I'm doing and I don't want just a boring page because that's not who I am anyway.

13:19No, it's very you. I liked the video the other day where you were trying to get to sleep but you'd watched a crime drama. I did. I was like, great, I'm in my Christmas PJs. I was like, oh my God, you know, just sort of just natural me. But yes, I'm trying to show more of the natural me like me on the floor, me in the bed in Christmas jommies. And then me like this. Yeah, being a gorgeous glam as well. Being so out of the bed. You can be it all. Well, I pay for it. I love that. I love that. Many of us will not remember a time before Anastasia being about, you know, you've always been there doing your thing.

13:55But let's go right, right back for people that don't perhaps know your backstory and how you got to where you are today and everything that's informed who Anastasia is. So you were born in Chicago. Yes. you have a brother and a sister that you're brought up yes older sister younger brother your dad left quite soon yeah it was you know after the after my brother it was probably kaput before my brother but you know um it was not a marriage to last so uh they were divorced and and it was just us three and my mom most of the time and we'd go visit dad but it was uh you know normal normal person broken family yeah and that you say has made you and your sister particularly close i i think it really did at the beginning i have to say that she did kind of feel like she had a daughter because you know when she's the oldest she has to look after us too my mom's sort of like you know the mother always looks at the oldest to to help the youngers so when we got older we became like super sister wives you know like we're like yeah um and she's great we work together and it's wonderful so so she's on your team yeah yeah she's my assistant oh heaven but she's everything she does all of it when i say you know i sent an email i said well but did i send that email no she sent the email well we called no she called i love that i think it's probably also again one of the reasons why you've stayed i'm going to use some very base language here normal ah do you know what i mean you are you haven't to me as an outsider and a fan gone into that world of absolute bullshit that you can get dragged into in the music industry either no i refuse no and i really do relate a lot to seeing um seeing wonderful people stay humble and real in who they are.

15:54And even though we've discovered ourselves throughout the years, it's not like we were who we were 25 years ago today, but there is a grounding that we still are and a learning curve that we learned. And that's part of the way life goes. And to me, my life is now hashtag never dull because it's like you know does plan a work probably not you know like c and d who knows if it's on z i'm just go with the flow you know and laughing at the things that don't work more than anything i'm like of course my flight has gone slow you know like instead of like why and yelling at the desk i'm like really people yeah but that's that's how you survive it isn't it.

16:41That's how you survive life, though. You can't dwell in it. You can feel it. I think everyone has human, they're human and they feel when something is sad, they feel when they're not, when something's not good. But it all is about how you get through it. You have to get through it. And if you don't, you're paralyzed. You continue to backslide. You continue to repeat the same things. You really have to look into what it is you keep doing wrong or what it is you keep not getting if you repeat the same things in life. And I had to learn that in my life when it came to relationships as well, where you stop saying, you know, I'm the victim.

17:24And I'd be like, well, I'm pointing a finger at you, but oh my God, I have three pointing back at me. And I'm like, I think I need to assess why I keep doing that. I know. To myself. You know, humbling stuff, humbling stuff. But it also gives you resilience. It gives you patience. Yes. I mean, you started in terms of music industry types late. You were in your 30s. That's why it really is trippy to think 25 years because I already started late. So here I am, you know, most people have, you know, their 20s going into their plethora of like body of work. Mariah has that. J-Lo has that. And I was just 10 years behind, you know.

18:09But you think that served you very well? Because often when it's teenagers in the spotlight or people even in their young 20s, you're thrown this attention, this fame, this power. I can't imagine what it would have been like. Because I was already naive at 30. Like when I was fired from my job at 29. Is this when you were a beauty salon? Thank God it wasn't the beauty salon. It was the facial and, you know, like the facial place. Okay. Jarjet Klinger. I'll say your name. And, you know, you have to be really quiet. Was your process lovely? Great. You look glowy. You know. And I was like, oh, my God.

18:51You're amazing. And that's just, oh, wow. You look so young. You know, like it was not happening. I was way loud. So you got fired for being loud? Oh, I totally did. And then I got a record deal. So I was collecting unemployment check, got the TV gig, was on TV. Then everybody wanted to sign me. So it was very rando. So not expected to work out at all because I didn't sound like anyone, look like anyone. Nobody wanted to have me wear glasses. You know, they're just like, why are you wearing sunglasses? I was like, it's a tint. Yeah. I was like, I dare you to put them on. You know, I would always be like, and they're like, oh, my God.

19:29Such a strong prescription. But this pressure exists when you start out. And I'm thinking, especially as a female, it's let's change your look. What box can we put you in? And you were and still are unboxable. Well, and I, to be honest with you, when I was really trying in the 20s to think that I could do this business, they would ask all those questions I was like but I'm a singer like why what category am I in I'm in the singer category I was like I don't really understand what any of that means why do I have to think so deeply about all the things like I didn't realize that you couldn't just be an artist so all of those things started to get me to think that I'm not part of this business because I don't have a girly way of dressing and I do wear glasses and I just was a little tougher, more on the pink side, you know, which I'm very glad she stuck to her own guns and she does her music the way she wants to do her music, even though she they bent her to be like, oh, we might want to make you urban.

20:38And she was like, no, I'm going to push back on that. Love that. You know, That's inspiring for people that really don't want to follow the mold and feel that they're not fitting in because they're following the mold. So where does that drive, that determination come from to say, I'm going to do it my way? Is that something you learned in childhood? Is it from your mom? Probably seeing the eternal struggle of a single mom. You know, it wouldn't surprise me that that was sort of my survival technique is I'm used to it not working out or I'm used to this. So let's figure out another way. Started very young, my mom said, when I was when my sister wouldn't get a doll.

21:27And if I decided to play with it and broke it, it became my doll. And it would always have like one arm or the head would be like. Or I cut the hair, you know, that glorious stuff that we do and we think we're so smart. And so that would be my new doll. And so I'd have all these, not a lot of dolls, but some dolls. So I'd have to play hospital because they would be broken. Yeah. The weight bumping. Yeah. So I was like, oh, hospital and the doctors. And then randomly I'm like sick my whole life. So, you know, it's a very interesting story. But I found the positive in here's your broken doll. And I'm like, OK, I'll play with it anyway.

22:04She's fine. And, you know, just because she broke and doesn't mean she can't talk to the other girls, even though her head's like falling off. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting that when my mom said you just, you know, it's very ironic that you didn't see that as a punishment. I was like, oh, cool. OK. Sorry, Sean. Yeah. Then I'm like. But it makes you extremely flexible in terms. I was surprised that that was sort of my inner choice was this ability to find the positive in a not so great situation. So when you get that break, so you end up on this MTV show, The Cut, and you've got lots of focus on you, attention.

22:48You've got people like Elton John going, who is this person? They're amazing. Craziest part. We love Elton. That's the craziest part of probably anything that has happened to me in my life was as I was young, I'd listen to his records because they were in the house. Barbra Streisand, Elton John. I would stare at the albums. I would put them on. And he was so, I think, instrumental to when my mom said I had to wear glasses and be wearing glasses at six years old. She said I did. I was like yeah I am okay well I didn't expect that didn't expect that answer from you because not many girls want to put the glasses on and I asked her for the windshield wiper once and she was like oh god now we're in trouble you know this one so yeah that was that was quite the the thing and and he reviewed my record that was the part that just tripped me out I was like he's reviewing records?

23:48I was like, he's EJ. Like, why is he like a journalist? He's obsessed with new music. Right. And that was so beautiful to have the first full circle moment to me, someone like him talking about my album so positively and with such passion and then deciding to say, yeah, let me bring you on stage with me and just sing a little song, you know, for Madison Square Garden. And I'm like, it just it still just plays. I'm so glad it was recorded. That's just and, you know, visually and and on the record because I see him in his face and my face. And I remember it like it's yesterday and especially his kiss to my belly button after I sang the song.

24:37He's like, Anastasia, because that's how he says my name. And I refuse to correct ever correct it because it's Elton. It's Elton. Anastasia. Yeah. And he did. And then literally went down and kissed my belly button. And I was like, oh, my God, wait, was I supposed to kiss his hand? Like, I was just like, what? And I'm staring at the camera like, did that just happen? Did you see that? And then I go off and I scream backstage. Like, I'm like, I can't believe that. You know, I did it. I sang with him. This is this is who I am for a second. you know oh it's trippy it's such a beautiful thing when you see established artists really support and elevate new talent coming through have you felt the need to pay it forward having experienced i do it all the time and i can't half the time remember and i love instagram for that to be honest i slide into people's dms and they're just like what yeah because there's so much uh art out there and there's so many talented people that you can't keep up with them and i'm like who's this suzuki you know i like there's so many different names and and until you hear their talent or see what they're doing i'm i just praise i'm like uh just keep it up this is amazing your work is great you know nice like and they're like oh my you know it's usually big letters oh my god you're then they tell me their story and sometimes i'll leave them a voice message i'm like, what's up?

26:05And I did that with Anne-Marie and she still to this day is talking about, she's like, oh my God, I want to use it as my ringtone. You know, she's like, it was just like, hey, and she like imitated me. It was the cutest thing. But I was like, you're amazing. I love you so much. And she's just like, you just left me a voice message. That's crazy. Oh, the dream. Of course it is. And it's so lovely to shine a light on people doing brilliant things. So at this point, your career gets going, you're recording music, you're living this thing that you dreamed of for ages. Then you get sick. Right. So you get diagnosed with breast cancer.

26:42Had you felt a lump? What had taken you to the doctors at this point? That's the craziest part is no, no lump, no nothing. I wanted a breast reduction. And I was quite full figured up there. And it bothered me because I was small and I would always feel like that was a distraction as a singer. You know, I was like, listen to the voice, not, you know, like point in the wrong direction. And my back hurt and my mom had had one. So I just felt like, you know, it's just going to feel better. And I went in, found a wonderful doctor, went in and he just said, I just want to have you do a few of these things.

27:24and then get a mammogram. And I was like, what a mammogram is? I just always assumed that was when you're older, you know. And he's like, well, you know, you're quite dense, large, whatever breasts. I want to make sure that, you know, it's all he said, it's all clean. And I said, I'm clean. I mean, I'm pristine. I remember totally sounding so stupid. and then went to go and get the mammogram and it was very different. Like right after the first scan, it took a minute and then they were like, we're just going to take one more scan. And I was like, one, then an ultrasound and I was just, I have cancer.

28:12I just knew it because I could feel it in their spirits that they're like, you know, like this is not do you need water? I was like, oh, God, you know, their guilt, you know. And so the next day I went into the doctor checking the oncology and he's like, yeah, it is. It's cancer. And I was just like, what? it. So then they take the biopsy. And when they take the biopsy, I don't know what stage I'm in. You know, I don't know what it's going to be. And I'm kind of like, wow, I didn't think I was going to die from cancer. I actually was like, I'm going to go with planes going to go down or I'm going to like, you know, die in a in a chair with a cigarette, you know, like I'm going to do something really great.

29:05And I just didn't, I didn't think that was the way I, you know, after all this cancer. Um, and then it leaked before I even kind of knew what stage I was in. So it was when I was waiting for the results, probably I went in as Anastasia. I didn't think I needed to have a, you know, pseudonym. So I actually gave myself away in the hospital and there was the world news just saying, would you like to make a comment? And I was like, is this, I'd never made a comment like that, or I didn't think that was real. So the, well, you know, Anastasia's press people said that she said, you know, like, I was like, wait a minute, I've never even done that.

29:59I don't remember what I had said, but it was just kind of like maybe it was helped. I don't know. But it's terrible that this was leaked. Yeah, it was not cool because I didn't even have a time to tell anyone. No. And Elton called right away and Sharon called right away. And they're like, is this true? And I was like, it's true. And I don't know what I'm I don't know what to do. And they're like, Sloan Kettering, we got you. Here's this. Here's that. And I just felt so embraced by everyone. But I have to say when I got the diagnosis that I was, you know, pretty much not even stage one. So it was super early in the way that radiation and I was too young to actually need to do.

30:47I didn't need to do the chemo, but I also didn't have to take too young to take the drugs. So they just blasted me with radiation. But in that brief moment when the good news came, I had already convinced myself that I have the best wig makers. I have the money now. I can do this. And then I get the news that I don't have to do it and somebody else is not going to have the money and is going to get the other news. And then a shout of guilt for me that I'm like, why did I get the good news? Like that's now I'm guilty. And I just felt so much more of a purpose to help others because I was like, no way.

31:31This is first of all, I didn't even know the stats were the stats. I didn't know that 80 percent, 70 percent of women that get cancer. It's not hereditary, ladies. It's not hereditary. And I think that number freaked me out because I'm like, why don't you discuss that? Why don't doctors discuss it? And they say that, you know, we can't tell you what it is that gave you that particular cancer, which is not hereditary cancer. It's food. It's diet. It's stress. It's air. It's everything. But they can't tell you to do nothing. so they just will they can only do what doctors do which is go on science and so i am not a doctor i go on stasia and i go loud and i go direct and i said they gave the wrong girl cancer is what i just think i was like you thought cancer was going to be a secret but it's not I got you.

32:32So I just used it differently. And I use the pedestal as a way to inspire women not to be scared or to be. Yeah, it's frightening. I'm not even going to say that any of it. And the second time cancer was even more frightening because that was taking the journey to end all all breast cancer in my life. but you really have to do your best to be your own advocate in every part of your life including your health and i know that it's scary and i know you don't want to hear diabetes or whatever it is that that life has to offer but if you don't hear it you're worse for it if you don't try to get it early no matter what it relationship work all of it don't drag it out and make it worse for yourself you know but this is me wiser I didn't do any of this when I was younger so you know I I do appreciate that I wrote really great songs about things that I didn't quite understand till now I'm like oh is that what I meant to say yeah I never really listened to my songs in a way of learning them yeah they totally have a new meaning I mean after having it the second time which was Was there a 10-year period between?

33:52Yeah, 10 years to the month. To the month. Wow. I don't know about the date. I didn't know the date, but I was like, really? It was January 2003, and it was January 2013, and I was like, this has to be a joke. Now, during that 10-year, I said to myself, if I got it, and I was blessed enough to get it early to the point that I could control the narrative, getting rid of them. Yep. So you had a double mastectomy. Double mastectomy, radical, you know, absolutely no nipples, like that kind of radical, not trying to have one percentage of anything. And because I've had Crohn's disease prior, you know, they're trying to find a muscle to use because I've also been irradiated.

34:38So the pec muscle is not what it used to be and they can't put it on top of an implant. So many different variables. So my double mastectomy was so radical. And so on my back, I have these huge scars because they had to take my lats and put them as the hammock that holds the new bionic boobie. And so, you know, the fascinating part is for about four years, every time I yawned, coughed, did anything. It was not a good look. It was like I was like, ha, ha, ha. Oh, they're like moving. Right. Because when you use your back, it's like a current muscle that's always working. But here it feels very different because on your back you're like, no big deal.

35:28You'll yawn. It reacts like a normal muscle. but here it's like no i was like had i known i was going and it like you know it was crazy wow but i got the nerve cut eventually because i just couldn't i was like i can't live with i don't if the muscle doesn't react the same way i understand all of the visuals are what you tried to do for me i appreciate but i want to swim like this oh like when you go to try to do anything that's like using it would do the opposite oh wow it was kind of a party trick for my friends i bet it was you know but it really became i was so aware of it all the time and i i didn't want that to be a reminder anymore so i do want to move on to the new right but i was healthy so mine were like you know yeah my lats were ready to party they were lancing it up

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38:19So how do you move on from health situations like that and stay positively minded? Because I'm sure there'll be many people listening to this out there who have been through, it might not be a health situation, but something that really flawed them, something that felt huge. And it can be very difficult to move on and feel optimistic and positive. So I hate feeling that way more than anything else. So my goal is to figure out how not to feel that way. And so constantly as things come my way that's yucky, I allow it to be there, understand, validate it. You got to validate your reality, but then go, uh-huh, banana, you, you know, go through your stuff.

39:09It's going to come back. You're going to have hicks and roads. And the more you continue swimming, you then realize that each situation becomes a wee bit easier. And as long as you're working on you and the people you have around you, you realize are really good supporters of being a better you. that in itself is almost a full circle of being able to have a great recipe to continue forging through all the mire like lockdown didn't freak me out i like my own company i think i'm quite exciting alone but uh people were just trash they were messed up and i was like yo i've never seen so much good television i never knew about a 90 day fiance i'm excited all those crime dramas yeah I never got to see anything before because I was working all the time.

40:02So I, you know. But did you have a certain amount of anxiety that you were left with after experiencing this? I am a very anxiety person. I have a lot of anxiety. That's interesting. I talk myself down all the time. My voice in my head is always not necessarily the voice you want to hear. It's the analytical voice. My friends sometimes say anal stasia. What a nickname. I'm a little anal about that. Don't worry too much about that. But it's interesting that you can be an anxious person who is very optimistic because normally that can tip into pessimism. Well, because my brain is in that reality versus how you really feel, but then you got to move on.

40:46Like you can't do both of them at the same time. You either stay still in that craziness or you uncomfortably move on and eventually it's not uncomfortable anymore. It just – but it's like a yearly struggle. It's become so much easier. But it was like if anyone heard what my brain was like 25 years ago or 30 years ago, I used to call myself Miss Piggy because I didn't think I was pretty. I didn't think I was attractive or feminine. So I, you know, just was not very nice to myself in my head. But I always wanted to make people laugh and I always wanted to be that kind of person and positive. But if it was about me, I was really not nice to myself.

41:36So I try to not use that much language in my head as much. But I still. It's hard. I think we've all got that horrible shitsy little voice. Yeah, I think women, too. It's just, you know, it's hard not to compare. It's hard not to feel stressed about getting older and going, OK, well, yeah, I used a lot of Botox, but I can raise my eyebrows crazy because I'm not, you know, I'm like, so I'm pretty OK about having a permanent frown. But, you know, being honest with saying it and embracing life and hormones, girl. Oh, my God. Menopause was rugged the last few years for me. And people don't want to talk about that.

42:18But, girl, I thought I had a brain tumor. I thought I, like, I had just gotten two new discs a few years ago. I was like, my disc slipped. I was like, something's wrong on me. I have migraines. I thought I was having early dementia. show like I was diagnosing myself you know because I'm so sick all the time I'm a great doctor that was the worst the fact that I was diagnosing myself I should have just checked my numbers we know nothing about hormones and we're not necessarily told anything about them and they until you're spinning so much right of how we're feeling oh and it so helps and it so helps I'm doing you know the pellets and I'm doing all the uh the good hormones shall we say but I really do feel that that it's okay to start at any time yeah i don't want women to think early is not good and that you're not a woman because you're starting early it just you're helping your brain you're feeding your brain yeah you're feeding your spirit because it's the all the nutrients is being you know depleted so really it's kind of like vitamins for your hormones but I don't think enough people positively think that dealing with menopause is is it like she went through menopause yeah yeah yeah I was like I thought a hot flash was hilarious I was because you're just sitting there and you're like my upper lip is sweating are you hot is it did you turn down the air conditioning you know and I kind of thought that that was fun to be honest but I didn't really realized that I had gone through menopause within like two years I was yeah peri pre and then like during the pandemic after the pandemic it was like I was gone yeah and you know yeah it was just like like a journey yeah this I this is like on my mind a lot my mom went through the menopause at 42 which I am now oh okay there's little things where I think that's probably something to do with that.

44:17I should probably make some moves to deal with it. But I think a lot of us just go fingers in it. But it's if you do something, it's not going to change anything. It's just going to make you feel better. Yeah, exactly. And it's not a drug. They're really, really good bioidenticals that are out there. Bioidenticals are the jam. And trust me, I'm a cancer survivor and don't get freaked out. A lot of that is yes, is the way to go. And I think that you get with a good hormone doctor and a gynecologist that really understands how to work with the naturals. And you can start as early as you want. I mean, this shit that us women have to go through.

45:00But men are doing it too. Unreal. You know how many men are in the office when I'm in the office to get my pellet? Yo, don't sleep on it. Don't snooze on it. Men can do it too. They have their own dip. They have their own menopause that they don't want to talk about. But truthfully, I think it's good to let people know that it's not the negative that people talk about. If you wait too long, it's negative. And I waited too long. I got to the point that I was every month or every two months, I would have this migraine that would feel behind my eyes. I couldn't deal with light. And then I would throw up for almost a whole day and have a hangover for two days.

45:45I was just kind of like, sinuses are terrible. So I diagnosed myself with sinus stuff. So I was like, I have sinusitis. Yeah. Really? Well, a doctor hasn't told me, but I have sinusitis. And then found out I was zero last year. And I was like, oh, God. All right. I guess I don't have a brain tumor. OK. So just give me stuff. That's great. And I feel amazing. It has changed. I feel like I have so much more energy. My brain is functioning better. And, you know, we're all tired as we're doing a lot of different things. But I think it doesn't help when your own body is drained, not just tired, but your own body is draining from your own body.

46:29Yeah, it's working very, very hard. And I think these are the sorts of positive conversations we can have about aging in general. Because I am so bored of like, even when I was researching today and looking into all avenues of Anastasia's world and looking at your backstory and interviews, the amount of people that ask you about aging as a woman is tedious. Yeah, it's a lot. And it's not the same for men. You don't ask Leo DiCaprio, how's your crow's feet doing? How are your crow's feet, Leo? What's going on with them? We don't hear it. There's such an obsession about it. And especially for someone like yourself who's in the public eye, who's in an industry where youth is everything.

47:12It's like, who's the youngest, youngest musician out of there? Well, I mean, and now it's really with all the filters. It's really stressy. And I will say, you know, some of them are cute. And then I'll want to do a post and I'll not realize I'm on one that's ridiculous. And I'll just talk into it like, oh, God, that's just sorry, everyone. I was I don't know why my eyelashes over here. You know, it's like it's just I find them fun, but people are using them as their real life path. And of course, that's unattainable. You can't have that be your timeline. That's not who you are. And before the filters, it was touching up all the pictures that you take and making your legs skinnier and making you taller and all of that kind of thing where, you know, I mean, I have freckles, honey.

48:02I don't airbrush them off. Like, what are you going to do when I have to be in front of somebody's face? They'll be like, so I never really allowed them to do too much, which is why when people see me now, they're like, you look the same. I'm like, well, you know, I mean, I would have made myself look ridiculous. and then you'd be like hmm but there's this strange homogenized human that's being created by algorithms where we're so used to seeing yeah a face that looks a certain way rather than everyone's delightful unique gorgeousness yeah i know it really is interesting that you start seeing who takes the bait and who doesn't and um and it's all good anyone can do whatever they want to themselves in any way, shape or form.

48:48I'm not here to judge, but I do feel that the pressure that has come on the newer generation is this is the only way to look. And what you're doing when you're doing that, it's not just a haircut. Like it's not the trendy haircut or the trendy pant. Nope. You know, it's like when you laser your situation down there and then you go, oh, the muff is back and you're like, can't get it. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, make that commitment, girl. Yeah, you're bold. You can't, like, you know, put an artificial one on there. And more drastic. Like you say, you know, it's obviously it's anyone's choice to do whatever you want.

49:24But when it's coming from an outside pressure and that's informing what you do and actually informing how confident you are to just turn up as you. Right, but it's also like that whole air. There is that everyone looks like the same person. So if you don't look like that, you're not attractive. And I definitely don't swallow that at all because I've never been someone that was so gorgeous and on the magazines and had that pressure personally. So I didn't ever feel like, oh, my God, I'm so attractive. I need to stay attractive. So that wasn't my thing. But I will say that when I started in the industry, the one thing that I was probably the most and this is the first time I've ever said it.

50:10So cheers to you. I was very stressed out that when I was signed, they wanted me to wear extensions and they wanted me to, you know, I was like, well, what's wrong with my hair? And then they wanted me to wear all this makeup. And I was like, oh, I guess I wasn't pretty. I never wore makeup before. I only would put lipstick on and put my glasses on. And, you know, what I had on my head was hair, you know, to steal with it. And it was, you know, eight rows. doing doing I'm out of love days were eight rows of hair that's why you know she had the yeah and I almost felt like I could not leave or go out of a hotel or go anywhere unless I looked like her and nowadays I hire people and for the day you have this and then you know on my Instagram I You know, my hair is here and it's different.

51:07But I now have that part of me that I could go, you know, I'll clip it in and clip it out. You know, that's why I say I travel with my hair. You know, it's OK. But I never wanted anyone to know that it wasn't mine because then I'm not going to be pretty. that literally was a narrative in my voice in my head and I was like it's terrible that now I'm insecure about my hair I never was insecure about my hair before I got in the business yeah you know and insecure that I foundation like what's oh my god I need foundation that's we definitely have to cover that up and so but then I went backwards and I was like no we're not we're not giving into that I can't put makeup on my face I can't do my own hair so what you see is what you get if you don't pay for glam you know like yeah but also all of this detracts from your incredible gift that is your voice and the music essentially like all of so there must be a discomfort for you or certainly was back in the day where you're like wait a minute I'm a good singer that's all that matters that was that was my uh a lot of people wanted me to sing the moment I would get on their shows like hey so anyway can I hear you really sing you know can you sing a little bit of your song.

52:16And I'd be like, I would do that because I felt as though I needed to prove to them that I was a singer, you know, that I really did sing like this because it was almost as if they didn't believe, was it studio or was it real? And so for the first part of, you know, the year or years in my career, it was like, it's, yeah, it's coming out of her voice. It's crazy. And it was a nice feeling to do that. But within all of the glam and the photographs and the photographers and them making you, you know, I doing a campaign where it looked like I was 5 '10". You know, I was like, really? I was like, this is really harsh, but I can't do anything about it because it's a campaign.

53:02but if it was like my record I'd have a little bit more say but wow you know like it was it's almost too much that kind of thing so I'm glad to just style it back and and have my own uh comfort level of how when I want to get pretty I get pretty yeah and uh and I use the word pretty as when you put all the stuff on you know and you're not in your sweats which makes you feel good though yes and there's nothing wrong with that whatever makes someone feel pretty it could be smoking a cigarette whatever that is for you cheers so for me it's when the glam squad puts the hands on me I'm like I mean I look like her you know I'm like are you the singer on a stage like yes I am you know so it's fun you know that's the best looking back at yourself starting out in the industry.

53:55Would you do anything differently?

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55:05With Wix, you practically can. Wix's website builder is packed with powerful AI tools to make running your business online easier. Build a full site just by talking with AI. Get an AI agent to manage your sales and marketing. or work like a 10-person team, even if it's just you. So you don't need superpowers to get everything done. You just need Wix. Try it out for yourself at Wix.com. I don't know that I could do anything differently because I had to learn all of the negatives to understand that it didn't work for me. I think that my honest, true answer is I decided to leave my record company because my A &R guy was leaving.

55:53And he's the one that signed me. And he was with me for seven years, the whole journey, seven, eight years of being signed to Sony. And I can't. He's my only. He's my one and only. He makes the music happen. He thinks in my head he took me as I was and said, this is who you are, even though they put 14 pounds of hair and still he allowed me to wear my glasses and be crazy with my clothes so we got to give him that and he wanted to go to a different label and I said I want to go with you and that probably wasn't a very good idea business wise didn't quite think about that part because mine was loyalty and artistry but leaving Sony the monster that it is wasn't because Sony was awful it also was Sony, BMG, they were all like everywhere and nowhere at the same time during 2007, 2008.

56:51The market was crashing and dying as far as money. You know, we were in a recession and I was at the top of my game and it probably just wasn't fair to leave Sony. But he didn't really know at that point that that probably was the essence of I never I never wanted to disrespect the record company, but I felt it just was the move I needed to make, which I probably wouldn't have made. But then again, so many things happened in my life. By doing that, I journeyed in a whole different way and I wouldn't have had certain things happen in my life. So I have to look at it like I don't know that I'd not do it again, but I do understand that sometimes when you make a decision, you sort of have to be like, yeah, probably probably should have stayed for a second.

57:43Yeah, but this is. But I had people tell me to stay, but I like organically felt like, but he's my dude, you know, loyalty. Sometimes I'm loyal to a fault. And can you be, though? I think that's a lovely quality. I think it's such a rare quality. It is, but there's where it can be a tool fault. But I'm still I still believe in loyalty and all of that and believing and faith. And I still have all that. But I can look back and go, whoopsie doodle, you know, won't do that again. Yeah, we can all do that. It's all part of it, all part of who we are. But it's not the word would never be regret. Yeah, I don't have that.

58:24I have honesty of, hmm, what was my finest moment? you know but it was what i thought i needed to do you know well i'm so glad that you're still doing what you're doing you're putting new music out there it's so good to just hang with you like on a level of even though we're like doing this podcast people like but we're also not we're also just chatting yeah we're just girls chatting we're just two gals chatting i mean like i've never told her half these things and she's like what the heck how do we have new content i love it but thank you anastasia and just all the love and luck go and lie back on that nice heated floor i know but you know i was pretending to snore no i wasn't it was it's such a real snoring such a real snore like they were like was that real i was like yeah and i posted it so you're welcome and then i made a meme for myself oh you have to check out that i forget what it was but then And afterwards, I was like, I need to meet myself, you know.

59:24So it's fun. You're the best. Oh, thank you. So are you. Love you, Anastasia. I love you too, darling. Oh, just two gals chatting away. Oh, that was just what I needed. She boosted me and the whole Happy Place team during that recording. It was just so wonderful to be with Anastasia. What an absolute gem. That was the best. Anastasia, thank you so much for coming all the way to the UK to hang out with us. Anastasia's new album, Our Songs, is essentially the greatest hits of recent German pop history, interpreted by the greatest voice in the pop world. What a combo. It's out now, as is the current single, Now or Never.

1:00:06Now, are you part of our Happy Place book club? I really hope you are. It's the place that we can all connect with fellow bookworms. In March, we're going to be reading Killjoy by Jo Cheetham. Oh, it's a really brilliant book. It tells the incredible true story of the No More Page 3 campaign and the very unlikely everyday women who made a huge societal change possible through the power of grassroots activism. It's a real celebration of what can be achieved when we shout just a little bit louder. I'd really love for you to read along with us. So grab yourself a copy and come join us on Instagram at Happy Place Book Club.

1:00:47We can all do the juicy chatting there and there'll be loads of extra content around the book too. And I will, of course, catch you back in next week. But until then, it's a huge, huge thank you to Anastasia, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios and to you. Keep being you.

1:01:36We'll see you next time.

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1:02:26Try it out now at Wix.com. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games, saints and sinners, unexpected laughs and unspoken truths, good times, hard times, and of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue, a world premiere play only at Arena Stage. Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org. At Capella University, we believe accessible education can make a difference. That's why we offer scholarship opportunities to all eligible students.

1:03:07Un futuro diferente está más cerca de lo que crees con Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.