Are you a witch? Believe in your magic and the power of ritual, with Poppy Jamie

0:00Fearne Cotton: Before we start, this episode contains some chat you might find difficult to hear, so do check the show notes for more details. Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, Fearne Cotton. This is the show that wants you to trust your gut. Today, I'm chatting to Poppy Jamie. I called my mum and she said, Poppy, I don't know whether you want to know this, but I knew you weren't going to have this baby. I said what? And in that moment it's so strange but for me that was the most healing thing I could have received because I thought oh my gosh Poppy I was never, this is I don't know why I was pregnant but I was never supposed to have this baby like the fact that my mother wrote down I wasn't going to have a baby next year was giving me kind of so much hope that everything was unfolding even though it was desperately painful and the most traumatic thing I've ever been through it was kind of unfolding as it should Oh my God, I am going through a very mad period of life at the minute.

0:57Fearne Cotton: Everything feels very busy and I am overwhelmed. That's the word I'm looking for. I have just got, I feel very lucky. I've got lots of exciting projects that I'm working on and things that I'm doing at the minute. But that alongside sort of parenting and just being a human, it just all feels mad. I'm sure many of you listening to this will feel equally as overwhelmed. So let this be a moment for us to pause and not be racing ahead to what you've got to do next. That's what my brain constantly does. Like, oh, my God, right, I'm doing this thing, but actually I'm thinking about the three activities I've got to do or jobs I've got to do or things I've got to tick off a list in the future.

1:37Fearne Cotton: let's just all be here for the minute because I promise this chat whatever your inclination is whether to be more science minded or woo-woo minded or somewhere in between this chat will prove to be positive and hopeful and just actually bloody lovely I this chat came at the right time as did Poppy's book the book of magical living there was some synchronicity with all of it and I hope that you find that from this conversation too. So let's talk about lovely Poppy. Poppy was well known as a TV host before pivoting into the mental health space. She experienced a lot of anxiety and burnout which led her to write her first book Happy Not Perfect and now she's written this new book The Book of Magical Living.

2:25Fearne Cotton: I love anything with the word magic in. We all need more magic. I love this book because it's basically pointing out the extent to which we've been trained to dismiss the stuff that we can't measure. We're meant to trust logic over intuition and data over energy. And I think that has been massively accentuated more recently. And look, I'm here for it. If we think that quantifying, you know, tracking our sleep or our footsteps or whatever it is, if that is helpful to you and it feels like it's a positive in your life, Bloody brilliant. I'm not going to argue with that. But I do think if we are only looking at numbers, you've all become sort of slightly obsessed with quantifying everything from likes and followers to how well we're sleeping to how much energy we're burning off to whatever.

3:15Fearne Cotton: We're just trying to quantify everything like there's meaning in the numbers when actually we're not looking at just the meaning in life. just the little magical moments that we feel mean something I think we've the balance has tipped so far into numbers and I'm guilty of it you know I can get totally carried away with that like how many people listen to the podcast how many people follow me on Instagram like who fucking cares it doesn't matter actually what we all really need for our mental health our general well-being is proper meaningful moments they don't have to be huge I think they can be tiny little glimmers throughout your day throughout your week that just calm you or make you feel like you're on the right path on the right track that's what I'd rather deal in also stick with this podcast I mean quite early on Poppy has a huge announcement that got us all totally teary in the studio maybe get a tissue to hand is your kid's birthday coming up don't stress the prep The Party Shop at Michaels is your one-stop shop for everything from bluey to rodeo.

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5:53Fearne Cotton: All right, let's do it. Here's the show.

6:16Fearne Cotton: Poppy, it's so lovely to see you in real life, not just on an Instagram grid. Oh my gosh, I cannot tell you how much I am excited to be here. I am obsessed with this podcast. You've been always such a pioneer in all of this, so it's a real moment for me to be here. Oh my God, that means the world. Thank you. And thank you for writing your beautiful book, The Book of Magical Living, which I cannot tell you came to me, like good books do at the right time. I love it when you get a book and you're like, I had no clue that you'd written a book about this stuff. And it landed on my doorstep. And I was like, oh my God, I needed this right this second.

6:55That makes me so happy. The book did the same thing for me as well. It just came right on time. I love that.

7:03Fearne Cotton: I love that. So before we get into exactly what's in the book. Tell me what you mean or your understanding of magical living. What is that to you? I think that it's best to start off talking about magic and the way that it feels because everybody understands what magic feels like. That moment when you meet the love of your life on the night that you didn't want to go out but there was a small voice that said oh just go to the party and suddenly you're standing there and your destiny is about to change. or that idea that comes in the middle of the night that completely sends you on a different journey.

7:36Or perhaps it's when a loved one has died and suddenly they send a sign and you know it's from them. It's these inexplicable moments that expand your understanding of what is possible. And I often think that we see and feel magic often in tragedy or when you're on the edge of life, whether that be birth or death you know it's like something like one in 400 trillion chance of being born i mean the fact that we are just magic even by the fact that we yeah totally and it's those those moments that suddenly you go we don't understand life and to me that mystery and the fact that science is now validating how little we know nasa says we've only ever tracked five percent of the universe 95 is totally unknown you go wow why don't we lean into this 90 to five percent because if we think we know that's when I think we lose hope oh god I feel depressed

8:31Fearne Cotton: when I think oh that's it we're just blobs walking around a planet and I actually can't bear that thought I need some magic yeah I need it and everybody has experienced some form of magic and so the book was this deep dive into let's reawaken magic because the moment we decide we're not going to see it we don't see it but the moment we open up going I know my life is magical it comes faster and quicker and signs arrive before you've even thought about where they could be coming from. Yeah, that's what your book did for me. It just put a positive spin on some stuff I was not feeling positive about.

9:09Fearne Cotton: And I think that's the joy of having your eyes wide open to the possibility of magic is that you actually start to just feel a bit more optimistic. And I find anything like whether it is signs or having that almost childlike awe about things. I find it comforting and especially like the signs one. So I had read the chapter on signs and me and my daughter, who's 10, go for a walk after dinner most nights. It's like my favorite bit of the day. And we have a little walk and we chat about her day and like she's got all friendship dramas going on always. So we dissect that. And then I said to her, oh, should we chat about signs?

9:48Fearne Cotton: because you know I hadn't really we talked a little bit maybe you know in an abstract way about it previously but we started having this really cool chat about it and and I said so you could pick like anything and say that's going to be my little sign that there's something positive on the way it could be like a butterfly or whatever and we were stood by the river and she went literally as I'd said that she went oh look there and there was on a post sticking out the river a massive heron like you know a meter tall heron stood there and I was like oh my god I remember reading somewhere that herons represent something like really positive forward motion like a step into something good and then it kind of gracefully flew above the river and we both just stood there going oh my god this is so cool and if we hadn't had that chat probably wouldn't have seen the heron like that whole moment would have been missed it's like those little moments I think really add up.

10:40And it's interesting because children are more intuitive. The average five year old sees 10 more details than the average adult. NASA even did an experiment in the 60s looking for genius creative talent. And they looked at 1 ,600 children. When they tested five year olds, 98 % of them scored creative genius levels. By 10, only 30 % did. By 15, 12%. And by adults, only 2 % scored creative genius levels. It's knocked out of us. It's kind of what really made me want to write this book because if we're not careful we're living in a world that wants to destroy our magical senses we're living in a world that prioritizes logic reason science over intuition inner knowing the the unknown the things that you can't explain but you know they mean something you know the universe is going fern this way this way this is a good thing or actually hold on a minute no no don't go down that door and and I think it opens you up to start questioning life which then becomes like a scavenger hunt you're like okay if I'm on this incredible maze the snakes and ladders maze that I know I'm going to go on this amazing journey and I'm going to be given I kind of think of it a bit like Hansel and Gretel there's these breadcrumbs that you can follow and the universe is always winking at you it's always giving you breadcrumbs but it's learning to see the breadcrumbs yeah without a doubt

12:05Fearne Cotton: that knowing that you talk about I think is really important because you don't have to be particularly like woo-woo minded or think magically already or identify with that if you like everybody on the planet has had that moment where they've gone I had a feeling that either I shouldn't do that or I should do that and there's often no logic I've had moments where I think there's one particular moment that I won't really share because it's something like I'm still doing therapy about but there was one moment where I was like I just had a knowing I had a knowing and I think looking back and seeing those little moments through life we were like oh I definitely need to walk down this path or I definitely don't want to go down that path whatever it might be we do know and it is a feeling and it's like it's a very physical feeling and that you know yes we can be scientifically minded we can be cerebral but our bodies are so tuned in and that's why we call it I guess a gut instinct it is usually you know you feel it in your gut or you feel it in your body or I get like I feel almost um sort of like light-headed when I know something's off when I know like definitely don't go down that path or you know this situation is not good for you I feel like I'm sort of like spinning out a little bit I can I can it's a physical thing rather than a train of thought that I'm following and we've been taught to dismiss those feelings So you can talk to override them.

13:33And actually, I think it's interesting. Women often have the capacity to be more intuitive than men because we evolved without the same physical strength. So we needed to be so much more aware of our environment to stay safe. And it is the body. I think 7 % of communication is verbal. 93 % is nonverbal. Our body is the greatest wisdom tool that we have. And it's constantly giving us messages. and if we if we're numbing if we're separated if we're so busy we're not listening to these signals we can miss them yeah and that's what the book is really helping people hopefully to go on a journey reconnecting with their innate magic inside like even all of us i'm sure have walked

14:14Fearne Cotton: into a room and gone oh something's off it like the vibe is bad yes or you've walked in and gone oh my god this is a this is like electrifying like what this is so amazing like it's a feeling It's not something you can say, these are the reasons why I felt like something was off. You just felt like it was fucking off. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And you're so right. We are, we're actually encouraged to numb via just stay scrolling on your phone or just keep eating shit or keep buying things or like anything to distract us from feeling anything actually. Like feeling any sense of emotion or knowing.

14:49Fearne Cotton: We're kind of encouraged to just numb it down to nothingness. And I think when you start to reconnect with signs in the body, when you're going through the worst times possible, it gives you the gift of going, you're going to get through this. When you allow the universe to talk, it will talk back. And I remember being at my cousin's wedding and his mother died far too young and he just started his speech and this bird came to perch on top of this see-through tent. the moment he started and the moment he finished the bird flew off and my mom said oh she was here yeah there's so many I bet you know if we put this out on Instagram there will be thousands of people that have got stories like that whether it's somebody that's died and there's something inexplicable that happens or just some magical I even had like a weird sign this morning with a reg plate that had a word in that was related to something that I was worrying about and I was like that's got to be it was a word I was like that's got to be a good sign I love that shit oh I eat that shit up I absolutely love it now just there you mentioned when we're going through the worst things this is often when yes we need to be maybe more open-minded to this sort of thing because it can be not only comforting but also point us in I think often a healthy direction I'm the sort of person that could spiral into a negative mindset really easily.

16:19We all can.

16:20Fearne Cotton: Get totally wound up in the drama of a situation or go into self-loathing. But if I am more open-minded to, right, what are the signs pointing to here? What can I have hope in? What can I have faith in? I will act better. My mental health will be in a better state. I know that that's the way to go. and you talk in the book about your own dark times and losing two late pregnancies which I'm imagining tested you in every area how how did this mindset this way of thinking these methodologies how how did they help you get through that period of your life so I remember when I was 19 I was told by this incredible wise mentor I have called Ruth Namias and she said Poppy, there's no such thing as a coincidence.

17:10Everything is a coordinated instance. And I feel that that was one of the best things she could have ever told me because in these moments, I've been kind of taught to pause and say, this isn't the end of the world. You've just got to see this story through. And so I started writing this book and I had been diagnosed with extremely low fertility at 30 years old. I went for a check, randomly woke up in the middle of the night and I just had this feeling. I think you need to go look at your ovaries. And, you know, five years ago, there's a lot more talk about fertility now, but five years ago, nobody was speaking about it.

17:45Anyways, I'd go online, find the closest clinic, go along. And I really assumed I was very healthy and very fertile. And they sat me down and they asked me all these kind of weird questions that started making me think, oh, things don't seem quite right here. And she said, Poppy, I'm really sorry to tell you, but your markers are as if you're in your late 40s. You're on the verge of infertility. And at 30 years old, I'm single. And I'm thinking to myself, my whole life is kind of crashing down because I'm thinking, oh, maybe I can never be a mother. And so I had to do the egg freezing process, do that multiple times.

18:23I had very few follicles and as a consequence, eggs. and so I assumed that this may be just not on the cards for me and my partner also had had a history of cancer so I always when I find I found a partner absolutely in love with him and you know even you know when I thought well I'd love to have children with him I also knew his history of cancer so I knew that also might not be a possibility so I just thought okay this might not be our future and I went I have an amazing tarot reader who's a bit like a mentor and she's union psychologist called Dike Beg. And she said, she was pulling my cards and she said, Poppy, you're going to be pregnant.

18:59And I laughed. I said, hilarious. Like, love the cards are saying this. It's actually biologically kind of impossible. But whatever. And she said, just call me in five months. You're going to be pregnant. And I just put it to the back of my mind because I knew it's impossible. Maybe they think pregnant with a new book or pregnant with a business. So, you know, the tarot is a form of kind of storytelling. And anyway, so five months later, I suddenly start to notice, you know, my period's missed, but I thought I'm stressed, you know, obviously that. And I find out I'm pregnant and I cannot believe it.

19:35And I call up Diacombe, second person I call up after my mother. I said, I cannot believe I'm pregnant. And she laughs and she said, okay, you know, enjoy. And it was a felt like a real miracle pregnancy. and I loved being pregnant. It felt like I was evolving this life and it was amazing and told my mother. And anyway, every time I was coming up to a scan, she would say, I mean, look, you know, sometimes scans can go wrong. And I thought, why are you being so negative? You know, my scan is going to be fine. I'm positive thinking it's going to be fine. And the scan was fine. So I thought, honestly she's being such a worrywart it's fine anyway get to five months and we go for a scan and basically very critical bones are missing and so the baby wouldn't be able to live after it was born and so we have to go through a termination and when you're so late along so many plans have been made.

20:33So the loss is just your, you know, your grieving so many, so many things and the shock and then the trauma of an abortion that late is the most painful, horrendous thing in the entire world. You know, I was halfway through an abortion. I'm on the street floor fainting because the medicine had hit me too soon. Hadn't been able to get to the hospital at any time. It was one of the most physically horrendous experiences I've ever been through. anyway I called my mom and she said Poppy I don't know whether you want to know this but I knew you weren't going to have this baby I said what and my mom has a crystal a pendulum that she asked questions to and the crystal will either swing right or left depending on who yes or no so when I had told her in October I'm pregnant she'd asked the crystal but hadn't told me and she said is Poppy gonna have a baby next year and the crystal had said no and she wrote down all the answers the crystal said and she sent it to me and in that moment it's so strange but for me that was the most healing thing I could have received because I thought oh my gosh poppy it was never this is I don't know why I was pregnant but I was never supposed to have this baby like the fact that my mother wrote down I wasn't gonna have a baby next year knowing her daughter was pregnant and she thought I'm being crazy ignore this crystal what am I doing?

21:56Of course I want my daughter to have a baby. This is crazy town. But she wrote it down anyway, just in case. So I had the abortion. And then six weeks later, a total shocker, I'm pregnant again. And at this point, I really cannot believe I'm basically on the verge of infertility. How on earth can I get pregnant again? But it was obviously a total miracle. It was, you know, super healing. I was still kind of traumatized, but I was like, wow, this is so amazing. and um and my mom had the crystal had said poppy is going to have a baby girl in 2026 so me and my partner kind of assumed like oh okay well the crystal's slightly wrong so we're gonna have a baby in 2025 because it's gonna be the end of the year now and so we get to the three month scan and they're like do you want to know the gender and we said yes and they said oh what do you think it is and we're go it's obviously gonna be a girl and she said oh sorry guys it's definitely a boy, you know, from the scan.

22:50And then we had the test. It was a boy. And I thought, oh, that's weird. Okay. My mom just was so wrong. You know, these are things that whatever, this magical crystal stuff, whatever, fun things, but don't take us seriously. And I get to five months again and the same thing happens. There is a huge problem with the baby that would mean that it wouldn't be able to breathe on birth. And I have to have another abortion at 19 weeks. And, you know, and the doctor who saw us just said, I don't, I haven't, in my whole 30 years, I haven't seen this. I've not seen a woman having to have two abortions at five months.

23:24And it was weird because the crystal had said I wasn't going to have a baby in 2025. So I kept kind of going back to this prophecy thinking, how is it that I'm pregnant again? But you know, this crystal was giving me kind of so much hope that everything was unfolding, even though it was desperately painful and the most traumatic thing I've ever been through it was kind of unfolding as it should and so what I can tell you is I'm pregnant with a baby girl yeah yeah yeah 17 weeks oh yeah and it will come in 2026 yeah I know and it's just like if if and that's why I truly believe in truly believe in this because I just wouldn't have got through it had I not known it's gonna be okay oh I'm so happy for you oh thanks so much yeah so it's been such a journey but it's weird this book and you know the people in the book that everybody will kind of find out about you know there are these incredibly incredibly wise women and these women I to me are the heroes of today these women stand outside of society and they are able to notice things that other people can't notice and these women those magical women I think everybody has the ability to you know harness this sort of magic but it honestly if it wasn't for these incredible you know and and how I describe them as witches it wasn't for these witches the last two years would have been unmanageable.

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28:41Fearne Cotton: the reasons as to why something isn't unfolding in a certain way even though it feels terrible is there is some sort of comfort in that like you say and I'm just I'm so thrilled to hear your news I can't tell you thank you so much I can't believe it absolutely buzzing for you oh yeah it's very very it's the whole thing has been so bizarre in this pregnancy when I was finding out the gender because I knew this prophecy two years ago. I thought, I wonder what the gender is going to be when they called me up to say it's going to be a girl. And I read these notes. My mother wrote down everything. So I could read these notes back from 2024.

29:23And I thought, wow, this is beyond wild.

29:27Fearne Cotton: It's magic. It's pure magic. I mean, you talk about your mum a hell of a lot in the book. Yeah. And she really laid the foundations for you to think in this way. it's almost been a language that you've had from childhood thinking about the world in this way. And then forgot it. You know, we grew up with this really amazing magical woman that taught us to kind of, you know, notice the small things. You know, the things that make my mum's day is seeing a blue tit in the garden. And I just, now I appreciate that so much because there is nothing, she doesn't want anything that society tells you that you should want.

30:04her joy is seeing a blue tit in the garden and I think that you know when I left home you kind of go I'm gonna go and do all of these things and I chased after all these things I thought I wanted I probably didn't really want and it was a journey back to this kind of simplicity of noticing these

30:21Fearne Cotton: smaller things in life yeah I love that I mean let's talk about some of because a lot of it really resonate with me in your story of how you know first of all you're thinking right I want to to go to LA I want to host TV shows you know I did all the went to LA thing and I was like fuck that I'm coming home I do not want to be there but you know we have these ideas set out by society that these are markers of success and this is what other people will deem successes if you take them off the list and I can still sometimes fall into that trap and go no I need to be achieving more and doing more and actually what I really want to do is be at home with my kids and paint I wish I could paint every damn day like that's my dream and hopefully I am moving towards that down the line and all the other stuff is like why am I doing this is this like to prove it to myself is it ego is it because I need validation and you start to really challenge a lot of the stuff that is pushed our way it's like what we should be doing so at what point did you think oh something's missing here something's not quite right well it's interesting because I did that all of those things went to LA wanted to set up a company built a tech company and then I kind of sat there going I am so deeply unhappy I am not a natural tech founder I yes I did it and we're able to build this amazing company but I did it forcing myself to be a triangle when I was a square or the other way around and I think it's so easy for us all to change our shapes knowing that actually the original shape was so much more in line with our true self and I love what Carl Jung said says uh well said years ago the greatest privilege of a lifetime is to be who you are to know yourself and so it was a journey of going back to the purest version of myself and that was a lot of taking off many outfits that I'd put on and realize they didn't really fit.

32:18And I think probably a lot of people can resonate with that. And the other thing that I got really obsessed with was, oh, I am going to learn everything about the brain. That's going to kind of stop my anxiety. And if I know about the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala and then you realize science is desperately short when it comes to the matters of the heart and soul. And actually, when I was going through a hard time, I didn't want to go see a scientist. I wanted to go to a wise woman that was going to expand my understanding of what was possible. I wanted to go to a healer. I wanted to go and touch the invisible world and realize that my reality was very limited or what I was seeing was super limited.

32:57And that was kind of the big, the big change to going, I am doing life in such a mechanical way. And I am chasing things that society has told me to chase and actually what really makes me tick yeah really makes me

33:13Fearne Cotton: happy and who actually am I yeah and you know it's no bad thing to try on these different hats and you know you built something massively successful and that was helping lots of people and also you were you know learning the science of it and we can all do that and great and understand it but I think to have it in tandem with this other stuff I like learning about the brain I find it really interesting I'm not massively academic but I love learning and I'll always be up for chatting to people in this forum and going right tell me everything you know and I'll take it on board but I still want to go and do the magic stuff like yeah and also you know you write about rituals in the book which is another thing that I'm very interested in and again it could be very easily palmed off as like what a load of shit like doing a ritual that's not going to do anything I've got proof in my own life and that's all I'm worried about like I don't need to have some data led experiment I know that for me I've done a bunch of different rituals in different settings and it has made a huge difference to my mindset and therefore the outcome so like one of them I've talked about this on another episode before but I had to go for a medical procedure that I was dreading and I'd had like a bit of kind of I'm not gonna use the word traumatic but like a not a very pleasant situation before that that freaked me out and I couldn't I was really disturbed by it so I felt very unnerved and I spoke to a brilliant wise woman that has worked in that field for years and I said please give me a ritual or something to do on the day so that when I go into that room I feel better so it was on the 12th of December so I was like Oh, 12-12, that seems like a pretty good sign.

34:53Fearne Cotton: And she gave me a bunch of stuff to do before. And then she said, when you go into the room, scan the whole room, first of all, just so you go, right, I know exactly what my surroundings look like. Second, every person you meet as you enter the hospital, from the personal reception to every nurse in the room, every doctor, you say, oh, what's your name? So I had everyone's name, so it was a much more human experience. And then that kind of seemed to soften everything. And one of the nurses said, oh, would you like me to hold your hand? and I said I would really like that thank you and I held her hand and then there was a big delay so I was like no don't get frustrated it's going to be okay so by the time I was ready to have the procedure I looked up and it was bang on 12 midday on the 12th of the 12th and it was meant to be at 11 so it was like an hour delayed at that point and my whole mindset changed to I've spotted a tiny little speck of magic yeah and now I feel comforted I feel safe which is the main thing And I feel like everything's working for me rather than this is an awful experience I don't want.

35:56Yes.

35:57Fearne Cotton: Changed everything. A hundred percent. Einstein has a great quote. You know, you can either approach life that nothing is a miracle or approach life that everything, being that everything is a miracle. And I love the other quote from Martha Beck that says, ritual, the magic in ritual isn't that it changes the world. The magic in ritual is that it changes us. Yes. And it is. It's like ritual completely change. it rewires your body to your mind it helps you to see different things and that's kind of where i do love science where it backs up magic because as we know our brain filters out 98 of what we see we're bombarded with 11 million pieces of information a second and our conscious brain only processes 50 so what is your brain filter filtering out and that's where i think we're at risk of losing the ability to see magic and that's why it's so important to intentionally say I'm going to go into this hospital and I am going to create my own magic.

36:49Fearne Cotton: Yes. And ritual helps you to see things that you wouldn't have otherwise seen. And that's kind of why I love the science of spells. The idea of a spell feels so kind of magical, but whimsical, but kind of woo-woo rubbish. And actually what a spell does, it makes a ritual feel really fun. And when you're learning, you learn something 40 times faster if you're playing. Yes. Yes. And the other thing is the intention of focus. Abraham Hicks says if you focus on something for 17 seconds, you create a thought wave that then kind of goes into the ether. And I just, look, that's hard to kind of quantify, prove.

37:27But I think to myself, in our distracted world, when you can turn making tea into a ritual, into an intention setting ceremony to start your day, what kind of day are you going to have? Probably even if it's a 0.0001 % better day than you would have had if you were just going, okay, teabag and milk. You know, it just slowing down for a second to say, what do I want today? I want today to show me something that I haven't seen before. Yes. Intention is a key word because ritual to me is the marker of intention.

38:01Fearne Cotton: I am intending to walk into whatever situation in the most positive mindset I can. And if I haven't done something, some sort of prep or got my head in that space, I'm walking into it like anything could happen. Good, bad, ugly. Whereas I think if you set the intention doesn't mean everything's going to work out perfectly. But at least you've set the tone that you will gain the most positivity you can from that shitty situation. And there are so many things that you write in the book that I needed to hear again that week when I read it about how things unfold and on what timeline. Because we might expect like I've done the ritual.

38:41Fearne Cotton: Everything's going to be fucking great. And actually, it's like, no, sometimes you go through the worst possible thing. your own anecdotes that you've told today could be your life fucked because you've been through this trauma and the physicality of it and your headspace could be entirely negative and I've been through my own hell and back you know you could think oh that was just fucking shit and I've moved on but actually I know from my own horrible shit that happened I've created happy place yeah I wouldn't be doing any of this yes so it doesn't unfold on the timeline you want But you can usually look back retrospectively and go, oh, I get why that bloody awful thing happened.

39:22Fearne Cotton: I had to go through it because I've learned this. I have grown in this way. I have changed in a positive way. I might see life with a slightly different lens to the one I had before. Like there has to be something, some sort of positive something that comes out of it. It's fruitful. Some of the greatest magic is realizing how happy you are that you didn't get the thing you thought you wanted. Yeah. And you look back and you go, thank God, thank God I did not get that job. Thank God. Thank God that person rejected me. Oh, thank God we never moved to that country. And I kind of love that because at the time you have these plans.

39:58And this is where I am slightly, I find manifesting in the way it's taught quite a little bit tricky to kind of totally get on board with. Because I think it gives almost people too much of a set idea of what they think they want. I agree.

40:13Fearne Cotton: This is my big problem with manifesting. Me too. I don't think you should sit there writing a list of by next year I want this, this and this because what the fuck do we know? 100 % We don't know what we need is the issue with it a lot of the time and then I think it sets us up for a huge disappointment of failure like I failed at manifesting I wrote my list, I did all the things I was told to do and it still didn't happen that's not how life works 92 % of people do not achieve their goals that is not because 92 % of people have failed that is because we are on these magical journeys that we've got no idea our soul wants to go on.

40:47And actually being nimble and saying, okay, these are the things I think I want, but next week I might be a totally different person. So we need to constantly reassess. And I studied a philosophy called Kabbalah for now pretty much over 15, 16 years. And this kind of ancient magical philosophy that they have. And one of the laws of Kabbalah is the law of cause and effect. this idea that the universe and physics also says the same thing physics has as in physics it's the law of causality life the universe works on equilibrium so the cause and effect so if you are trying so hard and you are not getting the effect you want that's not because it's not coming to your point you've got you will always get what you have given yeah for good or bad and but if you know you're putting all this energy and goodness into the world you will be you are 100 % going to be receiving it back.

41:42You just don't know in what shape or form. And I also think the other thing with the law of cause and effect is you always have a choice. Do you want to be the cause or the effect?

41:52Fearne Cotton: This is the bit that I've said to myself all week because one of your teachers asked you or said to you this question in a situation, are you the cause or are you the effect? And I asked myself that question in a situation and I was like, ah, like it's humbling. yes so i in a good way yes i had this spiritual teacher say poppy have you been the cause or the effect this week and i thought what is she talking about and then i thought oh my gosh i've definitely been the effect because i've come home my partner's in a bad mood and suddenly i'm in a bad mood because they're in a bad mood and they shouldn't have been a bad mood because you know i've just come home that well i could have chosen to be the cause i could have observed their bad mood taken myself on a walk protected my energy being the cause of my environment come back and changed his mood because I have remained in my upbeat energy.

42:40And it's the same thing when you're, if you're in a traffic jam, are you the cause or the effect? The effect of the traffic jam, you're really stressed. So it means you arrive at your meeting in a bad mood. And then as a consequence, you're not coming up with the ideas that you want to come up with. But if you're the cause, and the best way to be the cause is to pause, pause and be the cause. Because in that moment, we so want to emotionally react to everything, but it makes us a victim of everybody else's emotions. And so when you're in an argument with someone, it is so easy to be the effect of their world.

43:14So if we can, and this is like the greatest magical skill that we have to practice, and it's a lifelong practice. Even for 19 years, I've been told it most weeks, and I still am terrible at doing it. But, you know, when I get an email I don't like, I'm so impulsive that I can just go, but I have to now go, probably don't respond. Don't respond. be the cause be the cause set the energy that you want to experience yeah yeah it's so true and it's

43:43Fearne Cotton: tricky because it's so much easier often to be the victim in whatever situation and I don't say that lightly because you know we've been through as have probably most of our listeners here stuff that we thought I didn't want that to happen and I also I wasn't the cause but if we can look you know I can look at my own backstory I can't speak for anybody else but I can see things that I really didn't want to happen and I can see how well I can see my part in it I can see what I am accountable for and how my string of decisions led me to be in a place I don't want to be in that's not to say it's all my fault and turn on myself there's a big difference I think here in looking at I was accountable for this and actually therefore I can be accountable to take a different route and for good change and to grow from it and it's the harder route it's much easier just to go I did it last week I had a tantrum about something I don't want this to be happening freaking out whatever it's so much easier than going pause how do I actually want this to play out it's it requires more energy it requires more energy and as a consequence to be magical it is to nurture your energy and that's there's a chapter in the book called charge your internal power source because in one study 80 percent of workers said they were burnt out they were exhausted we are in an energetic crisis i think because everybody knows all the reasons schedules are packed pressure has never been so much content social media everyone is trying to get our attention we are all exhausted but in order to take back control of your life to be the cause of your life to be the cause of what you want to happen it does require a tiny bit of energy to not react and be taken in a river that you don't want to go down yeah it takes discipline which is like boring no one wants to do discipline but discipline is like the key to so much of this is to have the discipline to not do that yes and that was the other thing that was it's very deep in this philosophy is this idea of restriction whatever you are your natural inclination is how do you restrict to create light and they always give the example of when you light a match in order to get fire and light it has to have friction so if you are someone who is easily impulsive your task in this lifetime is to restrict and to pause and not to react if you're someone who is so passive never gets into arguments and kind of lets everyone walk over you your restriction is to the opposite your restriction is to raise your voice and to be able to advocate for yourself and then this is what's kind of interesting when you go really nuanced into this deep philosophy you can realize that there is no one size fits all depending what our natural inclination is is that how do we just push slightly against it because that's how we create a new reality yes and we've all got the power to to make this change like sometimes it doesn't feel like it when life feels heavy and there's a lot of shit going on you just think I am literally getting through to the end of the day that's all I want to do yeah but if we can find those teeny moments like I'm saying this for myself I'm definitely not being authoritarian about it because again like last week I did not feel in a good headspace but this week I feel good and strong and I can go right there's an opening here for me to preserve some energy to do something for myself so I am less reactive etc think of a toilet as just an everyday object your entire perspective shifts the moment you experience a Kohler smart toilet design changes everything transforming a basic routine into something extraordinary with standout aesthetics and intuitive controls these are functional works of art.

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49:19Fearne Cotton: Now there's something you said a moment ago that's just been like whizzing around my brain A lot of this stuff is unquantifiable which is to me not a problem For some people who just want science it might be a trickier subject matter but you talk about in the book the I guess the detrimental effects of us trying to quantify everything and how it can sort of be a vibe kill essentially. So we've got all these tracking apps now. For instance, how did you sleep last night? I mean, if I wore one, it would say like shit. But if you wear one of those, you wake up and it says, oh, you only got six hours.

49:56Fearne Cotton: That could then set you off to go, well, my day is screwed. My day's going to be dreadful. I'm going to be tired. And that's you set for the day. Whereas actually, like I'll give you an example. The other week I'd had a bunch of people for lunch. I drank quite a lot of tequila. and I got a bit carried away because it was very very fun and I went to bed way later than I should have on a Sunday and I slept really poorly because I'd drunk a bunch of tequila and if I'd worn a tracking app it would have said you had full second sleep yeah but anyway I got up and I thought oh god I really don't feel too brilliant but I came here I had Joseph Fine sat in this very chair you know esteemed actor massive career behind him I'm like I am so unprofessional there's no way I should have done what I did yesterday anyway somehow it ended up being this lovely conversation where I thought I actually did quite a good job there.

50:42Fearne Cotton: And we vibed and had a good chat together. And it's like, do you know what? I didn't listen to the little voice going, you're unprofessional, you're an arsehole. I just thought, go with it. And I'm so glad I did because I had this joyful experience where I just had a great chat. And yeah, I was a bit hungover. I was a bit tired, but actually it's fine. Sometimes I think a hangover is amazing for magic. I agree. Because you slow down. You can only think of one thing. You can only think of one thing. You can only think of one thing. What job am I doing? Because I'm so hyperactive normally. When I'm just like, you know, oh, pure sober, haven't had a drink right now.

51:16Fearne Cotton: My brain is going. When I hang over, I'm like, you're chatting to Joseph Fiennes. Just chat to him. Just keep talking to Joseph Fiennes. I can only think of one thing. I'm not saying like everyone's going to get shit faced and make life better. But every now and then, it's no bad thing. This biohacking trend, I am so against. Me too. Because it's making everyone out to be small machines. Yes, little robots. And this is why I'm not afraid of AI. There's so much fear around AI because we're trying to make ourselves like AI. I don't want to be optimized. I don't need to think better. I want to enjoy life.

51:51Yes. And enjoying life is being messy. Things going wrong. And to your point, being a bit hungover and having to kind of... And it's when you miss the train, it's potentially meet the stranger that's going to change your life. things going wrong is actually often where the greatest magic unfolds i agree and so i feel that this and and the bio and most of the biohackers i know are all men who are trying to control and magic is actually releasing the control and the need to control knowing that you know what life is unfolding for you yes you're so right there's something so important about that like

52:25Fearne Cotton: the the level of control like beating human nature somehow and actually i think especially as women we are this wild mess often of menstrual cycles or how our hormones are fluctuating or how we're expressing ourselves like it's not in neat lines it's not to this schedule that works exactly to the five minute time slots it's like I mean I'm completely bored by stuff like that it doesn't interest me at all I want I I think I sort of feed off creativity and creativity is a mess it's absolutely not the greatest magic ever and it shouldn't be controlled it should be wild abandoned so your art is the ultimate magic yes you have something in your head and you're able to create it yes that is such a good point actually for anyone out there who is sort of I guess more science-led I think any of the arts doesn't matter what it is and it doesn't have to be of a high standard or professional but any level of art whether you're like singing in the car or you've had a little idea and you make it happen for I don't know like a party or you are painting or you're making a pot like whatever you classes are like you say is you've had an idea and then the next thing it's happening or it's a tangible object and the oldest word for magic is a word called heka and it's one of the oldest words we've ever found humanity wrote down and it was found on the ancient kingdom tombs in Egypt and Heka stands for divine creative energy and we are so unique as human beings that we can have an idea and create it yes and that's why I again about AI I'm not scared of AI because AI looks at what has already been thought yeah human beings we have ideas that no one has thought of before and if you open yourself up it is I think that the sky is there is there is no limit to what we can think about say someone's listening to this now and they're in the mindset i was in last week like you just think everything's fucked i this what's the point like this is just load of old shit and everything's going wrong and like last week my energy was it was sort of like the tail end of last week my energy's low i can't see the positives i can't see um i can't see the magic it is not there it is absent it i just cannot believe that it even exists if people like that are listening to this now where do they start what they they get up today and they do what go and find nature because nature is such a gift and I can prove it using science there was a study out of Exeter University that found people that lived closer to the sea had 22 % less chance of experiencing mental health issues and it's because the sea is full of negative it has negative ions negative ions interact with our nervous system calming us raising our serotonin if you go into the forest again trees are giving off chemicals that boost our immune system there's studies that found that those people in hospital that had a view of nature recovered and healed quicker than those that didn't so if we we are we are nature so go into the go into nature and there's this thing called restoration attention and restoration theory we never evolve to see straight lines we evolve to see natural landscapes so as soon as we see a natural landscape our nervous system slows down when we are in cities or when we're staring at straight screens it is so stressful for us so firstly I think it's go back to where we our ancestors came from because there's always a gift when we can connect to nature in some way shape or form and then I think it's really important what content are you surrounding yourself and who are you surrounding yourself with because when I have had moments of total despair that is when I will go seek out someone magical because actually when you meet a magical person they can totally shift your reality and it is amazing I love Marianne Williamson's quote a miracle is just a shift in perspective so that just when someone just gives you a nugget and you go yeah you're right I can totally understand my life slightly differently and that's when I do love this emerging science um in 2022 there were the Nobel Prize in Physics went to scientists that proved quantum entanglement this idea that particles can stay connected despite time and space yes I found this fascinating tell us tell us about this I mean This is when you don't feel magical and you just reflect on this idea that it's been proven particles can stay connected despite time and space.

57:07They can be at other ends of the world and yet two particles can stay connected and affect each other. This allows us to go, well, does this mean that we stay connected to people that are loved ones that die? Does this prove that telepathy, that there's many scientists that have proven that telepathy happens to, it can happen to all of us. 80 % or 78 % of people have experienced telepathic phone calls. You've thought about someone and they call. And this is the content and the material that I seek out when I am at my wits end and think that everything is going terribly and nothing is ever going to get better because I have to remind myself, I know so little.

57:47If I can stay connected, what thought can I put out there and what will

57:51Fearne Cotton: come back yes I know my god it's it all feels like liberating and relaxing to think of the world in this way yeah I think when we see or are indoctrinated by like dead ends like this is just how the world works and like this is just how your life's going to unfold or this is just going to be the outcome of something I feel like very straight jacketed with that sort of language and I know there are rules and there's etiquette and certain ways that we're going to rub along with people and the world around us but having that bigger perspective of just noticing those tiny magical things whether it's like one of my little um signs that I give myself is a lion and it all came about because I've been having a chat with a wise woman they're always older I love an older wise woman I've got some great crones in my life and we've reclaimed that word in the most positive of senses yes and and a chat came about about having this lion or more accurately lioness energy of like I stand my ground I'm not scary I'm not like scaring other people off but my boundaries are set with this powerful lion energy and um and I really loved it was a much deeper chat but I I loved the idea of like oh a little lion could be my symbol and now if I'm having a shit time I'll go right Like, come on, bring me a lion, like in the next, you know, hour or whatever.

59:15Fearne Cotton: And I'll always see one. It will pop up. It will be like on the back of a van. Or it will be like a statue on someone's, you know, house or whatever. And I just think it's having those little moments of like, it's all going to be okay. Even if it seems like it's not, it's all going to be all right. There's no harm in doing it. There's no harm in doing it. There's no harm. I mean, placebo is the greatest magical phenomena that has ever been observed. And that is science backed. As we all know, there have been countless studies of the placebo effect. People actually taking sugar pills and being told there's something and then them having some healing property.

59:52Yes, they can change health outcomes. You know, people that believe they are luckier have been found to be psychologically happier.

59:59Fearne Cotton: Yeah. People who believe that they are luckier have been proven to live longer. Yeah. Some antidepressants have had the same impact as a placebo pill. Yeah. The belief, having belief that the future is going to be better, having hope changes your entire physicality. You know, we have something like 30 trillion cells listening to our thoughts. So this idea that we can shift with our thought. My mom always says, Poppy, if you can tell your little total wiggle, what else can you tell your body to do? I love that. Isn't that it's such a it's such a simple thing to think about. And that is the greatest magical tool.

1:00:41And I'm fascinated by well-known people that have been very explicit. I love that you do this on Instagram. Secret Mystics.

1:00:50Fearne Cotton: Yes, Secret Mystics. I love. Tell us the Coco Chanel one. Well, I was going to say because when you told me the lion is your symbol, the lion was very important to Coco Chanel. Coco Chanel built her whole business based on signs, synchronicity and magical wisdom and psychics. So a psychic told her that number five was going to be her lucky number. So as a consequence, she named the perfume number five, which I think is the most successful perfume to ever sell in the history of perfume. In her house, you can see through the collections of Chanel, they've used symbolism to have a magical effect.

1:01:28Christian Dior is the same. he spent his entire life speaking to a psychic. When he was a young child, he went to a fair and someone looked into a crystal ball and said, you're going to change women's lives. You're going to empower women. And that's how you're going to make your money. And he then, he had a lucky number and everything was based around number eight. And it's all been documented and people around Coco Chanel and Christine Dior have documented their interest in the mystical. and even there's American presidents, Ronald Reagan and Nancy Reagan, used an astrologer for his entire time throughout the White House.

1:02:04Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, the greatest scientists that have ever lived, spent more time focused on the mystical and the magical and the unknown than they did on science. J.P. Morgan, one of the greatest financiers that have ever lived he had a personal astrologer called evangeline adams in new york who he asked her for all the dates that he should do big money moves wow and as a consequence is one of the most successful americans i've ever lived and so when i started to like unpeel the history of these huge empires yeah that were all built by people who were very rational all these people were building very rational businesses and yet they did not deny the mystical yeah you can do both you can do both you can do both I fucking love it oh my god it's like I feel buzzed I needed to

1:02:54Fearne Cotton: have this chat I absolutely needed to have this chat um before we wrap up which I don't want to happen quite frankly I'm going to ask you a couple of questions and I wonder if they relate to what we've talked about today one of them is a music choice because we're making a happy place playlist is there one song that makes you feel maybe it is the essence of magic and everything that we've talked about today i quite like nina simone's i put a spell on you oh i love nina simone so much she was very magical i mean if you listen even if you listen to his lyrics yeah it's a great song and um so i think she was particularly magical i love her song um a little sugar in my bowl i love that song she's just got the best voice she's the best voice and it comes from the heart And I think music is an amazing magical tool.

1:03:44And I'm sure you've spoken about on the podcast tons, but dancing. We know how dancing, you know, raises your energy. If you're going to do a ritual, do a dance beforehand because you've raised your frequency. So then whatever you put your mind to, I think is charged with the energy of dancing. I love that.

1:04:01Fearne Cotton: And this is often a tough question because it could be anything or any place or anyone or any mindset. But where is your happy place? I think my happy place must be at my parents' lavender farm. In their retirement, they set up a charity lavender farm to raise money for Parkinson's and Huntington's. And it's just, it's so amazing because that even how it came about was magical. My dad was driving down this country road. He'd taken the wrong road. He didn't know where he was going. And he saw this field. And lavender is very difficult to grow because it needs very certain soil. and it just so happened that this random field on a road he shouldn't have taken was the right soil to have this dream he's worked his entire life just to be able to build a lavender farm and they yeah and that when I go there I think wow this is just totally magical yeah it's the outcome of magic yeah I love it oh that's so gorgeous look I cannot thank you enough for being on the pod and Also, I am thrilled to hear your news.

1:05:09It's honestly made my day.

1:05:12Fearne Cotton: And I wish you all the love and all the luck. Oh, gosh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate you having me on. Oh, that was absolutely electrifying. I loved that chat so much. I'm buzzing for Poppy and her beautiful news. That was such a great moment. I didn't know she was pregnant. I had absolutely no idea. So it was the most amazing surprise to hear that. And after hearing the heartache that she's gone through and the physical trauma that she's gone through on that path to getting pregnant or having been pregnant twice before, I'm absolutely elated for her. So, so happy for her.

1:05:56Fearne Cotton: And honestly, this book is just beautiful. It really cheered me up at a time when I needed it. so go get it. It's called The Book of Magical Living and it's out right now. And look, speaking of books, are you part of our Happy Place Book Club? If you're a bookworm, you love a good read, even just a beach read, then we are your people. It is not an exclusive club. All you need to do is follow us on Instagram basically and we all read the same book together every month and then have a nerdy natter about it on Instagram. So our handle there is at Happy Place Book Club, nice and simple. In a couple of days time you'll be able to hear my chat with our June author Armani Thompson who's written an incredible debut novel called Honey.

1:06:37Fearne Cotton: You will love that chat whether you read the book or not so stay tuned for that one. All right until next time a massive thanks again to Poppy and to you. You are completely wonderful and magical.

1:07:08Fearne Cotton: happy place is researched by me fern cotton the producer is anushka tate at happy place studios with studio engineering by basil oxtoby think of a toilet as just an everyday object your entire perspective shifts the moment you experience a Kohler Smart Toilet. Design changes everything, transforming a basic routine into something extraordinary. With standout aesthetics and intuitive controls, these are functional works of art. Stunning design that never sacrifices performance. Enjoy customizable features for elevated comfort and convenience. It's more than a fixture. It's a cleaner routine and a more refined space.

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