Best of 2023: Relationships, regrets, and psychedelics

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. Merry Christmas. Today I want to take a little reflective look back at some of the episodes that I believe have really helped me out this year. Ones that have felt actually very game-changing and also episodes that I believe could be helpful around this time of year which can be joyful but can also be incredibly tricky for many people too. We can work out disagreements with each other in a way that neither of us feels like we've lost. We both feel like we've come out okay on the other side of the disagreement. that makes the relationships stronger.

0:40It was just so cool to have somebody not only encourage you to be yourself, but through the process, I think he allowed me to love parts of myself that were imperfect. An addiction is a behavior where people can't stop thinking about a drug or gambling or something else. So there's a sort of wanting circuit in the brain which is overactive. Psychedelics disrupt those circuits. They allow people to reflect on themselves. The only thing that turns a mistake into a regret is our own judgment upon it. It's really just a matter of perspective. So every regret is a mistake, but every mistake doesn't have to be a regret.

1:17You might well be listening to this on Christmas Day itself. Maybe you need just a little quiet time away from the family. More on that coming up. Or maybe we're approaching the new year and you want a bit of motivation to help you take control of the kind of life that you want to live. Look, whatever your holiday season is looking like, I've hopefully got you covered. There's some really gorgeous stuff in here about relationships with other people and also with ourselves, about the importance of nature and getting outside and moving our bodies and also about living life without regret. The market's uncertain.

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2:31All right, let's do it. Here's the show.

2:54right let's talk about Bob Waldinger oh my god I love Bob I should probably call him Professor Robert Waldinger, but I think we're friendly enough now for me to be able to call him Bob. The relationships in our lives are often put under a microscope at this time of year. For many of us, this is when we get thrown together with lots of perhaps random family members and old friends for various parties and celebrations. I think at this point in my life, I'm lucky enough to say that I usually manage to navigate Christmas relatively well, but that's mainly because I'm pretty good now at setting boundaries about what kind of Christmas I want.

3:32I don't really want to go to Christmas parties, so I politely decline all of them, actually. And I'm also now, I guess, a little bit better at sinking into the moment, not sweating the small stuff so much, and just trying to be in the moment to really enjoy it, like take in the little twinkly lights, really enjoy that glass of mulled wine, and really sink into watching home alone on the sofa again. But of course, Christmas can be well stressful and also being around lots of people might bring you a bit of tension. The other thing I want to really point out is that tragically, so many people will be really lonely at Christmas, which breaks my heart.

4:13We have a really open house here at Christmas. So we have a mix of family and friends, people that might not necessarily have their own family, perhaps in this country or for other reasons. and I really love that bringing together of lots of different people. If you are feeling lonely or maybe you might know someone lonely, it's important to remember that those lonely people might not feel like reaching out. They might be worried that they're putting a burden on someone else or perhaps they're just not feeling up to seeing other people. Loneliness is a huge problem at Christmas but it might also be a time that you really put extra effort into nurturing your relationships, making time for friends you haven't seen forever, visiting family that don't live anywhere near you.

4:59It's a really good nudge at this time of year to do that. Bob Aldinger is a psychiatrist and a psychoanalyst. He wrote a book called The Good Life, Lessons from the World's Longest Scientific Study of Happiness. That key to life? The relationships in our lives. They might not always be easy, but putting the work in to make strong connections can literally make us happier and healthier. We can give the impression that relationships are supposed to be happy all the time. They're not. A relationship that's important always has differences, often has disagreements. And what we found when we studied relationship disagreements, we asked couples to come into our lab and argue with each other, which they did, you know, about like housework or children or whatever.

5:47And what we found was that it wasn't a problem, even if they got angry at each other, that wasn't a problem in terms of how satisfied they were or whether they stayed together five years down the road when we checked in with them. It was whether there was respect, even as they argued, and some measure of affection. And so what we find is that what matters is that you find ways to work out disagreements. And that if we can work out disagreements with each other in a way that neither of us feels like we've lost, that we both feel like we've come out okay on the other side of the disagreement, that makes the relationships stronger.

6:28And so the job in relationships is to welcome the disagreements and find ways to resolve the differences together. I find that so interesting because I can certainly think back to times in my life where I've either had a turbulent time with it could be an ex-partner or in a friendship. And in those moments, my instinct is to run and think, I want to hide. I don't want to see anyone. It's too risky to be in a friendship or a relationship. It's too complicated. I don't understand the rules. And I just push them all away. And I think, again, reading your books made me realise, no, that's kind of the point is the challenge and how you overcome it together and how that bond grows through that.

7:15And I think that, again, is really empowering for people to hear, for people that feel burnt from relationships or feel rejected. I think rejection is a huge problem for so many people. They're so scared to connect with new friends, colleagues, whatever it might be. maybe it's someone who runs a business, they want to hire new people, but they're scared about the dynamic of carrying that burden, whatever it is, I think that sense of rejection and perhaps responsibility in a relationship puts people off. But none of this is meant to be easy. No, no. And really, a lot of what's energizing and empowering about relationships is these differences.

7:54I mean, if we were all the same, life would be so boring. And so part of it is trying to develop a mindset in which we sort of recognize, actually, it's a good thing that we all have these differences and that you and I are different enough that we can communicate interesting things to each other because I don't know the next thing you're going to say. Who do I? You're right, right, right. But it's really important not to feel like, well, if we have differences, there's a problem here. That said, some of our relationships are so difficult that we need to step away from them. And I think that's, you know, that's important for us to acknowledge that once we've tried to work things out and there's just no way that it's important to step away, ideally with compassion, with some love, but to step away.

8:47Yeah, because you give the example of marriage in the book that actually leaving a very combative relationship, living within that is extremely stressful. And again, when we look at the physical manifestation of that, very detrimental. And it is actually more, it's a healthier option and more beneficial on a physical level to leave an unhealthy situation like that. As painful as that is, as challenging as that is, and also as hard as it is for, you know, there's going to be a ripple effect there. It's going to affect other people, but it's still better than staying in a combative relationship.

9:21Yes. And it's always a matter of discerning what's right in this relationship. So, first of all, how much is at stake? I mean, sometimes, for example, if there are children in a relationship, in a marriage, then it's much harder to step away. And the threshold for stepping away probably needs to be higher. And there's good therapy that can help couples, many couples, to stay together, to figure out ways to work it out, at least until the children are able to be off on their own. And so on the other hand, there are relationships we really can step away from. And both people can go off and find people who are more compatible.

10:01And that includes friendships, not just romantic partnerships. I think that's so interesting because I think we probably understand the dance between breaking up with a partner sort of more easily than with a friendship. With a friendship, it seems the lines are sort of blurred slightly. With a relationship, you go goodbye. Don't want to see you again. Hopefully bags are packed. Hopefully there's an amicable element. But at the end of the day, you just want to go off in your separate ways. With friends, it's so messy. And there is no phone call of we're over. You don't say it's over. It just either fizzles or there's been a big implosion and then you're no longer friends.

10:39I think that's really hard for people to have. I've certainly been through that myself. It's really messy. Right. But in some ways that's meant to happen. I mean, if you think about it, the people who were your friends when you were seven years old, most of them are not still your friends. And that's okay. Right. And even your friends 15 years ago, most of them probably have moved out of your life. And that's all right. So we do move away because we are constantly changing as human beings. That's natural. And many of us grow apart. That's not necessarily a problem. And so the people we want to keep in our lives, those few people, whether it's the closest friends, family, romantic partners, those are the people who we want to allow to change and ideally even celebrate each other's changes so that we can keep each other in our lives.

11:32But then other relationships, it's okay to let them go. Talking to Bob changed so many things about me. I've made so much more effort to see people that I see infrequently and to really properly lean into those times I have with them. And also it's made me think really differently about arguing. I loved what Bob said there about arguing with a level of respect and affection. So good relationships don't mean we have to always get on with the other person and everything's always sunny and rosy the whole time. I mean, actually, probably quite the opposite. I mean, it's very healthy for us to find differences in our partners, our friends, our family members and to discuss those points.

12:16But like you said, we've always a level of respect and decency because there's that love and affection there that allows us to round off an argument and still really want to be with that person or want to be near them. I found that so interesting. It's really the art of arguing, isn't it? Very, very cool. And yeah, as I said, that one was a game changer for me. And I really think at this time of year, everything that Bob's talking about, either in that episode or his brilliant book, is just super helpful for just how full on Christmas can be, quite frankly. Right, another episode I'd love to dive into is the one with Jay Shetty.

12:54I really, really like Jay a lot. We forged a nice friendship across the ocean over the last few years. And I really enjoy listening to his words of wisdom. We'd spoken a lot over the last few years on voice note and via email, but this was our first time meeting face to face. I way prefer that, by the way. Doing happy place podcast episodes face to face. just makes my day. Like being able to look into someone's eyes and properly connect with them is something else. So Jay and I met up. He had literally flown in from LA, I think that morning. And we talked a lot again about relationships, which I think is really pertinent at this time of year, but also self-love, which is perhaps trickier.

13:38Not many of us have nailed this one. I think most of us are trying, but we often get sort of a bit lost along the way. So I think my own personal relationship with self-love has been undulating to say the least. I've had times where I've really despised myself and I've really found flaws in so many corners of my personality and physical appearance and everything quite frankly and talked to myself in a very negative voice which has really led to me spiraling. It's quite a dark place mentally. I think luckily with age and experience and also having the access to all these amazing people that I'm having chats with on Happy Place, I've been able to cultivate a bit more of a capacity, I guess, to like myself and at times really love myself.

14:30I don't think it feels particularly natural to any of us because look, the world is telling us a lot of the time to not like ourselves very much, whether it's sort of in advertising or gossip or the news or whatever. So if I find that there's a little moment where I think, do you know what, I'm feeling really content and I'm really happy with where I'm at and I'm happy with how I acted on any given day, there is always still a lurking feeling like, oh, I wouldn't get too comfy in that feeling. That's the bit that I want to look at. And so I think there's always room for growth. There's always room to progress.

15:03But it was so interesting talking to Jay Shetty about that and actually how the relationship we have with ourself is of paramount importance when it comes to having relationships with other people. And we don't want it to be the case. We just want to go, oh no, that can't be right. I don't have to like myself first, you know, but it's a jolly good idea if we really can cultivate that sort of self-awareness and that self-love along the way. I think over this festive period, it can trigger a lot of different thoughts and feelings and that could tip us into not feeling very good about ourselves whether it's looking at the whole year that's just gone to try and somehow consolidate it into one thing to then judge ourselves with how well we've done I think most people do that as we creep towards new year certainly but also I think if we do find ourselves any kind of conflict or in the depths of loneliness over the festive period that can really make us question ourselves and who we are and where we're at in our lives.

16:08And really, I'm here, along with Jay Shetty, to tell you and myself to give yourself a break and to be kinder to yourself and gentler with yourself, no matter what's going on. I chatted to the former monk, Jay Shetty, earlier this year, and he had some brilliant thoughts about how we can really lean into self-love. I just think people underestimate themselves. Yeah, we all see our pain as normal. We like, oh, no, that's just what I had to go through. Like, oh, that's just my story. Or, you know, everyone I knew had stuff like that going on at home. And it's like, even if they did, the truth is that you're still here, you're standing here, you got through and you're right, you're not fully healed.

16:51And you're not fully done the work none of us have. But there's a part of you that you have to recognize I can do hard things. I can get through hard times. I have done so much. I think that's one form of self-love. I think the other one is more of what I'd call like the more internal affirmation approach. And I think it's a challenge too. And this is going to sound really challenging to people, but I think we have to do it because we're so quick to criticize ourselves. We're so quick to judge ourselves and we're so quick to compare ourselves. These are three things we do all the time. You wake up in the morning, you criticize yourself in the mirror.

17:25oh wish I didn't look like that you get to work and you judge yourself immediately like oh I'm so stupid I remember I was at I was at Starbucks getting a couple of teas and coffees for my team the other day and the lady at the the desk got her she got the change wrong and she know I didn't even notice it she noticed it herself she was like oh I'm so stupid and I was like no you're not I was like you're busy mornings like 20 people hanging I was like you're fine you're not you're not stupid just for getting um tiny calculation wrong yeah we all do it yeah we do it right so we say these really and we always say really extreme things like oh I'm the worst or you know I just I'm I'm the most messed up of all my friends or whatever it is and I think the problem is sometimes positivity is all about saying the opposite and lying to yourself yeah and I don't agree with that either like I'm not saying wake up in the morning go I look like a million bucks look in the mirror that's you're the best yeah you're the best like I don't think that works and it doesn't make sense and it feels really artificial and it doesn't work.

18:22But I think what's really interesting to me is the middle path, which is like I can learn to love myself. I will learn how to work out more. I can eat healthier, whatever it may be for you. And it's giving yourself that confidence and saying, I've done really hard stuff. I can do this. And if we can think about what it is that we want to do with our body, what we want to do with our mind, what we want to do with our heart. And if we can start with something we do like about those things, if we can start with one thing a day or one thing a week that you're like i like this about my body and it could be forget the aesthetics it could be that my heart's beating it could be that this organ works in a healthy way i mean when i i speak to all sorts of people and when i see people who have so many challenges with certain organs in their life certain parts of their body certain diseases you just go wow like there's such a need to to really be thoughtful and then what do you love about your mind because we're constantly criticizing our mind i'm slow i don't have a good memory i i don't remember stuff.

19:19I don't, I'm not focused enough. I'm too distracted. I procrastinate. I overthink. We say this without even thinking about it. And then a heart, like, what do you like about your heart? Like, what do you, what do you, what do you really appreciate? Is it your grit? Is it your kindness? It's good to notice those things. And I don't mean in a, in a cheesy, cliche, flamboyant, arrogant way. I mean, in just, uh, you're doing the opposite anyway. so why not do the other way? Yep, very wise, very, very wise. Jay reminding us that we are usually our own worst enemy in our brains and we forget that because I think sometimes we feel really judged by other people or worried what other people think but actually we're the ones who are critiquing ourselves so much and it is essentially a bad habit, isn't it?

20:06It's such a bad habit. We're so quick to turn on ourselves and pinpoint our weak spots and look at why we're not deserving of love. And it's a really bad habit. And like Jay said, you know, we can get into a slightly better place with that. You know, whether it is using affirmations or just getting into a better habit of noticing those moments where we're calling ourselves horrible names in our heads and we just go, wait a minute, why am I doing that again? Because also the other thing I've noticed over the years is it's so bloody boring. It's so boring hearing the same thing in your head, like, you're not good at this.

20:41That person's thinking this about you. You're an idiot. It's like, oh God, yawn, boring, so boring. And I'm definitely, if you're up for it, I'm up for it. I'm up for moving into the new year with a bit more kindness and care towards myself. I want to use nicer language. I want to stop the bad habit of berating myself. Because I think the other golden thing here is when we stop judging ourselves so much, we really stop judging other people because you can just see that, you know, everyone's human. Everyone's trying. We're all trying our best. But look, Jay, thank you so much again. I'd love talking to Jay.

21:19That was deeply fascinating. Oh, this is a lovely one. Right. Let's talk about Kesha. So Kesha, the musical icon, came onto Happy Place a few months ago now. Oh, I remember this day so well. I was trying to grow my fringe out. So I was feeling really weird about my fringe. you know and there's like tiny things that are bugging you no one else would have noticed but I was having an internal battle after we've just listened to Jay talking about this berating myself about my half-arsed grown fringe anyway fringe aside this was such an interesting conversation because we ended up talking about confidence coming from both believing in yourself and having wonderful people around you who validate you and who we get you and also though importantly, who push you.

22:07And for Kesha, that particular person was Rick Rubin, a renowned producer whose curiosity in who Kesha really is, has helped her to create this phenomenal new music. And it was actually, it was really emotional. And this is the special thing, isn't it? When she was talking about Rick, really seeing the beauty in her vulnerability, in her pain, in the bits that she wasn't comfortable with, that allowed her to explore them. And it is amazing when we get one really good friend, or it could be a mentor, it could be a relative, it could be an elder, someone in our lives that really spots the beauty in all of us, in the bits that we think really suck, or the bits that we're really scared to show.

22:55And, you know, although it'd be lovely to get to a place of feeling liberated without any exterior intervention. It is a really special thing when someone shines a light on bits of you that you had otherwise wanted to really bury and hide. And I've definitely experienced that myself. And it's just the most beautiful thing when people go, no, no, you don't need to hide that bit of yourself or no, no, it's okay to share that painful story or whatever it might be it's a really beautiful thing and Kesha talks about that in the most amazing way let's have a listen now yeah it was like a very beautiful experience I'm very very very lucky that he wanted to like dive in and work on this with me like it makes me emotional.

23:46I bet. Because it was just like so cool to have. Oh, my God. Get it together. It was just so cool to have somebody not only encourage you to be yourself, but through the process, I think he allowed me to love parts of myself that were imperfect. Yeah. Keep in mind, I'm sleep deprived. But like, it was just amazing to have that. Yeah, well, it's like therapy. If you have a therapist say, what you're telling me about these feelings, your life is okay. That's a huge, a huge thing to happen. And I think bringing music to the equation with that, where you're creating something with the darkness that you feel, the heaviness, whatever it might be.

24:40That's an amazing thing that he, a gift that he gave you. It was. And just someone that like validates and it's like, you're not crazy. I hear you. I see you keep going. And no, we're not putting autotune on your voice. You don't need it. Like, I can't even tell you how many times we had to like, I would beg for autotune. He was like, you don't need it. And then the engineer would be like, you don't need it. And it was like, that kind of blew my mind. it was um about the same time I was like huh maybe I don't have to like wear wigs maybe I could just have my hair like it was a unraveling of all of these illusions and it was really cool yeah that's liberating it's been like a very beautiful process and I hope that that liberation is felt when you listen to the album oh how dreamy how dreamy I think you know hopefully many of us will reach that point whether there's been someone to help us along the way or not or we get to unravel all these layers and we get to really question oh why do I do that and why do I put on an act here and why do I always hide this part of my body or hide this part of my personality and we get curious about it I think curiosity has really saved the day for me a lot over the years and I think you know listening to Kesha speak again there it's been the catalyst for her to be able to just strip back the layers and go oh but why like asking yourself that question why is really really powerful why do I do this why do I feel I always have to do that or hide this part of me or bury this old story it's um you know it's all up for grabs and we can be as liberated as we want to be yes there's always going to be barriers in place and for some more than others, but we can internally get curious and start to really lay everything out on the table and have a good bloody look at it.

26:41And that's been another little reminder for me personally to do that. You know, I've really tried to pick episodes here that have really impacted me and listening to Kesha again, who by the way has like such a good ASMR voice, I could listen to it all day, has just reminded me like, yeah, I can show the sort of weirder idiosyncrasies publicly and I can be just who I want to be without trying to be a bit more or a bit less whatever it's a bloody good reminder I hope you found the same the market's uncertain revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast.

27:29No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today.

27:48So on to something completely and utterly different. This chat was mind-blowing and it's actually since a subject that I have become hungry to learn more about and that is the topic of psychedelics. So I chatted to a brilliant professor, David Nutt. He is a professor of neuropsychopharmacology, which is easy for me to say, Nat. David Nutt, what a guy. He reckons that we're on the cusp of a major revolution in psychiatric medicine and neuroscience. And we talk particularly in this episode about psychedelics like psilocybin, or as you might know them, magic mushrooms. Honestly, I tell everyone I can to listen to this episode because it was absolutely game changing.

28:39And I thought it was really important to have this chat in the happy place space because as much as we love hearing brilliant stories and feeling connection and solace in that we've also I think got a bit of a responsibility to look at solutions because oh my god you know I don't like using words like this but we are in a bit of a mental health crisis and we need solutions and we need new ideas because the old ones aren't working they're not working. So we need new ones. And this isn't even a new idea. It's just a new idea to me. Professor Nutt has been working in this field for decades. He is the leading expert in this territory.

29:22So much of this episode stayed with me. It was really interesting to hear about how many of these natural medicines can change the brain momentarily, but actually have a really long lasting effect on our psychology. So for instance, when we were talking about psilocybin, and he was explaining how the brain activity is so much more connected during a trip. So that's the time when you've taken the psilocybin. And then you have it could be an hour, two, three, four, five, six hours, where you're experiencing lots of different expansive thoughts and feelings and visions, etc. The brain activity is immense.

30:06The whole brain is connected and not only can that be a really eye-opening experience, not that I've done it, I would absolutely love to one day, but it has this long-lasting effect because you're able to often override big, big barriers that have led you to either depression or acute anxiety or even addiction. That one really blew my mind. The addiction story felt pertinent because I've got family members who are in recovery and friends who are in recovery. And I'm very interested in how we can again look for solutions to help break the chain of addiction. And you would think that it's counterintuitive to use something classed as a drug to help beat addiction.

30:52But when you hear Professor David Nutt talk about this, it all makes perfect sense. Let's hear him explain just how game-changing psychedelics can be for those with addictions. Most people who have got alcohol problems go to AA. But most people at AA do not realise that the founder of AA, Bill Wilson, escaped from his alcohol dependence through a psychedelic trip. And he encouraged, and there were some really powerful studies done using LSD in the 1950s and 60s to treat alcoholism. And those results tell us that is the most powerful treatment for alcoholism there's ever been. It's three times more powerful than any modern treatment.

31:36Wow. But the ban, essentially, has denied access to psychedelics for addiction for 50 years. Now, I reckon at least 100 million people in the world have died prematurely from alcohol dependence in that time. And let's suppose psychedelics helped 10%. Well, that's 10 million lives saved. How many lives have been saved by the ban? Well, probably none because the ban doesn't stop recreational use. But let's say it did deter a few people. Say it was 100 or 1 ,000. Even if it was a million, it doesn't matter because the equation is so stacked in favour of therapy that you can see the ban is, as I say, it's the worst censorship of research and clinical practice in the history of certainly the modern world, probably ever.

32:20I mean, let's look at this addiction model because I found that very, very interesting and actually surprising, probably very much due to, you know, this censorship that's in place. Addiction is a huge problem, as we know, costing us about, I think you said£19 billion, which is more than for treating cancer at the moment. And although many would assume, and I was certainly in this camp, that giving addicts drugs is a terrible idea, you've got, again, data and proof to show that it works. And can you explain a bit more how? How does taking psychedelics stop someone from having that compulsion to drink or take drugs excessively?

33:02So we cannot say categorically how they work because the imaging studies and addictions have not yet been done. We're starting them. But we can infer from the depression studies where we have done the imaging work that psychedelics disrupt over learned processes. So let's just say what is an addiction? And addiction is a behavior where people can't stop thinking about a drug or gambling or something else and can't stop using. When they get near to it, they get a great impulsive desire to use. So there's a sort of wanting circuit in the brain which is overactive. And for some people also, particularly for alcohol, because a lot of people use it to deaden pain and deaden anxiety.

33:43There's also a stress circuit. So you've got two circuits which are overactive. Psychedelics disrupt those circuits. and they allow people, often for the first time in decades, to reflect on themselves rather than be continually thinking, where am I going to get the money for the next hit? Where am I going to get money for the next drink? Where is that bottle I hid? In the trip, they've actually escaped from those thought processes. And that has two real functions. The first function is that they realize they can escape because until that point, they've actually not been sure or been able to think differently.

34:19and then having thought differently psychedelics allow you to lay down new thinking patterns it's a process we call neuroplasticity and so if you come up with new ideas hey i shouldn't be drinking to deal with my depression i should be actually getting it treated in another way you can then go out and seek help to develop new behavioral patterns and thought patterns and lay them down more you know more efficiently because of the neuroplasticity yeah god he's fascinating isn't he I could have talked to Professor David Nutt for about a year and I would have still had questions I am so curious about this subject matter and I'm so willing to learn as much as I possibly can I think it's it's an exceptional subject to really learn more about and see you know this could be the future of really helping heal this mental health crisis that we're in.

35:14I really liked Professor David Nutt honing in on neuroplasticity too. Of course, there's other ways that we can create neuroplasticity just from even forming new daily habits as a way to retrain the brain and get new neural pathways laid down. But when we're stuck in bad habits, it feels impossible, but it's really hopeful to know that it is possible. It is totally possible. I urge you to listen to that full episode if that felt like it touched a nerve or it felt like you were very intrigued to learn more about it. It's a really good episode, if I do say so myself. Thank you, Professor Nutt. So now on to, oh, such a wonderful human being, Raina Wynne, who visited my house at the start of the year.

36:04I don't know about you, but for me, this time of year is as much about getting outside for wintry walks as it is about the food and frivolities. I love nothing more than going on a really cold walk, like one where your cheeks are burning with the cold and your nose is streaming. And then after you've had a big walk, you come inside and you have a nice hot chocolate and get your hot water bottle. Oh, that is the best feeling. I am a big advocate of just getting outside if you can for a walk or a run if you can be bothered but just getting outside and getting your eyes off a screen and getting your eyes onto some trees or onto a lovely sky or whatever it might be and feeling the elements we're we've really got to be careful that we're not gravitating too far from the natural world and I think just going hiking or walking is a really great way of getting in amongst it.

37:01I've certainly noticed for me, if I'm in a bit of a funk, going for a walk, it seems like almost too simple, but it does the job. Just getting out and moving, it's sort of weirdly feel like you're physically moving something on as well, which I really like. And it maybe takes away the focus on the mind and brings it back to the body a little bit more as well. Raina Wynne is a long distance walker and a wild camper and has written award-winning books about those experiences. Within days of learning that her husband Moth was terminally ill, the couple had their home taken away from them in a really difficult circumstance and lost their livelihood as a result too.

37:44They appreciated that there were huge parts of this awful situation that they simply couldn't control. But they turned any anger they had into positivity by grabbing hold of the parts of life they did have control over, which is remarkable, quite frankly. Oh, Rainer's books are like a warm hug. I adore them. They picked a path on the Cornish coast and they started walking. It was such betrayal of trust with our friend, but also just anger because the legal system hadn't seen the truth of it so there was so much anger so much bitterness and I think had we not taken that walk that would have come to define us yeah it would have overwhelmed us and that is what we would have become there was something on those headlands something about just being there in the environment taking the next step just climbing the next headland that somehow allowed that to wear away.

38:48In the book, I describe it like having jagged stones in my pocket, but after 200 miles of headlands, it's almost like they've worn down to smooth beach pebbles. And that's how it felt, as if somehow just being there on that incredible strip of wilderness there between the ordinary world and the endless horizon of the sea There was just something like being in another world almost. Was there an element of feeling like you were taking control back? Because you'd been so handed this deck of cards, you're losing your home, all of a sudden the love of your life has this illness, two situations where you feel very out of control.

39:31Did this sort of choice of we're going to do this, we made our own mind up and we're going to do this walk and it's not the conventional thing to do, did that somehow feel safer or grounding because you had some control over it? Yes, absolutely. And it was a complete loss of control because when you lose your house and you have no income, then you have no control. And everything that happens to you is what someone else allows to happen. So all control is gone. You can't decide where you're going to live. You can't decide really what you're going to do because there's no money to do anything. And control and self-will almost dissipates.

40:15And when you've had that your whole life, when that has been your normal life, you know, you drive your life forwards and suddenly you can't do that. The market's uncertain, revenues tied and hiring on hold. That's why High results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today.

41:00where are you where are you in your own life never mind go go wider society and i think i think that walk did give give us that back because we chose to follow the map and we chose to live in that tent but it was our choice and it was almost like i said taking back control and there's something really empowering about that to just say this is my life and I choose how it goes forward yeah and you know like we said you didn't know at the start of this walk this epic walk how it was going to end or if it was going to end early or if you were going to quit or whatever was going to happen but you ended up seeing these improvements in moths health from doing the exact opposite of what you're advised to do so his mood he became more mobile but even sort of more spirited too felt sort of mentally more equipped to deal with it yeah yeah because it um it does have quite a suppressing effect this illness on on on your mental well-being obviously as well as your physical well-being but after we'd walked for quite a few weeks maybe a couple of hundred miles just started to notice his footprints in the dust were just a little more even but he was he was more aware of what we were doing more making choices making decisions to go forwards that he hadn't been doing before and then it all sort of culminated in one night on on a beach we did we arrived at this beach and it was like a perfect perfect late summer summer day and and and the air was really balmy and the sea was like treacle and there were dolphins in the bay and we swam out and it was just a perfect day had we not been homeless and he was dying it would have been perfect um but we put the tent above the high tide mark so we thought but then at three in the morning we weren't above the high tide mark so i opened the tent doors and the tide was coming in it's terrifying yeah it was about a meter away from the tent so we had to jump out of the tent leaving most of our belongings inside and pick the whole thing up still fully erected and run up the beach.

43:18And as we splashed through the water up the beach and dropped the tent down, we just realised what he'd done. From being told, you know, be careful on the stairs, from the point where he'd been struggling to put his coat on without help, he'd just run up the beach, holding a fully erected tent with half our possessions in, above his head. Wow. It felt like a miracle. Oh, God. I just I'll never get tired of hearing that story if you haven't read The Salt Path which is Raina's book that illustrates what that journey was like I urge you to it's a really it's a lovely book to read at this time of year actually it's just phenomenal and as you can hear from what Raina was saying it not only allows us to learn more about resilience hearing their story but also autonomy and how we've all got probably a little bit more power than we think about what decisions we're making in life but also just the incredible nature of walking and what it can do for the body and the mind and also if you listen to the whole episode there is a big chunk on homelessness as well which was a deeply interesting part of that conversation oh Raina I love you also they're making the salt path into a film.

44:34I mean, how amazing is this? Raina has quite frankly turned her whole life around in the most spectacular way and I'm completely and utterly in awe of her and her story. So now on to another phenomenal female, Bronnie Ware. I want to round off 2023 with the chat I had with Bronnie. After years of working in palliative care, she wrote the top five regrets of the dying, which sounds like it could be a bit gloomy, but actually, oh, it is so life affirming because it's an opportunity for us to learn and make the changes we want in our lives now. Oh, this chat was game changing for me. I think like most people out there, I've got deep regrets.

45:19I've got ones that make me feel sick. I've got regrets that keep me up at night. You know, ones that play over and over again in my head. I'd love to have done certain things differently. But I think, first of all, we've got to have acceptance around that. But also, we've got to know it's not too late. We can change our lives today so that we can live life without regret. And that doesn't mean we're going to get it all perfect. It doesn't mean we're never going to mess up again or trip up or whatever. But it does mean we're going to move through life with a bit less tension, I think. That's what I learned from Bronnie.

45:51I've definitely let regret hold me back some of the time as well. And that is something that I would love to rectify. And I think talking to Bronnie gave me sort of full permission to do that. The five regrets that she talks of are all brilliant and deeply important. I think the ones that really stuck out for me were the second regret, which is I wish I hadn't worked so hard. um I love my job I bloody love it I do sometimes place too much importance on achievement and too much of my self-worth can sometimes still lie in the hands of that sort of uh traditional success so I definitely want to look at that I've got fear around not working I've got fear about things going badly.

46:43So sometimes I just don't let myself stop or even look at it because I'm scared. So that's what I'm very aware of. Also, I think the other one that really jumped out at me that I know is a big one for a lot of you lot as well is I wish I'd let myself be happier. Listen to the language of that. I wish I'd let myself be happier. It's not about exterior forces informing whether we can be all happy or not. It's about us giving ourselves permission to be happy. And I'm sure like me, you've had moments where things have been going all right, but you don't let yourself lean into contentment or happiness or even joy because A, you're so scared it's going to go, or B, you think you might be foolish to do so, or you might think you're undeserving of it.

47:31We need to get rid of all of those conditions and really lean into the good times, the happy times, the times of simple contentment where things are just going all right, that is something that I need to think about every damn day. So look, let's hear Bronnie speak some more. After delving into the most common regrets of the dying, I asked Bronnie if she feels it is possible to live life without regrets. Yeah, I do. And I'll tell you why. And it's not because you're not going to make mistakes. So mistakes are how we learn. And that's part of the human experience are mistakes. The only thing that turns a mistake into a regret is our own judgment upon it.

48:17It's really just a matter of perspective. So every regret is a mistake, but every mistake doesn't have to be a regret. And so if we can look back and recognize we've made a mistake, were already wiser than we were in that moment. And whether the mistake was an hour ago or 20 years ago, if we can look back as who we are now with compassion for that younger person and think, wow, okay, they, you know, like there's things I've said and done that I still cringe about, but I look back and I think, dear Bronnie, you know, you darling young woman or you darling child or you, you know, you darling 30-year-old, whatever.

48:55and I just think, okay, well, you did your best as who you were in that moment, on that day with those circumstances and the fact that you can look back and recognise that it's a mistake means I've obviously evolved and so I'd rather look back on that younger part of myself, like I say, whether that was an hour ago or decades ago and have compassion for their humanity and to realise, okay, well, learn by it but be gentle enough on myself to not carry the weight of judgment. It's really only, that's all regrets really are because we've all done stupid stuff. We've all done stuff we wish we hadn't.

49:37There's stuff we've probably never tell people where we think, oh, you know, and we just, like I say, I cringe when I think of some of the things I've said and all the men I've shared my body with when I was younger and not treated myself with self-respect and stuff like that. And I cringe with some of it. But then I look back and think, you darling broken person, you're just human, you're just like everyone else. And that actually stops me now from allowing mistakes to become regrets because I can say sorry to my daughter. You know, we say sorry and I tell her no one's perfect. I'm an imperfect human like everyone else.

50:16I'm going to make mistakes, but I'm going to say sorry, you know, if I can recognize it in that time. And so, yeah, I think it is possible, Fern, to not have regrets. It's not possible to go through life without mistakes. Yeah. But it's certainly, certainly possible to not have regrets. Well, this is it. It's not about living life perfectly. So you get to the end and go, I did life perfect. Bye-bye. This is about getting there and, like you say, having the self-compassion to notice where we might have gone a bit off-piste and we can forgive ourselves and know that we did our best at any given time.

50:49Yep. And then, you know, then we can just love that we were present enough to do our best. Yeah. Oh, yes, Bronnie. I mean, I'm on my feet. I'm cheering. I'm whooping. This is it. We don't have to live life perfectly to live life without regrets. It's being able to look back at those cringy moments, the big moments that felt disastrous with compassion and love. and to see actually that we've grown and that we've gained resilience and empathy and perhaps an expansive mindset because of the things that felt tricky or challenging. Oh, I think we all needed to hear that, didn't we? I certainly did.

51:29As we round off one year and move into another, you don't need to look back on 2023 and pinpoint all the mistakes you made and berate yourself for it. You don't need to look back on this year and calculate how many regrets that you have or mishaps took place. Look back at the year and see that there was light and shade. There were good bits, there were bad bits, there were challenging bits, there were cringy bits and it's all okay. I'm saying this for myself as much as I am for you. We need to give ourselves a break and move past this year without too much regret into a new year knowing that we've got compassion and love for ourselves for the good bits and the tougher bits too.

52:14Oh Bronnie you are simply amazing. Look you lovely lot thank you so much for being here with me for another year of happy place chat. It feels like an absolute privilege and an honour to do this every week and not only have these conversations and have the opportunity to learn myself but to really share that with you And I just love hearing from you as well, you know, hearing your responses to each episode and your feelings around each episode. I'd really like to know which episodes have stayed with you from this year. It doesn't have to be the ones that I chose in this particular episode, but which ones from 2023 really touched you?

52:55Head over to Happy Place Official, as I'd love to hear. Normal service resumes next week. But in the meantime, the biggest thank you again to everyone who's come on the show this year and made Happy Place so very special. A huge thank you to the producer Anushka Tate at Rethink Audio, who has worked so hard this year, had a huge knee operation and managed to keep on working and showing us all resilience and strength. It's been absolutely wonderful. And a massive thank you to you lot. Honestly, I couldn't do it without you because it would be pointless. So thank you for showing up each week to listen to these conversations.

53:36I promise there's going to be even more absolute corkers for you in 2024. I hope you have a gorgeous festive period, whatever it looks like for you. If you are feeling lonely, reach out to someone. There's always someone there. There's always someone there. And I'll catch you beauties in the new year. See you then and Merry Christmas. Thank you.