Book Club Meets: Homelessness and addiction, with Lorna Tucker

0:00I have lived in Watford. Welcome to the Happy Place Book Club with me, Fern Cotton. I have lived on many streets and many pitches, deep in the shadows, within the stinking and filthy parts of slavery in London. Today, Bear by Lorna Tucker. I have lived in hostels as a single mum. I have lived all over London and many cities around the world. I have lived with almost every boyfriend I have ever had. I have lived with and without a daughter. I have lived with an abuser. Then I finally lived with a man who looked after me when I had two more children. Now I live alone with all of my children. The only thing I can tell you today is that I, Lorna Tucker, have lived.

0:45I am an addict. This is something that I must always remember, remind myself of each morning when I wake up. There is a history of addiction that runs through my blood. the insanity of how the mind works when you're gripped by this this what i can only describe as a disease is madness and chaos nothing really makes sense but when you're living it whatever drug you choose becomes all that matters it comes before absolutely everything but you don't realize it's taking over because that devil on your shoulder is very convincing and tells you that everything is justifiable. I don't use that iPod anymore.

1:28I might as well sell it. We never watch TV. I should sell it as it's just sitting there. My daughter never wears these shoes anyway. I'm ashamed of so much. The shame I carry from my past. There is so much that has held me back from living for so long. I don't want to be ashamed anymore. This is my story. all the truth I can remember nothing but the truth please don't judge me God but I don't believe in you anyway. Bear is the absolutely vital but I'll be honest with you guys agonizing true story of Lorna's fight to survive living on the streets of London she had to lie steal strip and just about everything in between.

2:18As I say, it's a painful read at times, but it's a really important portrait of female homelessness, and I loved reading it. You've been reading along with us and joining in on the chat on Instagram, which I love, at Happy Place Book Club, which is obviously the best part of Book Club, having a big old natter about it. Amy says she thoroughly enjoyed this book. It's such an important read that centres around an issue that we should all be more aware of. thank you so much for telling your story Lorna. Jen agrees that it's an incredibly powerful book I've never read anything like it before I felt wiser and more educated from this read I'm forever changed to be honest god how amazing is that what beautiful little summary thanks babe and Talitha this is gorgeous from you she says I definitely resonate with this book I also fell into homelessness as a child so I have a lot of understanding and empathy and I find I'm less judgmental of others in similar situations.

3:11That's actually something that Lorna and I got onto in this chat because she's been seeing the crisis of hidden homelessness rise in kids in particular and is really keen to introduce empathy back into the story of homelessness, addiction and violence. Lorna is now a completely brilliant filmmaker. Her first feature film was a documentary about Vivian Westwood which she talks about in this chat. We also get into how our insecurities might manifest physically, like mumbling or covering your mouth. It's really interesting stuff. And chance as well. Those five minutes that might seem insignificant at the time, but that send your life in a completely different direction.

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6:34Okay, here we go. This is the show.

6:58Hello Lorna. Hey Fern, lovely to meet you. So nice to meet you. First of all congratulations on your book Bear which is our Happy Place book club pick for April. This is an incredibly raw and honest emotive at times confronting book. I couldn't put it down but I'm imagining for you it was hard work to write that book. It's you know you're you're bearing your soul, you're telling your story what what was that process like for you yeah it's an interesting one because I think if it was a fiction I'd be shouting about it I would be you know promoting it and I think that's been the hardest thing over the last few weeks first of all people writing going I love your book it's really changed me you know you're an inspiration and I'm like no I'm not I cry every morning I'm the messiest person in the world and I what do you say to that because it's just your life it's not some incredible piece of genius work that I've come up with so there's that it coming out is quite a strange thing to handle but the process of it was more different to anything I've ever done you know my job is to stare out of a window all day and then come up with ideas and get so overly excited I'm like a kid and then you kind of believe in something and you turn it around and then and then you put it out there whereas with this it was spending my mornings ruminating over my past and trying to remember why I was doing it yeah you know it's something that um I'd had offers quite a bit over the years and the only reason I took this one is because it was the right mix of an incredible publisher the editor that you know was so inspiring in her own way and and kind of held me and and allowed me to kind of tell the story in the way that I wanted which was very much trying to set it today looking back and taking someone by my side on this journey so instead of preaching to people or going you know this is what's you know what my life was or this is what happened I'm like well why didn't I show you and you can you can come with me and then maybe you'll be a bit kinder when you go out into the world afterwards and but then to get that balance of also trying to not make it too dark so the process was hard because I was sitting there going every morning trying to remember and I think my whole life I've tried to forget so it last year was just such a strange time for me because I'd done a documentary as a response to the governmental cuts into the spending and mental health addiction and everything and that was kind kind of having to again confront my past and then to go and do a book where you're actually reliving your own story it just it was difficult but there was something really healing in it because in the last three years I've seen the numbers of kids on the streets rise I've seen this crisis of hidden homelessness of kids staying on sofas sofa surfing nowhere to live I've seen kids getting into gangs and I know where that comes from I know where that anger comes from I I know where the violence comes from.

10:10I know why kids carry knives. And in my career now and in this sphere I operate in now, I hear the other side of people going, you know, kids' guns. And, oh, my God, society's fucked. It wasn't like that in my day. And these kids, they should be locked away. And I'm like, oh, my God, why are these kids angry? Why are kids killing each other? Why are they stealing? Why are they getting onto drugs? You know, they were babies. They were children once. And I'm not excusing behavior. And there are sadly people that are so disturbed. They need therapeutic help. They need to be somewhere safe to help them.

10:46But I think this last few years, hearing that and seeing this kind of divide build up, it was that's the thing that kept me going. So I've gone on a complete rant of like every morning I was like, you know what, I can't do this. I don't want to touch this. I've got kids now. I've got my life back. You know, I have struggled with addiction for 25 years and everything's going great. And I've got all these film projects and my life's perfect. Why am I now sitting down at five o 'clock every morning before I go to work to do something else, another project and pulling up and trying to piece together my life?

11:22And then you'd open the newspaper or I'd overhear a conversation or I'd speak to a kid that was, you know, high on a street corner. And it was like, no, I need to do this because there's so little understanding and so little empathy. But it was the hardest thing I've ever done, because like I said, from the moment I first came out of rehab, which wasn't even a rehab, it was a children's ward or a hospital because I was too young for rehab and I was in a private room. from that moment to you know westward coming out I'd hidden my past and I kept running and I never kept a friendship group and I was always lying and hiding and trying to fit in and never quite fitting in and uh and then to sit down at a point in my life where I'm like I don't want to fit in I'm just me this is my past now everyone knows it's like there's nothing to hide from anymore they either like me or don't but still kind of keeping it to one side and yeah this last year has been an incredibly uh raw process that also has led to so much freedom in a way and also oh my god I've claimed back my own narrative because I think the press you do and you'll know this you do so many interviews for my Greta Garbo film or for this film or that film and I spend the whole time talking to this journalist about the artistry into what I do and then it comes out and they've just grabbed headlines from other things and it's like ex-heroine addict you know prostitute drug addict and you're like I didn't even talk about my past I talked about my film so I feel like this was my final kind of say and doing it for a reason with hopefully a positive message but also now it's like any press I do it's like now you can buy the book yeah well that's your chance to have it in your words verbatim no one can take it out of context that's your your story told I mean it's brilliant that you've got that extra layer of motivation that you know you're you're meeting kids who are living on the street or you're hearing this judgment that still exists and the stigma around it that you want to change and that's motivating obviously but there is also like you say the the hard graft at 5am sitting there and facing your past you know let alone typing it out eloquently but it's something when you've been through tricky things in life it is very hard to revisit those times and not re-traumatize yourself again and again I mean there's a line towards the end of the book where you say that your past is close enough to remember but far enough away not to touch it how do you think you've got to that place have you managed to it might not be land on peace with your past but get to a place of a level of acceptance to be able to actually write this book in the first place?

14:05I think to be really honest and to hopefully make other people feel better about their lives who have been through any kind of trauma, addiction or mental health struggles, it's a day to day. When I wrote that line, I felt in touch with my past and I felt like I'd gone through this healing journey. But, you know, last week as the book was coming up and you're doing press every day, I would come home and go like, I'm still full of desire to use or I feel like I'm going mad or I should be doing better with my life and oh I hate my hair and why am I doing you know and you project onto everything else there's nothing wrong with my hair there's nothing wrong with the way I look there's nothing wrong with my career there's nothing wrong you know I'm not a terrible mother because I work you know like I spiral and I spiral and I start kicking out on everything I think the only thing that's different now is I've been through this cycle so many times I'm getting better it doesn't happen instantly it's like two days of self-hating and then you're like who gives a frick about what my hair looks like who cares you know what it's not about that it's because I'm actually really scared I'm really scared someone's gonna say your book's rubbish which means you know or this is terribly written or because I'm so insecure and I tell everyone I'm insecure because I want everyone who feels insecure to not think I'm an amazing person because you get so many people going oh you're so amazing you're an inspiration you're so strong I'm like no we're all the same we're all fragile we're all broken and and not every day is easy and I feel such a responsibility to talk about that side of things because it's very easy for when you're on the outside to think somebody's life is a very certain way and it's just catching yourself quicker and I think I'm getting a little bit better at it um I'm sorry I went off on a complete tangent I don't know it's so relevant though because I think you know what you talked about there is what so many of us feel where we do start to spiral and we start to pick ourselves apart so that other people don't get their first you know I've done it a million times where I've thought I'm going to be really bloody awful to myself because anything anyone else says I've already said it and you know and I'm in a similar place where I can do that a bit quicker now and also I'm a bit bored of going into that cycle of oh god I can't do this again it's so boring I don't want to do it let's just fast track this bit it's a fucking bore and it's you know maybe that comes with age as well and experience but it's so great when you have the awareness that you know you can speed that cycle up and I think especially when you're talking about such delicate matters and things that not only are massively real to you and things that you're still working through but will hit other people for so many reasons.

16:47I mean, I found so much of it triggering in the best possible way because, you know, it's confronting stuff that you're writing about. And we need to hear about female homelessness because we don't hear about it enough, teen homelessness. And also what you've done so brilliantly is so clearly show the extremely thin veneer between having a quote unquote regular life to then losing everything. And, you know, I grew up in a really similar area to you. I was down the road in Eastcote, Ryslip. I used to go out in Watford all the time, Northwest London crew. And, you know, I hung out with the wrong crowd a lot and I got in with the wrong people a lot.

17:26And, you know, there were times where you could see you could have, you know, I could have gone off on a tangent that wasn't best for me. And I was really lucky that along the way I met. You could have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Five minutes. State your life. Completely. And that's why I think when I was reading it, I was like, fuck like this is so close to home and feels so very very raw and real in in the best way and I think it made me extremely grateful for the positive people that came into my life and and ways that I was steered but I felt it so viscerally that I could have so easily gone down and you know we all could we're all moments away from from you know whatever we don't know what's going to happen next in life but I think it was very very brilliant and brave of you to explain that process of how your life unraveled and how you ended up homeless and how you know even meeting Tony a lady that you talk about in the book who was using heroin and that led to your own heroin addiction these little moments of chance of fate that lead you down a completely different path I think that's the crazy thing about reading your story is that becomes extremely real for for any reader and also the chance that I'm alive because so many people are not and you know what you just said is is exactly why I wanted to write the book because I don't know one person and this god there's so much you've just talked about but first of all it's like age when we're talking about our spiraling and that's why I think I feel such a responsibility to always be honest in the book or in interviews or when I'm talking to and all I do talks even though my insecurities like you sound like an idiot why are you telling everyone your fucking soul why are you telling everyone you're insecure and it's like because you want younger people to know it does get easier you know and it's like it crippled me from my you know I used to talk with a mumble because I had really bad teeth and because I was really insecure I didn't know big words I couldn't read and write properly and it was Vivian that was just like take your hand away sort your teeth out talk up I can't hear you what are you saying and I thought I thought she hated me at the time but then within two years of filming her people would be like oh my god you're you're talking you're you know and it's this thing isn't it so it's like we we expose ourselves and we try and be honest even sometimes if i'm like oh god i got verbal diarrhea why don't i just shut up because it's like there is something beautiful about age you know i woke up when i was 40 and i was like oh i just don't care what men think about me anymore um and just like i just want to have fun i just want to go out again with my mates i I just want to feel good.

20:04But also it's like, as you said, we've been around in this cycle long enough to know that if we can keep walking at our darkest times or when we're feeling at our worst, the light does come out again. We do start to feel better. So, you know, I've lost a lot of friends to suicide and addiction. And that's why when I see young kids, I can just sniff it when I see someone is in a funny place. And, you know, I'm like, hey, come with me. let's have a chat because you know what it gets better and I think part of my language you know I was so stunted from competence for so long so storytelling is my medium whether I'm making a big glossy film like on Greta Garbo with a Hollywood actress or I'm making a documentary about homelessness it's like let me tell you a story here's a big fancy story with puppets and an actress and I'm gonna tell you something but it's really about insecurity the pressure we're put on women like why are we doing what we're doing is this end result going to bring up you know so there's always this this thing of like how can I get through to people to tell them that life will be okay if we can just keep going and sometimes it's not okay and that's okay and and I've gone off on another um thing but chance as well you know there were kids on the streets that I knew that had come from a lot of money there's someone I knew that was on the streets that had even come you know they were titled and the reason they ended up on the streets because they went out to a rave for one night with their friends and she saw a boy she was 16 and he was fit and he had tattoos and she was like oh my god he's dangerous my parents are gonna hate him I love him yeah and she started dating him and he he had a drug problem you know and she just loved him and wanted to be cool and within six months she was a heroin addict she ran away from home because he was in trouble with the police.

21:54So she slept on the street so she could be with him. He was arrested one night. Something happened to her. That was her life destroyed. You know, so this isn't just, yes, I'm quite, sadly, very, very textbook. You can meet me. But it's also, I knew women who were in their 50s that were doctors that ended up on the streets because they had, their husband left them and they had a breakdown. And that led to them losing everything. And it's that spiral. but then also the death you know people getting clean and then something happening or a memory trigger and they just have one hit to take the pain away and that was the overdose and they died you know it's like the fragility of our us as humans anyway in life but in those situations it's amplified and when you have people living on the fringe of society that are very vulnerable there's always people out there that are seeking out the vulnerable for their own gain so it's you know this is again why I chose to tell the story I was like how can I tell a story that's not like too depressing too dark it's not like a journal of homelessness it's like how can I tell a story of as if I'm telling a film but with but having to relive everything and see myself and take them with me because we're you know the world is fucking crazy right now like yeah everywhere around the world you know we're fearful of war poverty you know everything is crumbling but also we know we've been here before and we can come out of it so what helps society while artists coming together us using our voice in any way we can putting it into our art people resistance activism and I'm a storyteller so it was like well I can't change the world I wish I could but if we can just focus on the one thing we know something about and we can do it in a way that's not preachy and isn't like I'm gonna stand on my soapbox but truly using our art to to pass on a message then we've kind of done what we can I keep ranting yeah no this is what I need to hear because I think you know the one thing that you have absolutely changed and will continue to is people's perception of homelessness if you've you know if you've not got a broad understanding of it or you're not necessarily compassionate or empathetic towards people that are living on the streets or a hidden homeless people then um I think what you've done is is articulate this story that allows you to see that fragility and allows you to see that this could quite literally happen to anyone and when you walk past someone on the street you can't have that judgment you don't know what their background is you don't know why they've ended up there you don't know anything about them they're human beings and I think again you know looking at how you're using your art in a plethora of ways with this book specifically it's storytelling to connect us all we're all human we're all human there's no there's no hierarchy we're just all humans wandering around trying our best and there's good luck and there's bad luck and there's good opportunity and bad opportunity and you know it's and we could have good opportunities and then everything could fall apart you could go back yes but you can keep going and you can find your way yeah that like walking and like you said storytelling and and elevating but it's there's definitely um I think for me as well it's like trying to give people that are suffering language because you know I think the thing that the reason I didn't tell anyone that I'd been homeless or I was a drug addict and everyone knew I was I couldn't keep clean and I'd get a year and I you know and I'd get some opportunities because I'm a grafter and I'd start working my way up but then something would trigger me and I'd relapse and people like oh she's just a junkie why can't you sort your life out you've lost custody of your daughter is that not enough why are you fucking everything up for yourself so people just thought I was this crazy rock and roll junkie that you just you know and basically I didn't I could I was living in hostels but I've been scouted to model how weird's that and I would go and do castings but nobody knew that I was living in a hostel as a single parent so everyone's like let's come back to yours I was like oh no I can't you know I'm doing this thing doing that thing and crashing on sofas and it was shame and that almost led me to relapse in the end anyway and I think if kids are sleeping on sofas and they're not telling people and they feel ashamed or someone is having a breakdown because they're having a mental health crisis and they can't talk about it because they feel shame if you have struggling with addiction the shame you know and I just think if we can remove that layer of people and go but look you know there is a way out and it's about you know if I do talks I always wear a suit or I always dress up and it will try to and get it drastically wrong a lot of the times because I feel responsibility because I'm like I want a kid that's in a really difficult situation like if I was 14 and I was sitting on that street corner and I saw someone dressed up with a smile on their face and they sat down next to me and they were like you're right kidder I was where you are and I got out and I know you don't feel like you can get out but let me tell you I would have listened to me if I had a preachy drudgy person going do you want a sandwich you know can I do or telling me things or just or feeling sorry or pitying that wouldn't have inspired me to make change so it's this thing of like you know I just want to walk around in holy leggings and you know looking at a mess but you do you feel that thing of like okay but today I'm talking about this and today if anyone's listening or anyone sees me I want them to be like there is something for me I wish I was like that because I know yeah like as a kid you would have looked up yeah you know if you think of you at 14 looking at you now you'd have been like she's so fucking cool like I want to be like that and so it's like well you can be like that but come on you know you're gonna have to get me halfway way.

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28:56Apparently, I know what funny is. Funny bought me a house, but I also know what isn't funny. OCD. I've lived with OCD my entire life, and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented, unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for OCD, it can actually make things worse. That's why I want to tell you about NoCD. NoCD is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans.

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30:20What's so interesting as well, like hearing you talk about the stuff that you were so keen to not only run from, but hide about yourself. And, you know, I've certainly done the same with certain bits in my past. They strangely end up being the parts of you that allow you to connect so much more deeply with other people. and actually the parts of you that people end up liking the most because you've got a story and you're fucking interesting and you've lived a life and and you know pain and you know suffering and as most people do and and that's where you end up connecting with people it's so weird that we desperately try and hide those bits of ourselves and go no no you mustn't see that bit just see the shiny bit or the bit that I know I can the performative element I can dress like you I can be like you but why am I not like yeah and and you know you hit the nail on the head because I remember you know the reason I first spoke about my story is when Westwood was premiering at Sundance we caught wind that a red top newspaper was going to publish a photo and they'd found out about my past and all of a sudden it was like my career's over everyone's going to hate me like what the fuck this is why and then you're like oh this is why I self-sabotaged all these times all these years and it's like that fear of and I just remember having the kindest woman Kate Lee just was just like no we'll get the Guardian to want to it first you know and in your voice and I'd never done press before I'm behind the camera you know I don't want to talk about these things and I just remember the response was exactly not what I expected you know it was not only mothers of children that were struggling and everything like that but so many people from my past reached out and they were like I want to fucking hug you why did you not tell me like we loved you we just didn't want to see you destroy yourself all the time and if we'd known we'd have been able to support you better and it wasn't what I expected and people in the industry were just like proud of you and it was so it was a fear for like 20 years of fear and hiding and people were like no we really thank you and it's funny isn't it it's like we always think things are going to be worse than they are and even if they're bad they're never as bad as you think they are so it's like the thing that prolongs you healing or or moving forwards in your life are generally the unknown or how you expect people will react which is never true because even think about your life the toughest things you've had to move from even when they've been hard and they've hurt they've never actually you're still here they're never bad as you thought they were and even when they are bad it goes you know and it's yeah move on so it it taught me so much about that kind of like just confronting and now I'm just like got no filter every like my truth is like in the moment yes sometimes people are like that's the best way to be hiding anything anymore it's all no no no we haven't got time for bullshit we haven't got time for bullshit we're just we're saying it having a really really delicate day today I'm going to answer in a really brutal way if you keep on cc-ing me into these emails take me off for 20 minutes yeah yeah yeah and they're like yes I love it look we've got no time we're we're women who've got stories to tell and you know we're moving forward I'm here for it I love it there was one line at the end of the book which again I just loved and I think many people will resonate with this line and desperately want to be living it you say well it's actually a something you're saying to your husband um towards the end of the book you say that you spent the first chapters of your life running and the next chapters you want to spend dancing do you feel like you are dancing or is there a bit of oscillation between there are days when you're still on the run a bit and then there are days where you can have that sense of freedom and feel like you're gliding through the day slightly more exactly as you said it you know it's like as you said it's not a fairy tale like you know I had this pain messed up a lot and now it's like I wake up every morning and it's like rise and shine what it is is that you know some days are better than others some days I find it really difficult to get out of bed but I found something that helps me live which is creation which is art which me and you can go into a whole other situation of my next thing that I want to focus on is art being taken out schools and the funding taken out teachers and look at most of us were saved through art right and yes you take that out society and we're going to be really screwed so that's next year's mission but um good I'm I'll help you I'm there like I'm part of the alliance I'm there we've got to do this but um yeah but you know the truth is is like art set me free and write if I couldn't didn't learn to write and if I didn't teach myself storytelling and have incredible people around me to to teach me and support me and love me I think I I don't even know if I'd be here so even when I'm feeling my worst I know that I have to drag myself to sit at my desk at five every morning and some days I write one sentence before I went to New York last week I had two days in a spin pulled all my cupboards out freaking organized everything in alphabetical order tidied my kitchen decided to wax my floor I had a deadline for 5 p.m something I hadn't even started and then I wrote one line of dialogue in this new script commission was like sure hand it over that was my day sure yes over and I was like on the phone to my husband going I've written one line of dialogue and he's like but I bet the kitchen cupboards are tidy I was like yeah I've done this so many times so many times and he's like but I but even that I'm like oh part of my process is I'm not a robot I don't write you don't you know I don't sit at desk and I write for five hours every day I might spend write everything in one day but to get to that point I have to cry hate myself really yes all this kind of stuff and I only learned that last week that this is okay this is my process and stop putting pressure on myself I shouldn't have done everything by today it will all happen when I'm walking down the street scratching my bum next week I'd had to tidy the house repaint the living room do all this stuff manically in order to get to the moment where I could walk down the shops and then the idea comes and it's yes there's there's this different thing and the dancing side of it is that I every morning I am so lucky to be alive and we are all lucky to be alive and it's like every time and it's going back to what we first started talking about is that I spiral I'm full of dread I'm I'm full of insecurity but then I catch myself now because I've learned to just meditate a little bit I'm very hyperactive find it very hard to meditate but I've I'm the same pause sometimes before I go absolutely mental and just take a bit of reflection and my reflection is always oh my god how lucky am I oh my like you know I am so lucky I'm if you told me five years ago when I was I'd spent 19 years trying to make films that I'd have a film premiere at Sundance and then in four years make seven films and and be able to learn you know write a book that hopefully will really start a conversation or just make people be kinder to one another like if I you'd have told me that I would have been like well that's my dream like if if I can just do one of those things I'll be so happy so I have to remind myself you know it came to me later in life but now it's like okay I'm here I've got a lot of catching up to do I've got a lot of ideas and I've found you know I've got a massive caffeine addiction so I'm like let's go let's go let's like cause chaos in my house yes but I'll get there in the end and that's yeah I mean I I needed to hear that today because I'm writing something at the moment and I'm really bloody tired today and I just I don't feel clear-headed to write I I was just a bit all over the ship I I was sort of doing laundry this morning and I was just like, I can't even open my laptop.

38:39And I can really give myself a hard time. Like, well, you've just wasted a whole day. You've got a deadline in June and you've done absolutely fuck all. And actually what we're trying to do is force this free-flowing creativity into this weird industrial revolution working week. And we're like... Creation system. Every kid needs to be able to sit down and focus for five hours and they all need to be at this education. level at this point of day at this time and we are so structured I think because of the education to be like that and it's that thing of like actually if you do your washing and your laundry because I'm the same if I have to travel to do a talk I'm like I've missed 24 hours I should be writing and I haven't got any work done because I've been bloody traveling and you're like just just chill out it's okay yeah actually you need to do your drawing you need to stare at your kids brain dead because you're tired you need to not be able to open your laptop because your today's your day to just settle and then yeah or it might not even be tomorrow it might be next week it will come and it's like yeah it's frustrating isn't it and like I said this is something I've only learned this week yeah I'm like 43 I'm like yeah we're learning every day and it's a constant learning but it's like it's okay you know and actually how what I wonder if we were ever in the Harlequin centre in Watford on the same Saturday.

40:01You know what I would love to do a film not now later on in my life a black and white film and it's about these angels watching and trying to put people together because I say that with my husband we were friends for 15 years before we got together but we found out like his mum had her purse pickpocketed in lily whites I was arrested for pickpocketing in lily whites around the same time and we were like there was like these people trying to put us together yeah yeah yeah same thing it's like you know we would have been around the same same age causing mischief like in the same area and there would have been like if you'd if we could rewind time we're probably in the same nightclub causing i know in destinies in watford oh my god and then walking down the high street and she's too big for you oh my god we but we so kiddo this is freaking me out I've got some hilarious pictures when I'm I mean when I got off the streets and I had no self-confidence and I was really just trying to be like everyone else and you know it was like footballers wives was all the fashion so everyone had tan and the nails and I remember just bright orange like I've got really pale skin I've got a bit of color at the moment this is me with color because I've been around in the sunshine but I mean like bright orange skin like the you know the darker lip liner oh the dark lip line a silver top from mark was it mark one mark one yeah yeah and a silver mini skirt and a belly button yeah and high shoes I couldn't walk in and I mean my kids just saw it and they're like what the hell was going on I was I remember thinking, I look so cool.

41:51Oh, yeah, we were the bee's knees. That dark, that brown lip liner with the heather shimmer lipstick, that was chef kiss, absolutely dreamy. It was so bad it's come back round again, hasn't it? It has. Oh, my God. I know I'm looking at, like, my stepkids and I'm like, wow, okay, this is what we're doing. It's unbelievable. But, yeah, I'm pretty sure we were in either the Harlequin Centre or Barisa at some point at the same time, which is wild, wild. but look I just I can't express with words how much I loved this book and how important I feel it is as many people will and do and we just can't wait to talk about it on our book club and get people chatting about it and talking about all of these issues that that really need dissecting and you've you know you've told your story so beautifully and and I'm sure it's not easy to keep talking about the same thing over and over again when it's you know so personal and so deep but I massively appreciate you talking to us today and just wish you all the luck with the book and all these other brilliant projects and saving art which I'm here for.

42:53Yes we're going to do that that's the next one. Yes. Thanks for your support though and thanks for helping get the message out there. Do you know what I haven't stopped thinking about that chat with Lorna I think she's one of the most incredible people I've ever talked to I love how completely open and honest she is with her story and that she's willing to talk about things that are so difficult so that she can educate us give us a completely different perspective on homelessness but also tell us all that there is so much opportunity in life to make great changes and walk down a completely different path Lorna thank you so much so look we're in May now god we're in May um do you want a juicy summer read recommendation because that's what you're getting this month in happy place book club.

43:41This month we're going to read Great Big Beautiful Life by Emily Henry. I love this book. So two writers are competing for the chance to tell the larger than life story of a famous reclusive heiress. One of them is going to uncover the truth behind one of the most scandalous families of the 20th century. The thing is heiress Margaret is giving each writer different tantalising little pieces of her story. I loved reading this book. I read it over Easter on holiday. I loved it if you want to read along with us you can join the chat on instagram at happy place book club and i really hope to see you there all right for now a massive thank you again to lorna to the producer anushka tate at happy place studios and to you you bloody gorgeous

44:59We'll see you next time.

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