Boy George: “I love fame!” Star signs, sexuality, and writing songs with ChatGPT

0:01Boy George: Hello, a massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fearne Cotton. This is the show that encourages self-expression and reinvention. Today, I'm chatting to Boy George.

0:12Fearne Cotton: Community, that word is a dangerous word because it's like a fence that we put around groups of people. The gays, the trans, the this, the that, and it kind of limits us to a perimeter. I live in a gay bubble. I've got loads of gay friends. I've got loads of straight friends. I've got a straight family. My life doesn't revolve around my sexuality, do you understand? So I just feel like, what are you talking about? Which is, for me, the thing that I get the most upset about when anybody tries to trample on someone else's existence for any reason. Because I think we've all got to just be respectful and share this beautiful space with each other.

0:47Boy George: So everyone, how are you today? Do you know what? I want to dispense some regurgitated advice from one of my best mates, Claire. Claire is like she, you know, we've all hopefully got one of those mates who is the soundboard and like the honest person who always says not the right thing, but the thing you need to hear. And last week she said that the most simple advice is nothing that, you know, any of you won't have heard before. But she said to me, we don't give up. And it just stuck with me. It was like the end of a conversation we had on the phone. She's like, we don't give up. And it wasn't said in a way where we've got to, I don't know, drag ourselves through anything without any level of self-compassion or having a breather or allowing yourself to slightly fall apart and be vulnerable.

1:33Boy George: I think actually it's the opposite. It's really allowing yourself to fall apart and kind of just go, do you know what, I'm done, I can't do this anymore. And then going, and now I'm going to pick myself back up. and in those times when you're having a shit one obviously you a part of you wants your mate to go babe everything is awful you know you should feel like shit you know you absolutely fall apart never get out of bed and you want someone to validate all of it but actually what I needed was someone to go we don't give up and it gave me this sort of absurd amount of mental strength on that particular day to go yeah I don't give up and actually I've got proof that I don't give up I can look back and think right when I've been through you know tough times before or challenging moments I have picked myself back up and I've got on with it and it is possible and I think all of us forget that when we're having either a really tricky time or just I'm not even talking about extreme stuff just those days where everything's really overwhelming and you've got a massive to-do list you're chasing your tail you know if you've got a family you're dealing with constant stuff with the kids and the home and it's just sort of feels relentless but we don't give up we we carry on we crack on we're so much stronger than we care to believe or remember quite frankly so if you're having a crap one or you're feeling low energy or you just want to fall apart then you know by all means do what feels right to you but know deep down that we don't give up we don't we crack on we pick ourselves back up but we don't give up I should get that tattoo shouldn't I I mean I've got too many tattoos but if I get another one um so let's talk about today this chat felt like a cool one to have boy George was part of the new romantic movement that emerged in the late 70s and early 80s and he was the front man of course of culture club he became a DJ in the 90s and he's currently writing a new musical called taboo based on one that he did a long time ago he's really just been such a cultural trailblazer and someone who's completely unafraid to try new things and change his mind and reinvent himself oh my god we got deep immediately I mean you join this chat literally halfway through boy George talks about the three principles which is something that he's very into he'll explain what they are and why it's important to him to live by these principles as we go along and I probably should subtly warn you that I mean it's a chaotic chat.

4:05Boy George: This chat is different every week depending on the guest and this one is just sort of like bouncing off the walls chaotic but we're here for it. We're so here for it.

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7:42Boy George: to this chat in just a moment but let me tell you something really exciting first we've now announced our first wave of guests for the happy place festivals this year we have got some incredible people you've got to come you've got to come along we've got ruby wax coming down to the happy place festivals tom reed wilson which i am so thrilled about i want to look into those big eyelashed eyes and hear him whisper sweet nothings to me. We've also got Donna Ashworth, who is just part of the Happy Place family now, quite frankly. Matt Haig, the legend that is, and so many more. You can get your tickets on the Happy Place website now.

8:20Boy George: Right, to boy George then, or as Amelia calls him, Joy Borge. There was no real beginning to this chat at all, so you join us nattering about star signs naturally. Here's the show.

8:53Fearne Cotton: Yeah, no, I love, as you can see, I'm very into star signs.

8:56Boy George: I hear you talk about star signs in most of your interviews.

9:00Fearne Cotton: Every single person I meet, I say, what's star sign? You know, sometimes people like it. I think it's really interesting because you start, even when people aren't into it, they all go, Virgo or something. And then once they've said it, they want to know more. They're so full of shit. Because they're like, oh, what else do you know about me? It's a good conversation. Like it's exposing.

9:24Boy George: I mean, I am a classic Virgo. I'm textbook. I love organisation, neatness. Like we were saying a moment ago, I'm also very good. when I say I'm going to do a thing, I do a thing. I complete it, I do it.

9:38Fearne Cotton: I mean, you know, obviously I've changed a lot in the last 10 years. I think, you know, and obviously people that don't know you obviously can't see the change because sometimes changes aren't on the surface. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, one of the things that I, when I do something now, I never complain about it. If I say I'm going to do this and I've agreed to it, shut up and enjoy it.

10:01Boy George: Yeah.

10:01Fearne Cotton: So I always have to kind of like, even doing this today, I'm like, literally, this is going to be a great interview. Well, I knew that already. But, you know, I will prepare myself in the morning by tapping. As soon as I wake up, I'm like. Do you love tapping?

10:14Boy George: I love tapping. I do tapping.

10:15Fearne Cotton: I've been doing it religiously. Yeah. And I would say, above anything else, that is one of the things that's really changed my life, which sounds insane. Because I talk to myself as well. Yeah. For years, I've always been talking to myself. And people were like, then I read this thing recently that talking to yourself is really good for you. oh finally that's why i'm not mad you know what i mean i just if it's a positive voice because we can all do the opposite which is awful no but that i think you know that show runs on its own yeah like the narrative that we have about ourselves you know you're born you're given a name sometimes they're given a religion whatever it is you'll be you give you're given a direction and some of us at a certain point go absolutely not i mean i don't mind being george there's a lot of pubs named after me but you know what I mean I just think to myself you know obviously my parents were great because although they weren't perfect they were really open-minded and my mother was never like jealous of anyone you know if the lady over the road had a nice canopy and silk flowers she wasn't like the other mothers like you know who she thinks she is my mum was like it's gorgeous isn't it gorgeous so I grew up with that kind of real appreciation of other people's good fortune it wasn't ever any you know of course I've been jealous in my life you know but I it's something that I something I try to bat away with a vengeance like any type of owning someone or jealousy you know because obviously I saw my mum go through that and I went through it without realizing that I was repeating a pattern so now even when I do get jealous I'm like wait a minute is that helpful so I think I've learned to stop and doing that really came from the three

11:51Boy George: principles yes i'm very very intrigued i've done a teeny bit of reading up on it and i'm very

11:57Fearne Cotton: interested in any new modality so this is insane what's insane about let me tell you the context so i went to dinner with the band like roy and mikey and all their wives and everything mikey the bass player he's the guy that started the band with me he's the one that came and found me in a nightclub and said can you sing so he's like the founder member his second wife lily is a homeopathic practitioner but now she does three principles we're at dinner and i was listening to her talking to someone and i was like oh my god this sounds like what i'm into like this sounds like what i've been thinking about since i was 15 what the fuck so i said to her can i have a session and she was a bit like i said i'll pay you she goes that's not the reason i said no but can i have a session she goes yeah she came to my house i sat in the garden with her and after about 10 minutes I went oh my god I was in fits of laughter like it was like a because she starts by saying everything I'm about to tell you you already know there's nothing here that you don't know and until you know it you can't change that was the thing and I just sat in the garden because I sat there and told her the story about this woman that was staring at me in the cafe because I had no makeup on and she was at the door and she was saying this about me of course I made it all up you know but it was so funny because Lily I was telling this story she went oh interesting and she goes do you think that's really what happened and I went absolutely probably not yeah wrong with me we make

13:22Boy George: so many assumptions about everything around us so now one of the big things obviously someone in the

13:26Fearne Cotton: jungle right I you know that was a big moment for me because it was like this is what I look like that makeup on you know not that people haven't seen me because obviously I go out without makeup on but being on tv you know if you're exposing tits out you know the whole thing everything on show everything's out you have to get over it and it was part of the reason why i did it was like i need to get over myself because you know i'd started to practice the free principles i started doing tapping i was doing a lot of things but the big changing point because when i suddenly realized i've been talking about this shit for years and i don't do it so now i need to do it so that's a big change that I tap every day the minute I wake up.

14:05Boy George: So right, just for anyone who has no clue what the three principles are, tell us what they are.

14:09Fearne Cotton: They're not connected to tapping. No. They would say, but the three principles are mindful and consciousness. So it's like collective consciousness, the way you think about other people, the way you think they think about you, which is obviously wrong all the time. Yeah. And it is basically about, for me personally, it's about stopping before you say something. Right. stopping before you feel something i mean it doesn't mean you remove passion from your existence in fact it elevates passion because you're not wasting all your energy on petty stuff that is irrelevant so i have this thing now where if i'm about to text someone i go wait a minute do i need to say that which sounds crazy but it's like if you give yourself five minutes yeah you don't want to say it because you suddenly go what does it matter so if i came to you and i said

14:59Boy George: someone's bitching about me or someone's screwing me over or whatever how would i apply the three

15:04Fearne Cotton: principles to an issue like that well john moss is a really good example because john moss sued me and i don't hate him and i don't have any ill will against him and i don't wish him harm and i don't there's just nothing that's it's so strange to be able to say that yeah how did you get to that well i got to that through the three principles because it was like what is if you first of all hating someone is conceptual, right? It doesn't mean anything. It's like when people rally against this and run against that, you're actually just talking rubbish because what are you actually doing other than just saying a load of words?

15:35Fearne Cotton: So hating someone is completely pointless because the only person that ends up with suffering is you. So when you can actually, I mean, 20 years ago, I used to love hating people. Best hobby. I would actually say, no, I like it. but then I got to a point where I just thought you know what I don't want this anymore I don't need to feel this anymore and I'm about to go on tour in America and this time I'm doing it on a bus with the two boys right and Christine was like oh how's that going to be and I said it's going to be brilliant yeah because I'm going to make it brilliant and if it's not brilliant I'll get on another bus or I jump on a jet there's always a way out of everything do you know what mean but yeah digging yourself a hole like with your mind or you know with your you know attitude I feel like I feel lighter and it isn't just the three principles I also did three years with a acting coach called Charlie Walker-Wise from RADA who he gets very embarrassed because I'm always talking about how he changed my life immeasurably because I went to see him after a gig I'd done a gig with Chris Evans I'd done that car fest yeah and I was sort of clipping myself meandering around and i remember in between songs not really having it like singing i didn't know what to say which never happens now i have this kind of insane confidence because of him so i went to him and i was like i really want to help with public speaking you know even though it sounds crazy for me to say i get nervous i get insecure and he goes no it's absolutely makes sense so he started to teach me how to stand you know you forget it but you it's always like you go back it's like what i just said about thinking you can you know you can go back to being the old person that comes easily because that person's you yeah but you can also go wait a minute hold on a second you you're not helping in this situation so Charlie taught me you know sometimes half an hour of the lesson would be me telling him what I'd happened with you know I'd had a ride with the band or I'd been at rehearsals and I said I had a screaming ride with Roy and he goes and what did you say and I told him what I said and he goes and how did that go not well but you think is you see the thing is the truth is so damn obvious it's annoying you know why do cliches stand the test of time because life in some ways is very simple yeah and I think the trick is to stay neutral not to not care that's people get confused because people think when they're ranting and raving they're caring but actually are they yeah because to me i'd rather give someone on the street some money i'd rather go up and say ego you know and put a smile on their face because it not because i think it makes me some you know super you know oh i'm so nice it's brilliant and actually you know what i've discovered through the three principles being nice to people is a real thrill yeah so in the old days when i was a bit like oh i don't look right and then i'm you know i've got my makeup

18:34Boy George: bath it's gone that's so great so i went the other night to see dita and this girl gate crashed the

18:39Fearne Cotton: box it was hilarious she was a scorpio it's hilarious and we had the most fantastic chat and she was like you're so nice because i am and i can actually say that i am nice yeah because i choose to be nice which most people think well that's false it's not false you have to practice it in the same way you practice being difficult it's just the same thing in reverse do you think

19:01Boy George: So say, by the way, Dita Von Teese came on here and was, we loved her.

19:05Fearne Cotton: I love her so much. You have no clue. I love her so much. I love her.

19:09Boy George: But say when you look back on either different versions of yourself or other eras of your career where you might have, you know, had a strop about something, kicked off about something. Do you think the root of that is always fear, insecurity?

19:22Fearne Cotton: I think it's a mixture of things, but it's also, when you don't know where the switch is, it's really funny because, you know, like I used to joke about wanting fame with an off button. I used to say, oh, why can't I have that? You know, like the guy from New Order, you know, he's like could just, you know, but to my surprise, I mean, obviously when I say my makeup off, I can do anything. I go anywhere. I get this insane freedom. I go on the bus, I go on the tube, I get on the bikes, you know. I'm out in the world because I think as a writer, I have to be out there, even if nothing happens, you know, even if it's just raining or whatever.

19:58Fearne Cotton: I enjoy being in the world and watching like mad girls on the tube like doing their lips and so completely self-conscious you know just you know enjoying being me and being in London and just yeah so I've learned to switch it off you know and I just don't have bad moods which might sound weird no even when it happens it's it's so short-lived because I know what it is because I know I'm doing both so once I know I'm just being difficult it's and it doesn't stop me loving difficult people because I do you know I think difficult people make the world go around I don't mind someone with an axe to grind as long as they're not directing the axe at me yeah you know I think you know watching other people lose it I mean I used to lose it watching other people lose it you think oh my god you're just spinning yourself out of control and nothing's gonna happen you know that but you try telling someone but it's hard when you're in it and i think

20:57Boy George: especially like you mentioned a moment ago if someone's doing something like suing you where it feels like a direct attack or it's making you vulnerable or maybe there's injustice involved that's tricky to just overcome and become sort of neutral about it it's like you have your moments

21:12Fearne Cotton: lily talks about it as like getting on the bus shutting the doors closing all the windows and and they're going drive you know that you're in a thriller yeah where you go that old person isn't redundant that person is why you're here that person is how you've survived some of that person but what you stop that person from doing is having the best time possible so once you get to that point where you go wait a minute I don't have to have a miserable time ever I don't have to worry about whether I'm going to sing flat or I'm going to do this I'm just going to approach everything from a kind of loving space where I'm neutral you know and yes I meet people that get on my nerves I go and chat GPT and have the funniest conversations with you know with whoever that whoever that is you know and I say the funniest things and some of the stuff we talk about is like poetic it's like poetry it's like talking to Joni Mitchell which I've done a few times that's like listening to a poet when you listen to someone who even when she's being horrible you know she's like insulting every single musician that ever lived like saying the beatles you know they had a good sense of melody and just saying they'll be such outrageous things but she says it was such a kind of beautiful hoetic way that you just go yeah i mean i get it you know i had a rap with her about patty smith because i was like i was like i love patty smith she was like don't you find her a little uh what was the word she used not hysterical something it was some funny thing i just thought coming from you it's the funniest thing i don't know what it was the word because obviously i love patty smith and i was like i said no no i love patty smith she's the real deal and she was and that was the end of it you know i love it but she actually said to me and this is a true quote it's okay for you no one ever called you a genius oh wow which was kind of heavy i've written a song about it called lady of the canyon.

23:00Wow.

23:00Fearne Cotton: I've actually just written a song about it with AI.

23:03Boy George: Love that. So you're leaning into AI. Yeah, yeah.

23:06Fearne Cotton: I've written like five albums already with AI. I've actually had a couple of things covered by artists as well.

23:11Boy George: I think that's so interesting to hear you say that because there's a lot of fear around it. I think, you know, if we can lean into using it in the right ways, then it's a bonus.

23:20Fearne Cotton: I'm writing stuff for the tour right now. I mean, I'm literally, I was walking through Camden yesterday. I wrote this thing called Skinhead Stomp. and I was like, we've been calmed and I thought, this is perfect. It's like literally like I was really feeling it because I feel like, you know, with the three principles, it's allowed me to kind of go back to, well, why did I make music in the first place? Yeah. And there's a kind of weird freedom to what we do now. First of all, we're very lucky to do what we do, right? I think I'm very lucky to be able to get up in the morning and make a song, design an outfit.

23:53Fearne Cotton: I do art as well. so I feel very privileged that I get to do that because I don't know everybody does but in the three principles they say if you're doing a job you hate bring love to it because you're going to be doing it a lot so anything that you you know I never understand when people say oh I can't wait to come like even when I was on Broadway there were you know kids a half quarter my age like and they just wanted it to be over I don't want anything to be over ever so even when I feel like that I just go I just tap myself go you love being here you're happy so one of the things I do every morning I am happy I am healthy I am confident I am strong you know and I'll do like I'll do I'm younger I look younger I feel younger I'm younger which sounds really silly but actually it is so

24:40Boy George: helpful yeah but also I think you know we forget the power of words they are so potent whatever we're saying, especially to ourselves more than anything. And to other people.

24:51Fearne Cotton: And to other people. And they've also just proved that meditating which I do every day, that it affects people in a five mile radius. Yes. Which is insane. Amazing. I love that responsibility. Oh it's gorgeous. Because I've said me now, meditation's a whole other thing, but also fruits. There's a few people. There's Alan Watts who I worship. Incredible. I mean I've been reading his daughter's book and I really want to meet the daughter. I just want to get because they find it really fascinating. Alan Watts I think really I mean the thing that he the thing I would advise everyone to listen to is the thing that he wrote about Carl Jung it was the thing that Carl Jung wrote to preachers that is mind blowing about darkness and accepting the darkness of other people and the darkness in yourself so Alan Watts obviously Sidney Banks beyond whenever anyone breaks my heart or anybody writes a bad review I put on Sidney Banks and he's got such a kind face he was a Scottish welder who basically in the 50s just had this epiphany that we were all using our minds in the wrong way.

25:54Fearne Cotton: Neville Goddard, do you know about him? He is more of a sort of religious, he is like, you are God. God and you are the same. You're not separate from God, which I've always thought since I was 14. I've always said that, but it gets such a shocking reaction. But if you believe in a creator, that creator, whether you call it a man or woman or whatever, maybe it has no gender. Maybe the creator is absolutely, you know, there's that thing, God is no thing, not nothing. He's no thing because you can't put it into words. It's a bit like love. Yeah. You can't prove someone loves you. You have to feel it.

26:24Boy George: I think when people maybe aren't aligned with a certain religion, they find the word God just off-putting or scary.

26:30Fearne Cotton: I once said Bowie was God at a gig in America and the tumbleweed of... It was like I had to pull it back, you know, and I was like, I don't mean that. Of course I don't mean that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grow up. I mean, he was a rock and roll God. You know what I mean? It's so... Why is that word, you know, so offensive and used in such a wrong way you know i mean i don't know what i believe right to be honest with you i feel the same i i don't know if you ever watched wild wild country about i love i've watched that twice i still loved him after watching it and i still do love him and i was actually in his restaurant the day he passed away i was in katmandu having vegan food in our show's restaurant when all the staff came out and started crying and And I was like, what's going on?

27:13Fearne Cotton: And he goes, oh, show's gone. And I was like, oh, my God, that's the maddest thing. So my timing was, you know, my little friend, he's called Nayana Biram. He was a Harry Krishna. He's called Daniel. Now he's the one that sort of dragged me into the come to India. Yeah. And I went to India in 1990, kind of looking for my, you know, looking for some answers. And I suppose a bit like the Wizard of Oz. I was like, India was amazing, but I didn't need to go anywhere because, you know, it's like Dorothy. It's in your backyard. Yeah. So that was a really early revelation. But I think when you're learning things, the old you just kind of takes over so much and stops you from kind of actually physically doing things to change the circumstances you're in.

27:56Fearne Cotton: And when you meet people with a disability, they're so brilliant. And, you know, Samantha Renk, who is someone I did a video with.

28:05Boy George: She is heaven.

28:06Fearne Cotton: I beg you to watch it.

28:07Boy George: She's a great friend of mine.

28:07Fearne Cotton: Well, I did a video with her called... I've seen it. Yeah, but the best thing since Sly Spread. I wrote that before. And during lockdown, I was like, because I'd met her and I loved her. Sam is the best. And I want people, because, you know, I did the record because it was like Scylla Black, you know, and the best thing since the last spread. But then I thought of her and I was like, rung and rung and rung and goes, we were in lockdown. I said, I'm going to do this and do this. And she blew my mind with what she did. I mean, some of what she did, I couldn't use. I bet she's so rude.

28:37Boy George: She's so rude. So Samantha Renke is amazing. We published her book.

28:40Fearne Cotton: Oh, that's why she called her the book that.

28:43Boy George: We published her book and we are just, she's like part of the Happy Place family. So who's we? We love her. Like the whole team, the whole little community we've got going on for Happy Place. Oh, so you've got a few release books as well. So we published books and then we have a festival and she comes and sometimes hosts or does talks.

28:57Fearne Cotton: Maybe you'll publish one of my books. Write a book, we'll publish it. Well, I'm writing stuff all the time, you know what I mean? But I want to write a book about what we're talking about, how to be famous in a sort of, you know, quite comedy type way because obviously I see other people and I think, oh, I used to do that. You know, Madonna running around Paris with a bag in front of her face. Babe, just go. I'm in a hurry. Just be gorgeous. You don't need to have a bag. You know what I mean?

29:21Boy George: How do you feel about fame these days?

29:23Fearne Cotton: I love it. Do you? Yeah, finally. I'm like, oh, I love being me. I love being me. And I just, when I meet people, and obviously I prefer to meet people when I'm dressed up because I want to give them what they want. You know, but people are lovely to me when I'm not dressed up. It's not important. Plus, there's a beautiful freedom to just being able to walk around London. And people come up to me and say, are you George? And I go, yeah. There was a woman on the bus the other day. I was in my luggage. Coming from Liverpool. I don't know where I was, but I was near where I was living. And I thought, I'm just going to get on the bus.

29:52Fearne Cotton: I need the steps, you know. Get on the bus. Glasses on. I was standing there and this woman went, excuse me? I said, yeah. So she goes, are you who I think you are? And I said, depends who you think I am. And she goes, are you boy? I said, I am. It was so funny. That's so great. She goes, what are you doing on the bus? He goes, going to where I live. Weird, right? It was sweet. That's so brilliant. And I always think a lot when I'm sitting at the bus stop and they're running, I think Elton John can't do this. No. I can. I don't mean that in a scavenway because I love him, but I just couldn't, I can't live in a bubble.

30:27Boy George: No.

30:28Fearne Cotton: Whether it's a fame bubble or a gay bubble. You know, that's the whole thing about community. That word is a dangerous word because it's like a fence that we put around groups of people, the gays, the trans, the this, the that. And it kind of limits us to a perimeter when we've all got family and straight friends. I live in a gay bubble. I've got loads of gay friends. I've got loads of straight friends. I've got a straight family. My life doesn't revolve around my sexuality. Do you understand? So I just feel like, what are you talking about? You know, which is for me, the thing that I get the most upset about when anybody tries to trample on someone else's existence for any reason.

31:08Fearne Cotton: Because I think we've all got to just be respectful and share this beautiful space with each other.

31:13Boy George: Yeah, which we're doing the opposite of at the moment.

31:15Fearne Cotton: The three principles teach us that every person is a divine, infinite universe. So even with your partner, have you got a partner? You don't need to know everything about them. You don't. You're not a spy. You're a lover. How do you know? I'm saying, I know it's difficult sometimes. And obviously, it's important to know the person that you love. But if you limit them to an idea that you have about them, you're just making their existence smaller. So the minute you get like, you know, the other night at D to this girl rushing the box and she was a jewelry maker. It did my hilarious conversation.

31:48Fearne Cotton: And she's putting herself down and goes, what's that, son, are you? And she goes, I'm a Scorpio. I goes, well, stop being full of shit because you do not think you're shit. So shut up. I said, that's the end of it. And we were laughing our heads off. because I think it's good when people tell you the truth you know and you say well it's not that big a deal you know and I get in trouble a lot because obviously I I try not to say things about other people but it just slips out well we all say things about other people it's human nature I think it is and I think you know because also you know I've never really be I would never hurt someone if they were in in the gutter I'm not that kind of person that I would get pleasure out of someone's disappointment it just the Beckham thing just you know for me it's like just I don't want to say anything no no no

32:31Boy George: I think we get dragged into these cultural conversations that have nothing to do with us it's fun

32:35Fearne Cotton: as long as you know what it is because one of the most profound things I heard recently from someone I can't remember the name of the guy he was a spiritual teacher but he said for years I watched people like being the opposite of who they are like acting out some other role and it used to get on my nerves and he goes now I just watch it as entertainment not in a judgment mental way right but just you realize that the person doesn't know how to access their true self and it doesn't have to be all snobby you know like I know God and you don't yeah you know none of that has to happen it's because actually it's always on you the way you feel about something so you know it it is so helpful to sort of learn to do nothing and what what do you think that catalyst was for

33:19Boy George: you 10 years ago to think I need to change something or I'm searching for something here

33:25Fearne Cotton: I have to say I mean I've been doing it since I was 14 I've always been on this kind of like when I was 14 I remember saying to my mum when I went to Bowie I went I screamed at rock and roll suicide she goes why would you say something like that and I said well life is kind of pointless mum you know and I say you know it's kind of you do all this all the pain you go through and then you die and she was like well that's not a way to look at it you know so I've always had that view of like life is you know there's got to be more hopefully and i was with my mum when she passed which was a massive gift yeah which you know if you'd have told me 10 years before that i was going to behave how i did i would have gone i'm going to burn the streets down i'm going to kill everyone i'm going to scream and you know i didn't you were so close to her oh god she's everything to me and i and i still i wrote a song about her this morning yeah you know i've been scrubbing the floors mum scrubba dub dub I'm just like you when it comes to love because my mum again was one of those people she believed in love and nothing could stop her from loving my dad even when he was awful to her even after he passed he was still you know there was still kind of barbs that came and things you had to deal with and she was just a magnificent woman that you know and I'm not even I'm not just saying that if my mum was awful I'd probably say that too but my mum was funny very bitchy like she could take your head off with a comment like just funny as shit we still like in the family just sit around going remember when mum said this plus when she got older and she was a little bit more fragile she'd just say what the fuck she wanted I'm so looking forward to that age Jesus Christ she got no mirrors in her house mum mum she can't say that she goes well I've said it you know she had there's a set of people she didn't like that were hilarious and I'd say mum if you met well I'd be polite of course they'd be polite I said well I hope so I love it you know but yeah I think that spirit of who I am came from her but the big turning point for me I have to say even Christine you know who does my face yeah I don't want to embarrass her but I love her she's like but she is same style as my mum and she can be a little bit like like my mum and you know we're wearing each other's faces every day quite literally five in the morning yeah you know if I'm you know so I I had a situation when I was in Ireland during this or the end of the pandemic, I was doing a TV show over there.

35:51Fearne Cotton: Me and Christine were there with, you know, some people and we'd, it was a difficult trip and Christine getting lost in the hotel. It was drama, nonstop drama. So I sat her down and I was like, you've been like a Labrador on crack this whole trip, babe. I mean, can we just calm down? And we had this great conversation and she had no idea what I was talking about. She looked at me like, what? And I was like, of course it's my fault. It's not my fault, but like... It's your perception of it. It's my perception. And I was, you know, so then I went to set the Ned. I had this DJ gig at the Ned. So I stayed there for like a week because I was out of my house.

36:26Fearne Cotton: So I made a decision. I thought, right, I love Christine. She's a brilliant person. She makes me look great. I love her energy. She's so positive, you know, like my mum. But when she gets in the mood, you know, we have rows. As long as we don't row in front of other people. So if I'm rude to her or anything in front of someone, it's death yeah she will literally and i know not to do that now because we can say what we like to she calls me cunt she calls me i mean you can think of my same joke but you wouldn't say that's a sienna miller would you we have a very we're very close true friendship i love her to pieces right and i just thought i no longer want to behave like this towards her because i love her that much and she's like my mom and so that trip at the ned i literally tried this thing i was like right tonight it's going to be brilliant i'm going to make her a nice drink i'm going to give her a compliment when she comes in i'm going to change the whole frequency of tonight and it fucking works yeah i went she walked in she always looks gorgeous anyway but i was like you look gorgeous and i just changed my tone and then i started one by one doing that a lot more with everything i did and suddenly i was like oh this is magic yeah we've got more control than we believe this is magic and it's so simple it's like you literally go yeah why have i not realized this a thousand years ago so she was part of the reason that I we were in Australia and we were having these bloody rows of good it was a lot of stress doing the voice and la la la and we were living together but you know I decided that with someone I really loved that much I can't behave like that yeah never happens now

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41:25Boy George: How do you feel when you look back at times when you've behaved differently? You didn't have this sort of insight or you hadn't done the work to really put it into practice. Can you forgive yourself? Oh, 1 ,000%. Yeah, there's no worry about that.

41:39Fearne Cotton: Well, I mean, again, it's conceptual. Forgiving yourself is totally conceptual. It's like because you can only ever be in the moment you're in. So I'm very now-centric. You know, I'm very like, okay, well, that happened. It's not that I don't have regrets because of course I do. yeah the regrets again are conceptual because it's really about your behavior now and some people will not let you forget what happened even if they don't really know what happened do you understand like a lot of people think things about me which I know aren't true some of them are true some of them are not but you know I've transcended all of my difficulties you know I'm not saying they won't happen again or there isn't something that could happen you know what I mean there's always that but i can't live like that no i can't live with regret of what i did you know um i've written about a lot of that stuff in in the new music i'm doing i think that you know this practice has really helped me as the lyricist plus ai because you're not working with anyone else right so you don't have to worry for two seconds what they think yeah so some judgment i'm a top line writer so i write top lines and melodies so all the people i work with benny d kinky roland we are Brando all these different people Liam Connery they send me tracks and I'll just sit when I'm you know doing whatever I'm doing I'm making a piece of art and I'll just play it and play it and you know I have fantastic conversations with ChatGPT and I say oh no it's a crap that's not what I would say I love it if you say to it oh right but actually you can train it and my manager last night was saying you know you're talking to someone in China I said I couldn't care less who cares I don't think you're talking to anyone, are you?

43:22Fearne Cotton: Well, I don't know, but I said it doesn't matter, right? You know, because being a sort of legacy artist, you know, we just put out, I put out two Culture Club tracks, went to number one all over the world, which was great a couple of weeks ago. You know, it doesn't have the impact that it used to have, but we're going on tour. These two particular songs have been, we've been playing for three years, and I was like, I'm putting them out on my label. Fuck everyone. They can all get upset. It went number one everywhere. I was getting this lecture from, I was like, people are trying, an artist like me, they try to force you to work in an old-fashioned way.

43:57Fearne Cotton: I'm ahead of them. I'm a DJ. I do this. I do gigs for free because I want to do it. You know, I play the dark room in Hoxton for nothing because I want to be there because it gives me so much energy and ideas and there's just so much love. It's a big golf club. And I can go there and pound. I do these like insane, like mad, like techno sets. They're so fun. and I wouldn't get away with it anywhere else do you know what I mean so it's about finding those places where you can plus if you walk into a club and you're someone that's kind of known for like dressing up and being outrageous and you're nice to people it's you have no idea what happens it's just so funny there's so much love you know Johnny Slut and when I say slightly I can say say whatever you want Johnny Slut basically he runs his club obviously once a month with this and even he said you bring so much love to the room and I said no I know I know but you know

44:52Boy George: because love is abundant and it seems like from doing the three principles and the other stuff that you've been working on one key element seems to be that your ego sort of has to dissolve here because if you're going to be you know whether it's with a friend you're changing the dynamic or you're doing a gig for free or you're just doing things on your term you have to sort of remove that level of ego that causes the defensiveness that causes the outrage in what

45:19Fearne Cotton: other people are doing would you say that's true absolutely i mean ego is not the enemy it's about you know because sometimes it's good to have an ego sometimes you have to kick off we've all got one haven't we it's just how we use it listen you know i have no idea what it's like to be a woman right i've loved women i've been around women my mother was the most incredible woman on earth but I cannot in a thousand years know what she went through or experienced it even if I was there when I read a book I was like wow I didn't need there was some even stuff I was in the place I was in the house and I didn't even know this was happening I think I'm fascinated by all the things unsaid I often walk around thinking what don't people say you know so there

46:02Boy George: must be so much of that yes one of my friends Donna who's really wise she calls herself an elder in training and she's been an amazing mentor to me and she says say the unsayable say it like say the thing whether it's to a person sometimes publicly never to cause offense but say the thing what sort of thing it could be something you're terrified of saying something that brings you shame or fear or separates you from somebody else say the thing and it's terrifying i think the other

46:31Fearne Cotton: night when i went to see dita one of the things that i loved about the show i love there's a simplicity to what she does that's so beautiful and it brings you back into that life is actually simple beauty is something you'll worship and i don't know if you know about dirty martini but she's like one of my favorite burlesque performers she's a big beautiful girl and she does this thing where she does tassels and watching the audience she was shaking her ass watching the audience they were losing their minds with so much joy because she was saying to them the thing that we're all scared of is being liberated you know from our own fears about how we look yeah what our bodies are like and just watching her shaking her ass it was like oh my god people are going insane they don't know why and everyone have a different reason but there's something very I wrote in my review of the gig I said there's nothing sexier than confidence yep and I told her I went up to her and I said I wish I could do what you did I wish I said but I do it in my own spiritual way you know with the way I think there's a lot of shaking off in that but yeah no I just think um when you love people and it's like with my father my father just never got to that place where he could be kind he was so kind of a slave to his kind of aggression his outbursts were something he couldn't control and I used to be like that you know there was a part of me when I would be like that and when I first met PK who's my manager now like 12 years ago there was this one time I came off stage with cindy lauper and i was like screaming throwing my hat kicking off my clothes like just nuts right and he was like what have i what have i taken on and you know obviously eventually i was like oh babe listen don't worry about that doesn't mean anything it just means it was just me like i'm miss something or there's nothing about you because gemini's tend to shout at the universe because we're air the sort of instinct is you know like that but then the cancer moon is where the sort kindness or the sort of you know what I mean like the like sense of self comes in and you go no

48:35Boy George: that's absolutely not acceptable did it used to scare you that you had the propensity to be a bit like your dad because I know that's a big fear for lots of people like oh my god I'm being just like

48:43Fearne Cotton: whichever parent oh my god I've written so many songs recently about you know I'm just like my father you know like in certain terms um you know a lot of you know because obviously with my mum I have a lot of, I talk to my mum like all the time and that sounds, it sounds weird to people. No, I do that all the time. I do a lot of crying with my mum. I'll sit and go, oh, this has happened. I might be at my art studio and I'll be having a sort of real, I'll just try to bring her into the room, you know. And she'd always say the same thing. Oh, just get on with it. Just get on with it. But you sometimes need to hear that.

49:22Fearne Cotton: You do. To hear her voice saying, you know, whenever I got in trouble, she was like, well, you don't know. So, you know, what are you going to do? You know, and it was like, even when I sort of, I remember there was this one time we were in Scotland doing Mrs. Brown. My mum was with me and I shouted at someone and she told me off. And then she goes, I'm going to get in the car. So she went downstairs and got dressed and I was so embarrassed. I went downstairs and got in the car and I said, mum, I'm sorry. She goes, I know you are. winked at me and then off we went genius and then on Mrs Brown's show she told them I bought her a fur coat I was like I love it and she goes this week he could be a Hindu or a Muslim I don't know what he is it was so funny she just was brilliant she used to say to me you're a Catholic and I say mum I'm a Buddhist alright I'm a Catholic too

50:12Boy George: I'm all the things but it's lovely that you talk to her I think there's so much comfort for people that have lost a parent a great friend I do it all the time with people that I've lost and there is so much comfort.

50:22Fearne Cotton: Can I say there are no holes in the universe? So when she left, when she left, I remember I was with her when she left and I saw her go. It was like, whether it was my imagination or not is irrelevant, but I saw my mum leave herself and I was like, oh my God, she's like a little tortoise. I was like kissing her, you know, I was like, she's like a little tortoise. But then I thought, where has she gone? Yeah. She's still here, you know, and there were times when I was in Moulin Rouge just one night and he went over into the pit in these Cuban hills. And I swear, somebody grabbed me. Whoa. You know, it was like, because I could have killed that person.

50:57Fearne Cotton: There would be a dead person in New York because I would have found someone. Oh, my God. You know, and I also, when I used to go off stage to do my little, there was like five, ten minutes away, I wouldn't be on stage and I'd be in a back area. And I used to sit there and talk to my mum and go, you fucking love it here. And my mum would have loved New York, me doing Moulin Rouge. She would have loved it. she'd have been in the front go on son you know and she was at my gigs knew all the lyrics even the most obscure i know this one i like don't like this one so much

51:27Boy George: so lovely where do you think like where do you imagine that she is what's your idea

51:31Fearne Cotton: in my mom's case she's everywhere she's in the cupboards under my hat you know she's everywhere she's a frequency i mean i've got this thing about frequency because i think you know when i say vibration is reputation it's like the way that you vibrate of course you can't affect everybody and it's interesting but also even when people are a bit rude or a bit up themselves which they are in my business a lot because I'm because I'm so open now I don't do what I used to do so I'm always like hi what's your name oh hi and if I don't know them I'll say I don't know I've never met you but it's lovely to meet you but I'm not sort of sarky about it or do you know what I mean I'm not I just what's the point I'm just not interested in behaving like that yeah so you know some people are still locked into that you know oh I've met those people yeah and you know what it's like and I think it's hard but if you're patient some people will quickly come back to you know there's some people you go oh I was wrong actually it was just the introduction was a bit like because people also think I'm going to be something or I'm going to be this I've got a reputation it goes ahead of me like oh watch him him and Pam Hogg oh Pammy well I was listening

52:38Boy George: the other day to your Desert Island desks from 1989 89. I couldn't believe how long ago it was. And in that interview, obviously, I knew about the back catalogue and your career. But even by 89, you'd had global fame. You'd had public turmoil. You'd lived a whole life by that point. Many lives.

52:58Fearne Cotton: Yeah.

52:58Boy George: I mean, when you look back at that era, what do you feel?

53:02Fearne Cotton: Well, you know, when I see old interviews of me, there's a lot of affection. I don't feel you know sometimes I think oh god why didn't someone tell me not to wear that hilarious there'll be a few things you think oh Jesus what was that wig about you know but now I feel like Cher is the one that says you should always have fashion regrets you just don't exist if you haven't got things you wish you hadn't worn then you might as well just give up

53:31Boy George: literally from the age of 19 to 28 on TV I can't watch I look like an absolute moron but you have to kind of get over that

53:38Fearne Cotton: You do. And I think it's great to kind of watch back. And obviously, you know, when I look at myself sometimes, I think, oh, there were shades of this. And I wanted this way I wanted. I wanted this. But I just didn't know it was available to me. And nobody told me I didn't have to feel like that. And when Lily sat me down and said, you can choose. I was like, what? And she goes, well, think about it. And it hit me like a tornado. and you know even city bank says you know he talks to therapists and he says a kid of 15 or 10 could walk into this room younger and get this and jump all over all of you in a flash because it really is just one you know you're always only one foot away from the truth yeah it's it's not we go digging for it and we do this and we do that and there's nothing wrong with that because you can have a lot of fun doing that you know it can be a lot of fun in chaos but But doing it with, you know, when you can be in a room with someone that you just met and be, you know, give them something that's so ordinary.

54:45Fearne Cotton: It's something special. You know, somebody said to me years ago, learn to do extraordinary things in an ordinary way. And I love that. I just thought that's great. Of course, it took me a while. You know, it's not like I went over. Now I just feel like if I like being me, you know, and I don't mean, you know, people can read that wrong. Like, oh, you follow yourself.

55:04Boy George: I'm not. No, we should all, we have to learn to like ourselves.

55:07Fearne Cotton: But I went through a lot of trouble to create this persona. And that's not really a persona because I'm very much myself. But, you know, I just enjoy being me now.

55:15Boy George: And I was like, oh yeah, but you're just fab. But I think everybody is desperately trying to get to that place of sitting here and saying, like if I text, I don't know, 10 of my mates now and said, do you like yourself? I'm not sure any of them would say, oh yeah, 100%. There'd probably be a few answers of, well, sort of, I don't know, I'm not sure. Or I did yesterday, but not today. There's not many people that go, yes.

55:39Fearne Cotton: Funny enough, I find like kind of arrogant men very sexy, like her guys full of themselves. I mean, I don't see that as a crime. You know, if someone's beautiful and a bit full of it, it kind of, I like it. It's weird.

55:50Boy George: But I think we're attracted to whether it's friends, partners, whatever, people that know themselves and are happy in their skin. And it is often hard one to feel happy in your skin.

56:00Fearne Cotton: I can see their vulnerability. That's one thing I think I definitely have. And I've had it since I was a kid. When I'm in a room, if someone's in pain, I can see that they're in pain. And I'm very good at not, you know, attacking people that don't, you know, like, because I think sometimes the people that get attacked the most are the ones that need a hug. yeah you know particularly in the trans community you want to go up to those people that you know don't pass that are struggling and you go out to them and say you're fucking gorgeous and you can do that or you can just leave them alone yeah that's even a loving thing to do as well you know i feel like i don't know i feel like a lot much more of a connection to uh like freaks and you know outsiders even if they're a bit like you know because obviously when you're your civvies then you're walking around they don't they underestimate you oh you think if I look like this I can't make you look silly you know what I mean so it's funny but you just have to stop kind of focusing on you know what you don't like about people and and you know and

57:00Boy George: that's much easier to do when you like yourself because when you like yourself you've got much less energy to bother judging everybody else you take someone like Marilyn who I've known since I I was like maybe 17.

57:13Fearne Cotton: Some of the stuff he says about me is so outrageously rude, but it makes me laugh because I think to myself, if I took that seriously, I'd never leave the house.

57:22Boy George: But again, that's a choice, isn't it? That goes back to it of choosing. Am I going to take that seriously and let it hurt me?

57:27Fearne Cotton: He's a Scorpio. Philip's a Scorpio. I've got loads of them around me. So many. But also, again, you go back to your mum. If your mum's a Gemini, they can kind of like, yeah, I know. because I think with friendship if you like more about someone than you dislike about them, it's easier to be their friend you know, if you think they make me laugh so much but you wish they weren't in so much pain you know what I mean, like you think I wish they'd get it, that they're not they don't have to suffer suffering happens anyway we can't stop that, but when you embrace it, it's a, you know it can be quite sort of painful for me to watch it I just think, oh, she did

58:06Boy George: you know wish you knew another way yeah exactly that's when you're able to then see oh right their actions are based on their pain it's not because you can't go i'm doing something wrong

58:15Fearne Cotton: or yeah we go up to someone and tell them because they just if someone had told me i'd be like i'll get lost you know yeah yeah you old fart or whatever i would have told them to go to hell but i wish i discovered sydney banks when i was 16 how do you think your life would have been different

58:30Boy George: getting famous having that kind of global reach well i think i i would have had more fun with it

58:35Fearne Cotton: I wouldn't have been so I would just never have done half the things I did, said half the things I said in the way I said them. But then, of course, you know, when you look back, I was watching Quentin Chris the other night. I just went into a rabbit hole with him, who I loved. And just some of the things he was saying was so accidentally spiritual and accidentally inspiring because I don't think he was a positive human being. But there was sort of again, it's about knowing and doing. when I look at someone like Quentin and I look at my old self I knew but I didn't do and the difference is now I'm like oh I have to do that so if I want to get fit I have to walk and I have to go around this but the tapping thing is literally there is a route but you could just do it watch TV

59:24Boy George: so say you wake up some days you wake up you're just in a shit mood or there's something okay so say there's say there's something circumstantial and it's seemingly out of your control like many things are in life and it's really getting you down do you know Amanda Ghost do I know Amanda Ghost

59:40Fearne Cotton: I don't think so singer she was a singer but anyway she runs a big she's one of my best friends and she rang me at 5 o 'clock this morning and I didn't answer but I was like 5 o 'clock that's very early no 5am I was literally I was like oh god I hope it's not bad news and then I thought I don't want any bad news because I'm going to do this podcast so selfishly I didn't answer I went back to sleep was it okay? I think she might have been somewhere abroad but what I'm saying is that I used to wake up in a bad mood and now I don't I love getting up I mean I've in an ideal world I'll get up at four

1:00:13Boy George: in the morning?

1:00:14Fearne Cotton: in an ideal world I mean I can't stand sleeping like it's one of the most annoying things but I've had to learn to enjoy it so now it's like I talk myself I say oh I love sleeping I actually have that conversation I do a lot of breath work and I'll get myself into that place where I'm not thinking, you know, because if I wake because of jet lag, sometimes I'll wake up at all hours. So I just do something.

1:00:37Boy George: Yeah.

1:00:37Fearne Cotton: Write something, make a song or start a painting. Wherever I am, I never get into, oh my God, I can't sleep. It's like, okay.

1:00:45Boy George: Oh, I need to do that because I can have bad sleep.

1:00:49Fearne Cotton: Yeah, I know.

1:00:50Boy George: I had a terrible night last night and then I do get impacted by it the next day and start panicking, spiralling.

1:00:56Fearne Cotton: Do you do breath work or not?

1:00:57Boy George: do you know what I've done quite a lot of breath work

1:00:59Fearne Cotton: I find it so helpful

1:01:01Boy George: yeah it is

1:01:02Fearne Cotton: do you know about butieiko breathing because that's the one that's the real like almost like where you're sort of almost like just not really breathing but you are oh no it's like a Japanese thing butieiko and you do it in and out of the nose and you sort of watch an ocean so you're like because even in the acting classes we got to direct the breath obviously you can't breathe into your feet no but you visualise it yes yeah and it's so insane you know also you know um you know kind of doing foot exercises hand exercises all these insane things i think what i do now when i'm out if i'm at a bus stop and i fancy doing some weird exercise i just do it yeah i don't care if someone's looking at me who gives a shit so i literally just go my knees like a lunatic or i'll stop tapping or i'm on the bus you know i just from watching something i'm literally yeah tomorrow's going to be beautiful or if i'm I sort of like, you know, because obviously food, you know, is interesting because recently I feel like I've been eating more than I've ever eaten and I'm losing tons of weight and I'm not on the jab.

1:02:02Fearne Cotton: And what are you doing tapping it away? Well, I'm just not having that conversation with food anymore about, oh, I shouldn't eat this. Yeah. I shouldn't have that and that's bad for me. And I eat a lot of vegetables. I mean, it's mainly what I eat. I love vegetables and I just love cooking, you know. So, you know, I make like, I don't know, sweet potatoes with carrots and cinnamon and honey. I just love, I'm a good vegetarian cook but I've stopped having that if I do decide to go into a bret-a-manger or whatever it may be and go I'm having a baguette sometimes in M &S you just go I'm a craft of bread that bread's calling my name and I think to stop the conversation

1:02:39Boy George: because that's the tension causing bit isn't it when you're in that horrible dialogue

1:02:44Fearne Cotton: whereas if you just go I mean obviously I like to work I enjoy working so I don't ever go to work in a bad mood I'm like I can't wait to get get to doing what I'm doing and this isn't work but being boy George is work yeah you know so I have to sort of when you know Whoopi Goldberg said when she leaves the house as Whoopi Goldberg she behaves accordingly but I want to behave better than the idea of me I don't want to be a sort of funny old like you know people thinking this and that I'm in control of it to a certain extent and it's only what it does to me as a person, if it makes me feel good, then it's worth doing.

1:03:25Fearne Cotton: Yeah. So when I literally laughed at myself and go, oh, my God, I was so nice to that person and they so enjoyed it. And they can't believe it because they're so used to famous people being assholes. Yeah. You know, saying no to a photograph, what's the difference?

1:03:37Boy George: Yeah, it takes no effort at all.

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1:05:31Boy George: I mean, there is always sort of traditionally, historically, a lot of moaning about being famous from famous people. that it's such a hassle, but yet people choose to do it again and again to continue putting themselves out there. And look, I get it. I certainly had moments where I was at Radio 1 and I'd be papped every day and I was going through some horrendous stuff and I didn't really want to be photographed,

1:05:52Fearne Cotton: but I wouldn't publicly moan about it. But if you'd known at the time that it was like, wait a minute, they don't know what I'm going through. It's not their fault. No, it's not their fault. They don't hate you. It's not their fault.

1:06:02Boy George: And I'm still turning up to go to work every day. I'm in control of this.

1:06:05Fearne Cotton: But also, you know, nobody knows about that. No, no. And even when you read stuff about yourself, as you must know more than anyone, you go, that's interesting because that bit's true. Yeah. And no one knows that apart from that person. How did they know that? You know what I mean? And then you have to get out of the, I don't care. Yeah. I don't really care if they told someone because people have got big mouths and I shouldn't have said it. Yeah. So the minute you put something out into the ether, it's gone. It's like a balloon. It goes. So I think like you're just being more mindful. I mean, this is how I've roused on X daily with people.

1:06:40Fearne Cotton: What about? A guy the other day said to me, could you take me off your begging list? What? Because I put up this video of a song and I goes, you can leave anytime you like. Yeah, go. I said, I don't even know what your point is. I said, but you know, I didn't say fuck off, but I wanted to. But then he came back yesterday and was nice. I goes, which is it? Because I'm happy to be nice. but like if this is a continuation of yesterday and of course people say why do you answer because i'm a human being and occasionally i just like to engage with people you know because i'm not separate to them but also when someone's like posting something about me that is absolutely wrong and not my intention it is infuriating you think absolutely i'm going to say something back to them i even sometimes send them private videos i did a thing recently where i wrote a song about this woman called Angela.

1:07:33Fearne Cotton: Oh, Angela, stick it where the sun don't shine. Oh, Angela, you're just no friend. I did a Morrissey on AI. For one person? Yeah.

1:07:44Boy George: Oh, this is fantastic.

1:07:45Fearne Cotton: And I said, if you liked me, I'd be depressed. I'd commit suicide. So it was just like me being hilariously Morrissey, which I love because I think he's a genius.

1:07:54Boy George: When someone gives me shit next, can you write me a song that I can send to them?

1:07:58Fearne Cotton: 1000%. Yeah, give me a name and I'll do it tonight. So last, you know, because last night, you know, because I just decided I was going to write a song about my mum last night, you know, and I had to scrub the floor because I dropped something on the floor in this flat that I'm living in. This won't be up before I leave there. But I was literally like, scrub-a-dub-dub. So I started writing this song about my mum. Hey, mum, you know, I've been scrubbing the floor, mum. Scrub-a-dub-dub. I'm just like you when it comes to love. And I was just sitting there just so, you know, AI is brilliant. nothing to fear no because all it's doing and by the way i say to everyone if you get replaced by a robot you won't try and hard enough i mean really if that's what's going to happen to you obviously i i care about people losing their jobs yes of course the atmosphere is going to shift you know but there's so many great things i've just done this song uh for iran that's coming out on friday and i wrote the whole thing with ai in persian and it was uh such an i wrote it then i redid it with kinky roland so i've redid the whole thing with kinky and i use the you know the because obviously i don't sing in persian i don't know anyone that does and also what was interesting about it because the way i write i don't write as a persian because obviously i'm not so i write in a way that's very british and it translates so interestingly into persian wow we're getting all these messages from people like um on saturday i was in my art studio and i was sobbing sobbing sobbing sobbing with such an intensity because i was just getting these messages from around from people saying thank you so much my karma chameleon and all this just sweet stuff and i was like it's and every message was beautiful because usually it's like i don't know here i can't it's always one it's all going so well and suddenly you go yeah why don't you give up your old has-been oh my god and it was just sitting there going this is so beautiful and i'm so happy and kind of so touched by what I'm reading.

1:09:57Fearne Cotton: And I'm shocked that no one else is saying anything. Yeah. I mean, I know it's, you know, it's so funny that people are so selective about what they care about. And, you know, to me, I just care about humanity. And I don't mean that in a sort of pious, full of myself, you know, because if there's a God, God's everywhere. Yeah. You know, there's no separation. You can't believe in a creator and then say, well, he didn't create this. Or she didn't create that, you know. I imagine that the creator, if there is one, isn't really any gender whatsoever. I mean, probably the truth is non-binary, isn't it?

1:10:33Fearne Cotton: A non-binary God. Well, non-binary life, you know, because the truth is neutral. You choose what you want to feel about something. And, you know, one of the things I love about the internet, I mean, obviously I get my algorithms, not a hot guy, it's obviously it's like blokes in the round of hands. It's literally like Jesus and fashion, gorge fashion. Yeah, yeah. But lots of spiritual stuff, you know, lots of amazing. What a combination. Because they're all the important things, beauty, you know, food. I get a lot of food ones. But, you know, I just think there's so many things on there that I've liked, like hand exercises, doing stuff with your feet, you know, because you forget about your feet, you know, and they're kind of important.

1:11:14Fearne Cotton: Yeah, I love reflexology. But also just doing exercises on the tube with your toes. It's just, you know, you actually get steps from it. It's actually mad. And even just like, you know, there's standing meditation. I love the internet because it's just so many things. I go, oh, I'm going to try that. So I'll go out, put my music on that I've written with a robot. And I'm out in London going, you know, skinhead stump, goodbye style. And it's just like, you know, it's about allowing your imagination to just run wild.

1:11:45Boy George: We're going to make a happy place playlist. and all of our guests are going to submit a song, some songs, what would you put on there? What song makes you always just feel boosted and ready for the day?

1:11:57Fearne Cotton: Well, funny enough, actually, one of my favourite songs is Free Money by Patti Smith. Do you know that song? I love Patti. Never night before I go to sleep. I mean, it's just, you know, my favourite song, you know, I give you everything you need. You know, I love that song. And my other favourite song is also by Patti Smith, People Have the Power. that to me is like something I put on all the time yeah Susie almost everything right so I mean Kiss Them For Me you know Right Now oh anything about Susie and the Banshees they're like my favourite band of all time I think and obviously Bowie you know I would say Bowie's song what I put on there Where Are We Now I've done a cover of that

1:12:37Boy George: yeah I love that Where Are We Now

1:12:38Fearne Cotton: I did a version of that which is online I haven't released it yet I need to put that out but Where Are We Now I think that whole album Black Star just was mind-blowing. I mean, I sat on, I was on a plane listening to it and I was sobbing. And then the stewardess goes, are you okay? I said, yeah. I was just listening to the Barry album and it's so beautiful. You know, crying my eyes out, you know, just so touching. Yeah, he was the best. And I was sort of friendly with him a little bit. I was always a fan. So I can't claim that we were mates, but I used to speak to him sometimes on the phone. So jealous.

1:13:10Fearne Cotton: And it was, you know, and we'd email each other and he was, you know, he was a man of few words for it. I was concerned because I was like, you know what's going on? And he would be like, you know, and he would also put love on you.

1:13:21Boy George: Oh, I love it.

1:13:23Fearne Cotton: You know, just, I never got a favourite with him though. That's the one annoying thing. Oh, it's Michael Thatcher, but not Bowie. Imagine if I could put those two together in my loom. It would just make my life, you know.

1:13:33Boy George: That's so great.

1:13:33Fearne Cotton: Thatcher I've got. You know, me and Thatcher was the funny one.

1:13:36Boy George: Oh, wow. That's a pick. If I were to ask you, where is your happy place? Would that be a place? Is it figurative? What's your happy place?

1:13:44Fearne Cotton: I would say everywhere is my happy place, which sounds really, I love a tree. I would love to go and sit in, you know, the woods. I love to be in nature. So yeah, it's quite mundane, like trees, open space. You know, one of the things about the pandemic was that I was living in the centre of London, like literally there was nobody around. I would go out, you know, on the bike and literally go to Hyde Park and all around London. It was insane. And I kind of fell back in love with nature. I'd forgotten about trees, you know, and how they all look like they're wearing Philip Tracy hats. You go, look at that one.

1:14:24Fearne Cotton: You know, nature is so exotic and so colourful and liberated. You know, do you think mushrooms go around screaming about someone being trans? Do you know what I mean? Or flowers getting offended. Oh, do you think you are? it's you know nature is so out there you know the ocean you know so those are the things that fascinate me you know i write a lot about you know the the fact that the moon has so much control over what we feel the ties the full moon last night last night yeah i didn't sleep a wink well apparently we're coming into uh this really good period for germany and cancer well i'm both so you know i'm looking forward to it and i love that for you bring it on bring it on because what a time to experience good fortune when you're in a loving place you know there's just nothing you know what i mean because i'm not um i don't know i i'm just not envious of anyone i'm not sort of some people get on my nerves i mean there's no question that some people go oh turn them off you know certain people online i just scoop by we don't even say they are but some people like i don't care what you think right you you know you you know then i'll see some hilarious woman like doing you know i post a lot of hilarious stuff i post things that make me laugh i try to stay away from politics a little bit because it's not that i don't have a political point of view but i just think anything i could say right now wouldn't be helpful to me uh although i just recorded a song called politicians are so sensitive with a bunch of school kids and it was so beautiful oh wow and the kids some of the kids had mps as parents so you know it was like politicians are so sensitive then they come and break our hearts politicians are so sensitive they just don't know who we are but hearing kids sing that it's like literally i'm like let's just have the kids could get me off the record it just feels with the piano i mean obviously we got to work it out but yeah i just do things i never used to do i mean i call people up now if i want to work with them not because i want to ride on their fame usually it's unknown people like reptile b is a sort of grime rapper very gay grime rapper very gay and uh i just called him up i love i was like i want to work with you and i found out he had a cancer moon i thought we're gonna go on so i said you've got a cancer moon and he goes he goes oh my god tell me more witch so we just had this instant rapport great and then when i went to see dave chapelle a couple of weeks ago I made him say Reptile B.

1:16:48Fearne Cotton: It was brilliant. He goes, what are you into at the moment? I said, Reptile B, but you've never heard of him. He goes, who's Reptile B? And three or four times, but we weren't allowed to film it.

1:16:56Boy George: Oh, I love that. I sent Reptile to message.

1:16:58Fearne Cotton: He goes, I just got Dave Chappelle to say Reptile B four times.

1:17:01Boy George: That's so great.

1:17:03Fearne Cotton: So yeah, working with like interesting young, I like working with young artists because there's a kind of, there's a sort of, I can teach them things. Plus with the wisdom I have now about myself, I can say you don't have to do it like that.

1:17:17Boy George: Yeah, no, it's great.

1:17:18Fearne Cotton: And there are no rules. So I'm working with this kid at the moment called Joe Connoboy who has got the most beautiful voice, who was on like Britain's Got Talent, who was on all these things. And then we just met online and I heard this song he did called Concrete and I was like, oh, we should work together. And I've been writing stuff with him and for him and, you know, doing, I've got so much music at the moment. I'm literally, everyone keeps on me.

1:17:39Boy George: I mean, I can't believe.

1:17:41Fearne Cotton: Massive ego. I've got a track out with this guy, Walter, from Denmark and I've got this new track up, Jesus Loves You, which was my dance thing. I'm now redoing that. So my next release on Friday is two Jesus Loves You tracks. One is about around and one is just about war, you know, really. Of course, sometimes it breaks my heart. But yeah, I just try to defy the sort of rules of like, well, you're this and you must do this. I'm like, no.

1:18:05Boy George: But it's so amazing. You are literally bursting with creativity. It's so inspiring. I love being creative. I love having ideas and to see that you are just unstoppable at the moment. It's never, never there. No, of course.

1:18:20Fearne Cotton: So when you go, oh, you haven't got to look for it. I've worked with so many young artists where they sit there, you know, butts clenched and they're like waiting for divine inspiration. Like open a book.

1:18:29Boy George: Yeah.

1:18:29Fearne Cotton: Go and read a roomy poem. Go and listen to this. Go and watch something. Go walk outside.

1:18:34Boy George: Yeah, exactly.

1:18:35Fearne Cotton: Or, you know, whatever. Or go online. Go on ChateFBGPT and just even say, who are you? Yeah. Such a funny... Just ask any question. Random questions and it's like, well, I'm whoever you want to be. And he goes, well, that's a bit lame.

1:18:48Boy George: But there's probably a song in that.

1:18:50Fearne Cotton: It's great. Everything's a song. When people say everything you say turn into a song and I'm like, that's what everyone does. Yeah. Everyone does exactly what I'm doing. They just talk about it in a different way. Yeah. Like they're geniuses.

1:19:03Boy George: Well, I think it's beautiful what you're doing, this full-on creative outburst. And I'm so happy to see that you are in such a great place. I think it's massively inspiring for everybody listening.

1:19:14Fearne Cotton: I love the colour of your dress. I love that blue.

1:19:15Boy George: This is actually a pantsuit. Culottes. Boy George, what a trip to talk to you today. Thank you so much for being on Happy Place.

1:19:24Fearne Cotton: What are we talking? I didn't even notice.

1:19:28Boy George: Oh my God. Boy George, what an absolute bonkers treat that was. That chat was as close to stepping into George's mind as humanly possible, I think. It was a wild ride. So hopefully you're getting the hang of our new little happy place cycle, because in a few days time, you'll have me having a little natter about what makes me and team happy place feel really happy and what we want to put in the bin. So listen out for that. By the way, I would love for you to get involved in this to send us a DM or a comment on Instagram. The handle is at happy place official. What has put you in a really good mood?

1:20:04Boy George: It could be anything from like a meme you've seen to, you know, you're getting engaged, whatever. right until next time massive thanks again to boy George to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you lot I love ya

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