Bryony Gordon: How people pleasing fuelled my OCD, alcoholism, and eating disorder

0:01Fearne Cotton: Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fearne Cotton. This is the place where others don't have to like you for you to like yourself. Today, I'm chatting to Bryony Gordon. This is the truth. I wake up every morning and my brain, like the goblin king in my brain, is like, Briny, everyone hates you. Everything you're supposed to do today is going to be a failure. And you let down everyone yesterday and you're going to let down everyone today. You're disappointing people. You're too much. And there's a coin, right, that we exist on, on either side of. and one side is too much, you're too much, and the other side is you're not enough.

0:44And they're basically the same thing.

0:46Fearne Cotton: You find me once again at my kitchen table, hence the slight echo maybe, slightly sort of tinny sound, I don't know. I'm at home trying to get through just all the lists and feed the cat and the bloody tortoise because, I mean, he's more hard work than the other ones. The cats are pretty easy. They just go about their own business. The tortoise, I've got to bloody hand feed the guy. Not only that, I have to give him a bath every other day and I'm not getting much back from him, that's for sure. It's a one-way street with that guy. Anyway, I've got laundry to do next, so I'm going to crack on with this introduction because this is someone who I absolutely adore.

1:22Fearne Cotton: And also someone that's been a friend for, I want to say, over a decade now. And she's really helped me out in lots of ways as a mate. But my initial introduction to Bryony was through her books. So her book Mad Girl totally changed my life actually. That might sound a lot but it did. It really, really did. Because she talked about things in a way that helped me eradicate levels of shame that I had about stuff and worry and panic. She's just brilliant. I love her. If you don't know much about Briony, I mean I know many of you will. But let me give you a little intro. She is the brilliant, passionate mental health advocate Briony Gordon.

2:06Fearne Cotton: Now I've obviously just written Likeable, How I Broke Free from the Need to Please. And Bryony, coincidentally, because we didn't know we were going about our business at the same time, has written a novel called People Pleaser. Yeah, we women are really waking up to just how much of our lives have been dictated by the pressure to please everyone else at the expense of our own happiness. so we talk about a lot OCD alcoholism telling the absolute truth where you can always feeling too much or not enough but wanting to put that in the fucking bin fight flight and fawn a new one to me I love learning about that shame is a massive one I actually reference a specific story in my own life that Bryony, I mean, hugely just changed for me and helped me with.

3:00Fearne Cotton: And it's to do with teeth. So listen out for that. And of course, we chat body image because Bryony, this is almost one of her specialist subjects, I would say. You're going to love it. This podcast is supported by MidiHealth. Are you in midlife and feeling dismissed, unheard, or just plain tired of the old healthcare system? You're not alone. For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored, and met with a just deal with it attitude. Many of us have been made to feel ashamed or forgotten. In fact, even today, 75 % of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated.

3:39It's time for a change. It's time for MIDI. MIDI is not just a healthcare provider. It's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world-class leaders in women's health. What sets MIDI apart? We are the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies, making high-quality expert care accessible and affordable for all women. Our clinicians provide one-on-one, face-to-face consultations where they truly listen to your unique needs. We offer a full range of holistic, data-driven solutions, from hormonal therapies and weight loss protocols, to lifestyle coaching and preventative health guidance.

4:15This isn't one-size-fits-all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you. At Midi, you will join our patients who feel seen, heard, and prioritized. You will find that our mission is clear, to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the health care they deserve. Because we believe midlife isn't the middle at all. It's the beginning of your second act. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit JoinMidi.com today to book your personalized, insurance-covered virtual visit. That's JoinMidi.com. Midi, the care women deserve. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. you already know once I'm in my jammies, I'm in my final form.

4:52And lately my last step before fully clocking out is the CoverGirl Jammie Lip Sleeping Mask. I just twist, apply with the mess-free applicator and let the dreamy lavender scent literally tuck me in. By morning my lips feel smooth, revitalized, and baby soft while I'm doing absolutely nothing. Iconic behavior. So shop CoverGirl Jammie Lip Sleeping Mask at your nearest retailer now. Only from easy, breezy beautiful cover girl tired of your car insurance rate going up even with a clean driving record you're not alone that's why there's jerry your proactive insurance assistant jerry compares rates side by side from over 50 top insurers and helps you switch with ease jerry even tracks market rates and alerts you when it's best to shop no spam calls no hidden fees drivers who save with jerry could save over 1300 a year switch with confidence download the jerry app or visit jerry.ai slash ACAST today.

5:52Fearne Cotton: Right, here we go. This is the show.

6:15Fearne Cotton: Briony Gordon, this is such a treat. We haven't done this for about eight years, we reckon. No, I don't. Yeah, what year is it now? We're in 2026, just to let you know. We did this in 2018, we think. Yeah. And then again, I think just before the pandemic, as part of like a sweaty Betty thing. Yes, that's right. Yeah, but this is such a treat. And now it's like, it's such a real treat to be here and to see you. Well, it's a real treat to have you here for so many reasons that I'm going to get to. One of them being we've both weirdly written a book each, respectively. Imagine if we'd written the same.

6:53Well, we kind of have written.

6:54Fearne Cotton: Yeah, about people pleasing. Yeah. You've written a fiction. I've written a nonfiction. No coincidence. My first question is, because on the front of your beautiful book, it's very pink and shiny and leopard printy. Yeah. It says, Olivia Greenwood, who is the protagonist, is fresh out of fucks. Yeah. Briny Gordon, how many fucks have you got left? None. None at all. Really? Yeah, I let them all go. No, every morning I wake up with a lot of fucks. Okay. Yeah. So like I wake up burdened and weighed down by all the fucks I give. Like I wake up and my brain is like, everyone is going to just look at you today, Briny, and be like, you're a waste of time.

7:33So like even just getting here today, I put on this top and I was like, oh no, I shouldn't wear that top because it shows my arms. Or it shows my bra. I was like, so what? I'm a woman with big tits. Of course I'm going to wear a bra. Yeah. Or my arms. these are my arms I'm a human with arms all the better to like the front of your book to do that with and I have to kind of remind myself that I'm a grown woman and so yeah I definitely I try not to have any fucks but I think with this book so it was so interesting because I remember when I texted you you know that like excruciating bit of book promo where you have to be like I've written a book and could you read it and do a quote or whatever it is.

8:18I have to do it all the time. It's awful. Yeah, yeah. And you were like, well, it's funny that you say that you've written a novel about people pleasing because I've written a nonfiction book about it. And I was like, what the hell? Because we haven't seen each other for like four years.

8:31Fearne Cotton: This is, I don't think it's a coincidence at all. I think so many women of our age have got to the point in life where they're like, the old ways that I've been working don't serve me anymore. And something has to change. And this is an interesting era for middle 40 somethings. Yeah. Because I'm with you. I'm not at a place of like, I don't care. I don't care what people think. I do care. But what I'm willing to do is ride out the discomfort of people having negative commentary about me, saying they're upset with me, me actually visibly pissing people off. That I can ride out. Whereas before, I muddled that with, I'm a terrible person.

9:13Fearne Cotton: Yes, absolutely. I'm the worst person on the planet for upsetting that person. And I don't believe that anymore. And I think many, many women and men, but I think they feel this a lot less. I'm imagining making assumptions here. Many, many women in their mid 40s and above are going, I don't want to I don't want to do that anymore. I that was what this book it was. It came to I came because I've written like eight like memoirs, nonfiction books about addiction, eating disorders depression all of the OCD those things that I've experienced and when I came up with this idea and I was like I need to write about people pleasing but I was like I can't write a memoir saying this is how I got through people pleasing in the same way that I had like this is how I got through alcoholism and got sober and this is how I dealt with OCD because I was like I haven't actually dealt with this at all, but it is at the heart of all of the problems I've ever had in my life.

10:13Yes. All of the problems.

10:16Fearne Cotton: This is what I wanted to ask you, because I think that's what I realised writing Likeable, was that so many of my issues were founded in trying to please everybody and not rocking their boat. And people pleasing can sound a bit sort of throwaway. And like, it's just this innocuous little thing that you might sometimes do. But I think the outcomes can be very severe. So would you attribute, I don't know, like if you're looking at OCD or an eating disorder, how much of that correlates, would you say, to people pleasing? So I look now at OCD as it was, I realised what it was, was it is a very clever way of my brain trying to keep me safe and trying to explain.

11:03So I look back, I was really mentally unwell as a child to the point, you know, I had obsessive compulsive disorder that manifested as intrusive thoughts and told me that I was basically the worst person in the world. And I had to say phrases to keep my family alive. And, you know, it sort of verged on paranoid delusions at times. So I was really, really unwell. But of course, this was a time when we didn't talk about mental health. It's like no shade on my parents. And they obviously saw this very unwell child who often couldn't leave her bedroom, you know, and they didn't know what to do. And it was like, don't be like that.

11:46Don't be, don't be silly. This isn't going to happen. You know, stop. You don't have to say these phrases. Get on with it. Get out of, you know, and it was all like, and people pleasing became, it was like a way for me to go. if I can just make people happy, then it's all going to be okay. And I think OCD was my brain's way of like being hyper vigilant about the environment around me. And if I can scan and check that I'm not doing bad things, then it will be okay. And then I won't be making people unhappy. How interesting. So I do, I really do. And then again, like alcoholism, which, you know, I'm nearly nine years sober now but it was like it was apps even though the but my behavior when I was drinking and taking drugs was not pleasing to anyone least of all myself it was how I sort of like stuffed things down you know it was like I would get to the end of the day and you know working in the media it was tough you know it was also full of misogyny you know and you'd get to the end of the day and I'd be like I just need to you know to drink to make myself yeah to make myself to make everything feel just kind of fucking palatable yeah numb yourself yeah and so when I and as you said I then got to kind of the age of 41 42 and I was like this isn't right none of this is right and I needed to write something whereby I could almost like cosplay at being the woman I wanted to be so in people please i don't want to like spoiler it but this girl this woman she's not girl how dare i call olivia greenwood i find myself saying girl all the time yeah i'm like oh i'm just a nice little girl no i'm a grown fucking woman yes and anyway olivia the protagonist of the novel is in her 40s and she's you know she's like a put-upon mom her career is not going exactly where she would like it to be and she wakes she basically goes on a night out with a young colleague who gives her a gummy and she wakes up the next morning and she can't please anyone but herself so she starts telling the people people the truth so it's like liar liar but with a harassed mum yeah as opposed to a an evil lawyer and I was like I had so much fun because I was at this stage of my life where I was like I feel so much discomfort at people pleasing but I'm still not at the point where I can tell everyone to fuck off and so it was like I was basically imagining all the things I would love to say if I actually had

14:25Fearne Cotton: the guts you know and I guess letting that I'm going to use the word girl again but letting the good girl facade slip because the first thing she does after she wakes up from that she's been out with Rose this mysterious work colleague she wakes up the next day and she's drinking in the shed in her dressing gown at like 11 in the morning and her kids and husband are going who like who are you because I think there is so much pressure for women and mums but also women without kids to turn up in a certain light wherever they go and for us to be neat and tidy yeah stay within the lines and actually sometimes we want to be wild and wayward and messy but there's no room for us doing that without someone going you're a lunatic yeah exactly the standards are so different and the expectations are so high and you know what I've realized Fern and it's it goes to this thing of being likable it's like why does it matter so much that people like like me do you know what I mean like it doesn't it shouldn't I remember when I got sober someone said to me what other people think of you is none of your business and I was like shut the fuck up it's my only business and as I got older as I get older I'm like yeah I don't give a shit if you like what I'm wearing or if you think I'm too much you know yes I'm I you know I am too much I'm too fucking brilliant I'm too legendary and for you to be able not you personally Fern but for you to be able to deal with and it's like I just had to yeah I wanted to create this woman who just could do whatever the fuck she wanted.

16:04So I asked a lot of my friends, you know, what would you do if you weren't scared of what other people would think of you? Just in a day, if you had that superpower and people were like, I would sing out loud listening to my music on the train. It was really interesting all the different things that people came back with. I love that.

16:24Fearne Cotton: What a great question. Yeah. And I was like, and one of them was like, I would just spend the whole day drinking in my pajamas. And I was like, okay, Olivia's going to do that. What would you do? What would be your thing? Well, I think I try. I probably do. I try and do this as much as possible. So I would probably like run in my underwear around London. You've done it. Ticked it off the list several times. If I wasn't worried about, oh, I don't, I think even though I feel like I am inherently a people pleaser, I try and live my life in a way that is sort of, but I don't like, yeah, actually thinking about it.

17:04Fearne Cotton: What would you do, Fern? I don't know. As you were saying that, I was thinking, what would I do? What would that thing be? I think I'd probably, I'd probably take a few more risks work-wise because I think that's been a big, big one for me is I feel still now, like when I released Likeable, I had to, you know, do all the press stuff that you have to do to sell a book. It's really hard to sell a book. We all know that. So you go on to break it down and be really like a base level about it. You need to go on a TV show. You need to do a book tour. And I felt really overexposed in that moment. I wasn't.

17:37Fearne Cotton: There's people who were on TV every day. But I just felt like this is opening me up to a lot of criticism that I don't know if I can handle. Not even about the book, just about me existing or me saying something. And of course, you know, on social media, you're going to get every variation of comment, whether it's oh I love the book or like your top or people saying I think that you're this over self-analysis is narcissistic and you know whatever people want to say yeah and all of it just makes me want to run away and hide and hide in a little hole and I think if I really stopped caring I would be doing so much more I would be doing all sorts of work stuff that I don't want to put myself out there for because it feels embarrassing I just don't want that feedback I just don't want it I I really it's a real that one is a real tricky one for me but I need to think about that question more maybe it's going to percolate throughout the day because I'd really love to land on a solid answer of like what would that one thing be I think everyone listening to this should have a think about that too because it's maybe writing it down is going to be a helpful tool as well yeah I think it would actually you know you've touched on something there Fern and it would be yeah if I if I really could really dump people pleasing for one day it would be that thing of like standing in my absolute motherfucking majesty yes you know without any fear of what people were going to say about it and it would be doing the dazzling things because I often do do that thing of like yeah like promoting this book I was I went the other day to do a post and I was like oh I started writing shameless self-promotion and I'm like what the fuck this is my Instagram like if I can't do this here and it's also it's also a book that I have like like sweated blood and tears over and also how am I modeling to the people that follow me like no I've done this and this isn't shameless and this is fine right so I think I would just be less apologetic I would be less apologetic be more American about it yeah I wish oh my god it would be like bold brash and more brilliant even more brilliant uh that's what I do and I wouldn't be like scared to say that you know I think that I should like be on Strictly Come Dancing and win it yeah exactly I think that I I want to be like I think I should be in like bad bunnies casita you know dancing sex yes I would all of those things all of those things I know because the thing is the one thought that helps me push through those feelings is imagining myself hopefully at 90 95 and looking back and I would not regret any of those things there might be other stuff I regret I think having regrets is quite normal but I wouldn't regret giving something a go or being all in like you I'm an all-in person I am like open-hearted all in I give everything my absolute 100 % in all areas and to my detriment a lot of the time yeah and I don't want to change that about myself and I've worried so often that people think oh she's too much like she talks too much she's too loud she's too over the top she's too huggy she's too whatever and I really want to care less about that and I think going back to what you said a moment ago about being likable and you know when people throw negative opinions about you whether it is you're to this you're to that the two things that I've landed on are first of all are they saying something that actually highlights a worry or insecurity we have that would be interesting to look at not to berate yourself or turn against yourself because that's what I've historically done like oh yeah I am a piece of shit I'm just a piece of fucking shit but actually go right you've just said over and analysing yourself is narcissistic do I have a bit of an insecurity about that maybe how could I get curious about that how could I dive deeper into looking at where that's come from if any of it I believe is true or not well also doesn't it say more about the person that's left the comment I think it absolutely does but I think it can still be really interesting to analyse why it's caused a reaction because if you said to me oh you're too purple I'd go no I'm not I know I'm not yeah but if you said you're too like too much I'd go oh why does that feel yeah like am I worried about the rejection because you believe fundamentally at the heart of it that you are yeah yeah that's the problem isn't it Fern it's that we as women and it is very I think specifically as women are it's it's there's there's a coin right that we exist on on either side of and one side is too much you're too much and the other side is you're not enough yeah and all they're basically the same thing right so we need to land in the middle yeah perfect but it's all about fundamentally keeping yourself small keep yourself small don't inhabit the space that you live in don't don't step into your motherfucking majesty that's going to be my life i need to go get that tattooed on your face i'm actually on my face yeah let's go and do it come on everyone um and you know and that is it's a way that the society and i don't think even consciously does it you know but it's like oh don't rock the boat you know be be good because it is a safety mechanism you know we hear a lot about fight flight freeze you know as in terms of a kind of as trauma responses to danger but what we don't hear about is form which is this this this quite like this hyper vigilant response where to get someone on your side or you know something that you that is a threat to you you're nice to that thing you know and that is absolutely a hundred percent my way of dealing with things yes and I think for a lot of women it is and yeah as in my 40 I often think and I say this like you spend the first 40 years of your life trying to be the person you're told if you are this thing then your life will be good you know if you get married if you get this job if you but you know you get a house you have a baby you do you know you you you know your skin looks like this and all of that then you'll be happy yeah and then we get we do all of these things we work really fucking hard to do all these things and it's like oh hang on a second I why do I feel still feel like something is wrong and it's like well because you're none of some of those things you might want to do that's okay but then the next 40 years of your life if you're lucky are kind of going actually who do I want to be and what matters to me and so when I first came up with the idea for this book it was like it I want it to be kind of magic you know like very much like freaky friday or big you know a spell is cast over this over olivia and she needs to work out how to undo the spell and then i got to this stage where i was like hang on she doesn't need a magic spell put on her because there's this thing called perimenopause which does it for you right and like i really felt i got very low in my early 40s I mean I'm saying this like this was like decades ago this was literally like I'm gonna be 46 in a couple of months right and it got really low and really uncomfortable with all the people pleasing it was like I can't do this anymore it makes me feel so dirty and disgusting it's a bit like I don't if anyone has ever like tried to get sober and they go to 12-step meetings but they carry on drinking there's this phrase which is like it's fucked you fucked drinking for yourself right because you've got like a head full of recovery and a belly full of beer and it was the same I felt like this with with people pleasing I was like oh I'm saying yes to things I really don't want to do and I just feel gross and anyway I was really low really very depressed and I think there were lots of different reasons for that and I you know and then I realized I was perimenopausal and I was like fuck actually this is an opportunity like perimenopause menopause is not this like awful thing where everything shuts down and that's it it's like it's an opportunity and the stuff it brings up for you is like your body and your brain going are you going to deal with this babes because if you don't the next 40 years of your life are going to be tricky too yeah so like fucking go for it and that that was what I was like oh Olivia it's just a 40 something woman who's like fuck all of you yeah I've had enough yeah I can't I cannot take any more and like what you said a moment ago about keeping small you can really get a sense of that the start of the book where Olivia is doing that like she's grateful for the little tidbit she's given at work like I'm so I'm so grateful and that's one thing that definitely fucks me off is if a woman ever says, I want more, or I want better for myself, or I want this, or I want to.

26:59Fearne Cotton: I wrote a poem the other day about women stretching their arms as fucking wide as they can get them and knowing there are no edges. Keep fucking stretching your arms out. You don't have to go. Gratitude is amazing, and that is just a baseline for all of our happiness, to be grateful for the things that we know make a difference in our lives, whether it's our health, our family, our friends, a beautiful thing to do. But to be grateful for things that you know are not enough. Well, also, I'm not going to be grateful for you paying me for doing the work. Yeah. And also, I'm really good at... This is the other thing.

27:34Yeah. Like, I very much felt that. And, like, I really needed on behalf of... This is a novel, right? So, like, it's made up, okay? But it is very much fucking rooted in the experiences that me and my friends had in our 20s working in the media. And I was like, actually, it doesn't matter. Like it could be any industry where you put up with breadcrumbs. You put up with shit and you're gaslit and you're told, be grateful and all of that stuff.

28:05Fearne Cotton: And then you get to your 40s and you're like. It stops women's ambition, I think. It stops women going, oh, I could, if you want. it's not for everybody be the CEO ditch this job do something I really love be a founder whatever it stops me from doing that because we're told well you should be grateful for what you've got yeah I'm grateful for the things that I know I'm very lucky to have whether it like we just said all the base all the basics but when it is you know that you're being kept down kept small because you're simply a woman like that's where we need to spread our wings widely yeah absolutely And also I just that thing of like I had I had quite a lot of fun writing.

28:46There were so many scenes. I just loved writing where and that the when and when it opens up and Olivia is like all she's going through all the things she has to do on a daily basis to make herself like likeable. Yeah. You know, and all these things where she's like, you know, it's the 300 pounds she has to spend every few months on her roots or her, you know, on the Botox that she thinks she has to get to look like this certain way. And obviously this is not a judgment on anyone, you know, who does do any of these things. But she's like also it's like the eyeshadow that she, you know, the perfect palette so that it's not too much and she can't wear red lips and eyeshadow and all this stuff.

29:29and I was like, oh my God, all of these things. All of these things. We don't even realize that the energy and the effort that we put into them before we've even got out of fucking bed. Yeah. And I was like, imagine, imagine if we didn't have to think about this shit, you know, like what we could be doing with our lives. Anything we want.

29:51Fearne Cotton: Anything we fucking want.

29:56This podcast is supported by Midi Health. Are you in midlife and feeling dismissed, unheard, or just plain tired of the old healthcare system? You're not alone. For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored, and met with a just-deal-with-it attitude. Many of us have been made to feel ashamed or forgotten. In fact, even today, 75 % of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. It's time for a change. It's time for MIDI. MIDI is not just a healthcare provider. It's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world-class leaders in women's health.

30:34What sets Midi apart? We are the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies, making high-quality expert care accessible and affordable for all women. Our clinicians provide one-on-one, face-to-face consultations where they truly listen to your unique needs. We offer a full range of holistic, data-driven solutions, from hormonal therapies and weight loss protocols to lifestyle coaching and preventative health guidance. This isn't one-size-fits-all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you. At Midi, you will join our patients who feel seen, heard, and prioritized. You will find that our mission is clear, to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the health care they deserve.

31:14Because we believe midlife isn't the middle at all. It's the beginning of your second act. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com. Mitty, the care women deserve. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. You already know once I'm in my jammies, I'm in my final form. And lately, my last step before fully clocking out is the CoverGirl Jammie Lip Sleeping Mask. I just twist, apply with the mess-free applicator and let the dreamy lavender scent literally tuck me in. By morning, my lips feel smooth, revitalized, and baby soft while I'm doing absolutely nothing.

31:55Iconic behavior. So shop CoverGirl Jammy Lip Sleeping Mask at your nearest retailer now. Only from easy, breezy, beautiful CoverGirl.

32:04Fearne Cotton: Disordered eating messaging is all around us. You can hardly leave your house or check your phone without seeing something about dieting, weight loss, or exercise. With all that pressure, it can be hard to recognize habits have become harmful or even an eating disorder. If you're concerned you or a loved one might have an eating disorder, I want to introduce you to Equip. Equip is a fully virtual evidence-based eating disorder treatment program that helps patients achieve lasting recovery at home. Every Equip patient is matched with a multidisciplinary care team that includes a therapist, dietician, medical provider, and mentors, and you get a personalized treatment plan that's tailored to your unique goals and challenges.

32:47Fearne Cotton: Equip treats patients of all ages and all eating disorder diagnoses. It's covered by insurance and there's no wait list. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get help. Visit equip.health to learn more. That's equip.health. Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store. The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades, or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more.

33:27Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market.

33:36Fearne Cotton: As you said, fictional character, but very much works in the job that you did back in the day. Now, an interesting point that I love that you brought up in the fiction is even as a people pleaser, when you work for a newspaper. Yeah. On one hand, you're trying to people please the editor. So you want to get the headline. You want to get the scoop. Yeah. But often that is then at your detriment because the people reading it or the person you've written about is up in arms. And you've been outrageous to please your boss. Yeah. How did that sit with you when you were working in the media back in the day, knowing that you've got, you know, hundreds, thousands of people who can then attack you and say, I don't agree with what you've just written in this week's column?

34:19Yeah. Well, I don't know. It was really weird. I think I've always been just used to just getting abuse. Like I always remember, like from a very young age, that you become quite conditioned to it. And again, it's like you're told, be grateful that people are telling you that you're a worthless piece of shit under your columns because that means people are reading it. You know?

34:41Fearne Cotton: But did that on a deeper level not make you feel... Of course. I'm going to self-loathing still when that happens, but I'm now at an age where I can check myself and go, you don't need to listen to Sean from Shropshire. It doesn't matter. Sean from Shropshire is like... He's a made-up guy. I feel sad. No, Sean from Shropshire is not a made-up guy. They exist. Sean from Shropshire is... It's like a tongue twister. Sean from Shropshire. absolutely exists and i feel sad for him and that's how i've had to come to this place where i've never like i've never done that thing in journalism of tearing people down no for the that's not your style that's not my that's not my style unless they absolutely uh have done something terrible and it's warranted like andrew man can't even say his name andrew from norfolk um but i uh and i've always tried to be the purpose of the stuff i write is i write about stuff that makes me feel bad about myself and the hope that it makes other people feel good about themselves and then if sean from shropshire doesn't like that you know um i just i i think about Sally from Swindon who you've really helped you know and so yeah but obviously journalism is a a cutthroat industry and I I sort of don't really know how I've managed to navigate it in a way whereby it I get to but I think it's because I in a way maybe that was the non-people pleasery thing that I've always done which is that I've always written about what matters to me and for some reason I was gifted this ability to speak honestly about really dark stuff that I was personally going through in my life and that happened to please my editors back in the day because people wanted to read about you know someone speaking openly about mental illness and alcoholism and stuff like that.

36:50Fearne Cotton: Yeah, it's bloody powerful. But I don't, yeah, I don't give much truck to Sean from Shropshire and what he thinks about my waist or how, you know, or how narcissistic I am or how self-indulgent I am. And there's one guy who used to go around and count the number of times I wrote I in a column, as a way of kind of make it. And I was like, God, what a sad little man. What a life. Go and get a hobby. And also, if you're writing a column about your mental health, you're going to have to write I a few times. I can't how many times I write it in Likeable. Fucking loads. Also, what's wrong with me talking about myself?

37:37I hate that. When a man writes a memoir about addiction or the stuff that he's gone through, he gets a fucking Pulitzer. And when I do it or we do it, it's like, you know, I don't know.

37:51Fearne Cotton: They are wanging on about themselves again. But I have to say, and I should have said this right at the start, but we've talked about so many brilliant things already that specifically your book Mad Girl was a game changer for me. I mean, this is not news to you because I can't remember how we first got in touch, but I remember having this game changing conversation with you where I met you at your office at the time. I think I've been on your podcast. Yeah. And I had never even said the word bulimia out loud. I felt, I don't even know if it was shame. I think it was more this weird disconnect where I just thought, I don't associate what I was doing with that word.

38:30It feels like a thing.

38:32Fearne Cotton: And the thing I was doing, that wasn't a thing. You know, I'm not doing it anymore. And it's in the past. And I couldn't say the word out loud. And reading your book, Mad Girl, it was so liberating to see you just talking about bulimia, OCD, depression, anxiety in a way that was just everyday conversation as hopefully it can it can become more like that. I don't think we're ever going to get to a place where it's just commonplace but I think we should be able to talk about these subjects without it being either I don't want to hear your story you're a narcissist or oh my god I can't believe they're talking about this you know you've brought so much liberation to these subject matters but for me personally it was game changing because I couldn't move on from it without recognizing it.

39:17Fearne Cotton: I was just stuck in this thing of like fingers and ears, la la la, don't think about it. And having that chat with you and you talking about like the lowest of the low moments within your bulimia allowed me to go, oh right, I actually feel really sorry for my younger self going through that. And why did I go through that? What led me to that? And oh, this is actually a mental health issue, not just me being problematic doing something I shouldn't have done yeah well first of all thank you for I'm glad thank you I'm glad I'm well I'm sorry that you I obviously I'm not grateful that you've gone through that but I am grateful that you shared that and that you and it helped and I think that's the thing it's the shame we feel about all of this stuff like I just spent like decades I'm only 45 right and I have spent over half of my life two-thirds of my life I would say feeling ashamed of who I am like at my heart I'm like I I just yeah just so ashamed ashamed of you know and and and not even ashamed of the things like bulimia for example like I didn't think that was a bad thing you know like in fact that was weirdly something that I was like proud of because I I thought it was making me smaller and it was making me take up less space, you know.

40:40But looking back, like, fuck, you know.

40:42Fearne Cotton: Same, same. And actually, do you know what? Now you're saying I do have shame around it because the one thing I remember, you helped me through the shame of I've still got like gum damage at the bottom of my jaw here, like receding gums. And I still feel shame about that now. I still feel like. Oh, my God. You know, I don't think about this, but I have. You told me you had a missing tooth. I have a missing tooth. I still have a missing tooth. And I never got it filled back in because it reminds me of how dark my life used to be and how, yeah, that I was throwing up so much that I literally rotted one of my teeth.

41:23Yeah, yeah.

41:24Fearne Cotton: But you telling me that was enough for me to go, okay, I don't want to go around showing people that I've got receding gums on the bottom, but I feel like I can say it out loud. Like, I don't have to sit there going... Like, I used to look at other people when they were talking and, like, study their gums. Like, oh, my God, their gums are perfect. They go all the way down to the bottom of their teeth. Like, I'm so envious, and I used to feel so gross about it. But you, just kindly, me and you, we weren't near a microphone. We were just having a cup of tea. you showing me that you had a missing tooth was like oh my god i cannot tell you the weight that took off of it and like just eradicated the shame immediately immediately and that's why let's not give a fuck about sean from shropshire saying you're a narcissist because for me that is the power of it people sharing stories about themselves and lets other people know i'm not drowning in this alone and that is fucking important it is well it's it's actually the only thing there is fun like I remember when I went to rehab and we had to sit around in this circle I was like it was you know as you'd imagine in a rehab and tell like the worst stories of the worst things that we had done in our active addiction you know some of us that was alcohol some of us that was drugs it was like you know it was a whole thing and and I remember that it was like right it's your turn Briony you know you've got to talk about tell us about one a night or when things you went out and you thought that you were just going to have you know a drink and you ended up it went crazy and I was like where do you like I could pick any number of occasions and anyway and I remember being like I can't you know I can't do that and this woman this counsellor said to me you know Briony shame dies when you expose it to the light and I remember because I remember at the tail end of that like active alcoholism being so ashamed I was like I am the worst mother in the world you know because I there's like no other woman is no other mum is behaving like this I am the only one and then I remember going to rehab and the first person I met was another woman same sobriety date as me child the same age literally lived a mile up the road and she's like my sobriety best friend to this day you know and I realized oh fuck like I wasn't special or different and I wasn't a terrible human I was just someone with an illness and my whole like at every point all of my work has been like I have lived in this shame and then I've realized that actually I'm just a very normal human and there was nothing to be ashamed of and I could get better and stop living in the shame and it like properly breaks my heart for and to think of us all out there like feeling ashamed of our receding gums or feeling ashamed of you know whatever it is like our size are you know there's always something you know we are taught we have been programmed as women to pick ourselves apart in the name of belonging you know it's not like what do you think is great about you it's like what would you change oh my arms my whatever you know I wish I didn't have paws you know my paws weren't visible I'm like what the fuck it would have meant to be these sort of like weird android humans just smooth and shiny everywhere with no hair and so what the fuck and it makes me furious it makes me furious because it's like fuck me Like this is all like perfectionism is a tool of the patriarchy to keep us small.

45:01And we are colluding with it. And it's not our fault. This is not to shame anyone. It's a centuries old shit that we're dealing with here. It is that we have been sort of taught to kind of actively take part in. Because I look back at my 20s and some of the things that happened there and some of the things that I like said yes to. Do you know what I mean? And I didn't even know they were wrong. It's like we're all sitting there now watching America's Next Top Model going, I cannot believe it. At the time, no one was saying I can't believe it. It was just, it was there. It was there. It was like we breathe the shit in, you know, like what's wrong with, you know, it was all about what is wrong with me.

45:41What can I change about myself, you know.

45:43Fearne Cotton: It's very hard for women to like themselves. Very, very hard. Do you like yourself, Bryony? Yeah, I really do. I do. I genuinely do now. But I have times where I spend a lot of time thinking about how other people, my baseline is, this is the truth. I wake up every morning and my brain, like the goblin king in my brain is like, Briony, everyone hates you. Everything you're supposed to do today is going to be a failure. and you let down everyone yesterday and you're going to let down everyone today. You're disappointing people. You're too much. You know, someone's crossed with you. That is literally what, the moment my eyes ping open and I'm like, oh my fucking God.

46:34And I immediately have to kind of go about disproving it. And how do you do that?

46:39Fearne Cotton: Because there'll be many people listening to this who'll wake up with that dread. Well, I just have to get up and out of the house as quickly as possible. Yeah. Because it's like, go outside. Running, walking. What are you doing? Yeah, I love running. I am an elite athlete, actually, Fern. How many marathons have you done now? Well, I've only done three. Only? Yeah. Three more than me. I'm going to do my fourth, hopefully, in a few weeks' time. That's going to be an underwear one that I'm doing with Adele Roberts for the Balbabe Fund. Love Adele. And we're doing it in our underwear because Adele wants to show off her stoma Audrey.

47:13love Audrey so uh so yeah so me Adele and Audrey anyway I get up I run and that is just emotional regulation for me but it's also isn't it it's like oh look the world is still going and people are getting on with their lives and I am not a piece of shit the world revolves around like my head wants me to think it's a piece of shit I'm a piece of shit the world revolves around but I'm just another person right and like no one is actually paying that much attention and even the people that I think are paying attention so even like Sean from Shropshire right he's actually

47:48Fearne Cotton: thinking about himself most of the time of course he is do you know what I mean like so just let's even his projection this you know fantastical figure we've created even his projection onto us is like you said about him you know yeah as we all know it's the most basic thing to say but happy people don't say shitty things we all know that people that feel good in their skin that are moving about their day just fine. They don't need to go and send someone a shitty comment online right into someone who's written a column in a paper. They don't need to do it. They're just happy with their lot. And I think people that feel a good level of baseline happiness also understand that they're not going to have the same opinions as everybody else, and that's okay.

48:33Fearne Cotton: That they can rub along with people that think differently to each other. And I think people that don't feel good need everybody to think the same as them for them to feel okay well that's also and that is kind of what people pleasing comes from as well on the flip side of that it's like one of the big things to you know that I have had to learn is that like my bestest bestest friend she always says to me Bryony I don't agree with you on that but do you think our friendship isn't like do you think we're not solid enough that our friendship can get through the fact that we don't agree on the same like I I don't know, like some sort of nuance or whatever, you know, and it's true.

49:13And one of the biggest things I've had to learn in recovery, you know, from OCD, from depression, from alcoholism, from all of it, from life, right, is that every human is, you know, like I have to respect that every human is big enough to deal with their own emotions. Like I am not here to caretake for someone else, you know, I am not responsible for how you feel yeah or how sean from shropshire feels or how my mom feels this is a big one yeah and that's hard and it's like and it is almost like here we go right it's almost you know when you hear people talk about delusions of grandeur yeah you're right i almost have the opposite which is delusions of inferiority and i think that i have the power to make people feel terrible to like ruin people's days.

50:03And I just fucking don't, you know? And my brain is like, you need to work hard to make people happy. I don't have that much power.

50:11Fearne Cotton: No, I used to be exactly the same as that. And that's something I've spent the last probably two years unpicking is I assumed that if I made even a sort of stranger or someone that I knew very loosely on the school run or something, if I had made them feel a little bit unseen or not valued or whatever, They would go around and I would have wrecked the rest of their week. And it's like, what the hell am I doing? That is mental, but also would absolutely take on the burden of the responsibility of everyone's well-being in my circle. And I think actually parenting has hugely helped me with that one because I'm learning on the job now and in real time, like we all are, that we cannot, if we try to keep our kids happy all the time, we're doing them a disservice.

50:57Fearne Cotton: Oh, my God. We're not preparing them for life. So now the trick for me has been using that same model in the rest of my life. So say if, you know, one of my kids says, like my son, I really want these golf clubs. I'm like, mate, we need to start a chart so you can start saving up to not buying them today. Oh, my friends have got me. They kick off or whatever happens. And to allow that and to go, he's upset. And that's OK. Yeah. He thinks I'm an absolute knob at the moment. That's OK. Or whatever. This is all fictitious. But you know what I'm saying? It's an example of. And then to take that into my friendship groups.

51:32Fearne Cotton: If I don't, if I can't commit to something that all my friends are doing or a work thing and to know that it's OK that they don't feel all right. That's been a game changer for me. Also, conflict is OK. It's fine. It's like how you deal with it. We don't want to go around like pissing people off on purpose like Olivia. but yeah but actually yeah difficult conversations are okay you know and it's fine and the world won't wobble on its fucking axis doesn't make you a terrible person no it just makes you a person just makes you a human it just makes you a person and i yeah like oh i don't have to make everyone happy no no no disordered eating messaging is all around us you can hardly leave your house or check your phone without seeing something about dieting, weight loss, or exercise.

52:22With all that pressure, it can be hard to recognize habits have become harmful or even an eating disorder.

52:27Fearne Cotton: If you're concerned you or a loved one might have an eating disorder, I want to introduce you to Equip. Equip is a fully virtual evidence-based eating disorder treatment program that helps patients achieve lasting recovery at home. Every Equip patient is matched with a multidisciplinary care team that includes a therapist, dietician, medical provider, and mentors. And you get a personalized treatment plan that's tailored to your unique goals and challenges. Equip treats patients of all ages and all eating disorder diagnoses. It's covered by insurance and there's no wait list. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get help.

53:08Visit equip.health to learn more. That's equip.health. hey it's page from giggly squad you already know once i'm in my jammies i'm in my final form and lately my last step before fully clocking out is the covergirl jammy lip sleeping mask i just twist apply with the mess-free applicator and let the dreamy lavender scent literally tuck me in by morning my lips feel smooth revitalized and baby soft while i'm doing absolutely nothing iconic behavior. So shop CoverGirl Jammy Lip Sleeping Mask at your nearest retailer now. Only from easy, breezy, beautiful CoverGirl. Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store.

53:55The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market.

54:18Fearne Cotton: Hey, I feel like it'd be remiss of me to not talk about body confidence because you have been such an advocate for being happy in your skin. And I think it's the biggest problem for most women still to this day that they just don't like their bodies if you said what you're not like about yourself yeah it would be a physical trait more than an emotional expression yeah all day long for most women not all women most women and you are like running these marathons in your underwear pushing this new attitude that you are so hoping catches fire that other women go I want to run in my underwear. I want to feel good in my skin.

55:00Fearne Cotton: What would you say to someone listening right now who's like, I hate my physical appearance. I hate being in my body. I would say, of course you do. Of course you hate being in your body because you have grown up in a society that has taught you to be. So first of all, I would say, don't shame yourself because for not being happy and content in your skin, right? Because this message is now like, you know, be happy in your skin. And it's like, well, hang on. Why should I feel happy in my skin? The way that you feel is actually appropriate, right? You have been conditioned to feel this way by society, by patriarchy, by all of these things.

55:39Okay. So that's what I would first say. And then secondly, I would say that you are a fucking miracle. You are a miracle. So this is what I want to say to you at home like we don't want to think about our biological parents like getting it on right but just for a moment just let's think about your mum and dad getting it on so like if i'll think about my i'll do it with my parents that would be good if that makes you feel a bit better yes please so 46 whatever years ago right if my mum and my dad they're like barry the the like barry white was playing or whatever and the milk trays out yeah milk trays out and but if the doorbell had like run and you know interrupted them or if more likely my dad had said something that annoyed my mother and they hadn't got it on I may not exist you wouldn't no exactly so like as we all know right biology lesson here and I'm sure I apologize if you've heard this is this sex education I'm going to give you some education okay so they get it on and my dad releases millions your dad releases millions of sperm into your mom's uh body because your mom's body is fucking amazing as is yours right your body is like i don't want any old sperm fertilizing the egg if there's an egg there by the way as well because as we know the majority of the calendar month there is no egg there right it releases acid to like kill the weak sperm like die die all of those versions of you gone right and then the remaining sperm they have to like do like an uphill iron man that's the equivalent of getting to the fallopian tubes where the eggs might or might not sit right and they have to like punch through like membranes that's like us having to go through walls it's like really hard lots of them get very fucking tired they die so those versions of you out the way, right?

57:41And then they get to the tubes, right? And half of the remaining ones are like, am I going to go left? Am I going to go right? Half of them take the wrong turning. All of those versions of you gone, right? So the remaining, the few sperm that remain, right? They get to the egg and the egg, the egg is surrounded by white blood cells who act like nightclub bouncers. And they're like, you ain't coming in. We don't want any old riffraff coming in. So eventually the sperm fertilizes the egg. And then as we know, that is no guarantee that, you know, it's going to like go the distance. You know, we know that miscarriage, all sorts of things happen.

58:22Right. And then, but say it does and you get to nine months or whatever. And that the day you're born, most doctors say is the most dangerous day of your life. Right. And then every day up until now, you have stayed alive. Yes. In your beautiful body. In your beautiful body. The universe wants you here. It wants you here and it wants you here looking like you. Not like Kim Kardashian. No disrespect to Kim Kardashian. Doesn't want you looking like, you know, Emily Ratajkowski. Again, no. You know, it wants you looking like you and we need you here, you know. And your body is miraculous. And I don't know about you as well.

59:01In my 40s, Fern, I, you know, I have lost friends in the last few years. Yeah, yeah. You know, suddenly from cancer from, you know, and we're not, this isn't a given. This isn't a fucking given, you know. Aging is a miracle. It's a privilege. And I just would say to you at home, and that isn't to shame you and be like, oh, aren't you lucky to be, again, I'm not like gratitude.

59:25Fearne Cotton: But it's the perspective shift you've just given us is what we need to hear. And yeah, and so I like don't care that you have cellulite or that your stomach is, you know, and I, the most important thing about you, you know, is not how much you weigh or some numbers, your dress size or whatever. And I think we really need to remember that, especially now we're in an age of weight loss jabs, GLP-1s, whatever. And diet culture is back. It is back, baby, you know. And I would just say that you are worth so much more than some numbers on some scales or whatever. And you deserve to exist, whatever your body looks like, whatever shape it is.

1:00:16And you deserve to get out there and enjoy life. And, you know, I'm a larger, you know, like, I don't know. I don't even know, like, what is large now? I weigh, like, I have no shame in saying I weigh, like, 210 pounds. I'm like, I don't know what that means. I don't even know what that means because I do stone. I don't know. Like, 14 and a half stone or something. Whatever. Like, I don't know because it's been a while since I weighed myself because I don't do that. No, nor do I. I only do it when, like, I have to go to the doctors or whatever. But, like, you know, but I run marathons. I'm really fit.

1:00:44You know, like, all of this stuff we've been taught, a lot of it is bollocks. And just question why you don't like yourself. Question why. Be curious. Why don't you like yourself?

1:00:55Fearne Cotton: Who's fucking told you? Because everyone, all humans are worthy. You know, even the ones who behave like absolute assholes, unfortunately. We only get one life and we may as well go out and enjoy it. And that is what I try to, that is where gratitude comes in for me. you know it's like because one day i won't be able to run you know and that actually might be like next week yeah i mean i can't my knee as i said my knee is hanging on by a thread there is no running i've said goodbye to running for now which is fine i've replaced it with other things it's all good but you're so right like we're never going to get like my daughter said something really profound yesterday morning she didn't mean to say anything you know how kids brains just flitting from big question to big question because they're figuring it all out and we were leaving the house to go on the school run she went hey mum she went we're never going to get this day again are we and I went no like this once this day's done it's the next one yeah and it's those simple things you know that 10 year old perspective of oh so this day is just it's now and then it's just it's gone and it's the simple stuff like that that we forget when we're worrying about oh my bum looks like this or my tits are too small or my hips are too big or whatever thing we've been conditioned to believe stops us actually just going out there and living our lives and enjoying it.

1:02:16Fearne Cotton: And I'm so grateful for everything you're doing around not only body image, this full spectrum of mental health and looking at how we can actually connect the dots with all of it and that it is possible to break free from all of these things. When you're in it, when I have bulimia, I thought, I'm fucked there's no way out of this I cannot see a way out of it or even when I was having panic attacks I definitely thought oh this is me for life I'm never going to be able to drive a car again this is going to go on forever I remember that you're going on a motorway I could go on a motorway I drive all the time on the motorway now like all of this stuff yeah I love it but all of this stuff is possible it's going to take discipline it's going to take a whole reframing of everything dismantling all old beliefs but it is it's possible it's totally possible you're sat here as a living proof of all of those i had a i had a thought the other day like i'm really lucky to be able to go and see my therapist like once a month and i had a moment where i was like wow and i and i feel this generally for just women generally who grew up in like the 80s the 90s the noughties who came of age like i'm like god it's a fuck like i was talking about this like watching america's next top model and like when people flash up magazine covers from the 90s and it's like get that bikini body or like circle of shame yeah or like please men from the you know from the bedroom to the boardroom and all of that kind of shit yeah and I was like wow it is it's amazing any of us is still alive given everything that we were like programmed to do and but I also think of that with like I think of how unwell I was as a child and how unwell I was in my teens and my 20s and into my 30s I didn't get sober till I was 37 you know and like i'm like wow look how far you've come babes you know look how far you've come like i'm sitting here i've written a book you know um i don't drink i don't drink i don't i don't drink i don't drink and take cocaine anymore it's amazing isn't that miraculous it is it's brilliant i wake up on a saturday morning this still doesn't get fucking old i wake up on a saturday morning at like 7.30 and I get up and I go for a run and then I go for like to like an AA meeting.

1:04:32I shouldn't say that because I'm not in my sleep or whatever. And then I like, you know, and I'll be like, oh, I'm just, you know, I like to go to bed at like 8.30 so I can read a book, you know, and I'm like, who am I? Who is this wholesome woman? It is I. It is I. Because, you know, like 10 years ago, I was literally like head down in a bag of cocaine like in crack. ends in South London about to lose everything. Yeah. About to lose everything.

1:05:00Fearne Cotton: Yeah. You can check. You've changed your whole life. Yeah. As your mate, it is just the most beautiful thing to see. The most beautiful thing. Before I ask you where your happy place is, we want to make a happy place playlist. What are you putting on it? Oh, I'll put on some Bad Bunny because I love, I love a bit of Bad Bunny. Which song shall we put on? Let's put on the one about the one where he sings about his auntie. Okay. Asking him about all of his girlfriends. What is it? Tietimi Pregunto. And I think I'm probably more, it's like that, oi, oi, on VIP, on VIP. It's like a banging beat and it makes me, and I'm like, yeah, I imagine that I'm one of Benito's girlfriends, but I'm actually more like his auntie.

1:05:50You're his auntie. But that's fine. this is it's for the aunties we you know big up the aunties aunties who love bad bunny i imagine lots of them listen to happy place i think so all the aunties do yeah hey where's your happy place my happy place is uh on a beach in cornwall with my daughter my husband beautiful yeah i love that it's always the sea or i'm gonna give you actually i'm more but more realistic it's running around my local common listening to bad bunny yeah which i can picture yeah it's so good you're in you're in the zone yeah you're in it yeah my happy place i'm really excited i did like book tickets to go and see bad bunny in lisbon oh i was like we're going we're going on a cultural trip to lisbon to see bad bunny yeah like i love that and i don't care and i'm not embarrassed i'm not embarrassed that as a 45 year old i'm a 45 year old woman who like where's leopard print yes i'm uh you know i'm just a fucking legend and i really fucking fancy

1:06:56Fearne Cotton: bad bunny and there we shall end this conversation briny gordon i love you i love you fern cotton thank you for having me oh god that was so great i mean obviously me and briny are gonna continue that chat away from the mic probably while stomping around a park somewhere putting the world to rights i love chatting to briny so that is a good question isn't it what would you do if you didn't care what anyone else thought i think that's such a fucking great question why don't you come over to instagram at happy place official and tell us tell us what you think all right i'm gonna be back in a few days with more chat about the little things that are making me and team happy place feel really good and what just feels a bit heavy right now but until then a massive thanks again to brilliant briny to the producer anushka tate at happy place studios and to you do whatever the hell you want

1:08:20hey it's page from giggly squad you already know once i'm in my jammies i'm in my final form and lately my last step before fully clocking out is the covergirl jammy lip sleeping mask i just twist apply with the mess-free applicator and let the dreamy lavender scent literally tuck me in. By morning, my lips feel smooth, revitalized, and baby soft while I'm doing absolutely nothing. Iconic behavior. So shop CoverGirl Jammy Lip Sleeping Mask at your nearest retailer now. Only from easy, breezy, beautiful CoverGirl. Okay, I take it back. You were right about Wild Fork. I knew it. What happened? I went to Wild Fork yesterday.

1:09:00Low prices, no shocking totals at checkout, no surprises. See, grocery shopping without the drama. Then I made an amazing meal with restaurant-quality ingredients that tasted so fresh. Wild Fork Blast Freezing makes a big difference. My family got a full nutritious meal, and I didn't feel stressed or rushed. I finally cracked the dinner code. Visit Wild Fork Meat and Seafood Market in-store

1:09:20Fearne Cotton: or at wildforkfoods.com and make dinner simple again. Will, come back! You're going to get soaked! At least I won't get soaked by high furniture prices. This week at Darwin, save 45 % to 65 % store-wide with special financing for 36 months. Plus, get a free golf umbrella with qualifying purchase. Spend just$34.99 and get$200 in marketplace or outlet lamps, rugs, and accessories absolutely free. It's like getting soaked with savings. Threw them on day at Darvin Furniture. Restrictions apply. See store for details.