Chris McCausland: “Dependence is exhausting!” Holidaying with a disability

0:00Fearne Cotton: Hello and welcome to the Happy Place Guide to Holidays brought to you by British Airways Holidays. I'm Fearne Cotton and today I'm chatting to Chris McCausland. I know it's a joke to go, the blind guy goes sightseeing, but I would rather find the enjoyment of other people seeing the things and going to these places. Still there's value in it and you're all out doing things and the fact that you're moving around and you're all doing that anyway. let's go and have some food yeah we're all out together i just find that there's less dependence in it even though you are depending on people to get you around you're not taking them away from something else to get them to do your thing i'd much rather do that to be honest when i'm on holiday the happy place guide to holidays is the series where we celebrate the joy of travel and how we can squeeze out every little drop of it when we're away now i wanted to chat to comedian Chris McCausland today because I'm a big fan of his attitude towards holidays.

0:58Fearne Cotton: He loves the proper break a holiday gives him just as long as it's on his terms. We talk about the challenges that Chris faces having lost his sight, what holiday feels like to him, what he wants out of a holiday and how he can properly try and switch off his busy brain. We talk about the sensory experiences of a new place, what a doing things holiday actually means to him and experiencing holiday magic through your kids joy. That joy that we get when we experience a holiday with younger people who are going through something for the first time, seeing something, hearing something, experience it for the first time.

1:39Fearne Cotton: And we also talk about how adventurous or not, he's willing to be with cuisine.

2:06Fearne Cotton: Chris, how lovely to have you on Happy Place. Nice one for having us on these, for anyone listening on audio, the hairiest chair I've ever sat on in my life. It is like being cuddled by a yeti. I can sit here and plait it. I know, isn't it lovely? I like a tactile chair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just going to sit here and stroke it for the next half an hour. Yeah, you absolutely knock yourself out. Go for it. It's so lovely to have you on. There's so many things I want to talk to you about today, but let's start with the obvious, which is happiness, because we talk about happiness a fair bit on this podcast, as well as mental health and life in general.

2:40Fearne Cotton: But I read whilst doing a bit of research for this podcast that you, or one of the happiest periods of your life was when you were at college being a maths geek specifically? I'd say, well, I mean, I would say that was probably me happiest time of education, right? Because I went to uni and I probably shouldn't have gone to uni. I'm glad I did because I got loads of things out of uni that weren't decent qualifications, you know, friends for life and things like that. But I think for someone who did that whole journey to the end of uni, that little period, I think, college, where you get rid of all the crap you don't like and you focus on the things you're good at, but you haven't yet narrowed it down to the point of monotony.

3:23Do you know what I mean? Like university drills it down to such a tedious level that it can make you fall out of love with the things that you thought you liked. So I think college was that kind of middle ground and I enjoyed the things I was learning. I wasn't being forced to learn things I didn't like. And also just you're becoming an adult and you're really getting out and socializing and it was a good time.

3:45Fearne Cotton: And you loved maths. Maths made sense to you? I'm a, yeah, I'm a logical geek, which, you know, worked well for me back then. Now, I mean, I would say logical maths geek, you know, very logical minded. I think my wife would say emotionally vacuous.

4:08Fearne Cotton: Can they not be mutually exclusive that you can have emotions unlike maths? No, I don't think so. No, I mean, what I saw as a positive has been flipped at some point along the journey of my life into quite a negative. Right. It seems to rear its head on every argument. I mean, good. I didn't realise it was that kind of podcast, but do you want to go down this rabbit hole? Don't want to bring your wife into it. She's not here to defend herself. Maths to stand-up is quite some journey. How did you go? Did you ever think that you would end up in stand-up or was it, okay I'm going to use maths to to further my career in in some way what was that tangent for you?

4:45Well I think most people who do stand-up don't get in there through any form of desire to to be on a stage in in the in the study that they do you know they kind of end up there because they like comedy or they they end up on stage doing a a new act thing or something like that you know they just kind of it's a dare or it's a it's a talent thing that they do and they just realize they they like it and i i'd say that you know being logically minded lends itself to a certain type of you know analytic brain that is good for comedy so it means that you can unpick things and you can look at things you can you can kind of take out all the all the all the the murkiness of life and just see situations for the the the logic that they are which sometimes that's how you shine a light on things and make them funnier you know so there's um there's lots of ways of being funny on stage but I think sometimes being a bit of a geek can help.

5:40Fearne Cotton: That's so interesting because I guess I saw the two subjects as totally disconnected but like you say if you can look at something that could be I don't know quite mundane a lot of the best comedy is everyday stuff that's relatable you can find the funny by breaking things down to a level of detail that people don't normally see and over analyzing things to the past the level where anybody else would bother to. That's a lot of the time where the comedy is. I love that. There is a real science behind it. I mean, I know there is because we've had a ton of comedians on this show. And of course, there's got to be logic.

6:14Fearne Cotton: There's got to be a science, a formula behind making people laugh. And it can be mathematical, but you're not going on stage just going, hey, what's the deal with X and Y? That's less funny. It's much less funny. I've read before that you've said losing your sight really drove you to be the sort of comedian that you want to be. In what way? How do you think it's informed how you perform your comedy? I mean, I don't know if it's specifically that I want to be, but it's certainly pushed me down an avenue of comedy where I've landed now. And it's not an avenue of comedy that's unique to me. So I don't really, I don't compare shows.

6:56I've never, when I was doing the clubs, I never compared shows. when I do my sets I don't really go in and actively engage with the audience if something happens I will do but I don't talk to the audience I very much stick to things that I've written ideas that I've got and I'm not one of those comedians that relies on interacting with the audience for comedy but there are other comedians that do what I do but they might have done it through like an artistic choice to just be one of those comedians that doesn't really bother with the audience Milton Jones for example you know does his thing he's brilliant at it doesn't really go into the audience and talk to them um that's an that's an artistic choice he's made for the kind of comedy he likes I've ended up there kind of through circumstance maybe more than um more than you know artistic choice but um but still it's a it's a place I like I like being you know means I have to write a bit more maybe yeah but um but but still it's a skill that I have never really been able to flex my muscles on is that ability to just spend 20 minutes going into an audience and

8:03Fearne Cotton: interrogating them yeah and but that's informed your your comedy to a place where you know you that's that feels good to you that feels right to you to get out on stage you know you're set you deliver it you get the reaction that you want and if things happen in the room you can react to them but um but it is a lot more difficult to kind of actively uh go into the audience and and um you know for want of a better word pick on them um or um you know talk to them because all the against members can go quiet and you need to read the body language you need to be able to see who they're sat next to you know what I suppose on a basic level what they're wearing you know and things like that so um yeah it's not something I it's not something I've ever done You grew up in Liverpool and you lost your sight gradually as a young person.

8:47Fearne Cotton: Obviously, being a young person growing up, it's hard enough as it is the challenges of being a teenager, trying to find your tribe, work out how you fit into the world and what you like, what you don't like. How was navigating that alongside gradually losing your sight, having a big challenge like that as a young person? I mean, it's one of those things that there's a lot of denial along the way because you never notice it happening. So when you're losing your side so gradually that you can't, it's the frog in the water. You don't notice it happening. And so there's never a time when you have to come to terms with it.

9:24So you always think you can do things that you used to be able to until something happens that makes you realize that maybe you can't anymore. or it's usually incident or injury or close shave or something like that, you know, that you nearly get hit by a bus and you're like, maybe I shouldn't be, you know, maybe I should be using pelican crossings all the time now rather than just cutting across at junctions or whatever. There's a lot of denial along the way. But, you know, growing up in Liverpool as a kid, I was lucky that, you know, especially compared to kids these days, I grew up at a time where you just played on the streets.

9:59I had a really good close group of mates and we did everything outside, you know, very normal childhood. And my eyesight was never an issue in terms of having those relationships with friends. It was an issue in terms of things that became more difficult playing football and when, as it got to dusk and dark and computer games became more difficult as the years went on. But I was lucky I had a really good close group of friends and my best mate from when I was four years old, three or four years old is, you know, we're still the best of mates now. So, you You know, we went through the football in the streets to the computer games, to the discovery of music, metal, concerts, clubs, you know what I mean?

10:43Everything together. So I was, you know, very lucky that, you know, I had a good mate like that to go through it all with.

10:51Fearne Cotton: Yeah, that's the most important thing is having those people that, you know, you've got that bond with. My old schoolmates are still my best mates today. and it's like you're almost family at that point when you've been through so much with a group of people and especially when you've got you know an extraordinary career that takes you to interesting places and is I'm imagining different to the your schoolmates it's important to have that connection to your childhood and to the person you were before all of the the fame and the success and all the exciting things yeah and the way I look at it as well as you know I lost my sight over 20 the years and he was you know my mate all the way through that but he's an Everton fan so I'm not really sure which one of us is worse off so I think maybe I uh maybe maybe I did get the um the better end of the deal on that one oh that's so great I'm taking it you're a Liverpool fan yeah I know you don't like football but you know I do not I'm not interested at all but I can imagine that was very funny it's still funny even as someone that's clueless about football it's Still funny.

11:57Fearne Cotton: No, it's a beautiful thing. I think that friendship is great. Does he come to your shows? Is he heckling you? What's he doing? No, I tell him to keep his mouth shut. But I've got a hair in my mouth. I think it's come off this chair. It has. You're going to get a furball, Chris. I think I've like touched the chair and touched my mouth. What's that podcast like with Fer and Cotton? Do you know what? You get a hairy mouse. It's a bonus prize for any guests that I have here with me. Yeah, no, he's very proud of everything that's come along But you ask my mates I mean, my mates are like, you know, all my mates that I've picked up along the way You know, they will say the same thing about my comedy They are gobsmacked because I was never funny in the pub What?

12:38That's what they'll say God, he was never funny in the pub

12:41Fearne Cotton: What? I'm imagining that you've been like class joker And then, you know No, no, I mean, I'd like to think I was And my school reports would indicate that I was It doesn't necessarily mean there was any level of quality. That's been honed over the years. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's been learned professionally. One of the biggest joys was you on Strictly. I mean, it was just such a wonderful moment and just a beautiful thing for every viewer who loves that show to watch you really, really thrive. But I know that it was fucking terrifying to be part of and you were shit scared to do it. Absolutely. the most terrifying thing I've ever done in my life.

13:23And I said no a few times because it was insane to me that they even thought it was possible. And yeah, I didn't even know what they were asking me to do. You can't describe it. So it was so unknown. And I'd just finished the tour as well. Like I'd done a tour, finished at the Shepherd's Bush Empire. I'd built that audience up with comedy shows. And I just thought if this is a disaster, because it could be, You know, not like goofy dancing, but like literally failing on the telly in, you know, halfway through the dance, you know, missing a move and ending up in a heap on the floor or whatever.

14:00Who wants to go and watch a comedian they feel sorry for? It runs the risk of eliciting sympathy from the people watching. So I thought it was risky, insane, but it's very, very slowly. Everybody who's meant to be in my corner professionally started ganging up on me.

14:21Fearne Cotton: Just what you want. And in the end, it just became easier to shut them all up and agree to do it. I love it. I love it. I was reading about the process for you of not only the rehearsing for the show, but then switching from that to the live audience show was a huge deal. And things that, you know, the other contestants wouldn't have to consider. For instance, when you're rehearsing, you're in a really nice quiet room and you can hear your partner's footsteps and maybe instructions. But when you're in that live studio, for anyone that's not been to a recording of a live show, it is loud. It's loud, yeah.

14:56Fearne Cotton: A huge audience. You've got, you know, the team is immense. It's a very noisy environment. How discombobulating was that on the day? There's 500 people in our studio, which in the world of entertainment is not a lot, but those 500 people are split down two sides. So they hit you from both sides of the studio and they are louder than a 2 ,000-seater theatre. A 2 ,000-seater theatre will laugh, they'll applaud, they'll cheer. These 500 people scream. Yes. It's like, I mean, the closest I can kind of, I mean, not to equate myself to this in any way, but it's almost like you see the Beatles videos from back in the 60s and they just lose their mind.

15:36And this noise of these 500 people either side of you and then the volume of the band. I mean, I can hear all of that. But in essence, when it comes to Diane, it makes me deaf as well to her. So I couldn't see her, couldn't hear her. really you're doing it from really precise learning of the moves and there's no visual point of reference turn to face the judges to walk down to do the dance down the thing that way you've got to learn all the angles and all these little things that people would have just had an easy reference point for we had to spend such a large amount of time disproportionate amount of time on these small little details but Diane is you know I mean I'll tell you this I don't say this to her, but she's a magician, really.

16:25She's so wonderful. I mean, to get this out of me, she's magnificent. I mean, I say that to you. To her, I say to her, do you know what? You tried this seven times and you failed every time. I turn up first, go bang. I love it.

16:41Fearne Cotton: Did you end up actually really loving it, like getting a kick out of it? I mean, it was terrifying. It was terrifying. And up and down. Not just like you don't just get better at it. Like week five, I was the second most nervous I've been. It depends what the dance is and how confident you feel about it. It was the most remarkable thing I've been a part of. How cool. Probably the proudest thing I've ever been of anything we've ever done to maintain that performance. And as much as me and Diane poke each other with a stick and take the mickey out of each other, she's magnificent. And we just absolutely trusted each other and got on from the beginning, you know.

17:18Fearne Cotton: I love that. What a dynamic duo. So beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was great. Obviously, you know, you're absolutely thriving at work. You've done a massive tour this year and, you know, you're just constantly taking part in brilliant things, cool projects and thriving. Like your career is just up and up and up and up and up. But, Chris, are you good at resting? I guess that's a no. Depends. Depends, you know. I get bored very quickly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, this is going to be the most biased podcast, really, when it comes to the idea of resting, because I think that you will find that neurodiversity is massively overrepresented in the world of comedy and TV and entertainment.

18:07We're all people that just can't hold down nine to five jobs. Yeah, can't sit still. You're going to be talking to... I mean, your guest list must have an 85 % to 90 % ADHD rate. I think you're right.

18:20Fearne Cotton: I think you're absolutely right. Me included, although not diagnosed, but all the pointers are there. I was diagnosed over 10 years ago. So do I enjoy resting? Theoretically, yeah. But I get bored really, really quick. Yeah, I hear you. Just, yeah, I mean, I'm not good. I've actually got a day off tomorrow and I've not had a day off in, I couldn't tell you, weeks. And I'm already panicking about what am I going to do? Because I can't not do. I find relaxing hard. But one place or one situation that helps me to do a lot less, and that's mainly because I'll leave my phone in a drawer, is going on holiday.

18:54Fearne Cotton: I do love going on holiday. How do you feel about holidays? Do you like them? Yeah. Yeah. It depends. It depends what the holiday is. I mean, I cope much better with a doing things holiday than a not doing things holiday. I find the idea of sitting there trying to rest more exhausting sometimes than doing things. Yeah. Because I sit there and my brain just kicks off. I can rest my body, but my brain doesn't get the memo. No, mine doesn't. My brain is a chatty Cathy. It doesn't stop talking. Would like, I don't know, audiobooks, is that a good thing to help you relax? It is, but the good thing with audiobooks, and I listen to a lot of audiobooks, so I'm a bit of an audiobook junkie, is that they are amazing for multitasking.

19:42I tend not to just sit there and listen to them. I tend to put them on when I'm doing other things, when I'm getting ready in the morning, if I'm travelling, if I'm washing the dishes, whatever it is, audiobooks, the radio, audiobooks, they are something that goes along with that. but to just sit there and listen without doing anything, I can do it for maybe 20 minutes. Yeah. And then I'm up and I'm about and I'm like, what can I do? I'm sat down too long.

20:12Fearne Cotton: What's your flavour of choice? Are you going fiction, non-fiction, true crime? Like what's the flavour? Well, I've been through a lot of different, I like a bit of sci-fi. Yeah. But it's got to be, I mean, this is really niche and geeky. It's got to be sci-fi set in this world now where something mad happens that I can't be doing with planets 3 ,000 years in the future and intergalactic ships and all that kind of nonsense. It's got to be something mad. Think back to the future. Something mad crazy happens to a guy now in this world. Yeah. And I like a bit of that. I did go through a big phase.

20:47I listened to a lot of detective stuff, but I find that often the twist annoys me. Right. And I've landed now on kind of undercover cop MI5 agent goes rogue kind of things. Okay, nice. Because I find that I'm just living this ulterior life now through, you know, through a guy with a high body count that just goes around, you know. I find there's no twists. You kind of know the bad guys at the beginning and it's just how they get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're killing everyone. I like that.

21:15Fearne Cotton: Is that going to be your side hustle, MI5 agent? Absolutely. Why not? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not? Well, you've done a hell of a lot of work to help raise awareness for disability. And that is something that is always needed. When you go on holiday, what sorts of challenges are you facing? There are obviously a lot. One of my great friends, Sophie Morgan, has done a hell of a lot of work in helping making travel easier for wheelchair users. But that's just like one problem, one issue that is out there. What challenges do you face and how are you navigating them when you're away? I think a problem that most people with disabilities will probably say they face is that dependence is exhausting.

21:58Yeah. You know, so to have to depend on people is sometimes more mentally draining and fatiguing and depleting than trying, than being able to do things yourself, finding ways to get things done yourself. and when you're at home you have all these different ways mechanisms you know life hacks you have everything the way you need it everything the way you want it and you can you can kind of live your life 95 of the the way really with things you've figured out yourself when you go away you have to depend a lot more on other people and um and that's that's the uh that's the draining thing about it you know so i find that if i'm going away and it's one of these sit around doing nothing holidays you feel that when you want to get up and do something you know you are taken away from somebody else's rest right whether it's your wife whether it's a friend whether it's whatever i need to go to the toilet i need to i want to get out of the sun i want to um i want to go and get a drink yeah you've got to you've got to take somebody else out of their rest because you depend on them to get around and do things.

23:08Whereas when you're on a doing things holiday, you're all doing things anyway.

23:13Fearne Cotton: So what would be your dream doing holiday? What would that be? Would it be an activity? Where are you imagining? Well, I mean, ironically, I would much rather go sightseeing than sit on a beach and be left with my own thoughts. I love that. Yeah, because, I mean, it's a little bit like, I mean, there's fun in, you know, you must watch the film with your kids that you've seen a lot of times in the past. You get enjoyment out of them watching the film. Yeah. So, you know, you watch Flight of the Navigator from the 80s or something. You know the film. And then you get to watch it with your kid and they enjoy it.

23:55And there's a real joy in getting them, in them enjoying the film. And I get that sightseeing, really. I know it's a joke to go, the blind guy goes sightseeing. But I would rather, you know, I find the enjoyment of other people seeing the things and going to these places, you know, still there's value in it. You know, and you're all out doing things. And the fact that you're moving around and you're, I don't need to, you know, you're all doing that anyway. Let's go and have some food. Yeah, we're all out together. and I just find that there's less dependence in it even though you are depending on people to get you around you're not taking them away from something else to get them to do your thing you're all in the same boat and doing the same thing so I'd much rather do that to be honest when I'm on holiday theme parks are good, my daughter loves theme parks so you're all going from ride to ride having food and stuff like that so these I find even though you're moving around and they are exhausting physically, they are less mentally fatiguing.

25:00Fearne Cotton: Yeah, I get it. And I guess also, say you go sightseeing to a city, a place where there's a ton of things to do. You've got a sensory experience anyway that's different to home, whether it's climate or the smells and the sounds of a place. How much enjoyment do you get from that side of it? Yeah, I mean, let's be honest. No one's going anywhere to smell it, but yeah. I don't know. So if you're like someone that does really great barbecued food, I'm here for it. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what? Let's go to Chicago. I believe it smells fantastic. It smells of petrol. Yeah, I mean, you do. You soak up a place.

25:41I mean, sometimes these places can be really, really loud and overbearing. Yeah. I mean, much in the same way that when I lost my sight, I found nightclubs to be overbearing because you can't have conversations when the music's thumping. Give me a pub any day of the week. Sometimes, you know, you go to places that are just so, there's so much happening that the basics become harder, you know, chatting to the people you're with and so on. So, you know, I like things happening, but not too much.

26:12Fearne Cotton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That overstimulation can be disorientating. Yeah. Or just, you know, you don't want an hour's worth of normal conversation with the people you're with to leave you with no voice. You don't have to be shouting over the top of things too much. So, yeah, I like, you know, going on a good doing things holiday, but keep the volume down a little bit. Yeah. If you think back to great holidays you've been on, can you think of like a magical holiday moment? And if so, what would spring to mind? So, I mean, I mentioned theme parks there. And my daughter just absolutely loves the adrenaline of theme parks.

26:52And, I mean, I was never, this is weird, I was never into the fairground rides. When I could see, the sight of them terrified me. Roller coasters, anything that drops and whatever. Yeah. Oh, I couldn't queue for them. Since I stopped me out of the sea, they don't bother me that much. I can get on anything really without knowing what it looks like.

27:13Fearne Cotton: Yeah. And it really doesn't bother me, which is weird. You would have thought it would have been the other way around. But we were, you know, we've been to Euro Disney, Disneyland Paris a couple of times. and that Tower of Terror. Oh, God. The one with the lift that goes up to the top and drops. I think that is probably as terrifying as it is the perfect fairground ride because a lot of fairground rides are, you know, fabricated things. They're roller coasters. They're not real. Whereas a lift dropping is a real fear that everybody has and it plays on that. And I remember the first time we went on that when we daughter, she was only young.

27:50She must have been about five or six. Oh, my God. And she absolutely loved it. And we went, we must have gone on it twice a day. She loved it. Me and her on that. And she'd scream, my legs would shoot in the air when it dropped down. There was a lady next to my daughter on one of them. She said to my daughter, she said, your daddy screams a lot, doesn't he? And so just the joy of my daughter on that ride and going on it. And then when we went back a year or two ago, we went back and we went on it again. And honestly, the joy didn't decrease. Yeah, so great. So I would say as kind of, you know, as kind of commercial as it is, going on that Tower of Terror with my daughter and just the joy, you know, the anticipation of the drop is magical.

28:42Fearne Cotton: It's so great. It's so like the feeling of being absolutely petrified or excited. They're very close together. I took my kids on this water ride where you sit in a big giant inflatable, it's kind of like a big boat really. And you've all got your own little compartment. And I didn't know what we were in store for. I thought it was like a lazy river. It was the opposite of a lazy river. And we shot down this bloody massive tube at such speed. It was almost vertical. And my daughter, I thought she was crying. So we got to the bottom and I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. And she went, can we do it again?

29:16Fearne Cotton: And I was like, okay, right, I get it. We're like excitement and fear. They're very, very close together. Well, the first time we went to Disney Paris and we were on the Aerosmith ride, which is inside. It's in the dark inside. We didn't really know what it was. My daughter, I mean, she must have been five or six. And we went on and we didn't realize how big it was. And we'd strapped in and the things come over you. But my wife sat next to my daughter, but she can't see her because the things. Oh, yeah, the big neck things. They block your sides view. And we didn't realise how big this roller coaster was.

29:52And me daughter had never been on anything like that before. And me wife spent the whole thing terrified that we'd scarred her for life or that she'd flown out halfway around. She didn't even know she was still there. She couldn't reach her. And so when we got to the end, me wife was shell-shocked and we got off. And me daughter was like, oh, my God, can we do it again?

30:10Fearne Cotton: That was amazing. And we tried to do it again. And then the guy on the thing said, oh, no, she's too small. Oh, God. And we were like, how did she get rid of it? So terrible parents. Some very loose parenting going on there. So we went on it the first time. We didn't go out again on that trip. But she then, we realised, oh, God, this kid's going to be able to go on anything. Yeah, exactly. When she's older. She's got the bug. She's got the bug. When you go away with your family, what is the one thing you do as a family to take holidays seriously? to really make sure that it is either magical or that you properly get time out from everyday life?

30:48I suppose, you know, try and plan. Like if it's a holiday that we go to, just the three of us, try and plan some things to do because we will, we're not of the right mindset to wake up and figure things out on the day. We'll go around in circles. We'll realise that things are sold out or things aren't, you know, fully booked or whatever. We'll argue, you should have done that. What do you mean I should have done that?

31:13Fearne Cotton: Good classic holiday argument. Yeah. I booked the flights. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, yeah, just try and give a little bit of, just try and plan a few things. Don't go overboard because you'll plan too much, but just one thing a day. And if you've got one thing a day to build a day around, then you'll have a good holiday. Yeah, I agree. If you try and book five things a day, oh, it's too much and you'll end up resenting some of the things and not enjoying them. But if you can just have one good thing to do a day, or for most of the days than everything else that happened around it. What about local cuisine?

31:47Fearne Cotton: Are you kind of good with trying new foods and trying new things? Is that a part of your holiday experience you like? I would say within reason. Right. I will try any type of burger that you give me. How exotic of you, Chris. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, so I would, you see, you grow up in this country and you grow up, you know, believing that you like exotic food because growing up in the 80s in Liverpool, you know, there was nothing. The chippy, you had a sausage dinner. And then you kind of, as an adult, you know, there's more restaurants, there's more availability, access to restaurants, but you get into Indian food, Chinese food, and you grow up thinking that you like Chinese food.

32:33But you like Chinese food in England.

32:35Fearne Cotton: You like English Chinese food. It's very different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't think I would last five minutes eating Chinese Chinese food in China or whatever. But, you know, going to Singapore and I had a soup and there was tentacles in it. Oh, no, no, no. Couldn't touch it? No, no. Like antennas. Not tentacles. Antennas. Antennas? Antennas, like, off a thing. No. I can't get them. I can't get them psychologically, can't get them in my mouth. No, same. This is the opposite of being able to see the fairground rides. Not being able to see the food, I think, is much worse in my head. The texture of a tentacle or an antenna is number one.

33:17No, I'm not being able to see it. The vision in my head, I would say, is probably a lot worse than what it is. It might not be. In the thing. But, you know, we talked about how well I did on Strictly. I don't think I would last in the jungle No I would either be the worst person That's ever been on it Or I would be kept in it Because I just can't get the food Past my mouth without crying

33:41Fearne Cotton: It's the worst bit I actually just interviewed Ruby Wax The other day Yeah And she was like Yeah I'm not bothered about that You can put anything in my gob Like literally She will eat anything Yeah Doesn't give a toss Is there something wrong with her? No fear Not having that? No no no fear She was eating it all All sorts Oh god I mean, I just can't do it. I can't. Gagging thinking about it. Adventurous to a point. I like to explore local cuisine, but as long as it's not got mad stuff in it. No, no mad stuff allowed. Absolutely not. Nothing with heads. Don't give me food with heads on it. No, we don't want eyes and antennas and no, teeth.

34:20Nothing that looks the same as it did when it was alive. Make a bit of effort.

34:28Fearne Cotton: we had the delicious sophie ellis bexter come and chat a while ago about holidays she's got five sons which is absolutely wild you know she's booking these holidays where she's got to keep five sons occupied who range from i think something like seven to 23 or something so she's got to cater for all these different ages and and she's done some brilliant holidays with Japan was her absolute favourite. You've got a daughter who's 12, am I right? Yeah, obsessed with Japan. Obsessed with Japan. Have you done Japan? So, my wife and daughter have, because my daughter's friend is Japanese. And so they went as a little gang, the two mums and the kids.

35:08How cool. But she's one of these kids now that's just obsessed. The culture of Japan is massive with kids. Yes. The animation and stuff and the music, you know. So, they had a fantastic time. I'd love to go at some point.

35:21Fearne Cotton: Yeah, I want to go so bad. My son is the same. My son's 13 and he is absolutely in love with the idea of going there at some point. It feels like a magical place, doesn't it? Because it seems to straddle this line between kind of old, old traditions and mystic ways. Yes. We'd like talking toilets. Exactly. The most futuristic out there. And robots and things. It's so great. Right. You obviously mentioned that your daughter loves theme parks and you know that's a guaranteed way to make sure that she has the most magical time when you're away. What else over the years have you implemented to make sure she has a great trip?

35:57Fearne Cotton: Because obviously she's 12 now, so a little bit more independent. My son, you know, similar age that you know that they're going to be OK on a fly or they're going to have a great time when you get to the beach, whatever it is. But when they're smaller, it's perhaps a lot harder. What do you think has helped you have really good family trips with your daughter? Including her in the decisions. Don't just tell her what she's doing. Yeah. You know, and I think that kids like to be involved in, you know, she doesn't really want too many surprises. No. So it's about, you know, including her in what do you want to do and would you like to go here, what do you reckon of this?

36:36Because ultimately it's while you're going, isn't it? Yeah. And so you want to kind of, there's a balance between pushing them out of their comfort zone and encouraging them to do things that maybe they find a little bit scary or a little bit new, but also letting them be in charge of their own destiny, you know, really. Yeah, too right. Yeah, I think if 80 % they can know is going on and coming up and then 20 % is you trying to encourage them to do new things, then that's a good balance, isn't it?

37:11Fearne Cotton: Yeah, that's a really good plan. I like that a lot. What do you think the best decision you've ever made on holiday is? The best decision I've ever made on a holiday was when I was in probably in New York with my wife. And it was during February during a snowstorm. And the snow was feet deep, feet deep. And I'd turned up with extremely semi-permeable trainer juice. And I went into a department store and I bought a pair of insulated boots. How practical of you. and I left with my soggy cold trainers in a bag and new socks and new shoes. I felt like a new man. There's been no decision I've ever made in my life that has rejuvenated me so much and salvaged a holiday because I honestly, I felt like I was in platoon.

38:05Fearne Cotton: I was like, just leave me alone. Just go on without me. Just... In the middle of Times Square. Just go on without me. I love it but New York cold is not England cold it's a different cold it was in my toes it was in my feet if your feet are miserable your head is miserable I agree I agree and so just you know if you realise at any point in the holiday you haven't got the right footwear go and sort it out it'll change your life treat yourself to a new pair of shoes my friend Chris where would you say your holiday happy place is? I mean just anywhere my daughter's having fun I suppose you know i i i know there's a whole world of great places out there i i find the english speaking places are better for me because of the the communication becomes easier it becomes less exhausting so places i can communicate better are really good for me you'd be amazed how much communication you do in foreign speaking countries that is visual yes and how much of it you you get away with pointing and hand gestures and miming things um so i i i find that you know a place with good english for me it just takes a lot of the stress off it but i'm one of these people you know i i i grew up loving america you know all of the films the music i love is american back in the 90s when everyone was going through the the love affair with brit pop my heart was in seattle with Nirvana and Soundgarden and Pearl Jam.

39:36Yes. And so, you know, as crazy as the politics is in the world at the minute, I love the idea of America. And so I'd like to go and experience more of it maybe.

39:50Fearne Cotton: Yeah. Maybe one day I'll make it as far as Australia. I've only ever made it as far as Singapore up to this point in my life. And both times I've made it that far, I've just thought to myself, I can't believe there's a place that's further. Another long haul flight after that. It's a nightmare. I once did Fiji, which is, you know, you do Singapore, Sydney, then another flight, and there was a big layover as well. It was like two days of travelling. It's crazy. It's nuts. When they do that, you know, when they do that plane, it just kind of shoots in the air and lets the world go around and it goes into space and drops back down.

40:27You know what I mean? Like some kind of intergalactic slingshot around the moon and back down in half an hour. That'll be good.

40:34Fearne Cotton: They'll do it one day. You'll get there. You'll get to Australia. Well, Chris, it's been such a joy having you on Happy Place. I hope that you get a break from work soon and you can have a doing holiday for you and your family that involves the odd rollercoaster or two and that you get a nice break. Thank you so much, Chris. Good. I'm going to go and try and remove the hairs that have ended up in my mouth. Do you want a lint roll for your tongue? Yeti chair. Some sellotape. I'm going to have to sell the tape with tongue. Cheers, man. That's so good. Thank you, Chris. What a brilliant human being Chris is.

41:10Fearne Cotton: All of us in the Happy Place studio afterwards were like, what a big-hearted man. What a spirited human with such a beautiful outlook on life. It was honestly like his joy was contagious. Getting to hang out with Chris and just be in his presence. He's just such a good energy to be around. We are all massive Chris McCausland fans, that is for sure. If you want help taking your holidays more seriously, then you know where to go. British Airways Holidays allows you to book with a low deposit and pay off your holiday in flexible instalments. They offer a 24-hour holiday helpline and all holidays include a generous baggage allowance per person.

41:49Fearne Cotton: What's more, all British Airways Holidays are at all protected, so they've got you well and truly covered. I want to say a massive thanks to Chris, what a legend, to British Airways Holidays for making today's conversation happen, and to you, because you are ace.

42:26Fearne Cotton: Happy Place is researched by me, Fern Cotton. The producer is Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios with studio engineering by Basil Oxtoby.