Chris Olsen: “Addiction is so complicated because there’s no right answer”

0:00Before we start, this episode contains some chat you might find difficult to hear, so do check the show notes for more details. Hello everyone, I'm Fearne Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that looks back to help us move forward. Today I'm talking to Chris Olsen. It's easy to talk about the recovery. It's easy to talk about, I mean not easy, but it's cathartic to talk about the fact that I had an intervention and I got through it and then I went to rehab and that was crazy. it's way harder to talk about why I got there in the first place, because that's the like really messy part. But that is the honest part.

0:39And there have been so many, I mean, all of it's the honest part, but that you need that part to get to where we are now. This was a really exciting chat because I got to go all the way to New York for it. Our friends at Amazon Music got Happy Place, a huge billboard in Times Square, which I can't believe happened. What the hell? That was such a weird moment. So whilst I was there, I met up with TikToker Chris Olson. We talk about a lot in this chat. We talk about the separation between Chris in his videos and who he is in private. And we dive deeply into his memoir, I Think My Therapist Hates Me.

1:13It was one of the most raw books ever. He goes into such detail about his life, which I massively appreciate. Because I think for other people dealing with the issues that he's dealt with, whether it be alcoholism and addiction within your family and also to do with yourself. I think it will be very, very helpful. So I'm appreciative of his honesty.

1:40Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

2:17You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com. slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

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4:14Chris Olsen, how lovely to see you. It's so lovely to see you. We, this week, have something in common because yesterday, or I think it was yesterday, we both had billboards on Times Square. No big deal. Oh, it happens. It happens. It happens. I was just walking through there and I looked up. There it was. Not again. So embarrassing. I will say yours was on a much faster rotation than mine. Yours was like every three minutes. Mine was like 20. I was stood there going, can I see it again, please? It was a 20 minute cycle. Right, right. But what a moment. I mean, it's kind of unbelievable. But also, you never really, that's not something I would ever really imagine would be like, oh, I can't wait until I get my first like Times Square billboard.

4:59That feels just so out of the realm of possibility. and it just feels so like um i don't know you walk through times square just thinking like wow this is like everyone who i'm seeing up here is like living a different life oh oprah was up there yesterday christy turlington all the broadway people like oh my god and that's like people i grew up idolizing and then suddenly you're up there and you're like it's the imposter syndrome of it all i'm like oh well definitely i mean they're they're all up here because they definitely worked there and then here i am and like i'm i'm excited but i i probably shouldn't be up there like i there you know i don't know what's going on but it was very exciting it's a moment and it's for your brilliant book which i brought here great front cover therapist hates me it's such a great thank you i love it thank you i like had the idea for the cover and the title before i really like got to writing i kind of like knew what it would look like in my head because i think i mean i had never written a book before so but i'd seen plenty of books read plenty of books so like when envisioning it i could see it on a shelf i just didn't know what was inside yeah that's the hard bit but you did it i did it and we're gonna get onto this book in a moment because there is a lot to talk about it's a really i'm imagining relieving book because it is unbelievably honest and this book i'm sure will take you all over the place talking about it and different subject matters you're ironically going to london tomorrow tomorrow like less than 24 hours i could have literally seen you there i know um and maybe we will maybe we will plan yeah i read it in one go oh my gosh i'm a book nerd i read it in one go one sitting which I think helps you to sort of digest the real person because even you say in this book like people know you from your antics online on TikTok but you say you can look back at some of those videos and you don't see yourself in those videos necessarily yeah and not in a way that I'm like looking back and I it feels very harrowing I know the way that that specific moment is written in the book.

7:11It does feel very like I'm having a meta moment. And every time I look at my phone, I'm like, who am I? I don't think it's necessarily as it doesn't always come to me in that way. But I do think there is a bit of a separation naturally with someone's, anyone who's working in entertainment or who has a public persona. There's just a separation between that and then who you are when you're home alone, or when you're just with your friends. But I don't know if I could necessarily really harness who I am in those ways and then put that online if I wanted to. It's like, it just is what naturally comes out too.

7:52So I don't think it's necessarily inauthentic, but I think, yeah, it is also wild to have quite a catalog of videos of me over the past few years and looking at them and wondering, like or knowing what else was going on in my life but seeing that and thinking like okay well it does appear that things would be great in for these certain eras where I knew that in the back in the background there were so many other things going on which I think is so important for all of us to remember even people that are online in a big way with a big following that it is a lot of the time a load of old shit. Like we still can fall into the trap of looking on Instagram, TikTok, whatever, Facebook and going, everyone's nailing it and having the most brilliant time.

8:40But you've just said that yourself. I'm sure in some of the parts of your life where people would assume you're nailing it, you've got millions of followers, hundreds of thousands of likes and people wanting to know what you're up to. But actually on a very personal level, totally different story. And I think we culturally forget that again and again. It's the way social media is designed is for us to look at these things and just kind of like take it as is. Social media is also like inherently unnatural. Like we're not supposed to necessarily see that many people. No, we're definitely not. In our lives.

9:12I don't think we're meant to see that much information. No. You know, if you think 100 years ago, you kind of knew what was going on like in your village. And now we know what's going on. Anywhere you want to look, you can. It's terrifying. Yeah. And we're fed information and they can like control the algorithm sometimes. Like it, everything is way more curated than I think we take it. Because when you're kind of like scrolling, you're just assuming you're seeing the truth. Truth. And a lot of the time, and there is truth to like so much of what I share. That is just, it's the truth of whatever that moment I'm sharing is.

9:52And then maybe something else happened that day or something else was happening that month. And I'm just like not sharing that part. I mean, I was writing this book for like two years, a year and a half, two years. And I wasn't sharing the process of that during that time. But like it was, it was not cathartic to write it. it's cathartic now that it's out and like I'm talking about it with people and I see how people have been helped by it or they feel seen in certain ways. But during it, I was just like, oh, I've just decided to dig up so much stuff within my life that I thought I had processed, but maybe I hadn't fully gone there.

10:34I didn't think about all the thoughts I was having during that time and all of that stuff so um yeah it's it's not that necessarily social media i i see it as like that is a completely different person but there's also some protection in creating a character of yourself in some ways and do you think sort of feeling like you're reaping the benefits of it now rather than during the writing process is some of that to do with right you've laid it all bare everyone knows your demons your past things that you're ashamed about embarrassed about we've all got these you know it's not just you all everyone out there sits there going oh god I shouldn't have 10 years ago like you're waking up at two in the morning I shouldn't have said that thing you know we've all got that level of shame and embarrassment in varying degrees but once you've laid it all out there do you feel like you can show up in a room at a party or go with friends for lunch and be completely yourself without I don't know putting on a show or feeling like you need to pretend that that stuff's not there with my friends a hundred percent yes I I feel like I'm completely myself I also I have a like I keep my friend group pretty small and they're all friends who I've been with for many years of my life and through different eras I have my friends who like I have known since pre-sobriety like my my friend Harley who was my roommate who helped set up the intervention with my family, has been in my life ever since then.

12:04And then I have childhood friends. And those are the people who I think, I'm not even thinking about my perception with them. We're just ourselves with each other. Yeah, I don't feel like there's too much of a... I'm not self-conscious with my friends. there was part of me that was nervous but also it is very vulnerable to just be like here here's the this villain arc that I had and I'm not gonna shy away from the fact that there were like it wasn't great it wasn't great I was doing things I wasn't proud of I'm not proud of. I was a person who I felt like was dishonest, was, I mean, I was like engaging in behavior that I wish I could talk to that 19 year old, 18 year old and be like, you don't need to do this.

13:02You're more than this. But also I wouldn't have listened to myself at that time. So that it was, it was nerve wracking to think that I was just going to put that part out there because it's easy to talk about the recovery. It's easy to talk about, I mean, not easy, but it's cathartic to talk about the fact that I had an intervention and I got through it and then I went to rehab and that was crazy. It's way harder to talk about why I got there in the first place because that's the like really messy part. But that is the honest part. And there have been so many, I mean, all of it's the honest part, but you need that part to get to where we are now.

13:40And that has also been, I think, what a lot of people have connected with when they talk to me about the book is like I'm they they're very they're glad that I didn't take out the the messy part because again as you said everyone everyone has had those eras and sometimes hearing someone else even if it's not like you relate to the exact things that they went through it's just humanizing all of us it's a relief Like we've all done stuff we regret and we've all got a past and actually to pretend otherwise is, you know, if you're wanting to connect with people on that level, that's certainly the way to do it.

14:18But I think you can only do it if you've really made peace with yourself, but also forgiven that version of yourself. How easy was that to do? I feel like I have gone through multiple layers of forgiveness because I would have said maybe after going to treatment in 2017 that I did forgive myself. But I think I was 20 at that point where I would have thought that I had forgiven myself. I didn't even know the magnitude of how I felt about the past few years. I think then you have separation from it. And when I'm in treatment, there's assignments you're given where you have to write everything you've done your entire life.

15:04Literally, I write about it in the book where there are these things on the walls that are just your entire life story. And that's an assignment that you have to do. And then you have to present it to the group over a few weeks. And I remember I did that. I felt like I processed so much of the stuff that I had been through. And then I was writing this book and I was like, I was now 26 versus 19 going through this, processing it. My brain had allegedly fully developed at that point. And I just had a different relationship with all of the things that I had gone through and things that I felt. And it was almost it was more self-forgiveness, but it was also self-forgiveness that felt painful because I was so connected to my childhood self.

15:51And I just wish I just felt so bad for him. I wanted to like hug him. And when I was 19, I probably would have just been more angry at myself and like, God, that idiot. idiot because I was I was so close to who that person was time wise and then 26 27 I'm there's so much more separation and I can look back and be like I just have so much more empathy for that person to see poor little Chris as a kid who felt left out different other I mean all of the all of the things it wasn't even like even the happy moments of me as a kid I think I look back on those times it's it's the nostalgia of any of us looking back on our childhoods and being like not even if our childhoods were necessarily completely happy but this simple time that we it's impossible to be super present with when you're in it because you just want to grow up and then growing up feels completely different too and it gets very messy and I think Like I see my childhood self turning into the alcoholic and those don't connect well in my head.

17:12And that's so heartbreaking to me to watch the kid grow into that. But I think that's one of my favorite parts of the intervention chapter is like connecting the two. And that being the reason why I eventually say yes to going to treatment. because even if I at 19 didn't feel like I deserved to maybe like recover and put this work in and have all these people in the room tell me that I did deserve to live a better life I knew that the the kid who I was he deserved it at least and that's a big thing I still do therapy is like the inner child work. Yeah. I mean, the intervention section is very intense to read because you, at this point, are quite literally faced with people, your nearest and dearest.

18:05Both your parents are there. Your auntie and uncle are there. Your friend, a man that you'd never seen before who was part of the intervention team. And they presented the case to you. And you initially said, no, I don't want to go today. Thank you I'm not going to rehab. Yeah, it is. I mean, thinking back on that moment alone, too, it is hard for me to understand what I was thinking that day because I was also very hungover. It feels like a different person to me. And also it is me. I can't remove myself from the accountability of it because then that would maybe make it feel easier to slide back into that.

18:41Like I need to remember that I am capable of being that person. We're all capable of being the person we don't want to be. But all I had to do that day was show up and answer a yes or no question. And everyone else in that room had had weeks of preparation. They had written these letters. They had flown in a lot of them only for me to initially be like, thanks, guys, but I'm going to wait until the end of college. And I think back on that now and I'm like, oh, my God, that's a moment where I would like that that one he needs he needs to be whipped into shape come on but it was your your dad's words that switched your thinking well his the words that I knew he would say but he never ended up actually reading his because my sister started crying and saying don't make dad read his because when you say no or at least when I said no at an intervention the interventionist like tells everyone to turn their page in the like packet of paper that they've all brought and it's a very dramatic page turn and like there were like i i like it thinking back i feel like i heard like cries in the room i was like something shifted which obviously because i've just said no to getting help and then there are letters about how you will no longer be in their lives.

20:16But people were going off script too. They were just kind of being like, because they were angry as they should be. They're hearing someone say that. Say it's your auntie who you love dearly. He's no longer with us. She's saying, Chris, you're cut out of my life. Was that impacting you? Or were you just kind of, you were cut off from it? I didn't know what was about to happen. And then one family member begins and I'm like, oh, and and is that what everyone is about to say and then but it's like personal to each person like my mom was then saying like she will have to tell my grandma my lola um that she also can't speak to me she'll have to cut me off and and everyone's a lot of them are starting to cry while saying this.

21:03And that is when I was like, oh, I'm kind of seeing that this, it wasn't really, it was a question. I do still have autonomy. Like they can't, they can't actually make me get on this plane and go. But we were going around the room. I knew like next to me was, I can't remember the exact layout, but I want to think it was my sister, my dad, and then my aunt and my uncle over there. And we were, I don't know if we had necessarily gotten to my roommate and my friend right next to me, but we were slowly getting around. And then my sister started crying more. I mean, everyone was already crying, but she was like, please don't make dad read his letter.

21:53And when she said that, I already, like I immediately knew what it was going to say because I think one, her saying that in the first place means like there is some magnitude to whatever's in there. And it wasn't too hard for me to figure out what that would have been. And it's just that like, it would all be over. He was kind of the last, like he would have the last things that would have held it together of like me still going to school and and going like living in that apartment and just having a life while being a 19 year old would have been done and I would have had to figure it out but I I didn't need him to read that and I and there wasn't a world to even once my first my first family member read their letter where I would I would have been like okay I guess I'm out of your life then like I don't think there was ever a moment where I was really considering picking the life I was living over my family.

22:58I think I just I was so wrapped up in my own. Selfishness and also just who I was at the time, I just like I could not even have the capacity to think like, oh, they they really all clearly care about you a lot. Until they all started saying, but that is why the intervention is designed in the way that it is. They know you're not thinking in a way that you're not like connecting with your family members. That's how you got. How do we get here in the first place? You you've really lost your way. And so I'm really grateful. I mean, I can't. People will say to me often like that must have been such a hard day.

23:39Like and it must have been so hard hearing your family members say that to you. And I'm like, yes. Way harder to say that to someone. I had to sit there and listen and listen. They, again, had weeks of preparation and then they had to hear their family members say, thanks, but no. And then they had to tell that family member who they love and they don't want to tell that if they don't choose this, they can't support them. They can't be in their lives because watching you continue to hurt yourself is not something that they can like being in your life is supporting that, which is a really hard thing to fathom a lot of the time.

24:27And my roommate Harley was like, as soon as you left that day, I was prepared for you to like never want to be my friend again. And like once or twice a year, I'll call her crying and just thank her just because she was also 19. Yeah. I mean, she stepped over a threshold of awkwardness and just like the magnitude of doing that. It's a big threshold to cross as a 19 year old. I mean, that's wild.

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28:09Before we get to talking about rehab, which, thank God, was a big success for you, although lengthy, we need to go back in history. And there are a few women that you talk about in this book that are key to your story, one of them being your mum. And you talk about when you were a young kid that she was the mum with the planner and everything was very organised. And you just felt like this all works beautifully. And then something changed. And incrementally, you as a kid had a realization, something's off here. Something's off. yeah I mean it didn't what's funny is looking back I both see myself as a kid but I also remember how I felt in the moment and I was 13 14 when this change was happening and when you're 13 14 you're like I'm an adult I'm a full adult I deserve autonomy and my parents are now annoying me and so I couldn't like necessarily understand if whether what was happening with me and my mom was the same thing that was happening with my friends and their parents and all of us just being like parents.

29:18Yeah. Or if there was something where I was like, yes, parents and also like, are yours like crying to you on the car ride in the morning? About many things like. And interrogating you. Yeah. Which is it's it's it's always hard for me to necessarily. I have so much empathy for her in that moment too obviously then going through my own journey of course but then I also have to like step into myself as the kid and think like well let's also have empathy for Chris he probably I I know that at that time I was so uncomfortable I didn't know how to deal with such big feelings from either of us at the time but all of us were doing what whatever we were doing for the first time she was admitting she was an alcoholic for the first time her and my dad were admitting or probably like realizing it wasn't working for the first time I'm a teenager my sister and I are completely different I'm realizing I'm gay at that time too like everything happened all at once yeah and yeah I look back on those moments and And it is the being in the car.

30:39That was one of those moments where when I was writing about it, I really realized I hadn't thought about how I felt. I could have told that story to you about like, oh, yeah, I was in the car in the morning and my mom would cry and she would ask me if she should leave my dad and all these things. And I would say this to you like I'm saying it now. But when you're writing a book about it, you're thinking about everything you thought and felt at that time. And you almost have to like step into that. And it was just this wave of sadness and also empathy and just pain for that kid who maybe didn't even necessarily feel pain in that moment.

31:20I was probably just annoyed, but it was slowly building up this discomfort with myself and with the world at that time. And just being a kid, you know, you've got school and like you say, working out your sexuality and you've got you want to have fun with your mates. And then on the other side, there's serious stuff going down at home and your mom ends up going to rehab on and off for quite a few years at this point through your teen years. Yeah. It was like over the course of a little over a year, she did a bunch of different programs. It wasn't like my journey where I was – I think that's why they had maybe found a place for me that was like, you're going to be there for as long as it takes.

32:01Because my mom had done a bunch of different programs and that was probably very taxing in its own way. And every program has a different philosophy. So yeah, she was on and off for a while. The timeline of it all too is spotty to me because I was, my head was in, I was just put my head in the sand because I was like, this is, I don't even, I can't even process what's happening within myself. I'm just happy that maybe I get some alone time. Just to have that solace and respite and to be away from the drama of it all. I mean, has your mom read the book? Yeah, she read it in like four hours. And what did she say?

32:42The day I gave it to her. Yeah.

32:48She said, obviously, it was very painful for her to read that perspective of it. But she's really proud of the work that I did and also putting it out there. Because also, as painful as those sections are, there's so much of the book where there's so much joy in my life. you again it's it is really nice to know when you're in the middle of that really dark section that you're like thank god I know this at least turns around the end of the story yes good yes but I think you know hats off to your mum because you know clearly she struggled and I think I you know I'm a mum and I've got a teenager and a soon-to-be teenager and you do I think in this and age, probably less so back when my parents were parenting.

33:34But I think there's this constant worry, like every word that we say that's a bit off or every move is going to somehow fuck your kid up and they're going to end up in therapy and you worry about it constantly. And here you are quite explicitly saying this impacted me, my mum's behaviour here, her going to rehab. So it's brilliant that she's read it and she's taken it on and she's not like gone for you and like, Like, how dare you write about me in this way? Well, I mean, I think a big theme of the book is the ability to change. And like being a person you maybe weren't proud of or acting out in certain ways because of the pain you were feeling.

34:13But knowing that that never needs to define who you are just because that's who you were for a portion of your life. Like that doesn't. Again, we were all doing life for the first time. I can't imagine what she was feeling at that time. Because there are so many aspects to what she was feeling that were created because of a scenario that I have never been in and maybe will never be in. And so I do think like if you're if someone reads the book and they're able to see my arc of change, even if a different person's arc isn't necessarily in there, it's kind of like if if you and I while reading are having this moment of you are feeling very seen because you had a moment where you weren't proud of the way you were.

35:01that is the truth for anyone who's written about in the book and and anyone we kind of like I mean it's the idea of empathy I guess but yeah she I I was I was very nervous to write it in the very honest way that I knew I had to because I knew she would read it but knowing that our relationship is completely different now and that we're in a different place I think it brings the solace of like this, we have to say the messy part. Yeah. And it seems like you guys have a good relationship now because there are boundaries, rules. There's a way that you know that will work with your dynamic. Yeah. I mean, boundaries, I feel like that's just been something over the past few years that I've really learned how to implement and also be safe with.

35:55Setting a boundary feels very scary with like - Especially with a mom. There'll be people out there listening to this going, they've got a difficult relationship with their mom or a dad. They don't know how to put, I don't know, the correct boundaries in that still feel familial and that there's a history, but there's a boundary. Right. And they're really, everyone has a different idea of family too. There's plenty of families that are like, you just never do that with family. Like if I'm a family member, I'm able to do whatever I want. Like we're able to have whatever relationship. You can never not talk to me.

36:32I think that's very common. Especially in the UK. Oh, you know us. We'll just keep our mouths shut, nod and resent you from within. That's how we work. Right. It's so bad. There is this fear around them where it's like, well, when you set a boundary with someone, it means you hate them. Everything is bad and you don't, you never actually want them in your life. It's completely a negative thing. But I think back to what we were talking about with the intervention where these people are sitting in front of me telling me I can't be in their lives anymore if I continue to exhibit this behavior, which is actively hurting myself, which in turn hurts them to watch too.

37:15And that is an ultimate boundary. And so at a smaller scale, if I'm interacting with someone or if someone's in my life who they're making decisions I don't agree with or our relationship feels not conducive to either of us or it makes me feel any type of way, setting a boundary always is the right answer. but that like the boundary could mean many things it doesn't have to be extreme or not but it's what works for you and I think once I set a boundary with my mom for the first time in our relationship I was I was always very scared to do that because I thought I would feel so guilty doing that with the family member but our relationship got so much better from that and I and and now that boundary that specific boundary isn't in place anymore because it doesn't need to be but i wouldn't have known that if i didn't put it in place in the first in the first place and it would have been what you were saying about you know the the general idea in the uk it's this like quiet resentment oh yeah where i would have felt that and but nothing would ever improve about it if anything it could get worse completely but now because i did the harder thing or what is seen as the harder thing it changed in a beautiful way i guess she also has to respect it from the start.

38:41And that's what makes it work is that there is a mutual understanding that this will be better for the both of us. Let's go back to the intervention because to be in a situation like that, things have got to be pretty shit. This is not like, oh, I'm just drinking a bit too much at the weekends. This is at its worst, what? It was, I mean, I couldn't go to bed sober. I remember recognizing that one night just being like, I think I had smoked weed or something, which I didn't even like to do. And I remember doing that and like getting ready for bed and being like, why? And not feeling great, feeling anxious because that's what like that always did to me.

39:25And I was like, why, why did I do that? Why am I like, I, but I could not fathom at that point the idea of just like it's nighttime gonna like get in bed and go to sleep every night had to be not chaos but I just couldn't be in my body I did not want to feel is like a level of escapism I need to just numb myself yes but it's there's there's not as much self-awareness about it it it just is what's happening it's almost like and a lot of addicts describe it this way you're on like addiction autopilot where your day ends and you're just like okay now I gotta go get my thing and then I um shut off but it isn't this switch of like oh at the end of every day I was like I I feel miserable and I'm sure people do have that journey but it wasn't to the point where I I could even recognize that I was in so much pain I was just like I think at that point too I probably still would have equated it to like I just love to have fun which I'm like okay so fun looks like getting drunk and crying and then passing out okay that's a different idea of fun than I had but and also leading you to moments that then made you feel such horror like nightmare moments that you'd get yourself into that you're like why have I done this to myself and sometimes you wouldn't even remember the next day until a friend maybe like gives you a look that you've upset them and it's just this wave of it becomes a cycle because you have this wave of shame over like what the fuck did i do like why why why am i doing this like i need to figure out what i did i need to apologize but also like you i i can't even remember it so it could have been way worse than I can even imagine.

41:22And so shame cycle. I feel so bad about myself. I better start again. Yeah. I remember one day it was like a Saturday at in college. And I was saying to a friend while I was already violently hung over from Friday, I was like, I can't believe we have to do this again tonight. And my friend was I don't think they said anything like on the contrary of like that's because, again, that's where like it being in college the lines get blurred where you're just like yeah we're yeah yes the culture right culture of college yeah and now i think back to that line specifically and i'm like have to you can just be in your dorm and hang out just go to bed just watch some netflix if you're hung over too like yeah i would i would be like the method of that day then would be like okay how do I make myself feel less nauseous so I can stomach more alcohol which again it's in those moments I wasn't thinking like yeah that's like there's there's something to be worried about there it was just purely the actual like analytical part of it of like okay what what do I need to do but now I can see that as as everything was whatever pain I was feeling was just so stuffed yeah down one of the other important key women in this book is Lizzie who is your therapist and she is somebody that you first encountered at rehab your description of rehab towards the end of the book is unreal like it's so brutal parts of it you know I thought I had a rough idea and I know obviously like you said there's lots of different programs methodologies that you can partake in depending on where you are in the world what you're going in for but this was militant to say the least and the bit I guess that shocked me was the sort of the level of accountability that you had to take was at times I'm imagining alarming for you to take on whether it was the bit I think that shocked me the most was these sort of fake funerals that would take place yeah it's funny you mentioned that to me and it's almost like the memory comes back for the first time even though i fully wrote about it did the like read the audiobook for i've talked about that plenty of times but there were there was so much that happened at that treatment center that was kind of unbelievable in a way that it is there are stuffed memories about it all But that those by the time the fake funeral happened, which if for anyone who's listening who doesn't know what we're talking about, it is exactly what it sounds like where you walk into a room one day.

44:19We were always doing group therapy in the mornings. We had three group therapy sessions a day. And if like the rooms were set up a certain way, it meant something different was happening that day. And that day we walked in, the rooms were all like connected and there was a literal casket like in front of the room and then a podium. And then the one of the therapists probably like introduces what's happening. And then you have whoever's parents are there in a line ready to read a eulogy, which I also think is like traumatizing for the parent to read to like to write that. awful i mean i i we've talked about the the writing the letters of cutting off the kid writing a letter writing a eulogy for your child when and also they're right in front of you but really having to take yourself through the experience of what it would be like to lose them which you already like most of the parents probably already had done but it's like and now you have to really go there but my thing about that specific scenario is i'm like who is that for in in the therapy like in under the therapeutic guise are you guys are you guys making the parent do that so the kid has a wake-up call that they maybe haven't had yet that's what my assumption was which is very unfair to the parent awful like the parent which that that isn't therapeutic for them at all i mean i don't i don't that's a part of it you're clearly looking back on going that that shouldn't have happened that was too far although you also do say that during your time there you did see people leave because they were allowed to go home and then sadly that was their end yeah yeah which it is the truth of addiction there which that is there were always two sides of the coin to anything that they did there whereas hard as it might be to watch I had an understanding as to why we were doing it and I also like there was not going to be a part of me stepping into that room that was going to allow myself to doubt what was happening because of how intense it was and like if they saw doubt on my face that would be the topic of the conversation they would have probably like put me in the casket yeah I mean there was a level of and again it's sort of a tactic that I'm not sure how you feel about it now post you know it working and coming out of rehab where you were shamed for certain things and people were actively encouraged to shame others in the rehab facility.

46:50Yeah, it was this idea of accountability and holding each other accountable. And if the therapist was saying someone did something wrong and no one else was chiming in, then none of us care about that person's recovery. And it would frequently, the line that would be said is like you want them to die like you're or you're you're killing them and like thinking back to that I mean I I laugh because it's often it sounds so melodramatic but in the moment that was completely like we that line being said was completely serious and we had to take it seriously. Yeah. It was everything was just at such a level of high stakes that you were living at such a high level of anxiety the entire time that I had this like this click at one point where I was like, I think I think I get one of the things that they're doing here.

47:48And it's keeping us at such an incredible high level of anxiety at all times while sober that whenever we go out into the world and life inevitably gets a little stressful sometimes we know we could already handle it yeah which again it's like getting sober there is no perfect method for anyone and everyone needs different things there are plenty of ways that there are so many ways that it's exactly what I needed. And then who's to say where it maybe could have stopped. And I maybe could have like, okay, I get I get what I get I got what I needed, I should probably now just start implementing that versus then it going too far.

48:33And, and I had gotten what I needed. And then the idea of me being a horrible person was continued to be kind of like cycled through my mind. And again, when you're 19, your brain is developing and you're learning how to interact with the world and be an adult. And I was just learning that the way to be an adult is like, just be, don't take up space, consistently apologize. You are always in the wrong. Always think about what you might've done to the other person. And like, if, if you want, if, if anything kind of like really good is happening in your life or you're indulging in something, you are selfish and like everything is.

49:16So kind of weirdly good training for being really famous on TikTok. Right. It was that, which is why it was so horrifying to me when it was beginning, because I was like, oh, something bad is about to happen. I don't deserve this. And also, like, they're all going to find out that I'm actually what my rehab has told me. I'm actually a horrible person. Like, and I'm lying to all of them. Like all these people who are saying like, oh, yes, we love like love your videos. I'm like, I've I've deceived them all. I'm a liar. I'm a fraud. And like and something like it is all going to fall apart because good things are not supposed to happen in this way.

50:00And that's when I reconnected with Lizzie. Yes, because I showed up on her for you page one day and we hadn't been doing therapy together for like a year. and then we started and and she had since left that rehab place because she no longer I mean she maybe hadn't agreed with the methodology in the first place but ever since then we have now in our therapy sessions occasionally worked on undoing some of the ways yeah that we originally did therapy and I'm sure like some of it does you know we know what social media is like and And, you know, you say in the book, and I feel similar, it's hard to tune out the negative stuff.

50:40You know, you can go looking for it if you want. You can look through thousands of lovely comments where people like what you've said, like your T-shirt, whatever. But you're hunting out that person that's called you a twat or whatever it might be because you're used to that level. And I certainly feel like that still. And I'm way older than you. And I would like to be at a level mentally where I'm like, oh, water off a duck's back. I don't care about that. But it's it's hard. So I think that's where therapy is actually really handy when you know you like your job. But the downside of it is people are going to give you shit whether you've done something wrong or not.

51:13You've got to find a way to cope with that. Yeah. It. I think, again, everyone has a different relationship with how they can handle it. There are plenty of people who are in the entertainment industry or who maybe have a viral video and they can see a negative comment towards them. and they're like, this person doesn't even know me, whatever. I'm not built that way. Nor am I. And I don't know if I will ever, like that, the work for me wasn't about figuring out how to be okay with it. It was just acknowledging I'm not. I'm a soft emotional person. Yeah, same. And I just can't, don't look for it.

51:51Chris with delicate flowers. Yes. Okay. I've just like, but it's this confirmation bias. We're like seeking that we don't even know we're seeking. Oh yeah. Yeah. And you do want to I think we want to believe what other people are saying a lot of the time. And so when they're saying something that is not great about us, my impulse is like, especially after going through this treatment center is like, OK, how do I make them happy with me? Like I've upset them. What do I do? But there's that isn't the question to be asked. No, no, it's not. And it's a very complicated transaction if you start getting into that.

52:25And also you do mention that as your TikTok fame and success started to really snowball and you could see this ascent, you know, these numbers climbing before your eyes, that there was a slight worry, like this is the new addiction then? This is what I now channel all of that energy into is more, more, more. yeah I mean I knew as it was beginning which was that was part of why I think the treatment center had this idea about like if something really good is happening like if you're indulging too much it is inherently unhealthy and bad so while it was happening I was like in the I knew the whole time I was like if this were happening to me while I was still in Florida they would have made me delete the account yeah the second that I like got any sort of validation from it because seeking validation was also like the devil at that time.

53:16That was why I think there was so much shame in finding some sort of success. I was like, well, I'm not supposed to do that. I'm just supposed to live a very neutral life that doesn't ruffle anything. And I was recognizing the feeling within me too, where I was like, and I know that I'm really seeking this dopamine hit now. that also includes connection with other people which was the tough part of it was i was like i know there are so many elements to this that are okay and good connecting with people like sharing us all relating to each other so where where do i stop myself for then when it goes too far and now i'm doing it to feed this part of my brain that needs needs it to feel good about myself to have any sort of self-worth.

54:07So where are you at with that now? Because, you know, your years into it now, do you have a healthy stance where you can see it from a distance, you can enjoy the good bits, you can occasionally feel like, oh my God, that did really well, that video. And I'm good with that. Yes. Yes. I think I'm a very black and white person, extremist, obviously. It's like through the addiction of it all. So when I turn off of something, I will, I sometimes go way too off of it. And so when I was first having my journey of like, you need to step back and you need to not read the comments, I remember I was like not going on social media at all.

54:44And my idea of it, my feeling towards it changed completely. It just wasn't something I necessarily felt was fulfilling or good because it was a dark place. And now I think I'm finally getting to this middle ground of like the question in my head popped up one day of like why would I ever try to change someone's mind who is determined to not like me in the first place why was I ever like really why was I specifically focused on them oh yeah versus all of the people who were like no no we we we like you yeah we always go for the one that you know doesn't like you like that's a that's a challenge i'm gonna i'm gonna force them to like me right or like i will i will figure out a way like i will i will do okay i'll i'll be a different person i'll do this like i'm annoying i'm or i'm too loud or whatever where you have again this whole group of people who are like no you're good and that also like i don't think that's necessarily a unique experience to like um being in the public eye i think all of us there were so many moments me or my friends have in our lives where it's like in a relationship or where someone obviously maybe was not good for you or didn't like you but you have this inherent need to be like no because that is now they're mirroring what like an idea of you towards yourself and it's like okay if i can change their mind then that must mean i'm a good person yeah and like they're wrong but in a in a parasocial relationship on top of that it's like they there is no necessarily real basis of disliking well they don't know you yeah they don't know the real you so it is utterly pointless

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59:19How long have you been clean for now? Nine. It'll be nine years on September 28th. How incredible. It is really wild to not remember what it's like to be drunk. Yeah. Especially after all these things we were talking about where I'm like, I could not go to sleep sober. that's all I was doing I'm like I I can't even really remember it nine years is a feat it's incredible do you feel proud of yourself yes I go in and out because feeling proud of myself is an idea that the rehab would have rejected they would have been like that's just what you're supposed to do pride is like you should you be proud think about all the things you did to make yourself sober in the first place but I think I'm proud of like the big picture of it all too I think I'm able to be proud of what I see happened after that and like it is no surprise none of this would have happened or would have worked had I been drinking I don't think I would have been here I mean based on how quick the descent was I was really like I was 19 and they had done blood work when I first got to the rehab and they were like, yeah, your liver is not looking great.

1:00:40And 19, your body should be like bouncing back every single time. But I was not giving it a chance to bounce back. And I was so like my body was retaining so much water from like drinking all the time. It was just a it's it. He looks like a different person, too. But I am overall proud. I think there are moments where you can like, we often focus on the things that we haven't done or that we're not doing or that we could be doing better in. But there have been many moments over the past few years where I've grounded myself, brought myself back to the present and been like, the only reason you're even like having this thought or this issue or thinking like, oh, I wish I were in this position is because you've gotten so far already.

1:01:28Like, you should i'm none of this we we wouldn't be having this conversation if like with if if i if my friend at 19 hadn't like worked with my family to make this happen there are so many things but also you have to have a level of dedication and discipline every day for to continue in that way it's not a magic spell where you cross a line and then you're good so what do you have to ensure is in your life non-negotiable to keep you on the straight and narrow in that way I think thinking about what, like, I think routine was the first thing when I got back to college. I put my head down and I did the same thing every day because I was like, I, I know how to do that because I know how to do routine in addiction.

1:02:15I know how to, as soon as the day ends, I know how to find the drink and do whatever I need to do. So let me not give myself time to even have that thought, basically, which is that necessarily the right way to go about it? Fill the day. I think when you're 20, fine, it works. And then there was a time, like once I got to three or four years, I was then sober longer than I had been drinking. And it became more natural to me. I wasn't thinking about it. it wasn't a hard resistance anymore because I was also never like ordering a drink at dinner. I couldn't hear. It was I've never had a legal drink.

1:02:57So it was never like a routine that was happening like in the light with people. It was like in the dark. Yes. In my room alone. Like so all I had to do was not get myself to that cave. my mom had a completely different experience because she had been like she would go out to dinners and order wine and like all of those things and i can't imagine that adds a complete other dynamic to it that would be very tough but i think that the issue that i had to hone in on more after the years of like not drinking was not engaging in behavior that felt like i was trying to fill some sort of void with it.

1:03:40Like what, but, you know, I've been in therapy for so long that I think if anything, I overthink so many of my actions. So now my work that I do with my therapist is like, well, what if you did just enjoy something for once? Yeah, just have a nice time. Just enjoy it. Just enjoy it. I mean, I remember bringing, talking to her midway through social media. Maybe I'd been doing it for a year or two at that point. And I was like, I know this is like, I'm, I'm glad that it's happening. And I know it is like fulfilling this unhealthy part of me that like is always there would be there was a moment in time with social media where if I hadn't had a viral video that day, I would post again until I did like I was I was posting every day when I first started I posted five times a day, every day for like, two or three months.

1:04:38I'm like, how did I even think of all that? What was I even doing? But that's the motivation of a 21 year old. I mean, who was we were it was COVID nothing else to do. But even past that in like 2022, I was still I could not rest until I felt like I was validated and people were like, we see you. Yes, we agree. We're feeling seen to relating like I needed I needed to have that conversation and if for some reason the algorithm wasn't letting me it would I would feel this like addictive fire under me be lit because it was like that is one of the things that you're not in control of with an addiction I can go get a drink and I can be like great we're set with social media with playing the game of of entertainment and trying to like create something that people like it is it's a gamble because so much so much of the time there will be videos that I don't even think about that then a lot of people connect with that I've posted.

1:05:40And then there's a video where I'm like, I put so much work into it. And for whatever reason, it's not what the people want to see or the algorithm doesn't want to show it that day. So I think I remember saying that to my therapist being like, I know that this is not good that I start feeling that. And she was like, yes, we don't want you to feel like your self-worth is based on that but you can also recognize that that is why you're good at your job and that's why you've gotten to the place that you've gotten yeah they're like having a little bit of that fire under you can be healthy in a way i mean healthy it's like that's where addiction is just so complicated because it's like there is no right answer what is good and what is bad But there is also like it is a spectrum for everyone.

1:06:31Is there plenty of people who like I mean, people will ask me now that it's been like nine years, don't you think you could probably like just go out and like have a drink? I'm like, first of all, that still doesn't sound fun to me. No. One drink. What am I going to do with that? You want 10. And that's exactly what I say to people. I'm like, I'm like, we got there is truly there is still no point to one drink in my head. But there are like people in their lives because I think addiction can be situational and it can be genetic. I think I got one of everything. But I think if it does come from some situation in your life, there are ways that you can process through it.

1:07:13And people, all people have different journeys with it, which is why it's so. I think one thing that I was really focused on when writing this book is like, this is not a how to. this is not a like if you're going through this all you have to do is have your family have an intervention send you down to this rehab in florida it's like there are plenty of ways that exact experience caused issues that i'm still dealing with today but maybe had i gone anywhere else i wouldn't it wouldn't have worked in other ways so i think the main takeaway from it is more that the ability to change will always be there no matter how deep you feel like you've gotten yourself into that.

1:07:56But what that change looks like will be different for everyone. Of course. So before we finish, two big questions. I'm like, we've been talking for 10 minutes only. I know. This is what happens with this thing. There is no time. It doesn't exist. First one, we're making a happy place playlist. What song would you put on there that just makes you like you light up when you hear it, makes you feel great? Oh my God. There are so many. I light up.

1:08:26why it's maybe it's because i'm talking to you that all of the songs that are running through my head are adele and i'm like oh we love adele they don't light me up right away because i'm in my feels with adele yeah yeah um that voice yeah oh my god just incredible i want to say olivia rodrigo stupid song the first song of her new album love it we haven't got that on there so that's that's going on it's just a beautiful like love song that is about another person but like it can be about anything love that whoever i'm not listening to a love song thinking about someone else currently i'm thinking about just like the world yes and yourself quite frankly yes um and where chris olsen is your happy place um i love being oh This is actually the second time I've said this on this press front where I'm like, I love being home and being alone where no one can ask me a question.

1:09:30We will release you to your house now. No one will bother you for the rest of the day. I got some more meetings. No, I hear you. I don't know if you're the same as me, but my job is extremely social and I'm constantly talking to people, interviewing people around lots of people. And then I need to counter it by sitting in a room alone on my own. not speak i literally don't speak for hours hours to the point where the postman will come and i don't i can't remember how to interact how do i say yeah awkward yeah i that'll be like when i if i decide to make a video for the first time that day and i'm like oh i haven't like spoken all day but i do i don't know what like i i always love my alone time throughout my whole life but But something about over the past few years where I've just created peace in my apartment.

1:10:18It's your sanctuary. Yeah. And it really, it's so nice. It's so nice. But I do love being social too. And then by the end of those social interactions, when I get home, I'm not even like, oh, get me out of here. I am. Right. And there are times. Yeah. And there are times. Yeah. But the second I get home, I'm like, oh, I'm bra off. I'm like, thank God. Bra off, personality gone. I don't even. That's my routine. One of my friends just called attention to the fact that like, I don't even turn on many of the lights when I get home. I'm just like, I don't need. This is like, let it be dark. Your little cocoon.

1:10:58Yeah, like, let it be dark. Let me just like, no one. I don't need to see. No, your little rabbit warren. I love it. Yeah. Heaven. My home. It's probably not too like unique of an answer, my safe space. It is what it is. It's what it is. That's your answer. I love it. Chris, thank you so much. Thank you. I hope you have a jolly great time in the UK. Just have a brilliant time, probably in the rain, let's face it. Yeah. But enjoy it. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. I hope to see you. Yeah, we'll bump into you then. See you there. Yeah, we'll make it happen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Chris.

1:11:28Not only did I really enjoy that chat, I also learned a lot about Chris, which is always an interesting thing, diving into somebody else's life. and I got to go to New York with my kids, which was so great. It was very funny because normally I don't bring my kids to work because they're at school. But they came to New York with me and they were sat in the studio in New York whilst we recorded it. And I mean, my kids, they don't really know what I do or what this is. I'm not one of their cool YouTubers that they're a big fan of, obviously. I'm just like their loser mum. So they were both a bit like, what is this?

1:12:02And at the end, honey went to me. Oh, my God, that was a really deep chat. And I was like, yeah, that's kind of that's that's what I do. That's all it is. And she was like, wow, he's really lived a life. It was so funny. Her little face kind of trying to figure it all out. But we had such a great trip. And as I said, right at the start of this, we also got to go and see the Happy Place Billboard on Times Square, which actually, to be fair, my son couldn't have given a toss about. He was moaning that it was too busy in Times Square. So lost on him for now. But anyway, a wonderful moment. Other than that, it was a real moment for the whole Happy Place team.

1:12:42Go Happy Place. I love my team. They are simply the best. So thank you, Chris. Thank you for letting us chat about your brilliant book. His memoir is called I Think My Therapist Hates Me. And it's out right now. If you want a good, raw, honest read, that is the book for you. I want to say a massive thanks again to Chris for joining me in New York City and to you lovely lot for coming with us on the ride too. I love you.

1:13:27You