Coleen Rooney: Marriage takes work! Coping with the press and raising four kids

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that explores the myriad unique scenarios that challenge and strengthen us. Today, I'm chatting to Colleen Rooney. There was one time where I thought, no, you're going a bit too far now, was we were doing the production, we were doing Bugsy Malone, and they had press trying to come in to the school hall to watch it. It was like the parents and friends and family, and one of the teachers got me before the performance, and was like, we've just had to put some more people on the door, and I was asking people who they're here to see. He said, because someone's been flagged up, and it's someone from the press that's coming in.

0:38I'm glad they never because I was fat Sam. How you all doing you lovely lot? I'm at that nice cosy point in the year where I'm really embracing the wintry vibes. I always think I'm going to dread winter. And then this sort of bit of the year I'm like, I like it. I'm all cosy. The fluffy socks are out. I'm enjoying little hibernation evenings where I sort of light some candles, watch Great British Bake Off and put a little blanket on. I love it. Oh heaven. I hope that you're finding it cosy and nourishing too. And also like all good humans, I'm slightly turning into my mum by Christmas shopping already.

1:22I used to find that so irritating that my mum would Christmas shop so early. I mean, my mum does take the piss, like she'll Christmas shop in March, but I've started buying things already and then there's the problem of where am I storing all this stuff just shoving it under beds um and hope the cats don't rip it all to shreds but I've started I've started it's happening I might even have a mulled wine at some point this week guys sod it so look let's get on to this week's episode we talked to lovely Colleen Colleen was catapulted into the public eye and in many ways became a sort of public property when the press discovered that she was Manchester United footballer Wayne Rooney's girlfriend when she was 16.

2:03I mean, you'll remember the pictures of her in her school uniform being packed in her uniform. It was just all so bizarre. We talk about what a wild ride that was. Now, she is obviously these days a massively busy working mum of four, four boys, and an ambassador for the protein, vitamins and collagen brand Applied Nutrition. What stood out about this chat? We talked about loads. We talked about the sort of overwhelm of WhatsApp groups. When you've got four kids, the amount of admin and this newfangled thing of like WhatsApp groups for parents in schools to keep on top of everything. My parents used to sort of kick me out the door and go, bye.

2:42And I'd walk to school on my own and they never had to deal with any of this. I don't think they even asked me, have you done your homework? I just sort of did my own thing. These days, I feel like I might as well be at school with my kids half the time. We talk about all of that and parenting 21st century kids, the relationship that you have with your partner outside of being a parent, which is obviously very important, and how her and Wayne have managed to navigate a lot of challenges and stayed together for so long since the age of 16, which is just absolutely bonkers. And how she deals with stress, because obviously she's had quite a lot of it over the last few years.

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5:44and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wherefigs.com, code FIGSRX. Okay, let's crack on with the show, although just give Colleen a quick second while she finishes her sip of water.

6:20Hello, lovely Colleen. Sorry, I wasn't ready. There's no massive formal stop. I just start chatting. Hi, you OK? Yeah, I'm really good, thank you. You? I'm good. You're down in London for a day, a couple of days? Just a day. I came this morning. I leave this evening. Nice. I can't take too long because I've got to get back to the kids and sort them out. You've got four boys. and we're back into the school routine, the first turn back. I mean, you think, oh my God, the summer holidays is going on forever. And then actually when they start back at school, you're like, this is harder. Yeah, no, it is.

6:57I think, you know, in the summer, it's quite nice having some time to switch off and just go with the flow. You know, there's no routine to follow. There's no homework to be in the next day when school starts. I do love a routine. However, everything just piles up on top of each other. And I think, you know, I've got one who's just gone into year seven secondary school and he's trying to cope with the homework loads because obviously there's been a big jump. So we've had that. And then after school activities as well. You're not, you know, you're going out in the morning and then you're not coming home till half eight at night.

7:32Yeah. I mean, the juggle is real. It's so insane. The homework thing is mind boggling to me. My son just started secondary school and he came home yesterday and the maths homework was mad. It was like, he was like, oh, mum, what's 7.492 to the nearest three decimals? And I was like, oh, I don't know what this is. And sometimes at that point of the day, your mind just doesn't focus. And you're just like, come on, can we just get it done and we can, you know, bath and bed. but now it's, well, my eight-year-old's maths last night, I had to put it into my family group and say, does anyone know how to figure this out?

8:12It was like a challenge question at the end and it took time to think about it, but I didn't have the time to stop and think about it. So I was like trying for a quick fix, but I couldn't figure it out. So I had to say, can anyone figure this out? But we did in the end. Well, I think, well, he didn't. I said, tell your teacher that you have family help, yeah, because you never done that. And he's like, but do I have to? I was like, yeah. I know. We end up, my stepdaughter luckily is doing economics at uni and she's a real maths whiz. So I called her yesterday and I went, I need your maths assistance.

8:45Immediately put her on FaceTime and then just leave them to it. I don't know how to cope with this stuff. I'm absolutely clueless. Please don't tell me that you're on four separate parents WhatsApp groups. Yeah, four classes, four years. And then we've got football groups and we've got, yeah, we've got a lot of groups going on. It's hectic. This might be controversial, really struggle with the parents' WhatsApp group. It's too much. Do you know what? There's pros and cons because there is sometimes where, you know, certain parts... I am an organised person and I try and have everything wrote down in my diary.

9:22But, you know, we are human. We do miss things. And someone will pop up on, you know, one of the parents' WhatsApp saying, oh, tomorrow's non-uniform day or to it. And I'm like, thank goodness you've just said that because I've got all the uniforms laid out there and they would have gone into school in the uniforms. That is handy. There is little things where they are handy. But there was one time where my phone for, I think it was like three days maybe, was going off at like five in the morning. I was thinking, who is this? And it just got to day three and I was like, can we have a rule where you don't message in before at least half six?

9:58Yeah. And that was being generous. Well, I am up at that time, but it still is early. It's too much. And she said, oh, sorry, I'm just working in Dubai at the minute. I was like, yeah, but please consider everyone else in England. You're in Dubai, we're in England. But also just, can we keep it to essential chats? Yeah, yeah. Because I think sometimes when it goes off into... We've lost the sock. Yeah, we're just going off on all sorts of tangents that I can't handle. But four, I can... Well, I say just about cope with two. I struggle with two. Four, plus, as you say, you've got the whole year group, you've got the extracurriculars.

10:34It's insane. Our parents back in the day would boot us out the door and go, bye, and then we'd go to school and they didn't know anything about anything. No, they would get a letter home to tell that, you know, every now and again. But, yeah, no, it was simple. It was easier times. They had it so easy back in the day. It was ridiculous. Are your four boys all very different in personality? Yes. I'd say I've got two and two. Two are alike and the other two are alike. My eldest and my third one, they're, you know, a bit more fiery and energetic. And saying that they're all energetic, but they've just got that bit more, you know, one attention.

11:16My second and my fourth, I'd say a bit more laid back in a way. In a way. As laid back as, you know, boys can be. But yeah, no, it's nice because they have got all different ways about them and they give me different, you know, different loving. And yeah, it's nice. It's, you know, it's a good balance. Do they fight? Because I think my kids hate each other a lot of the time. I just say, as soon as we get in the car, I say, please don't talk to each other. Just focus on what you're doing. Do not have a conversation because it's going to go into a row or an argument. They just wind each other up.

11:56That's what it is. And it goes in like a domino effect. So the oldest winds the second one up to the second one, winds the third. And then, yeah, it's mayhem. But they fight all the time. Yeah, mind you. I'm glad you're saying that. Because sometimes I'm like, why do, not my stepkids, but the younger two, fight about everything? They could be arguing over a satsuma. It could be something they don't even care about. It's just the fact that they can vent about the satsuma. It's wild. My third one just mentions a girl's name in my youngest one, Gia, and he goes, and next minute it's like, it just takes off.

12:35But, yeah, I think I've got a long way to go for them to grab hold of that. Good luck. I know. How do you cope with that energy in the house? Four boys and a husband. You're the only female energy in the house. Do you know what? I enjoy it. I think that's where I thrive off. You know, I like to keep busy. I like, growing up, I had two brothers and, you know, our house was very active. My dad always had us, you know, out and about doing different things. And we always had family nearby. So it was a very full house. You never knew who was going to knock on the door. So I think I've grown up in that active environment.

13:16And so I think for me, it's quite natural. It's a madhouse. one of my sons, my second one who's gone into secondary school he got asked a question the other day and he's in school and he said if you can describe your family in one word what would you say? He said mental. I went what did the teacher say? He went no they are loving and kind but it's just mad. I was thinking oh no the teacher's going to think oh what's going on in that house? I'm pretty sure that most would assume that four boys equals some kind of chaos. I think it's fine. I mean, it is a hell of a lot. What kind of parent are you?

13:54Are you the sort of parent you thought you'd be? Because I think I always assumed, and even when I had my stepkids, I thought, oh, I'm just going to be so laid back and floating around. I am not that person. No. I'm the opposite of that person. I am. Now, I would say I'm more the stricter one. I like things in order. And if you say to my kids, they would say, oh, she's a mooner. She moons all the time. but that's because I need things to get done and if I didn't, I ask them nicely first and then it develops into a moan or a shout or whatever but they just don't listen and that's why. And I tell them that, I say, you know, things would be so much easier and we would have a more, you know, happier home if you just listen the first time and do stuff the first time.

14:43But yeah, no, I would say I am probably the parents I thought I would be but I think as I've had more kids I think it's gone a bit more difficult because I have to share the time when you have one I think it was more you know I had time to do go out on these days out and you know I try and do a lot and especially with Wayne being away I do a lot on my own and people do say oh my goodness how do you do all that and I just say you've got to get on with it haven't Yeah, and I say that a lot in my life is, you know, it's like you just get on with it and you manage it no matter what. I can look at the diary at the beginning of the week and think, how am I going to cope with this?

15:22But I know I'm going to do it. So it's fine, you know, we can get on with it, we can do it. But, yeah, I think I am a fair parent. I'd say Wayne was the one who's a bit more laid back and can have, you know, a bit more fun with them. But I say that's because, you know, when you're in, you've got the time to, you're not organising things for the next day, you're not packing bags, you're not doing this. And my mum says it about, you know, when we were children, my dad was always, you know, the active one, always doing the fun stuff always. And my mum used to always be there, but she was the one who was the organiser, making the house at home, you know, doing all that stuff.

16:02And I think it's, you know, sometimes in a house, that's the natural way it is. Yeah, it happens so often, without a doubt. I mean, I've definitely heard you say that before in other interviews, that you've just got to get on with it. It's an attitude that I think actually serves you really well in terms of having a ton of resilience and being able to move through chaos and having four boys, it's a hell of a lot. And working and just the whole juggle, it's a hell of a lot. Do you need time on your own when you're just in solitude or time out from all of it? Yes, definitely. I think that everyone needs a bit of me time.

16:37you know whether you get it a lot or you know just now and again I think you do need time to reset and think you know just think everything's going to be okay it's fine it's fine to feel that way um I probably gym to go in the gym do an exercise that hour or 45 minutes of me either being in it do like a love reformer pilates um I'll go to a class and then I do you know gyms a couple of days a week I find that that's my time that's my time to not think about you know what do I need to do what you know creeps in sometimes but then you've got to focus on what you're doing so you do you know have that time and then I've always made time for you know me and Wayne to go you know if he's got a couple of days off you know a couple of times throughout the year we'll go away and just have time together and I do it with the kids as well so in the summer holidays I say to them all what do you want to do this summer holiday whether it be a day out or a night over somewhere and i'll say to them do you want to bring a friend or do you want it to be just me and you and we've i've done that since you know i've i've had gone on to have you know more kids and they love that they love that one-on-one time and i think it's it's special that you you can still say you know you are part of this family and sometimes you mightn't feel like an individual but you're actually you know you can come to me anytime and I will have time for you but you know when we're in the house it might seem mad and I haven't got time for you but you know I'll always make it.

18:09It's so important I think especially with your partner because with kids with the chaos of family life it's so easy to only ever chat about that and to go have you done the snack are you doing the school run you know me and my husband can absolutely get into that pattern of only talking about that and we'll go oh we haven't got time for a date night I actually can't be bothered I'm too tired once they're in bed I just want to go to sleep but it is really important if you can to make that time to go for dinner or go for lunch if you can or a night away if that's possible do you think like when you are with Wayne in that space are you able to sort of not talk about the kids and just be a couple and chat about life yes like most of the time the kids do creep in at some point but I think you know we do and we you know you'd have a laugh again and that's that's good to have that and I think you know because you're not doing it all the time which it would be a perfect life if you could do that all the time but them times that you do it feels like a treat yeah and I think that's nice and you know we we even when we first moved into the house we live in now we've got like an annex so we got a babysitter in one night and we had the kids on this life 360 app so you know where it's like you can detect on their devices they you can detect the older one if he was coming home from school i know where the school bus is and so we said right we're going out see you later but we never we went to the annex because we couldn't be bothered we just wanted tonight to watch some tv we got a takeaway and we got a ping of a message and they were like where are you and we're like oh we've gone out telling the little fib and he went no you're not you're over you're over in the annex I was like oh oh yeah oh I was thinking you can't do anything where I'll get a courthouse but even simple things like that just to sit down and watch a bit of tv oh that's my dream night yeah just watching it yeah any old shit on Netflix and just decompressing and having I think it's so important especially when you've had kids a long time and your eldest is 14 so you've been a mum for 14 years to sort of remember that you are a human outside of that because it is so all-consuming and you rarely switch off from it even when you're working you can be worrying about where they are how they're getting home from school whatever it might be and you become so consumed by the sense of responsibility that you forget what you like doing yeah like who you are as a person what you might do if you had free time I feel like I'm only now my eldest is 11 I've got stepchildren but their adults are independent now but I'm just going oh wait I remember who I am outside of that role I think it takes years yeah but to be honest I've I think I I cracked it from you know from the beginning when I had Kai I've got a really close family who are supportive and they've literally because Wayne spent a lot of time away over the years playing football my parents have literally brought up my kids with me you know they've helped out so much and from the beginning from when Kai was a baby we've always gone on holiday for a week a year and left the children so they've always known that it's not been a shock to them later on when we've said right we need to have some time to ourselves and I think that's a good thing a lot of parents and children get so attached that pardon they can't deal with yeah whereas I do feel like I've done it from the beginning and it's never been a difficulty with us and then that's always been our week a year where we've spent a whole week away it feels like forever because we've got no kids um but we're always coming back and it goes back to the same thing as soon as we land it's uh you know it's mayhem again but it's just nice to take yourself away from it and also you start you know you miss them but you think of you know things aren't that bad you know when you think oh i've got this to do i've got that it's fine you know it's it's nice you sort of zoom out of the situation and I think it's so interesting when you end up staying in an area where you've got family which is so often not the case you know people will move away from where their parents live or people will move from a rural area to a city and then you find yourself just in this nuclear family trying to cope and so many people don't because they haven't got the support or they can't get child care I I think there's something to be said for your mental state and the level of calm that you feel being in an area where you've got family and that support network.

22:43And it was so much more common back in the day that that sort of collective, the village raised the children. It's such an important thing that not many people experience these days. No, 100%. And I had that experience when we moved to America. We moved to America for a year and it was so hard because I'd gone from having all that support and I would have loved my mum and dad to come over but I couldn't be selfish on my brothers because they look after their children as well and I found myself in this big new place where four children, my youngest was six months at the time and I struggled, I struggled I did never think there was any such thing as homesickness but it hit in really fast and hard and I cried and cried and I'm not a crier but I couldn't even FaceTime me mum and dad to be on the FaceTime to the kids and I hear my mum go is your mum there and I'm like oh no I couldn't look at her I just couldn't do it and it sounds like a like it's a big exaggeration but that no it's horrible honestly it was so hard and not seeing your mates but then yeah and my friends and just that it made me so appreciative of what I did have and what I've now got and we were only there a year we were meant to be there two years but it was um yeah it was an experience and I got goodness off it like appreciation and even like our education system you know it it's we have got some good things that you know people don't realize until you move away oh my god the relief of coming home must have been so nice just the best thing ever I mean you and Wayne have been together now how many years oh um 22 years or something That's unbelievable.

24:28And married for? 16. 16. I think. I might have to check on that. That's wild. I mean, obviously we've heard that this week away is essential and having these date nights, super, super important. What do you think has kept you strong and together? Because you've had so much pressure and stress on you as a couple and very publicly as well. And you've navigated it seemingly very gracefully. What do you think has kept you together as a couple privately outside of the public glare? I think growing up with each other, you know, we've known each other from a young age and, you know, being together from a really young age.

25:03It's not, you know, at the time you think you're old and you think you're, but when I look now, I was 16 and we're having my son nearly 15. I think I was only a baby. I was so young. But I think, you know, we've grew up together. We've gone through the hard times together. We've gone through the good times together. And we know each other well. I know that sounds like, but you find some couples and they don't actually know each other that well. I find that, you know, I always say, if you ask me what me and Wayne are, I would say we're a team and we've helped each other through life. And there's things that, you know, we're good at seeing the better outcome rather than the worst.

25:48And I don't know whether that's something that I can take credit for, but I was brought up with that outlook of life. You know, my dad's always said, you know, there's, you know, worse situations than what you're going through. Not me personally, like when we would, you know, say when I was a teenager or, and I used to say about life, you know, we're millionaires. We weren't millionaires. We, you know, we didn't have a lot, but he just meant like by health and we're living, we've got a roof over our head. And so I think that outlook in life has always carried me through. Going through bad times, it goes through my head.

26:25Come on, Colleen, get a grip. There's worse of people going through much worse of things than you. And I think that's always gotten me through things. Yeah. I mean, without a doubt, it just goes back to that resilience of going, I've got to pick myself back up and get on with it, which is not easy. And sometimes you might have to get, you know, you could draw a line under and say, you know, this is... But with me and Wayne, you know, I've always said there was always love still there. So why throw it away when you can work at it? If you work at it and it doesn't work, then, you know, forget about it then and, you know, go separate ways.

27:00But there's always been love. There's always been, we've never wanted to part, but situations are set in where it could have happened. And, you know, we mightn't have got through it, but we have. and that's the way, you know, I've got to look at it and hopefully, you know, that's, it's, you know, going to be like that for the rest of our, you know, it's going to be a nice, smooth sailing marriage. Yeah. I don't know whether you can get one of them. No, no, no, no marriages. We can all make assumptions about perfect couples. They don't exist. There's always huge ups and downs. Does working through stuff to you mean having really honest chats, open dialogue with Wayne?

27:40Is that something that you are good at as a couple? It's my, you know, just get it out on the table. Just say it because there's no point in keeping it in because that's where you get yourself all worked up. And I've seen that happen to so many people. Even with the kids, I say, get it out, deal with it. Get your punishment done and then move on. Like one of my sons, the eldest, going back years ago, he'd come home one night and I knew something had gone on. I said to him, what's, you know, what's something on your mind? He said, I'd done a prank call to one of the kids in school on the school bus on the way home.

28:13He said, and his parents are going to come into the school. I was like, well, do you think you should have done that? He said, no. I said, well, there you go. I said, in the morning, you go straight into school. You tell the teacher. I said, and then whatever happens then, you deal with. I said, but she will appreciate you more for going in, owning up. Before them, parents call. I said, and you sit there all day, you know, anxious, waiting for that call to come out of the classroom. I said, you just do it before that, and then you'll feel better. So he did. And, you know, the teacher said, I'm, you know, really impressed of how he's done that.

28:47So that's always been my, you know, way of dealing with situations is, you know, truth is the best thing. Get it out on the table. And because I think actually, certainly in marriages, when we're not articulating ourselves as we want, that always turns to resentment. Yeah. And that is a horrible place to be. It feels like shit. So actually just saying what's on your mind, having that open dialogue, it feels messy and sticky, but it's actually always going to lead to a better outcome. Yeah. And sometimes people don't like to hear the truth and it can cause, you know, arguments and it can cause ongoing arguments.

29:24But, you know, again, you've just got to work through it.

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30:59Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org. Hey, I'm Dr. Z, and I'm a neurosurgeon. So that means long hours, early rounds, late nights, and everything in between. And through it all, I wear figs. They're comfortable when it counts and functional when I need them the most. So where do you wear your figs? On shift, on call, on the couch in the break room listening to this podcast? Wherever it is, they fit right in. And now listeners of this podcast can get 15 % off their first order. Just head to wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. I mean, looking now at your eldest, as you say, he's a similar age to when you met Wayne, but also when the public eye was just on you guys in a huge way.

31:48You were only 16 when you were being papped on the way back from school. And actually, before this chat, I was sort of Googling those pictures. And I was like, this is actually creepy. You're in a school uniform, walking back from school with your rucksack on, being papped. I mean, what was that like for you? It was, yeah, it was weird. But, you know, when you're in a situation, it doesn't seem real. It's not now when you say look back on it. I think when you look back on a lot of things back in the day in the press, it was quite creepy. But that, I was walking to school and I was seeing a man at the end of the road with his car bonnet up and then a camera at the top of it.

32:28And I went into school and I said to a few of the girls, but then we got back to the teacher and she called me. She was like, I think we're going to have to ring your parents and just let them know because, you know, we don't feel that it's right that someone was doing that. And then Wayne had called at my house that morning because he was going off to play football somewhere. So what they had done is followed him and then knew someone was going to come out of the house and waited for me. And then on this, I think it was the Sunday, my nan was on the phone. Have you seen the papers? I was like, what?

33:00And it was in, I think it was like near the front, big picture of me walking to school in the uniform. But yeah, it was, I don't know, it was just crazy. There was no, like obviously I was Wayne's girlfriend, but there was nothing else to it. But that's where it's all come from, from just, you know, like that photograph walking to school. Yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's weird. Did you, was it strange going to school? Were your friends treating you differently? Were kids saying anything to you? So at the time when it all happened, there was a bit of like, it was a weird excitement. You know, everyone was like, what's going on?

33:34I would have loved it. I would have been like, my mate's been papped. This is amazing. So everyone else. But for me, I was a bit, you know, obviously Wayne had been papped a few times. So I knew that what it was like for him. But I couldn't get my head around why they would be interested in me. But yeah, the school was a bit, there was one time where I thought, no, you're going a bit too far now. was we were doing the production, we were doing Bugsy Malone and they had press trying to come in to the school hall to watch it. It was like parents and friends and family and one of the teachers got me before the performance and was like, we've just had to put some more people on the door and I was asking people who they're here to see.

34:16He said because someone's been flagged up and it's someone from the press that's coming in to watch the whole play. To watch a school production of Bugsy Malone? I'm glad they never because I was Fat Sam.

34:29It was an all-girls school, so we had to play male roles, and I was fat-hams. It's wild. I mean, what crazy times. The press in this country are obviously... I don't even have a word to describe them, but they love to build up an underdog, and they love to pluck people from obscurity and go, look at these guys. And obviously, you weren't plucked from obscurity, because Wayne had a really thriving football career at the time, I mean, you're an innocent couple going about your business, but they love to build people up and go, this is the golden couple. We're going to follow everything they do. We're going to find out their nan's name and where they live and all of this detail.

35:07And then they love to pull them down. That is their favorite. It's like a little process we see happen after whether it's a reality show or a new pop star that's out, build them up and then drag them down. How have you dealt with that? Because you do. And I've been through it myself. You know, I was on radio and being papped every day and I couldn't do anything wrong. And then they absolutely went for me in every way they possibly could. And you get used to being not only papped, but also talked about in a relatively either innocuous or positive way. And then when you're gunned down, it feels horrendous.

35:43I mean, I remember questioning everything about my own personality. Like, is there something wrong with me? People aren't telling me. Am I awful at my job? it really chips away at your confidence. For you, in those moments where they have gone for you, they've attacked you or your family, how have you mentally coped with that? You know, it hurts. I think the younger I was, the more I took on boards, the more I thought, why are you being nasty? You know, it's not... And nasty is a nice word to use. But I did, when I was younger, I did get on the phone to a few journalists and say, how can you write something about a young girl like that and bring me family into it that was a big thing once they brought me family into it I went on the attack because you've got you know you've got a right to say something about me this is when I've started doing some work within I've you know I've put myself into it now so I've got to accept some things but you do not bring my family into it and that's where I did go into the you know I did attack and say you've got no right to speak about anyone else, even my friends.

36:48You know, they've spoke about my friends in a bad way before. And I've just said, no, you need to draw a line. You can say whatever you want about me and I'll take it, but you cannot say anything about my friends and family. And that was more hurtful because the things they're saying about me, I can take, I know they're not true. And as long as everyone around me who were important to me know that, then that's fine. but the people that they're talking about haven't put themselves out there to get talked about, you know. And no one puts themselves out there to get talked about in a bad way but you know there's going to be some...

37:25Yeah. You're not everyone's cup of tea. Yeah. You know, there's going to be some comments, there's going to be opinions and I always say, okay, people have got opinions and I've got to take that on board but not bring anyone else into it. That was the hardest thing for me. Yeah, it's not cool. No. It's really not cool. it's a horrible horrible feeling I would say Wayne struggled with it more than me he struggled and he spoke out about ease but ease had it ten times worse than what I've had it but yeah I think it's just it's not fair and also football fans are pretty horrible a lot of the time like we had Gary Neville on recently and we were at our Happy Place Festival lovely lovely audience he was like oh my god this audience is so nice It's like football fans can be so vile.

38:14So, you know, Wayne's got that as well. He's got the press. He's also got people shouting stuff at you. It's horrible. And still, like, even now he's managing and you still get, you know, the away fans shouting and chanting. And it's not nice. You're sitting in the stands. You've got children there. But it's gone on for years and I don't think it's going to change any time soon. So you've got to take it on board and just, you know, brush it off and think that's what it happens yeah yeah i mean if you shouldn't it shouldn't but i think if you do focus on it too much you literally drive yourself mad i think you know some of the people you understand how people in the public eye go into rehab have mental issues you know it's so it's so easy to get caught up in overthinking things and taking it all on board where I've always said I'm thankful for my, you know, strong mindset that I've had to get on with it and to see, you know, and also think, you know, some of these people, well, most of them mustn't be happy with their own lives because they're attacking other people's lives.

39:21I couldn't imagine myself doing that to anyone else. I would be, you've just got to be a nasty piece of work to do that. So that, you know, and that's what me and my dad always said, you know what you should feel sorry for them yeah because they're not in the right you know headspace and they're not good people to be doing a happy person wouldn't bother they'd be focusing on their own life being joyful and doing whatever is making them feel good i mean you had to grow up incredibly quickly you left school you got engaged really young you moved into a home with wayne really young you were just propelled into this adult life did you feel like an adult yes um a lot of the times it obviously haven't you know been engaged and living you know in a house with Wayne and I just yeah I felt like I was an adult but I still had them times where I'd go to my friends and they were all still in the parents houses we'd still sit in someone's bedroom and I always remember when I got married I was young I was 23 when I got married I always remember going back to one of my friends house she still live where her mum was sitting and i said just think i'm a married woman we're still having sit-offs in bedrooms i always remember another time we went behind we used to hang around by a sports center and they'd been a party in the local pub there and we all you know we all got it was last orders we all come out and we're all standing on like the wall where we used to all hang around and again i thought oh i'm back you know a married woman standing on the wall where we all used to and yet I don't feel you know I didn't feel old but I felt like I was mature you know I did you know there was times where I think oh no I'm you know I'm still done all the things that my friends were doing but I did have an independence that they didn't you know um and I think we had to to be we had to just be wise we We had to be more switched on than what people that age are.

41:23We had to understand how things work. And, yeah, I say it was, to be honest, it's become quite natural to us. And I don't know whether that's because we had good guidance around us and we got to a point where we knew that we couldn't do some things that everyone else was doing or we could do, but we'd done it in a private space. Yeah. Not that we'd done anything bad. No, no, just being 23-year-olds. I mean, I find it impressive because I think of myself at 23. I was an absolute mess. I mean, I was doing great work and I had a job that I really loved, but, oh, my God, I was all over the shop. I was definitely not mature enough to get married.

42:04I was definitely not mature enough to think about having children. I think it's amazing that you did manage that fast track, out of necessity, like you say, because you had so much thrown at you. And I guess also you had that natural desire for a sense of family because family has always been really important to you and something that's been just naturally in your life since birth. Your parents seem like really good eggs who just want to create a beautiful atmosphere in the home. Not only having you and your siblings, but also they were respite care for families. They were fostering children as well.

42:40That's quite an extraordinary way to grow up. Yeah, my mum loves and loves children. And that, I think, from my mum, she was a nursery nurse. And she tried seven years to have me. I was on fertility drug. But she said she got married at 18. And she said that all she wanted was to be a mum. And when she had me, me two brothers followed on. They just come naturally. and then when we got to a you know an age where we were a bit more independent I was I think it was about 12 um she sat us down and said she helped out with the local hospital and the church and they done you know like took kids on holiday that couldn't go on holiday and they so they helped out with that so then they decided that they would like to foster and do respite care so they sat the three of us down and said this is what we would like to do but we would only like to do it if you want to do it as well and we were like yeah yeah we obviously we used to having kids in the heart you know cousins and friends so we were we didn't spat an eyelid it was just normal to us but um it started and we'd have you know children with disabilities we'd have um when they done did fostering, we picked up newborn babies from the hospital.

44:02I thought it was great. I was playing mum, pushing prams. It was special what they'd done. At the time, we just thought they were just babysitting. But as we got older, we realised that you've got to be a certain type of person to do that and to give your time. I'm sure you feel differently about it now, being a mum of your own kids. It takes someone incredibly special to have the capacity to take on other kids and kids that need desperate care, might have emotional issues. It's amazing. Well, they always said that, you know, they knew how much they longed for children. And, you know, these babies or children that were in foster care, they were going to someone that, you know, long.

44:48So when they left us, you know, we got attached to some of them and we said, you know, it wasn't fair that they were leaving us. And then their explanation was, well, they're going to someone who really wants them and has longed for them. And so we would accept that. You know, we accepted that they're going to a family that can't have kids or you just really want to adopt. So, yeah, it was a nice message. And then we got Rosie. Yeah. She came along. She came and it was a long-term fostering. And she was nearly two. and my mum said we're going to have this little girl for a bit longer than what we've had the other ones and she came and straight away everyone just fell in love with her and at this stage she could she could crawl she could um but we just thought you know she'd she'd been neglected and she couldn't do the things that kids their age were able to do because she never got shown that by you know who she was with and then we it was my mum really my mum like said there's more to it than this she'd been around a lot of kids with disabilities and um and illnesses and stuff so she said uh there's something else so then she went you know and asked questions and researched and and then it ends up being a genetic syndrome called ret syndrome and then we knew you know what was expected of that and um the down you know it's a lot of downsides to it but she you know she was big inspiration to us all she you know she had a smile on her face and not just to our family to just people who met her you know people would take away you know the whole thing of that you you're just someone worse off than you oh she's battling and she's in pain but she's still got a smile on her face and she's still enjoying life and no she was special and you know she still My kids only Kai met but doesn't remember.

46:41But they talk about her as if she's still, you know, they spent a lifetime with her because that's how we've dealt with it, speaking in the family and just keeping her spirit alive. Yeah, I mean, she was your sister. She ended up very much being your sister and that beautiful relationship that you all had with her. I mean obviously when there's a diagnosis you know roughly that there's going to be some pain and heartache along the way she died when she was 14 I mean how did that hit you guys how did that impact you as a family even though you I don't think it takes away any of the grief knowing I really don't no it's you know it you know you can say it prepares you in a way she had you know a few bad stints before that where she'd been in hospital and we didn't know whether you know it was going to get worse or but she battled through and she came out there are numbers of Christmases we spent in you know in hospital it always seemed to be you know an immune system went down in the winter and she got chest infections and so she always seemed to be in for long times over the winter periods and especially Christmas so we all used to go you know Christmas and spoiler and and yeah that was and it was you know it was a hard family situation as well because you know you don't want to be spending your christmas day in hospital but we've done anything for it and that was you know that's no matter what we were there no it doesn't take away the pain no one but you can prepare yourself in a way that it's going to happen at some point it's going to happen to everyone at some point in life but at an early age that's the thing to you know it's hard to How did your parents get through that?

48:26Because that's a hell of a thing to go through. Yeah, they struggled, but they've always put on a brave face for everyone else. But the amount of times where I've heard them crying and going to bed at night and it's not nice to hear, but that's when they're releasing their sorrows. But no, they did have bereavement counselling and that was all through the hospice she went to which is a fantastic setup because they take everything in their hands and make it as comfortable as possible for the child for the families and they'll continue until forever if you needed it or you know until you feel okay and every year the hospice put on a remembrance service where we all go and you know let off balloons and um it's yeah it's it's really you know it's just so supportive for all them families and um but no it's it is it's it's hard to lose anyone but a child you know as a parent I think that's even harder yeah you can't get your head around it it's it just feels all wrong and very very tricky to navigate and as you say you know that support and care is essential for families going through that grief.

49:47And, you know, I've always said, you know, the hospital, the children's hospital that she went to was unbelievable as well, always made us feel welcome, always, you know, I had Kai at the time, they'd always entertain him as well where they could. But the hospice used to do respite where, you know, they could stay over and give the parents a break and they'd done lots of stuff for siblings and that's important because having a child with, you know, disabilities, the parents are 24-7 and the parents spend a lot of time. So as I said before, where I like to spread my time amongst the kids, it's hard for parents who've got children who've got illnesses.

50:31So I think where the hospices come on board, they allow the parents to have a break to then give the other siblings support and you know you know even if it's just a day out somewhere and give them attention it's so important it's so important how do you think you deal with stress because that you know we i've as we've said heard you say a lot that you crack on you get on with it grief slightly different flavor that's something that you've got to deal with probably for life yeah but stress when it hits you we all deal with it differently i probably i'm prone to having a bit of a tantrum I'll just freak out and I'm quite loud about everything and it all spills out and quite explosive.

51:16How do you deal with stress? It depends on what type of stress it is. You know, like stress, but in the, you know, overload of, you know, say homework and stuff. I wouldn't even say that's stress. That's just chaos in the house. You know, I can snap sometimes, but I've always tended to, you know, emotional stress. I've always kept it in. and I know I say what I have to say but there is times where I've just thought I don't need to offload on someone else and give them my stress. So until I feel it's the right time to then offload or sometimes it goes away and I deal with it myself but I don't, I've always said I hate putting other people in a situation where they've got their stress as well.

52:05I don't want to offload it on them But you know the people, if you've got a close-knit family and friends group, you know the people you can offload on. You know the people who are going through times where they don't need your stress. So keep it in for now and then you'll tell them when or if you want. I'm not that disciplined. I would say I am more of a quiet, if it's personal and emotional stress to do with me, if it's stress off someone else, I'll let them know. Yeah. If they're causing me stress. I mean, you went through the most stressful time of your life with the court case and that was all consuming.

52:45You can't really think of much else when you're going through something like that. And there's the public eye watching the whole thing play out, too. Were you able to deal with that sort of on your own during that time? That was that was a really stressful time. And to be honest with you, I like now put it all behind me. have done you know I've released that stress and I think you know I just I'm just looking forward to not dwelling on that again going back to support a support group and that has always been my friends and family I think you know if I didn't have them maybe I might not have got through it but I did and and also as we went back at the beginning to you know telling the truth and carrying on and getting on with it I think that was part of getting through all that stress and that time but now I'm in a better place now and it's yeah it was it was it was difficult but I'm in a much better I'm more present and that's where I feel like I've got more time to give you know to the children more time to think about myself and also to to go back to work and do projects and which is is good I did walk out the door this morning and one of my kid said do you actually live here and i was like because i've gone through a period of not doing much to then obviously doing quite a few things at the one time and i was like are you met what do you mean he's like why are you going out again today doing something for me mate but that was because i left before they go to school i try and do a lot you know a lot of it i try and do um close to home but this morning i had to leave before school but they do they get comfort of me dropping them off at school.

54:26Yeah, it's nice if you can do it. But this morning I couldn't, so that was what I got back, was do you actually live here? Yeah, thanks, mate. I've just actually grown you and brought you up. I mean, what are you looking forward to? You're going to turn 40 in two years? Yes. How are you feeling about that? Who is Colleen at 40? Do you know what? I don't really think of age. I think as long as you feel young and able to do things, I think age, you know, people say it's just a number. But no, I don't... Saying that, when I got to 30, I did have a bit of a... I remember being on holiday just before my 30th birthday and a bit of anxiety set in, but I don't know why.

55:09It was strange. It was like, is this because I'm turning 30 or is this just... I don't know, it was weird. I think because we're told that it's got this weight and this meaning when you move into a new decade. 40 you know what does that even mean it's such a strange one to get your head around and am I doing the things that I want to be doing and you start questioning everything yeah no I think you know just you know want the kids to to still be happy and successful in what they're doing and you know they're all going down different paths and enjoying different things which is good. I would like to be, you know, still active and just, yeah, still have a happy house and still have a happy madhouse.

55:54Exactly. I mean, your eldest is going into the football world, knowing the pitfalls, knowing how the press work. Have you had to have a chat with him about that or was it too early? Well, do you know what? The academies, because he's at an academy at the minute, they are really good with all that. so we have workshops all the time around social media around things that you should be doing and shouldn't be doing nutrition um so i think obviously the way the world's gone social media mad they prepare them at a younger age now wayne didn't have any of that you know it was not the case at the time but now they do and it's all you know if you put something up now you might regret it when you're older if you do become a public figure and we've had them chats as well i think it's important that you lay the rules down earlier than later because it becomes a natural thing to them then but no he's doing well you know he's still young but he's he's you know he's doing well at school as well so he's like oh well you know i don't know whether i'm gonna stay on i was like no you are staying on you are staying on um he's yeah i just think you've always got to have a backup i've seen him for the football well because you know we was introduced to it really early I've seen unfortunate situations where boys have thought that they're going to get into you know the first team and then it's just all gone downhill and they haven't got into a team then they left and they're having to start again really because they've left school you know they go and do an apprentice somewhere and I would just like my boys to have a bit of a backup and like Kai now he's doing he loves Spanish which I said you know that could take you places and you could do So even if you're not a football player, you could get into football in some other way.

57:40And, you know, if you've got a language, even better. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So all he hear now at the minute is Spanish rap. Spanish rap? How niche. Yeah. So he's asked to kind of go to a concert for this, I forget what his name is, something I'm going with, a Spanish rapper. Wow. I like this. What a niche hobby. I'm into it. Well, I know, as we've discussed, you've got your four boys to go. You've probably got homework to deal with, maybe Spanish rap. So thank you so much for being on the podcast. And it's just been so lovely having a catch up with you. Thank you. It's been great to talk to you.

58:17Thank you very much. Thanks, Colleen. I really enjoyed that. What a lovely human you are and how you juggle it all. I have no idea. It was so lovely to chat to Colleen. Just a ray of sunshine. Are you following us on Instagram? we're over on at happy place official that is the place where we can carry on this conversation during the week if there's something that really jumped out in that conversation that you want to talk about if there's a comment that you have or a story of your own you want to share or you just want to see other pina scenes goings on at happy place that's where you can see it over on our happy place instagram i'll look forward to chatting to you there i also love chatting to Colleen about the gorgeous fostering her parents did.

59:01If you want to know more about foster care, if that is a subject you're interested in, we've done some lovely episodes on foster care. The episode with Ashley John Baptiste is so special and just fully, deeply emotional. And also the brilliant Lem Cisset, who's one of my favourite writers and poets who has a lot to say on the matter. There'll be links in the show notes for those two. All right, I'm back here next week, but until then a massive thanks again to Colleen to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and the biggest thanks of all to you I love you loads

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