Dita Von Teese: “You don’t look like a Playboy girl!” How to value your unique differences

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that brings out your sparkly inner confidence. Today, I'm chatting to Dieter Von Teese. When I was, you know, in my 20s trying to figure it out, I certainly could have pandered. And I, there was definitely points where I was trying to, you know, be in Playboy magazine. Like, you do not look like a Playboy girl. And I was like, so that's why you should have me there. You know, I'm just going to stick with what I am. I always thought there was a value in being a little bit different. And everyone's going to have a different way of looking at it.

0:30So what makes one person feel empowered may make another person feel degraded. And I think the ultimate feminism is respecting each other's choices, even if it's not for you. I've been in quite a sparkly mood recently. I mean, obviously, it's not all ups, there's ups and downs. But I had a very good up weekend when I went to a birthday party in Ibiza. And as you might well know, I love a sequin. I wore a little sparkly blue dress for that, which I loved so much. I've now bought it in purple, haven't I? Because I felt bloody good in it. And it really leads on to the theme of this podcast this week.

1:03because I believe there is great power in clothes and just your general exterior and how you want to dress it, making you feel bloody good. And that weekend, this party I went to, you know, I'm not a massive party. I haven't been to that many parties in the last decade, but I really felt the need to go for it. And it was really liberating. And I put this dress on and I felt fucking fantastic in that dress. And I danced around all night long, spinning around, almost like a sort of kid, just having the best time. It was really, really euphoric. So the lessons I learned from that weekend, go out dancing more.

1:41Because as adults, so boring. You never go dancing, do you? It's like, when do you go dancing? At a wedding. Apart from that, I don't go dancing. When you're a kid, you're always dancing about. Go dancing more. Wear clothes that make you feel bloody brilliant. And I don't know what the third bit of advice is from that weekend. like don't drink too much tequila because I felt like shit the next day. But it was honestly so fun. And Seat Quins and Sparkle very much were at play. So let's talk about our incredibly gorgeous sparkly guest this week. Dita Von Teese has been the absolute queen of burlesque for decades.

2:14And now she's bringing her signature glamour to the West End of London. She's produced and is performing in Diamonds and Dust. Guys, we're talking high stakes stunts in rhinestone cowboy boots, which is very me at the moment. Topics that we chat about. Explaining how she got onto the scene in the first place, because it's quite a niche scene. Getting more comfortable with being assertive, which is, I think, something many of us struggle with. And also, we have a big chat about nudity and stripping and sexiness and how to feel sexy, which I think some of us, I mean, I certainly have periods of my life, sort of let slide.

2:50That's a really interesting one. The market's uncertain. revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using upwork to keep work moving go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast no bulky overhead no rigid long-term contracts just the right expert right when you need them work smarter and faster with upwork go to upwork.com now and find your freelance expert that's upwork.com Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors.

3:31And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. This podcast is supported by The RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping. And this is the sound of fashion overload.

4:07Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with The RealReal. I've always loved collecting designer pieces. Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal? Game changer. I earn more, and they do everything. Seriously, just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell, fast, to our 38 million members. And I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere else. Exactly. This? That's the sound of your closet working for you.

4:44The RealReal. Earn more. Save time. Sell fast. And right now, you can get an extra$100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra$100. therealreal.com. That's therealreal.com. We all have that piece. You know the one. The thing that's so you, you've basically become known for it. And if you don't have yours yet, you'll find it on eBay. Let me put you on, fashionistas. eBay is where you'll find those one-of-a-kind, can't-stop-researching, stay-up-dreaming-about-pieces. Again and again. I'm talking that Miu Miu off the runway red leather bomber, the Custo Barcelona top with the cowboy on it, or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway.

5:27All these finds are on eBay, and they even offer millions of main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. eBay is the place for pre-loved and vintage fashion. eBay, things people love.

5:44okay this great fun chat with dita is coming up so shortly but first a quick reminder the happy place festival in gunnersbury park london is this weekend guys it's this weekend oh my goodness have you got weekend plans if not there's a few tickets left go run and get one and come and get a ticket and come along to the festival just go to happyplacefestival.com Bring a load of mates or come on your own. There are always loads of solo festival goers and everyone is so bloody friendly you'll make some new great mates. You can book into workshops. There's arts and crafts. There's yoga. There's breathwork.

6:17There's sound bars. Or grab yourself some delicious food and get a coffee and chill out listening to talks from brilliant people. Some of whom you've probably heard on this podcast. If you want a really gorgeous day or whole weekend out where you know you're going to feel better than when you arrived, this is the festival for you. Get your tickets at happyplacefestival.com. All right, here we go. This is the show.

7:01Hi, Dieter. Hi. I'm so happy to meet you. It's nice to meet you too. Long time fan. So this is like a wonderful opportunity for me to sit and quiz you today about everything. I wish I had a like a martini glass or something for you to sit in rather than a kind of shit wooden chair. I'm actually quite comfortable in this. Welcome back to the UK. You've spent actually quite a lot of time here this year, no? Yeah. Well, I was here in January. Yeah. Looking at the space for our new theatre. But yeah, I've come here a lot over the years. It kind of comes in waves and I'll be here just about every month the rest of the year.

7:34Yeah. And next. Well, you've got your show kicking off in the West End. Tell us about that. It's called Diamonds and Dust. It's a plot driven spectacle in the West End. And it's really different than any other show that I have. I basically have three shows running simultaneously and they're all very different. But this is about a historical figure named Kitty Leroy, who is a woman who lived in Deadwood City and had a really like fast and crazy life. and so it's about her life but told within you know the fantasy and spectacle of burlesque and there's there's cirque there's fire there's stunts there's you know a little bit of everything yeah i want to see this do you feel like i guess i love going to see live music and i love going to theater and watching plays i sort of don't do it as much as i should or want to but i think because we live in such a digital world now it feels like people want a live experience more than ever they They want to feel something and like see art maybe.

8:32They need that more than ever. Yeah, I feel that. I feel that, you know, I have my Las Vegas show. My residency has been running for the past year and a half. And I feel like I'm fortunate that people are still coming out to shows despite what's happening in the world. It seems like people want a little bit of escapism and beauty and glamour and spectacle. Yeah, we need it. We need it. I think when you, you know, if it's like collective tough times or you're going through a tough time, having that is escapism, isn't it? Just completely switching off, even if it's for a couple of hours and just letting your brain flatline and just like watching it and imbibing it.

9:07It's so important. Better than just scrolling. It's like you can't really escape anything when you're scrolling. So I don't know. For me, it's like seeing something beautiful, art, nature, you know, things that are beautiful that remind you of why you're, you know, the things that give you pleasure. Yeah, of course. I mean, art is like a hotline to that, isn't it? I find if I even just walk around an art gallery, I love going to galleries at weekends and I love painting. So just to sort of see it is that it's almost like an inexplicable connection to something, something bigger. Yes. I love that feeling.

9:41Me too. Me too. So you are the Queen of Bilesque. We all know you as that. And you've really brought it to the forefront because there's obviously been periods throughout history where it's been really prominent and it's been a mainstream way of entertaining. But then there's been dips where it's kind of been wiped out and we haven't seen it as much. You've really championed it from day dot. And this is something that you were interested in from almost childhood. Yeah, almost. What do you say drew you to it? Because it's not the everyday that a young kid would be drawn to, whether it's that kind of old school glamour and the art of burlesque.

10:18What do you think captured your imagination? Well, I think the first thing is when I grew up in a very small town with 2000 people in Michigan and my mother liked she collected antiques and she loved old movies. So that was like the imprint. The first imprint on me was watching these old movies and musicals with, you know, Betty Grable and Hedy Lamarr and Rita Hayworth. And it just like I was so enthralled by that, especially Technicolor, because it was like a cartoon. You know, if you ever watched a real like 40s era Technicolor movie, it's very like otherworldly. So that really had an imprint on me early on.

10:55And it kind of always stayed with me. And I was very like when I grow up, I'm going to wear red lipstick and I'm going to wear my hair and curls. And so, yeah, here we are. Yeah. Long time later. So that was the first thing. And then when I was a teenager, I worked in the lingerie store and I got very interested in like the history of lingerie, like pinup era lingerie. and then when I first got out of high school actually like got brought to a a rave in 1990 I just graduated and suddenly somebody was like we're gonna go to this party and I was like my eyes were open to this crazy world of like club kids and people having a good time and dressing up and that kind of sparked another thing in me and um and yeah I started being a I was a performance artist and dancer in that rave scene.

11:42And then I wandered into a strip club and I was kind of like already dressing in vintage. And I walked into a strip club and I was like, this is kind of cool. And there's nobody like doing like vintage style strip tees in here. And so that's kind of what started me on that. And then I started the first ever pinup website on the World Wide Web. Yes. So it was just kind of like all of these things. I became like a famous fetish model, like the modern Betty Page. It was like all these things happening kind of all in the same, like first, like early 90s. So I'm imagining when you first started to, whether it's, you know, the combination of like getting into that whole scene and understanding the history of lingerie and the power of, I guess it's finding your style and finding that thing that empowers you and makes you feel good.

12:35And I guess when it's so visual, it's kind of a uniform and maybe even obviously it makes you feel amazing, but also in ways like a suit of armor. Like it is your sort of protection in a way. Yeah. A big thing for me is like, you know, I'm a dishwater blonde. We're kind of like people, some people have seen me in my Halloween costume where I wear a blonde wig and I like take all the red nail polish and lipstick off. And you're unrecognizable. I'm unrecognizable. Yeah. Yeah. I look like a maybe like kind of like Paris Hilton or like, yeah. Anyway, it's a fun, like it's a weird psychological experiment for me.

13:13Yes. Everything changes. But yeah, I feel like I was very shy, like painfully shy when I was a kid. Like they sent me to speech class and I'm like, I can talk. I'm just don't know what to say. So I was always very shy and it was kind of like turning you know turning myself into like a femme fatale was like a way of finding my confidence and feeling like powerful yeah so it started off like as that and I think of course it's evolved and I have found my like voice in other ways at you know growing older helps you know or being thrown into things where you're like I'm going to challenge myself which when you're you know 19 it's can be a little bit it was harder for me yeah it's not harder for everybody but it was hard for me to find myself why do you think that was sort of looking back on childhood well I look back I guess I think about like when I look at how things are now I feel like I didn't have a lot of like role models like female role models that could show me or tell me how I could say no or stand up for myself you know it was different and it's like I'm 52 it's like it was just different I feel very like I could see like how I felt like I couldn't say no to people or I couldn't like how to assert myself with men who were coming on to me in the wrong way and just being like, oh, I just have to like flirt back with, you know, like I have to be this way because otherwise they're going to people say that I'm a bitch or whatever.

14:42So I think like I like seeing the way that women are getting like better messages about how to like have, you know, control over their lives. Like, you know, it's interesting. It just feels interesting to live. And I was listening to Cher's autobiography. It's so good. Oh, I need to read this. It's so great, especially like her reading it. It's interesting like her path and like how different it was for her when she was coming up and how she was treated. by men in power positions. It's really interesting to hear that. So I think about that a lot. Like my generation, I think about her generation and excited for like younger generations who have access to more information.

15:26Yeah, I feel the same. I think, you know, me and my friends talk about this all the time. And again, a lot of our listeners who are sort of, you know, predominantly women who are in that era of life going, oh my God, nobody taught me how to advocate for myself or say no. or set a boundary and many of us have ended up kind of people pleasing and then feeling fucking miserable or resentful. And I think you're so right whether it was in a familial sense or just looking culturally at the landscape at that time. Nobody was really telling us how to do it and you have to be the good girl and make sure that you act in a certain way so you don't piss anyone off.

16:05And even now, like in co-directing this show, it's like I still catch myself feeling like a bitch like when I say I don't like that or this isn't right and you know like when I have to correct something in it I don't know how other people feel but it makes me feel like people are like rolling their eyes or saying like this bitch you know but I have very like specific things that I want and I think like I bet I bet I probably maybe a lot of it is how I feel because that imprint is on me yeah I think it's and it does I know you know men and women will feel like this but I think so many women feel like that especially in the work arena they can't assert themselves and say I don't like it done that way or you know can we ditch that all together you know you feel I feel like it all the time deeply uncomfortable because we have this inherent thing we want to be liked and we don't want people bitching about us whatever but I think you're so right it's often we're the ones projecting yeah It may or may not be.

17:04It may or may not be. I don't know. I know, it's so hard. Do you think you are just getting better at that through experience and giving it a go? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you feel, but I feel like with every decade, I get a little bit more assertive or a little caring less, you know, like even when I look back at myself as a performer in her like 20s or 30s and I think about like I was, there were things I was more worried about like what my body looked like then than I do now, you know, like Like it's crazy. Like, you know, more regimented. Like, oh, I can't only eat this. And that was like another thing that people would put on me.

17:40Like, but not so, you know, and I don't feel that way anymore. But I feel like a lot of it is, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I have a lot of like elderly lady friends. I like being friends with the ladies who are 80, 90 and 100 years old. And I love talking to them. And you do get the feeling like, oh, with actually like real aging, there's something that you know there's an evolution right that happens where you care a little bit less and you say things like yeah that maybe you wouldn't have said when you were younger oh yeah me and my cousin would always talk about my my nan who's no longer with us but she lived till she was like 93 and she would just say the thing yeah and we'd go sometimes we're like god yeah like do that but actually like i want to be more like that yeah but i just want to care less i think you're right it's just a natural evolution that it's kind of like the way kids are like yeah like just like say what they think and then like you get to a certain humblings of life and you're like yeah I know we all get so conditioned and I think it is so tricky when you're growing up and you want to keep the peace and make sure that everybody is happy around you and then you end up shrinking yourself actually and feeling like you're not quite sure who you are and then I don't know I feel like when I turned 40 a few years back I started to really feel that shift and I'm by no means that like where my nan was but you know I want to get even bolder in saying how I feel and never with meanness or to cause anyone no harm but to be honest about being honest I guess isn't it just saying the thing you need to say yeah and I think actually the cost of not doing that is too great and maybe you learn that the hard way I certainly did do you feel like that yeah yeah I think you know in all types of relationships mostly too I think of like friend relationships romantic relationships it's like that's the only way that's the only way to be really yeah it is and sometimes you you know you will piss people off or lose people but you know it's probably still better than suppressing what you're really thinking and feeling and sure I mean I guess to a degree you must have had this inbuilt sense of who you were at quite a young age to be doing things differently to want to wear vintage clothes and I'm sure there weren't many other kids wanting to dress like that knowing that you were standing out you know amongst the other children or the other teenagers or young people how did you do sort of deal with that uh I don't know I mean I feel like I don't know I kind of just did what I want I didn't I I think more about like when I was a teenager and I started really like dressing in vintage and performing burlesque shows and all that kind of stuff.

20:28And I guess I always just felt like this is like my world and I'm going to always try to remember that like people are not always going to like what you do or understand, you know, and I'm kind of, I mean, if people still occasionally ask me why I'm dressed like this or where I'm going or what I'm doing, what's the occasion, like living is the occasion, try it, you know. But yeah, I don't know. I guess I just felt like I always liked the idea of being different and standing out a little bit, you know? I never minded it. And I thought like, if somebody is making fun of me, it's fine. Because guess what?

21:03I might be making fun of you for what you're wearing. No, you know what I mean? Like sometimes I can't wrap my head around like when people wear all this like sports stuff and I'm sort of like, oh, it's so weird to wear somebody else's advertising. Yeah. It's weird to me. You know? So I think of that or how I think it's weird. Somebody's walking around wearing advertisements or whatever you know whatever it is like I saw a pair of shoes that I was like oh this is the next level of Crocs I get it Crocs are gardening shoes I understand them as gardening shoes but there's now like this I saw these shoes made out of dirt and leaves and they're like a big gigantic clawed copper shoe wow and I was like wow you know like so I always kind of just go for all the people that go wow what is she wearing or whatever you know I think like wow what are you wearing so I kind of just keep it at that like they don't get me I don't get them it's totally fine absolutely lovely talking about how your clothes make you feel a moment ago and how I guess that has led you to feeling then more confident to assert yourself or do what you want to do do you still feel that way if you're having a day we wake up and you just feel like shit you just feel flat or you feel like you just want to be quiet and on your own does your whole look kind of help bring that out of you that yeah and I know how to be comfortable like I run around in like a circle skirt and a little sweater and ballet flats and I'm like very comfortable or you know I have I have my like I have like a cashmere robe I love to put on when I get home I'm just like oh thank you cashmere robe you know it's got like moth holes and stuff I don't care it's like my my blanket um but yeah I think sometimes people it's like the most common asked question I get in every interview is like do you ever just sit around wearing jeans and sweatpants and I'm like I mean it's not like I'm just sitting around wearing a feather robe and eating bonbons like I know how to be comfortable there's like you know I but I still have like a code I always think you never know who you're gonna run into yeah yeah absolutely my mom is always worried about if she to get carted off in an ambulance.

23:12Does she look fantastic? How will they cut her out? There's underwear matching. Yeah, exactly. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie.

23:54And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapers. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Life is full of exciting moments.

24:28Whether you're buying a new home, opening an account as you welcome a new family member, or planning for retirement, You need a bank that's there when it matters. At Atlantic Union Bank, you'll find helpful people and digital tools to make banking for all of life's moments a little easier because you deserve a financial partner who cares as much as you do. Call, visit us online, or drop by a branch to learn more. Atlantic Union Bank. Any way you bank. Riley Herbst from 2311 Racing checking in. Got a break in between team meetings? Sounds like the perfect time for some fast-paced fun at Chumba Casino.

25:05No waiting, just instant action to keep you going. So next time you need a pick-me-up, fire it up and take a spin. Play now at ChumbaCasino.com. Let's Chumba! No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Void where prohibited by law. CT &C's 21 Plus. Sponsored by Chumba Casino.

25:26And then when we look at the era where you first discovered burlesque, or was it stripping that came first and then you yeah the the stripping came well it was kind of like I was first the pin-up model and so I was looking I was collecting all these vintage men's magazines from the 30s and 40s and in those magazines a lot of the girls that posed for those pictures racy pictures which were not very racy at all they were burlesque dancers and I was like oh burlesque interesting and I'd seen the movie with Natalie Wood called Gypsy which there's a musical about it too and I just like so there was like it was kind of murky like trying to understand and I'd watch old movies and there'd be like, you know, young Lucille Ball played a burlesque dancer in this movie, or there's a movie with Barbara Stanwyck called Ball of Fire.

26:08And so I kind of like noticed, like I started like trying to dig deeper on the history of burlesque. And I kind of, it was all kind of happening at the same time. And I feel like the first time I ever really did like a proper burlesque show was actually in a fetish club in Los Angeles. And I bought my first pair of feather fans and I was you know I just had pictures to look at I didn't really have any video to base what I was doing on until like a few years later when somebody gave me a VHS tape with a little like compilation of real burlesque performers and by then I was kind of glad I had to make it up in my head because I created my own style yeah you know of dancing and fan dancing and all of that because I just had to imagine yeah exactly you weren't emulating anything and I mean how did you feel that first show did you feel comfy in your skin confident Yeah, I always felt, I don't know why, but I never felt weird about nudity at all.

27:02And I don't know if that's like, from my like, taking ballet classes all my life and being like, used to being in the mirror and like noticing body shape and wearing tights and leotards. And I don't really think I had like a bad, and I didn't feel like ashamed of my body. You know, I'm not sure where that comes from. yeah but and maybe it was also because you know when I was 19 I was also in a strip club I was in the rave scene it was like we were you know wearing crazy outfits running around in fishnet tights and hot pants and you know I just think it was I was around all of this like drag queen and club kid culture and then in a strip club and I feel like I was just kind of around people who were liberated and also like the strip club that I worked in was not like there was no nudity it was like a bikini club yeah and it was like that was a big thing in america in the like 80s and 90s were these like bikini clubs where you could you know girls danced around in their lingerie or bikinis there was a lot of rules so um i don't know i feel like i was just kind of like yeah i felt i felt also sometimes i look back and i go that does not seem like it was safe like when i was headlining strip clubs and driving through texas with my girlfriend and staying in like motels and walking around with like cash like what dollar bills and and trash bags like it's like crazy sometimes I go that was crazy yeah I know I think we I think most of us look back at that era and go god I probably shouldn't have been walking around Camden at four in the morning on my own drunk that seems like a terrible idea now do you know what I mean it's wild but I think stripping is such an interesting topic because everybody is quite a punchy subject to talk about and some people see it as empowering you know artistic beautiful others will see it as degrading sleazy whatever you know obviously your take on it is going to be positive because you've dedicated a part of your life to it and it's evolved into something very beautiful but how do you feel about the whole topic I mean you know having like started it in a certain era and it being one thing like when I first started for sure like I was a playboy model I was like a fetish queen.

29:13And like, I had a lot of male followers, you know, and then when I wrote my first book, it really shifted because I wrote a lot about why I love glamour and what it makes me feel for my confidence. And, you know, so my first book really like, flicked the switch on women following me. And certainly, I think, I think, I mean, I think about striptease, you know, I know that, you know, my understanding of striptease and its history, especially in America, the burlesque show, which was like American burlesque, like that idea of deliberately stripping to music with a band or, you know, on a big stage is like, it's an American thing.

29:56Yeah. And, you know, like I think about Gypsy Rose Lee and Lily St. Cyr and Sally Rand and all these like ladies. And so I have a different connotation for it or a different context and knowing the history. But I can understand if somebody doesn't really know that there's a history behind it. And I respect pole dancers and sex workers and, you know, like all of this as much as like anything. Because I've been in that scene. But I do think it's like art, you know. You can look at a painting on the wall and be like, it's ugly, it's beautiful, and everyone's going to have a different way of looking at it.

30:31So what makes one person feel empowered may make another person feel degraded. And I think the ultimate feminism is respecting each other's choices, even if it's not for you. And also, I've watched, I've listened to people talk about what I do, and it's like, if you haven't been to the show, sit down and shut up. because like it's 85 % female in the audience and the dudes that are in the audience, they're either gay or they're like, what am I at? They're there with their wife was like, she wanted tickets. You know, I don't understand why she wants to, you know, why does she want to come to a show like this?

31:06And then I have a stack of letters from men who are like, listen, I didn't know what this was. And we got there and the curtains opened. And for some reason, my girlfriend is just like tearing up about like this space you've created that feels like you know I've always had a cast of diverse performers and just as many men in the show as women so I think like if you don't know understand if you just like hear about like oh she does this striptease thing and you haven't seen it or been in that room then you can't really comment on it I agree and I think you know that's exactly what you've done you have created this space in this world where women want a bit of that I think most women and certainly women you know sort of our age want to feel good in their skin confident they want to feel sexy as well and I think that's a really interesting one is sexiness because I guess like the drudgery of the mundanity of everyday life that we can all slip into if you know we own to work or whatever going to the supermarket you don't necessarily feel that sexy I mean I'm generalizing but I think many women just feel like that maybe slightly wanes as you get older you might not feel as sexy as you did in your 20s or whatever it's it's where you feel more sexy but now you don't now you know how to handle your sexuality when you're young I mean I think about that I just think a lot about you know having you know when I first started touring with the show and you know giving a platform to burlesque performers that I think are amazing and really like you know not not actually like going oh I'm gonna make my show diverse because that's cool.

32:42It kind of happened naturally because I found that the people I was attracted to were doing things that were different than me. And I'm like, oh, this number is going to kill. But I think like, as I have been advancing in life and still doing this, like I never would have believed I'd still be doing this, but it's important for me. Like I see role models of like beauty and sensuality of women that are older than me. And it means something to me. So it was like a point where I was kind of like I gotta walk the walk like if I'm going to say if I'm going to believe that we should all be if I want to see other women be sexy and embrace their sensuality so they can inspire me I have to do the same I have to be willing to do the same thing and it's not always like that easy you know um but you know I think that it's important it's important for me and I think you know it's one of the reasons people keep coming to the show yeah completely I mean what do you do if you're not feeling sexy what makes you feel confident what makes you feel good what gets you on that stage well a lot of it is like controlling the circumstances right like you know I am creating a show where it's like I'm wearing what I feel good in I'm wearing the makeup that I like I'm got the lights are all you know built for glamour and you can kind of you can do the same thing around your house too the only problem is as soon as you leave you're sort of like oh boy I thought I looked good and now I'm in this lighting but you know I love like all these like having all these like colorful lights that I can put dim or high or you know lamps everywhere like thinking of ways to make your like space feel like sexy you know I push a button it's like oh sexy lighting oh you've got sexy lighting in the house yeah you know all those like lights you can program with colors I've got a lot of lamps but I don't have a sexy light I need to do that well you have to put like these smart light bulbs in your lamp so you can be like I'm gonna put some like pink light you do lavender I'm gonna put some blue light I'm gonna put some red light so I have those everywhere so that I can like make it or joyful for a party yeah and it's for you it's for you to feel good about yourself I think that's also the shift isn't it is rather than going this is for the male gaze or anyone else's gaze quite frankly this is for me to feel good about myself I mean it all has to start there like it did for me it's like certainly did for me because I when I was like you know in my 20s trying to figure it out I certainly could have like pandered and I you know there there was definitely points where I was trying to you know audition for being be in playboy magazine and like you do not look like a playboy girl and i was like so that's why you should have me there you know and it was very like i'm just gonna stick with what i am i always thought there was a value in being a little bit different so yeah and i think people it's easy to forget that i mean as you say it's got to start with you but there is obviously an element especially with the performative element of it where it is for other people Do you feel objectified ever?

35:26Do you mind?

35:31Interestingly, like the times I feel objectified are never to do with being on stage or doing what I do. It's always like other weird things like in life that you're just like, oh, God, it's so weird to like have somebody asking me that question. Or like sometimes like people will maybe somebody will recognize me, for instance, and they're like ask for a picture and I'll pose for their picture. And then somebody else will be like, they don't know who I am. They just are like, why do those people want a picture? And they'll be like very like aggressive and like, I want one too. And you're just like, oh, that's where you feel objectified when people like put their hands on you or like, I need this too.

36:06Or can you do this? Can you? And they start like, they get anything like that. I feel like kind of objectified. But you also get, you know, I don't know. I know it's really like taboo to say, but sometimes you're just like, I just want to be objectified for a minute. Wouldn't that be nice? Yeah. and how refreshing to say that yeah right like of course we want to be attracted to other people I want to be sexualized and objectified sometimes yeah you know but I think that's and I do actually funnily like I think I'm also so used to having like a theater full of like women that are there maybe because they read my book or whatever or they follow me and then sometimes when there's especially this happens in Vegas when there's like you know people that are not usually they they don't know me they don't know what my show is about they are just walking into it and they're just like yeah this is hot and i'm like oh good i'm glad that it's still like sexy and hot too and it's not you know like i have to i like to create a show that feels like if you have never heard of me you're still going to be like that was so much fun i've never seen anything like that in my life so you know and but it is funny to like step away from my own stage and my own fans and to suddenly be like in a room where you're like oh this is like a bunch of guys you know like it's a weird feeling it's like a shift and it reminds me of like the 90s when I was working in strip clubs I'm trying to think of an example but I think there was like a a show I was doing in like stade and it was like a private members club and it was all I was like oh my god it's all like guys so weird how I got a shift into like ah you know and I guess even if it is a room full of men who are sort of ogling you do you feel that element of perhaps safety or like you're not being objectified because you're in control this is you controlling the atmosphere and what happens yeah I mean I I'm really I feel I always have this feeling like that stage that I have that I'm I've created is like it's my my space and it's really fun and it's like to me funny and and amusing and I don't need anything from them you know I don't need anything from the audience it's nice when you have like this great energy there's nothing like the you know sold out palladium to give you this like energy but I you learn quickly to just like keep your you know hold your own space on stage and not rely on any of the energy because you don't know when it's coming back at you in a the opposite way that you want it yes yeah and you can't I guess you can't pin your happiness to that outcome it's just no you have to experience that you yeah you have to do your show you know yeah of course I mean one of the things that you I guess is an absolute must whether you have to fake it or it is real is feeling good in your skin feeling happy and comfy in your body which I think many women don't you know we have a pretty good two-way conversation with our audience about these sort of subjects a lot and there are so many people who whether it's from just the messaging that we're constantly bombarded with the sort of comparisons that women have had to deal with over the years many of us have ended up feeling really bad about ourselves and our physical bodies what's your experience of of having your body very out there been like in your levels of confidence yeah I mean I'm it it's like we're also living in like a time when on social media everyone's getting criticized like for what they look like and um I don't know I mean I kind of like try to I have of course my things that I'm don't that I'll like maybe think I don't like.

39:34And I try to replace the thoughts with like good thoughts for my body about what it does for me, how it like moves for me and like how good I feel. Like when I work out, I don't want to work out. It's not, no, working out is not fun, but I get like, wow, I am so lucky I get to do this. There's people that would love to know what it feels like to do this. You know, how lucky I am that I get to have the time or that my body moves. What does my body do for me? So I try to like change the conversation in my head because I think like, I always just think Like we have this little like computer up there that's doing all these things and saying all these things.

40:07And it's like I try really hard to change what it says. Yeah. I mean, that is easier said than done sometimes. I mean, there is I definitely have periods probably more in my 20s where I felt so uncomfortable in my skin. And, you know, like you say, we've got social media now. But back then the press here was so awful. And they would like put a picture of you in a magazine and circle it. They still are. I just do not engage with it. But it's still happening. and I I mean I had eating disorders I was all over the shop but I used to sometimes not go out because I thought I don't want to be seen you know and I perfectly normal fine body but I just thought I don't want to be seen I don't want anyone to look at me I felt grotesque you know I really took it all on board and I think you know age certainly helps I feel I care a lot less about all that now I just want to feel healthy and have some energy but I think when you're a young person And there's so much emphasis on what you look like and the aesthetic.

41:05And so much of our culture and media still backs that up for young people, which is, you know, constantly worrying. Even as a parent, I sort of panic about it slightly. Yeah. How do you navigate that? Or how did you navigate that sort of knowing you've got all eyes on you and and sort of keeping yourself intact mentally? It's so much to get through. I feel like I'm lucky that in my 20s, it was before I was known and nobody was following me around with cameras or, you know, that kind of thing. So I feel very lucky in my 20s. When I look back on it, I was like, I was just liberated. I was just living.

41:40I was like, you know, that. But then in my 30s, when I became like more known and people started following me to try to get my get me doing looking bad or doing all the things that you're saying, saying I'm too fat, I'm too thin, I'm too this, I'm too that. Or like saying I'm old when I was like 38. I was like, wow, it's so weird. It's a weird thing to navigate. But I don't know. I mean, I think like what I love now is like I think back on like an interview where somebody might have said that, oh, you're 35. You are getting old. What are you doing to do when you're too old for this? Now I get very excited about like, let's go.

42:19Say something shitty to me right now. I fucking dare you. Sorry. You know, like, you know, it's just like become a little bit of a sport. You know, like sometimes you sit down in interviews and like, what should we, you know, what should they not ask you about? And I'm a little bit like sometimes I want to make the list of like don't ask me about these things. But then sometimes I'm like, let's do this. It'll be really fun, you know. Because like it just is, you know, you just get to the point where now I'm not afraid to like say what I think, you know. Oh my God, this is the joy of getting older.

42:49Right. You just sort of like shit. I used to sit in interviews back in the day. I remember crying once after this journalist said some really shitty things to me. It was obviously trying to just sort of make me look stupid and trip me up. And he wouldn't. It was relentless. And I cried and I think, oh, my God, now if he did that, I would just get up and walk out, turn the table over and be like, use that for your clickbait. You know, like it's just. Yeah, I was doing an interview just the other day and I was sitting on the stage with this beautiful new theater and try and talk about the show. And they're asking me these questions that are so off topic.

43:22And finally, I was like, we don't. Why are you even asking me this? Yeah. What is this to do with the show? Like, what is this to do with my world? Like, it just gets like, you know, you just have. Yeah, it's fun. Like just do it because I think there's people out there that will say like, yeah, sometimes you just have to say, why are you asking me this? Yeah. And actually by you doing that, I think it's permission for other women to go, oh, actually, I don't like when I'm asked this certain question or whatever it might be. You have the sort of impetus to go, yeah, I'm going to walk away or shut this down or whatever.

43:55And when you're younger, it's so hard to find that voice and that confidence. Yeah. It's bloody great getting older. Yeah. I think there's definitely people that I like to watch that are younger that you're watching them go and like crack the whip on people asking them things they shouldn't. I enjoy that. I enjoy it very much when I see that. I think this new generation are way better than we were doing this stuff. And I'm really, I'm here for it. Yeah, because I was just always, and I always had this feeling like I should just be lucky I'm here. Like I'm the only stripper that gets to be at this front row in the fashion show.

44:29I'm the only one stripper gets, you know, I always had this kind of like, oh, I'm really lucky to be here because I'm not an actress or a pop star. And yet they're interviewing me. So I felt like I had to be. And now I'm just like, fuck that. Fuck that.

44:46The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapers. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about.

45:26because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Summer's heating up and so is the action with Chumba Casino and 2311 Racing. Whether you're trackside with Bubba, Riley, and Tyler or cooling off at home, the fun never stops at Chumba Casino, the online social casino packed with free-to-play games like slots, blackjack, and more.

46:06Jump into summer at ChumbaCasino.com and score your free welcome bonus. Two million free gold coins and two free sweeps coins. No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidware prohibited by law. CT &C is 21+. Sponsored by Chumba Casino.

46:23you are responsible for one of the greatest quotes of all time which i use regularly you can be the ripest juiciest peach in the world and there's still going to be someone that hates peaches i think about it all the time all the time and it's so true we're trying to please everybody and why i think it's the question why we're trying to please everyone yeah pointless yeah I mean it's just like one of those those like funny little things that you know you do you realize it's like whatever you are it's like you could be I remember this always stays with me I remember like when Elizabeth Taylor died and I saw some like article about her and it was talking about her life and her legacy and all she did for people with AIDS and in the I look in the comments just for curiosity and there were all these comments that were like she wasn't very beautiful she was a shitty actress like all these things and I thought like okay that you have to keep this in mind for all times that when you see what people say about you or if people whatever people are saying about you you have to remember all these people said these things about somebody like Elizabeth Taylor who was like you know yes of course beauty is subjective but like you know there's some things you can't you can say and you can say you can't really be like oh she was like you can't really say she was a terrible actress no you can't really that you can't say that's absurd yeah there's a really good documentary i watched about her on a flight the other day and kim kardashian produced it and it is bloody brilliant and it kind of shows that tenacity and the punk kind of attitude she had to so many things and she was brilliant it would only be great comments from me she was the best yeah she was there was there are a lot of great ladies like that but there really were and she was something you know people I think it's so hard to not take criticism personally because we we know it's not like I'm pretty sure those people that wrote in those comments saying she wasn't a good actress or she wasn't very beautiful which she undoubtedly was um were having a shit day or are going through something really shitty and they just need to vent and it's that yeah right but you don't take it with a pinch of salt like that at the time necessarily it can feel extremely personal yeah definitely because you're sort of like again like I feel like I've read in the same comments like and I try not to go for the comments but sometimes they get you and you're not like you're not trying to you like you'll accidentally see something that someone's saying about you and you're like oh I wasn't I don't I know better really than to look you know you maybe read like something nice like i saw your show and i loved it and then right underneath it you're like oh wait wait no i didn't know what that it's a little bit like no i want to read i think it's nice when somebody says what it meant to them i'd like to read you know things if it you know because it gives me fuel to like want to do more if somebody says why it meant something to them to see my show or read my book or whatever um or something i said you know so yeah it kind of just hits you in the face and you go oh god like i saw something recently accidentally too where they were like oh she's had so many fillers and worked on i'm like i've never had any fillers i get my botox right here like anybody my age almost anybody and i i was just like do i look like oh i have a fat face it looks like it's full of fillers and i was just like oh my god like do i need to do i need to like thin my face out like i don't know i always kind of liked my like baby fat face like like perfect this is like a funny thing where i thought like oh for fuck's sake it's like really like a crazy thing to to judge people like that these would be thoughts in someone's head 20 years ago that that wouldn't appear anywhere there'd be a thought in someone's head that would then dissipate four seconds later and they'd probably never think that thought again but because they're written in black and white and you see them it feels so much more real and meaningful and it is all kind of completely meaningless they're just passing thoughts i know and it's like if you could just and i also always think like i gotta let you gotta let some shit like roll off your you know roll off like water off a duck's bag right um and but it's hard to do you know because some things like sneak in and they get in there you know like it's just you know like i'm sitting there going i need to get work done and make it look like i don't have work done yeah and you definitely don't but i hear you i know this shit and how it works it's horrible yeah it's the pits right another great quote i'm just gonna do all your best quotes oh this is what i love only mediocrity is safe from ridicule dare to be different which i love and you have lived by that you you walk in the walk like you're doing it you've always done your thing which again I admire greatly because I think it's so easy I'll even do it in my working environment and I'll think I know how I interview best or I'll know how I do business best and then I'll see someone else doing it think oh maybe I should do what they're doing right be more like them it's really hard to stay with your own authentic set of values and what you know works for you do you ever feel swayed off course or are you just so emphatically you um uh I guess like okay well I I'm just thinking in terms of like my work a lot of times with that and having made two different shows in the last two years like there's times where I I have to like sometimes step back and I'll hear people's ideas out and I might be like, I was kind of stupid.

52:02But then I'll also let it play out and see like if it works, you know, like I'll let things like be like, well, let's just see if it works. And then if it does, I'm like, keep let's keep it. It's great. Like, and I'll try to like figure out how I accept that I'm not always like, right. Or like, there's going to be things like in my show, especially like things that maybe like, like, I wouldn't do or like I don't necessarily think is that funny but then people like laugh till they cry and I'm like keep it you know like so I I feel like I have to like you know every once in a while remove myself from the equation be like I'm not you know I might not be the customer for this so yeah like things like that but like with me I guess I just yeah I always kind of want to take the road less traveled and like try to like I was trying to explain oftentimes I find myself explaining like that I don't you know like maybe in the show they're like oh we need to use like something that's like of like the moment and culture and I go and I say uh actually I kind of like when I think about like my I'm not a character but like I go oh you know here's the thing about Dita Von Teese Dita Von Teese exists in a world where she doesn't pay attention to what the hit songs are on the radio yeah because i don't and i like to think outside of it does that make sense like i get like oh i don't want ever anyone to ever think that i'm like watching and listening to every things in mainstream culture i want to look outside of it and bring like new things to the table does that make sense like just like i yeah like somebody's like we need to do a song everybody knows and i'm like well or not or not we could try something different you know so I don't know I think it's that like I don't know in my Vegas show that I was like no no no no we don't need like a trap song in the middle of this burlesque right there is some techno in there no I get it and I also like the fact that you're authentically vehemently you but open to we don't always know what's best for us in life even you know we think we do and actually it's pretty quite a good universal lesson for us to all go I know how I like things and what I want things to look like and how I want them to play out but actually a curveball will come in and then you're like I didn't know I was gonna get anything out of this and you have to be open minded yeah amidst that knowing yourself I guess yeah definitely Dita where would you say your happy places?

54:33I think I have a, you know, my happy place changes a lot depending on what I'm doing in life. Like right now I'm doing two shows simultaneously and traveling between Vegas and LA where I live and being here. And I'd say like a lot of times my happy place, I would say it's on the stage, but it's not always it's on the stage when it's like, everything is magic and perfect. And you're like, everything falls into place. There's no mistake. It's like when it's, when it feels perfect and the energy is right it's like whoa that's that is something that i know one day i'm going to be like god if i could just have that feeling one more time and then my other happy place is just like at home in my you know bed was surrounded by my animals you know just like this is where i want to be right now so it's very much like that those two things especially right now because i am doing so many shows and i don't have any like well i could make social time but the reality is that I just want to like I want to rest I want to like just zone out and I want to like when I'm home I just want really want to be home like I keep turning down red carpet things and all this stuff because I'm like oh god is it bad I just want to stay home with my like great stay home and make my own food wash my own dishes and like lay in bed with my cats literally nothing better especially cats yeah you're talking my language really yeah yeah yeah I prefer them to humans crazy cat person me how many have you got i love i love dogs too i've always had dogs sometimes people get like dog people cat people i'm like what is that yeah like i would have all kinds of animals if i had more time what have you got how many cats are we talking i have three at the moment yeah three cats right now i don't have any dogs right now i had dogs for 18 years two little sausage dogs and i just don't have the time for that yeah but i will one day yeah cats are great because they just do their thing cats are totally like easy and fun and they don't care know if you've been away they're just like oh you're back cool yeah where's my food yeah um yeah laying in bed with cats that is probably one of my happy places too okay good i was like oh i'm gonna come to this like really important podcast and i'm gonna say like let's just like cats you know because it's like the purring like i love to lay there like you know one here one here maybe one here or one like between my knees and it's just like the purring will put me like right to sleep i think it's just like a meditation yeah it's like a cellular thing like purring does something i saw like a um like a sound bath with cats you know there's like goat yoga and all that kind of stuff and i was like sound bath with cats like yeah i want to do that yeah i've got this long-haired black cat called frank and i've got simon frank he you can pick him up like a baby and every morning before i've even like opened both my eyes i pick up frank and i rock him like a baby and he purrs and i'm like i just want to do this all day it's like my the best bit of my day oh i mean we i have like the cat sling oh the cat stroller yeah a stroller yeah i have well i don't listen like my partner got the cat stroller and takes it because we have we have one cat that has cancer and so we're like make-a-wish foundation for cats right now and she loves to go outside in the cat stroller so like that's like what why i spend most of my time doing when i'm home is like whatever she wants let's go outside and lay on the sun for a little while let's go in the stroller because it like perks her up and gets her excited um so yeah i like i know it's so i can't believe now we're talking about like stroll cat strollers but no but you know i never i didn't have kids you know i love i have my animals and cats just like they're the best invention quite frankly right no One time I had one cat that I had that that had FIP, which is like a deadly cat virus.

58:19Right. And we you can you can say you can there's a cure now for this disease. But it's very at the time five years ago, it was very difficult to get the medication and like a long process and expensive. And it was probably like a twenty two thousand dollar cat at that point. And I remember like sitting there petting it. And suddenly I was like looking at the details. I'm like, you know what? in an alternate universe this is how much they cost is like 22 000 because this is like incredibly designed it purrs it's like plush and it's beautiful it's like a oh i have this can you imagine i have this tiny little little panther you know like oh yeah anybody can get a full-size panther whatever but i've got a little one that i can pick up that can't kill me so like yeah i just started thinking like in the alternate universe it's like that a cat would be like this precious thing that you have and it would be worth every and it is worth every penny without a doubt that alternative universe is my house like that is what i'm living and experiencing day yeah and that's how it should be that's how it should be amen um a perfect note to finish on cats thank you so much good luck thank you very much one of your show and hopefully see you soon thank you oh my god dita i so love that i have one of those moments during that chat where i was like I'm just having a chat with Dita Von Teese.

59:37How cool. I felt really, really privileged and just really grateful that we got to hang out for that hour. And obviously the fact that we ended the talk on cats has just left me feeling particularly perky. Diamonds and Dust is at the Emerald Theatre in London now. Oh, and a little heads up that this week you're going to want to keep a particularly BDI on your podcast feed because there's going to be some extra summery fun happening. That's all I'm saying. You'll definitely want to be here for that. spicy margain hand if you have it. Right, be back here soon, but in the meantime a massive thanks to Dieter, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you, keep sparkling you gorgeous, sparkly babes.

1:00:33Thank you.

1:01:03And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Summer's heating up and so is the action with Chumba Casino and 2311 Racing. Whether you're trackside with Bubba, Riley, and Tyler or cooling off at home, the fun never stops at Chumba Casino, The online social casino packed with free-to-play games like slots, blackjack, and more. Jump into summer at chumbacasino.com and score your free welcome bonus. Two million free gold coins and two free sweeps coins.

1:01:41No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidware prohibited by law. CTNC's 21 Plus sponsored by Chumba Casino.