Ellie Goldstein: Confidence, being underestimated, and Gucci hairbands

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that constantly redefines what's possible. Today, I'm chatting to Ellie Goldstein and her mum, Yvonne. The drama with the teacher was like, how can she do modelling? How can she be an advert? It was like so negative. They got her character and personality mixed up with the conditions. So Ellie is cheeky. She can be crafty, cheeky, you name it. So that would just be like she'd be punished because of the wrong things. but they didn't know how to handle her. Yeah, at the end of the shoot, we're in the cab to go home and I call from my agent and she says to mum that I'm going to go to a folk.

0:46I'm telling me that I'm going to go to a folk. Like, what? When Ellie was born with Down syndrome, doctors gave her parents little hope about the life she's led. But for 21 years and counting, Ellie has been defying the odds and overcoming every hardship thrown her way. She's absolutely soaring. She's a supermodel who's graced the covers of Vogue and Glamour and has done amazing campaigns for Gucci, Nike, Adidas and a load of others too. She's also, and this is so cool, she's also become the UK ambassador for a Barbie doll based on a person with Down syndrome. Now she's written a book with mum, Yvonne, who of course we had to get involved in this chat, that tells the story of her, quite frankly, stratospheric rise to stardom.

1:33I love chatting to Ellie and Yvonne. We covered a hell of a lot. I really appreciated Yvonne being so honest about the loneliness we can sometimes feel as parents. And Ellie has the most infectious energy and just a beautiful zest for life that I think we could all do with mirroring. The market's uncertain. revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using upwork to keep work moving go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast no bulky overhead no rigid long-term contracts just the right expert right when you need them work smarter and faster with upwork go to upwork.com now and find your freelance expert that's upwork.com Post a job for free and get started today.

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3:58We'll get to Ellie in just a moment. But first, I am so excited to tell you that the Happy Place Festival is back in 2024. Oh my God, I can't wait. We'll be back at Chiswick House and Gardens on Saturday the 13th and Sunday the 14th of July. and in Tatton Park on Saturday the 31st of August and Sunday the 1st of September. Early bird tickets at 2023 prices go on sale for one week only on Friday the 13th of October at 9am. Ticket links and more information can be found at happyplaceofficial.co.uk forward slash festival and I really cannot wait to see you all there next summer. All right, let's do it.

4:44Here's the show.

5:08Ellie and Mum Yvonne, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so looking forward to talking to you today. And also, I want to start by saying thank you, because Ellie, I know you're extremely busy at college at the moment, aren't you? You're doing your Level 3 Extended Performing Arts Certificate, am I right? Yes, right, yeah. And how's that going? Pretty good. Because what you got in your last exam results was incredible, right? Tell us what you got. 80%. That is incredible. I'm working maths. Oh. Oh, you're not a fan of maths, are you? No. No, my. Performing arts is your thing. So why do you love performing arts?

5:49What is it about performing arts that makes you feel so good? Because I can dance. I can relax and calm. Oh, it's so brilliant. Well, I wish you all the luck with your studies because I know you've got so much going on, hence why we're doing this recording bright and early because you're off to college later on today, right? Yeah, one o 'clock. One o 'clock. Okay, you've got a busy day ahead, so I don't want to hold you up too much. but we've got so much to talk about today because as well as your college work and your modelling, which we're going to get to in a moment, you've also written this brilliant book.

6:23We haven't seen it. Are you joking? You've not seen it? How come? Why have I got one and you haven't? We're waiting. We're waiting. Any day, any day. It's coming tomorrow with the book, so. I feel bad that I've got one and you don't have one. Oh, my God. Look at it, Ellie, look. Oh, my God. It is so lovely. I love that picture on the front cover. You've got the most wonderfully happy smile, beautiful dress, a necklace that I'm desperate for. Oh, cute. It's gorgeous. It's called Against All Odds. It's on Katie Piper's imprint, The Unseen. How was it writing a book all about your life? Really amazing.

7:06Because it's inspired people with disabilities. abilities and they can look at what I've achieved and what I can learn from it. Yeah it's it's such a brilliant story and you've got lots of other people in there you've got your sister in there you've got your dance teacher in there you've got your mum in there Yvonne yes mum how was it for you Yvonne to look back on not only the the joyful times that you've experienced in Ellie's life but but also the more challenging times. It was really emotional, actually, writing and just bringing all the, the memories are always there, but when you bring them back to the surface, it was quite painful.

7:46But I wanted to obviously do it to share, you know, the story to inspire other people. Yeah. Yeah, it was, and even when I started to read the manuscript backwards and forwards, every time I read that bit, I was like crying. Crying. and even in other interviews, every time they ask about it, I'm like, it's a long time, but it's still quite raw. Yeah, of course, because that's the funny thing about life, isn't it? Unless you've got a project like this, where you are writing and reflecting and looking back, it's not often that you go there in that detail. You might retell parts of stories, but to really look back at Ellie's whole life and your experience as a mum, you don't really get to do that unless you're writing a memoir.

8:31Exactly, that's true. Yeah, just brought everything back. So it was, you know, I'm pleased we did it. It was amazing to do. We're just a bit, some difficult times doing it in the process. No, I'm sure. And as I said, it's on Katie Piper's imprint, The Unseen. I love Katie Piper. She's so wonderful. You've met her lots of times, right, Ellie? One time, yeah. Two times. And you guys get on really well. yes we do she's an amazing lady she's written a beautiful introduction to your book as well which is so lovely so it's a it's a great collaboration it's so wonderful what I love is literally your first sentence in the book Ellie you say the first thing you need to know about me is that I'm happy I think that is such a good start to a book I was like right I'm in I love this.

9:24And also, I think that's quite rare. I don't think many people can say I'm happy, which is a really sad thought. But I think it's true. And I've interviewed lots of people. And I don't think many people can say I am happy. Why do you think you're happy? What makes you happy, Ellie? Different things. Give us a list. What are your favourite things that make you feel great? dancing feeling happy obviously um going at places being positive yeah being positive is a real big one it's a real big one i think a lot of the time we get into a bad habit of feeling a bit negative but you're really good at looking at the bright side and being positive aren't you yeah yeah no it's really really important what makes you feel unhappy uh spices same I hate them.

10:19There was my night. I went to my room. I've been going on my door. No, I'm not going to do that. But there was this. I can't stand them either. This is the time of year where they all come out. Yeah, very true. Yeah. I've had a few. And Daddy Longlegs. Yeah. I don't like them either. I really don't. I'm not happy. Nah. You're always happy. It's a lovely thing. And you also say in the book that something that makes you really happy is living life to the max. There'll be a lot of people out there listening to this that perhaps don't feel their living life to the max, that feel nervous to reach for their dreams or to even have dreams.

11:01What would you say to people who are a bit nervous to really go for what they want in life? Never give up. I'm not with any dreams. I hope it goes good. Yeah, exactly. It's getting to thinking positive, isn't it? Yeah. You've really got to think positive. There was a story in the book where you were younger and you were going horse riding and you'd gone to a new horse riding school. And the teachers there got you doing really basic stuff, even though you were much more capable than they were assuming. That is sadly a theme that you, Ellie and Mama Vaughn, have had to deal with at school, in different out of school clubs, people underestimating what you're capable of, Ellie.

11:42How have you both navigated that? Oh, God. I think Ellie just shines wherever she goes. Yeah. Once people meet her, then they realise that she's capable and she's bright and bubbly and very confident. Yeah, for me, I just think people are still quite ignorant, unfortunately, and still got a lot to learn about the condition and still even sometimes if we go shopping there, look at me and ask me questions. How old is she? what's her name and I'm like ask her you know yeah I get a bit angry they should you know direct the question at Ellie first and if she can't answer then I would but I just you know people do unfortunately underestimate her it's been like that through her life but she's overcome so many challenges at school she's doing so well yeah college she passes all her exams she's got distinctions for performing arts merits distinguishing you know she's just smashing life really yeah it's so brilliant knows it yeah i love it i love it i love it well it's all evident in the book as well you know everything you're talking about with college and your performing arts you're absolutely as your mum said you're absolutely smashing it it's a beautiful thing yeah right yeah yeah that's right too right and also yvonne when you first you know you go you you go right back and I'm sure this is the bit that you were alluding to earlier that was painful to look back on when Ellie was first born you were told by hospital staff that Ellie wouldn't talk wouldn't walk wouldn't go to university that is a really difficult thing to digest as a mother and I'm sure that was very painful to look back on how did you get through that period yeah it was the just unbelievable considering she'd just been born and you know no one knows their kids gonna go to university when they're born it was a stupid comment and statement quite honestly so once my husband and I got our head around the whole situation and it took me a good five six days to actually even probably try and bond with Ellie because of how it was dealt with and they were asking if I wanted to leave her there because another mother did I didn't sort of know if I was coming or going but eventually down the line you know she had a major heart surgery at five months old we had to get through that so once everything was sort of okay we just said you know we'll just take one day at a time and not plan too far ahead because we didn't know her outcome obviously and then gradually we could see you know what type of character she was and determined little thing even from really early two three years old she you could see she was bright and we are going to prove these doctors very wrong yeah and um yeah we just sort of took one day at a time and then we decided you know we'll bring Ellie up like we did Amy and put Ellie first, not her condition and just invested what we could in her.

15:03Ellie sort of just knew her own direction. And here you are. We supported her. She always sort of tiny, knew what she wanted. Even when she used to do Makaton, we could work out. She was very demanding. No demanding. Oh, still is. Yeah, here we are. and you talk about makaton in the book so this is a form of sign language that ellie used when when well when you were tiny ellie this is what you used to use right yeah yeah yeah yeah and as you sort of get to talk the makaton drops off so ellie just used it mainly for like saying more cake more food yeah it's always more more more something so that was her good communication okay okay but it's a handy phrase to know isn't it we all need that phrase i do so i mean it still seems sadly yvonne but i mean that was a while ago for you but parents are still going through the same now and feeling particularly lonely and not quite sure where to turn when they are given you know awful statements like that that you've proven to be absolutely not true what can parents do if they're listening to this feeling you know in a similar boat feeling like they're not sure who to ask for advice or where to turn or well I guess also how to tap into that confidence to actually be guided by the kid yeah I think you know watch and listen to your child first I know the early days obviously they don't walk and they're babies and don't talk but just like we did just take one day at a time literally I mean we still sometimes just don't look too far ahead but never you know that attitude sort of stays with you but there's organizations out there I mean we didn't really have any advice at the time but there are good organizations that are willing to listen and help and I think occasionally there would be parent groups so you could communicate um and i'm always you know we i'd always help and listen and advise i'm happy to do that um it is really a difficult time it's a really difficult time especially when you don't know um your child's got downs and then you're thrown all that after the birth so but you can prepare a little bit better if you do know um but it's still you know it's it's hard time yeah Yeah, it seems like it's still, there just needs to be more care and attention.

17:38I mean, I was sort of horrified that you were given a leaflet and that was it. You know, that's not helpful at all. Because, you know, in our heads, we had a vision of someone with Down syndrome. We were ignorant, you know, at the time. We didn't know too much about it. And, yeah, you learn as you go along, really. every little thing that your child will achieve is even better and bigger because of their conditions it's a great journey it's what you make of it as well yeah without a doubt I mean you're actually going to depth Ellie yourself about what Down syndrome is in the book what do you think people misunderstand about Down syndrome yeah like what can I achieve things yeah you You definitely showcase that in the book again, sort of telling everyone whatever you want to do, you can do it.

18:30Yeah. Have a big dream and go for it. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to get onto your big dreams in a moment because we've got lots to talk about in terms of that. It seems like you're really enjoying college now, right? Yeah. Loving college now, really enjoyed school at various points of your life. But there was, as you call it in the book, the worst year of your life where you went to your last secondary school. which you really, really did not get on with whatsoever. And the lowest point being you having a panic attack in class. What did that feel like, Ellie? I mean, no, it never happened. So I've been in school.

19:07I think we were in the playground or the classroom ever. And I remember once, my friend always said, come for me, but she left anyway, so bye-bye. So then I was in the playground and I was thinking like, when I was just here, can I do it or not? I did. And then I screamed, but I did that to myself. Screaming me, pulling my hair like that. I'm like, can I get that? I was wepting, I was gagging, I was choking on Oliver. And I know what happened. And then my picture came over to me like, Ellie, you know what? I'm like, yeah, yeah, fine. And yeah, that was sick. Yeah, you just weren't, You were feeling stressed out.

19:53It's horrible. Kind of, yeah. But then at the end, I was like, I need a chocolate bar in my home. It solves all problems. If in doubt, get a bit of chocolate. That's what I say. I love it. It's a good remedy for all stress. Just eat chocolate and get back to feeling good again. But it's horrible. It's horrible. I mean, I'm imagining that it was because you didn't feel very supported. And again, you know, you weren't, people weren't shining a light on what you could do. No, they were really negative. Ellie had her first job then, her first modelling job. And the drama with the teacher was like, how can she do modelling?

20:33How can she be an advert? It was like so negative. And you don't expect that of a special needs school. No. It was like completely the opposite. it but everything that you know again ellie they got her character and personality mixed up with the condition so ellie is cheeky she can be yeah you know crafty cheeky you know so that would just be like she'd be punished because of the wrong things but they didn't know how to probably handle. Yeah, but one of the things is these books were actually mine so this boy had the books. They were called Hotel Tresor Fainer. Oh, I know them. Do you? Yeah, I know those books.

21:21Yeah, so I like the favourite books. And this teacher called Annie, but I love her so much. Not at this point. She closed the door to me. Oh, damn, but they were my books. She didn't do that. she got accused of stealing her own book. Oh, boy. Yeah, very bizarre. Yeah, it was a lot of battles that I could have done without. Oh, I'm sure. You don't need more stress in that situation whatsoever. No, they were wrong in the end. I gave any thoughts to this boy, claimed they were here. They were mine. There was always a situation to deal with, which was so unnecessary. Yeah. Well, you just need full support and full understanding when you're going through something like that.

22:09Well, both of you do. And I'm glad that all came good in the end and you're now really happy at college because you absolutely deserve to be just loving it and thriving, which you seem to really be doing.

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23:25so let's get on to the modeling because we haven't even touched on this yet we now know you as a highly in demand model for so many massive brands and fashion labels talk to us about how did you get into this i mean i obviously know the story from the book but i'd love you to tell anyone on this podcast who hasn't read the book doesn't know your story How you got into modelling, Ellie? So my mum's friend saw my agent on the TV and then she told mum to phone them and then they found, no, I thought I'd shoot first and then they'd sign me up. Yeah, they were starting an inclusive model agency and I met Ellie, signed up immediately.

24:11And yeah, that's history now. Yeah. I know, so that first shoot went really well and then led to your... Your first job was with Superdrug. I mean, that's huge. Yeah, it was a better thing that I love. Yeah, Christmas ad. Christmas ad. So I had dinner there for me. Like, I love that. The food's important. No. My food is important. Both are equally important. I mean, the food on shoots is usually pretty good, so it's a real plus. So tell me about that day, your first proper modelling job when you turn up to a studio what was it like? Really amazing I wore so many looks one of them was like a pink glittery coat and this really cool white coloured leggings maybe, loved it all Did you feel instantly comfortable in front of the camera because the trick with modelling is, well you know better than anyone it's to make yourself look comfortable and look like you're having a great time in front of the camera and it's not always easy some people feel really nervous they clam up they feel really tense they can't relax and sort of smile naturally how did you feel the first time in front of a camera i was kind of like excited yeah it comes across though yeah i remember that i played the bang bang song by this artist and I've got to go home school again.

25:38But on a box, I'm happy I'm dancing. Yeah, so if you're dancing, you're happy. On a big toe box, like this big. Oh, that's so brilliant. And it's led to so many amazing jobs for you. I mean, it seems over the years, high street brands have started to diversify a lot more with their campaigns, but the luxury fashion industry has been really slow to catch up. But you, Ellie, were part of a game-changing Gucci campaign. And that picture was just everywhere with, you know, so many likes on Instagram and everybody talking about that shoot. What did that feel like to be part of that Gucci campaign? Let's say really excited and proud.

26:26And what was that shoot like? Because that must have been incredibly nerve-wracking for a huge brand like that. I think it was more like fun because I like my hair and the make-up and I loved it all but the one dress that I did like was a beaded one Oh, so gorgeous and your sister Amy was particularly happy about the Gucci shoot, right? Yes, she was Yeah, especially afterwards Ellie got to go to the Gucci shop in Bond Street and pick whatever she wanted Whatever I wanted So her sister came with and got a nice discount on some stuff. Yeah. What did you get? Tell me what you got there. Well, I don't remember.

27:09I still kept a big clip. There's Gucci on it. It'll be glasses. The white dress. Shoes. A bag. Everything. Lofus? Yeah. Wow. I can't remember. It's because you've got so much stuff. I've come out with loads of bags. It was so cool. Loads of bags. it's so brilliant it's so brilliant I mean it's it's incredible that you're part of that campaign it just seems like more brands need to follow suit more brands need to show a diverse range of models so everybody feels seen and included in fashion because it's still I think that high-end fashion it still feels really exclusive and like not everybody's invited along do you know what I mean yeah i think they just feel a bit nervous maybe i don't know the reason but i mean you know it's changing slowly which is it's in the right direction the market's uncertain revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using upwork to keep work moving go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast no bulky overhead no rigid long-term contracts.

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29:05Yeah, it certainly is. I mean, you've also done campaigns for Glamour magazine. You've worked with Adidas. You were part of the Barbie campaign. Tell us about the Barbie campaign. Oh, yeah. So, we did the Barbie suit. and I love it so much. It's like the person from Mattel, from Barbie, gave me the Barbie doll and like who is it? Is it me or a pretend doll? And he was silent, which I've never seen. He was silent! I'm like, wow. Oh, it's so brilliant though. And again, it feels like that should have happened a long time ago, having a Down syndrome Barbie. A very long time ago. But it was a beautiful campaign.

29:46And also the cover of Vogue. Oh, thank God. We did the suit for Vogue and I loved it. But at the end of the suit, the lady said that this would be the cover of Vogue. I'm like, OK, we're in the cab to go home. I'm going to call for my agent's suit and she said to mum that I'm the cover of Vogue. I'm telling me that I'm the cover of Vogue. I'm like, what? That's quite a secret until, like, literally the day before they don't tell you. So it was very... We got home and so many of my age was crying and screaming and I called it. Oh, my God. Everyone was crying. And I saw on your Instagram account, Ellie, the moment where you saw the Vogue cover for the first time.

30:33That was emotional. Yes, at college. Lydia and Ellie, my daughter, and John was thinking to film her reaction. I was crying. Like, I was... They thought I was nervous. I was screaming. I was crying. oh it was such a lovely moment though yeah have you got it framed somewhere in the house not yet no but we will we've got a lot of copies i bet you have oh you've got to frame it you've got to frame it i know how to get around to that yeah it's amazing it's so brilliant and so dancing are you planning to bring dancing into your career i know obviously it's part of the modeling because sometimes you're asked to dance but would you like to pursue dancing full-time yeah I would do that yeah so brilliant your dancing was you started dancing when you were what five years old yeah five years old and Yvonne how important do you think it is for parents to really ensure that their children are included in all activities because I know that when you spoke to Ellie's first dance teacher you really wanted her to be included in a dance school that was local to you that Ellie could take part in that that seems like a really important thing yeah the dance school Ellie's with now um you know we've got a really good relationship with um her dance teacher and yeah she's always been really supportive Ellie's been there about five years previous to that because Ellie always again showed signs of dance and she was really good as a little toddler and we had a few previous dance schools and they wanted someone to be with her all the time they wouldn't allow me to leave her on her own I don't know why and then in shows they'd always stick her at the back and she picked up the dances quicker than anyone which she knew the routines but yeah when we changed dance school you know everything changed and yeah yeah yeah dance teacher now can see how great she is i love my daughter she's up there in the front and yeah it's a very different attitude but parents you know if you want your child to do an activity you just take them along and you know they need to be included they might be a bit slower picking stuff up especially if it's dance but who cares you know they're part they need to feel part of something and feel equal.

33:02Yeah, and also, I don't think how quickly you pick up any hobby is relevant at all, is it? It's, you know, are you enjoying it? What are you getting from it? I think those things get a bit lost along the way with kids' hobbies. It's like, why are we trying to be competitive about this? Let's look at how much they're enjoying it, how much everybody feels like they're part of a team. That's the most important thing. That's what you love, aren't you? Being part of a dog. Yeah, I do. The girls will get on so well. I do dance shows and I swear with the panto dance because they put in the theatre school with the dance school and then both loaded a panto dance like this school and dance.

33:45That's so good. So you've got to go off to college today. How long have you got left on your studies? How many years left? One more. It's my final year at college show. Final year. My goodness. How do you feel about that? Uh, excited and proud. Yeah, you should feel super proud. It's so brilliant. So going back to you talking earlier about how important it is to live life to the max, what are your big dreams now? Because you've ticked so much off the list already. What else is there to do? America, New York. Oh, yes, I like it. We're going global, Ellie. Maybe folk, France. Yeah, that's the real chic one, right?

34:26Yeah. She's achieved a, there was another dream wasn't there, London Fashion Week, which she's doing two shows this weekend. That's another one ticked off. Oh yes, because you know what I'm doing represent and you all have to do individual catwalks in the room with people inside the room. And then in the end I came out and said, not all got paid for that catwalk. I'm like, what, what, what? we all got paid for the catwalk and I'm like oh my god wow and then we talked about that in the circle and oh my god so you're going to do that this weekend? and Sunday both days and two parties two parties one day and Thursday you're so busy so when you're doing the catwalk how do you feel about that again because you've got so many people sat there watching that catwalk Do you feel any nerves?

35:25No. No. She's ready for it. She's ready for it. You got your strut ready? Yeah.

35:34Oh, it's so brilliant. Ellie, I'm absolutely buzzed for you. You've got so many beautiful things on the horizon as well as achieving so much already. And this book, which, again, I'm so sorry that I've got it before you. No, it's fine, it's fine. I can post this one to you if you want. No, we're getting started. Oh, we're getting started. I'm waiting for a big call. Oh, it's so wonderful. And I'm so thrilled that you feel proud and excited. You jolly well should. It's going to be so inspiring for so many people. And also your amazing inserts, Yvonne, as well. So helpful to other parents out there who feel lonely and lost at the moment.

36:10It's a really beautiful thing. So thank you so much for talking to me today, Ellie and Yvonne. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. we had that chat a couple of weeks ago so london fashion week will have happened by now so i hope that all went amazingly ellie i've no doubt that you brought so much confidence to that catwalk absolutely incredible thank you both ellie and yvonne for fitting me into your extremely busy schedule i was so energized by that chat also i still feel quite bad that i got my hands on one of Ellie's books before she did. But I have to say her face was such a picture when she saw me holding it.

36:49It was really worth it for that moment. Just the most excited you could ever imagine someone to be. We're going to pop that gorgeous moment on Instagram at happyplaceofficial so you can see it too. Beautiful stuff. Ellie's book Against All Odds with that lovely foreword by Katie Piper is out now. All right, back next week. Until then, it's a massive thanks again to Ellie and Yvonne to the producer Anushka Tate at Rethink Audio, who's an absolute legend. She's just had a knee operation and she is powering through, working through the pain and the stress of it. Anushka, you're amazing. You beautiful lot.

37:25We'll chat soon.

37:41Thank you.

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