Fats Timbo

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and this is the show that looks inwards to find confidence and contentment. Today, I'm meeting Fats Timbo. The more you fake it, the more you start to believe it and the more you actually feel good about yourself. Because it's not easy. It's not easy at all. Like, from self-loathing to self-loving, it's a journey. It's not going to happen in one night, it's not going to happen in a week, it's not going to happen in a year. It takes a long time, but it takes work as well. And I knew inside as well that it's going to take some time. Fats is a comedian, model and social media megastar.

0:43Born with achondroplasia, she's known online for her comedic sketches and disability advocacy. Now she's written a very powerful memoir about facing adversity, but learning how to become fearless as a result. It's called Main Character Energy and it's both incredibly funny and incredibly thought provoking at the same time. I absolutely adored having this chat with Fatima. Her positive outlook on life is honestly infectious. Her ability to find positives, to laugh where others might cry, seems to come from her brilliant parents. Honestly, I bet you, like me, will want to meet her dad after listening to this episode.

1:28We also talked about there being real merit in faking it until you make it when it comes to confidence and positive self-talk in particular. Listen to this chat and let me know afterwards what you reckon. I want to tell you the exciting news that our Happy Place app is now available on Android. Hurrah! You've all been asking and waiting so patiently. Thank you for that. I am so pleased that it's finally here. Sharing the knowledge that I've learned through the Happy Place podcast has always been extremely important to me. And now with our Android app, everyone can access the practices I've discovered and that have helped me feel that bit happier and calmer in my every day.

2:10Plus, we've just launched new features in the app designed to make it even easier to find the practices you love and discover tools to help you prioritise your well-being. So whether you need a moment of calm before a meeting, a de-stress on your commute or recovery after a long day, the app offers practices to help you through your day. And don't forget with our one month free trial, you can dive right in and really explore what we have to offer without any commitment. So if you're ready to make the Happy Place app your wellness companion, head over to the Happy Place website to start your free trial now.

2:51Okay, here it is. This is the show.

3:15Fatima, welcome to Happy Place. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to have you here for many reasons. One is that your Instagram has brought me so much joy. The comedy videos are just, if I need a boost, if I'm feeling a bit flat, I'm going to your Instagram. Thank you, that means so much to me. They're so funny. And we should probably start talking about humour because reading your book as well, which I've got here, Main Character Energy, humour seems to be a really important theme throughout your whole life and also your upbringing with how your parents or your whole family really deal with life and deal with the unexpected and situations that come up.

3:59Would you say that's true? That is definitely true. Obviously, it starts from my family. My family are absolutely hilarious. My dad, my mum, the way we go about life, we don't take things too, too seriously. And I think that's what I've instilled in my life that don't take life too seriously because you know we're all gonna be dead one day yeah i mean let's just cut to the chase we're all gonna die yeah we're all gonna die so why why i take things so so seriously so in terms of like there was one story that i mentioned in my book tannerife don't i had a panic attack reading that i was like how are you guys reacting Please tell this story.

4:43So when we went to Tenerife, it was very eventful. We had so much fun. It was great. When it was time to go home, we went to the airport and we lined up as you do, you know, get your boarding parties. They said to us, your flight was yesterday. I don't. Sorry. And you guys just all laughed. We all just, no, at first it was shocking, yes. But it was just, if you don't laugh, you'll cry. But I would go straight to cry. I would forget the laugh bit, Fatima. This is the problem. I would be so, that's my worst nightmare. I would be so panicked, I'd feel out of control. And you guys were all like on a roll of laughter where one stopped and then someone else would laugh.

5:28It was such a funny day because my dad's panicking. Like, it's just the way my dad's reacting and laughing. It's like, what's this? How did we, oh my, who did this? and then finding someone to blame. Me and my brother just laughing. We were like, what the hell? Well, we ended up back in London. There was a flight on that same day, so it was fine. It was super expensive, yes, but we made it. So it's important. But I think having that in the back of your mind when you can to not take life seriously is an amazing coping mechanism in the everyday stuff, but also in the more poignant or challenging moments of life to go, just don't take yourself so seriously.

6:08And I think reading your book, that really hit home. If I can feel myself getting a bit serious and judging myself a bit or overly worrying, humour is such a great perspective shifter, really, isn't it? Because it's not going to actually change the situation, but it switches your perception of something. It definitely does. I think, for me, humour is so important to have that because it brightens up your day. When you're feeling low and feeling down or, you know, you're overthinking, when you laugh you forget you know you you feel good about yourself or you feel good about a certain situation and I think it's so important to just have that in your life instead of always being so serious so you've obviously as a family always made each other laugh a lot yeah when did you feel confident enough to go I want to do that for a wider audience because it's one thing to have a family that all get each other and go you're hilarious but I think it's a really scary place to put yourself out there and to either create a funny video tell a joke and hope for a positive like response of laughter which you get and you've got a huge following now but that's that's quite a shift from family to lots of people that's definitely true I think for me it was being in lockdown right even before lockdown when I started social media you know I was dancing I was doing modelling I was doing all sorts but I didn't show my personality and my personality is the fact that I make people laugh when I'm around them so why don't I do that online and I kept having this bugging thought like I want to make people laugh online I want to do it I want to do it and the lockdown happened and then there was TikTok I heard on the radio there's this new app called TikTok that people are obsessed with and people are doing challenges people are doing this and that and I thought okay hey, I might, when I go home, I'm going to download that and maybe do a video.

8:05That video, I had so much fun with that video. And then I kept making more, kept making more and more. And it wasn't to get attention or it wasn't to, I think it was to build my skills on TikTok because it was my first time using it. I needed to know the app a bit more. And because I had a following on Instagram, I could use those videos to make people laugh on my Instagram. then it went viral right one of my videos went viral which is the first one where you noticed oh my god a lot of people are watching this my 2020 my voiceover for tyra banks you know the oh yes um we were ruining for you so that was 2020 and um i was making fun out of the years 2019 and 2018 were looking at 2020 like we were rooting for you kind of thing so I think because everyone related to that video that's why it did so well and that's why it went viral so I noticed then if you relate to people and make people laugh that's the best way that's the way you needed to laugh in 2020 we really did we really did we really did and I mean let's talk about your brilliant book main character energy let's let's go back to basics how would you describe main character energy what is it main character energy is being the center of your life because you are you just simply are because you're born alone you die alone you are in your thoughts and you're the only one that knows how you're feeling you can often feel like a side character or somebody that isn't important but if you always remember that you're the main character in your life then you can feel confident you can feel you can have more control of yourself you know so I think that's why it was really important for me to name it main character energy because I think people need to remember that and you've been through your own personal ups and downs with main character energy but from reading specifically about your parents it seems they were really good from the get-go from as soon as you were born to really instill that whether they had the language of main character energy in the domain it probably wasn't around back then yeah but it seems like they were really leading the way showing you yeah have a great life do what you're good at and they were really championing you from the start would you say you learned main character energy from your parents?

10:36I definitely learned it from them. My parents, they're absolutely amazing. I literally have them as my wallpaper. They have always pushed me to be the best that I can be. And no, let me not get emotional. Let me stop. And never let my condition hold me back because they knew that like I was I'm the only one in the family that have it so oh god let me get you a tissue my darling yeah I never get emotional I don't know why I'm getting emotional it's a beautiful thing that's like that's just your love pouring out that's beautiful so okay back on it back on it don't ruin your makeup girl please you got that lovely eyeliner yes I don't want to ruin it okay I'm back I'm back so my parents they've always championed me to be the best I can be so um when they saw me dancing at parties they just you know they were like okay we need to get her into dance school we need to make her be on stage we need to you know we we believe in her and everything that I've done I said to them I want to be a fashion designer I just looked at clothes and I was like oh I like clothes they bought me a sewing machine you know anything that I've wanted to do they've always encouraged me and pushed me to be the best that I could be no matter if people are looking at me no matter what I've gone through in life and they've always been a shoulder to cry on as well like thinking about when I've had like a really bad day and people have just been looking at me and it's been so overwhelming like coming home and facing um having faced those reactions from people and then coming home and then I just pour it out to them.

12:22My dad would be so strong and just be rubbing my back and just be like, it's OK, you're beautiful, you're beautiful. But I'm sure now I see him as an emotional guy because I feel like we're older now and it wouldn't affect us if he's crying. But I think he really was so strong for me. I'm sure he was probably crying to himself alone. Like, you know, but my dad has always been the best dad I could ever ask and my mum but I feel like my dad I think he's just been the best father to all of my siblings like how do I explain it it's just my dad is that person that um you could always go to him because I think with studying mental health and working with people with um bipolar, anorexia, schizophrenia.

13:15He has that empathy. So he's a mental health nurse. Yeah, he's a mental health nurse. Professional full-time. Yeah. So he used to do that for 20 years. Now he works with people with learning difficulties. So he has that empathy. He was basically my at-home counsellor, someone to listen to, someone that will make me think or make me feel like, okay, my feelings are valid, but it's just a feeling right now. It's just how I feel right now. but it doesn't determine who I am as a person. So it always instilled that in me and it was really important to have that because if I didn't have that, I don't know where I'd be, honestly.

13:54I genuinely don't know. I mean, reading about them was really beautiful because they're obviously threaded throughout this book in lots of different ways and their support has just been, as you say, absolutely imperative for you to be the woman that you are today. do you think where do you think your parents got that I mean it's an amazing combination of sort of being able to apply humor to all situations real serious care and understanding and the emotional intelligence to guide you through life right and absolute strength and resilience do you think them moving from Sierra Leone was a big part of them being able to cultivate that within themselves They had to be strong.

14:38They had no choice. They had to find their feet. They had to have humour for the days that weren't so good. I do think it is from Sierra Leone. I think it's from growing up with nothing and having to make something of yourself. In Sierra Leone, when I went back, I think it was last year, I went back like twice. And some people literally have nothing. It's insane. sane and you know at the same time they're still happy you know they're still happy that they have food in front of them they're still happy that there's music that they can dance to all the the little things in life they're happy about and I think that's what's so important because you know when you're here you you're lost sometimes you feel like you you need this or you need that to be happy or you compare yourself to people but when you're over there or you grow up in that kind of environment, you're so happy or grateful for the small things, you know.

15:37And I think when they came here, they were chambermaids and they met in the hotel that they were working at. My dad, all he was looking for was food. My mum could make it for him. And then that's how they bonded, you know. And I think, yeah, just growing up in such an impoverished country just made them such a strong, resilient couple. And having to start all over again. Yeah, and having to start. And not knowing anyone. Not knowing anyone. Just having to build up from nothing, really. Yeah, and I've had to witness them be in like a studio flat, which had no rooms. It was like a sofa bed we had to be on.

16:23We had a tiny kitchen and then we had like a small bathroom. room so it was me my younger brother my older sister mom and dad all in this one tiny studio flat and my dad was saving up to move to like a really big nice house in East Ham and he managed to do it which was really good witnessing that just just going from from that to that I realized that especially from hindsight I realized that you can go to places if you work hard if you work hard for your money and be able to have vision as well because my dad always has vision he's always saying in the future we're going to do this we're going to do that he's hoping to retire in sierra leone and have a nice big well he's already built a nice big house there he wants to build another house but it's made me realize that you know you should always have dreams you should always have a goal to work towards and they always push me especially with school and are you doing your homework make sure you get your good grades because you know you'll get a good job you know you do this you know like they they always support me in everything that I do so um it's so important to just yeah have that in life just vision and yeah clarity they just had that in their in their life and you're you're very much taking heed of all that advice and you are living out your dreams now you are ticking things off the list at such a fast rate and putting putting dreams out there and making them actually happen and you're actioning all of these amazing goals.

18:01But that hasn't always been the case. And I know there was a moment where you went from understanding that you had this support and love at home with whatever you wanted to do, and then there was realising the outside world might not mirror that for you. What age do you think you were when you started to realise, oh, God, the world's not going to be as friendly as my family when I walk out the door? probably when I was about four maybe young very young because all of a sudden you know when you're at home okay I do face physical challenges because um my parents they the house wasn't adapted right and I had to use like a step to reach the light or reach the counter or something so I noticed that my siblings don't have to do that or no one else has to do that so I noticed then that I had physical challenges and then going outside and seeing that everyone's taller than me and you know people are making fun out of me because of that or in a race I'm way behind everyone else you know I already knew what place I'd come in always last so yeah it's just when people pointing it out to you that oh why are you so small why are you so tiny I don't know I'm just here I'm just I'm just here you're asking me all these questions and then secondary school was so difficult because at that age people really feel like they want to really tear you apart and a lot of the time there was these specific bullies that I'd go into class with or be in class with I should say and every single lesson have to make a comment about how I look or how short I am and you know how ugly I am and this this boy one time he drew like a pig and said that was me and that was so hurtful like I just started crying there was times at school I'll just burst out crying and just have to leave the class because of how severe the bullying would make me feel so growing up with it it was really difficult because every time every day just chipping away at my confidence you know even though I'd come home and you know it's it's I feel safe but every time I'd go out I'm just worried about what is someone going to say about my height today or why can't I just disappear sometimes that's how I'd feel why can't I be invisible why can't somebody just not mention that I'm short you know so it was very exhausting and very tiring because it was just like when is this gonna end you know but I realized that obviously this is never gonna end because I'm not gonna grow and I have to learn to accept myself yeah in a way I was confident inside in terms of my talents my abilities that I'm smart I can dance I'm talented in the sense that I can act but in terms of confidence it wasn't there at all.

21:26And that is so awful to have to day in day out it's like an internal battle because like you say you're when you're in your home you feel safe you feel protected inside you know your strengths and your talents but every time you step outside the house you're almost sort of paranoid about who's going to say something what's the reaction going to be and that inner fight to really hold on to your confidence, like you say, is not only exhausting, but it also stops you from reaching for your goals. And I'm sure that you had those moments where you thought, what even are my goals? Where am I headed?

22:03Because anyone who's been through bullying or discrimination or any kind of negative outside feedback would find it very difficult to keep your confidence in place. What do you think allowed you to start to build your confidence? Because I know there was a turning point where you started modelling, but you must have been able to hold on to a shred of it to even rebuild yourself at that point. I think it probably had to start from when I was dancing from a young age and being on stage, because knowing that I've done that in my past and that someday I want to do that full time because I know I'm good at it.

22:47I know I want to make people laugh. I want to entertain people. So I had that. I think because of that, if I didn't go dance school, I don't think I'd be doing what I'm doing today because it made me realise that I want to be doing this for the rest of my life, no matter what. So I think when it started, it was probably when I was telling my mum, You know, I'm tired of feeling low about myself. I want to do modelling. So this was before the modelling gig, before the gig. So this was like an agency. We took pictures and, you know, nothing really happened out of it, which was annoying. But before that, even to get to that point, it was just always feeling tired of feeling the same, feeling like I'm hopeless, feeling like I don't want to be here, you know, because I wanted to have that turning point.

23:47You know, I've realised that I think I saw another little woman called Mary on The Undateables. And that changed my perception because it made me realise that, okay, she's a little woman on TV. One day, I want to do that. So I've always had that dream to be on TV and speak to people and I've always had that inner feeling that I'm not tiny for no reason there's a reason behind it there's a reason why that I've gone through all this adversity so yeah when I asked my mum and then we did it and then when I saw that ad you know from Nunu it was absolutely amazing because it was like okay they're asking for people like me like me all right okay I'm here for it and I want to do it so when I applied and then I went it it was just amazing because it felt like wow I want to pursue my dreams at this time I didn't know I was going to but it was just you know I want to see where it goes you know my dad's always instilled that vision in me to always look for the bigger picture you know always look for the that end goal so I think when I did that it was just life-changing because it really built up my confidence to be able to do something like that from not doing any kind of modeling at all to doing underwear yeah that was quite uh it wasn't an entry-level modeling that was like you're in the deep end in the deep end we're modeling at the deep end was that instantly liberating to stand there in your underwear and celebrate yourself it was instant it was instantly liberating at first it was a bit like oh my god those people looking at me then it was liberating because it was like we're all in our underwear we're taking pictures we don't know where this is going to go but let's give it a go I'm half naked here you go and was that the start of you really loving and accepting yourself because I think when you've got any outside negative bullying, whatever discrimination that we've talked about, it does start to eat away at your self-worth, even if you don't want it to, even if you know deep down, I'm a good dancer, I'm really good at communicating, I'm really funny, all the stuff that you love about yourself, even though you know it, it starts to chip away at it.

26:19I think all of us on varying degrees will know that feeling when someone has said something mean to us and we go, oh God, I am, you know, this, that, all the negative stuff that's going on in our heads. did that amazing sort of catalyst of modelling enable you to go I really love myself was that the start of it do you think? It was probably the start but I was faking it if that makes sense so at the time when I did it I was faking it but I wanted to get there so it was like a journey it was the start of my journey to getting to where I am today which is so interesting because faking it is no bad thing I think sometimes we force this message you've got to have genuine, authentic self-love.

27:02And it's like, if you've never liked yourself, that is a big ask to go from self-loathing to, yay, I love myself. So faking it is a really good coping mechanism to get you anywhere near it. Because it's almost like a habit that you get into then, right? It is. It is a habit. The more you fake it, the more you start to believe it and the more you actually feel good about yourself. Because it's not easy. It's not easy at all. like from self-loathing to self-loving it's a journey it's not going to happen in one night it's not going to happen in a week it's not going to happen in a year it takes a long time but it takes work as well and I knew inside as well that it's going to take some time I also I forgot to say that I did have I did read self-help books to help me so I read The Secret I read uh we've had Ronda Byrne on the podcast.

27:57We love Ronda Byrne. It's like talking to your fairy godmother. Like I was talking to her like, she's going to solve all my problems. Honestly, it's like talking to an angel from heaven, talking to Ronda Byrne. I could have talked to her for a year. We love The Secret. Yeah, I love The Secret. I was also watching videos on how to be more confident as well. Do they help? They do help. They do. You won't instantly become confident after reading it. But it's going in. But it's going in. Yeah. So I just, I think I had the willingness to learn how to be more confident and was doing whatever it took to be that.

28:36Because if I didn't try to learn, it wasn't, it can't happen. But how interesting, because I think often the general consensus is that you're either a confident person or you're not. That it's a sort of personality type. But what you're saying and have illustrated is you can practice at being confident. You can cultivate your own confidence. And actually, you have to work hard at your confidence. It's not like you were just born confident. You work hard to attain it. I think that's really interesting. Yeah, I definitely think that is why. Yeah, that's what I did because I had to learn it. Yeah, I didn't.

29:16I was not born. That's for sure. I was not born with it. And you have to be around confident people as well. My dad is a very confident man. Very, very confident man. I so want to meet your dad. He sounds like the coolest person. He's the coolest dad ever. When he left his workplace, honestly, it was like he passed away because they did a whole video saying, oh, what are you going to miss about? Oh, God. Mr Timbo. Oh, we're going to miss your spirit. We're going to miss this. And then they had pictures. Mr Timbo. and literally when my dad showed me it's like it's like I've died in this place it's so good I was like dad because you're loved he doesn't realize it's so funny do you know what you wrote something in the book that I think is a really interesting talking point and I wonder how you feel about it today you said we all want to fit in but also stand out and I thought that was such a great observation and it's so true all of us want to feel at home and fit in and almost sort of blend in, but we equally want to feel a bit special and stand out.

30:24And I wonder how you feel about that. Do you still care about fitting in? Not as much. Not as much. Not as much as I used to. I really wanted to fit in, but I can't fit in. I can't. As much as I try. There's no way. Like, I'm forced to stand out. And how do you feel about that? Like, having no choice in the matter? Because you say, you know, there's a whole chapter on the unexpected and you say in that chapter, I've got no choice but to be unexpected. I turn up as unexpected and that can be tiring. It can be utterly exhausting having to deal with the reaction to being unexpected. So how do you feel about that today?

31:03How I feel about that today, I think now I've learned to embrace it. When I was younger, I was so tired of it. I was so exhausted from it, standing out, having people ask me questions. And, you know, even earlier at Boots, one lady was like, oh, do you know the smallest lady in the world is like this big? Why are you telling me this? Why are you saying that? Oh, God. Why? Why? Okay, that's lovely. Great. Yeah. Okay, nice. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. So now I've learned to embrace it in the sense that because I'm little, I will ask everyone or anyone that's next to me to help me get something off the shelf.

31:45That's fine. or if I've got a bright yellow outfit that I want to wear, I will happily wear it because I'm going to stand out anyway. So I've just learned to conquer that, you know, because I know it's going to happen, so you might as well embrace it. Might as well, like, some people have said, oh, sometimes you can act a little bit entitled, but I don't have the arms to reach whatever I want to reach. Yeah, I don't think that's called entitled. That's like delegating, I think. It's delegating. It's delegating. Can you help me? It is. So I literally cannot do it. So if I'm moody one day and I'm like, please get it for me, like my little brother, I get it.

32:32Okay. I think you're allowed to boss him around as well. I am. He's my little brother. Yeah, exactly. So it's fine. It's fine. With main character energy, you very clearly state that it can be challenging and it can be tiring because there has to be effort involved. You almost can't ignore your goals because you are prioritising yourself. We've got to make the clear distinction between being a selfish arsehole and actually having self-compassion and saying these are my goals and I'm going to move towards them in a really beautiful way that's conducive to helping the people around me and loving the people around me.

33:10But I'm going to prioritise myself, my self-care and going for my goals. And that is a tiring option because main character energy, yes, it's a positive, it's brilliant, it's a beautiful energy to embody. But it doesn't mean you're taking the easy route. If anything, it means you're taking the much harder route, would you say? Yeah, it's definitely the harder route. And I think people need to remember if you do the easy thing in life, it's going to make your life harder in the long run. But if you do the hard thing in life, like going for your goals, you want to do this career, but it takes a lot of work.

33:46But in the long run, when you do that career or when you get that certain thing, it's easy. Yeah. Life's so true. It's a good equation. I like it. Definitely. I think that's how I kind of simplify it in my head. And that's how I want people to channel their main character energy by striving for their goals. It's fine. It's absolutely fine. and people are scared as well to leave people behind or the people that they love, they feel like they're forgetting them or no, you've got to put yourself first because you're going to make their life easy when you go for your goals. My parents, they are so, honestly, every time they mention me or what I'm doing or, you know, because at the beginning they were sceptical, you know.

34:31They wanted you to be an accountant, right? Or they wanted you to do something more. Yeah, they wanted me to do an accountant. Yeah, I was an accountant. I did try to appease them, but I needed to appease myself. Yes. Bye-bye, Countancy. Yes. Bye. Please. Hello, Vogue. Exactly. Hello, Vogue. You know, main character energy took me to Vogue. To Vogue. Can we please talk about this Vogue shoot? Because I love that picture of you. You're wearing this beautiful lace dress. You have absolute main character energy throughout this whole photo shoot. Yet I'm sure underneath that main character energy, you were nervous.

35:06I think anyone would be. That was a big deal. I was terrified. I was terrified. I was like... But at the same time, I've been doing modelling for years now, so I kind of know my angles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I was trying to be... You know what you're doing. I was trying to own it, you know? So it was really important for me to own it on the shoot, and it was just so surreal. I was like, I am here with... Yeah. But I had to calm down because I have to shoot. So... But even like I watched the behind the scenes video in my general stalking of your life. And there was this ginormous room. I've never seen anything like it with the most amount of shoes and clothes I've ever seen.

35:47I was sort of not sideways by that. So was I. Wow. I was like, wow, this is just the, you know, dressing room or rooms they just put shoes in and clothes. Okay. Yeah. All right. But like you say, that's where main character energy took you because without the hard work, without feeling courageous enough to have goals that seem far in the distance at first, like saying from day one, my goal is to be in vogue one day, would feel a long way off. But it got you there. It got you there with the hard work. Yeah, I did say it as well. And the mindset. I think it's the mindset bit that's so important is that you're willing to take knockbacks, deal with really tough days and pick yourself back up again.

36:35And I wonder how you have overcome, not just because I know like you say in the book explicitly, you know, you have to deal on a daily basis with people staring, people saying stupid shit in boots, whatever it might be. But there's also the other side of it, which is outright bullying, which also you've experienced at school and later in life. on days like that when you've still got these goals in mind and you're you're thinking main character energy you want to fulfill your dreams but you're dealing with bullying which is an incredibly difficult thing to deal with how do you navigate that um it's a lot of trauma yes that I go through but I I really try and talk to myself so positively especially now like when I was starting as well I just when I when they told me like especially the self-help books and YouTube videos positive self-talk is so important yeah and every time I'd have a negative thought I learned okay okay I might not be as beautiful as the next person but I can inspire somebody so that's what I'd say in my head or I may not go anywhere with it but let's give it a try You know, I'd really try to be as positive as possible with anything that's negative in my mind.

37:59I just throw it back with something positive. So with the bullying, it was like, OK, this person's bullying, but that's because they don't like little people and that's them. That is them. Yeah, that's them. So I'd give it, I'd always give it a reason and not try intake it anymore. Because I learned that it's not going to, it's not going to take me anywhere. I was at rock bottom, literally, and there was nothing lower than what I went through. So somebody looking at me funny or somebody saying a comment to me that I haven't heard before, it's not going to hurt me today. It's not going to affect my confidence because I've been in vogue now.

38:47Have you been in vogue? Have you been in vogue? I think generally the answer is no. No. No, you have not been in vogue. So when I first started modelling, it was like, oh, they haven't modelled before. Yeah. You know. I love it. Yeah. So the things in my mind, I just really try to be as positive as possible. And do you think, again, with that, there's an element of you have to fake it till you make it with that? With even positive thoughts. Seriously, I would not believe anything I'd say. Like, even if I'm throwing it back, I wouldn't believe it. But you just still have to go there. Yeah, it's a conversation with yourself at the end of the day.

39:20And the person you talk to the most is yourself. So if you're lying to yourself, that's fine. I'll be delusional. Delusional's better than, like, rock bottom. Yeah, it is. Be delusional. It is. I'd rather be delusional. So it takes you to Vogue. Takes you to Vogue, the end result of all. and you say in the book when we're talking about courage and also one of the subtitles here because the book is main character energy 10 commandments for living life fearlessly which is a such an important part of this and one of the main things when we're looking at a fearless life is one of the most courageous things you can do whilst living fearlessly is to forgive can you forgive the people that have bullied you and have you?

40:04I tried. Do you know what? There was a bully that actually messaged me saying, oh, you look beautiful. I was thinking, where's my apology? Where is my apology? How many years after bullying did he get in touch to say this after your great success that he could now see? Yeah, of course. Yeah. And I thought, wow, this is so funny. I said to him, do you not remember bullying me? Oh, I was young. How was this? And then it made me realise, wow, like people who bully are really in pain. They're really immature. They're really young. And what's the point of me harping it, you know? So, and I did have one other bully that I must have disagreed with him on a post.

40:43And then he tried to say, oh, you know, you had a great childhood. I don't know why you're lying about your life and this and that. I was thinking, you're one of the main bullies. What are you talking about? Wow. so yeah like more like most of the time i just leave it yeah i just leave it because what's the point of harping on it you know so do you have to do you think you have to go to forgiveness or can you just like i'm letting it go i'm moving on indifferent i think that's important to say because i think when people have been through something very very challenging if someone has treated them very badly or you know if there's abuse or whatever involved it can be a big ass to say to someone, you've got to forgive them to move on.

41:30I think what you're saying is a really practically sensible approach that you can feel indifferent and still move on and not feel like you are dragged down by it. Exactly, exactly. If you live your life, I'm going to live mine. So that's it. You did what you did to me. I think, like, it made me stronger at the end of the day. That's how I take it. Like, the bullies made me stronger, a stronger person. and yes, it was painful at the time, but look where I'm at today. So let me feel indifferent about it. Yeah, I think it's a really good bit of advice. And then on another note in the context of confidence, something that again comes up a lot when I'm having either these conversations or just in the general work that I'm very interested in is imposter syndrome.

42:20And you talk about this. When you're following, so you've got these videos that are going viral, you've got your modeling career going, your Instagram is blowing up and you're gaining followers really quickly at a fast rate. That's, of course, when you can start to feel imposter syndrome because it's new. You're in new territory. All of a sudden you've got a big following. You've got a responsibility to keep the content up and keep pushing yourself to reach new goals. How did you deal with imposter syndrome? Maybe I still have it. I don't know. I think we all have, don't we? We all do. On any given day, you can wake up feeling confident or not.

42:57Yeah, exactly. And sometimes, OK, you're out in the street and someone recognises you and you're like, me? Me? What, you like my stuff? What? I think during lockdown, it made it even worse because we were all cooped up. And for me, I was just doing TikToks. And everyone was on their screens. And everyone was on their screens. So when the world opened up and I went out and I went to London, it was like, oh, my God, you're that girl from TikTok. Wow. TikTok's real. People have seen your stuff. Those views are real people. Yeah. Wow. Oh, my God. I love your. Do you? Do you really? Do you like my video?

43:36Mm. Oh, OK. Like, trying to believe other people, that's what it is. I can believe that I like my content or I like the content that I do. But for people to actually like it, it's insane. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. And you also talk about the, I don't know if it's a fear maybe, but the awareness that you have that you don't want to push yourself too much. Like, I've got to keep the momentum up and grow this audience as quick as possible, which again actually links back to something your dad had said to you, a bit of advice. And he says in the book, or you articulate what he'd said to you, Take your goals seriously, but don't let them weigh you down, which, again, I think is such good advice because especially in the social media era, we are presented with certain types of success that we think are more valuable than others.

44:26So, you know, the success that is seen by everybody and glamorous success rather than the success of having great friendship groups, of having quiet moments with yourself that feel really good. Like we see that success is just golden and we have to have it. And I think that's when we start to push ourselves so much and we can slip into being a workaholic and being obsessed with something rather than focused. How do you like are you on the fence with that? How do you feel about that? Do you push yourself too much? I probably do. Yeah. And then I probably feel bad if I'm not, like, reaching a certain goal, you know, especially with followers because it fluctuates so much.

45:09If you concentrate on that, honestly, you just sometimes maybe feel depressed. Yeah. Especially if you grew at such a fast pace and then at one point, you know, you're not growing as much or you're losing followers. And I've learnt now to just remember who I am. Don't harp on followers or likes or this person is getting this amount of likes or this. Remember the small, not little things, but the more meaningful things of life. So, you know, like the other day I was at my sister's birth. That was beautiful. That was beautiful. What did she have? She had a little boy. A little boy. You were actually there for that.

45:53That's her honour. Yeah. So she was in a long distance marriage. And at the time, he was in Germany. And he was flying out two days after. So you were there to support her. How beautiful is that? Yeah, which was frustrating. She couldn't have her husband there. And she asked me, she was like, oh, you know, I'm going to be scheduled for a C-section. Do you want to be my birthing partner? and I thought, wow, this is... I'd love to be a birthing partner. That's on my list of goals. Yeah, it was amazing. It was beautiful. And that's better than getting a thousand followers in a day or something. That was beautiful.

46:34Seeing my nephew just being born, I was just like, oh, no. Yeah, this doesn't get any better than that. But it's so weird because we are so obsessed with trying to quantify our value, whether it is on social media or otherwise. And I've talked about this on other episodes, but that obsession with feedback and us wanting to know, am I getting life right? And maybe Instagram can tell me if I'm getting life right. Maybe if I've got this many likes, it will be right, rather than us focusing on what we believe is right. And like you actually pinpoint there, the meaningful moments, the meaningful moments where you really, truly felt something.

47:12They're more important than anything. But I guess that is something you're going to have to keep reminding yourself of because you're on this trajectory. And on that ascent, it can be hard not to get obsessed with where you're at. It's really hard. I've learned now as well to keep my screen time low as well. Yes, we all need to do this. God, so what I do, it sounds bad, but it's good as well. Sometimes the purpose of me on Instagram that day is just to post. That's it. Not even to look at other people. and it's not to say that you know I compare myself to people yes I do we all do yeah and that's fine if I want to avoid that that's fine my my purpose that day is to just probably post sometimes now and again I'll look at people's stories or scroll but um I think as a social media content creator it's really difficult it's really really difficult because you look at other people's work and you're like why is my work not like that why can't i have it polished like that or oh you know this person's getting way more likes than me and you know like it's just it's just too much you go mad i guess the only way you can move through that without losing the plot is to be inspired by what other people are doing rather than like your dad says get dragged down by it weighed down by it yeah because again we've got a choice there to go okay maybe i want to try something different or maybe I'm gonna you know whatever it might be be inspired by someone rather than envy taking us to a place of like just feeling crap about ourselves it's easier said than done it's really hard yeah it's really really hard so that's how I look at it nowadays like especially with trends or if somebody's doing a dance routine or somebody's doing comedy it will inspire my content more than anything and um yeah the days I am like I've got time to look at everything.

49:08That's an inspiring time. I need to save this person's content or this, that, you know. But some days when I'm feeling, the other days when I'm feeling bad about myself or, you know, feeling like I don't want to be too caught up in the social world, I'll just try to avoid it and just post. Yeah, that's a really good thing to do. I'll do exactly the same. This week, for some reason, Instagram wouldn't open on my phone and it was like a relief. I had like a really good weekend of just not looking at anything. I didn't imbibe any content and it was like, I needed a little break. And then Monday I was like ready for some fresh content.

49:41What do you do on days where you don't feel fearless? Well, let's put it in another context. On days where you feel scared, what do you do? On days I feel scared and I can be at home. I'm watching Netflix with my partner, Alan, and just forgetting about the outside world. And then the next day I'm refreshed because I can't not be fearless. I have to be fearless. but if I am out and I'm feeling scared and I'm feeling I have no choice you know I kind of have to channel the fake it to make it thing about me I guess and then maybe have a mental health day the next day and have a rest day but the following day I make sure that I'm back on it because if you go down that path of feeling like feeling scared or feeling worthless or feeling because sometimes yeah I can feel like oh I'm not good enough or you know oh I'm not I'm not doing as well as I should which it sounds absolutely ridiculous because of the things I've done and I forget sometimes I just think about where I'm not you know what I'm not sometimes so um I try my best to just feel in the motions, let it ride, and just, yeah, get back on it.

51:02I like that you call it a mental health day because you're actually stopping yourself from falling any lower by saying, this is a mental health day where I will watch telly with Alan, watch a box set, whatever it might be, but then the next day I better be getting myself back out there again because I think sometimes when we just want to hide away or take a break, we don't know that length of time and we can easily then slip into, you know, I've certainly had periods where I've just thought, I just need to hide and I want to hide for a very long time and I stop socialising, I don't see my friends, I don't have those brilliant connections.

51:39But I think saying you're going to give yourself one day to really shut the door, chill out, be with someone or people that you love and doing things that make you just zone out, like watching a great TV show, reading a book, listening to podcasts, whatever it is, knowing that the next day you've got to get yourself back out there. I like that. I think that's really, really important for me, especially getting back up because it's just, you know, I've seen people just fall down a path of feeling like they're not good enough for years. And I don't want that. It's just, yeah, and then they say, oh, I'm going to be back on it soon.

52:22No, you have to be back on it the next day or right now, you know? And for me, I don't want to turn it into a wishful thinking thing. I want it to be an actual action, you know? So, yeah, if it's more than two days, then that's fine. As long as I know I have to pick myself back up, that's fine. And it goes back again, I think, to this like faking it thing. Yeah. Just get out of bed. Because I've had really interesting things around motivation where some experts have said motivation is absolute nonsense because you're waiting to be motivated. There's no such thing. You have to almost just do it.

53:05Stop waiting to feel motivated. Like, oh, maybe next week I'll feel motivated. You almost just have to go, I'm getting out of bed. I'm just getting out of bed. Yeah, you have to do the action. It requires effort. Yeah. People need to remember that. It doesn't like, you know, you don't get magical powers from it. It would be so good if you just, a magical sort of motivational moment where everything started happening. You just got to move forward. Yeah. You have to get up and move and think of the next action. How are you going to build this habit to feel good about yourself? Because it is a habit.

53:41Yeah. And then if you keep saying next week, that is a habit. Yes. That is a habit. So you're building a habit there to say, oh, I'm going to feel good or I'm going, no, it's not going to happen. It's got to be like tomorrow. Yeah, it's got to be tomorrow or now. And I guess even if you just try and it didn't work out, it's still worth it because you tried. You tried and you learned something. And then you tried again the next day. You tried something and you learned something about it and then you're going to try a different way. try figure out how how did that not work why didn't it work did you not do it for long enough that's one thing people don't do it for long enough and say they failed which to be honest with you i i understand yes people are impatient and want things right now because we are in a microwave society at the moment where you can get anything at an instant right now but you can't get like a big career or what you want or something that you're striving for tomorrow.

54:43You have to work for it. Yeah. And I think that's really important when we look at confidence because, again, going back to what we were talking about earlier, I think people, you know, we buy into these concepts that are very attractive lines to hear. Like, if you do this one thing or if you wear this one thing, then you're going to feel confident. And what, again, you've illustrated in the book and what we've been talking about today is confidence is hard work every single day. And some days you don't feel like it and you don't want to go, oh, I've got to like work on my confidence today. But if we don't, we're not going to feel it.

55:17It's kind of that simple. You're not going to feel it and it will feel effortless in the long run. It feels like a lot of effort in the beginning, yes. But eventually it will feel effortless because you'll learn how to talk so positively to yourself. You'll learn how to be, Like now I'm such a good problem solver to the point where I don't really panic about much these days. Yeah, I might have missed my train. I'm going to text whoever that I'm seeing straight away, not hide the fact that I'm late. I'm going to face, I'll face the music. It's fine. Let me just text them. They'll receive it. It's fine.

55:56But a lot of people in that situation, they would arrive maybe, I don't know, however late and then face the music there. because they were scared. But that's just an example. But I think it's so important to just be able to just grasp it, you know? When you grasp it and feel good about yourself because you've learned how to put that effort in yourself and how to be more confident, then you can do anything. Yeah, the habit of being confident, saying nice things. I remember when we had Davina McCall on the podcast. This is quite a few years ago now. And she was talking about when she was going through whatever type of therapy it was at the time, the person that was facilitating it would get her every day to stand in front of the mirror and say, I love you to herself.

56:46And at first she would find like she would not be able to say the words. But I think, again, if you set yourself a time frame of it's going to be every day for a month and by the end of it, you're not only saying it and faking it like we've I think this faking it thing is so fascinating because it is the key to like unlocking a lot of stuff. It is. By the end of it, the time frame, you're believing it because of habit. It's just a habit. It's just a habit. I reckon collectively, the majority of us, the majority of people listening to this now are in the habit of talking to themselves horribly.

57:18And we don't even know we're doing it because we're not hearing it out loud. We might not even be getting any negative feedback from people around us. But we're in the habit of going, oh, I'm so stupid. What a stupid thing to say. I shouldn't have done that. I made a really bad mistake 10 years ago and I'm still worrying about it. We constantly talk to ourselves in the most negative way. And I think it is empowering to hear it's a bad habit. It is. You're not a bad person. It's a bad habit. You're not a bad person whatsoever. No. Whatever you said to Michelle 10 years ago, forgive yourself. Forgive yourself.

57:56Okay? It's absolutely fine. I'm sure she's forgotten about it. She has. Michelle don't care anymore. She don't care. She ain't thinking about you. It's fine. It's so true. We're just in a terrible habit of doing it. Yeah, absolutely terrible. Fake it, just replace it with something nice, even if you don't believe it. Yeah, if you're thinking about Michelle, just think, oh, she's forgotten. It's fine. Yeah, she doesn't care about you anymore. She don't care. That's it. That's it. That's all you need to say to yourself. What are the other goals on your list, if there are any left to tick off? There's one I can't say.

58:32Okay. Is that like a tempting fate thing or you're doing it thing? Tempting fate. And it's not in my hands. I respect that. It's not in my hands. I wish it was. I want to be able to possibly, because this is going to be like a time capsule. I'm going to listen to this in like, you know, two years, three years from now. I've got goosebumps thinking about that. So hopefully maybe like a clothing line for people that are little, little women or little men. That would be really, really cool. Maybe even petite clothing, really petite clothing. Yeah, I really want to start like a business that will help people.

59:13I don't know what's better than clothing. Yeah, it makes you feel great. Yeah, it makes you feel amazing. And then maybe like a Hollywood film. Who knows? I don't know. that this has to happen and then we're going to look back at this and go she said it out loud for the first time on this podcast yes exactly I really would love to be in a Hollywood film whether I'm dancing, acting side character, main character main character main character energy main character energy yes, I love it take it till you make it manifest it manifest it thank you for showing those because it can be, I know the tempting fate thing, you don't want to say it out loud, but we've got to say it out loud and believe it.

59:56Yeah. Put it into action. Exactly, exactly. So I'm just sharing those two for now. But, you know, I just want to continue on this path as well. That's the goal. Yeah. And keep doing your brilliant podcast. Thank you. And write more books. Yes, write more books. I do want to do a children's book one day. That would be really cool. I think I want to inspire children with disabilities and children without disabilities as well to understand children with disabilities. So that would be really cool. Yeah, beautiful. And I love this book. It was just a really wonderful, positive boost, a real reminder of good habits, a real reminder of the importance of family, whether it's your chosen family or your family family.

1:00:43Exactly. I just really, really enjoyed it. And it was also very funny as well. And just keep doing your funny videos because I'm here for them. Thank you. I'll try. I love them. Fats, thank you so much for being on Happy Place. Thank you so much for having me. This felt like therapy, honestly. Oh, I'm so glad. I'm totally not trained, but all of these are therapy for me. I walk away cleansed and purified from these chats. I feel the same. I feel the same. Thank you, Fats. Thank you so much. Fats, what an absolute pleasure that was. I think me and Fats could have chatted for years. I absolutely loved that conversation and I'm really here for this fake it until you make it thing.

1:01:29It's a nice little phrase but actually it does say so much about having the willingness to learn to be confident. It takes practice and it does need to become a habit and I really, really learned that from Fats. Fatima's book, Main Character Energy, is out now and I strongly suggest you get yourself a copy. It's a brilliant book. Oh, and by the way, do listen to that episode with Rhonda Byrne from back in the archives if you love The Secret and if you haven't already. It's a right good 'un. I'll be back next week, but in the meantime, as always, I'd love to chat over on Instagram. We're at Happy Place Official.

1:02:02For now, massive thanks again to Fats, the producer, Anushka Tate at Rethink Audio, and to you beauties. I bloody love you.