Fearne Cotton: “I’m completely out of my depth!” Happy Place turns seven

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. Today I hope you've got your snazzy party outfit on gang because we are celebrating 7 years of Happy Place. and it started with you and a microphone. See me like shit. What are the things that go wrong? Oh my God, where do I start? It seemed like every duck and goose in southwest London had shit on our site and I went, I'm too overwhelmed and I don't feel like I should be here. That was a lovely room of like-minded people that want to learn and they're really up for this. So I just literally texted her and went, do you want to write a book?

0:39She was like, I don't know, maybe. This was a day where I had no childcare, so I had to bring my kids to work. And my manager at the time went, you're not here, are you? And I went, no. So you ask about your guest happy place, but obviously we have to know. What's your happy place? Where's your happy place? Where is my happy place? It's my bedroom. My happy place is in my mum and dad's kitchen. My happy place is people, actually. It's got to be performing magic. So there's an hour before the sun rises. It's a cliche, naturally. Oh gosh, home. You know, to be around the people that you love, you know, is...

1:19My happy place is on a beach in the Maldives. That's a good question. Is it wanky to say on stage? My happy place really, ultimately, is with animals. I was literally going to say, I think Claridge is one of my happy places. I feel like nothing bad can happen in Claridge's. I can't actually believe that it's been seven years since the first Happy Place episode with the amazing first guest Dawn French which I'll tell you all about in just a moment but it does seem wild seven years have absolutely flown by so we're going to do something a bit different today this is actually very strange for me I don't have my beautiful trusty notebook full of questions and musings in front of me because I'm not asking any questions.

2:02My gorgeous presenter mate, the phenomenal Alex Jones is here and together we're going to have a look back at some of the stuff that's made Happy Place what it is over the years and by that I mean the podcast and the festivals, the books, all of the hilarious stuff that's gone completely wrong. There's a lot of that, oh my goodness, and all of the incredible moments too where we've really come together as a community because quite frankly none of this would exist without you lot. You've also been asking me some questions on Instagram so I'm going to answer those too. We're basically just going to have a really good behind the scenes gossip.

2:37Just to let you know I'm sat here currently wearing, I don't know how to describe this outfit, it's a dress, it's sort of floor length, all the fluorescent pinks and yellows and oranges, sort of lots of bits of mesh sort of lace in rows. I mean I look like a clown is the best way to just distill that information down. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapers. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches.

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3:51Just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you're a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility and your machinery isn't working right, Grainger knows you need to understand what's wrong as soon as possible. So when a conveyor motor falters, Grainger offers diagnostic tools like calibration kits and multimeters to help you identify and fix the problem. With Grainger, you can be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly.

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5:11Go to shopify.com slash retail to upgrade your selling today. shopify.com slash retail. Well, this is really weird and wonderful, but we're going to do it. I'm handing over to Alex Jones. Here's the show.

5:47I absolutely love this dress. Me too, me too. We started. Have we started? We can. Okay. Let's just call this a start. This is how I do things, Alex. I just love this. It's just so... Oh, my God. It's ridiculous. I think we need to talk about this because nobody will listen otherwise to anything we say. They'll just be going, where's the dress from and how can I get one? Will they, though? I mean, I saw this and fell in love. Anything very brightly coloured and textured I have to buy. I thought, where... I don't go anywhere. Where am I going to wear this? I just thought, it's Happy Place's seventh birthday.

6:20That's an occasion. I'm going to wear it. I think you've done the right thing. I look a bit like, do you remember those dolls that in the 70s housed a toilet roll? Yes. It's that. It is that. It's a bit of that. I mean, a really good version of that. Yeah, like a 2025 version. But, you know, what do they say? Wear the dress today. Wear the dress today. Don't wait. Don't wait. You don't know what's going to happen. Exactly. Just wear it. And I feel really happy. It's a jolly dress. Well, we should say happy birthday, happy place. Thank you. It's so good to be seven again. Seven phenomenal years.

6:54I know. I actually can't believe it. It feels like two. It feels like it's really new still and that I'm finding my feet with it, which we are. Yeah. But seven, that feels wild to me that we've been doing this that long. Well, I think when you enjoy something. Yeah. I mean, it's true what they say. Time does whiz by. It does. But I think, you know, I think I can speak on behalf of your listeners when I say, I mean, just a huge thank you. for all the moments when I've been listening and nodded along hearing something that somebody said that I needed to hear for a long time or laughing or finding a bit of joy in quite a dark place it's just really good company yeah thank you I mean it is for me too that's the great thing about it you know I sometimes turn up to do a podcast recording and I've had I haven't slept or I'm in just a bit I'm on I'm on a downer I'm not feeling good about myself guaranteed by the end of whichever chat it is that day, I feel completely different.

7:52I feel like I'm a listener too because, you know, I'm facilitating the chats, but I'm imbibing every bit of information, advice, the storytelling. And absorbing it all. I'm absorbing it all. I've learned so much, so much. And it started with you. See me like shit. Well, I was going to say, let's go back to the conception. Yeah, yeah. The origin story of Happy Place. Yes. And, you know, where were you professionally? Where were you personally when you needed to kind of pivot completely and change what you were doing? And hence, Happy Place was born. Take us right back to the beginning. Well, I guess I started to not feel great in my early 30s, maybe even late 20s.

8:33Let's say early 30s. Just had some stuff going on and I just sort of, nothing really made sense at that point to me. Before that, I'd been luckily steadily working in the same industry from my teen years. And I just thought, I'll just keep going. And hopefully one day I'll be as successful as Ant & Dec. What else could you dream of? That's the bar. That's the bar. And I was just, it was a very narrow lane of I just have to keep doing everything to ensure that I'm on that path. And then I got to this point where I just really started not liking what I was doing. finding the feedback loop of being on the radio and in the public eye excruciating and I started to conflate I guess other people's view of me with what I knew to be true about myself which is dangerous yeah really dangerous and we all do it we do it and also you know I'm sure you have felt like this over the years and certainly doing the one show where you're exposed to that many viewers every day when you listen to that feedback and take it seriously it's not healthy no it's gonna be there but I think how seriously you take it is important so at this point I was taking it all really seriously and I thought it was all true every negative thing said about me was true and I left radio I mean this is sort of like incrementally down the line and I just thought what am I doing what what is the point of any of this I had no clue and I honestly thought at that point maybe I'll just quit everything because it's all too painful and then I wrote a book called Happy yes and that was the first time I guess I'd talked about anything remotely real because a lot of the time there's not the space to do it on the radio you know you've got to entertain people and you're never the full version of yourself because and it's not a choice you can't be because you're facilitating what they want you to do when you're facilitating a form of entertainment that is scripted and handed to you yeah it's there is no and you know you know what it's like you you can give the best version of yourself most of the time but all the other bits you just leave at home like the bit that's stressed out or sad or whatever you just think that can just wait for me when I get back home so this was the first time I kind of went actually what's going on behind me going morning everyone and playing happy music is I'm going home and I'm crying and I don't know who I am anymore and you know I was in a real period of proper depression I was on antidepressants I was feeling pretty bleak so this book I thought people might like it but also they might just think we don't care we don't want to know about what's going on in your head or I just I had no idea how it would land so you were quite scared putting that out oh my god I was shitting bricks the day before I remember thinking I need to go to every water stone in the land and break in and like nick them all or burn them like I cannot have people read this I was so scared and I actually I've not read it since I can't remember what's in there I've got no idea I can tell you literally no clue but luckily people seemed to like it so that got me sort of interested it piqued my curiosity like oh that's that's interesting people seem to like the bit of me that I can't bear vulnerable yeah and scared and normal messy and completely flawed and so then I you know carried on writing books luckily and then you know podcasting had started long before I started Happy Place the podcast but but it was still quite new it was a new medium in terms of you know how you used it people were using it in lots of dynamic ways but I felt like what I enjoyed most about my previous job was interviewing people and being interested in other people so I was like let's give it a try let's just try doing a podcast and I think like the first person I interviewed was my friend Zephyr that's the first one we recorded right just a mate of mine who's got a bloody interesting backstory and again I thought well see if people like this or not and you know it was a slow burn it wasn't like we're all of a sudden this huge thing but it felt good and that's why I kept doing it so the person that we all knew that you interviewed first was then Dawn French, who, of course, is an absolute icon, not just of comedy.

12:47And she's a lovely, lovely person. And you went to her house and you must have been feeling all the feelings like, oh, it's Dawn French, because even though that's our job to interview, you still get that. It's Dawn French. It's in her house, which great for a nose. Love. Love. but also it's kind of the birth of something that you're trying for the first time yeah and this interview is going to shape in a way what the rest of the podcast looks like oh yeah I mean I couldn't think of it in terms of that at all because at that point I was like will I even continue doing this like this is an experiment and I said to Dawn I'm starting my own podcast would you come on and she texts back and went what's a podcast brilliant because this was seven years ago so it's still a new thing and I was like we're just gonna chat and then see what happens and she was like look I'll do it but you have to come to me and I was like okay win-win we're going to Cornwall we're going to Cornwall for the day she made pasties for me and the team it was a small team actual pasties in Cornwall Cornish pasties her house was right on the beach it was the dream day and I didn't really know what I was doing because I'd never done an interview longer than eight minutes because radio tv it's like it's quick it's so quick and it's so hard to get anything deep out of someone in four minutes I think from having done the podcast now for so long it takes about 20 minutes to get to the point where I'm really relaxed and they trust me that feels like the sweet spot like oh okay we're one we're one level down we've forgotten that the cameras are here we're just chatting it's just me and you yeah that then that feels so good when I click into that bit of it's just me and this one person and sometimes you know you're talking about stuff that you think i can't believe we're talking about this you know it feels fucking special and sometimes and that does happen on your podcast because i think especially and we'll get to it in a second but especially during the pandemic i was like whoa you feel like and i know this is the point of podcast but you do feel like you're sitting in the room yeah with you and just that's why i love it people understood the tone quite quickly because it was just we're not skirting around subjects.

14:58We're diving in with them. You know, I didn't really know what I was doing, but it seemed to work. And hopefully it's just gotten better. I'd almost hate to listen back to that first one because it might be dreadful. Well, I was going to ask because I can't, I rarely watch anything back or listen to anything back because, oh, just my voice. You've got the best voice ever. How am I even on the telephone? Because of that voice. No. Disgusting. The Welsh accent with its lovely little sing-song dialect. What is not to love? I'm on yours. Are you joking? It has got the... Northwest London commoners muck.

15:33No, no, let's go. But... Voice swap. We can't. We can't voice swap, sadly. No. But we can listen back. Now, do you listen back? Did you listen to that first episode? Yes. I did listen back to that first bunch because I just thought, what is this? And are people going to be interested? And are they going to listen for the whole time? And you can only get better. And you can only get better. So I think I did listen to the first, probably actually for the first couple of years, I was really on it with listening to the edit, making sure I hadn't said something stupid. And I think I got over that initial cringe factor of, oh God, why did I say that?

16:11Whatever. And I think it helped me learn. And, you know, I've made tons of mistakes doing the podcast and just with Happy Place in general. and that I think is all part of it is that I'll always own up to it or talk about it publicly that we did something wrong or badly or whatever um but I don't so much these days I think in the moment I know if I've said something stupid or if it was a good episode or not and then it's up to everybody else but you can make notes now as you go yeah yeah yeah yeah um and I think because I'm quite happy talking about most things honestly I don't feel like I would be put in a corner where I was exposed unnecessarily and equally we say to every guest that comes on before we start recording this is collaborative if you don't like a question just say I don't want to answer that or if there's something now you want to say can you not talk about that this is not me trying to catch you out here I want this to feel really good for everyone and equally they get editorial control afterwards they can listen to it take things out if they want I'm not trying to stitch anyone up I'm not trying to get headlines here I want to make helpful conversations that our guests are happy with and for that to happen it has to be a two-way street it's got to be it's got to be so the podcast started in 2018 and as you say yeah they were around but quite new yeah this was kind of the first big one I feel like we all knew about so when we went into the pandemic in 2020 you were well established yeah but of course then everybody had to be quite agile we all had to change the way we worked how did happy place navigate the pandemic when everybody was now accessible yeah on zoom it was a weird energy wasn't it oh look tom hanks is in his pajamas yeah so great utility room i love and looking at in other people's houses the best i mean that's my favorite thing the best thing ever that's what i think about when i look back at the pandemic I know, seeing Tom Hanks and his PJs and his utility room.

18:14I mean, it was an extraordinary experience because at first we didn't know what we were doing and we were like, is this going to work on Zoom? Is this going to sound the same? And actually, we got really lucky because everybody was sat around, all the musicians' tours had been cancelled, all the actors' promo runs had been cancelled, all of the brilliant writers and psychologists and great thinkers out there were kind of twiddling their thumbs to an extent and also going through something collectively that then was spurring on new ideas. So we all of a sudden had access to all of these people and one that really sticks out.

18:48And also, you know, amongst that was the chaos of us trying to homeschool young kids, which was, I mean, I had the worst ages like you did. My daughter had just started reception. What the hell? Rex was in year two. Rex was in year two. I was like, this is a shit show. This is so horrendous. But probably made it better because you were in the thick of it, like everybody else. And I went basically up into my stepson's bedroom. He had gone to uni for the first year, so he had a seriously strange time, sort of being locked in a halls of residence. Wow. So I basically said, mate, I'm taking over your whole bedroom, and I set up a mini studio up there.

19:26But I'd had the doorbell going, police cars going past. It was so kids coming in. It was a nightmare. Yeah. Somehow we did it. But this one episode that really sticks out is Alicia Keys. Well, I was sat there and she was in this gorgeous room in her house. And I'd seen her house on Architectural Digest. So I was like, I know where that window is. It's your curved window that overlooks the pool. Well, her house. So she came on the show from her house. Yeah. It's like Buckingham Palace. It's insane. I mean, I know she's successful, but Christ on the back. It's like a spaceship. It's so extraordinary.

19:58It's amazing. So she was sat by this gorgeous sort of billowing curtain and she looked magnificent. And I was like, and I was in my stepson's bedroom with just shit everywhere. And I was like, how is this allowed? How am I allowed to talk to her on Zoom? This feels completely wrong. And she was unbelievably open. So honest. Just perfect for, I think, women of my age to hear where she's at and how she's got there. I walked away just feeling, I was buzzed after that conversation. And I sort of fell in love with her even more. So it was a great time for Happy Place, I have to say. although you know challenging times for everyone in many other ways we had access to all these great people and people and there was a desire to hear honest conversation so we ran with it yeah because I think you know I mean the horrible part was people experience all of us experienced quite dark times yeah during that period yeah um times of joy as well but also you know I think for the first time mental health was really at the forefront of everybody's mind and people were looking for podcasts as well for companionship yeah as somewhere to feel like they were still belonging to something yeah so did you feel that pressure I don't know if I felt it as a pressure I felt it I felt it was a privilege to be I don't know having this chat with loads of people that really needed it and I really needed it you know at this point during that time I was still having a bunch of panic attacks.

21:29I remember I was asked to go on question time to talk about mental health, ironically, and I had a massive panic attack. I had a massive panic attack the night before, and I just said, I can't do it. I can't. And it was over Zoom. I was like, I can't expose myself in this way at the moment. I can't do it. And I pulled out and I was so annoyed at myself. Like that could have been such a great opportunity to be on a big platform like that, to talk about mental health and I couldn't do it so it was you know I think we were all whatever we were going through was sort of enhanced during that time so I you know and panic attacks have sort of had on and off for a long while but it felt really lovely to know that people were like having their daily walk listening to the podcast or were feeling really bloody lonely and we were somehow trying to connect the dots we actually did our happy place festival online that year I mean that was Oh my god.

22:24A great learning. Because we, for some mad reason, decided to do a month-long festival. What were we thinking? Where we had a full schedule every day of the month. Yeah. Online, so it'd be like a yoga class. I remember. Followed by meditation, followed by a podcast, followed by something else. We overworked wildly. It was an experiment, but we pushed ourselves way too hard. but again I think it helped people feel like there's something for me to do I'll check in with this talk or this class and it felt like a privilege I mean we were under pressure but we but we loved it we did love it and we learned a hell of a lot and to be able to provide a service at a time like that yeah felt like it gave I mean I felt like I had purpose because I was still going to work exactly Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie.

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25:19Sign up for your$1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash retail, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash retail to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash retail.

25:34so when you started because obviously happy place is now a lot more than the podcast there's all these different arms was that always the plan or did that happen organically no i mean i think all of it started as a happy accident now we're much more considered and i've got a really great team and we're thinking forward and we're looking at the blind spots that we have what could we do next But I think back then it was like, oh, this is working. What can we do next? Should we try a festival? So we did a pop-up festival. I think it was 2018. So it was quite early on. And there were maybe 200 people who came down.

26:10So we were like, oh, there is a demand because 200 people want to come to this. There must be more out there. And it was in London. And it was a small indoor event all day. We did yoga and workouts and sound baths and talks. and it felt great like we all walked away like wow that that was a lovely room of like-minded people that want to learn and they're really up for this so shall we try and do it on a bigger scale and then we did the first live year was 2019 and we went full scale straight away which was terrifying terrifying I felt completely out of my depth huge imposter syndrome when I turned up like this is too big I don't like it I I don't know how to walk around this and feel okay about this being something we've done it was just very overwhelming but now I think we see it as just a big celebration you know biannual celebration we do London and Cheshire and it's just the best I love being there meeting everybody getting big hugs hearing everyone's stories people will just come up to me and tell me their story straight away which is just a total honor that people feel that they can do that.

27:22And I just adore it. But that first year, absolutely shitting my pants. I mean, the thing is, it is kind of the pinnacle, isn't it? Because people listen throughout the year. They buy the books, which we'll get on to. You know, they do all the stuff and then they can actually come and have a chat in the flesh. It is, though, huge pressure. I've been. I was there in Chiswick House, my old stomping ground last summer. And there's so much stuff there. I mean, it feels really nice to be there. It's a good vibe. It's a good vibe. But I mean, but behind all of that is a lot of work. Yes. As you say, it's a huge operation.

27:59Huge. What are the things that go wrong? Oh, my God. Where do I start? First of all, I have to say the biggest thank you to the festival team, first and foremost, because they are the most incredible group of women. It's a big group of women. We sit around this big old long table chatting about the festival all year long. Then we bring some men in at the end and they come on site and help do all the other bits and bobs. But it is a core group of the most brilliant females I've ever met in my life. They're amazing. But there are so many variables with a festival that are out of your control completely.

28:33One of them being the British weather. Ah, that, yes. We love it. You know, the festival's in the summer, but that means nothing, as we all know. That means absolutely nothing. So we've had everything from the most scorching weather, which was incredible. That was 2019. 2019? Or was it the year after that? Anyway, I think it was 2019. It was boiling. Little Matt from my team got totally sunburned. Didn't put sunblock on. He was like a little mobster by the end of it. But it was gorgeous. If anything, too hot in some of the tents. So everyone, someone always moans about something. Of course they do.

29:07It's too hot in there. But this is happy place. Get out. I can't meditate in there. It's too hot. but the worst weather year we had was two years ago there was a yellow weather warning so the week leading up so we start building on site about four days before wonderful hester on the festival team starts bringing in the trucks getting all the tents put up it was torrential and i went down on the friday there was it seemed like every duck and goose in southwest london had shit on our site There was just shit everywhere. It was torrential rain. And I was like, I want to do a runner. I don't want anything to do with this.

29:43I don't want to be part of this. I might not turn up because this is horrendous. But you can't. You can't not. So on Saturday morning, luckily the rain had stopped, but we had a yellow weather warning of 70 mile per hour winds. With tents. With tents. Every other event shot, Kew Garden shot, Goodwood shot. We were like, we're not shutting. We were going to carry on. yeah the thought of shutting and you know people have booked train tickets they've booked hotels to stay but also the logistics of them do you refund you like what how does that look just doing it we're just doing it and actually it was fine so the two incidences that happened on that day a tent pole flew out of the main tent at one point and it was fine the tent has got millions poles so it wasn't gonna fall down but due to like legal you know legal reasons you've got to get everyone out of that tent.

30:33So we had to pivot and get everybody out. They were all waiting for Tom Grennan to do a live podcast. There's three, four hundred people. We had to move to the outdoor stage. Now, my team, completely calm, cool as cucumbers. You wouldn't even know there was drama. It was just whispering in his ears, we're going to move to the next tent, guys. Should I tell you the only person who was having an absolute shit show panicking and freaking out? Go on. Lynn Cotton. My mum. My mum. What was Lynn Cotton saying in all the time? She was in her four-inch wedges backstage. Lovely. What's coming on? And I went, nothing.

31:07You don't need to. It's nothing to do with you. Should I stay to watch the podcast because we want to get the dog back home? Or should we? What are we going to do? What's going on? Mum, I, at this point, I'm not worried so much about if you watch or not. We've just got to move all of these people over there. So you go and have a chat with Dad. You do what you think's best. And we'll work that out later. Literally the only one freaking out. everyone else so cool we managed to make it work it was windy but we got through it and I think we learned enough about pivoting to feel like we could deal with most things because that was extreme weather that wasn't just like a bit of rain yeah it was extreme I think the first year was our biggest lump of learnings because we've never done it and we didn't have enough food trucks the queues were too long you know we had a big podcast guest just before lunchtime so then everyone went to lunch at the same time just things that we hadn't thought about properly which we now think about a lot yeah so that year you know there were people some people feel the need to come up to you and complain to your face which is an interesting yeah yeah that is interesting isn't it yeah i mean what are you supposed to do about the weather don't know you are not thought don't know and i had a few people come to me and go i cannot believe these lunch queues this is ridiculous i'm like i know i'm really i'm really genuinely sorry about this But it's a festival.

32:27And, you know, we'll do better next time. And we're just learning on our feet. And they're in the minority, those people. Having been there last year, I have to say, I believe you when you say those people are in the minority. Because there's a lovely feeling there. There is. I've never seen a room full of people look so serene and just happy in their own skin. Yeah. And just very, I don't know, appreciative of the surroundings that they were in. They looked like they were having the best time. I always have a little cry on the Sunday at the end of the day because I can't believe that we've done it.

33:04And my sort of faith in humanity is slightly restored. Just being in amongst alone. And that's nothing to do with us. I'm not saying, yeah, like Happy Place, you know, have created these humans and their mindset. Just so many lovely people turn up. Like-minded people. That's the point, isn't it? And they're so willing to tell their story. And I hear all sorts of things throughout the day that, you know, terribly sad, terribly beautiful, amazingly connective and everything in between. But on Sunday, I feel so overwhelmed by it. And, you know, I haven't not had a cry on a Sunday. It's just, you know, it's just all too much in the best possible way.

33:47Just lovely people out there. There's good eggs out there. and also though you're taking on all that stuff that they are telling you yeah and so that's the release isn't it yeah it's full on I have to sort of work out what to do with a lot of those stories when I leave because you know I can't be responsible for much really and I'll listen happily but you do walk away going god you know there's people going through utter shit out there there really is yeah I think it's motivating because then we can come and you know regroup and go right we haven't done a podcast on whatever it might be that I've just heard See, it's interesting with the subjects because they are so varied, so diverse.

34:25Hattie has got a question on that subject. Hi, Atherne and the Happy Place fam. Off the top of your head, can you think of an interview or conversation you might have had on the pod that has been the most impactful on your life since it was shared with you? Any advice or theories that you've incorporated routinely as a result? Yeah. Whatever I say, I'll kick myself and think, I should have said this because it's so hard. There's been so many brilliant guests on. I mean, that is an impossible question. It's hard. But I do remember, I'm a big fan of Elizabeth Gilbert. She's my favourite writer. I was so starstruck meeting her.

35:03I was almost giddy. And I had verbal diarrhoea when I started talking to her. I regret a lot of that first encounter with her. We've all been there. We've all been there. We've all been there. I was just going... and then I like cringely gave her one of my books. I just wish I hadn't done that. That's not cringe. It is. I was too overexcited. But anyway, she was talking about the time when her partner at the time was really, really ill, terminally ill, in hospital. And she was sat by her bedside and having all the thoughts that you do when you know someone that you love is probably not going to be here much longer.

35:41She's really sort of existential and hard to get your head around and then on her phone she's got emails from people she knows texts from people she knows emails from friends of friends emails from people she doesn't know like we all do this overwhelming inbox constant supply of messages we're meant to stay you know on top of it and in contact with all these people and she just deleted everything she was like this does not matter in the context of what I'm going through this doesn't matter so that one really stay with me because I have so often like most nights I'm trying to cook the kids tea or rushing around I can hear my phone vibrating and I'm like oh my god another email and then I'll quickly try and do that and then I'll come back to the dinner and I've burnt something and then the kids are shouting at me and and it's just all such a bombardment of information and I always think about her deleting it and I don't I'm not as bold as I was gonna say have you done it no but it makes me just stop and pause and think if I don't get back to someone on text for three days they're not going to hate me no the world's not going to end it's going to be fine so it that was a small tweak in ways but a big story that is a big tweak because sometimes the girls in the makeup room and they look at my phone they go does that not worry you al like 456 unread emails and i'm like i just i just can't get round to it i just haven't got the capacity i do what i can Why should you either?

37:10But delete them? Elizabeth Gilbert, that is extreme. But I like it. I like it. It's really stuck with me. Really stuck with me. And then one conversation that I'll never forget, because it was probably one of the most important chats I've had in my life, in or outside of work, was with this amazing guy who used to be a monk. It's called Bjorn Nathiko Lindeblad. And he had finished his sort of monastic life that he'd lived for 17 years to go and do talks and lead a more regular life and he met the love of his life and was living in Sweden, where he's from. And then he got diagnosed with ALS, which is obviously, you know, a horribly debilitating illness that leads to you dying.

37:53I never remember what it stands for. I don't, but it's basically a degenerative illness where it just stops your body from working very, very slowly. And he knew at the time of talking to us that he had about a month to live. and I cannot tell you how generous he was with his view on life and it was just so poignant and weirdly, and this sounds, I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but weirdly one of my cats had died the day before and he'd been told or he'd read it online and he brought it up. So we really got, and I was in mega grief about this cat. I'd had this cat for 21 years. I was so in the thick of the grief at the time.

38:34so we talked about death in a very sort of real way in a way that I'd not talked about death before and he was just so generous and broad-minded and actually quite celebratory was he yes he'd had a living funeral a few months before and he was talking about his life in the most joyful way and talking about death in a curious way like what is it gonna be so what's next was he scared not so much not so much i think he'd really made peace with it which is so rare well and it's i mean it's supremely brave i'm scared of death every day of my life same same same same hence why i was so fascinated i was hanging off his every word and and then when i had to say goodbye to him at the end of the chat i didn't know how to do it because that's gonna be it see you soon or like because the reality is you might not have ever spoken to him again anyway anyway but if I knew it but it was the fact yeah and it felt like it so how did you how did you do it cried the whole time I was just sort of weeping and it was so and I felt like I really sort of connected with him during that chat so did that change then the way you look at death it did a bit at the time um I was talking a lot to my late friend Chris Hellinger who, you know, I've been on the one show to talk about Chris and with Mara and, you know, she's amazing and Chris was really up for talking about death.

40:08I wasn't. I was terrified. It's awkward. I don't know what to do. How do you talk about it? So I think having that chat with Bjorn then opened up more conversation with me and Chris because she would send me articles or thoughts about it and I'd be cagey and I didn't want to say the wrong thing and then that makes you not say anything which is not great not helpful yeah so i think it did help open up a bit of an avenue for me and chris to talk more about it which i'm you know again i'm so grateful for everything she taught me and she ended up having a living funeral about a couple of years later and some of that was inspired by bjorn with dawn french with all coming together i mean it was just the best the best day but yeah it was that was one that i'll never ever forget and i feel so grateful I got to do that chat.

40:53Reminds me of the big stuff. I think though when you've lost somebody like Chris, I mean we lost one of our uni girls and they're my best friends and we lost Maggie. Oh so sorry. And she was just hilarious. Her handbag was a lunchbox. You know and she was just so funny she worked in the newsroom in the shortest of miniskirts. Oh I love her. She was just a character. And that made me feel better about it because I thought oh well if Mag's gone through it and she's obviously out the other side must be alright and the fact that I don't know sometimes you need somebody you know in a way who's I don't know it's a very odd subject it's so abstract I'm still terrified of it yeah I am it's so abstract and sometimes I'm sure you feel like this about Maggie I think sometimes I sort of think oh Chris is that like she's just in Cornwall that's what I think and then I'm like oh my god she's not and I can't get my head where is she I cannot get my head around it but they're somewhere they're somewhere they're definitely somewhere yeah but it's just so it's so abstract so surreal so you know and we we hadn't covered death really on the podcast so I think that was quite confronting for a lot of people but I feel lucky we can just we can chat about this stuff very openly and you know sometimes I mean because you cover I mean insomnia skincare OCD you know all of it yeah I mean the whole gamut does who you interview and who you sort of ask to come on depends sometimes on where you are is there any sort of reflection of where you are personally at that time I guess so I mean not always sometimes people you know on a very base level are doing a press junket run and and yeah like we want they're available and they're available but I think yeah sometimes I'll say yes to people that maybe my team might go really and I'll go oh this is trust me this is going to be fascinating and it's someone that no one's ever heard of it could be a book that I've read that I thought was great or someone that I've been introduced to and I think they're amazing there's no sort of scientific formula as to how we pick our guests or why they're on and that star sometimes align in isn't it because you might have read the book because you felt a certain way which then led you know leads to the guest absolutely yes it's all sort of organic yeah with the books though because they're obviously an addition to happy place and a very obvious addition because you know it fits doesn't it it fits perfectly but you know oh my god how are you just how are you reading all the books for book club how are you finding all these authors yeah how are you then because we know and it shows that you do a massive deep dive on your guests i mean there's a lot of homework there and you know as Chris Evans always said, fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

43:36And we've both, you know, got our notebooks and all the rest of it. But in terms of time management, I think people who listen to this podcast and appreciate what Happy Place does as a brand, just wonder how the hell do you do it? Yeah, the book thing is tricky because I have to read a lot, like a hell of a lot. So are you a speed reader? Not really. And because also I write notes in the margin so I can then collate all the stuff for the interview so it's not a quick process but I like going to bed really early luckily so I'm reading every night for probably 45 minutes when I start to get sleepy I'm like okay we're good and then I am in the terrible habit of when I put my daughter to bed she wants me to sit outside her bedroom while she falls asleep so I've got another half an hour there and that's where I'm also reading so I've got a stack of books by my bed like this and I'm I'm like, what is the order that I need to read?

44:29I'll grab one. Oh my God, yes. But I do love reading. Even if I had, rarely, but like an afternoon off, I would want to read in the bath. I don't think there's any better combination. Absolute heaven. So I am just reading a lot. And I don't really watch TV that much. Something has to really grab me. Like I just devoured The Last One Laughing. Best show I've seen on TV. Oh my God, ever. Hilarious. I just loved it. Do you think it's because they are comedians? Because I don't think it would work as well with just normal people. No, no, no. These are the best comedians out there and they are so clever.

45:05Yeah. Catching each other out. I've never laughed so much in my life. I have loved it. But I so rarely watch a series. I'm so behind. I haven't even seen bloody Breaking Bad. I haven't watched ER. It's 20 years old. I'll make you feel better. Neither have I seen ER. And I got to series three of Breaking Bad and decided I didn't like it. Oh, God, you wasted a lot of time there, babes. Only because? I was like, there are seven or whatever seasons. Haven't got the time. No, if I've got the time, if the kids go to bed and I've got time and I'm not knackered, I'll read. I'll read any. And also it helps.

45:36It makes me a better writer. So there's no downside to it. But yeah, I am reading a hell of a lot. I mean, book club, we have a book a month, but they're always brilliant books. We would never pick a shit book. So that's a joy. Well, what do you look for in an author then? I think if it's just for book club, it's just something we know our audience will love if it's something we're publishing I think we're just trying to cover all bases again subject matters that are going to really be helpful we've got a sort of internal line that we use which is something along the lines of you know it's either books or stories that are going to bring joy or educate something like that so we we know if a book's going to resonate or not and what subject matter to to pull from so we were really really lucky last year we had two Sunday Times.

46:23I think they're both number ones actually. Paloma, Faith and Youngblood. I was like why hasn't Paloma written a book about motherhood? And also why hasn't she just written a book? She's one of the smartest people I've ever met. So did you go to her and say look? So I just literally text her and went do you want to write a book? And she was like I don't know maybe. And then wrote the most sensational book that everyone is still talking about. It was in the top ten for weeks on end. It's so good. It's called Milf if you haven't read it. And then again with Youngblood, I'm just a mega fan. I think he's a superstar.

46:59He's like one of the only rock and roll stars of this new generation. And I was like, he's got so much to say. He needs to put pen to paper and do this. So he made this amazing Wreck-It journal for us. Again, I just said, do you want to come to my office and have a chat? This was a day where I had no childcare. So I had to bring my kids to work. It was one of those days. So I was like, kids get to meet Youngblood. And they were like, who? they're too young yeah so anyway he was lovely to the kids and then I sat them in a corner with a tablet and they just gamed for two hours whilst I talked to young blood and then one of my team just kept giving them sweets I was like this is an absolute shit show um but he said yes and again top 10 Sunday Times best-selling books we were so chuffed so yeah that feels like a really exciting new it's for me what I miss about doing Radio 1 is the opportunity to find a new band or artist and help them on their way and I haven't well this is it so this is the new opportunity is finding someone who you know has got a book in them yeah and and giving them that opportunity so I love that bit it's like my favorite thing well there's somebody who's a listener who's been in touch and this is very timely let's hear from Megan hi Fern I'm 25 years old and I've recently started fertility treatment using donor sperm as for a long time it's been my dream to become a mum even though I'm single.

48:20As I've been going through my fertility journey I've been writing down my thoughts, my feelings, my experiences and questions that I've had and I'm hoping maybe one day that my story can be shared with the world, maybe inspiring other people my age to just go for it if they want to do the same. My question to you is how did you go about navigating the publishing world and bringing your first book to life? Do you have any nuggets of knowledge that you could share with me please thank you wow what a babe there's so much to say on that isn't there so much you know my first thing is just start writing it yeah the book there's never a great time to write a book and there's no moment where you think today's the day the book's going to come out of me you've just got to start and that first bit you write might be a pile of shit so you might go back and rework it down the line but as long as you're just getting things down on your laptop every day if you can could be two words you're in the flow of it so I think just write it Megan and then I think it's all about now with books like the whole the book industry has changed so much over the years I mean I've only been in it for about 10 years but it's changed so much over the years and now so much of it is about building out from that book so making sure that you're talking about it on social media you're giving people that don't even like books a taster of what you're talking about so they're hooked in with the subject matter I think fertility is such a hot topic and one that so many people no matter where they are in their journey with it or what age they are want to feel armed with knowledge and also want to hear positive stories because there's so many negative ones so I think you've just got to keep putting it out there until you get that following it's all about building that following and getting people involved with your story so by the time the book's there you've got an engaged audience who are like oh my god I this is the exact book I need yeah this is the book I need what I mean with that I mean so many things Megan at 25 is so sure she wants to become a woman that is amazing to have that clarity yeah that young and to actually go for it I mean already there's a market for that yeah even before she's written a word I'd buy it that's what we're all craving is real stories and honesty we're so bored of everything looking shiny and perfect and we want to hear the nitty gritty so I think a story like that is going to be great If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger.

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52:18It must be so satisfying to be able to get in touch with Paloma and say, do you want to write a book? And not just people that are out there in the public eye, people like Megan or a listener who might have a fantastic idea for a story or a different take on something and you can do that yeah is the books angle I mean this is a hard question because it's like picking children you've got the festival you've got the books you've got the merch now yeah which I imagine is the fun bit yeah merch we sell much at the festival and online but we're starting our whole marketplace we've sort of soft launched this year we've got lots of lovely things on this that's a whole new monster that we're dealing with but which are you most proud of i would say it's got to be the podcast because it's an oversaturated market when i sort of i'm talking about the sort of the boring businessy side of it to stay relevant or to stay to keep people hooked in is getting harder harder and harder and i'm i'm not i'm no spring chicken you You know, when you're 25, you can naturally build this big following.

53:26People are excited by you. You're young and gorgeous. You know, I'm not. Well, we're in the twilight. We're in the twilight, babe. We are. So we've got to work harder. Work harder. And really, and I only want to hone my craft further, get better at what I do. I feel like I'm on rung one of the ladder. I don't feel like I'm anywhere near where I want to be with how I'm conducting interviews, with where I could take happy place, not in a sense of, I want to take over the world, but what am I doing? How could I be doing this better? It's not just where you can get to as a self-development. Correct, correct.

54:04And I think the levels of comfort within that feel important to me. And I think the podcast is a never-ending opportunity to do it because every week I sit down with a different person and I feel completely different each time because it's a different person and it's a different story. And that's the joy, isn't it? And that's the joy. And I can keep getting better. And I think it's still the one place where people, because they're listening so privately and intimately, they do feel perhaps that they can let down their own guard and maybe discover things about themselves. That's what I'm doing when I'm listening to the guest speak.

54:40So I'm still immensely proud of that. And I don't mind saying that. I think when we're, like British people, are very nervous to say they're proud of anything. But I do feel proud of the podcast and that we're still going. And it doesn't feel genuine when people say, oh, no, you know, everything's shit. Because, no, you wouldn't still be doing it. You have to find the moment to celebrate. Yeah. And also I work fucking hard. And I think that's the other thing, you know, I think I was very scared to say that before. I was like, oh, I've just been so lucky. Yeah, I have been lucky. I got really lucky when I was 15 getting my first job.

55:11I have worked my absolute tits off and I continue to. To stay in it. Probably too much. And that's something that I'm trying to learn to do is have more balance and try and give myself a break. But I love what I do. It means so much to me. And I am constantly scared it will all go. Constantly scared it will all go. Because, oh, my God, people ask me, why are you still on that show? Because I love it. You know, I really value the job. I still feel excited by it. And I don't know where I'd be without it because it gives me structure, not just routine but in terms of myself i like the preparation i like doing it i like the buzz and also you're fucking good at it well no and don't be british and go well i'm not you're fucking good i have some days where i'm i'm better than others you're impeccable like i i've watched the one show a million times i've never seen you stumble on a word fuck up like you are impeccable and i think that as women again we are nervous to say that we're good at things but also that it feels really good when you're good at something it feels really good and that is about time and effort put in you don't turn up a good presenter no all of us were shit when we started we were absolutely shocking it's hard work but you do hours and hours and hours to the point where you know do you know what i nailed that interview do you know what i nailed that one show and it feels great why would you not want to do that there are days of course where you go what i was awful Oh my God, I can't believe today is like this and I don't feel I can do anything and you've got something massive to do.

56:47When have you had a day where you full, you know, what's the day that you can really recall and you think that was not a good day, you doubted yourself and it all went tits up? Do you know what? I had one at the festival. It was Tatton Park two years ago. And my manager at the time went, you're not here, are you? And I went, no, can you tell? And I don't think anyone else would be able to. No. And I went, I'm too overwhelmed and I don't feel like I should be here. And it was so wild being called out on it because I thought I was doing a pretty good job of just going, going on with emotions of saying hello to thousands of people and interviewing people on stage and being dragged from pillar to post and doing selfies.

57:27And, you know, it's not normal to do that. It's not normal to think you are worth it. Like, why does someone want a selfie with me? I'm just some random person who's totally flawed and bumbling through life. I was having one of those days where I was like I shouldn't be here I shouldn't fucking be I shouldn't be on the stage I don't deserve this you know I was having a real downer and her calling me out on it actually enabled me to go oh god yeah that's what I feel like that's why I'm jumping out my own skin because I feel like I don't deserve to be doing this and I've had it before on the podcast I've had it when I'm doing TV shows terribly so that I don't want to do telly at the moment where I just think I shouldn't be here.

58:09I shouldn't be doing this. And I think the only way to get around it, you know, I have made drastic decisions to not do certain things, but I think calling yourself out on it, like I feel unworthy of being here or I feel out of my depth. And actually, then going one level deeper, the absolute terror of the sort of fear of being unliked sits beneath a lot of it. Like if I'm not good or people find out that I'm not as good as they think I am, they're not going to like me. And I don't even know what that fear is. We've all got it. We don't want to be disliked. And it's really tricky when you land on that.

58:53It's like, yeah, I just want to be liked. But that is the real truth. Yes. Because people skirt around going, well, what is it? I've got imposter syndrome. And it is all of that. But it's the thing that you just want to be liked. Even when you have a little bit of insecurity, you just want to be liked. It's that simple. And our job's tricky because if we're not liked, we haven't got a job. Well, no career. So it's sort of survival. And that sounds really dramatic, but it's sort of survival because I've got fuck all if I'm not doing this. You know, you're going to go back to mum and dad's in Wales.

59:25What are you going to do? I'm going back to East Coast. Where am I going? Like, it's terrifying. You just want to be liked. So on those days, it feels so heavy that weight because you just want to be liked. And if you're not liking yourself, that is a really hard place to be. It's not fun. So I have those days all the time. And usually within 10 minutes of doing a podcast, I can talk myself out of it. And or on a festival day or a big day, I'll just take myself away and just have a chat with myself about it for a minute and say to one of my team members, I just need to not speak to anyone for like half an hour and then I'm going to be back in the room and everything's going to be okay again.

1:00:03Because it's very overwhelming. But it's so normal to have those days. We all have them. We all have them. We all have them. Hopefully not in Gunnersbury this summer. No, not allowed. And if I do, I'll just have a quiet word with myself and all will be fine. So you're Tatton Park and Gunnersbury this year. Brilliant. Yeah, new venue, which is, you know, exciting slash nerve wracking, you know, because it's a whole new thing. But the festival will be the same. It's just a whole new plot. but bigger and better. So Happy Place the Future. Yes. So we've got the books, we've got the merch. Yeah. That's so fun.

1:00:35And we've got the podcast, obviously. The festival. Yeah. Pipe Dreams for Happy Place. I really want Marketplace to grow. It's our first year. We've only really soft launched it at the moment. But what we discovered at the festival was our shopping area with all these small little curated brands that are usually British owned companies. a lot of them have female founders a lot of them are just startups one or two people that area is so popular and not only are people going along and buying stuff from these small brands but also they're chatting to the brand founders and um and learning about their story and and it just feels like a real hub in there so bringing that to life for our online marketplace feels very natural and and like we're we're on this journey with all these little brands it's so exciting some of them are bigger brands some of them have already established but it's a really lovely place to distill you know the well wellness market is very very overwhelming and all of us are like am i meant to be taking magnesium or not putting this face cream on or not drinking this How many scoops of the cacao?

1:01:45I can't even say cacao. Cacao. It's also, so what our aim is with Marketplace is just to distill it all down and go, these brands are ones we really believe in and we know that they are doing great work and that they work. So let's put them all in one place just to cut out all the noise, come and shop here. So that feels really exciting. And I'm getting more and more into sort of the learnings of the business side and that feels like a big one. But that's also very exciting, isn't it? like a new skill it is it's a whole new world to me and I'm learning on the job and all these new terms I'm having to learn and I have to keep asking questions what does that mean I don't know I've forgotten and do you pick the stuff yes we're picking all the brands brands are coming to us we're picking brands we're going through big lists of brands like we do we've done for the festival every year it's so fun but it's also a natural addition isn't it because I feel like a lot of your listeners will be those people who especially maybe in the pandemic started their kitchen table businesses and thought I need to a lot of them are those brands yeah and do something different and have to see them succeed and be able to give them a bit of a leg up oh it's amazing it's great it's great I'm really excited about that project and I think really I don't ever want to forget where we started or what the backbone is which is the podcast so if I take my eye off the ball with that it will go wrong so I'm really day to day with it am I doing a good enough job am I doing enough homework and just keeping as on it as I can with that um I'm writing a new book at the moment that we're going to publish through happy place which I'm excited about so that feels like a near sort of project future project and then I think just being open to where where it could go I don't know you know as I said it's not like I've got this burning desire to be like the biggest brand on the planet I just want to do what we're doing well yeah and I just want people to feel like they're part of it and that we're not going we're wellness you know I love doing a bit of yoga I rarely meditate at the moment which is something I need to rectify I am floored beyond I do I cock up all the time I get things wrong I make poor decisions I don't want wellness in the uk to be this lofty exclusive thing i want happy place to make us feel like we can all be part of it no matter where we're from what our background is what we've tried what we haven't the disability community are a huge thought in our minds especially for the festival that we are as inclusive as possible and we've got loads more learnings that we're working on year on year but for all parts of the brand to be as inclusive as possible so it doesn't feel like something just for a niche group of people.

1:04:31I'm so glad you said that because, you know, you get to a certain age, scared of death, as we've just discussed. I am trying to extend my life as much as possible. And I feel like some areas of wellness are very exclusive. I don't understand. I don't know what I'm supposed to take. No, and we're time poor. You know, and we're time poor. Why can't somebody break this down for us? Yeah, this is what we're desperately trying to do. And also, I think the main message with all of it, which gets left out of wellness is, Give yourself a fucking break. Stop thinking. Wellness has become this thing where it's really militant.

1:05:05And if you don't do all of these things, you're not well. And then that becomes boring. But then it becomes stressful. Stressful. Yeah. That antithesis of what we're trying to do. Have a sound bath. I haven't got time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're failing because you're not doing enough meditating. Whatever. Just go easy on yourself. I think that's what we're trying to say in a plethora of ways. And we'll continue to look for ways to do that. now you end every podcast by talking about your guests I should have thought about this answer here we go I mean you knew it was coming no I didn't I forgot well we've got to do it because behind the scenes I forget to ask that question every week and Anushka my producer has to come in and go can you answer what the happy place is shit so I've forgotten again so you ask about your guest happy place but obviously we have to know what's your happy place where's your happy place the person that asks it every week needs time to think i genuinely don't know what to say there are some obvious actual places like being by the sea which is so cliche but it is oh no in dorset by the coast in the sea if possible euphoria um who makes up the happy place well i would say obviously you know close friends and family are everything to me and it's a small group of people but they make me feel so great my old schoolmates my friend Claire my friend Kai obviously my kids and my stepchildren it's just they're like so important in my life but I think my happy place figuratively are those little moments where I feel very accepting of myself it's bordering on liking myself which is what I'm aiming for those moments that is my happy place where it's just, it's not like euphoria.

1:06:55It's like a low level, it's a low key contentment where I just think, oh yeah, everything's kind of, you know, it's not, not everything's all right because there's all sorts of shit shows going on wherever, but I'm sort of accepting of myself, my flaws and my good side. And I think when I get to that place mentally, that is a happy place. Congratulations. Happy birthday. Thanks, babe. Congratulations on the dress. That's ridiculous. Thank you so much for doing this. What a pleasure. I was like, who is going to be the slickest interviewer in town? Not me. It's Alex Jones. And we're so grateful for you giving up your time to do this.

1:07:33It's an honour and a privilege. As a listener, this has been a lovely insight. I love you, mate. Love you. Thank you. Well, Alex, thank you. I mean, not only is she just the best pro and the best person at interviewing, I just loved that. And it isn't like I ever really stop and take stock of anything that I've been doing. So to sort of reflect on the last seven years felt really special. And I'm really grateful for you lot listening to that and for being such a huge part of it. I love meeting you all at the festivals and at little events across the year. But day in, day out, we're having a good old natter on Instagram.

1:08:08So do come and join us on at Happy Place Official. It's honestly the most beautiful thing seeing you lot share your own stories and really support each other too. And to carry on milking our seventh birthday, we're going to be sharing lots of lovely chats from the podcast archive that you might discover you haven't heard before. All right, I'm back here next week with a brilliant Aussie icon, absolute icon. In the meantime, a massive thanks again to Alex, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you because you literally make all this what it is.

1:08:58so

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