Get fillers or age as you are! Caroline Hirons shares the skincare you NEED at every age

0:00Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that's all about feeling good in your own skin. Today I'm chatting to Caroline Hirons. I think it depends on what makes you happy. I think we can be way too judgmental on whether people want to do things to their skin in their face and whether they don't. If someone is perfectly happy, aging the way we all age, they're not interested in any kind of injectable, they use the basic skincare just so their skin feels comfortable, have at it. If someone else wants to do every injectable and have their lips blown up, that's entirely their choice.

0:31I always think as a woman, I can't be pro-choice for a woman, but then go, but you shouldn't do this. I'm not big on the word shouldn't. What you shouldn't do is sell misinformation. Well, I do hope that your homes are stinking of cinnamon and everything's all twinkly and bright and gorgeous and that you're feeling super festive and you've watched at least five Christmas films, including Elf twice. We will have. I mean, my daughter is obsessed with Elf. We watch it in the summer, in the autumn. we watch it all year round and I'm never bored of it. I love that tingly Christmas feeling. It makes me regress back to being a kid and I love it.

1:05My other favourite Christmas film is A Boy Called Christmas. If you haven't seen that, written by the delectable Matt Haig, who we've had on the podcast twice, you can go back and listen to those. That film makes me cry and cry and cry. And obviously it's got the late Dame Maggie Smith in it who is just gorgeous oh it's so good and I probably should say if you really don't like Christmas and you find it all quite triggering because of everything I've just mentioned the twinkly lights and the cinnamon then you don't have to you know bin it off you don't have to you know don't have to do it um there's so much pressure around this time of year so go gentle on yourselves I would say and if you're a bit of a perfectionist and you want everything to be all perfect for Christmas day again go easy on yourself you know you never know what's going to happen.

1:50Just go easy on yourself. That's what I'm telling myself right now. It doesn't matter if I've forgotten to buy bloody crackers. All right? Doesn't matter. Now, today, I'm chatting to Caroline. She's a multi-award winning CEO and beauty expert. She's the author of the best-selling beauty book of all time, Skincare, the ultimate no-nonsense guide. And she launched her own podcast, Glad We Had This Chat, earlier this year. She's known for her incredibly honest, unfiltered opinions and recommendations and that is what we love here on happy place unfiltered chat some of the things we talk about are the overwhelming amount of info about beauty trends now look this is a bit different for me this episode because i don't normally hone in on one subject especially not necessarily beauty i've never really touched the subject maybe with olivia atwood a little bit but that was more focused on surgery cosmetic surgery botox etc etc.

2:44This is really about sort of skin and beauty inside and out. But it felt different. It felt different. Sometimes I thought, am I getting this chat right? It was really weird for me, but I loved it nonetheless. We also talk about ageing, really important subject. And also what I loved was talking about being ambitious, running a company and then people going, how do you get balance? Which I did actually ask her. And the answer being, you can't. If you want a really big business and success you probably aren't going to get a good life work balance it's probably not going to happen and I loved her honesty around that.

3:24If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change you really only need one good reason but with Zinn nicotine pouches you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand plus Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving.

4:02Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Dr. India Woods here. As a veterinarian, I demand a lot of my scrubs on the job. That's why I show up in FIGS. FIGS are made for the sometimes crazy situations I find myself in. It doesn't matter if I have to squat, sit, bend, or even chase after one of my patients. Figs moves with me and keeps me comfortable in the highest pressure situations.

4:42Figs gives me one less thing to worry about. Get 15 % off your first order by visiting wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. Riley Herbst from 2311 Racing checking in. Got a break in between team meetings? Sounds like the perfect time for some fast-paced fun at Chumba Casino. No waiting, just instant action to keep you going. So next time you need a pick-me-up, fire it up and take a spin. Play now at chumbacasino.com. Let's chumba! No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidware prohibited by law. C.T. and C.'s 21+. Sponsored by Jumba Casino.

5:23As is often the way, Caroline and I were already nattering away before our chats officially started. So, let's get on with it. Here's the show.

5:54We sometimes have the smell of food coming from a sort of restaurant, I think, above us. I don't mind that. We've been formally started, Caroline. Hi. You're right? Hi. You're right? I'm so excited to do this because I love what you do. And I love, do you know what I love? I mean, I love lots about you. I love what you do on social media because you are one of the very few people who is just being you. Yeah. Good or bad, I'd like to apologise now in advance if you haven't witnessed it before. You're just being you. And I think it's a real skill because there's a weirdness when you're being certainly filmed for Instagram or TikTok, whatever, that you're really aware that people are going to watch it and how people are going to digest it.

6:33And you're just you. I think because I've been doing it so long. I was an early starter on Instagram and I was on Twitter before when it used to be good. Yeah. And I think because I've been doing it such a long time and I'm a bit older. I think if I was in my 20s, I'd be way more self-conscious. I mean, my followers have seen me in some states, like waking up in a hotel in California and kicking off because it's only kicking off in a way that you do your English and you just complain about it, don't actually do anything about it because I don't have any teeth and my hair's decrepit and I look like I'm Shrek.

7:04It's just they've seen me in pretty much every situation except naked. No one needs that. Not for me either. I don't want to be doing that for my own channels. We don't want to put people off their dinner. But it's really lovely. And it's so impressive because you've built this gorgeous space, which is a place of education and the truth and really valid information that we need to hear. And you've done it so brilliantly and authentically because there is so it's such an overwhelming topic. skin yeah it's such an overwhelming topic and it feels like you've just distilled everything down to one place but one thing you're not comfortable with is the term influencer no that needs to be put in the bin yeah I didn't like it from the beginning because I could see where it was going to go as soon as as soon as people would because there was a group of us we were bloggers yeah we were bloggers and then there were a few of us who were in that world who are still around like Sam and Nick Chapman who were experts in their field who happened to have a blog or a YouTube channel or something.

8:02And then when the term influencer came around and it was used to just put everyone in one pool, I was like, well, I hope that my sole reason for being on social media isn't to encourage people to buy something. If anything, I tell people not to buy things. I even say it on our packaging. You don't need this if, which no one else does. I love that. You know, you need this if you've got extra, you don't need this if. And so I just saw that it was as soon as you are lumped in with everyone else without anything to distinguish you from everyone else. and as soon as you are, which I do, I do sponsored posts, not as many as you could, obviously.

8:34But I, and I know, I understand I have influence. I do get that. But to me, influencer went negative so quickly and I could see it coming. Because like I say, I'm 55. You know, you're like, I don't know if that's me. I don't stand in front of the, no shade. It's just not me. No. I don't stand in front of the mirror and go, you know, it was in the early days. It was things like, oh guys, I've just moved house. What sofa do you think would go here? because you're obviously begging for a sofa, you know? And I would just be like, buy a sofa, bird. Buy a bloody sofa. So I always just went like that.

9:06But a lot of my friends are influencers. So for me, it was like a, because as well, there are certain aspects where people will use that to take away from your expertise. Well, you are an expert, you know? And that's something that needs to be at the forefront of this conversation is that your history is long and diverse. Thanks for that. I'm not talking about age, babes. It's just so old. You're so old. Likewise with me. Yes. A career that has spanned decades. Yes. And I think it's really cool to look into all the stages of that. So your mum and grandmother were both beauty veterans. They worked in the industry.

9:38They were both in the industry, yeah. And then you started out on a counter at Harvey Nicks. That was the first job? Yeah. And I'd never discussed going into beauty with my mum or my nan ever. Really? No. Why not? I didn't know what I wanted to do. I wanted to have two kids before I was 25. I mean, now it just seems crazy. But I wanted to have two kids before I was 25. I met Jim when I was 19. We did that. And I went, right, now I need to have a career. And there's Taipei and then there's me. That's the joke. You know, it's like, okay, now I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this. And so then I wanted to have two more kids.

10:07And then I wanted to have, I had three and then I wanted a boy. I was like, well, we're going to have to have a fourth kid because we've had a third. We need one for each hand. And he was just like, I think you need to calm down. I was like, no, we're going to have another kid. It's going to be a boy and I'm going to call him Max. And he was like, but what if that's not in my plan? I'm like, well, then we won't have sex. Yeah, exactly. Because that's my plan.

10:27that is down to good luck and for good fortune. I don't say it, you know, sort of off the cuff, but I just, I just wanted to do a job that meant I could do the school run and be at home. And so I went for a weekend job and I was a beauty shopper. So I phoned at the time, my girlfriend, Lorraine, she used to be my Clarins rep. I used to follow her around London when she was on the Clarins counter and she'd moved to Aveda. And I just phoned her and said, is there any sort of part-time weekend jobs going in Harvey Nicks? Because I've done retail before and I'm obsessed with beauty. And she said, actually, we've got a weekend job going here.

11:00It used to be Saturday, Sunday girl. That's what you would call it. That's how long ago it was. And I went to the job, got the job. And on day one, I fell in love and that was it. I was like, I'm never going to do anything else again ever. I want to work in beauty. And there's something really cool about that specific job that you are directly communicating with people. You're probably hearing a lot of their life story more so than you would expect because you're having these really intimate conversations with people to find out what they want, what they need. and it's not just about skin and I'm imagining you'll agree it's something about confidence and empowerment and feeling good in your own skin what would you say you took away from that that particular job that kick-started everything because there is I've said this before when I've spoken to friends if you've been in the service industry I think everyone should have to be in the service industry before they're allowed into the real world because it teaches you everything whether it's retail, hospitality, you know, some kind of service, because the interaction you have with the general public, you can't match that if you've gone straight into an office environment or, you know.

12:00So I loved it wasn't when people really kicked in for me sort of on day two, which sounds like it took you six hours on day two. The other person was supposed to be working with me because on Sundays used to be the quiet day of the week. They're not wasn't the busiest day of the week like it is now. And she phoned in six. I was on my own on the counter. I took as much money as the day before when there was like four or five of us in. But I wasn't, I didn't feel like I was selling. I was just talking to people. From day one, I was like, oh, don't use that. You don't need that. And that's kind of been my way.

12:27I mean, I would be in Space NK as a manager and I would get told off for not selling enough Yves Lom because Space NK used to own Yves Lom. And I'd be like, I don't like it. I sell this instead, you know, and they couldn't get their head around it. And so I just always enjoyed it when people would say, oh, my skin feels really good. It wasn't, I look fantastic. My husband's noticed. It was just, I feel so much better. And that was always the goal. It wasn't, you know, trying to fit into a trend or, you know, follow what everyone else is doing. It was just, how can you make your skin feel the way you want it to feel?

12:58And how do we do that? You know, with not, not with spending fortune, just trying to keep it streamlined into what you actually need. And I think like you've just said, talking to people, actually having that direct communication with people that are feeling not great in their own skin and want the help is is the best time to to learn and to grow your skill set then you went to beauty school after that yeah I I transferred to central London took a demotion went to assistant manager at Harvey Nichols based in K so that I could go to night school to do beauty therapy did that through two pregnancies 300 hours of basic training because I'm that's me I don't go I'll just get the piece of paper and then I'm done I have to go no I want the best school the hardest course yeah idiot while raising two children then three children and then I'm pregnant with the fourth and so when I finally graduated because we all knew I was going to graduate and do well because I was just I just loved doing it yeah it was just when they they found me they went you passed with credits or whatever it is and I was like oh thank you and I was huge I was just about to have max so it was the summer when I did my exam I was like eight months pregnant and it was just trying to wax and I can't even lean over the bed and it was very entertaining but I just thought okay another hour and then you're done and you've got the paper finally you know and if I hadn't have done that I wouldn't have I don't think I'd have the career I'd have because it would just be opinion it wouldn't be actually this is what we've trained in because when you do sort of a heavy duty course like a SIBTAC course or a Sadesco course um City and Guilds it's you get much more about anatomy and physiology and biology and it's not just oh this is how you do a massage you know you start with the basics you start from inside the skull and you work your way out so and I was obsessed with it from from the from the get-go and then you started consulting which again is something that you know you have to have qualifications you have to have knowledge rather than just opinion yeah I I was working for people and I kind of I knew I didn't want to do big corporate it's not me as people who follow me will be able to tell um I just would be a square peg in a round hole and so I I just coincidentally thought well if I consulted and had two clients I would earn more than I would as an employee anyway and then at the same time during literally during like a six week period the crash happened in america the stock crash like 2008 2009 and so space nk were like you know us inside out we've got so many american brands that can't afford to hire anyone here full time would you help a couple of them out and that was it i was off done i would just get clients get a retainer do all the trainings i mean i still get people messaging me now going hi caroline you won't remember me but you trained me in hampton son or david kersh or anthony for men 15 years ago and you sparked my love for beauty and blah blah blah and i just think god i don't even i mean i have to if i look at the year i remember what brand it was that's how i'm like oh yeah no that was sunday riley no that was kate somerville no that was ellen's and so i think it was just um fortuitous that i was in the right place at the right time i mean you know i don't want people to have a stock market crash for me to do well but it but it was not necessary it's quite extreme it's worked out well it's quite extreme A moment ago, you said something and this is how my brain works.

16:01I go off on all these different tangents, but I want to pick up on the word trends, because that, I think, is part of the overwhelm that most people feel today when it comes to skincare. Yeah, there is so much information out there. Yeah, it's fake news and misinformation. And we're trying to navigate it all and work out what is best for us. And again, that's why you've created this sort of educational platform that that we can use. I guess one of the problems is TikTok, especially when we look at the teen market. You know, I've got teenage stepchildren and I've sort of seen that over the years, how, you know, and also my son who's about to turn 12.

16:36All of his friends that are girls in the class are heavily influenced by what's going on on TikTok. And all of a sudden, wanting these certain brands that are insanely expensive and plowing their faces with cream. I guess the most obvious question to ask would be, do teenagers need skincare? Yes, but they don't need that kind of skincare. No. And some might need the absolute basics. If you're talking about a teenager that's going to wear makeup, then yes, you would give them skincare because they need to take it off. And if they're taking it off, they might need a moisturizer. In an ideal world, they'd use SPF.

17:09But the trend for brightly colored, really expensive, no, absolutely not. And it's funny because teenagers have always stolen our stuff. Oh, yeah. I spend my time going, where is it? Thinking that Ava has still stolen something, even though she's 22. Half the time she has. But it used to be makeup. Now they're stealing, and perfume. I used to steal my mum's fragrances. Yeah, I used to steal my mum's anay anay. Yeah, Chanel No. 5, I'd be like, and then I'd spray it and go, now I smell like my mum. Yeah. Which sounds terrible because it's hers, you know? And so they used to steal makeup and fragrance.

17:42But the reason skincare is a problem is because, one, they want it all for themselves. It's more expensive. Some brands marketed themselves directly to that consumer, which was a mistake because their sales are down this year. Like, you know, they're not an invested consumer. They're a trend driven consumer. Why would you put all of your marketing spend there? It's not a customer that's going to stay loyal. And of course, some of the skincare that they're using can do harm to their skin. Yeah. So, you know, you absolutely do not need all of that skincare for your teenager. No. And I guess another obvious question, but because I think most of us are completely confused, is there one set skincare routine for everybody is there a baseline skincare routine that we should all be doing because this is an honest place I'm a very honest person I don't know what mine is mine changes all the time I've not got a fucking clue what I'm doing I'm sort of I'll use what products are lying around I might see something online give it a try I'm not massively committed to any of it and and also I think you know I'm in my mid-40s and I'm are you committed to your foundation though?

18:46I'll change and wear whatever. I'm sort of... It's interesting because by the time you get to your midfoot, most people have committed to either it's hardest to get people off foundation and mascara. Oh, I'm committed to wearing it. Yeah, no, I just like a particular one. No, no, not a particular one. I'll just sort of experiment. I don't know what I'm doing. I feel completely like I'm... It's the Wild West. It's quite common. And also I think the industry has to take responsibility for that too because there is money to be made in marketing confusion. Well, quite. Because people buy more. Yeah.

19:11You know, people buy more and that's what I detest about the industry. And that's why I'm forever being the one going, actually, that's not true. Yeah. And I'm sure it winds up some aspects of the industry. That's not my problem, you know? Not your problem. If you're going to lie to people, I'm going to be the one going, actually, that's not true, you know? So what are we meant to be doing? At the bare minimum, broad question. Wash your face and wear an SPF. Yeah. At the bare minimum. Okay, so the SPF thing is another hot topic because there, again, was sort of misinformation thrown about only because of California.

19:37Recently in America saying, oh, it's bad for your skin. Don't put it on. I mean, I've got sun damage on my face from not wearing it as a teenager. And I don't love that. And I wish I'd known better in the 90s. 80s for me. None of us knew. We were putting oil on. Oh, Hawaiian Tropic number two. Hawaiian Tropic. Lying on oil. Lying on foil. Smelling like a feeling of powder. Foil and oil. That was the way. We all did it. And we're now suffering. But we know better now. But that's one that, again, I've heard you talk about and say, that's bollocks. Wear SPF. Yeah, just wear SPF. It's scientifically proven.

20:07I'm not big on fear mongering, no matter what side of the industry it comes from. If it comes from a marketing team saying you have to wear SPF or you're going to die, relax. If it's coming from California saying you can't wear SPF or you will die, I'm like, can we everyone just chill out? Yeah. SPF is safe. Please use it. Use it. Absolutely. If you've got a family history of skin cancer, you should use it every day. If you're worried about signs of aging, you should use it if you can read a book without artificial light. So if you're outside in the middle of winter and it's quite dark at 4 p.m., you don't need SPF.

20:34Of course you don't. People say, do I need SPF because I go to a shift in a hospital all night? And I'm like, so you're driving in the dark and coming home in the dark and you're in. I'm like, no, no. If you're in a hospital, you're going to be dehydrated. Much more important for you is oil and water. And then they're like, oh, so use SPF. There is no alternative that works in terms of, you know, beef tallow, cookie potatoes in that. I can't. Is that a thing? It's a new thing. Right. If you want to smell like a Sunday roast, you knock yourself out. But I would rather not have signs of aging, not have skin cancer and not smell like a chicken.

21:06What are your thoughts on signs of aging? because this is, again, a topic I'm deeply invested in. When I say signs of aging, I mean like the severe signs you would get if you never used SPF and you lived in the sun. Right, right, right. And you can see that kind of skin from miles away. I embrace getting older. I'm 55. There's no pretending I'm 25. You know, I think it depends on what makes you happy. I think we can be way too judgmental on whether people want to do things to their skin in their face and whether they don't. If someone is perfectly happy, aging the way we all age, they're not interested in any kind of injectable, they use the basic skincare just so their skin feels comfortable, have at it.

21:38If someone else wants to do every injectable and have their lips blown up, that's entirely their choice. I always think as a woman, I can't be pro-choice for a woman. I agree. But then go, but you shouldn't do this. I'm not big on the word shouldn't. What you shouldn't do is sell misinformation. That's kind of where I'm. I agree. I guess it's such a complicated conversation because I'm absolutely on the same page as you. I just think knock yourself out. Whatever makes you feel confident and good in your own skin, do it. I guess there is this sort of separate area, which is the pressure that has always been placed upon women way way more than men and I know men's skincare has probably evolved and there is maybe slightly more pressure in that area but for as long as we can look back there's this obsession about female beauty female aging and and this sort of female being as childlike as humanly possible in every physical way and that pressure does lead to huge hugely low self-esteem, lack of confidence, people feeling there's something wrong with them for simply aging.

22:38Is that pressure, can we be as cynical to say that pressure comes from the Industrial Revolution, people wanting to make money out of women? I don't know how far back it goes, but I know it didn't start with social media. I think it's easy to blame social media. I think as far back as I can remember, it's the Hollywood starlets. You know, no one I knew looked like Rita Hayworth, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe that was the image there was four of them in the world then it was magazines and then magazines became general media page three all of that nonsense then it became blogs social media and then it became blogs have now been taken over by social media in general and so it's the pressure that's always been there I think if anything we've kind of disregarded that it has put more pressure on young boys because if you look at TikTok or Instagram it's full of men at the gym full of men at the gym showing their pecs and I just think it's not great for their psychological well-being either So I don't think it's, I don't know where it started, but it's always been there.

23:33It's just a bit more amplified now. I like to use social media for good in that calling out things that, and I'm the first, you know, I, it's a miracle. I've still got a career really, because when I, when the blog was at its peak and I was getting all the views and stuff, I was raging perimenopausal. I mean, I was delulu. And so I would rant and shout and kick off and, and then I'd have to be like, oh, that's my bad. I'm a dick. you know and now I'm actually kind of well now I'm a bit like oh I don't care use beef fat on your face I don't get involved I'm just like knock yourself out enjoy melanoma well quite and there's no point wasting energy fighting that fight no I use my energy for all the good stuff now and I'd rather just be like you know I've got pigmentation and sun damage here I'm gonna get it laser tomorrow and I'll show all that on camera and be like this is what it might look like it's gonna go blacker and then drop off I've got a massive bit here and I'm I mean luckily I wear my hair down but I hate it I couldn't give a shit about getting older things dropping as they naturally do lines whatever yeah but the sun damage I hate it's usually pigmentation that people hate the most because that's what you see and you think that shouldn't be there because I think as we age slowly and the lines come on slowly you get used to them you know if you haven't seen someone for ages and they look much older or really well you're like oh you look really well or god they didn't look good in your head hopefully you don't say that no no no but we see ourselves every day so we're used to aging but when you get the pigmentation like well that's new because you're used to kind of the fine lines coming up and when you smile you have laughter lines i don't want all that to disappear if i can't be like i can't tell the kids off you know so i don't want to be like a surprise tambourine you know with the it's not attractive yeah and you can do that one too it's all very attractive and certain people will have come to mind now with that picture but i'm gonna say a word and that's up to you if you want to do that knock yourself out but I I like do whatever you want to do I just I on my very first YouTube video I was a guest of Sam and Nick Chapman and I said and it just came out my mouth I said I think I have no problem with looking my age I think aging is a privilege that not everyone gets and that's stuck and I said it and I thought that sounded well done Hirons that was a good one yeah because it just came out and I still stick to it you know I'm lucky to be here I'm 55 I've got four kids two grandkids husband why would I complain about having whatever it is lines I mean yeah if you can do something about it you want to do but don't stress no no no no no no because i think people become it's the obsession but i think when you don't like something about yourself yeah and you become completely laser point focused on that thing it can ruin your day it can ruin a week it can ruin your life if you look in the mirror let's say if you look in the mirror and for years the one thing you've always hated is your nose and all you see when you look in the mirror is i hate my nose and you can get a nose job then do it if it because i know people people have had nose jobs People have had their boobs reduced, boobs, whatever.

26:21It's changed their life. They feel psychologically and fundamentally, they feel better about themselves. Knock yourselves out. I think obviously there are people with body dysmorphia and that's a whole different thing. But it's important to remember that's a very small percentage. Most average, normal people embrace what they do. They want their skin to look good. They want their makeup to look good. But I think most of us just want people to go, you look well. Not, I like your makeup. Or it's usually, I just want people to go, you look well. yeah you know or I saw Fern the other day she looks great like that's all you need you don't need well I saw Fern and her lines are gone and she looks incredible like it's just who's looking at you in that much detail you know no one is because no one except for you in the mirror yeah exactly and I guess there's also there's got to be room for learning to love yourself as you are like I again think if you want to have plastic surgery fillers whatever and it makes you feel better great but I do think there's sort of this other gray area where like I didn't used to particularly like my nose because it's quite characterful but now I love my nose it's my dad's nose it's literally Mick Cotton's nose has been plonked on my face and I love my dad dearly and it's I love my nose I'm and I've grown to I've got to that place through age and experience where I'm pretty happy in my skin I don't obsess about my nose like I used to I don't think about my fucking nose yeah ever yeah I think we've got to give ourselves the time and space to find that self-compassion and that inner love rather than always expecting that the outside bit's going to change the inside bit yeah exactly and that some of that unfortunately only comes with age you know if you were surrounded by different people and you had the opportunity and you were 18 19 and someone was constantly saying to you can have a nose job maybe you would have done it yeah and that would be a shame it would have been awful you know you wouldn't have had mixed notes i love this hooter absolutely i love it it's a character for it's a big old hooter The market's uncertain.

28:12Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about.

28:51Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Did you know 39 % of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94 % know it's dangerous, but do it anyway.

29:25As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding, and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teens safe. Sign up for Greenlight Infinity at greenlight.com slash podcast. Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick. You know what's more nerve-wracking than waiting for qualifying results? Waiting for the green flag to drop. Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases.

29:57It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain. Play for free at ChumbaCasino.com. Let's Chumba! No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidware prohibited by law. CT &C's 21 Plus, sponsored by Chumba Casino.

30:15So I want to go back to, again, getting some really clear facts for my lovely listeners, because we've got majority of listeners are females probably around my age yeah who will be noticing signs of aging or with hormone changes noticing changes within their skin are there i don't know three or five absolute must absolute tips that you would say to really commit to to have that healthy feeling and looking skin yes if you're so you're saying what early 40s i reckon I mean, we've got a lovely pocket of people from all ages, but there will be a lot of women my age. Yeah, my demographic is similar.

30:52So if you're heading towards the stage of perimenopause, which you will be at that age. I'm in it. Yeah, then your estrogen will be depleting. That's just normal. That happens because not everyone has a kid. But if you have ovaries and you've had a menstrual cycle, everyone will go through menopause. Yeah. You know, so it might be the first time you've ever had a hormonal shift in your body if you haven't had kids. That's a big change for women, you know. but what will happen is your skin will slow down so it won't look as fresh you might find you wake up and you look a bit more tired than you used to do you might find you look a bit more sallow so we go a bit yellower as we get older which is where you get what I call blush blindness so if you see older women with a load of blush on and I'm totally guilty I do it I do it I'm thinking of my late nams yes oh like because you do you look in the mirror and you start to look all this color yeah you just wake up and you look all this color and so the main thing is just like Oh, just giving me a bit blush.

31:43Because, you know, most women who are over a certain age, if you give them one blush or a lip, they can make that thing work on their whole face. Yeah. Blush, lip, eyelid, done. Let's go. You need to put the colour back in. And that's cosmetic. That's makeup. In terms of your actual skin texture, you could do with doing some acid, you know, a gentle acid. You don't have to go crazy. You don't need some super strong glycolic that's going to make your face fall off. Just to help you resurface. Because when it slows down, it's a bit like your car engine has just got a bit, needs a bit of oil and a bit of petrol.

32:11It's just taking a slower route. Yeah. The skin is slower to heal. So if you if you kind of get a spot or you pick a spot because you'll still get them, especially if you're perimenopausal, you might then find that you get pigmentation, which is exactly what happened to me here. And if you pick it, it doesn't just immediately like, you know, if you pick a spot and you're a teenager, it's gone the next day and you're just like, oh, it was a bit red. When you're older, your skin takes longer to heal. And so it's things that help just help support it along the way. and so it'd be acids retinoids vitamin c you can kind of use that as a holy trinity and go from there as long as you've got a cleanser to wash your face moisturizer and if you want to be completely bare minimum i don't call it lazy because some people just don't want to bother they just want the bare minimum you can buy an spf that has a moisturizer sort of almost a moisturizer with an spf built in but i'd be more inclined to buy an spf that is moisturizing oh right like a higher spf because most in the old days like in my space in k days of 20 years ago that we were talking about earlier you would buy a moisturizer that had spf 15 pointless just false economy false sense of security because you're not going to use it everywhere on your face you're not going to put on top of your ears if you've got a ponytail on in the middle of summer 15 is not high enough so buy an spf 50 that's moisturizing because the technology we have in the eu which we are still a part of as far as cosmetics go is far beyond where we were 20 years ago and far beyond the usa so spfs are beautiful and you can use it as a moisturizer and then you've got your moisturizer and spf and one and you're done if you want to treat things because remember you're treating the texture of the skin if you want to change the structure of your skin that is where you go and see someone who can do an injectable that's the structure of your skin so if you think about the scaffolding outside the building that will start to dismantle as we get older and it just does you know the jokes about everything heading south if you breastfed four kids and you take your bra off you're very aware of that you know i'm there two of them exactly It's still there.

33:59It only takes one. It takes one. Just takes one and you're like, well, where did they go? Troopy little doggies. There's none of this. You know, you see women putting a bra on and they move and they put it on front to back. I'm like, who are you? Fuck that. Who does that? No, we're scooping them off the ground. You turn it round, you put it in, you scoop them up. Yeah, scooping them in. No, I can't relate. No, no. So if you're at that point, then you might find you want some structure in your skin too. And if you want structure in your skin, you need to go and see someone for an injectable. And we don't have to be afraid of it.

34:26But Botox and filler are not a big deal in the world of injectables. And I'm not talking facelifts and threads and anything that's super invasive. I mean, you know, a Botox needle is like this big and it's tiny. You don't feel it. You know, I've never had any of it. I'm sort of scared about the whole thing. I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying you need it. It's a slippery slope of... I don't think it's a slippery slope for most people. I really don't. I think you, it's the worry of, will this lead to something? If you know yourself, that's not going to lead to something. You know, are you obsessive about your hair?

34:56or you're obsessive about your diet or you're obsessive about the gym. And if you're not, if you're generally just, yeah, I'll do my best and then I'm going to chill and watch telly. You're going to be the same with your skin. Ah, not too shabby. That's what I aim for. Yeah. Not too shabby higher end, you've looked worse. That's what I go for. If someone says you look really well, I'm like, wow, what did I do today? Wow. I'm going to do that tomorrow. You know, I could go and get threads where they kind of stitch here and it pulls it all back. That just terrifies me. I don't want to be, I don't want big needles.

35:24I'm just, I would never have a facelift. People say never say never. I'm like, no, I'm telling you I would never have a facelift. No, no, no, no. That's just me. If you want to, I see people who've had brilliant facelifts. I don't know if you noticed because in the celeb world, a lot of people looked a lot fresher after COVID. Oh, didn't they just? Hollywood was busy. Because they could hide away at home. Hollywood was so buzzing. Hollywood was busy because you could still have medical. You could travel for medical. So there were private planes going to Hollywood and there were a lot of facelifts going on.

35:48Yeah. People who looked really relaxed after COVID was just like a... Yeah, not many of us, but those ones. Yeah. Super relaxed. Yeah, super relaxed. I was like, can someone please pick up my neck? Big fat Greek wedding. Can we just do a bit of that, please? Now smile, Liz, good. I'll have a bit of that, please. Thank you. So if you want to change the structure of your skin, like you'll tend to be, this is the jowly bit. So what happens is the aging triangle is like this. So your kids, especially your daughter and my daughter, her smile is like this. When they smile, it's all lifted. The cheeks come out.

36:21Yeah, heaven. As you get older, it droops a bit. So when you smile, you're more noticed that the triangle is upside down. That's the aging triangle. And that is just mother nature. Yeah. You can prolong, you know, you can sort of move that over and it doesn't have to happen as quickly. That is either a bit of Botox or a bit of filler and Botox, whatever you want to do. And it's not the permanent filler of the old days where people would have duck lips and, you know, it's dissolvable and there's no need to panic. I sound like I'm endorsing it. I'm just trying to give the information. Yeah, of course.

36:49If you are worried about the texture of your skin or the color of your skin, that you can do with skincare. Yeah. And that you don't need to go and see a really expensive doctor for. You know, that you can do with over the counter. You can go into, you can go online, you can go into a store. And that is where you can change sort of the texture would be acids and retinoids. And then the glow would be vitamin C's, acids, vitamin C's, that kind of thing. And oils like facial oils on a woman over 40. I can take someone from looking like they've just been dug up to have a glow within five minutes. It's easy.

37:24With oil? Yeah. Quick cleanse, quick acid, oil, moisturiser. Look in the mirror, they're like, no. Moisturiser on top of oil? Yeah. Really? I've never done that. Yeah, no one does that. And it's a sandwich. It's perfect. Really? It's like a sandwich. Are you wearing that in the day? Or is that before bed? Yeah. If you're going to wear oil in the day, you have to put it under your moisturiser because it can interfere with your makeup and your SPF. Right. So SPF is like, yeah, it can interfere with your SPF, but God forbid it interferes with foundation. No, Christ no. That needs to be perfect. I'm only talking like with our oil, it's one pump.

37:54It's a tiny amount in your hands, over and then don't forget, it's the same with makeup application. The first place you put your hands on your skin is where you're going to deposit the most product. So with oil, you want it to go cheek. Don't do this. You're already oily here, here and here. T-zone for a reason. You want it cheeks, especially if you're a certain age. If you can highlight and lift this area of your face as a woman, I'm going to say over 40 just to be safe over 40 and it does not matter I see women all the time there's people I know I nearly said their name then they'll be like what are you doing?

38:26There are people I know just outing them outing them who say well I've still got all my periods I'm like but you're in your 50s I'm telling you your estrogen it doesn't matter go and get yourself sorted get HRT life changing putting that estrogen back in your body makes everything go oh oh we're a bit bouncy again oh we don't look dead well I guess this is also So the other side of the conversation is there's the topical element, which we're talking about here, which is what we can actually do and apply to our skin to give ourselves a better chance of looking healthy and glowy. But that's the topical element.

38:56But what about the inside out job? How much do stress and diet impact our skin? The big ones are smoking, alcohol. Alcohol is a killer for your skin, your health, your mood, especially if you are perimenopausal. Yeah, I had Tina Groney's last night. I don't even mess about it. I'm like, I can't, if I'm going to have it, I need to write off my sleep and the next day. And it's not worth it. And you can see it on your face. You just look, you look like, oh, you could be on holiday for a week, go on a bender the last night of your holiday and wake up looking like shit. Yeah. You know, it's not worth it for me.

39:28So, and also since my mum died, if I drink alcohol, it's a depressive for me. Yeah. I think you have to know yourself and what drinks work. Yeah. I was used to be the happy drunk who'd like, you know, like, woo, have too many drinks. And then I fall over and I'm loving everyone and I'm happy. And then I throw up and I go home like everyone else. I haven't done that in a long time. I can't do that. No, no, no. You have to know yourself. Alcohol's not great. Smoking is terrible. Like why would you, and vaping is just as bad. Yeah. Don't kid yourselves. You know, if your kid is vaping, pull it out of their hand.

39:56This is not the time to do gentle parenting and use your indoor voices. Get that vape out of their hand. Yeah. Vaping, smoking, alcohol, and then diet wise. Honestly, it really, if you're eating tons and tons and tons of sugar, you're going to feel like crap. Yeah. ultimately your skin is going to come down to your genetics the stuff you're doing to abuse it like are you taking care of it and by that I don't mean a 57 step routine I just mean do you sleep in your makeup regularly do you not really use skincare for your skin type are you someone who thinks it's all a load of bollocks but actually if you look at your face you've got a face like a leather handbag so when people say it to me I have no judgment I've got a really good sales face I'm just like oh I'm so glad that you feel that way about your skin it's good that you're self-confident because your face looks like a crocodile.

40:39But I don't say that. No, it's just the internal monologue. In the old days in Liverpool, my mum's friend on the counter in Liverpool said, I don't know who she thinks she is. The lions are queuing up on her neck to get on her face. It's like this. And I'm like, oh, I can't say that in 2024. You can't. But it's always in my head. I always have the voice in my head laughing like, look, self-confidence is fantastic. You do you. Yeah, you do you. You do you. What are the absolute no-nos? Because again, I think there's misinformation in terms of what we should and shouldn't be doing. So we're saying wearing makeup at night time is not a great idea.

41:12Yeah, don't sleep in your makeup. Wash your face. Wash your face. If you're going to brush your teeth, wash your face. If you're not going to brush your teeth, what's wrong with you? And then I heard you say something the other day about don't use, don't clean your face in the shower because the water's too hot. I never clean my face in the shower. My face doesn't go under the shower. So why do we not do that? Because most of us have the water too hot for our face. And if the water is too hot, because your body can take it, but your face can't, you'll get broken capillaries. You'll get the red flush.

41:36If you come out of the shower and your cheeks are red and flush, you need to turn the heat down. That's not the goal. I love a hot shower. Okay, what a bummer. Don't put your face in it. I'm changing that. Okay. I said in the early days, and I still say, you have to stand as if the shower has greatly offended you. Like a movie and you wash your hair from behind. Like an old Timote ad. Oh, okay. I'm going to do that. Yeah, just do it from behind. Okay. Okay. See, I didn't know that. That's all new to me. Only because most, if you have a tepid shower, knock yourself out. I do not. I have a boiling, scolding shower.

41:58Most people have a hot shower. and it's too hot for your face. It's too hot. I really want to also quiz you about... Can't feel the pressure. Sweating. No, there's no pressure. It's all questions about you and you know the answers. I can't really. But it's so impressive how, you know, when we go back to what we've just talked about, starting on the counter at Harvey Nicks to where you are now and having your own brand and this beautiful business that is thriving and growing at such a rate, how do you find that? I mean, there aren't enough female founders. We know that for a start. they're still hugely uninvested in.

42:31And there is a lot of pressure for women to almost sort of, I don't believe that we should, but prove ourselves that we can run businesses. I'm trying to do exactly the same with Happy Place. But if we're honest, the pressure is immense because I'm imagining like me, you're pretty ambitious. I'm very open about that. I'm really ambitious. I've got lots of things I'd like to do, lots of goals. I want to grow and expand and challenge myself in really healthy ways. But I don't want to feel depleted and stressed out and not be able to be present in my family home, have time with my friends, have fun.

43:05There is still that toxic sort of trope that women can have it all, which I don't believe. No one can have it all. I always say women have it all to do. Yeah. We have it all to do. And we take on more and more. And it's only recent I've been like, I'm not doing that. No, I'm not doing that. Turning 50 is big. And turning 55 is mega. Like I've never been happier in my own skin. I literally can't wait. I know I've never been happy on my own skin you know the Helen Mirren thing of when she turned 17 people said do you have any regrets she went yes I wish I'd told many more people to fuck off I took that to heart and I'm like got it and I've done that ever since done so that's about setting really clear boundaries saying what you're not going to do not people pleasing anymore and then like also not rescuing people like my husband my kids and mum no I can't you can do it no you're 30 you do it no you're 20 you do it mum do you know where this is yes I do and you also know where it is because I've told you goodbye yeah like no because they're never going to learn.

43:59My husband, you know, love, do you know where? Yes, I do. And so do you. Bye. Because when you're younger, you're like, oh, I'll just do it. It's quicker. I don't do that anymore. It might be quicker for them. And does that cross over into how you run your business? Yes. Are you very clear with how it's running and who's doing what? Yeah, yeah. No, we've got a full team. So, you know, there's 45 of us and it's mega. It's a big operation. But I've got Al, who's my MD. She's like my right hand, my left hand. And we're both very, nope, not doing that. It's just very, it's very easy to say no. the older you get the easier it is to say no I remember I went to see Abba Voyage again this year and Benny and Bjorn were there and I watched a TV interview just after and they said it's a shame the girls aren't here and they said when you are 76 it's very easy to say no to everything and I was like I get it of course just send the hologram in base they don't like Anietta doesn't want to be famous and Anna Freed doesn't like to travel why would you you're Abba you don't need to you don't need to we're going to go anyway love yes correct we need Abba energy that's what we need we're coming anyway whether you're there or not you stay in Stockholm and relax babe You burned it.

44:56Too right. And so, you know, we say no. But when I say yes to things, it has to be the intention of what am I getting out of it? What are they getting out of it? Is my position being respected? Am I being exploited? Is anyone else being exploited? No, we're good. It's kind of everything becomes much simpler as you get older, I think. I think so. I wouldn't be 25 again if you paid me. No, same. What about the pressure you put yourself under? That's a different story. You want to grow the business and you want it to be. It's not even it's not even now that I want to grow the business. Now I feel like I've got 45 other people and other mouths to feed.

45:28And so I have to grow the business. So now I've taken on the responsibility of my employees are like family and I never do anything that could put their positions in jeopardy. Which is a big lot of pressure on your shoulders. I've got big shoulders. It's fine. Yeah. Well, I'd rather do that than work in corporate any day. What about the other side of it? Relaxing, having balance. Are you good at that? I think if you want balance, you shouldn't have your own business. personally. If you, if you, if you have, if you're, if you're, especially if you're a woman and you've got kids and a husband and you've got your own business, your life is not going to be balanced.

46:02The more you accept it, the easier it's going to be for you. Cause all you're going to do is give yourself stress and worry and anxiety. I mean, I've never, I never heard the A word until the last like five, six, seven years anxiety. I was just like, what's everyone stressed about? Like chill. You know, I just don't, I'm a gen X and people joke and there's memes on Tik TOK all the time, but they're true. You know, Our mums didn't know where we were. We didn't have a phone. It was being when it comes dark. And if it went dark and you weren't home, woe betide you if someone else's mum had to call you.

46:31Your mum's looking for you. Oh, shit. Yeah. 80s parenting was so good. 80s parenting. Was it parenting? No. Just a bit of survival. You know, there's that thing where it's like, did you really have to drink out the hose? Why don't you use the tap? Because we weren't allowed in the house. That's true. You'd go home and go, what are you doing in? Get out. Get out. Just do something with your time. So we didn't really, I think the modern world has put a lot of more pressure on young people that I don't think needs to be there. And I think that causes a lot of anxiety that we just didn't have because no one would have given a shit if we did have it anyway.

47:01No, I agree. But I think it's also so refreshing to say if you want to run your own business and you want it to be really fucking successful. You're going to be tired. You're going to be tired. You're not going to, I mean, I'm living and breathing it. And I also weirdly don't have a problem with it. I don't actually like relaxing. No. Going on a spa trip is my idea of hell. Boring. So boring. We went away to Italy and I said to Jim, this is the last time I'm doing this. I can't do it. He's sitting by the pool. He's like a dolphin. He's loving it. He's in the pool. He's chatting. He's like a dolphin.

47:30He's in and out the water. I'm like, Jesus Christ, you've never had this much energy at home. I'm like, all right, pipe down. So he's on the bed next to you. Oh, another beer. And they're all talking to him because they're sexist pigs. You know, it's just like the Italians in Sicily, especially, they talk to the man. If I went to the pool earlier, they wouldn't even feed me unless Jim turned up. And I'd have to be like, hello, I'm paying the bill. it's booked in my name but you talk to him whole thing so I'm raging I'm like I'm not coming here again I'm too hot I'm not gonna I don't want to suntan I'm not 18 anymore you're getting on my nerves because you've got loads of energy and when we get home you sit your ass on the sofa like it was a whole thing and he was like but it's beautiful look where you're on I can see it's beautiful but I'm bored so on day one we arrive on like the Saturday on the Monday morning I'm texting the office he's like you're working I'm like yep I'm relaxing I'm happy leave me alone he's like whatever but if it makes you happy I'm a worker bee I love brainstorming in my free time.

48:16I'll create a project out of thin air if I feel like I'm not doing enough. That's just how I am. And I think it's really difficult when that messaging is sort of shoved down our throat that we've got to find this balance and we've got to have time out. I think that's the pressure. I agree. Other people telling me I need to relax stresses me out. Yeah. I'm fine. Fuck off. Mind your own business. I'm fine. Do I look stressed? That's because I am, but I quite thrive off it. I've got ADHD. This is my natural state. Exactly. When I've had caffeine is when you need to worry. Just got you do you. Like if you need to do a fucking sound bath and yoga, you do you.

48:50I did yoga years ago and it was really good for my back. I wish I could get back into it at the moment. I still do it. And Rocky's going to be watching this because I did a yoga retreat last year. I was bored out of my mind and I love her dearly. And she knows. She's like, are you going to come back? I'm like, no. And it was also vegan. I wanted to kill myself. It was horrendous. I mean, I do love a bit of yoga. You would have loved it. But I've never done a retreat. And do you know why? There's a bit, there's something in me that is absolutely terrified of the thought of having three days where I'm not under that pressure.

49:18I'm not working. And I'm just doing a yoga. Yeah, I don't know. I did well. I don't know if I could do it. For what it was, it was wonderful. And my mum hadn't long died. We'd only just had the funeral and I needed it. It was good. And I went with Ava and Ava's a complete, Ava does headstands and all the shit, the split, all of it. I can't. Now I'm like, it's really impressive that I gave birth to you. I'm just going to leave it there. Yeah. You know, the split. She's like, mum, you can. I'm like, no, it's not going to happen. But I'm bendy. I'll just leave it at bending. Yeah, bending. I don't need to do the split head.

49:47No, you know. But if that is what relaxes you, go with God. Yeah. I relax by making a brew, putting SVU on, lying on the sofa. If I'm horizontal and my telly's on and I've got my phone in my hand, I'm as chilled as it gets. Yeah. I might still be working, but my brain is entertained by the TV. Yellowstone, I don't have the phone in my hand. I'm like this. That's your jam. I'm literally. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so stressed. Maybe I should check the phone. Oh. Oh, so telly, I'm chill. Yeah. That's all I need. People are like, oh, you must read a good book. I'm like, no, I can't.

50:18I have a pile of books that I still buy and I cannot sit and read. Ruth Crilly, my girlfriend, wrote How Not to Be a Supermodel. I read the bits I wanted to read that I was interested in because I was going to interview her for the pod. And I was like, she went, you haven't read it, have you? I went, no, I haven't read the whole thing. I'm not going to. No, I'm not. I went, I know all your stories. I read the ones I didn't know. And I read about how you met Rich because that cheered me up. And I know him and it was very entertaining. and she's just like, I don't get you. I'm like, because she just reads book after book.

50:41Yeah, I'm a book. I'm a bookie book. I absolutely, that for me is completely escapism. But you've got to find your thing. Some people go to movies. I like to go to the pictures. Last time I think I went, it was James Bond or Barbie. I hate the cinema. I'll go to the cinema if it's like James Bond, Barbie. I'll probably go and see Wicked. But three hours without the kettle and a toilet break is a push. No, I haven't been to the cinema. I couldn't tell you last. I could not tell you the last time. But people go every day. I mean, one of my guys in work took a week off work to do the London Film Festival.

51:07We did 28 films in a week. And I'm like, are you okay? My ass would be numb. I couldn't do it. I think you've got to find your own flow. Like my mum says to me constantly, oh, you're working too hard. I know she's just being very lovely and lovely. I'm not slagging old Lynn off. We love Lynn. My mum would say that. But she's constantly like, oh, you're doing too much. It's like, I am so much happier. Do I look like I'm not happy? Engaged and busy and thriving and doing things that I love. And I think now at my age, it's the best thing for your kids to see you doing. Yeah, I agree. It's absolutely the best thing for your kids to see.

51:33I have two worlds. I have my family, which is always number one. Kids, grandkids, different level. Babies, we're all obsessed. Family, right? And then I have what I do with my life. It's not work. It's what I do. And that is the difference. I don't feel like I have a job. It's what I'm doing with my life. And I love it. And I would not change a thing. I'll take all the stress. I'll take the sleepless nights, which I don't really get many sleepless nights. If I think, oh, this is going to keep me up, I'll pop a pill. I don't care. Get me to sleep so I can get up in the morning and function again.

52:04and that's it so when people are like you know what's your work life balance I'm like oh I don't have one yeah like literally yeah I will I mean I went to Glastonbury for the first time last year I fucking hated it with every part of my body I hated and I was in the VIP bit I bought a VIP ticket thank you for my lovely friend who I won't name drop we went but my two boys best time of their lives and I was like there is a reason that you love it Jim in the middle of the Foo Fighters Jim's standing here and he went, I'm going to the bar, I'll meet you back there. He couldn't give a shit. He's gone.

52:37We went, we didn't go back to see anyone else. We went for one day, saw the foos and then fucked off home. Left the boys there. Left them there. I haven't been for a very long time. I find it too overwhelming now. With my ADHD, now I get why. Now I get why. But I tried it. You've done it. You've ticked it off the list. Love it. They go over a year. I'm like, how do you sleep in a camper van for a week? Absolutely not. What do you do for a shower? And they're like, oh no, no, you've got a shower. And I'm like, yeah, but you still have to share it with other people. No. And that's just my thing.

53:05But I love that, that I would never, and I love that they love it. Yeah. I'm so happy for you that you love it. You do you, and I'll do me over here. I will be in Claridge's. I'll be in Claridge's. In a suite. Doing some emails. Faves. Maybe in the foyer. Maybe in the foyer. Nice little brew, you know. I'm good. You're good. I mean, I'm just joking. I don't actually live in Claridge's. Just putting that out there. Would you say, actually, this is my last question, that that would be your happy place? I was literally going to say, I think Claridge's is one of my happy places. I feel like nothing bad can happen in Claridge's.

53:34Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I do. I do. Like the minute you walk in, and it's not like I've spent a lot of time there, but, you know, a lot of press things happen there, and you walk in and you're like, oh, this is nice. But no, my happy place is on the sofa in front of the TV, the odd kid running around, you know, a baby. The big ones can get out of the way and make a brew. Because the good thing is, you know, your teenagers eventually become grown-ups. They give you grandchildren and they can make tea. Love. Happy place, happy days. So my happy place is at home on the sofa. It's a perfect one.

54:02Or pottering around the kitchen. But generally, if I'm in my corner, I've got an L shape. If I'm in the corner, my butt is sat down and I've got a brew in my hand, you're probably not going to make me happier. It's the best. I love being on the sofa watching telly. I know, just watching TV. I love it. Nice early night, nothing fancy planned. I can't be doing with the nightclubs. And I just got back from a press trip to Vegas to see Adele. Oh, I saw. Did you see me in the nightclub? Because it's not for me, Fern. I can't do it. It's not. I can't do it. It's not. And all the other younger, much younger, who I could have given birth to all of them, all the other younger influencers were like, no, we're going to go to bed or we're going to the casino.

54:37I'm like, well, they clearly made the right choice. I was raging. I was like, why am I here on my own? Where is everyone? I thought I had to be here. No, no. I went to bed. The word I'm for giving it a try. I mean, I walked in and went, fuck this. Basically, they stamped my hand. I'm like, what is it, 1983? What is happening? Nothing's changed. I was like trying to scrub it. Why can't I get this off? It's like my mum's going to find out I've been to a club. No, it's not for me. but again there were people in there that were loving it I didn't get it but I love that you love it we're all different find something that you love find your thing go for it and go forth and go forth well I've loved talking to you thank you for having me and I love love what you're doing and I think it's so impressive with your whole business model and what you're putting out on socials it's just brilliant well thank you very much thank you for having me what an honour thank you for being on oh thanks Caroline never will I wash my face in the shower again that is a new one for me I'm having to like learn to tip my head back and not get it underwater I used to love putting my face in hot water but the capillaries didn't my old broken capillaries they weren't such a fan so I'm changing my ways everyone thanks Caroline you're the best now next week I'll be back with a really jolly one we're gonna have a great time so make sure you're following the podcast wherever you're listening to this right now so you can definitely catch up then.

55:56And of course, as ever, I love having a natter with you on Instagram during the week. We're at Happy Place Official. Until next time, you beautiful people, a huge thanks to Caroline, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, you're completely gorgeous.

56:39Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

57:10Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Dr. India Woods here. As a veterinarian, I demand a lot of my scrubs on the job. That's why I show up in figs. Figs are made for the sometimes crazy situations I find myself in. It doesn't matter if I have to squat, sit, bend, or even chase after one of my patients. Figs moves with me and keeps me comfortable in the highest pressure situations. Figs gives me one less thing to worry about. Get 15 % off your first order by visiting wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. Did you know 39 % of teen drivers admit to texting while driving?

57:46Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94 % know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding, and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teens safe. Sign up for Greenlight Infinity at greenlight.com slash podcast. Summer's heating up and so is the action with Chumba Casino and 2311 Racing.

58:19Whether you're trackside with Bubba, Riley, and Tyler or cooling off at home, the fun never stops at Chumba Casino, the online social casino packed with free-to-play games like slots, blackjack, and more. Jump into summer at chumbacasino.com and score your free welcome bonus. Two million free gold coins and two free sweeps coins. No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidware prohibited by law. C.T. & C.'s 21 Plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. Thank you.