Greg James: Stop sleepwalking through life! Find your childlike self-belief

0:00Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that helps you let go and take life less seriously. Today, I'm chatting to Greg James. You want to get married? Society sort of says, you must get married. And then it says, you must have children. You must do this. You must do a job. You must do a serious job. And it's sort of looking at all those things and going, are you absolutely sure that you're doing all the things that you want to do? And at the same time, reminding yourself of all the childhood passions that you had that make you, you. because I do sort of think that you at 10 is sort of the most pure you you can be.

0:40Well everyone I'm fulfilling the back to school at this time of year cliche by feeling like shit. Of course my kids have come home with like every germ known to man and I feel like I'm swallowing a golf ball when I talk. I actually felt quite poorly when I was recording this episode with Greg but luckily I know Greg well enough to have been able to feel comfortable and capable of hosting a podcast episode whilst feeling like shit. I'm really not very good at feeling bad. And it's always that moment when you have to learn some like good life lessons when you feel ill, don't you? Because if you're like me, and you can't sit still for a minute, and you need to be constantly doing on the run and distracted when you're ill.

1:22Oh my god, it's all really confronting, isn't it? You have to like think about things you don't want to. I don't like it. I'm gonna have a tantrum. So today I'm working from home. I'm going to be laptop in bed vibes. Just feeling shitty. But I know loads of you are too. There's all sorts of bugs going around. So if that is you, I'm with you. I hear you. I've got you. This is actually the perfect chat to listen to if you are feeling a bit crappy because it's just a really lovely conversation, which hopefully you can hear is between two great mates. I've known Greg for 17 years. And do you know what?

2:00I went away from this chat thinking, oh, fuck, I could have asked him this or forgot to reminisce about that. We didn't really do too much reminiscing. And we've had so many silly things happen, silly stories, really fun nights out, like being shit faced at gigs and him coming to house parties at my house and just loads of silly nonsense. And then obviously all the crazy fun that we had at Radio One. I'm going to think of some more stories and talk about them on Instagram because it was just a crazy time. I think you're going to really like this chat. Greg is, of course, the voice waking up so many of us in the mornings on the Radio One Breakfast Show.

2:35He also co-created the Tailenders Cricket Podcast and the Fast and the Curious F1 Podcast. And he's just written his first nonfiction book, All the Best for the Future. And look, we talk about that book a lot because it's full of stuff about childhood and how when we're adults, we want to be taken really seriously. But when you're kids, you really don't. And actually, we need to get some of that playfulness back in life. When we look at what he enjoyed doing as a kid and how he's trying to emulate that now, we also talk about not sleepwalking through life, just sort of ticking things off the list of like, must get married, must have kids, must do a job that I don't want to do um that's a really interesting part of the conversation for sure and also like talking about being an adult and that sometimes it's really shit but that is part of being a human and just sort of accepting that and also a really big one separating self-worth from achieving big goals i like talking about that oh and barney the dog obviously a lot of supplement brands chase trends But if you're serious about your health, we know research-backed science is what actually moves the needle.

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6:09Right, let's crack on. Here's the show.

6:33Should we just do this but actually record it? That's really I'm so excited We do There's no formal way to start this We'll just begin talking I normally start all interviews with a prayer Do you want to do a prayer? No Not really I don't believe in God I feel like it would be It would be Okay let's do a prayer An atheist prayer I want to pray for all podcasters everywhere. We are a dying breed.

7:07Welcome to Happy Place. Thank you Greg. I'm so excited to be here. It's your publication day today. So first of all, massive congratulations. It feels a bit like a birthday and a wedding and all the things in one day, doesn't it? Yeah, we had a little friends and family gathering last night and it felt too overwhelming and I started panicking. Did you? Yeah. Is that your usual reaction to joy? Panic? No, it was just too, it was actually too much. Just a lot. I actually felt a bit embarrassed. Did you? Yeah, it was just too much. It was because it felt a bit, well, I don't know. I felt, it felt indulgent, but it wasn't indulgent.

7:46No. But naturally I was like, oh, thanks for coming. You yuck. Awkward. You all came here. Very British of you. Yeah, but it was really nice and I feel so, I just feel elated, honestly. I feel elated and liberated that this thing that I made the thing I wanted to make. And that's such a, it's so, it's, you're so lucky if you do a creative job or any job really, but a job where you're making stuff and you get to make the thing you wanted to like exactly. And I look at that thing and I think, God, that's, that's, that's exactly what I hoped it would be like. Yeah. It's just come out of your head.

8:20And although this is the first day for everybody else to enjoy it, I think the publication day is a bit of a full stop because you've worked for so long yeah from you know the initial idea to the laborious sort of you know process of writing it and editing it today it's done and it's out there no going back no going back it's so exciting and I don't take any of it back I wouldn't want to I really stand by it it's like a real snapshot of what I believe and feel like who I am at this moment and that's a really nice position to be in where I can just actually write that sort of thing. I feel very lucky that I get to do it but it's so nice and I hope it's really helpful.

8:58That's the main thing as I want people to read it and go, oh, that's an interesting way of looking at stuff or yeah, I hadn't really thought of that or that's just funny. Hopefully, hopefully people find it funny mainly. Because the sort of the conception of the idea for you was looking at childhood and how as we turn into adults, we all become, well, most of us become very serious and life is very serious and we have to think of things seriously and we want to also be taken seriously. That becomes, very important people must take me seriously and actually you're saying wait we need to claw back some of the fun and the carefree attitude and so you kind of want people to look at that too that's interesting I hadn't thought of that in terms of people wanting to be taken seriously I think I want to be taken less seriously as I get older I think maybe when you're battling jostling for position in whatever job you try and get in your 20s maybe early 20s to make your mark and like, I want to leave a mark on the world.

9:52That's the moment you're like, take me seriously as a grown up. But actually that I look back on that and go, oh, I didn't know what I was doing at all. I had no idea what that even meant. Whereas now I've got a much better perspective on what am I trying to do? What am I trying to say? What do I want people to take from my radio shows or the things I write or the things I put online? What do I want? I want to try and add. I want to try and add something instead of maybe take something out of the world, I guess. I think that was the change that I probably went through. Like a lot of people go through in their early to mid-30s, maybe they're like, oh, maybe it's not what the world can do for me.

10:27It's what I could maybe try and do for the world. And not in too much of a grandiose way, but I've got this platform of speaking to lots of people on the radio of like, oh, when I started, it was like, I must take this job. Take the opportunity. Like, I'm amazing. I'm on Radio 1. Whereas now it's more, I've got this amazing job where I can just try and make people laugh, make their morning better. And obviously I get a lot out of that. But yeah, it's a funny one, that book. It's taken about two years to properly coalesce. And I started by writing slightly silly chapters about how much I hate going to weddings abroad.

11:08I just hate going to weddings. Yeah, we just hate leaving the house. yeah but weddings are so long they are long and also you never get to see the people that you're going to the wedding of because they're busy and sometimes people put you next to someone you don't know I can't think of anything I'd rather not do than go to a wedding well this is it it's the joy of your choice you're allowed to just go actually I love you and I'm not going to your wedding but I do love you and that's true no I tend to go and then just think I don't want to be here just like I'm off under the breath yeah correct your dress looks beautiful it's fucking boring they're just so long yeah The book started with that and a series of silly chapters about my thoughts on the world and growing up and marriage and kids and all the rest of it.

11:47And then I realized I sat with it because I didn't quite have the proper sort of the narrative arc. And I wanted it to all link somehow. And then I thought about a moment when I was 10, when my love of silly stuff really sort of took hold. Chugger Brothers. When I went to the Chugger Brothers. I went to the Chugger Brothers in a way. They've not been mentioned on Happy Place before. Why not? It seems absurd because they're very, they're happy content. They created the happy place for me. For you, sure. And for many people. You must have gone home from school and watched ChuggerVision. Of course.

12:20Of course, I love them. But that would have informed what you went on to do. Like you are very fun and you love silly stuff. Yes, I do. That's why we became friends. It's not exactly the same reference point as you, Chugger Brothers. No, but you're not custard pies. No. But you are really fun. And like you like having a nice time. I love having fun. And you made a career out of doing interesting, fun stuff. Yeah. And so the Chocco Brothers, when I met them when I was 10 with my nan at Weymouth Pavilion, and I queued up for a photograph with them. And they signed the photograph and said, to Gregory, full name, all the best for the future.

12:57And that was, I love, that was my favorite thing ever. I met my first famous people. And I remember my nan saying, that's a weird thing to say to a kid. all the best for the future because it is like the sort of thing you say to Anne from accounts yeah exactly right I can't even like fuck off Anne all the best for the future and I thought that's a great title actually and I so start the book when I'm age 10 with my whole life in front of me what happens what happens to me next and then I go through all the life stages and that's that's what the book became it was like a reminder of all the checkpoints you do go through but just making sure that you want to do them all yeah making sure that you want to you want to get married if you want to society sort of says you must get married and then it says you must have children you must you must do this you must take it you must do a job you must must do a serious job and it's sort of looking at all those things and going are you absolutely sure that you're doing all the things that you want to do and at the same time reminding yourself of all the childhood passions that you had that make you you because I do sort of think that you at 10 is sort of the most pure you you can be yeah without a doubt and you you know you're right you get society sort of conditions you and knocks a lot of that out of you that you know you shouldn't I think one of them is like prioritizing fun we see it as so frivolous and like I haven't got time for fun I had like a huge portion of my 30s I got very serious and I became very uptight and I think because I felt so out of control in certain parts of my life everything became like controlling and I was micromanaging everything and I was like I mustn't have fun fun is risky fun is dangerous if I have fun something bad will happen and in my 20s I was very good at having fun yeah and I could still emulate fun at work but I think in my private life I was like I don't have time for fun I'm far too serious and now and like going back to what we were saying earlier I wanted to be taken seriously because I think I came from kids tv were obviously not taken seriously and then I was on radio one but I never felt like I was fully a dj because I came from tv so I had to prove myself and I was doing celebrity juice which was silliness and it's like I need to be so I think I started happy place with a little bit of that energy.

15:13Like I need to be taken seriously. That's interesting. And now I do not give a shit about that at all. I don't care if people take me seriously or not. I want to do exactly what you said a moment ago. Hopefully leave people having, you know, listened to an episode, feeling less alone, a bit better about their day or their life or whatever. And whether they take me seriously or not, I couldn't give a toss, but I felt it was, but I think it was a coping mechanism and a safety thing. And actually now, I'd say in the last sort of few years, I really want to have fun. And maybe that is because, you know, I'm a bit older than you, but you're getting to your 40s and it's like, shit, you know, time is going quickly.

15:53I can't believe I'm 44. What the hell? You know, I need to start really like it's not in the future. It's today. It's now that I need to find little bits of fun, little pockets of not taking it seriously. But I think as adults, we're not really told that. It's not really encouraged. Or people that are very, you know, I probably would have felt five, six years ago gone, oh, well, it's all right for them. They've got time to have fun. I'd be quite judgy about it. We can all find time to have more fun. That's so interesting that you started Happy Place and you felt like you were more serious than you are now.

16:24Yeah, I felt I felt a need for people to see me as like, oh, she knows things. She has a brain. She's read books, which I've always done. But I didn't get to showcase that. Fun people read books. Fun people read books. I mean, you only become fun by reading books. You only know about things because you get to read. I am completely with you on, I think I had a version of what you're talking about. And it's because you can get transfixed on a certain thing. And I think I wanted to make my mark on Radio 1. I wanted to be like, can I get the drive time show? Can I get the breakfast show? And actually lost sight of why I got into it in the first place.

17:02Why did I go to my local hospital radio station when I was 14 and just watched the old guys putting the CDs away and doing the show and stuff. Why did I do it? Because I loved radio and I just was interested in it. It was a passion of mine. And then, but that happens in life. And that experience has helped me write this, which is you can just get swept along and you lose focus on stuff and you lose the reason you're doing things. You lose the reason why you might want to have kids. That might be the most brilliant thing for you. But some people just go into it, they just sleepwalk into it and go, Yeah, I'll just probably do that now.

17:36I think most people do. Do you actually want to do that? And I think that was a turning point for me. Like it sounds like it was for you where you just go, actually, I'm going to return to who I really am, which is who I was as a kid, as a teenager. And when I was 18, I think I was most fearless with just going for radio, wanting to get onto Radio 1, just because I just thought I could. But it wasn't like a blind ambition. It was just like, this is really fun. I'm just going to fuck around and see if it happens. And it did happen. and now I feel much closer to who I was as a teenager and an 18 year old than I ever have done yeah how cool feels really exciting and that's that's that was the breakthrough and I thought well I'm not special that can happen to lots of different people so hopefully that can be a reminder for for others it's like do you do the stuff that makes you yeah makes you happy and you don't have to make it all into work either no no I mean yeah we've done that a hell of a lot and you know it's a it's a tricky one because you want to remain enjoying it but I think it's so interesting returning to that version of yourself because i think a lot of us i i certainly i'm speak for myself only have sprinted at times so far away from that version of myself and i i think i made this discovery it might have been five six years ago where my friend sent me a video of new year's eve when i'm about i don't know 1920 terrible haircut i wanted to look like the John Frieda twins I ended up looking like Rod Stewart it was so bad and we're really shit-faced and we're filming ourselves and we are and it was like on a video camera and we are hysterically laughing and being so silly and I remember that moment and I was so carefree in it and maybe five six years ago and I wasn't feeling so great I was like oh where's she gone like where's that version gone and I'd spent so long running from her like oh my god she's common she's uneducated she didn't go to university and I was sprinting you know read more books know more stuff interview more you know more important people so people don't see that version keep her hidden hide her the fuck away don't let anyone look at the old version of me and then I got to a point where I was like yeah but by doing that I've lost all the good bits I've lost the fun the carefree the like silliness the you know the bit that likes make people laugh that's all died a bit so it's quite a tricky thing to then start to recover that version of yourself because you've got to look at the bits that you don't like that you're a bit embarrassed about.

20:03And I, you know, I learned a hell of a lot about you reading this book. We've known each other for, wait for it, 18 years. I worked that out today. Yeah. You started in 2007. I did. I learned you for 18 years. That is absurd. That's amazing. It's a great long time though. It is, but there's still stuff I learned about you in this book. Like, you love fire engines, didn't know that. But also... I don't shout about that. It's not like, You know, if I'm 21 joining Radio 1 and trying to impress Fern Cotton, I'd be like, a couple of things about me. Love music, love radio, love fire engines. That wasn't going to work, was it?

20:37I find it endearing at this point now. I don't think you would have done that. It might not have worked back then. Because a 21-year-old me was like, there's a chance here. There's a chance that I could get off of Fern Cotton. Gregory. Well, of course. No, I'm 21. I'm like working at the same place that Fern Cotton's at. So obviously I'm going to be like trying to impress you. Look, we were... Oh, I'm red. Well, like a fire engine. Like a fire engine. It's your lucky day. Like a lovely Dennis. I've got really hot. But look, but that's... I'm a menopausal woman. We instantly established a brother-sister relationship.

21:08Yeah, sadly. Sadly. Yeah. But what the fuck was I even talking about? Well, you were talking about returning to that former you. But what I would say about that... No, I've remembered. Go on, carry on. What I would say about that is that you do need to... you do need to try stuff out I think that's part of what your 20s and your 30s should be and you're supposed to make horrible mistakes you're supposed to regret decisions you're supposed to look back in horror and go what was I doing I treated them so badly yeah that's that is all unfortunately part of it but as long as you can be aware of that and go okay well let me let me pick those fun bits that I loved about me my ambition or my fearlessness or whatever it might be or just my pure love of going to a gig or doing a radio show or just listening to the radio if you can you can pick those best bits now that you're a bit older and a bit smarter you can pick those best bits and go all right well leave leave all the awful stuff yeah but pick the essence of you which is like still bubbling away somewhere because you've got you've got to mess up you've got to try stuff you've got to fall in and out of love and break people's hearts and have your heart broken all the time that's part of life but the whole point is that you can, with hindsight, you can cherry pick all the best bits, hopefully.

22:21Yeah, exactly. And I think, I guess it's about not necessarily completely bearing those bits of yourself or memories that you don't like. It's trying to find, it doesn't have to be comfort, but like a level of acceptance. Like, yeah, I messed up. Or yeah, I was a bit stupid there or whatever it is, but not continuously berate yourself. It's a fine line. One thing I didn't know about you was that your name isn't Greg James. I know. You must have known that. wow there you go didn't know that's crazy it's fun isn't it and that it is fun but again you know you know you tell the story about how you know the the name greg james just kind of you were all of a sudden you were on radio one it was like okay i'm called greg james this is my name now but bits of bits of your story like that is that kind of like a bit icky to look back at like oh my god there's this bit i don't know about me i thought it was and then i started i wrote the chapter about uh Student radio, I was trying to get a show on my student radio station.

23:19And this guy called Big Dave, huge guy, Big Dave, invited me into the radio station on Freshers Week and said, come and do a show. Fill this form out. What's your show going to be? And I thought, these are my people. These are the nerds. These are the radio nerds. Like a bunch of virgins. This is great. These are my people. I was the cool one out of that lot. And they're still my good mates now. and I filled out the form and I remember it Dave was there going yeah maybe do a DJ name because Greg Millwood is not I don't think it's particularly I don't think it's as good as Greg James I think that's a great Radio 1 name It's so strong I was always obsessed with Radio 1 so it was like Scott Mills You could hear the eye dent as you were writing it down Radio 1 Greg James Scott Mills Sarah Cox Fern Cotton It was like it was much better than Greg Millwood and of course it would have been fine I've totally overthought it but I think there was a bit of me that was like I'm just going to try a new thing out yeah and that was me trying the ultimate new thing out and i've been him greg james more than i've been the other guy for ages and it's kind of funny now i like it and it's um i there was a time when i was like people must never know this is my big secret but if that's your big secret you need some fucking better secrets yeah exactly i i'm i'm much happier to say it talking about it now yeah and that's um that's it it's really it's really fun i like having the delineation between the two.

24:41It's fun. It feels like I've been playing a role. You're sort of Sasha Fierce. I am Sasha Fierce. You are Sasha Fierce.

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26:47It's remarkable when you sort of read your story going from that moment of finding student radio, loving it, to then you being chosen to be a Radio 1 DJ. If you love radio, Radio 1 is the goal. Like that's where you want to be. you know I had a weird you know sort of went off on different tangents and did tv first but I always had radio one in my sights of course it's just the coolest place to work and of course it's so hard to get that gig and there are thousands of other kids doing student radio in your case that want to be doing that so of course you've got to be good which naturally you're brilliant at storytelling you're you know you're articulate you know you know what you want to do.

27:31But I think the other part of it is you have to be obsessional. Would you agree? Yeah, I think that's true. You have to love it. You have to absolutely know what the radio station is all about. And I was very lucky that I had just listened to it forever. And I just thought, I remember listening to it and thinking, I could do that at some point. I don't know how, but I feel like I could do that. I know I sort of knew how I could fit in in a weird way. Because I loved what it stood for. I loved the spirit of it. I loved music. I loved live music and just funny stuff and just things, just silly things.

28:11And it just felt like a bunch of people I wanted to hang out with. That was the mad thing. And actually, in writing the book, I freaked out one day because I wrote a bit about how I took my radio, because I'm old, my actual hi-fi to university and set that up first in my room. because I wanted my mates there. And that sounds lame, but I don't care. It is lame. No, it's not lame. It's cool. It's not cool, but it's cooler than Fire Edges. I love that we just listened to your internal dialogue. This is Happy Place where Greg James is having a conversation with himself about things. But I had that lineup with me, which you were on, but that daytime lineup at the time was Moyles, Joe Wiley, Colin Edith, Scott Mills, Zane Lowe.

28:59and then three years later, I was on it. I was on that lineup. That's mad. But I sort of thought, oh, I think that might happen. Yeah. Weirdly, I just thought I could probably do that. I don't know how, but it could happen. I love that. I know that feeling. I love that feeling. And I think, again, it's a feeling that over time is harder to grab hold of because I had the same as a kid. I think, you know, perhaps we were lucky that we had maybe parents or I certainly had like drama and dance teachers around me. I went to like a real, you know, local dance school, not like a stage school. But everyone was really, you know, you can do it kind of attitude with everyone.

29:40And my parents are pretty laid back. So they're always like, yeah, you want to do a thing? You do the thing. And I certainly had that like, yeah, I could be on the TV. I could do it. And it's not a cockiness. I think it's a childlike perhaps naivety, but you really do believe, why not me? You know, why other people? Why not me? And I think as you get older, I'm speaking for myself again, but I find that really hard these days to go, yeah, I could do that. I'll go, yeah, I could do that. And then I'll go, oh, yeah, but that could be a tricky problem. And then there's a risk there. And then I've talked myself out of it.

30:17I didn't have any down talk before. It was just, I'm going to do it. Has it got harder, do you think? It does get harder because of being a grown-up. That's the whole point. So fucking shit being a grown up sometimes. It can be. Yes. But life is horrible. Yes. Sometimes. Yeah. And there's inevitabilities of you're going to have to do boring stuff. Yeah. You're going to have to pay some bills. You're going to have to do some days of work that you really hate. If you're lucky, you get to do a job that you kind of like or love. That's that's amazing. If that's if that's the case, your friends are going to be horrible to you.

30:49Your heart is going to be broken and you will die. And your favorite people will get ill and they will die. All of those things. I know that sounds bleak for a podcast called Happy Place, but in order to get to the fun and the joy, you have to process the fact that that is all going to happen. So take that as read. So the only thing you can do to counteract that is try and find pockets of fun and enjoyment and laughter wherever you can. I think that's the hardest thing about being a grown up. If you're lucky enough to, you know, have a job and have a roof over your head, that's obviously really important.

31:23But if that's sorted, the hardest stuff you will face is having to deal with the fact that all this grown up stuff is actually has to happen. But you've got to try and carve out space for some fun. Yeah. Along the way. I mean, our job can be helpful in terms of, you know, it does force you to do that sometimes. I can turn up to the studio and think, oh, I haven't got it in me. I'm tired. I don't feel great. That's what you said to me earlier. Exactly. I can't be fucked at all. But you do sometimes just turn up in a shit mood. And then by the end of it, you're like, I feel absolutely brilliant.

31:53I've learned something new. I enjoyed the company that I had, you know, and you feel genuinely lucky. You're doing that every day. You know, when I was at Radio 1, it is a strange pressure that you could have all sorts going on in your personal life. But when you put that microphone fader up, you need to be jolly. You need to have some stories in the bag. You need to be there for the listener, whether they're having a good day or a crap day. it's a really it's a really strange switch that you have to turn on and you talk about a real specific moment in the book where there was some family illness going on and you were dealing with that and it was really bloody stressful but you do have to show up and be at work put that microphone up and and you're on that's the hardest thing about being a grown-up you have to show up you have to you have to be there with your kids or your partner or your job no matter what's going on you still you have to keep going and that's the thing that you've just got to try your very very best to do you because the other the alternative is what giving up yeah that's just not the option i guess like with your partner or kids you can be a bit ratty and because you know you're going to be loved whereas on the radio well yeah you can't be i guess i've i've thought long and hard about that as well and really the thing i think that that links everybody is that we all want to be together and then I sort of think if I wake up and I'm feeling awful and it's five o 'clock and I'm stressed and I've had a row or my dad's poorly which has happened a lot in my life I just think well let's go and hang out with some people and that tends to naturally that's my reaction to anything anyway which is I'm feeling sad I feel like I'm spiraling or I'm having a panic attack or something let's go and hang out with some people so I'd always call a friend or I'd always speak to Bella or in my case, go on the radio.

33:46And actually that's an amazingly fortunate position where I turn up to that show. I can sort of put on my Greg James mask, which is even more handsome than this one. It just slots over this one and go, right, who wants to laugh? And everyone wants to have a laugh. and so actually that completely takes me out of myself takes me out of reality for a little bit and I forget about all the troubles because people just want to have a nice time they want to have a laugh they want to be united no matter what their belief system is what their politics is just they want to have a nice time and I can help if I can help facilitate that and be the ringleader that brings me a lot of joy and I genuinely wouldn't be still doing that show if I didn't get that out of it.

34:33Yeah. It's one of those jobs that is a massive sort of privilege to do. Well paid. Yes. But I would not do it if I didn't want to do it. I don't think you can. I don't think you can fake that gig. You're right. You can't pretend to want to do that breakfast show. You can't. And seven years I would have been found out I think someone would have gone that's an act. Yeah. You actually cannot pretend. You can't. For three hours it's too tiring. You'd be exhausted. But you also just have to be in it. And I'm totally in that world. And I love, I really, really love the radio listeners. I think that's so funny.

35:11And we've just got this lovely, like that relationship has been built over, for a lot of them, more than 10, like as you said, 18 years ago I started there. So there will be a few people still listening then. But there'll be so many new listeners. But like over numbers of years, you just build up that sort of rapport. And they get some of the in jokes. And they know bits about my life. and I know the listeners and sort of you meet them at various things. And it just, it's a really amazing gang. And I love being, not even in the centre, really, but just I like facilitating it and being like, you've got a funny story.

35:44Come and make everyone laugh. I think that's such a fun role that I found for myself, which is not like, I'm the funniest person here. Listen to how funny I am. Listen to my show. It's more like, I mean, yes, I am funny. but here are some even funnier stories like silly bits that have come up or how about this meme or how about this this pop star who fell over on stage or whatever it might be i love being the ringleader of stupid stuff it is there's no job like it it's so brilliantly weird and you know i i felt very i felt similar you know when i was at radio one you do have this wonderful report I've taken some to radio too because old.

36:26But it is so intimate. You know, you're in people's cars, in their workplace. Like we've said, they could be going through anything and you're there alongside them constantly. But alongside that amazing privilege and that, you know, it's exhilarating, it's alive. You know, you're reacting to whatever's going on in the world, in the studio, in the listeners' lives. there is an immense amount of pressure to not go wrong. And we're humans. We're not robots. And, you know, the propensity to mess up, you're on the cusp of it constantly. Saying the wrong thing, stuttering, swearing. Farting. Farting, being clumsy.

37:11Like, that's terrifying. It is, yeah. But I do also think there's a sort of sickness that I quite like that. Do you? I used to and I don't now. Do not. I still love that it can all go tits up. And I don't know what that is. But tits up is fun. I agree. I love it when things, but exactly the moment where you say something that you can't come back from terrifies me. And you know, you're a good person. I'm a good person. We don't want to upset anyone. It's a given that we don't want to say the wrong thing. But of course, you know, if you're at the pub with your mates or whatever, I know it's not the same, but you know, you might say something, you think, oh, I've really upset my friend.

37:50I didn't mean to piss them off there. I just said it was a bit clumsy how that came out or whatever. That is career-ending stuff. And that's what has stopped me from wanting to do live TV or radio. I'm not in the place where I'd want to do it at the moment. TV is an interesting one. I was doing a TV thing the other day, the Grand Designs podcast with Kevin MacLeod. But I was amazed when we were recording it. They had a lawyer listening to everything we were saying. Wow. Pre-recorded. not going out for like two weeks what's that lady doing over there keeps sort of interrupting and going can you just retake that and they're like oh that's the lawyer she's sitting here listening to every word I mean interesting that we don't have that on live radio and there's no script there's no we're just saying stuff and the callers are live and the guests are there and you're it's amazing I think but that's also what makes radio so good That's what makes it must listen because there's so much shit you can listen to all the time.

38:52You could be going to work and, you know, watch a Marvel film on your phone, which was cost 200 million dollars to make. And yet people are still wanting to switch on to the radio. And that's partly that I think that it's live and dangerous. But yeah, I mean, you are that is exhilarating. there was a guy who there was a guy who played sex noises down the phone to me when we were trying to do a feature a couple of years ago and that cancelled the feature right so I said hello Lewis he played like the thing that goes uh down the phone oh for fuck's sake

39:29um yeah so you do you do get certain bits like that but I just I don't know I guess I have it's the same reason I don't swear. I swear loads in real life. As do you. As do I. But you can just turn that, turn it off. you do sort of. I don't know what that is. Maybe it's professionalism. It could be. But yeah, it is stressful a bit that way. But I think the thing that I would never moan about, although this might now sound like a moan, is that it is, that sort of job, the job of The Breakfast Show is all consuming. and I think about it all day every day and that's what you have to do and that is not that is not a moan but that is what it takes to make sure it's good every day and that was always my aim was to go I just need this needs to be good every day I can't sort of I can't roll up hungover because it's just me and the listeners and it'll be obvious there's no sidekick to sort of help me out and I guess it does it takes a toll on your friendships a bit because you're sort of bound to be at home winding down or asleep or preparing for a thing um and your and my marriage actually because I remember when I got married to Bella I said so obviously this is my dream I've got to do my dream job we just got married and I was like it'll be a couple of years and then it's seven years seven years like uh you know i'm nearly about to die of old age it's hilarious i'm still doing it but um you know i miss sitting up with her and chatting and not being stressed or thinking about what questions i'm going to ask the rock tomorrow yeah and also finding some animal news and preparing for unpopular opinion which are all great problems to have but those sorts of jobs because they're every day it's quite it's pretty unique i think in the media landscape where you're doing this mad live thing every single morning and it's got the biggest stars in the world and a big spotlight on you and all that kind of stuff i realized the sort of the weight of that so i do take it really seriously but inevitably things in my real life do fall by the wayside it's kind of like amazed that i managed to be able to do that that write that book because I carved out proper time but really I wrote a load of stuff about yeah I probably do too much work I should prioritize my friends while writing a book on my weekends and my holidays while not seeing my friends so there's a huge irony alarm going off but yeah it's hard.

42:00Do you mind you know because I've thought about this a lot do you mind being a bit of a workaholic? I don't anymore I think that it gets a bad press being a workaholic you know people tell you constantly you should like relax more or whatever I really really like working yeah I love it and I'm constantly if I get anywhere near oh I've sort of plateaued a bit there I'm just letting myself never coast but I'm like I'm quite comfy I know what I'm doing I think this is not okay this is not good enough you need a new challenge you need to be a bit more sort of worried and scared about what you're doing I'll think of something else to scare the shit out of me yeah and I love it I don't care that I'm a bit of a workaholic I'll always make time for my kids yeah obviously I want to be a present mom and have social life and all that stuff but I love working but it's a it's the passion of the thing that you like probably like making the thing it's not um yeah like all of it I like getting up and doing emails straight away like I kind of like all of it do I agree with that sort of yeah I mean I think I'm a radioaholic I love I love I'm I am addicted to being on the radio I think it's I feel very free and joyful and my full self and I feel able to express myself and that is such a privilege to be able to just open a microphone and just say a fucking mad thing or do a stupid accent or whatever it is not an offensive accent by the way never a silly accent then become a pop star for example exactly does that worry then about what comes after the breakfast show sort of sort of but I've stopped myself from thinking about it it did used to I think two years in to the breakfast show I thought god how now what because I think there was a part of the bit of time where I went all right I've done that now but I hadn't I didn't scratch the surface I had two years three years I hadn't even scratched the surface and the pandemic turned up and it reframed the show I got loads better at doing it I understood the listeners way more I understood radio to this new level I was like oh my god this is I knew it was amazing but I didn't realize quite what it can do to people's days and like be a lifeline be a source of companionship and all that stuff so i think i'm a workaholic in the sense that i get a lot of joy from my work but i would happily sit on my ass all day for a bit i think would you yeah i think so i'm quite good on holiday now like if i've got two weeks off you're not hearing from me i'm dead really but i But I know what you mean.

44:28I get the itch and I go, but that does give me a lot of stuff. It gives me a lot of joy and I love connecting to people and stuff. So I do understand what you mean in terms of it's a lovely job to have, isn't it? And you think, well, what else could I do? But that's just your curiosity, I think. That is quite childlike in a sense. Yeah, definitely. Just to go, what else is there? Yeah, I'm constantly like, what else? But what a nice state to be in. I think that's a really nice state to exist in. I think I've probably worried about it disproportionately because sometimes I think for women it's like you should be at home more or you should, you know, and there's that kind of pressure.

45:04And, you know, it's always sort of a juggle and you're always knackered. But one that I love, I really love. Just on that, I think there's a danger. There's a balance there between loving work and being a workaholic. But actually then that phrase of do a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life is not actually true. because you are working and you you have to re as long as you realize you're working and that you also need to switch off and have a life and your dog your job doesn't become your dog doesn't become you your dog doesn't become you my dog hasn't gotten to your dog my dog has become me i've become my dog but your job isn't you you are not your job i'm not the radio and breakfast show host in my life that's not i mean that is a thing that i do but to my wife and to my friends i want to be Greg and I want to be a really good friend and a great brother and I want to be a really good son and those things as long as those things are in balance then go to work and be fully in it I think I totally agree with that also I I guess it's important to distinguish the love of the job versus if I become the radio on breakfast show DJ that must mean something I must then be an okay human like I'm I'm doing well like as long as it's not fully supporting your self-esteem because I think you know I'm certainly not in that period of my life now but back when I was maybe in my 20s I certainly thought if I reach certain levels of this career or there are certain accolades you know people will see me differently and then maybe I'll like myself more and none of that happens like the most obvious end to a story that that is rubbish and actually that stuff has to be cultivated from acceptance and looking at yourself and growth and learning and then you can actually maybe enjoy the job more and you can still have big goals big challenges you want to set yourself but you're doing it for you not for the you know creating this framework that holds up all of your confidence in one place well i thought that i would be complete at one point in my life if i got the radio and breakfast show i thought that would be it i thought that would be job done yeah i fucking smashed it i'll be and i'll finally reach happiness fine finally and that was completely wrong and obviously meant that at that time then i should not have got it and i didn't because obviously lots of smarter people than me went no not him he's nowhere near ready that's that's not what's going on but when i when i separated my self-worth and my self-esteem from getting the big gig that i always thought would be really fun to do it turns out it is really fun to do and it meant in the nicest possible way it meant less because i didn't if i hadn't have got the breakfast show when i got it i wouldn't have died but i got it and i was like yeah i'll give that a go that'd be really fun i'm really up for that but it didn't mean that my life was complete and that i was finally i'd finally arrived it wasn't that at all i'd i'd sort of arrived at myself a few years before that which was just to say i'm really enjoying my stuff here i've got some really lovely friends i really like my family where i'm you know i've got i had a really good girlfriend at the time i'm like just this is what a nice time i'm having and i've got enough money to go on nice holidays and go out and not worry about buying lunch and all that kind of stuff and i thought anything from this point onwards is a bonus and i've had that attitude really since i started breakfast which was anything that happens from here is a bonus and I do genuinely believe that and it feels really liberating to say.

48:46I mean you talk about your suspicions about the concept of happiness which I thought was really interesting. Yeah. It's no coincidence that I chose the name Happy Place for the work that I'm doing because it's loaded you know it's something that we see as a futuristic, you know, something that's attainable only in the future. I'll be happy when I get the job, I get the partner, I get divorced, whatever the thing is, it's in the future. And actually, most of us are living like that really subconsciously all the time. Even though I know all this stuff and I talk about this stuff all the time, I still slip into it constantly.

49:21Oh, like next week when I've got that book edit done, then I'll be able to be happy. And it's such nonsense, but we constantly live in that cycle of believing it's coming it's so what what are your thoughts on happiness why are you suspicious of it as a concept well i i actually thought i was thinking about you a lot during that bit of the book because the word happy is tricky it's really tricky because it isn't necessarily a destination and it's certainly not a destination you can sit at for long so we're i think we're sort of conditioned that happy is the default when we're kids you're like just do this and you'll be happy keep smiling be happy and that comes and goes and it's supposed i think it's supposed to of course you're supposed to feel happy every now and then in a day you can feel 10 different emotions yeah and you can feel happy at 9 a.m sad at midday happy again at three sad when you go to bed sometimes i do that all in like a minute yeah that's okay ever changing during this podcast Correct.

50:22All the emotions. Boredom. Despair. Intolerance.

50:32Yeah, rashes have appeared. All sorts. But I think that's the thing that I wanted to try and hammer home, which was that, as you said, that happiness is not a destination. But there are lots of life. It doesn't just go, I do this and this and this and this and I'll be happy, which is why the sort of the retirement thing I've always found really interesting even when I wasn't doing a fun job I always questioned like the idea of retiring like keep working keep working keep working keep working keep going you're 70 now you can enjoy your life yeah well I mean yeah there's some sprightly 70 year olds my parents are two of them but not quite as active as you maybe were when you were 30 or 40.

51:15So you've got to try and, if you can, try and do some of life now. Today. Also, you don't know if you're going to get to 70 and all that kind of stuff. You've got to do it now. So really, I think contentment is better. And I feel content more than I feel extraordinarily happy. You have moments of elation and happiness, much like you have moments of sadness. But trying to chase the happy thing, I find quite difficult because it implies that if you don't reach that, you've failed, basically. And the default I don't think is everything's going to be fine. I don't mean it to sound depressing, but the default should be, yeah, and if you get above the line, it's great.

51:58And if you're down below, you haven't gone too far down below and you're not sort of on the floor. You just go, that was a bad day. What are the things that I can do to make myself feel better? Okay, I'm going to go for a run. I'm going to go and see my mate. because it is all the simple stuff isn't it and it's such a fucking cliche but it is true that you know we we do pin happiness on what we see and our culture has changed so greatly even in the last 10 years as to what we're seeing and how we're seeing it so we're so much more exposed to people who are living extraordinary lives and therefore we assume oh the mark is now higher than i thought it was i've got to do this to be happy i've got to go on the swanky five-star holiday where you're in the Maldives and you've got a floating plate of fruit in front of you what I yeah but actually it's all going to come from what you've just said there like what makes you feel content or okay or just like your baseline is just yeah I'm doing all right I've been for a run I've checked in with a friend I've eaten a nice meal it's all that stuff yeah I mean look speaking from a place of uh of of earning good money and having a good job it would be disingenuous to say that having some money doesn't improve your life because absolutely a level of of money means that you can live okay feed yourself house yourself all those things i totally get that and i would never be the guy preaching from you know my position but it's not necessarily it's not about the grand gestures in life that you get your happiness from i don't think and i i had a realization when writing about my mum and when we used to we used to do a long journey to school there was a period of about two or three years when we lived miles away from basically we couldn't move house but my dad had to move schools because he would teach her and so he was the school was miles away from the house and we couldn't it was an hour and a half commute but those years i look back on so fondly because i was with my mum for 90 minutes to school, 90 minutes on the way back.

53:59And we would just chat, we would listen to the radio, listen to music. And I remember every single day she would put some fruit gums in the glove box from, she was a teacher as well, from her school tuck shop, in the glove box and I would open them and have them on the way home every single day. And I remember that just as vividly, well actually I remember that way more than all the presents I got at Christmas, all the presents I got at birthday, all the holidays that we went on. I remember that more. So I think there's a there's um we're skewed from what we see and what we hear about people's mad celebrity shiny lives that really there's a real beauty in the mundane and the ordinary and just the run-of-the-mill interactions with people that we tend to forget about because we're chasing the big car the big job the bigger house the nicer clothes the new games console whatever it might be and obviously those things have their place if that's your thing but i really do think that we're missing a trick with the human connection thing which is actually the most joy you can get sometimes from your day is not treating yourself to a new pair of shoes or a handbag or whatever but that wasn't pointed at you lovely shoes by the way oh daddy that's um but actually those interactions going for a glass of wine with your mate or calling them up and just having a gossip and talking about your debauched night the other night or the horrible boy that you've slept with or whatever it might be those are those are the bits that keep us ticking over as humans more than ridiculous amounts of money and showing off and stuff most security systems react after a break-in begins that's too late simply safe is different it's proactive active guard outdoor protection uses ai powered cameras to spot suspicious activity before criminals get inside.

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57:00I mean, my happiest moment in the week at the moment is Tuesday night watching Bake Off with my kids. Nice. I am so happy. Yeah. Just sat there. I always have to get a snack because it makes you super hungry watching Bake Off. we're all you know putting our own little lines of commentary together for who we think so like I that is it that is the happiest bit of my week and I love it I look forward to it and I enjoy every minute of it I mean it seems like writing the book has also given you an insight into your own mental health experiences whether they were yours or people that you are related to that perhaps there wasn't the wording for it when we were growing up you know you say when you were a kid you'd be in class feeling a bit funny and like the room was all going a bit fizzing and you would now define that as a panic attack yeah I completely forgot about that until I started writing about it I remember I was in Mr Penny's history class and I just I zoned out but everything just became really big and zoomed in and everything was sort of pulsing and my ears would go and I just felt like I don't know what was going on but I was just a scared lost 12 year old 13 year old however old I was and I just thought I was a freak and didn't tell anyone obviously because that would mean I don't know what was happening to me yeah am I am I weird but obviously not and I guess it was a panic attack or some sort of anxiety attack or something yeah this there was there was the language wasn't around and there was there was no one there was no one really to talk to about that.

58:35And do you ever get them now? I haven't had them for a long time. I I used to get really nervous before any big interview with a guest. But that seems to have stopped now. I think just by doing them and by realising you don't die. And that they're just people. And it's just people. And, you know, it's just people trying to flog their shit movie invariably that's it um or people trying to flog their shit book case in point it's not shit um it's the best book in the world i haven't had those sorts of things for a long time i no i'm very very lucky with my brain and bella reminds me this a lot of the time She's like, I can't believe how mentally stable you are.

59:28Yeah, considering the job I do and the things that I have to do. And your dad's mental health has not been stable. Yeah, so we didn't have the language for that. My dad's brain has been a puzzle for him, I guess his whole life. But he wouldn't have really known what was going on. And it was actually when he had to step back from teaching when he was 50 because of ill health and depression, but he had a heart problem and still has huge heart problems. And actually he's got to have surgery again soon, which is worrying, very worrying. But yeah, I mean, that's a whole thing. That's been present in my life.

1:00:07So those are the things you have to, you know, you still have to go through your life and do your stuff without going, oh my God, my dad, my dad, my dad, my dad. But yeah, he had huge problems with depression and still does. It comes and goes in waves, I think. and just the thing is now we talk about it and we have great conversations about it and he okayed everything that I put in the book about it because I think it will help lots of people and it will help maybe break open the barriers if you've got a friend or a family member or a brother, sister, mum, dad who suffer as well just to go no shame, no shame here, it's totally not your fault and doesn't mean your brain's bad, just means that it's maybe not your friend at the moment and it also does not define you.

1:00:53This is not defining who you are. You are not a depressed person. Your brain is just not helping you out at the moment. And it's been really good to talk to him about it and to work that through. And I think he's probably looked back through the rest of his life and gone, yeah, I would have been suffering from this the whole time. But it wasn't until a big life moment happened, as in the job went away, that he went, oh, I'm nothing now. because a lot of my self-worth was put on the job and providing for the family and all the rest of it. So I don't come at this book with no experience of difficult situations, but I do think there are lessons to be learned from how my dad was and thought, oh my God, that's it, life over at 50 because what am I without my job?

1:01:45And so I've always kept that in my head of like, well you're loads of things everyone is loads of things without their job a job is just you know sort of bending down to your pay masters to a certain extent but society doesn't you know give you a pat on the back for being kind or thoughtful or inquisitive or all the qualities that we have it but it doesn't does it you know the first thing you say when you meet someone is what do you do i know you talk about this when you speak to listeners on the radio show you know It's a funny one that, isn't it? I'm conflicted over that because equally it's a quick shorthand.

1:02:20But it's interesting. It can be really interesting. Yeah. It can be really interesting as well. But we are obsessed by that above anything else. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you're right. And that's part of the, this is the whole thing, isn't it? These are societal pressures. Like you're nothing unless you get a good job. Well, that's just not true. Nope. You can have a really lovely job that just pays your way, give yourself a nice life and it doesn't define you and you leave your work at work at 5 p.m. and you go off and have a lovely evening, you go and join a sports club, you go and fly a kite or whatever you want to go and do.

1:02:55And that's wonderful. Yeah. But if you put too much on anything, it's like if you put too much on your relationship, if you put too much on one particular thing and then suddenly that's gone, what are you left with? So you do have to make sure you've got good, sort of just a good spread of stuff in your life and you are not, I keep saying it, but you and I'm maybe convincing myself you are not your job because it will go there'll be a period of time where I will be washed up and not on the Radial Breakfast Show we'll both be doing panto mate that's fine bring that on bring it on I could go and hang out with Paul Chuckle do you know what I've got my backup plan always you know because I've definitely had points where I've thought I can't do this anymore I'm out the pressure's too much I don't want people thinking they know who I am or gossiping talking shit about me yeah my constant is I'm going to start a cat sanctuary.

1:03:46Right. You could do a dog one. I think everyone's got one of them. It's either, I don't think I could do a dog sanctuary. I could, I think it's bookshop for me. Bookshop. Yeah. Like Hugh Grant in Notting Hill. Are we thinking that kind of vibe? I think that's what everyone thinks. That's what every slightly floppy haired man thinks. They're like walking around with a tote bag. Just waiting for Julia Roberts to show up. Yeah, looking interesting. I've read all these. See these? I've read them all twice. Yeah, I think that's probably it. But this is it. I sort of pose this question of like, who's to say I would have been any happier doing the job that my mum and dad did?

1:04:24Both teachers, I would have loved that. In another world, I would have loved to have done another thing. I think there are loads of different lives you could have had and can still have. Can still, yeah. That's the other thing. And as much as I don't mean this to be an attack on Bella, there are lots of, and the same for me, like there are lots of people that we could have fallen in love with and got married to. In fact, she did get married to someone else before me. You know, there are lots of people that you can end up with. There are lots of friends you can find. So it's kind of, a lot of it is chance and a lot of it is random.

1:04:57So you might as well, you might as well enjoy the ones that you're enjoying at that moment. Too right. And there can always be a new chapter. Always. I love a new chapter. Love it. Before we round things off, Gregory Millwood, where is your happy place are you trying to get rid of me now by the way this is like my polite wrap up is this a normal part of the show where you'd get rid of me or are you bored no no we've actually sort of surpassed the hour have we I pay by the hour it's like therapy so I'll be invoicing you afterwards where is your happy place doesn't have to be literal I think it's walking around with Bella and Barney after a long day.

1:05:42That's it. Yeah. Yeah, it is. We have to force ourselves to do it sometimes because she'll be stressed or I'll be tired or it's like, oh, I have to go and take the dog for a walk. Then we go, no. We've got this amazing, this mad creature living in our house who just wants to live. I've learned so much of that fucking stupid dog. I love how much you talk about your dog. I've learnt so much about joy from him. He's got three bionic legs, which has cost thousands. Please buy the book. I need it. He's got two bad knees. He did his ACL on both legs. That's what my producer Alushka's done. Nightmare.

1:06:27Let me send her to the super vet. Okay, what, to Noel? Yeah, to Noel. Right, so Noel Fitzpatrick sorted Barney out. Yeah, he is the best bionic vet out there. But. World class. Barney wakes up every day and just wants to play with us. He just wants to wrestle with me every day. He wakes me up on a weekend by just doing that on my head with his nose. Get up while you're asleep. Boring. He's like, come on. And if I don't wake up, he starts hitting me over the head with his paw. And I'm like, oh, my God. But he's undeniably fun. Yeah. And I go, all right, then. Let's go. Let's go. And he reminds me.

1:07:05I never thought that I'd be best friends with a dog, by the way. I never saw that for me. I was like, that's nice that you've got your little dog. Yeah, cute. All right. And now I'm just, I'm dog man. You're a dog person. And I just, I love hanging out with him. And he's just always wiggling around. Yeah. Let's go for a walk. Even if he's tired, he's like, let's go swimming. Yeah. And that's, that's what, that's my happy place is all walking around the block with Bella and I'm holding a glass of wine like Rihanna. Yes. That's my fave. I love that. It feels so reckless, doesn't it, doing that? Although we are allowed in the UK to walk around the streets with alcohol, it's like, I've got a wine glass.

1:07:46This is reckless. I'm in my pyjamas. I'm holding a wine glass. I'm drinking wine whilst we're just walking around, just chatting. Just de - Dreaming. Just downloading the day, de-stressing. Yeah. I'd say that would be it. Oh, so lovely. I really laughed when you were telling the story about you were trying to pick up a dog shit and Barney's pulling you on, and you actually said out loud, what's going on here? What's going on here? But that's another thing. I mean, I guess it's similar to kids. And like they really, they ground you and they humble you. Yeah. And you know, for a teenage kid, their parents, even if they're pop stars or very successful presenters, authors.

1:08:20Oh, Rex thinks I'm an absolute moron. Yeah. Right. Like hugely. I will, you know, he's about to become a teenager in the new year. Terrifying. That is terrifying. And I will, I'm deeply trying to impress him, telling him things, explaining what I do. That might be one of the reasons that I don't want kids. it's because I'm like I don't want a teenager to bring me back down to size but it's even more than that it's like they reject you and you think how can this be I was going to be the one mum that wasn't going to be rejected by the teenager and in real time it's happening well let me tell you this I won't be rejected by my kids because I'm not going to have any okay so fuck you cut scene done that's a perfect end note Greg you're the best was that fun was that alright it was so great I loved that it was so good that's one of those episodes that could have gone on for three hours you know like American podcasts go on for about five hours like Joe Rogan or Jay Shetty we just do like nice short stuffy ones because my feeling is you lot are like you know you're on you're on the work commute you're out on a dog walk you haven't got three hours right I'm not wrong am I you can correct me go on Instagram and tell me if I'm wrong but I think the length we're doing is good.

1:09:38But that is one that I felt like was almost too short. I could have done another hour. So many things didn't talk about. Maybe we'll do a part two. I love Greg. Greg's book, All the Best for the Future, is out now. Right, I cannot tell you how much you're going to want to be back in next week. We have got someone really creative and thoughtful and kind and funny on the show next week. And I think it will put some real humanity back into the world at a time when it is really needed. until then a huge thanks again to Greg to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you you are gorgeous

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