Happy Place Hotline: Ending friendships and embracing hibernation

0:01Fearne Cotton: Hi everyone, it's Fearne Cotton here. Welcome to Happy Place. It is a joy to have you here, quite frankly. Now this is exciting. We're doing something new. We're doing something different. Today, I am officially cutting the ribbon and opening the Happy Place hotline. It's a brand new thing. And this hotline is there for you to use at your free will, however you desire. We've got a brand new email address. It's hello at happyplaceofficial.co.uk. So you can email us whenever you want. Maybe, right, you've listened to one of our regular episodes. It could be an interview with someone and there was something that you took away from that episode and you thought, oh, I really want to say my bit on this.

0:45Fearne Cotton: Or maybe it's something going on in your world that you just want to tell us about. Or maybe there's a question that you want to ask me. or there is a dilemma that you think I might be able to help you with. Good luck. But you can basically email us anything and I will read out your messages right here and discuss them. It's going to be so fun. I can't wait. You can send in pictures of things like whatever you like. Quite frankly, there are no rules. Just don't call me a twat. Like don't use it to send abuse. Thanks. um so let's get to your messages oh by the way obviously you can also dm us on instagram that is like a super easy way but if you've got a lengthy you want to write a proper email this is the time get your paper and quill out and right away right let's have a look we've got some lovely messages here hello fern i absolutely loved your episode with makita hearing you both reconnect and talk so openly about the friendship you might have had if you hadn't both made assumptions about each other really stayed with me.

1:48Fearne Cotton: It made me think about one of my own friendships. I've been friends with someone for nearly 20 years. We've been through so much together from relationships, breakups, work, children, family stuff, all the different stages of growing up. She's someone who knows so much about me and I'd always assumed would be friends for life. But recently I've started wondering whether we're actually still friends because we genuinely like each other or just because we've been friends for so long. There hasn't been a big falling out or dramatic betrayal. I sometimes just feel judged by her. And if I'm honest, I probably judge her too.

2:23Fearne Cotton: Hey, hats off for saying that. Because sometimes it's so easy to be like, I feel judged. Look, we're all doing it. We're kind of all doing it all the time and also judging ourselves all the time. I would say like, give yourself a break on that one, because it is being a human. The email continues, I find myself comparing our lives, feeling competitive when I don't want to be, and occasionally coming away from seeing her, feeling worse about myself. Now that I don't think is great because in my opinion, and I think now in my mid-40s, I don't want to ever leave someone's home feeling shitter than when I arrived or like go for dinner with someone and come away thinking, oh God, I feel crap about myself.

3:09Fearne Cotton: I really don't want to do that. I don't want to waste my time or the other person's. So I would see that as a bit of a sign for sure, but let me carry on reading. But I don't really know whether this is actually about her or whether I've created a version of our friendship in my own head. Part of me wants to have a really honest conversation and say, are we actually all right? Because I feel like something has changed. But another part of me worries that by bringing it up, I'll create a problem that might not even be there. How do you know when a friendship needs an honest conversation and a fresh start or when it's reached the end of its natural life?

3:43Look, I think the fact that

3:44Fearne Cotton: you've even bothered to write all this down is a massive sign that something needs to happen. And what I want to say is a massive thank you for your lovely words about the episode with Makita because that episode, that for me, that wasn't a podcast. It was not a podcast. There was not one bit of me that was sat having that chat with Makita that thought, oh, I hope this is a good episode of Happy Place. We both really needed to do that. And it took us 20 years, took a really long time to get to that place where either of us could get to that point. Here's what I'd say, and this is from my experience of that very beautiful and liberating conversation that I had with Brilliant Makita.

4:29Fearne Cotton: I think you've got to know that if you reach out to try and have a conversation or a meeting of minds, that they're going to receive it well. I reached out to Makita initially and I wouldn't have done that maybe 10 years ago because I probably wasn't in the right headspace and I don't think she would have been in the right headspace. So I probably wouldn't have worded my reaching out text as I did as a 45 year old woman. And she may not have received it in the way that she so generously did. So I think you've got to know that you can word it in a way that there's no emotional loading going on.

5:10Fearne Cotton: You're just stating facts like, I feel there's something up. I would love to have a chat with you. How do you feel about it? But you've got to have an inkling that that person's not going to blow up and react badly. There is a risk. Like I said this to Makita on stage, there is a risk that you will be rejected. For me, it would have been again, but I thought nothing to lose. It's better than it is. And I think the same goes for you. You don't want to be in this friendship where you feel like you're walking on eggshells or you come away feeling like shit about yourself. I would say it's worth the risk.

5:45Fearne Cotton: And if you're reaching out text or email is received badly, that's probably the information that you need. That's probably the, I would say data that you need. You can collate the data. The data is this person does not want me in their life and you can then do what you need to from there. But luckily with Makita, when I sent that text, I sent a message saying that I had loved a piece of content that she had put out where she was speaking very vulnerably about how badly the press had treated her and it massively landed with me. And I thought, I'm just going to send a message simply saying, thank you for putting that out there.

6:22Fearne Cotton: I feel exactly the same. And that luckily then created this bridge where we could start talking as two humans rather than, she hates me. She thinks I'm uncool. And Makita thinking, I hate her. She's all this stuff that I think. We definitely needed to create that bridge. I reckon if you think your mate is going to receive that text, that message well, do it. You've got literally nothing to lose. And look, life is too short to be hanging out with people or in spaces with people that make us feel bad. There's just no point. Hang out with good people that make you feel great. But have that chat because there could be like a big bit of repair could be done for your friendship.

7:04Fearne Cotton: And I would love to hear that that happens. So let us know. Let us know what happens. And oh, I really hope it goes well. I really do. And me and Makita both said when we came off stage, we both really hope that that chat is breeding ground for other people to go, oh my God, why have I never said that thing to that person? It felt like a bit of a mission on both our parts. So I'm glad that you've messaged and said that. That makes my heart sing. So thank you. Next up. Hello Fern. I listened to your episode a couple of weeks ago where you spoke about your tortoise, George, and how you feel like you're in hibernation.

7:46Fearne Cotton: I can't agree more. I hate this time of year, but I particularly hate the clocks going back. It doesn't matter what I do, if I try to fall back a week earlier than everyone else or pretend absolutely nothing has changed, for weeks my body acts like I'm jet-lagged from a transatlantic flight. On top of that, it gets so dark. It's really depressing and I just don't know what to do with myself. I think I'll be morning summer until the clocks change back again next year. I've been asking all my friends how they cope, but I'm keen to know if you found anything that has helped. Oh, this is such a great subject.

8:22Fearne Cotton: I get the jet lag thing. I mean, I'm fucking tired all the time. Like I slept so badly last night. My daughter woke me up at three and then I just, I couldn't get back to sleep. Um, so feeling jet lagged is shit. And I don't know, I, the only thing I'd say about that is don't write the day off. Like today when I got up, I was like, Oh, this is a fucking nightmare. I've got two podcasts to do and I don't have it in me and it's going to be a shit show. It's all gone fine. It's all gone fine. So don't write the day off is what I'd say if you feel jet lagged and tired. Like you'll ride it out, you'll be okay.

8:59Fearne Cotton: On the getting dark bit, I'm perhaps not the person to ask advice for because I love it. I love that I've got every excuse to put my pyjamas on at half four and that is deemed totally acceptable because it is the winter and it is nighttime. So all of that pressure of the summer of like, you must be making the most of the sunshine and getting out and doing all the stuff. for me that is a relief like I love it I absolutely love it I don't mind it being dark in the mornings I find it very cozy I am a lamp person so I don't put the overhead lights on ever it's a thousand lamps there are so it's like a lamp festival there are so many lamps lamps over little candles I'll make it all super super cozy I love it now what I would say is read Katlyn Moran's latest book.

9:51Fearne Cotton: It's called How to Be Hopeful. Am I getting that right? Reasons to be hopeful? Something to be hopeful. Sorry Katlyn for not remembering. I literally read two books a week. So Amelia's going to check. It's something about being hopeful. But read it, regardless of the title. It's got a beautiful book cover with Katlyn sat in as a unicorn. It's brilliant. And she talks exactly about this. So she used to have the same thing where she dreaded the winter. She dreaded the clocks going back. She dreaded it getting dark early. It was like her worst, worst nightmare. And then this leads you to my second book recommendation, which I do know the name of.

10:30Fearne Cotton: It's a book called Wintering by Catherine Newman. Now I'm questioning, have I got her name right. It's Catherine Newman, isn't it? Catherine May. Fuck. It's Catherine May. This is the jet lag bit kicking in. Okay. So all of my words are a bit jumbled today, but I will get there in the end. Don't write the day off. So Wintering by Catherine May and Kathleen Moran's book is called How to be Hopeful. So to be clear, the two book recommendations, Kathleen Moran, How To Be Hopeful. Catherine May, Wintering. In Wintering, there is just a lot of chat about embracing the winter and honouring it and basically honouring that all of us need to retreat at times.

11:15Fearne Cotton: And it can be a bit of a metaphor for life that if we just go, go, go, go, go in this like very patriarchal model, which just sees us like working 24 seven, never, ever being uncontactable and just being on all the time. It's not good for any of us. And actually, we need to have moments of retreat and of hibernation. and I think winter is the only time I feel really like I can do that because I do give myself a hard time like I'm not doing enough I'm not achieving enough I'm not pushing myself enough and in winter I just exhale a bit and think oh my god I can just put my PJs on and watch an old movie and eat soup like I fucking love it but read her book because she's got lots of really interesting metaphors and ways of looking at why winter and wintering is really essential.

12:10Fearne Cotton: And Caitlin Moran basically said after she read that book, she started loving it. She started cold water swimming all year round. So she's like getting in the ponds in London, in North London, cracking the ice, getting in, embracing that pain and that sort of awful feeling and then feeling her skin get all tingly and feeling all invigorated and alive afterwards and finding reasons to really enjoy that time of the year. I think there are some really beautiful bits about winter, getting cozy, hunkering down, eating casseroles with loads of people at lunchtime, like just all that cozy hygge, is it hygge, hygge, hygge, that thing, like Scandi vibes of just lots of coziness and blankets and thick woolly socks and oh like bring it on.

12:58Fearne Cotton: So I think try and find a few little reasons why you could start to fall in love with winter, but read Wintering by Catherine May and read How to Be Hopeful by Katlin Moran. And I really think that they will both be great sources of comfort for you and reasons to get through this part of the year and find some glimmers of goodness within the shit bits. You've got this. You've got this. We can do it. We can do winter together. Look, we live in the UK. Most of you do anyway. And, you know, we just, we have no choice because the weather is shit. Okay, the weather is shit. The weather is shit from October till May, sometimes June.

13:34Fearne Cotton: Hello, Fern. I'm currently fully embracing spooky season. We have Halloween decorations up, have been collecting conkers, making lots of different soups. Now you're talking, my favourite. Although my kids seem to think the only way to celebrate autumn is to visit every pumpkin patch within a 50 mile radius. And that's actually made me think about something that I struggle with as a mum. Now the weather is getting colder and the days are getting shorter. I feel like I'm constantly trying to think of things to do with the kids. A pumpkin patch, the cinema, soft play, a day out here, an activity there.

14:06Fearne Cotton: It all adds up so quickly and I sometimes feel guilty if we have a weekend where we haven't done anything particularly exciting. I think there's a little voice in my head saying you need to make memories, you need to make their childhoods magical but I don't want that to mean constantly spending money or feeling like I have to entertain them every minute of the day. I just want them to look back and remember having a really happy childhood. So I wonder what your approach to this is. How do you make those cold dark weekends feel special without spending a fortune? Are there things you do at home that your kids genuinely love?

14:38Fearne Cotton: The kinds of things they might actually remember more than an expensive day out? What a good question. Because we are in strange parenting times. I talk about this all the time with my friends. There's seven of us all grew up together and we've all got kids of varying ages and there was just so much pressure that we are all at boiling point and many of us constantly say why are we not parents in the 90s or even better the 80s where parenting involved feeding your child and keeping them alive. That was the list. Two things. There was no other stuff. Kale hadn't been invented. Kale didn't exist.

15:24Nope.

15:25Fearne Cotton: We had like boiled veg, okay? And I lived exclusively off of pizzas and Finder's crispy pancakes, okay? That's what I lived off. I'm live. I'm okay. These days, the pressure of like what our kids are eating, what our kids are doing, where our kids, what our kids' extracurricular activities are, it's fucking nuts. And it's exhausting. And I completely agree with you that, yes, there's, I think we do have this sort of feeling, this sense that maybe our parents didn't like, we must make the best memories, probably because of Instagram and like highlight reels of people parenting that looks like it's all going so well.

16:06Fearne Cotton: It's not. We know it's not. Parenting is messy, full stop. Parenting is great. It's hard. It's amazing. It's fucking dreadful. It's everything. Parenting, it's everything. It's not highlights reel. It's certainly not highlights reel. And there are shit days where it's raining. You didn't put the cinema in time, so you can't get a ticket. All of their friends are off doing things and it's just you and the kids. And I'm a single parent. So I hear you on those days. You're like, oh, how am I going to get to 9pm? what are we going to do? Also, I'm parenting one teenager who's 13 and then an 11 year old.

16:42Fearne Cotton: The 13 year old, it's definitely trickier because he doesn't like many of the things that I like doing. So he will often go off and do his own thing. He loves playing golf. And I'm really happy if he's happy. I don't feel like there should be this pressure that we have to spend every second with our kids together. He would way rather be with his friends at golf. And I want to give him that space now he's 13 give him a little bit of independence that's what I had at 13 I went to my local dance club for hours on end and I had the best time being independent so I think definitely like if you've got kids of that age that can go and do their own thing let them let them go and do it let them have that space and freedom to do it and they always come back you know you can have a nice dinner all together at the end of the day that's definitely what I'm trying to focus on more So less, I must find something that Rex wants to do and more, he'll go off, he'll play golf.

17:35Fearne Cotton: And then we can have a lovely meal together at the end of the day. Maybe watch a TV show together. But even that is a big ask of that age. Also, my daughter, who's 11, it's definitely easier because we like doing all the same stuff. So like last weekend, we made biscuits, which was so fun. We made Oreos from Nara Smith's book. And I thought, oh, this is going to go so badly wrong as if I can make an Oreo. We bloody did it. And it was so fun. So that's always a good one for us baking. And we kind of like watching the same sort of shows. We love Bake Off. We love Traitors. There is nothing wrong with getting a big blanket and cozying up with a bunch of snacks and watching a film or a TV show on a shit day.

18:17Fearne Cotton: Like, don't feel guilty that you haven't left the house. Who cares? Like, it's okay to have the odd day like that. I would say it's less about finding things that are going to keep everyone entertained and more about just having an average day that isn't about making memories. Like they probably will remember all of that normal stuff. I remember loads of those days from my childhood where like me and my mum would just go to Wembley Market. It was like my favourite thing to do in the world on a Sunday and I would have five pounds and I would try and buy as many shitty crop tops as humanly possible.

18:50Fearne Cotton: And that was just like a day, like a morning at the market, which was like in Wembley Stadium car park. I think take the pressure of yourself. You don't have to be nailing it and creating magical memories every weekend. Just have days where you watch films, you stay in your pyjamas, you have a bit of food together. That's enough. That is enough. And you're doing brilliantly because I bet no one has said that to you recently because mums just have to do all the shit jobs and no one ever says well done. So well done you. Well done you for being a mum. Well done you for parenting. It's Bloody hard.

19:23Fearne Cotton: Thank you so much for sending in your lovely messages. Really enjoyed that. The Happy Place hotline is so open, like you wouldn't believe. Send in whatever you want. Maybe it's something we talked about today and you want to send in a message about it or a picture or whatever. Whatever it is, let us know. Tell us how you're doing. Tell us what you're up to. Tell us how your life is. That's what I want to hear. Remember the email address.

19:51Fearne Cotton: It's can slide in to my dms if you want probably the happy places dms because um an actual brilliant human uh will be monitoring that probably you amelia right yeah uh rather than me who can't work any of it out so um dm amelia and we'll get to your messages and read as many out as we humanly can on the next episode of the happy place hotline thanks so much for listening i'll see you soon

20:21Thank you.

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