“I have no interest in mediocrity!” Adam Pearson on having confidence to be extraordinary

0:00Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that really celebrates individuality. Today I'm chatting to Adam Pearson. To embrace the normals, to accept mediocrity. I have no interest in being mediocre. I just find it such an unremarkable word. What kid stands up on career day, looks their teacher dead in the face and says, just want to be normal? You know, wife, two kids, dog, 36 grand a year. That's what I want, Mrs McMullen. Yep, and then sits back down again. Why would you feel normal if you were born to be extraordinary? Oh, crikey. Do you know what? I'm not going to lie.

0:40I've been burning the candle at both ends. I'm so tired today. Do you know what I've been doing, though, this year? I've been pushing myself out of my comfort zone. And I've been doing a lot more socialising than I normally would at this time of year. And I'm really enjoying it. And what I'm finding is, yes, I might be a little bit ropey around the edges today. Shouldn't have drunk Negronis on a Monday night. Shouldn't. Shouldn't have done that. But I don't regret it. It was so fun. And I had such a laugh with some friends. And I need to do that. I need to let loose. And actually, what this time of year where work's really busy and there's all this sort of social stuff going on, it's made me remember that it's all right that life can be a bit messy.

1:21It can be a bit messy. I can wake up and have big eye bags and be a bit of a hot mess trying to get the kids breakfast together and just about scramble through work because I shouldn't be so serious all the time. Just being all serious and doing work stuff. So that's where my head's at. I'm embracing the mess. I'm feeling a bit bloody tired. But actually, I'm really happy. And that's all that counts. It's all about dropping the perfection, isn't it, at the end of the day. I hope you're feeling all right. And if you're not, it doesn't matter. you might feel better tomorrow or next week when we're back here so don't worry about it so let's talk about Adam Pearson who I absolutely adore he's a brilliant human being he was born with neurofibromatosis and is now an award-winning disability rights campaigner actor and speaker bloody good actor he's presented a number of incredible documentaries including Adam Pearson Freak Show and The Ugly Face of Disability Hate Crime and the latest film he's starring in which I urge you to see is called A Different Man.

2:23This film is so beautiful. And as you'll hear when I chat to Adam, I loved his character, Oswald. He plays this really vibrant, vivacious, hilarious character who bursts onto the screen. And actually, as many, many of the reviews have said, he is the star of the show. There's something so utterly charming about his character in this film. You're going to absolutely love it. We talk about a lot in this chat. We talk about systemic ableism within film and TV, which is still rife. And I think that really hit home in this chat. We talk about being bullied at school. And we look at the point in life where dreaming of being extraordinary, when you have those childlike dreams, when that gets beaten out of you, which I'm sure we've all experienced at some point.

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4:40General therapy can help with some things, but for OCD, it can actually make things worse. That's why I want to tell you about NoCD. NoCD is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. Their licensed therapists specialize in ERP, the most effective treatment for OCD. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, go to NOCD.com to book a free 15-minute call. They are here to help. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.

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5:40Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

6:03Adam Pearson, I'm so happy to have you on the podcast and just to get to hang out with you and chat to you today. It's a pleasure to be here. So we actually met at St James' Palace, which makes it sound quite important, actually. We are important. We are important. We are important. But we met there and we had such a good chat and we've stayed in touch, which I'm so glad about. Yeah. But so much has happened since. This was maybe three years ago. And one of the big successes has been this extraordinary film, A Different Man, that you've co-starred in, which I just found almost indescribable. It's such a unique film with some really brilliant messages and surprising moments.

6:44And it's thoroughly entertaining as well. This role was actually written for you by the director and writer Aaron, who you've been working with for some time. Now, Aaron grew up with a cleft palate. So he has an understanding of facial disfigurement. That must have made the process much more interesting for you. I'm imagining that you could have those deep conversations before starting this film. Yeah, absolutely. I think often when we see this stigma in movies, it's written by people who don't have experience of it, be it personal or even adjacent experience. And the portrayals tend to fall into one of three archetypes, the villain, the victim or the false hero.

7:34and so because Aaron's had that lived experience and has grown up watching movies he understands the stereotypes knows how to subvert them and wants to almost change the narrative and we, me and Aaron met in 2017 when I did his second film Change for Life he'd written this film and he'd written this character called Rosenthal who was British had neurofibromatosis type one with no knowledge that I even existed and then he went and saw me in under the skin I was just like that's that's Rosenthal and reached out to my people and he didn't even know if I could like act because I'm only in under the skin so like a whoop stitch yeah but that is an iconic scene in that film it's become iconic but also I've had no acting training business economics is my background academically so it's a case of all can can he do this only one would have signed out whack him in a really big film yeah right and then you then you're on a plane going to new york to shoot change the life and uh i should have read the script before i got on the plane but i had seven hours to kill so that's when i did it and you know that did well and we toured with that and then he asked me if I'd work with him again and I had no problem being like ding-ding round two, absolutely.

9:00And then I got the script for a different man in March 2022. Read it straight away, loved it. I was like, because I know Aaron, I know how he writes and how he thinks. And then in July we're in, back in NYC, shooting again. It's so brilliant. And obviously because of how he writes and because of how you have a personal relationship with him. You've created this incredible character that isn't the victim. Isn't any of those stereotypes that you've talked about? Those themes are explored, but you are this incredibly electrifying character who comes on screen singing karaoke, is the life and soul of the party.

9:41What was it like to play Oswald and to bring that character to life? As an actor, you always want to show range and flex a little. And the reason, or one of the reasons Aaron wrote that character in that way is, he thought my performance in Chainsaw Puppets Rosenthal went really underrated, because I'm quite a shy introvert, and people assume that's who I am anyway. And anyone that knows me, or gets to know me, will sign up very quickly, nothing could be further from the truth. We shot a lot of Chains in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and we we sound like this this bar and we had like a lot of disabled kind of cast members so all these out-of-towners with disabilities walking into a bar people like kind of look around and like what the hell's going on and then i i panicked and went this is my bar now and everyone went with it i love it yeah yeah yeah just completely made the statement and yeah just a rock-up flex be more myself with the volume tone way, way up way, I loved it like yoga saxophone the yoga bit I mean you're wearing a caftan walking through the park carrying a yoga man is that what it's called?

10:55I keep calling it a muumuu but yeah I know there's a name for it it could be a muumuu muumuu caftan but it's oh it's just it's such a great character and Oswald brings so much to the film now of course you mentioned three really successful films that you've been in and you're having this extraordinary very varied successful career in acting yet we know that there is still so much systemic ableism within the tv and film industry I don't feel like the surface has even been scratched with that one and we're not looking at that enough at all I've heard you say in interviews before out of 29 Oscar nominated films with the portrayal of disability, only two of the actors out of that line-up were actually disabled.

11:44And if you were to change the metrics to race or gender, it would be instantly seen as utterly unacceptable. So what's going... I mean, it seems like it shouldn't fall on your shoulders or anyone's shoulders to have to go, I need to fix this. It just shouldn't be happening in the first place. No, but on one hand, there is the argument that it isn't the job of the disabled community to fix a problem they didn't create. No. But then if someone doesn't do it, no one's going to. And I think no one's going to wake up in the morning and suddenly have it figured out. And so I think there's a lot of polarising and divisive rhetoric at the moment around any kind of minority politics.

12:29So I want to kind of get into the middle and be like, OK, let's all talk about this. let's all stop shouting ableist and snowflake from our own little ivory towers and just come and have a conversation. I mean, equally, equality isn't something I will negotiate. How we get there absolutely is. Because it's going to take time, and I'd rather take a bit longer with it and get it right than rush it through and have it have a lot more short-term aims than would be necessary. and I think again it's heading in the right direction and we need more people behind the scenes as well as on screen because it's a cyclical thing if we're not getting it right off camera we're never going to get it right on camera and we also need just clear pathways to progression for disabled talent in the industry there's a lot of schemes that put disabled people in jobs but not a lot that will put disabled talent in careers and there's a world of difference between those two things so yeah I'd encourage people disabled people not to take no for an answer and be as resilient and persistent as you feel you can be on any given day because it's not a continuum even I have like good days and bad days I'm just not in the mood to fight or have the chats or go on x that day and then if you're at the top um look for disabled talent because because they're out there the idea that there haven't been any oscar-winning disabled actors because they're simply not there is is ridiculous i could cast most of disney's upcoming projects from my mobile yeah so yeah let's not kid ourselves let's let disabled talent get in the room audition and like blow the ball up soft casting directors and wind up on screen because I don't go too far the other way either I don't want to put disabled people in jobs that they're not ready for I think if you can't do the job you shouldn't get a job I have no problem with that statement whatsoever but it's the lack of opportunity that riles me and also if you are on screen It's also looking at the tone of the role.

14:52And, you know, your portrayal in A Different Man is a prime example of that, where you're not playing any of those tropes that we've discussed. You're playing this vibrant character who happens to have facial disfigurement. It's not because of, it's not the reason that you're there. You're just this amazingly vibrant character. And it's casting people in a role to play a character that fits into the story without question. Yeah, where the disability isn't the raison d 'etre for them being there. I want to get into doing more films just because I'm bloody good at my job. Yeah. And not because I need a disabled guy.

15:30What if we write a character who wasn't disabled, but then someone saw me and thought, cool, let's have him be that character. And we're slowly getting there. I think guys like Peter Dinklage have done the world of good for disabled actors in the industry. and then you've got legends like Marley Matlin who've been killing it since the 80s. But I still would like to see more who are in good roles with good directors. And the word that really grinds my gears is when people say, oh, but isn't it a risk? And it's like, no, I'm not a risk, I'm an asset. And so let's, you know, part that for one second and yeah, there's all these excuses that are slowly starting to wear thinner and thinner and thinner the more we see disability on screen.

16:26Yeah. And eventually the dam's going to break and there's going to be loads of disabled talent coming in. I mean, hopefully not too many because I've still got to work. Just a few. Yeah. Enough where I'm still the best but not too many where everyone works out I'm an idiot, right? Okay, we're going to bear that in mind. I mean, one of the big problems is something that you have touched on already, and that is the fact that we're still seeing in films most famously, James Bond, the bad guy, the villain with facial scars, disfigurement. And that's become just something that, you know, for years we're all just so accepting of, and it's not okay, but there doesn't seem to be much progression there.

17:09And, you know, we know there are many people challenging this. Jono Lancaster, who's sort of in our little Happy Place family and a friend of mine has done really great work. I love Jono. I love Jono. And he's really called out specific TV shows for doing it very recently. Like SNL did it not long ago. Yes, with that sketch. That stupid sketch. That Immutable Man or whatever it was called. It was just really not okay. But I don't know. I'm sort of lost for words because it shouldn't be happening still. Well, it's three in a row now for Bond, which in a franchise that's made such significant progress in terms of its portrayal women.

17:53Yeah. I don't know why we're still here with that. But I don't want to blanket ban it either. It's just there's no balance here. Where's the good guy or the hero or the disagreement? If we'd have had that running through it at the same time, I'd have much less of a problem with it. So it's sort of like the lack of balance to the whole thing. And it sort of has a real-world knock-on effect to how people like myself or Jono or, I don't know, Philip Swift or Sam Reck get perceived in the real world. because not everyone has that kind of cognitive dissonance to separate diction from reality. Not everyone in the moment can suspend their disbelief enough.

18:43And also we're all, whether we choose to admit it or not, products of our environment. And what we take in will affect what we put out. It's just psychology 101. Yeah, of course. Which is why this needs to change ASAP and these conversations, as I'm sure arduous as they are for you at times, because you're having to say things that are so unbelievably obvious, are important, because there will be people out there that are still casting those roles or haven't given it a thought and the ramifications of what that means for people. But then people don't know what they don't know, right? And it's all progress.

19:23And I go into these conversations with the attitude first time, every time. where every time I have it, I act like it's the first time I've said it. Because to the person I'm talking to, it's more than likely the first time they've heard it. So if I go in with a, oh, again, kind of attitude, then I don't think that's going to be convulsive of change. So, yeah, I think a little bit of patience goes a long way. And you win more friends with honey than you do with piss and vinegar. It's a fact. But also, you're putting that message out there by just being a bloody good actor and climbing the ladder of Hollywood or whatever ascent it is that you're on.

20:08Yeah, or trying to, like one day at a time. One day at a time. I think finally my mother believes I'm famous. Did that take some convincing? It took, I think Berlin when we did the international premiere with the massive red carpet, and it turned sort of like the pennies rocked. for her. That's so good. I mean, I loved watching your mum talk on your Horizons documentary, My Amazing Twin. She just seems like a lovely, brilliant woman. Yeah, she is. She's so lovely. She is, and it's good now because she saw me at my worst for about 21 years. So the fact she now gets to see me at my best is sort of like, yeah, you did it, mum.

20:50It's great. Yeah. It's so good. Let's talk about your twin, Neil. so he also has neurofibromatosis but it presents differently yeah so so talk to us about Neil's situation so Neil has short-term memory loss and and epilepsy so he needs to get himself in like really good routine so he like remembers to take his tablets and he's got to keep himself like really well regimented and he's also got that support network there with like you know me mum and like close friends that are aware but also have the time and the patience to to deal with it just to keep in check and be like oh have we done this today have we done this is this in in your like diary like the amount of money we spent on like technology and apps and things to try and like get him into good routines and some of it sticks some of it some of it doesn't but he does remarkably well under the circumstances.

21:52And that was for him discovered a little bit later down the line right because how old were you when when you were diagnosed? You were a small kid? Five yeah yeah we were both diagnosed at five but Neil's memory loss didn't become a sting until he was 14. We were out one night like a youth group and when we got home we couldn't remember where we'd been and we just thought at the time he's either tired because it had been a long long day or he was just like messing about you know having a bit of a joke with us all and then the next morning still very like forgetful and bacon and what have you and so then we took him for like scans and and what have you and and yeah here we are and I think kind of you know knowing what it is is like half a battle and then I think often I always say autonomy with anything is so important because once you know the devil that you're dancing with and the dance you're doing, you know what steps to take to bring the whole thing together.

22:56He seems to be really thriving. He's got a job that he's enjoying and he's making it work. Yeah, and he's also a nice guy. He seems lovely. He's the nice one out of the two of us. I think you're both pretty nice. I have my moments. Have you turned into a diva since you've been on all these red carpets? I've always been a diva. People just have time for it now. Your mum said in that documentary that you've both worn your disabilities with broad shoulders and that you both have a really good attitude to life and what you want to achieve. Where does that attitude come from? Is it your mum? Oh yeah, absolutely.

23:39And dad. I'd be the shell of the man I am. if it wasn't the two really supportive parents that wouldn't let me take no for an answer. That's so important. No, completely. Having that network is everything. You have something in common with me in terms of how your love and desire to work in TV was sparked. We were both in the audience of Live and Kicking as children. Yes, we were. It was one of the best days of my life. You had that experience. So talk to me about that. because for me it's one of my fondest memories. You're sitting in that studio, it's actual real life, you can't believe it. What went through your mind at that point when you were sat there?

24:18There were all these people there and all this whirring and clicking and TV was always fascinating to me as a kid. And then to see the mechanics of it happening live on something you would be watching at home anyway. And John Batman's over there, Emma Thornton's over there, there's Andy spelt with an I, Peter's over there, There's Trevor and Simon dressed like God and no one was doing pop videos with the boy band Two Thirds. Yeah. It was like wild. So brilliant. I had exactly the same thing. I was like, I want to do that. Yeah. I want to do that. So from that point, you know, like me, you're dreaming big.

24:57You know you want to work in TV. You actually started off researching and doing casting for TV shows initially. Yeah. Development, research and casting. And you went along to the audition or submitted to get an audition for Under the Skin as a joke? Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. I was casting series two of the Undateables at the time. And then the charity Changing Faces sent an email where they kind of, oh, yeah, this casting agency has been in touch. They're working on a new Johnson Glazer film. They want the guy with a disagreement to be in it. If you're interested, call this lady. and um as like a business grad from from brighton i've written like essays on dodgy blazer's adverts because i think he's a genius and so i was like well i've got to throw my name in right so like still sort of like jokingly because they're never gonna hire me i'm an idiot um yeah it all got really serious really quickly and you thought what at this point i was well whenever they go okay what we want you to do next is x i was like yep can definitely screw the hat up and so oh yeah can you just write a little bit about yourself and send it over and i didn't have time so i sent my cv and the opening line of my cv at the time was my name is adam pearson i'm the best in the world at what i do and no further explanation as to what i do and i loved that so they were like okay can you put a clip of yourself on youtube for us to see how you move and and talk and what have you and so if you go onto YouTube and type in meet Adam Pearson 2011 it's there.

26:33Brilliant. And I think I insult both my employers star signs, vegans and then a Yorkshire Terrier by piercing my arms out of nowhere and I was like yeah that'll get rid of them. Nope. And then had to go to the American church on Tottenham Court Road to meet Jonathan to one final farah. I had to cross one road, one road hit by a cab and broke my leg. What? And like, broke it, broke it. Like, knee and soot pointing different ways. And then adrenaline kicks in. And I call him. I'm like, hey, funny story. Been hit by a cab. I think my leg's broken. I'm still really keen. I think I'm not keen. I'm just going to be five minutes late.

27:11Five minutes late? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he goes, okay. And I call my mum. I'm like, hey, I've been hit by a cab. My leg's broken. And she's like, oh, see what you see, our son. Just really casually. Like, it was always going to happen in her head. and then fast forward 20 minutes i'm then under a taxi in just my pants because they've cut me out my clothes brilliant hi hi is giraffe ass on morphine and uh he's come down me and been like and he said and again i've only been told this by colleagues right because morphine yeah apparently the conversation went him bloody hand adam i didn't realize you did your own stunt work to which I apparently replied, mate, do I look like I've got a fucking stunt double?

27:57This is ridiculous. And my mum can verify it's true as well because it does sound like every Mr Bean episode at the same time. It's wild. And then he came to see me the next day in UCL and I was waiting for surgery. I've got like a rod and screws. Oh, God. Now, yeah, one step closer to Iron Man. And, yeah, Thornelly offered me the role. Wow. Wow. I mean, it's an extraordinary entry into the world of film. They say break a leg and I'm nothing if not a literalist. It's so good.

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29:26And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. There's the part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently, I know what funny is. Funny, he bought me a house, but I also know what isn't funny, OCD. I've lived with OCD my entire life and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented, unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety.

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31:12looking at your whole story and i've heard you talk on the horizon documentary about school being rough you not enjoying it being bullied and singled out and having a really rough time yeah how because there'll be people listening to this who don't feel confident who don't feel they can change the path and the course of their life because they don't feel like they've had a good start in life or that they've been bullied and that's stuck with them the rhetoric or whatever it is has stuck with them I'm sure it wasn't an overnight thing but how have you gone from a kid that was severely bullied at school to now someone who is really confident in their skill set is showing up to these huge high pressured gigs that you're working on feeling confident A, as you say, like one day at a time.

32:05You wake up every day and try and make that day better than yesterday, however yesterday looked. I think there's a lot to be said for freedom in forgiveness. Like, sure, school was rough, but eventually you've got to let that go, but also let them go from that as well. and now as a jaded 39-year-old man, I don't judge anyone on who they were when they were like 14, 15, 16 because it's unfair and unreasonable. And also, I wasn't perfect in those situations either. I still wouldn't want people to think the same way of me for the person I was when I was 14, 15, 16. And I heard this in a Wrestlers Hall of Fame speech.

32:54Right. Adam Copeland rest on the name Edge and rarely does stuff stick with me I'm not a guy that hears a quote and goes aha that is my mantra now but he said decide what to be and go be it oh I like that it's very straightforward yeah it's remarkably straightforward some might argue too straightforward but then sometimes we over complicate things I think we do all the time and we get in I get in my own head a lot when I'm like on my own. Yeah, me too. And I'm like, ah, and, you know, sometimes you've just got to take the plunge and jump in and be like, kind of, ah, but what if you suck it up?

33:37Just be like, well, then try again and suck it up less. I like that. Because, well, I think we look at failure as the opposite of success when actually it's the journey towards it. Yeah. And, you know, as long as you're sailing upwards, then, and say along failing upwards i guess requires you've got to have resilience because when you are you know down in the dumps on your knees it's it can be hard to pick yourself back up but that's something that you've consistently been able to do would you say i i reckon yeah and it's that comes from having a good network of people around you and um i was lucky that i had a good supporting family around me and I've gotten better at it as I've gotten older I think I spent most of my 20s trying to make loads of friends and then most of my 30s trying to make most of them leave and I think you need you need there are three kinds of people you need in in your life you need like a truth teller yeah you need like a confidant and you need a ride or die you need that one person you can call at like three in the morning like mid panic attack and the first thing I say is I'm on my way.

34:51Yeah so important and the truth teller is really important as well I think that's an important role for all of us to have a friend that we know isn't going to dispense advice that is based on their own nostalgia or just something they need to rant about it's they're going to tell you exactly what's going on. Yeah and what you need to hear and what you want to hear are two very different things. And I've got what one of my friends I love it a bit, Monica. If everyone's getting a bit too carried away with myself, she'll just be like, you're being a dick, wind your neck in. We all need a Monica. Everyone needs a Monica.

35:32We all need a Monica. She's keeping your feet firmly on the ground at this very exciting time. Absolutely. It's no bad thing. um in again i keep referencing the horizon documentary but i found it incredibly insightful and interesting and you say in the documentary it's very powerful scene the documentary that the word normal sends shivers up your spine oh completely it's a word that is thrown about extremely flippantly and inserted into all sorts of sentences in different contexts and, again, without much thought as to the damage it could be doing? Well, I don't even think it's doing damage. It's not the damage that it does that sends shivers up my spine.

36:19I just find it such an unremarkable word. Like, what kid stands up on career day, looks their teacher dead in the face and says, just want to be normal? You know, wife, two kids, dog, 76 grand a year. That's what I want, Mrs McMullen. and then sits back down again to embrace the normals to accept mediocrity and I have no interest in being mediocre No Yeah I love that You're so right Especially when we're kids it's really interesting to look at a child's mindset because you're so free of any social conditioning or there's not too much influence around that age and of course you do put your hand up in class and you want to be an astronaut or something that feels extraordinary and then that gets beaten out of you.

37:09Yeah, no, completely. I think I wanted to be Batman. I think that was my answer. There's still time. There is absolutely still time. And this is an era of Adam West's Batman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is an amazing thing. If you haven't seen it, look up Adam West's Batman and jump down that YouTube rabbit hole with me. I think he got banned from a town in America because he dragged his way through it. and he got like a 16 year band from somewhere oh my god in the 70s that's incredible i mean more power to him more power to him i mean and i've learned something new today as well which is good um i mean there will be people out there that still feel utterly paralyzed by the fact that they don't feel normal and this counters what we've just said but there will be people out there that feel that there is something inherently off with them.

38:03It could be something that's happened in the past, something mentally that's holding them back. Yeah, if you don't feel normal, then lean into that. Why wouldn't you feel normal if you were born to be extraordinary? Definitely clipping that up and listening to it daily. But that's the sort of, I don't know, I think that's the sort of attitude and it's an important sentence that we don't hear enough to lean into those parts of yourself that you don't feel are, you know, fitting into the norm. And then also just go find other people who aren't normal and, like, make friends with them. Like, some of my best mates are guys who I play, 30 grown men, by the way, who I play D &D with in the pub on, like, a regular basis.

38:48I love it. Yeah, you know, I'm a dark elf rogue assassin called Apollo Archon Jones. I don't even know what that means. My friend marks a red dragon ball called Smash. Yeah, that's how we get our... And it's also just a really good mental health break. Yeah. It means I have to think about work for six hours and can pretend to be someone else for a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And therefore my actions in-game, not in real life, have no consequences. That's quite freeing. It's absolutely freeing. D &D is one of the best mental health checks I have. That and Magic the Gathering. I love it. So, I mean, you seem to be striking a pretty good balance considering you've got so much going on work-wise and it's been an incredibly busy year of the press run for the film and I'm sure whatever's coming next, future-wise, it's pretty relentless.

39:43Yeah, we've got a few interesting things in at the moment that we're reading and negotiating and thinking about, which is exciting. But it's a case that I don't want to do too much. I think I've had to recently master the art of saying no. It's a hard one. And knowing when enough is enough and when I need a break. Yeah. So I'm off to New York in December for the Gotham Awards because the film's nominated and I'm nominated for supporting. Congratulations. Thank you. And we were asked to go to Sao Paulo Comic-Con straight after because it was a Latin American release of the film. And I was watching a nine-hour flight from New York and then an 11-hour flight back to London.

40:28And I'd already been on 16 planes this year. And I think at that point I need to just go home and do Christmas. Yeah, you really do. Like do December, see people. I've done no Christmas shopping and I'm normally done by now. Are you really? Okay, we're the same. I love starting. I'm like end of October. I've written the list. I'm starting. Oh, I start in January. In January? No, I start on Boxing Day. What? I get all my wrapping paper and Christmas cards on Boxing Day. Because the sales. Because they're pennies on the pound. Yeah, I haven't gone that far. I just clear out Card Factory in Croydon.

41:00Okay, I love this. Watch out, Croydon. Now, I start now-ish. But even still people say to me, that's not okay that you're starting this early. Oh, it's completely fine. I think it's completely fine. I've got a lot of people to buy for. Oh, right. And, like, my missus loves Halloween. Oh, right. You've just done a big Halloween then. And you've got also a lot of these, like, rarer Halloween stuff. Like, I'll put out, like, a limited run, like, Hello Kitty pop vinyl set. Oh, wow. Like a zombie, a vampire and a ghost. And I'll pick up all three and just hold one of them back for Christmas. Oh, nice.

41:35And be like, oh, I couldn't get all three. The zombies sold out quite quickly. And then I'll give it to them for Christmas and be like, ah. I love it. I love it. The other thing I wanted to talk to you about is fame. Yeah. Which is... It's a sickle beast, isn't it? It is. And it's a strange concept. And you've said previously, you know, you've never had the luxury of being invisible. Yeah. And you talk again in the documentary about people staring at you in the street. At worst, getting camera phones out to take pictures of you. So you've now got the double whammy of something that was pre-existing that you were having to endure, but now fame piled on top of that.

42:16Yeah, this is what, when we were discussing Sebastian's role in the film, we had a really big couple of Zoom meetings so he could ask me questions and I could be kind of frank with him. Because I think honesty is one of the really important parts of the creative process. and so unless I was willing to be emotionally enjoyable and visceral with him as my co-star we have no right to ask an audience to do the same thing when they watch the film. I think that respect between actors and audiences should always be mirrored and I was like, so you might not understand what it's like to have a disfigurement but I've always said the two ways to lose your anonymity in a society and to become public property and to either have a disagreement or become really famous.

43:05So you won't understand my upbringing of pointing, name-calling, everyone thinking that you owe them your entire medical story just because you exist. Though what you will understand is people thinking they owe you because they saw you in Gossip Guy, Tonya, or what have you. You know what it's like to have the press write things about you and who cares if it's true will deal with that later. And you do know what it's like to be kind of doxxed or followed home. So sort of lean into that a little bit. And then when you don't think you can lean into it anymore, lean into it more. What other stuff did you talk about on that call?

43:44I'm so interested because I think it can be difficult, especially when you don't know someone particularly well, to have a really frank conversation about things that you might both be worried to say or ask. How did that go? It went really, really well. We were both well-travelled men. He was born and raised in Romania. He and his mother got out of there when he was eight and went to somewhere else in Europe. I can't remember off the top of my head and I don't want to disrespect him by getting it wrong. and then they arrived in America when he was 12 and then it's a case of again recalibrating and adjusting to your new situation and finding what the new eves and flows to life are was any change him, Sebastian, moving from Romania to America as a kid when it's me and like ever changing medical circumstances you find the new thing you grieve what was lost and you celebrate the new circumstances and crack on with them and then we all saw like where's your favourite pizza place in New York what are your favourite films sort of connect on that deeper human level Joe's Pizza on Thornton in Manhattan is amazing is that the chosen one that's my one but it seems like you I've watched countless interviews of you together now talking about the film, it seems like there's a genuine friendship between you.

45:17Yeah, he's a great guy. How brilliant. He replies to my texts. I mean, I haven't texted him over the past couple of days because America's busy. It's quite busy. He's got other stuff to be worrying about, quite frankly. He does. He does. But I can really tell, and you can tell on screen, there's genuine love there. You really get each other. Yeah. Yeah, one time he had an event on at the BSI in the South Bank. He had an Apple TV film out. Shatter, I think it's called. It's sort of like Crash, like a long con, loads of little stories coming together. It's Crash meets Sin City. It's remarkably good.

45:59And I didn't know he was over. And my phone rings, his name comes up. And I'm like, oh, he's butted on me. And so I pick up anyone. I'm like, hello. And he's like, Adam, I'm in London. I've got a thing tonight. Come to the hotel. and then it hangs up. And I'm like, what thing? What hotel? I need more information to have this thing. I love it. It's so great. And it's just a remarkable bit of cinema. I'm sure that the whole team, all of you, feel incredibly proud of how it's turned out. Yeah, everyone. And I think that's a real collaborative thing. I think everyone rocks up wanting to make something special and beautiful.

46:40and we had all these weird time constraints as well. We shot the whole thing in 22 days. How come? Budget and also me and Renata had hard outs. Right, right, right. Renata had to go and film Hanley Undead, like a wonderful Norwegian zombie film and I had Celebrity Antiques Road Trip. Which is extremely important. Extremely important. Couldn't leave Katie Piper and David Harper waiting. Did you find any interesting antiques? um oh quite quite a few i mean i i lost which i was like none too happy about okay yeah yeah and then we we you still the ending before you know what's happening at the auction oh so we filmed three different takes well one where it's either one one if we drawn and one if catered one and so the one where i was like oh yeah oh and then the one that we drew was well at least we had a good day out and then the one that they they used was like catering like oh yeah and then i'm like just shut up over it by that point wishing you were still in new york quite frankly.

47:53Absolutely. I'm interested to know Adam, what is your happy place? Oh, my happy place. I don't think I have like one physical place. Though I am quite partial to the Lego store in Leicester Square. You've got a great love for Lego. I adore Lego. Is it the fact that it just makes you feel super chilled out? Yeah, it chills me out. You're making something, you're not staring at a screen. It's also like a challenge for me. I can't buy the little£9.99 things anymore. I think the last time I went, I spent a grand. Wow, on Lego? Yeah. What did you get? Like the Harry Potter Castle? What was it? No, I got the globe, the world map, the Lego NES CRT TV and the grand piano.

48:44Wow. The most intricate one I've done is a bonsai tree. Oh, I have that. That's the botanical set. It's beautiful, isn't it? Green or pink? Pink. Correct answer. Correct answer. It's such a good one. But it is. It's a beautiful way just to relax and chill out and switch off. There's no screens involved. Nope. And that set holds the record for the most frogs in one Lego set. There's so many frogs. So many frogs. Who knew the flowers were frogs? Well, because that blossom's called frog blossom. Oh, is that one? I didn't know that. Yeah. I've learned loads of things today. Yeah. The Lego store. And that's a pretty good, happy place.

49:18It is. But I'm also happy when I'm just with my mates. wherever I am as long as I'm in good company then that's my happy place me too I agree well as I'd imagined it was a joy talking to you and I'm just so happy to watch your career unfold and see where you head next it's all very exciting same with you thank you Adam I love Adam so much and he got me a bag of Percy pigs because when we were at Buckingham Palace no we were at St James's Palace weren't we when we were at St James's Palace the first time I met him We talked about Percy Pigster about half an hour. I don't even know why, but he remembered and bought me a pack, which were vegan and thoroughly enjoyed.

49:57Thanks, Adam. Now, are you part of our Happy Place book club on Instagram? I do hope so. Let me tell you what we're going to be reading in December. It's She Speaks by Dame Harriet Walters. You know her. She's been in Succession. She's the brilliant British, quite aloof mum, one of my fave characters. She's been in Killing Eve, and she's one of Britain's most esteemed Shakespearean actors. So having played most of Shakespeare's female characters in this new book, she's letting them speak their minds. And it's so brilliant and so clever and looks at so many amazing themes. With new parts of 30 Shakespearean women written in Shakespearean verse and prose, Harriet basically goes between the lines of the plays to let us hear what she imagines, sometimes quite playfully, sometimes probingly, what these women might really have been thinking or certainly would be thinking today.

50:47It says so much about that era in history and how women were viewed. And actually, it says so much about women today. It's really, really clever. And I'm always fascinated by actors that take on Shakespeare. It's not like you just do one Shakespeare play to prove a point. When you do Shakespeare, most Shakespearean actors, they go back. They do a big TV show, they go back. They cannot get enough. There's something addictive about it. And I'm keen to know more. so all of that is wrapped up in this brilliant brilliant book i would love if you read along with us it's a really good christmas present actually a good bit of gifting come over to our instagram at happy place book club and i'll catch you there and i will of course be back here next week with another brilliant human until then a massive thank you again to adam to the producer and ashka tate at happy place studios and to you your ace and extraordinary

52:09We'll see you next time.

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