“I know I’m safe but my body doesn’t!” Megan McKenna is coping with PTSD and sleep paralysis

0:00Fearne Cotton: Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me. I'm Fern Cotton. How are you doing? Shall we go back and experience some more summer magic at the Happy Place Festival? I think we should. Today I'm chatting to Megan McKenna. Do you know what? I was kind of riding with that stigma of mental Megan. Like that was my nickname. It was like mental Megan. At one point there was an advert of me in a stray jacket. You know, I had a brand off the back of it. I had my book called Malfi. I had a lip gloss line called Malfi. I was like, cool. I'm mouthy you know that's it it was making me money honestly I was like living my best life then I was like do you know what I'm a bit fed up with everyone thinking I'm this angry girl because I'm not so Megan McKenna arrived at the happy place festival seriously multi-skilling she brought her little toddler along who is the sweetest little kid if you follow Megan on Instagram you'll have seen her making cookies and cakes and all sorts with her little boy Landon he's so cute.

0:59Fearne Cotton: But my God, first of all, I was like, I forgot how hectic it is having a toddler. At one point, he just sort of ran into the woodland to never be seen again. I was like, oh my, I forgot. I forgot you have to stare at toddlers. I've got big kids now who actually, I'm like, please, can you get up and move? But toddlers don't stop moving. They're just running back and forth. And also, it took me back to those days where you're trying to juggle anything and have a toddler, like having a conversation with someone, let alone going on stage to do a podcast. So massive hats off to Megan for managing the juggle of bringing her kid to the festival.

1:38Fearne Cotton: I actually brought my kids to the Happy Place Festival in London. My kids are at a good age now. They're 11 and 13 and they just kind of wandered off. And then at some point my 13 year old was like he's going through a phase at the moment of calling me sister. He's like sister I want to go home and I'm like okay cool bye and he left and that was that yeah I'm getting called sister. I don't know what's going on there very odd. Now as you can see from Megan's Instagram having a child has changed so much for her her approach to life so we talked through all the big moments of her adulthood from being known as Mouthy Megan on reality TV to making beautiful country music and really gorgeous recipe content on her social.

2:26Fearne Cotton: She's got cookbooks out too. She's poured all of that passion for food into her latest cookbook, Love Gluten Free. And there have been a number of really difficult experiences in her life too, which I really appreciate her telling all of us in that talk tent about her relationship with alcohol, getting social anxiety and oh something that's really stayed with me because I could it was like palpable in the air talking about this awful robbery experience that she went through and how it's still massively affecting her today like it breaks my heart therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough it shows up in the smallest moments.

3:07You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.

3:48You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

4:22Fearne Cotton: Right, let's do it. This is the show.

4:45Fearne Cotton: How are you, lovely Megan? I am very, very good. Good. Thank you. How are you? I'm really good. Welcome to Happy Place Festival. It's our lovely gang here, our lovely crowd. This is lovely. So nice. It's so lovely. So you are partly in the UK, partly in Germany. Where have you come from today? The UK. Easier. I'm back and forth a lot, like a yo-yo. But it's just kind of become my norm. It's just part of my daily life now, travelling. Are you okay with that? Yeah. I mean, it could be a little easier with a baby, obviously. Yes. But he's good on the plane. He's kind of, he's used to it. He likes the airport.

5:23He loves planes. He wants plane toys now. It's all a thing. So I'm like, cool. list guy with it. I'm happy. I still love an airport. There's something about turning

5:31Fearne Cotton: up to Terminal 5 that makes me unbelievably thrilled. I love all of it. I'm going to pop to Boots, get my little bits and bobs, get a little magazine from Smiths. Heaven. But the worst bit when you've got, because how old's London now? Nearly two. Nearly two. Yeah. Why do we still have to put buggies through the conveyor belt bit for security? I know. That's nuts. I know. Especially if they're asleep. Oh, it's an absolute palaver. that's a nightmare a nightmare yeah coping I'm coping yeah look it's you know I kind of knew what I was getting myself into with Ollie my husband and he obviously plays in a German team so um but I didn't think we would be living in Germany when I had Landon so it's kind of it all kind of come at the same time and I guess the thing for um you know I've had friends who have moved away after they've had kids for various reasons.

6:23Fearne Cotton: The hardest bit from their point of view would be you're starting again in terms of friendship, support. You don't have your old school friends or your mates from work or whatever to rally around and to be there. Have you found that hard? Yeah. We've actually moved now to Berlin. So before we was in a place called Bremen and it was a much more smaller town in Germany. And yeah, it was difficult with like just cool spots. you know like coffee spots and lunch spots it was just there's like three in the whole you know like good ones so now I feel like in Berlin it's a little bit more trendy there's a few more parks but you know I've got like one good friend there you only need like one gal I suppose and then look there's mums in the park but obviously there is a language barrier yes how is the German not good right no okay not good and it's it's a really hard language to learn yeah but I was like what about if it was in Spain because I wouldn't mind doing a bit Spanish you know but yeah it's tricky it's hard so hats off that you've just you've got stuck into it and you're doing it and you're making it work yeah and also I mean I met your little boy backstage he is just so adorable and you've been on and you've been very public about this a real journey a fertility journey to get to this point to have your little boy how did that journey kick off what were the initial thoughts and and how how did it progress for you it basically with landon i always wanted to freeze my eggs it was something that was i suppose being in the industry and i hadn't found the right person and i was getting i turned 30 and i was i don't know i just felt a little bit unsettled with it and my mum was like have you ever thought about freezing your eggs and then i all of a sudden met ollie and it all kind of happened all at once and then you know you do your thing and you start let's have a baby and blah blah blah and just something just fell off you know you just you just know you have like a feeling so I thought I'd go and get checked and my womb lining was thin so it made sense because I had all the tests and stuff and everything was kind of working fine in my body I just needed to have a thicker lining for the embryo to stick so I mean it is insane what they can do it is insane I see everything on a screen I actually see Landon get put in me.

8:44Wow. Like live on the screen like this when I was laying there. And they have this, they're just so advanced of everything now also. They have this thing called embryo glue and they made sure they put embryo glue in. Yeah, it was crazy. And then I basically just didn't move for two weeks. I was like, they were like, you can go places. And I was like, I was so nervous because I feel like I'd had this horrendous four months of having this condition called ohss which is overhyperstimulation of your ovaries i'm not sure if many people know about it but oh it's awful basically you're it's like you're pregnant but

9:20Fearne Cotton: there's nothing in there and what this is something you've experienced long term since what teenage years no literally in the space of having the fertility journey yeah while i was injecting and making my womb lining thicker i got ohss which delayed everything was hospitalized my ovaries were like so overgrown obviously they can rupture and I had fluid in my tummy and it was just an extra thing that I didn't need no to fall pregnant and also it's stressful you know we've probably all of us have either experienced it ourselves or had mates yeah you know gone through the IVF route of things or otherwise and it is stressful because there's that pressure and also with our bodies a lot of the time we are out of control in in that situation there's only so much you can do and people will tell you unhelpful things like you've just got to relax I know stressed or whatever which makes you even more stressed did you find it stressful very it was stressful um but I couldn't have done it really without my mom like my mom is I'd say I call my mom 50 times a day do you yeah because I don't know what it is I think she's always been there for me through my career and like yeah and she just knows everything about me like everything she's like my best friend and through that whole journey I would be Ollie works a lot Ollie's away a lot and you know I was doing a lot of the pregnancy some weekends completely on my own or him being away and I would be ringing my mum and being in the supermarket I've got a twinge something's wrong I've got to put the shopping bags I'm just leaving her I was like I don't know what to do you know I was really like that of course and then I started to have some pregnancy acupuncture and just really calm and try and do so I was doing meditation and it really helped so I was doing nighttime meditation with this thing that they gave me on this tape about the baby growing in your body and I really felt it helped yeah so it was lovely yeah whatever helps calm your brain yeah so when you're calling your mum is your mum pretty good with say you've got like you're panicking about something or there's a crisis is she what's her response to that well she's like firstly calm down because I'm normally a bit worried and then she's like listen this isn't that bad let's just think about this let's just what's the worst that can happen here yeah um and then she'll talk me through it and then she'll let me kind of vent a little bit of how I feel about the situation and then she'll be like okay well let it's not that bad so how do you feel now and then we kind of talk a little bit and then I feel a little bit better that's so lovely yeah no she's she's my therapist I suppose great and she's free she's free even better that's so great yeah I love her yeah I think It's really nice that you've got that support that, you know, whatever's going on, you can call her.

12:04Fearne Cotton: No judgment. Yeah. She's going to say the right thing. And she does tell me what's right and what's wrong as well sometimes. She'll be like, Megan, you're being ridiculous. You know, stop. And you can take that all right? Yeah, I can take it all right. But, you know, we're like best mates as well, me and my mum. We've had our moments when I was pregnant. You know what it's like with your hormones. You can be a little bit touchy. Yeah. But apart from that, we're very much tongue in cheek. She's a true East Ender. I love it. I love it. And how does she feel about your career and how, you know, because I know that initially you are, you've got the most beautiful voice.

12:38Fearne Cotton: Thank you. And you're very into country singing. And that was originally your goal. And then you went off piste to reality TV. You've swerved back now to country music, but you've been on a roller coaster with the whole thing. How has she, what's her sort of vision of that been? When I got, because I actually went to theatre school my whole life, like I trained at ArtsEd and I had an amazing time growing up through theatre school. And then I was doing like girl bands and everything and I was auditioning for everything really. And it's hard to crack the music industry. And it was only when I'd had my heart broken and went and done a season in Marbella, I got contacted by MTV.

13:21and to be honest I thought it was fake when they reached out to me and they were like can you come and meet us in a club and I was like really is that how they audition people in a club so I went and they it was real you know they were there they were watching me mingle in the night and obviously I was a little bit I don't know how to word it you know a bit crazier back in the day we've all been there babe we've all been there look um you know I'd obviously was really drunk but it obviously got me the next step so when I went and had the meetings my mum was like not sure about this you know you've trained your whole life do you really want to do reality tv I don't know if it's right for you and I'd just come out of a long-term relationship so I probably wasn't in the best frame of mind to be doing show about relationships but I did think I was going on a show a similar format to are you the one where you meet new people not knowing I was going into a show about all my history of my exes and people that had slept with my exes so obviously that's quite different yeah it's just a little bit yeah so when i got there in mexico i kid you not back in the day we didn't really know it was it was ex on the beach so i don't like to talk about it but it was less it was ex on the beach and um when i did that show they brought out a girl that had had a thing with my ex and it was just a really really touchy subject yeah so I was really heartbroken so the whole series I was filming I was on edge was he gonna come out you know is it gonna ruin I was met someone on there and when I come off the show the first thing my mum said was oh god you didn't like do anything bad did you oh so so yeah I was like well just a few things um and then i said and i've got a boyfriend his friend wells can he move in natural pressure and he did my mom let him oh your mom is honestly so great she he moved into my house in my bedroom in my mom and dad's house wow um and then that obviously didn't last very long and then I went on every other reality show you can think of it was like a spiral of just craziness I went on from that you know Big Brother wanted me and then Towie actually wanted me before Big Brother which is weird because people know I went on it after Big Brother but there was talks before and it was just I was getting these opportunities and I was like how can I turn these opportunities down but you know I went on to Big Brother obviously wanting to show people that you know I am nice and I'm not this just crazy persona of oh she's heartbroken and losing her head all the time but obviously I went on Big Brother and back in the day they did feed and feed and feed you alcohol and you know I was 22 again very drunk and made it to myself again

16:12Fearne Cotton: like what I would say is first of all reality tv back in the day when we were first seeing the initiation of it coming onto our screens it was a very different beast to what we see today which there has to be more governance over it and control and precaution so that people fully know what they're going into how they're going to be seen on tv what the aftermath of that might look like but when you started out doing it it was the wild west it was yeah and you know what i i wouldn't change anything because i'm really grateful and i loved everybody that i worked with on the shows like the producers, the cameramen, I got on with them all.

16:49So it's funny because obviously when I watch it back, anybody that's watching it would be like, oh, I bet she's a nightmare. But I genuinely really got on with everyone. Like it was just, a lot of things are ramped up. Everything's heightened when you're in them houses for like a month and everyone like, we're all here, you know, we're doing a show and it's, I would like to think no one takes anything too much to heart, but it just, just kind of blew up from there really. Big brother, Towie, and then I did my own show and then I did what I would say the more nicer shows like MasterChef, some really nice, wholesome shows.

17:23And then finally I was able to kind of show just me, like normal Megan.

17:28Fearne Cotton: But also when you're 22, I'm sorry, but I am so glad that when I started in TV, reality TV, I think Big Brother had just started in the 90s when I started on telly. And I didn't do anything because there wasn't the opportunity for you to do stuff like that back then. It was just, you know, they would have a whole new series and a new cast of people, but there were no camera phones. There was no social media. You know, when I was doing Top of the Pops, whatever, when I was 22, 23, would I have liked my actual life to have been shown on the TV? Absolutely not. Like, what 22-year-old in that situation is going to have decorum and behave in a certain way?

18:06Fearne Cotton: You know, you've been giving free alcohol, amazing opportunities. What 22-year-old's not going to do something a bit silly? that's what I'm saying it it was I have to laugh about it look some things I do see back and I think oh why but you know that was me at 22 we all do and I think also it's really important to look back at younger versions of ourselves compassionately and go whether you know we'll all have a version of this whether you've been on reality tv or not like looking back at yourself age I don't know for me it'd probably be in my early 20s and think you made stupid mistakes you did stupid things all the stuff that many of us do but I either whether it's forgiveness you need or like oh I'm just going to put that younger version of myself in my pocket and look after you and give you all the things that you felt you didn't have at that point otherwise if we sit there beating our younger selves up constantly mentally yeah we just end up feeling awful I know yeah it's something like I do look back at myself a lot of some of the shows I actually feel sad at at some points of it because I knew what I was going through for a lot of it but shows are cut down to I mean you know like to nothing to make good telly yeah and do you know what I was kind of riding with that stigma of mental Megan like that was my nickname it was like mental Megan at one point there was an advert of me in a stray jacket right okay yeah and I was just as shocked as everyone seeing it as me seeing it I was like oh my god like back then you're like okay cool you know therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough it shows up in the smallest moments you bite your tongue instead of escalating you put your phone down instead of firing off that text you say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most nobody applauds those moments but they quietly change your life that's what growing feels like.

20:01And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average.

20:39See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

21:00Fearne Cotton: And did you mind, because then obviously then the public, when you're out and about, you're in the supermarket, you're doing your thing, to them you are just that one thing because they don't know obviously all the other sides. We've all got multiple sides of our personality and how we show up in different situations. I can be very shy and quiet when I'm at home or I'm out and about. I love being on my own, in solitude, not really speaking much, but obviously people know you for one thing. like I talk for a living so I'm going to be chatty and yeah all the time back then for you it was you are Larry you are this character did you find that jarring um I feel like at the time no weirdly because I feel you know I had a brand off the back of it I had my book called Malfi I had a lip gloss line called Malfi I was like cool I'm Malfi you know that's it it was making me money honestly I was like living my best life I was touring doing uni tours I didn't go to uni so I was like living this uni dream and I was loving life but it's obviously it's the points the points where I would say when I left TOWIE it affected me because my real relationship firstly was all over that show there's only so much you can take of like your real feelings being just trampled 24-7 on a show and everyone kind of using storylines off of the back of it I call get it everyone wants to be in in the episode but it's real feelings at the end of the day so when I left TOWIE I decided to leave off of my own thing mid-series I didn't want anything to do with it anymore and then I was like do you know what I'm a bit fed up of everyone thinking I'm this angry girl because I'm not and it was only when I fully come off of doing full-time reality tv when I went to Germany and had was pregnant and I started doing my socials and kind of just doing more of a a social life on social media it was then I've started to get people comment like oh god she's actually really wholesome like she's just a normal girl living her life you know she's pregnant she's cooking and I was like it's really nice that finally because I've always been that yeah and you can get control back yeah that has been me all along it's just never been shown yeah I've never been shown in that light but I've finally kind of got to the point now where people come up to me in the street and say I love your cooking videos not you know giving me one of my one-liners that don't get me wrong they're funny um but you know what I mean I mean it's so hard when you think like you say you know you've got your real life relationships being exposed to millions of people watching who will then have an opinion based on a tiny snippet of what they've seen how do you think that level of exposure with your real private life impacted you it's weird because on the other shows it didn't really maybe because them shows were kind of filmed and they weren't live kind of TOWIE was very you'd film it it'd come out a few weeks later it was very live and I just it got to a point where I wasn't kind of turning up for filming at the end and I even the producers I never forget I was sitting in Sugarheart believe it or not in the background and one of the producers said to me this ain't the old Megan like come on like there's two girls giving me a bit of you know drama and I was like not feeding back to it and I think that was when I realized I was done there that I'm done now you know it's funny at the time but it's actually I'm not laughing anymore it's just too much it really really hit me and at the end of TOWIE it really hit me emotionally with my feelings did it make you paranoid because really paranoid and my friends we joke about it now but it is a real thing like I always say like I'm whispering about something they're like why are you whispering I'm like I don't know it's almost I swear I'm like it's PTSD yeah and we laugh because it's funny because at the end of the day like when you think about it it's not a normal situation is it you've got cameras under everywhere and on you and then your conversation that you think is private isn't you know what I mean and it's on an episode and you're like oh wow I can't believe I said that but that then bleeds into your everyday existence of your having a cup of tea not on camera with people but you've still got that paranoia it does I swear it really really leads it not just Tabby look all the other shows You have to be really careful as well, like what you say and your opinions.

25:34And, you know, it all depends on how much you want out on a show, I suppose. But I wear my heart on my sleeve and I can't hide my emotions. So no matter if I was not answering the question, it would just show all on my face. So I might as well do. My face is like that. I can't lie. No, I cannot. I'm terrible. No. I don't know. Is it a good thing or not?

25:56Fearne Cotton: I'm not sure. I think it's a good thing. Yeah. It just means like I could never do traitors because you would know. It would be so obvious. I can't lie. I can't do it. I find it impossible. It's so hard. The other sort of strange thing, and I think I definitely feel this with my job as well, is because you get feedback about you as a person. You're not an actress. I'm not an actress. If people give you feedback and say you're to this or I don't, Or they'll say even flippant things that, you know, they sort of have slightly dehumanised you by going, oh, I've never really liked her. Not my cup of tea.

26:37Fearne Cotton: You know, just stuff like that, which for as a human, you go, not my cup of tea. What have I done wrong? Like, why am I flawed? What's wrong with my personality? You can really start to overthink. How am I coming across? Do I sound a bit angry when I shouldn't? Or do I look disinterested? Or whatever it is, those comments really can stick with you. if you let them. How's that affected you? I feel like I'm quite thick-skinned with the bad comments. Are you? Yeah. Oh, my God, I'm so jealous. Yeah. But because I feel like I've been called everything you can think of, like, bad. So, like, now when I see anything, I'm like, that's actually not that bad.

27:20Fearne Cotton: Really? No, because honestly, like, you know. But what about when it was really bad at the time? That was water for ducks back? Yeah, I would worry. Well, at the time, I suppose I was young and a little bit more blasé with things. Whereas I suppose now, I don't know. It's a hard one. I am a worrier. I am an overthinker. Me too. But the comments on Instagram and stuff, I don't know, it's really hard because I just feel like I've really been in bad places with online trolling with things. Like to the point where I write about it and everything because it's a horrible, horrible place online. And I love being online.

28:01There's so much positive to it. but I think if you're not thick skinned with that side of things it's a very very dark world yeah I think especially when you feel like you've been I don't know whether it's misunderstood or

28:16Fearne Cotton: people aren't getting who you are as a person that feels very tricky yeah obviously if people are out there spouting out negativity you know you're going to get bad feedback but when it is just you being you and people still have an opinion it doesn't feel like it aligns with who you are Do you know what? I think with me, I think when I see things about myself, I'm kind of like, oh, whatever, just leave it. That's so good. That's such a great attitude to have. With myself, if it extends to my family, there's a problem. Because I feel instantly guilty that my family and everyone is exposed to my world and then I start to worry and overthink.

28:58I think that's a natural thing as well.

29:00Fearne Cotton: what do you do when you're overthinking spiraling is that does that happen before bed is that where um the worst bit yeah it's bedtime can be bedtime can be a bit of a tricky one yeah yeah for me too yeah soon as i'm like oh turn the lights off yeah 8 000 tabs open in my brain with every worry i could ever invent i am just lie there going okay go on then off you go kick off it's like so boring Oh, no. I have to listen to a podcast or my brain is just too crazy. Do you? Is that how you get sleep? Yeah, I swear. Otherwise, I'm thinking of everything. Everything. Everything, yeah. So, podcast, that's a good nighttime tactic.

29:37Fearne Cotton: What about in the day, if you're in a bit of a spiral worrying about something, what would you do? Bring my mum. Oh, your mum. What's your mum's name? Tanya. Tanya. Yeah. Can I call Tanya? Yeah. Because I feel like there are a few moments where it would be really handy to chat to Tanya. Yeah. I do call my mum a lot. It's a helpful thing. Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean, you've got much more control over your whole life now, it seems. You know, you don't need to rely on doing reality TV. If you want to do it, fine. If you don't, you've got your own projects and goals that you've got now with your singing and your cooking.

30:13Fearne Cotton: You've had two cookbooks out now? Yes, two. So brilliant. Thank you. I must feel really lovely and empowering sort of coming from that place where you have basically no control over your image to this is what I want to do. Yeah, I love it. I love cooking. I love making people. I love the interaction on Instagram. Saw you made a lovely little, was it a date and raisin? Yeah, little loaf. Loaf, yeah. Lovely. It was some cinnamon icing. Yeah, it was lovely. Landon loved it. Dreaming. I'm actually not that much of a baker, to be fair, but that come out great. So I was really happy. So good. I'm more of an evening dinner.

30:48I like to do all the sides and the garnishing. and yeah. Do you find that relaxing? Is that good for your head? That is, every day I obviously cook. I do a big cook every night. No matter what I'm doing, I'm there in the kitchen and it's so therapeutic for me. Like your brain flatlines. Yeah, I'm just cooking. I'm getting on with it. I love it. Landon gets involved and I love playing it up and making it look pretty even if it's for just literally me. Like I like to do it all.

31:15Fearne Cotton: That's so great. If I'm on my own, I'm like, it's going to be toast. Really? I can't be arsed. Oh, no. Oh, no. If I've got people coming over, I am so excited. Like, my favourite is a Sunday lunch, and I'll just do, like, lovely big platters, and I'll always do a big cake. Like, absolutely love it. I'll do little cocktails when you walk in the door. Like, it's all beautiful. Me, I cannot be arsed. Really? I can't be arsed. No, how can I be bothered? It is, I don't know. I don't find it a chore. I honestly really enjoy it and even this is crazy I've moaned about the clearing up in the past because when I'm in Germany Ollie clears up so I cook, he cleans and he's a really good kitchen cleaner as well good yeah but in the UK obviously it's all on me so sometimes I look at it and I'm like whoa now that's where I would come into play because I love the cleaning up that is my absolute favourite give me a messy kitchen I'm in heaven really and like the the finished product of it being all sparky no that is lovely oh yeah no it is nice that's nice that is a dream but it's just that process of getting through that I use every pot and pan and knife and fork Ollie's like why are you using so many forks I'm like so many forks I always get a new one out to try it and then I get and then I look around there's like forks everywhere chaos yeah yeah it's pretty messy but I'm getting better at the cleaning side like I'm enjoying it more it's part of the cook yeah that's very therapeutic to me yeah it's part of the cook I feel like I'm cleaning my brain yeah no I do too yeah and when I leave in the day my house sometimes you know with Landon oh it's just everywhere like getting ready the dressing room everywhere oh when you've got kids oh it's just obviously nightmare but when my house is clean and tidy I'm happy same yeah when I go to bed it has to be tidy all his cars I like to line up when he comes down in the morning he's got all his little cars I really enjoy making his play area, even the little fruit bit, you know, his kitchen.

33:18No, I get it.

33:19Fearne Cotton: I mean, my son is now 13. So I'm like, I know exactly where he is in the house. Just follow the trail of destruction. There are socks and plates and cups. And then there he is at the end of the trail. But the cleaning bit, I absolutely, that for me, I need things that are so mundane that my brain can only focus on, like, I am just going monotonously through this thing. and then the worrying stops somewhat. I love that. Does your worry ever tip into full-blown anxiety? Yeah. I actually do get really bad anxiety about things. Mainly things like, weird things like, I might be going out somewhere, like going out somewhere.

34:00Like a social anxiety. Yeah, I can get that. I have that.

34:03Fearne Cotton: Some lovely lady came up to me today actually in this crowd when we were on a book signing and said, can I ask you advice? I've got a party to go to tonight. And I went, don't go. and she went oh thank you thank you so much and i think so many of us just think yeah there she is hi babes you're not you're not going are you no that's hilarious and i said imagine this you leave the festival later you go home you sit on the sofa you got a little blanket a cup of tea got a little show on the telly that versus going to a party yeah that is so true are you nuts that's so true I'd take that any day like social anxiety is so real I think most of us I don't know that many people please do tell me if I'm wrong and put your hand up who are like I cannot wait to get to that party no really one person one that's mad two we got two we're going to have a taker over here three four okay four four, five out of like hundreds of people.

35:07Fearne Cotton: That's really funny. Most of us just think, oh, my thing in that setting, a social setting is, am I going to say something nuts to someone? Like highly likely. Will I then spiral for two days worrying about it? Yeah. Like, will I just be awkward? Like there's an awkwardness. Will I be awkward? And they're going to go home and go, oh my God, why is she so awkward? Like all of that seems like a mountain I can't be asked to climb. Yeah. But it's weird because back in the day, going out for me was like I lived for going out so maybe that's why now I'm like I feel like I've been and done it and having Landon has just opened my eyes so much to just doing really lovely things in the daytime and then being in my PJs by seven that is my absolute dream yeah true now the thing is when you were younger when I was younger we probably mitigated social anxiety somewhat by drinking loads because that is the way that you and I will still do that I'll go out and I'll just think I have a massive like margarita as soon as I get there then I'm all right which is maybe not the best coping mechanism but it's usually quite a fun one but back in the day I would just do that all night yeah like keep drinking to never ever hit that moment where I'm like I'd actually quite like to be at home instead yeah that is true I mean you've talked about this before about using alcohol to help you cope and deal with like the craziness of your life yeah I mean I I only moved on to margaritas I would say when I was 30 but back in the day I was poor I don't know what I was drinking a bit of everything but a Jager bomb was definitely up there yeah I would basically be drunk before I'd even got to where I was going and I think when you're young as well like you just I don't know how I used to drink so much but I would always end my night with throwing up Like if I didn't throw up, I'd be like, I can't believe I didn't throw up last night.

36:54Yeah. Yeah. Like that was a mark of success. That was normal. Whereas now, my God, if I was drinking to the point of throwing up, I'd be like, what a disgrace. No. But I know it's all a part of growing up. But yeah, I don't know.

37:06Fearne Cotton: Was there a bit where your lovely mum, Tanya, would say to you, like, you were drinking too much. Like, what is going on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was times where she had to come and pick me up. Yeah. Really bad. Right. and would she give you a bollocking really hold off yeah really really telling off and my nan god bless her but she um she hated it when i went out because she knew i would get paralytic yeah and did that when they had that kind of feedback for you yeah using the word feedback it's not feedback gave you a bollocking yeah um gave me a bollocking did you would you feel like embarrassed like what would you know that's the problem right but i i always told my mom where i was like my mum always knew where I was I would never lie whereas my sister on the other hand we always laugh about it now would always tell her porky and would like go somewhere else where because she wasn't meant to go but she would always tell me but I was like no mum I'm gonna be going here I'm gonna be back at 6am and she'd be like okay as long as I know where you are she was really like open with me you know going out but she just needed to know because she said if God forbid anything happened and I think you're somewhere else and you're there.

38:17She said that would just kill her. So that stuck with me no matter where I went.

38:22Fearne Cotton: I mean, what do you think now? It's so different when you have your own kids and you're like, I cannot believe what I put my mum through. I know. Imagine Landon one day. I can't even, I don't know. Terrifying. I don't even want to think about that. I don't. It's horrible. I can't bear it. Awful, yeah. I mean, I think my mum was probably similar to yours. As long as she kind of roughly knew where I was. I am going to be in a car, sat outside someone's house party, just waiting. I know. As if I'm going to sleep. I know. I can't imagine it. Like Rex is 13, so he's not going out yet. But in a couple of years, how am I going to sleep?

38:56Fearne Cotton: I don't understand how it's going to work. I don't know. Why am I going to lie there and go, oh, yeah, I'm so relaxed that he's drinking in someone's house. I don't know. I'm just going to fall into a deep sleep here, guys. Oh, my God. No way. I'm never going to sleep again. No, that's going to be me. I don't know. I'm hoping though, like times are changing. I feel like the younger era now are so into yoga and matcha, whereas I was not. You know, I was, let's spend my weekend wages all in one night. Yeah, I think your generation was the last generation. Mine was the penultimate to really go for it.

39:29Fearne Cotton: Like it was all about going out and just getting shit faced basically. I think you're right. I look at like younger generations of women and they seem just so together. They are. And they have leisure wear. I know. And they go to Pilates. I know. I would have been like, what? On a Saturday morning, they're going to Pilates. I mean, it's commendable. I'm like, hats off. But I would be waking up on someone's sofa that I'd never met before. Same. And they're going to Pilates. The tides have turned. It has. That's what I'm just hoping that. Let's hope this era stays. Let's hope this era stays. The matcha era is here to stay.

40:11Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

40:48You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

41:29The Mighty Dollar. Once upon a time, it had a whole menu named after it. Now, no more.

41:37Fearne Cotton: But$1 a day lets you add Progressive renter's insurance to your auto insurance. Definitely something your younger self would roll their eyes at, but your current adulting self appreciates. Learn more at Progressive.com. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers. Average premium costs based on Progressive home data from 2025. Product and prices may vary by state.

42:02Do you have any regrets about that era of your life? It's hard because I don't like to say about regrets because I would never be where I am. But I would say maybe don't put as much energy and time into boyfriends when I was young. My mum always used to say to me like, you know, you're wasting your time. And I'd be like, no, no, I'm not. Because you would fall very deeply in love very quickly. And I was just, I don't know. I don't know why I was like that. I don't know. I honestly don't know why I was like that. And you regret it because you were then hurt. Yeah. But then it's weird because if I wasn't hurt, I wouldn't have done that season and I wouldn't have got MTV.

42:44Life works in crazy ways. Yeah. So I'm like, it was meant to happen to me.

42:50Fearne Cotton: I mean, it's interesting when you can retrospectively look back and go, ah, I get it. I get why I had to go through something bloody awful because something good has come out of it or I can see the silver lining. Have you ever had bits of your life where you've thought there is nothing good to be had from this situation? Like your life's kind of, you know, I think we've probably all had those moments where it feels like everything's just going to shit around you. Yeah. Yeah, obviously, yeah, look, there is a few things, I'd say, through my life in my 20s that were not very nice. I would definitely say I've just most recently spoken about my robbery.

43:27Yeah. that is probably the main thing in my life where I think there's defo no good that comes out of that because how what is there it just leaves you like a walking nervous wreck do you know I mean and it has affected me forever it really has understandably it is so traumatic to go through

43:47Fearne Cotton: something like that I mean I I'm I'm saying this as someone that's not been through that I believe that you will one day not feel like this. Yeah, I hope so. I do. I've spoken to so many people who have been through the most dreadful things like that. Yeah. It's unimaginable to believe that you could feel okay, safe, all right, whatever. And down the line, it will happen. And I really hope that you have that feeling. I really, really do. Thank you. Yeah. I suppose like two years isn't that long. No. Actually, nearly three years now. But it's not that long. It's not. For something like, yeah. And also you're a mum.

44:25Fearne Cotton: And I think that comes with a sense of paranoia, vulnerability anyway, because you're in charge of a little person that you love more than anything. So you've already got that going on. And then you've got that fear of, I think when I listened to you on lovely Jamie's podcast, I loved him. Yeah, I love him. One of my great friends. I love him. And you talked about it with such vulnerability, but the sense that home is for all of us, wherever that is, whatever that looks like, it should feel like a sanctuary. It's not always a given. and we know that for many people who don't have a good home life.

44:54Fearne Cotton: But when you have that sense of this is my retreat, this is where I go to get away from all of it, the noise, the world, and we all need that respite. When that is taken from you and your home doesn't feel like that anymore, that's a big deal. Yeah, it is. And I'm like, I like to have time on my own at home. Like I love to sit in and watch a series. And like I said, get in my PJs, cook food. I'm a very home gal so for a long time for that year after that happened obviously I moved from that home straight away which was horrible because I was like my first home that I bought yeah and you know it's like I just loved it so much I had so many amazing memories there um but you know you just can't step back into that space after something like that's happened to you um but yeah I had to move in with my mum actually for ages I was in her spare room for a long time and then I was pregnant on top of it or after all of it and I'd say that's probably one of the most challenging parts of my life actually dealing with obviously when that's something like that happens to you obviously having like night terrors and it's very complicated the aftermath of that yeah so yeah it's been a big problem and physically like these are manifesting as like panic attacks is that yeah I would say more in the night it's more night time yeah so like waking up you know I've had in and out situations with the whole sleep paralysis thing I don't know how much you go into sleep paralysis or anything do you believe it or obviously a thing yeah yeah yeah I mean yeah yeah this is up for I think there's people out there that we're listening to this here in this tent yeah yeah oh my god I've been there I've had it it's horrendous and it's obviously I'm in trauma therapy again because I did have a session sessions when it happened but sleep paralysis has like become this thing for me where I just don't want it to happen ever again but obviously I've had it a couple of times and it's all stemming from this you know this stress at night time going to bed worrying not being able to settle any little noise wakes me up Landon sleeps in my bedroom still with me he's got his bedroom own bedroom he's in with me in his cot but I cannot go to bed at night without him next to me yeah I can't I get it And it is, I know it's a problem because he is at one point needs to go.

47:15I know he needs to go into his own room. I know. But I don't know. I just think to myself, if something happened to me again and he wasn't in the room with me, I don't know. I honestly think I have a mental breakdown.

47:27Fearne Cotton: Yeah. Look, you've got to do it on your time scale. It's for no one else to tell you how to do it. I think you've got to keep doing the therapy and heal your time to get to a place where you feel safe to do that. and it's a big deal. And I am, it's funny because I know I'm safe in my new home and, you know, obviously, you know, you take more precautions when something like that has happened to you. Like, even though, yeah, whatever, we won't get into it. But even though I'm so, so safe, I still feel like, could someone get in? You know, I've still got that feeling at night and I'm waking up in the night still thinking someone's coming in, you know, it's horrible.

48:05Fearne Cotton: The interesting thing about any level of PTSD is, and I've done it, I still do a lot of therapy. I go to therapy every week. I feel very lucky that I have access to it because I know it's not given, but I get so much from it. And we can talk about things, do different modalities of therapy to get our brain on the right course with I am moving on from this, but the body is a whole other thing. And we don't realize how much our body is holding, you know whether it's something off we've been through in the past or something more recently that the brain we can cognitively think oh i know i'm safe i'm okay but the body is our nervous system is doing something entirely different and that's like that needs a whole other bunch of attention to then deal with what's going on and that can you know that could take a long time to to move through like your brain can be on board with it your body's still holding on to so much that's why somatic healing is something that i'd say you know anyone who's been through something rough look into it and there's lots of different ways to do somatic healing but when it's focused purely on the body and it almost takes the brain out of the equation it's fascinating what we're we're holding on to so much yeah it is a crazy thing it's you have no control and i think that is what i struggled with i think the having no control of what happened to me that night even though in a weird way I'm going through therapy now and she's like actually you did take control because you phoned the police straight away you spoke to them asked them what they wanted and all of these different things like there is ways that you took control but obviously I'm starting to realise okay I'm a lot braver than I thought if you know you always have I don't know if you have this but I have this dream about not being able to ring that third nine oh my god I have but I have phone not working for you all the time all the time yes it is horrible i hate it or the buttons don't work it's like it won't turn on i hate those horrendous but it's really funny because when that happened to me that night i woke up i was listening to a podcast believe it or not and um i was so quick on my phone it worked straight away 999 right it's like i it's like my i went into autopilot knowing what to do.

50:23So I'm like, I know I'm capable, but it's like it's just time. It is. It's time. And I'm yeah, yeah, I don't know. And you're doing all the right things.

50:33Fearne Cotton: You're doing all the right things to move through it in whatever time it takes to move through it. Yeah. And I really I send you all the love with that one. It's a big thing that you've been through. Thank you. Yeah, really hope that you get to that good place. Thank you. So let's talk about music because I saw on Instagram not that long ago, you are working on new music? Yes. So music's been obviously a dream of mine since I was little. I thought getting into the reality world would make life easier for me. I've done the opposite. You're like a challenge. Another challenge. I'm like, okay, how am I now going to make people take me seriously?

51:17So it's been a good, I'd say 10 years, I've been doing the country music on and off. You know, I've been supported loads of amazing people from like Tom Jones and Michael Ball. It's amazing. It's been amazing. I've had built really lovely relationships with songwriters. I've been to Nashville, LA and all this malarkey. And then I would say recently having a three-year gap, it's made me think, okay, I want to give this a massive shot now. I've got a new management, a new team, and we're just in the stages of having label meetings. So I really do believe in myself. I feel like the UK are really enjoying country music now.

51:53Fearne Cotton: Yeah. We had line dancing here earlier. Did you? Thank you very much. Yep. Well, I just think everyone's realising country music is so good. Yeah, it's amazing. It's just amazing, the storytelling. And you know how I'm going forward with it now? I was always shying away from talking about my crazy life on telly and stuff with my music, like keeping it separate. Whereas now I'm like, look, that's part of the story. You know, a lot of people that make it in the industry have done other things. And I think it's different now. Like times have changed. People can do more than one thing. And I'm really hoping just everyone backs me on it.

52:28And I really hope I get radio play and tour. We'll back you, won't we, Dan? Thank you. All the bloody way. Thank you.

52:35Fearne Cotton: All the bloody way. So great. Thanks. You've got such a beautiful voice. Thank you. Hey, before we wrap things up, I would love to know, Megan McKenna, where is your happy place? Can that be like in general a person? It could be a thing, a person, a feeling. it's a forical whatever you want it to be okay my happy place is obviously like my family landon obviously my husband like landon has made me the happiest girl in the world and i feel like i move forward with life now with anything with work opportunities or anything is if it happens it happens i have landon and i literally live live my life for just seeing his face his first views of things and honestly I'm like a proper soppy mum and I never thought I would because I'm like a dog mum even though my little Daisy she's not here with me anymore but I've always been more of a dog mum over babies always loved dogs more having a baby I'm like what the hell yeah they are the best things in the world so that's my happy place oh I'm so glad so happy to hear it.

53:42Fearne Cotton: Thank you. Thank you. Megan, thank you so much for being at the Happy Place Festival. Thank you so much. It's been so lovely to have you here and good luck with all of your music ventures. It's awesome. Please everybody give it up for Megan. Thank you. Thank you, Megan. I love that chat and yeah, I really meant what I said. I really do believe that Megan can get out of this horrible space where she feels that level of sort of nerve jangling anxiety at night time I totally get it I'm not being reductive about that experience or dismissing it I've been there myself with obviously a different situation not a robbery but I definitely went through a time where I felt on high alert I was like hyper vigilant all the time for years having panic attacks I couldn't sleep at night and at times it feels like well this is it I'm never going to get out of it and I do believe that with the right therapy and you've got to really experiment and also you've got to get access to it which is a whole other bag of onions but if you can and I know that Megan's really willing to and you know luckily has the resources to be able to do so she will be able to overcome it down the line I really hope that for her because like we talked backstage about it even after we came off stage and it's just so awful like that she went through that and to not feel safe in your own home at night is just awful really really dreadful so all my love goes out to Megan and I really hope that she manages to to get there down the line thank you Megan you're great her latest cookbook love gluten-free is out now a massive thanks again to Megan and to you lot you are the bloody best

55:33Thank you.