“I was overweight and unhappy!” Liz Earle’s perimenopause and midlife reinvention

0:01Hello, I'm Fearne Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that demystifies all the confusion around how to feel good in your skin. Today, I'm chatting to Liz Earle. I feel very fortunate to be here in my 60s now with a great young boyfriend who's kind of given me renewed energy and kind of hope in the future and all of that. You know, when I look back to my 40s perimenopause, I was overweight. I was unhappy. I was stressed. I wasn't sleeping. And yes, life can be shit. Yes, life is challenging and tough. Of course it is. But, you know, how we choose to respond to that, that's our own making. And if we can equip ourselves in the best possible way physically, then everything becomes easier as a result.

0:47I'm really excited about this. I read this book right recently. Me and my kids went to Paris, which was so brilliant. I was very nervous as a single parent to do a city break on my own with my kids. But my God, did we all enjoy it. You know, all the things that you start worrying about, like, are we going to be able to get cabs OK or certain places walkable or will I get mugged? You know, like all the silly fear stuff that you've got in your head about going somewhere new just were totally dismantled within five seconds of being there. We just stood in awe looking at the architecture and all the gorgeous little shops and obviously stuffing our faces with croissants and macarons and crepes and all sorts of delicious pastries.

1:29It was so brilliant. But we went on the Eurostar. So I had a long train journey to read Liz's brilliant book, which is called How to Age. And I loved it for so many reasons that you're about to hear. One of the reasons I'm excited to have this chat is the conversation around aging is always just about like, do women look old and haggard? Full stop. There's nothing else to it. Either like, oh, she looks good for her age. That pisses me off. To she looks like dog shit. She's aged badly. It's just always about what we look like. The aging conversation is so much more. And that's exactly what Liz is trying to express more beautifully expresses in this book.

2:10Aging is about how we feel, how we move through the decades, how hopefully longevity means being agile and feeling well later in life and how important that is. Not just how many wrinkles you've got or if you've got saggy tits or whatever other shit is pushed on women. So this is a really important conversation and one that I think, I really hope you get a lot from. Now, Liz Earle, of course, was a beauty journalist before founding Liz Earle Beauty in the 90s. I mean, I remember that whole Liz Earle blow up in the 90s. She was everywhere. She's also a bloody good businesswoman. She's got many strings to her bow.

2:50She was also at the Happy Place Festival last summer and had a huge crowd of people listening to her talk. But she's gone back to her roots in journalism and now spends her time reading all the latest scientific studies about menopause and how to age really healthily. And we're incredibly grateful that she's so brilliant at that hard graft so the rest of us can absorb it in a much more palatable form through her podcast, Age Better, and her latest book, How to Age.

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6:00Right, here we go. This is the show.

6:24Hello, Liz. Hello. So good to see you. Last time I saw you was at the Happy Place Festival. We were wandering around in the sunshine and just having a dreamy time. It was so hot, wasn't it? It was really hot. I had a parasol with me to keep the sun off. I know, it was gorgeous. We're going to talk about sun in a bit because, as you can see from this amazing copy of your book, How to Age, I've dogged literally every other page. I was going to say, it's looking a bit tatty already. It's very tatty. It's been travelling around with me and I've gained so much from it. And the whole conversation around ageing, when it comes to women more specifically, is usually exclusively focusing on what our faces look like and maybe bodies, but it is a lot on the face.

7:05This is so much more and so much deeper. The conversation has been like the tip of the iceberg. You've done the whole rest of it. I do feel that. I mean, it's years and years of research. You know, I started writing books nearly 40 years ago. And this is the one. And I kind of feel that this is the one that I've been gearing up to for decades. It's the book that I wish I'd been able to read when I was your age, when I was the age of my daughters. I've got one who's 25 and one who's 35, you know, because I would have saved myself a lot of pain if I'd known this stuff earlier. But it's also never too late.

7:42I've also given it to my mum, who's in her late 80s, because she can start to make changes now and make a difference to the last years of her life to make them, you know, less painful and more mobile and more mentally active. This is what I love is that you've got all of this knowledge and wisdom and the research that you've done teamed with your personal experience of now being in your 60s. And I want to say thriving. Is that how you feel? So thriving. You know, when I look back, you know, I'm now just about to turn 63. I am fitter, stronger, more mentally sorted, happier, just living the best life compared to any other decade.

8:23You know, when I look back to my 40s perimenopause, I was overweight. I was unhappy. I was stressed. I wasn't sleeping. You know, I had the kind of the weight of the world on my shoulders. And I think a lot of women will relate to that because we are multitaskers, aren't we? We're doers. We're caregivers. and we are that squeeze generation. We're often looking after younger children and older parents and our community and our friends and trying to hold our relationships together and all of that. And I think we lose ourselves and not only our identity, but our sense of what we need to do in order to thrive and the importance of that.

8:57So it's about also reprioritising ourselves. It's a bit of a manifesto, if you like, for women, for womankind. I mean, it's hard, like you talk about in the book, your 40s being a time of physical and mental pain and you had a lot of stuff going on and relationships breaking down, divorce. I'm in the middle of all of that right now and I'm looking after kids. And it is so overwhelming. Obviously, in hindsight, you can look back and think, I wish I'd done things differently or prioritise myself. How would you, lots of my listeners will be a similar age to me. Where do you begin with that? If you've never prioritised your own wellbeing or yourself, where do you start?

9:32I think the first thing is just to make that decision that you're going to move yourself up the to-do list. You know, you can't just leave yourself at the bottom. And it's not selfish. You know, self-care isn't selfish because if we can't cope, then we can't cope to help others. So, you know, it really, really is that important. And I think it starts small. There's a lot of noise out there in the wellness space that feels really overwhelming. You've got to eat this. You've got to move like that. You've got to take this. You've got to buy this gadget. You know, what I say in How to Age is I come back to really simple basics.

10:07So it's working on a cellular level, because what I really identified with all the research about aging is it comes down to these little teeny, teeny things in our cells called mitochondria. And mitochondria is a word that we're going to be hearing so much more of in the future. All the longevity researchers, all the academics, the medics, they're all focusing on mitochondria. So mitochondria are basically little organelles in virtually every cell in the body. And they're like batteries. You can think of them as tiny micro batteries. They make our energy. So we need that energy for everything from brain health to literal energy for moving around, for controlling our hormones, for repairing DNA damage, for creating skin cells.

10:49Everything revolves around our mitochondria. And once you kind of take that on board, you then think, okay, so if it all revolves around mitochondria, how do I better protect them? How do I look after my mitochondria in the same way that I think we've got used to thinking about our gut microbes how do we look after our gut microbes how do we get a beneficial gut bacteria going we're eating yogurt and all that kind of stuff which is great but nobody's really talking about mitochondria so what I did was I went back and I looked at what mitochondria need to thrive and they need really simple things they need daylight they need plenty of the right kind of water they need connection with nature and earth.

11:32Even things like standing barefoot on the ground is actually helping to support your mitochondria. So these things, they're ancestral. We've evolved over time. We've forgotten them. We've moved indoors. We're sitting under LED lighting, which is like the junk food equivalent of ultra processed food. Basically, these LED single wavelength blue light bulbs are so destructive to our mitochondria and you know in trying to be energy efficient we just didn't look at the long-term implication of how lighting can make you sick no I mean that's what I loved about this book is first of all I'd never heard the word mitochondria and I was talking to my kids about it we were on a long train journey and I was reading your book and my son was like oh yeah I've done that in science I was like great Christ I'm so stupid like I had no clue but he was obviously learning about it within the cell point of view and whatnot but it was so fascinating to get into a conversation with him about it because he's also a 13 year old boy who wants to like mainline junk food and play computer games and all the stuff that as a parent you're thinking I know this isn't great because it doesn't feel good but actually when I apply all of that to my own body a lot of the time I'm not picking up the signals and that's why I love that you really deeply dive into the basics so you've touched on light let's talk about light because it's a big subject it's a massive subject the whole book could have just been about light frankly but it's only one section but again is something that in the wellness space and in the conversation of aging i've not heard it being mentioned at all i wouldn't say you know we get told eat this do this exercise yeah you know all the stuff put this face cream whatever is led mask but not yes the natural free sunlight that we have available to all of us is not included in the conversation so how important is natural daylight for our bodies it's 100 it's everything it's you know there's an expression tina you know there is no alternative and it is literally everything and i think that the skeptic in me would say well of course it's not promoted because there's nothing to sell It's free.

13:39We get out there and it is crucial. So, for example, I'm sure you've heard of the circadian rhythm and the 24-hour biological clock that we all run on. And in fact, even more than that, each cell in the body has its own circadian clock. So, you know, when you start getting into circadian rhythms, it's a fascinating subject. So the circadian clock in the body, which is part of our biology, it's what gets us up in the morning and helps us sleep at night. And it's this lovely sleep-wake cycle. It controls our hormone release and our cortisol and all of these great things. It runs on light. And it makes sense because when you think ancestrally, we were outdoor beings.

14:18We got up when the sun came up and we worked outside and it was daylight. And then when it got dark, we couldn't do anything anymore. So we had to come in. And if we were lucky, we maybe lit a lamp or a fire and we could just about see. Then, of course, when the electric light bulb came, that completely changed. Nothing, I think, more in the history of time has changed mankind more than the invention of the electric light bulb. Because it brought us indoors. It brought us working all hours. It brought us, you know, obviously later on, we've got screens now. We've got, you know, we're scrolling in bed.

14:47We're binging box sets at night. We've got that blue light that's pinging at us all the time. And our body is not responding well to that. It really isn't. And when you get up early in the morning and you look at the daybreak, for example, light is not static. It changes throughout the day. So first thing in the morning, I'm not a morning person. I don't know about you. Oh, I am 100 % morning. Well, then you'll love this. I'm terrible at night. My personality dies after 5 p.m. Well, I wish we could swap because I struggle to get up, but I know how important it is. If you can, get up and get outside within the first 60 minutes of daybreak.

15:26much easier for me in the winter because it's later much harder in the summer when that's like 4 30 in the morning you know but as close as you can if you can't physically get outside open a window you need that real light you don't need it filtered through glass you need to get your eyeballs seeing the daylight so even on a cloudy day it's not about sun it's about light and what happens is the sun comes up in the beginning there's no uv you just get all the near infrared red and the far and the red light and the green light and the blue light that comes up and your brain recognizes it. So these little mitochondria I talked about, the highest concentration of mitochondria in the body is in the eyeball, in the retina.

16:04Wow. And there's a reason for that because the mitochondria are controlling all these things and they're taking signals, light cue signals. They're telling the brain to produce various neurochemicals and everything then starts to gear into action. We start to wake up, we start to feel energized. We've got the ability to carry on and get on with the day. It also sets our clock. It's a bit like a kind of, you know, one of those timers that you can do for lighting later in the day, you know, you set the timer. What it does is that early morning light signal primes the production of melatonin and that's the sleep hormone and that's going to help us sleep better.

16:41So by getting up, looking at a bit of daylight, it doesn't have to be for very long, the longer the better, but you know five minutes is better than no minutes god and then the light changes through the day so then you start to get uva starts to rise that's the first thing then depending on the time of year around 11 o 'clock you might start to get uvb then that peaks around kind of the solar noon and then it tails off again and then by the time you come into sort of dusk and sunset the uv has gone and you're just left with that lovely red light so it's the same red light that people are going out and spending hundreds of pounds on led face masks you know to get the red light go and watch the sunset you know and it's it's free and it will do more for your mitochondria do you know what i love that you're breaking down the science of it so we can really hear what it's doing because i got told i don't know maybe four years ago by a friend go and stand outside every morning for 10 minutes when you wake up and i thought what the fuck is that gonna do i literally just thought i'm not doing that like that just sounds ludicrous because i didn't understand yes Yes, when you know why.

17:41You need to know the why. So, okay, most of us can hopefully do that, if not every day, even at weekends. Yeah, well, the key thing, the body loves rhythm. We talked about circadian rhythm. And again, this was a real learning for me because I used to work really hard during the week and then think, right, I'm going to have the weekend off. I'm going to lie in, get up late, potter about. The body likes consistency. So if you're up at seven every morning, Saturday, Sunday, up at seven. because it really helps the body kind of feel grounded and for all our circadian clocks to just be in balance. Otherwise, you're kind of living in a bit of jet lag and then you pay catch up in the week.

18:21So I know it's hard. The key thing is to try and get to bed that little bit earlier or maybe just have a nap in the afternoon if you're tired. So we understand the huge benefits now of getting that natural light. Let's talk about the other end of the spectrum, which is junk lighting. So we're sat under a lot of artificial light now. My favourite subject is junk lighting. This is making me look better, but it's doing my mitochondria. Well, I brought these just in case. Love. Yeah, these are my blue blockers. So I carry them with me all the time. I was walking through a train station the other day.

18:53It was really brightly lit. It was just like white light. There was no daylight anywhere. And I began to feel a bit edgy because I think once you start becoming aware of how the light makes you feel, you can react to it. And it's like a lot of people who might get migraine, for example. They find that coloured lenses are really beneficial for them, different colours, because it's blocking certain wavelengths of light. So a couple of things to do with light indoors. So, yes, LED lights, really not great. If you can get just one incandescent light bulb, you know, the old fashioned kind, pop it in a desk lamp.

19:27Say you're at work and you can't obviously go and change all your office lighting, but you could bring in a desk lamp. You could put an old fashioned lamp in it, have that on your desk or your workspace or at home or wherever. And that is giving you some of the broader spectrum light frequencies that will counteract the LED. So what is the junk lighting doing to our bodies, our cells? It's basically blocking or it's not providing the full spectrum of wavelengths that we need. It's just providing one very short wave, very intense, highly stimulating form of light. which if you're under it 24-7, you know, one of the things that really scares me is I had to go and visit a friend in hospital recently.

20:09And, you know, you go into the intensive care unit, 24 hours of bright blue LED lighting. And there was a guy I interviewed for the book, amazing guy, Professor Glenn Jeffrey. And he is a neuroscientist, professor of neuroscience and ophthalmology. So he kind of combines brains and eyes and he's passionate about light. and he says you know one of his big missions is to try and get led lighting out of hospital environments out of schools out of nurseries out of care homes i mean bloody everywhere it's everywhere you know i mean the road to hell is paved with good intention isn't it yeah we introduced all this lighting thing oh it's all so energy efficient and it's so bright and uplifting without looking at the science of actually what it's doing to our bodies But the good news is that A, we can switch it off.

20:55Yeah. B, we can go to old fashioned light bulbs, even not the whole caboodle, but a little bit. Turn your dimmer switch down. If you want to scroll at night or you want to be on TV, get your blue blockers on. Just be aware of it. Start being light aware. And it's amazing how much better you will feel almost immediately. It's like an instant effect. And when we look at phones, which we've all got phones. We all know we're on them too much. We all know that we're probably imbibing too much content, looking at this blue light too much. But that's not the end of it. It's also what the phone is emitting.

21:30How is that impacting us again? Because it's a conversation where we go, yeah, yeah, we know. I've been on it too long and I've looked at too much, but it's kind of it's more than that. Well, this is where you get into really interesting territory when we start talking about energy and invisible, other forms of invisible wavelengths. So light is obviously visible. Then I talk about things like sound. because you've got sound waves, which is, you know, you can't see, but you can hear. And that has an impact on our cells as well. And then EMF, so electromagnetic frequency. And there's a lot that's natural.

22:03So lots of things walking barefoot on the ground that we were talking about. That gives you your lovely natural, you know, non-negative ions, for example, which has been shown to reduce inflammation in the body. It's very calming when you stand beside waterfalls. that's producing all these lovely negative ions and we feel better for it. Unfortunately, we've also got all these what they call NN EMFs, which is the non-native EMFs. So these are new frequencies. So as a human being, as a race, as a species, we have never been exposed to 3G, 4G, 5G. We've just haven't been exposed to, you know, microwaves and, you know, all these, you know, Wi-Fi and all of this stuff.

22:44This is very new and there are ongoing studies looking at the negative impact on a cellular level. Nobody really wants to talk about it because it's kind of here. So I think for me, it's about mitigating it. So when I was researching the book, I bought quite an advanced reader to see where the EMF radiation was coming from and what I could do to reduce it. So simple things like switching off your Wi-Fi router at night. You can do that so you're not sleeping with it. I noticed that the readings were highest when I was charging something. So I used to sit with my laptop plugged in all the time on my desk charging because, you know, I want to keep it keep it going full of juice.

23:29That is really high. That gives off a lot of EMF radiation. So I now unplug it. And when I'm away from my desk, I plug it in and it's charging. I don't charge my phone next to my head at night when I'm sleeping. I make sure the kids don't do that either. So it's little things. And I think, you know, it's cumulative. People will say, yes, but, you know, there's no evidence. Well, there is some evidence. And I've got a whole section of references in the book because I want to be able to say to the sceptics, hey, just go look it up. You know, it is there. But when you think about it, who is going to fund studies showing that, you know, plugging your phone in could have a disruptive effect on your cells?

24:11You know, the tech giants certainly aren't going to do it. And nobody really wants to hear that. So it's not about saying, let's go back to the Stone Age. It's about saying there could be potential damaging effects from this. How do we mitigate those? And how are we, you know, let's just be sensible about it. Let's just have a measured approach and do what we can do. We know that cells behave better if they're in a more natural environment. So it stands to reason. And like you've just said, it's as simple as not charging your laptop or your phone by your head. Like we can all do that. It's not like we've got to overhaul our whole lifestyle.

24:44It's just a tiny change that is going to benefit us in all areas. Well, hopefully, you know, I think I'm more concerned. I mean, I've got five kids and I, you know, I'm concerned about how, I mean, they're older now, but, you know, growing up, what's the impact on youngsters on a growing, developing brain? And, you know, we've obviously got all the issues about content, about what they're watching for sure. but you know the actual act of of all the the radiation that's surrounding them how can we minimize that for them and give them some of the other benefits and it's just getting into the habit isn't it really yeah realizing that this is something that you can do it's like I say to my kids don't have bluetooth earbuds just plug in because again bluetooth what's the impact you know it's lit very close to your brain yeah and I guess we don't know at this point of course Of course we haven't heard long-term studies.

25:35It hasn't been around long enough to know for sure. So I'd rather be cautious. Yeah, which is totally understandable with the science that you've got and the research that you've got. Why would you not make that change? Once you start looking at mitochondria and I think, you know, you can track this. So, for example, when I was doing the whole section on EMF and I had my little meter and everything, you know, I had various sleep trackers and sleep gadgets. And I tested my sleep and I slept with the phone right next to my head and then I tested it with my phone plugged in right next to my head.

26:07And then I tested it with my Wi-Fi router switched off and guess which one gave me the best night's sleep. You know, no prizes for guessing. So, you know, is it a randomized controlled trial? No. Do I feel better for doing it personally? Yes. So it's something that I would advocate. And then let's talk about water. This is a big, big subject. And it's not news to any of us that our water is shitty, quite literally, but also just full of, you know, I've read this in studies before where, you know, you've got, whether it's HRT or the pill in there or antidepressants, you've got so much shit in our water.

26:51and you know we asked a lot of people are just like I've only got tap water I don't want to keep buying bottled water or maybe haven't got access to buy a filter to put under your sink or whatever what can we do about that because again that seems to be having a hugely negative impact on us in in all areas I think potentially and I think you know first of all we have to say that here in the western world we are very lucky we turn on the tap we get clean drinking water you know I've just come back from East Africa and that's not the case. So, you know, this is not about being one of the worried.

27:22Well, it's about kind of saying, okay, what we have is, is good, but it's not as good as it could be. And how can we make it better in a simple, to your point of, you know, effective, affordable way. I would say, you know, getting some form of water filtering is really useful. It depends where you live. When I go and stay with friends, you know, up in the Lake District, for example, I taste the water and it tastes different to my London tap water. I don't taste the chlorine it just doesn't seem i don't know how many times is it seven times that the water's been through a human body when you pour it out of the tap in london you know because we're recirculating it all the time it's going into the sewage system and it's being cleaned and then it's you know it's coming back out again and yes it does depending on your area it does contain traces of pharmaceuticals you've got pesticide residue you've got agricultural runoff from soil um you've they've obviously got to chlorinate the water to make it safe and all the rest of it so you can get different types of water filters you can buy a simple jug so that's the least expensive you can then upgrade it to an under sink unit you can actually do something really simple like stick a stick of charcoal in your water flask and that will help it won't clear things like fluoride or chlorine but it will you know do a certain amount to make the taste better and then you can really go up to things like reverse osmosis filtration systems if you're really into it and yeah then you start to get into all sorts of other properties that water has because again water is it's not static it's it's an energetic thing and we need it and I think as we age what's quite interesting is that our thirst signals blunt so we don't realize as we get older that we need to stay well hydrated that's really important for women because we're much more prone to things like recurrent UTIs and you need to have a lot of you know water stay really well hydrated and the problem is is that you know for women especially I think you know you're going out and about just practical things like where all the public lose where do you go when you want a wee yeah and so you do you think when you're traveling oh I'm not going to drink that extra glass of water because I'm going to get caught short I think I've got the weakest bladder of all time and I that's so bad isn't it yeah you know what why where why isn't the mayor of London and all these cities prioritising safe public loos for everybody.

29:40That would be just a really simple, great healthcare message. It would. And particularly for women. So many coffee shops don't have toilets these days. So you can't even rely on going to like buy a drink. You don't want to use the toilet. And I mean, I know that is one for me where I know me and my brother talk about this quite a lot because we're slightly water obsessed that we feel like shit if we don't drink enough water. Instantly a bit headachy. Absolutely. Foggy. our parents are of the generation. I mean, they come around to my house and they're like, oh, how can you drink water? It's so gross.

30:10And I'm like, I would feel like death. They drink none. I know, it's extraordinary. They just drink tea. The older generation, they never walked around with water bottles. No. But they did drink a lot of tea, which is quite hydrating. My mum drinks like 20 cups of tea a day. Yeah, you see, that is good. I mean, she's drinking liquid. And tea is good because it has a little bit of magnesium in it. It's got a little bit of L-theanine that helps to keep you calm. A little bit of caffeine gives you a lift. So yeah, I think tea is a health drink. I was glad that you said coffee's good. Coffee's great.

30:37Because I was thinking if you had written that coffee was bad, I'm going to have to throw this book in the fire. I wouldn't be here. But luckily, coffee, fine. Studies show that those who drink coffee live longer than those who don't. And it's not the caffeine. What is it? Well, they don't think. Well, it could be. The caffeine could have a stimulating effect. It kind of helps you work out a bit harder in the gym for sure. So it could make you a bit more motivated to move. But it's more the chlorogenic acid. So it's more the polyphenols in coffee, which again is coming back to cell protection.

31:07You know, everything, when you think about it on a fundamental level, is coming back to what's the impact on our cells? What's it doing to ourselves? Because we are a collection of cells. And as we age, our cells die off or they misbehave or they mutate or we might become susceptible to diseases or develop cancers and all these kinds of things. If we can prioritize keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and really start thinking inwardly about every mouthful you eat, you don't have to be obsessive about it, but it's like, hmm, what's this doing to my cells? Is this building them or is this knocking them down?

31:42This movement that I'm doing, this way I'm living, this light that I'm sitting under, this drink that I'm drinking. It's just an interesting exercise to say, is this a positive or a negative or a neutral? and just try and incorporate as many of the small little positives as we can. And before you know it, you'll start to feel so much better. You'll want to do more and more. Hannah, I just Venmo'd you for dinner. Obsessed. I'm literally spending it right now on the lip gloss that's been sitting in my cart. What do you mean spending it right now? You instantly spend your balance with the Venmo debit card.

32:17Stop. Say more. More exactly. The more you do with Venmo, the more you get, like earning up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Get the Venmo debit card or check out online. Venmo Stash Bundle Terms and Exclusions Apply. Max$100 per month. See terms at venmo.me slash stash terms. Venmo checkout not available at all merchants. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Disordered eating messaging is all around us. You can hardly leave your house or check your phone without seeing something about dieting, weight loss, or exercise. With all that pressure, it can be hard to recognize habits have become harmful or even an eating disorder.

32:57If you're concerned you or a loved one might have an eating disorder, I want to introduce you to Equip. Equip is a fully virtual, evidence-based eating disorder treatment program that helps patients achieve lasting recovery at home. Every Equip patient is matched with a multidisciplinary care team that includes a therapist, dietician, medical provider, and mentors. and you get a personalized treatment plan that's tailored to your unique goals and challenges. Equip treats patients of all ages and all eating disorder diagnoses. It's covered by insurance and there's no wait list. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get help.

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34:57Based on 2025 Consumer Choice Awards from Kelley Blue Book, visit kbb.com for more information. The only incentive that works is that. Because when we're doing something, whether it's to look better or even if it is for longevity, that's kind of a slightly more abstract concept isn't it because we're so in the immediate life we're living but I think especially when it comes to women and so much is focused on what we look like unless we feel that there are immediate results we're like I'm I'm binning this and actually so much of the time we continue with habits that we know aren't working for us whether it's just we're in the habit of it it feels too much effort to change or we've read in a magazine once that you should eat this or you shouldn't eat that or you should exercise like this and I mean is it the case that it is some of this stuff is bespoke you know for some people a certain diet will work or for some people a certain exercise regime will work yeah I think certainly when you look at food you know we have genetic variations so they're called snips and you know they are basically determining how our own personal makeup is and I think in the future we're going to be seeing more personalized medicine because we know that certain medications work for certain groups of people who have this particular genetic variation.

36:15So if you know what your genetic variation is, then you can be better helped with healthcare. So for example, I have a variation in my genes that I don't make glutathione. Glutathione is like the master antioxidant. It's really, really important. And we make it, most people make it by using other antioxidants like like vitamin C, for example, and turning that into glutathione. And glutathione is one of the key things that helps our mitochondria. So it's very good for aging. So what I do is, because I did a genetic test and I discovered that I don't make it, I now take glutathione as a supplement.

36:52And that's actually very useful. And when I was researching the book, I discovered that about a third of us don't make glutathione because we haven't, particularly in the Western world, we don't have the genetic makeup to do it somewhere along the in the mists of time we've lost that capacity to make it now you could do an expensive genetic test to find out for sure or you could just try it yeah you know how you feel buy some liposomal glutathione take it at bedtime and when you wake up in the morning do you have more energy if you find wow that was good that probably means that you're not making it right if you have no difference then fine save your money and don't buy it.

37:31So, you know, I'm trying to give people little insights into things that will really move the needle, you know, things that will really make a difference. And you talk there about skin, for example, you know, and obviously you can spend a lot of money on skincare and all of that. And, you know, me having had a past life working in skincare, you know, I know a bit about what goes on with the skin, but don't forget that we make our own skin. We make our own skin cells. So how do we get better skin? We get better skin by having better skin cells and we make our skin cells through better mitochondria.

38:05So if you come back to like the early morning protocol, what's happening when that early morning light begins to appear is some of that light signaling is talking to the fibroblasts, which are little cells in the skin that make collagen. And they're giving those little fibroblasts a message saying, okay guys, it's time to wake up and make some more collagen because collagen makes your skin slightly thicker and it's a protective mechanism. So we want collagen. That's why we buy expensive collagen supplements because we want our skin to be all kind of plump and springy. But our skin will make more collagen if the fibroblasts are told to do that.

38:41And they're told to do that by the light signals that we get first thing in the morning. So this is a big conversation that we haven't touched on yet. But the whole sun factor discussion. Should we be wearing SPF all year round, all day long? It's much debated online, but I loved your approach to it, which is complex and nuanced. It has to be talked about sensibly. It's not never wear SPF or you have to wear it all the time. Absolutely. And I think, you know, I know that I'm anticipating a lot of comments on the whole SPF thing. And I'm going to say, listen, you know, read what I have to say, because it's a lot of detail.

39:21It's not simple. For number one, there's no one size fits all. So in terms of sun and sun exposure, sun can be very damaging. You know, there's no question. You need to respect the sun. It's not always your friend, you know. So particularly if you're very fair skinned, particularly if the sun is very strong, particularly if you're outside and exposed to it for a long period of time. So it's about being measured. Depends on your skin type. It depends on the time of year and it depends how long you're exposed to it. And it also depends on how you've set your skin up. So that early morning light signaling is prepping our skin to have some UV exposure later in the day.

40:00So it's actually producing anti-inflammatory signals that say, hey, okay, it's daylight, let's wake up, let's get the skin ready because later on we're going to be outside working in the fields or whatever. We need some protection from the UVA that will rise and then the UVB. so it's giving us that mechanism to build in inner protection if we miss that early signal we stay indoors all the time midday we go out and we are sandwiches outside suddenly broad sunlight you know strong uv middle of the summer our skin's going to burn and get damaged why because we haven't done that early morning bit of setup and we've just gone out at a time of day which is not appropriate for our skin type.

40:46So short answer, do we need SPF all year round, wherever we are in the world and whatever our skin type? No, because why would you need to be protected from the sun when there's no sun? So first thing in the morning, crucially, you're not wearing any. No, no, you're going out. You need your skin to absorb it. Well, there's very, very low UVA. There's no UVB because that doesn't come till much later in the day. Even in the height of summer, we're not getting UVB till like 10, 30, 11. depending on your latitude. So yeah, I think it's about being measured. For me personally, I prefer to cover my skin with clothing or a big hat or both, stay in the shade.

41:26I don't go out and seek the sun when it's really hot. Do I use sunscreen? Yes, absolutely I do. You know, I use it when I need to, when I'm out in strong sunlight. But you know, even if you look at the nice guidelines. It's saying be very careful at peak times between 11 and 3. That's the key time. But also remember that we make vitamin D through sunlight. Vitamin D, it's actually a misnomer. It's not really a vitamin. It acts more like a hormone. It has so many activities within the body. We're not really fully understanding what vitamin D is doing, but it's certainly controlling all sorts of things and we know that it's implicated in our immune system and you know so and hormonal activity so we need vitamin d and yes of course you can go and buy supplements but actually they probably don't work on all the pathways that natural vitamin d does because again it's it's it's complicated you have researchers and academics who spend their entire lives just studying vitamin d and even they're not aware of all the things that it's it's doing for us so i want to get on to supplements in a minute but prior to that i I think we need to sort of dive more deeply into diet.

42:35Because again, whenever I've watched TV shows about the blue zones where you've got en masse centenarians who are living these brilliant lives, you see several themes that you talk about in the book, whether it's the level of community, which we'll get on to, and physical activity. But diet seems to really be the cornerstone of a lot of those areas, how they're cooking, but also fundamentally what they're eating. what can we learn from those areas and what for longevity and this is not just about you know looking younger about having that agility later in life to have the wellness later in life to enjoy that period if we're lucky between like 70 and 90 where we are still we're not in a hospital or having to sit in a chair that we can still move about and live vibrantly what should we be or is there a way that we should be eating I think for women particularly you know from sort of midlife onwards, we need to really prioritize protein.

43:31You know, protein is what's building our muscles. It's maintaining muscle mass. It's helping to prevent things like sarcopenia when we start to lose our muscle and that's what creates frailty. So we want to keep our strength going. And so, you know, whenever I look at a plate of what I'm eating, it's like my first thought is where's the protein? And then I'll build around it and I'll put, you know, green veggies around it and low carb is probably the golden rule and making sure that you are getting enough things like omega-3s from fish so oily fish is really good or a similar omega-3 supplement if you don't want to eat fish but you know protein for me is always the kind of the first thing and then building things because you know women we're likely to be low in iron so you know where's your iron coming from?

44:19You know, you've got to look at if you're having a restricted diet, where's your B12 coming from? Are you getting enough B6? Where's your iodine? Where's your taurine and your choline? And you're, you know, there are just so many other things that you just need to make sure that you're getting a wide variety of foods and ideally food first. You know, I talk a lot about supplements in the book, but they are supplementary. They're not instead of, you know, when you think about what the word supplement actually means it means supplementary too so it's not it's not you can have this or you can take a pill it's like let's do food first pile all the good stuff onto the plate and then see what we might be missing or what's been taken out through food processing or factory farming or intensive you know rearing of you know animals or crops for example and you know then you get into all the spraying with glyphosate and all the other kind of disrupting chemicals that go on.

45:12What can we actually eat? God, it's crazy. Eggs, number one. That would be my thing. Eggs are your number one. I would say because they are the most complete form of protein. They're inexpensive. They're easy. They're versatile. And yeah, it's how I start every day. It was Faye Weldon who drew that amazing advertising slogan. I think it was in the 70s. She used to work for an ad agency and her slogan was go to work on an egg. And then there was a little cartoon, I think, of somebody like bicycling along on an egg. and you know and it is true you know you can go to work on an egg or three and yeah lots of lots of great things you've got to eat the yolk yeah because that's where the goodness is and when you think about what an egg does if it's fertilized it you know it grows into a chicken and all the nutrients needed for that kind of genesis are within the yolk of the egg well this is it like the good fat conversation is necessary because I certainly grew up in like such a toxic time where there was not only a lot of processed foods and ready meals, but it was also like, don't eat fat.

46:10And now I would say my body craves good fat. I'm obsessed with eating nuts and peanut butter. And I've gone back to being veggie. I was vegan for a bit and this pisses off vegans all the time, but it's my story. It's your body, your choice. And I crave like cheese and outside of the veggie conversation, olive oil. Well, my body craves fats more than anything else. And I'm sort of, I think you get to an age where you're much more in tune with, okay, I'm hungry, but what do I really want? And what do I desire? And it's usually what you need. I crave fats. And I think rewriting that whole diet story that we grew up with in the 90s about don't eat fats, have an egg white only omelet and don't eat this, don't eat that.

46:58And actually good fats are so essential for us. Especially for women, because, you know, cholesterol, you know, which is the kind of the good fat, the good building blocks had a very bad press, but it's actually really important. That is the mothership from which all our other hormones are created. Our progesterone, our estrogen, you know, all comes from those healthy fats. And we do need I mean, the body makes the majority of its own cholesterol anyway, but we do need to have good, healthy fats in the diet. And actually, my very first book, which I wrote 35 years ago, was called Vital Oils. and it was totally counterculture because it was all about healthy fats.

47:34Yeah. And at the time it was like, oh my gosh, what are you saying? Everything was low-fat yogurt and low-fat cottage cheese. Oh my God, I remember eating cottage cheese in the 90s. Well, now it's come back. Cottage cheese and pineapple chunks. Everyone's into cottage cheese now because it's high in protein. Right, okay. But full fat, you want really lovely. The full fat stuff. Full fat cottage cheese, yeah, I love that. Hannah, I just Venmo'd you for dinner. Obsessed. I'm literally spending it right now on the lip gloss that's been sitting in my cart. What do you mean spending it right now? You instantly spend your balance with the Venmo debit card.

48:10Stop. Say more. More exactly. The more you do with Venmo, the more you get, like earning up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Get the Venmo debit card or check out online. Venmo Stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. Max$100 per month. See terms at venmo.me slash stashterms. Venmo checkout, not available at all merchants. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Disordered eating messaging is all around us. You can hardly leave your house or check your phone without seeing something about dieting, weight loss, or exercise. With all that pressure, it can be hard to recognize habits have become harmful or even an eating disorder.

48:49If you're concerned you or a loved one might have an eating disorder, I want to introduce you to Equip. Equip is a fully virtual, evidence-based eating disorder treatment program that helps patients achieve lasting recovery at home. Every Equip patient is matched with a multidisciplinary care team that includes a therapist, dietician, medical provider, and mentors, and you get a personalized treatment plan that's tailored to your unique goals and challenges. Equip treats patients of all ages and all eating disorder diagnoses. It's covered by insurance and there's no wait list. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get help.

49:30Visit Equip.Health to learn more. That's Equip.Health. Hi, it's Sarah. I'm the founder of Olive in June. And can I tell you the one thing that always makes my day better? A fresh manicure. But who has the time or the money to go to the salon every week? That's why we created the Olive and June Gel Manny System. It gives you that same mani that you get at a salon for so much less. It comes with everything you need, a pro-level lamp, salon-grade tools, our damage-free gel polish that lasts up to 21 days. All you do is prep, paint, cure, and you're good to go. And the best part, it's super easy and so affordable.

50:06Each mani breaks down to$2. So let's skip that$80 salon appointment and get the salon quality look at home for so much less and on your schedule. Head to oliveandjune.com slash DIYGel20 and use code DIYGel20 for 20 % off your first gel mani system. That's oliveandjune.com slash DIYGel20. Code DIYGel20 for 20 % off your first gel mani system. And then when we move on to exercise, again, I think it's a very confusing time being my age where you're told, do short bursts of HIIT exercise, don't do HIIT exercise, run, don't run. You're like, oh my God, wait, what am I, you know, am I meant to do a bit of everything or stop certain things?

50:51Is there a golden rule to how we should be moving? I think it depends on what works for you because I think, you know, I don't want to be too prescriptive, but I think overall what the body likes is variety. So, you know, in the book I talk about doing my own routine as I do a yoga class on a Saturday, I run maybe twice a week, not for very far because I think you get to a stage certainly when you're older where you overtrain yeah and then it impacts your immune system negatively so you need to do enough to be cardiovascular and to you know help your vo2 max and for kind of to get slightly breathless but not enough you know to to really risk injury that's the other thing weights do you lift weights or do you do push-ups I do a lot of push-ups great I love doing push-ups I'm also in yoga there's a lot of like the chaturanga push-up but I do a lot of that's been my thing in the last few years like body weight stuff I don't lift weights but this is something again that from many of my friends who one of my friends is very into weight lifting and it's changed her life for the better I think yeah so this is key for us at this age yes if you can get into that as a habit I didn't start lifting weights until I was kind of late 50s I wish I'd started early really I really do and I get heavier and heavier and my Christmas present to myself every year is the next size up of dumbbells so I mean how geeky is that but I'm now on I lift so I squat 44 kilos so my my new my new friends are 22 kilos and then I'm kind of working up and you just you just get progressively heavier and the great thing is it doesn't take very much time yeah really quick and it builds not only muscle so it's you know improving the you know the condition of your arms and your shape physically it's enabling you to you know I've got grandkids I'm kind of lifting up and carrying around I feel mentally and emotionally more resilient because I know I'm physically more robust and stronger and it's good for our bones you know we've got to look after our skeletal system as we age because that's what's literally keeping us up and supporting us and also you hear and this is you know if people listening are my age you sort of again it's quite abstract to think of yourself as a much older person but you know I've had people in my life who have been elderly and a fall has been the downfall.

53:04Oh, literally. It's not a big illness. It's not an accident. It's they've had a fall, literally, like from standing up to they've tripped over or something. And that has been the very quick descent from there. So I think leg strength is something that we do need to keep cultivating. You know, if you can just get into the habit of brushing your teeth, standing on one leg, ideally with the wrong hand, because then it's also kind of a good brain exercise. Good for the brain, yeah. But yeah, and then you shut your eyes and that's really hard. That's why I do tend to fall over. You've got to do it next to something that you can hold on to.

53:35But balance, you know, when you think about, you're right, a friend of mine broke her hip recently. She literally just slipped off the curb. So, or you just trip on that last step in the stairs. And you've got to be strong enough to be able to get up when you do fall. But then, you know, let's keep our bones strong so that if you do fall, you know, you kind of bounce. Yeah, absolutely. What I love is, as well as the really like full-on scientific stuffing here and looking at the intricacy of cells, et cetera, towards the end of the book, it is a lot more about stuff that, again, we know, and we could go, yeah, yeah, whatever, but connection, human connection and its importance.

54:11And we know that there's been, certainly since the pandemic, this kind of loneliness epidemic going on, how much it's impacting not only our mental health, but it's actually affecting, again, our cells and our physical bodies. How so in a detrimental way? Very much so. And, you know, there have been studies that show that loneliness is quite literally a killer. You know, people who live on their own. Now, there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. Yeah. Oh, God. Some people would just love to be alone. They're happily single. They're living their own lives and they like their own company.

54:44And that's great. That's different. But when you are feeling lonely or excluded. Yeah. And you talk about blue zones. And, you know, I've been I was filming for this morning, long time ago, looking at all the blue zones. We went to various places, Icaria in Greece and Sardinia. And it is true, there is this strong sense of community. And if you can find your tribe, you know, hopefully you're fortunate enough to have family, if not extended family, your local community, your faith group, your school, your workplace, you know, whatever it is, a local hobby club, it's really important to have people that you can physically connect with.

55:20and also give back. You know, I think when you get to an older stage in life, you kind of think, I don't want to get to the end of my life and think, well, what was all that about? Was that it? You know, did I leave the world a better place, hopefully for me having been in it? What have I learned that I can pass on? And you get so much out of doing something like volunteering. Yeah. Helping other people. It doesn't have to be, you know, giving lots of money to charity. It could be giving your time, giving your knowledge. even for those who can't get out you know you can train to be a samaritan you can help on the end of a phone you know you can do it wherever you are and you feel better for it you know you're producing all those happy chemicals in your brain maybe that is even actually an easier way to initiate that if you are feeling in a bad place because i think back to like a time in my 30s where socializing almost felt unsafe to me because i would spiral so massively after into what have i said was that bad you know I would just so I started to slightly ostracize myself from people and become a bit of a hermit because it was just this is safe I'm home I'm on my own I'm safe because the thought of integrating into any group just felt like that's not doable for me right now but I think actually if I'd had the wherewithal to go oh I could be it doesn't have to be this kind of like we're having small talk moment it could have been that that could have been something very helpful to me back then because I think it's hard when you feel you're out of practice you haven't really socialized for a long time or maybe you're a new mom and you're yeah trying to get yourself back out with adults it can be really laborious yeah and I think you know during the pandemic particularly there was a group you know you've got students or young people starting in the workplace who didn't have that social connection and then going back into it now and I think you know older people can actually play a huge part in that in kind of gathering round and you know maybe learning some of the whizzy tech skills from the younger generation but actually teaching some of the younger people to socialize and actually to interact and what it's like to be in a meeting with somebody or to start a conversation with somebody that you don't know and to feel comfortable with it yeah and also I guess to sort of be all right when it doesn't feel comfortable because yeah I think you know I know somebody who finds it really hard to be around people they would prefer just to be around animals and I totally get it but I also think that But that's potentially because it is hard being in a relationship or a friendship or a friendship group.

57:47It's not always easy. We're not looking for this like it's going to be a perfect sunshiny experience every time you go for lunch with someone, have dinner with mates. There might be a conversation that's a bit irritating or someone's doing something you don't like and being able to rub alongside. That's quite important. No, definitely. And I think also it's important to protect your own space and to know your boundaries as well. Yeah. You know, I've included a little section in the book on how to say no, because I think as women, we're quite bad at that. We are. I've wrote a whole fucking book about it.

58:18I mean, it is so hard. Yeah. When you're a mum and you're trying to do well at work and you've got people. And you feel like you can't say no to anybody. It's really hard. Yeah. If you could go back and sit here right now with your 40 something year old self who was having a really shit time. Yes. What three things would you say to her or advise she changed in her life? I would say number one is prioritise daylight. You know, you really, Liz, you really have to get out more, you know, and I don't mean clubbing. I mean, you get out, you know, you're out more, you're in the morning. I know you're not an early bird, but you're just going to have to suck that one up and get out there or very least open a window.

59:01because being outside, ideally in nature, if you can find a park, if you can find a green space and just enjoy those few moments of enjoying, listening to the birds, looking at the shape of leaves on a tree, just if you can take your shoes and socks off, you know, but you don't need to. It's actually really about connecting with the light. I think the second thing I would say is, oh gosh, which one am I going to choose now? I think sleep is a superpower. if you can prioritise your sleep for me I have a very clear sleep routine the things I do at night I take my magnesium glycinate I put lavender drops on my pillow I sleep with a blackout blind I have my earplugs I have a bit of mouth tape you know for me it's a whole ritual and I'm telling my brain right it's bedtime now anything that's worrying me I write it down on a notepad and I leave it alone I say to my brain you don't need to chew over that at night because I've written on a piece of paper you can come back to it in the morning that's a big one for me get it out of your head Get it out.

59:58And then, you know, the monkey brain will hopefully stop. And I think probably the third one is is lighten up. You know, I've always been quite serious. And and I think, you know, life is for living. I feel very fortunate to be here in my 60s now, you know, with a great young boyfriend who's kind of given me renewed energy and kind of hope in the future and all of that. and took me clubbing for the first time when I was 60 years old, having never been. And so I think I would say, don't shut yourself off to possibilities. Don't think it has to be downhill because life can and will get better. And it may take a bit of time, but the key thing is to prioritize yourself and just to start those little steps because they'll build and build and build and you'll start to feel better and better and your cells will start to respond.

1:00:50Your skin will start to look better. Your eyes will be brighter. you'll have more energy and you'll want more and that is quite simply what I want for all women yes sorry but we need to hear this constantly because the narrative has been forever that women exclusively get to a certain point probably my age and then it's all fucking downhill yeah yeah get ready ladies you've got menopause to look forward to yeah and incontinence and gray hair and you're not going to be attractive you're screwed it's such an awful messaging and I'm lucky I've got lots of intergenerational friendships friends in their 50s 60s 70s I had a friend in her 80s who sadly passed away but they those friendships have been so integral for me to understand that truly to see women going I don't give a fuck anymore I'm having a great time I'm doing what I want to do and that's the message we need to hear rather than just start panicking at my age like oh my god my best years are behind me that's so bleak oh the best years are ahead You know, they seriously are because we know our own minds.

1:01:52We know what we like to do. We know how we like to spend our time. We've gathered hopefully, you know, probably a small but very good group of solid friendships. And yes, life can be shit. Yes, life is challenging and tough. Of course it is. But, you know, how we choose to respond to that is our own, that's our own making. and if we can equip ourselves in the best possible way physically, then everything becomes easier as a result. And it's definitely, I want to be sitting here with you in my 70s, you know, in 10 years going, hey, yeah, my 60s were okay, but boy, do I feel great in my 70s. And then my 80s.

1:02:27Why can't that trajectory continue upwards? I agree. How wonderful for us to contemplate that. It feels like a weirdly new way of thinking and it shouldn't be. It's such a positive way to look at life. It's almost like aging for women is like the last taboo. Yeah. We're not allowed to age, are we? We have to look young and we have to, you know, feel young and be relevant. Otherwise, it's time just to sit quietly over in the corner and let the younger ones take their turn. Well, no, I think that's not right. We've earned it. By the time we get to, you know, 40, 50, 60 beyond, boy, have we earned it.

1:03:02Oh, my God. And now is our time. This is our time to enjoy it. You know, my kids now that I've only got one left doing GCSEs, the rest are all gone. And it's like, bye bye, bye bye. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you for coming. It's like, yes, great. Now it's time for me. Yeah, what does Liz want? This is so exciting. I love it. I just love the messaging of all of it. And I urge everybody listening to this to read the book because we've literally skimmed the surface. It's not possible to have this conversation unless we were to sit here until next Tuesday, because there is so much in there that needs to be read and understood.

1:03:32and I think it's also there's loads of points where they're brilliant springboards to go off and go down a rabbit hole of interest. Oh yeah, exactly. So I've put all the science in there but I've also said, listen, you can skip this bit and there's a little summary at the end of each chapter. Just do this checklist and if you then want to go back and kind of, as you say, go down the rabbit hole into it, then you can. It's great. As I said, I've dogged a million pages and before we wrap up, I mean, there's things I'm even looking at now thinking, oh fuck, I didn't ask about the mouth and all sorts but anyway, we'll have to do a part two.

1:03:58Oh yeah, the oral microbiome, that's a good one. like scrape your tongue totally scrape your tongue every morning and clean your teeth obvs um one thing that we want to do on this podcast is make a playlist of really feel good music maybe this could be a song that makes you feel vibrant and all the things we've talked about today what would that song be that you would put on our playlist oh my gosh um what would I put on your playlist uh so because i i was introduced to kind of clubbing later in life when i was in my 60s i got massively into david getter love is that even how you pronounce it yes it is okay great i'm getting a bit embarrassed here have i said that right um and yeah i mean just some of his tracks you know uh cinema um control you know i just you know you know what's the what are the lyrics of control you know you have to let go of control which is great because you're just it's just about losing control in a good way it's about letting go of all the stuff that has been controlling and holding us down and it's like let's just yeah let's just rock it now i love that and where is your happy place lizelle oh my happy place my happy place is actually sitting in my pond in my garden oh gorgeous is that your cold water exposure yeah it is my cold water yes and I actually dug it at the bottom of my garden for the wildlife and like for the dragonflies and stuff and then one day I looked at it and I thought I could sit in that and yeah so I put in probiotics and stuff which so it's kept really clean and yeah and I go most mornings and I try and watch the sunrise if I'm at home and I just sit in my pond not for very long just for maybe one or two minutes as the sun comes up and I've got some little trees at the bottom of the garden and I just kind of look up at the sky and I'm just so grateful that I have all of that and it just puts me in the right mindset for the day ahead I love it you can imagine me in my pond you in your pond with your with your biohacking in your pond I love it look this has been so fascinating and I know that you know so many of my listeners who are similar age to me or at a point in life where It all feels quite overwhelming.

1:06:13Just need to hear all of this. So thank you so much for your wisdom. Thank you for having me. Oh, my God, Liz. I'm so, I'm like, I'm in love with Liz. I'm just going to put that out there. I just think she's incredible. And we should all be aiming to have that thought that it just gets better. And that's not to be reductive. You know, like, I know shit happens to all of us all the time and life is hard. But we should still be allowed as women to feel optimistic that aging is really exciting and means liberation, expansion, growth and just feeling fucking fabulous. And Liz is that personified, embodied.

1:06:52She sat there sort of glowing, like radiating just gorgeousness and strength and wisdom and just intellect. She's just amazing. Her new book, How to Age, Supercharge Your Health and Feel Better Than Ever, is out now. Go get it. It's brilliant. Right, back in a couple of days' time, we are relentless here at Happy Place at the moment. And it's one you're going to want to listen to if you feel constantly pulled between your work and your family. Or if you have real ambition and drive, but aren't sure what your next steps should be. So a really helpful episode, this one. until then a massive thank you again to Liz to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you take care of yourselves gang

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