Jack Whitehall: “Just act like you’re confident!” How to cope with embarrassing moments

0:00Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that helps build your confidence and resilience. Today, I'm chatting to Jack Whitehall. I did a routine which was like, get it wrong, gotta be strong, which was about powering through the awkward moment, not allowing it to look like you're embarrassed. I don't know who gave me the advice, but it's like, it sounds so brutal. Like, advice with comedy is don't let them taste blood. Like, you just have to make sure that you look like you know what you're doing. Like if you do a joke and it doesn't land, never reference that it hasn't landed.

0:35Because if you have confidence, that's half the battle. The minute you start going, oh God, that didn't work. Oh, you don't like me. Then you're in trouble. Right, everyone. How are you doing? What's going on? Are you like me just feeling peak overwhelm at this time of year? Why is this time of year just because of Christmas so mad? Like what is going on? And I'm also trying to do too many things at the same time, which I also know is my sort of panic response to feeling overwhelmed, I do more things. So for example, on Sunday last week, I decided to book rock climbing for me and my children, followed by a trip to an insanely busy shopping centre.

1:15So my son could go to a party and me and my daughter could go Christmas shopping, which was the worst idea. By the time we got there, my daughter was exhausted, slightly ill, feeling run down. I then was feeling panicked. There was too many people everywhere. It was chaos. What are we doing? Why are we all running around doing so many things? Anyway, I'm going to make a promise to myself to do less this week and to just try and have moments where I'm not feeling completely stressed out all the time, if possible. Maybe we can all stop and just listen to Jack and he's actually got some amazing advice for us in this episode.

1:55I'm going to get to that in a moment but advice that I'm going to take heed of and carry on into my day. So we all know and love Jack. Jack's very well known for his brilliant stand-up and comedy characters in shows like Fresh Meat and Bad Education but in his new show Malice which you can watch now on Amazon Prime he's playing a very different character. This is a thriller so a whole different side of him and he's really quite menacing. We chat about a lot. Jack talks about coming from an acting family and looking for validation from his parents. Also being driven by fear as well as excitement which I very much relate to.

2:34And the one bit with me that's really stuck is around confidence. I don't want to give too much away but he's just got like a really good life hack that he uses for when he's doing stand-up or presenting big award shows that I think we can all use in our actual lives. So listen out for that bit. Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

3:16Jack Whitehall it's very good to see you it's lovely to be here are you well? yeah I think I am well I mean you're in a really busy bit of promoting this excellent new TV show that you're in. So imagining life is chaotic? Yeah, quite chaotic. And yeah, sort of trying to balance that. I just finished a shoot as well. A thriller? A thriller, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that like? Yeah, a thriller was great. It was really fun to do something completely different and play, you know, a character that I could really kind of lose myself in and not just do an extension of myself. But I mean, when we talk about malice in a moment, that's definitely not you.

3:54Yeah. Adam is a very different character. In this thriller, are you playing a bad person, a bad guy? In what? In the thriller now, the new movie you've just shot. Oh, no. Oh, yeah, that one. No, that's a horror film. That's a horror film. That's a horror film. And that I played, yeah, I played like an American guy that was in the military. And it's quite straight as well. So I'm not, again, like cracking gags, which is really weird for me because I always want to just try and like find a little joke here or fall over something. You can't. It's not that type of film. You're meant to just look scared.

4:22I can't watch horror. No. I'm not a big horror person, but I do like it when it's done really well and it's sort of elevated. You know, like weapons. Did you see that movie? I cannot watch anything remotely scary. No? Nope. No? I cannot. You don't like a jump scare? No, I don't like any scare because A, I won't sleep. And I've already got like a bunch of shit I have to do before bed. Like checking that I have to touch all the hobs about eight times. I have to check all the windows a lot. I have to check all the, like a whole thing. If I'd then been freaked out watching a film, that would be checking under all the beds and the cupboards.

4:58I haven't got the time. Yeah, I'm quite like you. And if I watch something and I get that feeling, I then have to sort of palate cleanse by watching something else. So I'll stick on like, you know, some Love is Blind or something. Well, maybe not a tele-tubbies. I went more just sort of reality television or something that I can use to just like cleanse. Yes, exactly. Cleanse with below deck. Yeah, with below deck. But then I get too aroused and then I need to cleanse again. And then I find telly-tubbies. All roads lead to telly-tubbies, yeah. They really do. I also watch horror movies and I do that thing where I know a scary bit's coming and I just do that.

5:35Oh, yeah. Which, as a grown man, is a little undignified. I just think life is already stressful enough. And the news is a horror show. I haven't got the capacity for more horror. So what is your go-to then? to either factual i can invite as long as that's not like horrific okay so you won't go true crime and making a murderer i'm very niche i can do true crime podcast but not tv show what yeah because that's then i can sort of imagine it less horrific correct i'm such free i've just realized but tv wise yeah it's going to be factual um and like inspiring i love kind of like a sports documentary i'm like yeah this is inspiring there's hope in it yeah There's Challenge or a movie.

6:19But not about like an NFL guy shooting his wife. No, that again would be on the no list. No, that's on the no list. That's on the naughty list. Naughty list. He's definitely on the naughty list. Completely. Or just something sort of benign, mildly romantic slash funny. Okay. Yeah. Right. That I'm into. Or, and this is a great segue, malice, perfect for me. There's an element of, it's got thrill and what's going to happen next. And oh, this is a bit dodgy, but there's nothing that's going to stop me from sleeping. Yes. that's true i think so i think it the only thing i would say that it would be problematic for is if you were in the process of hiring a nanny which i was when i was making it and i found quite disturbing and i imagine anyone that watches it is then going to find it quite difficult if that's something that they're then having to do in their real life because you probably would be a little bit spooked i know shit i mean you sat there looking at this person's cv like fact checking everything it was honestly it was like i was vetting someone to join the cia level of questioning i was like so please can you tell me about your relationship with your family and what do you like when you're in the presence of animals and look at these rorschach tests and tell me what you see when you look at these images it was very uh thorough but actually probably you should be that horror as well anyway yes i mean that's kind of the moral of the whole show of malice is that you know we sometimes are willing to maybe put our children into the care of people that we don't know everything about.

7:45That's a big leap of trust. Yes, let's talk about Adam, your character in Malice. He's a sinister little bastard. Yes, he is. Yeah, but that was fun to read through that script and go, yeah, I can do this. Yeah, I mean, it was fun. It was also kind of disturbing that the showrunner thought of me, and I think thought of me right from the get-go. It was like, I think you'd make a really good, you know, evil sociopath. That's probably because you've got a kind face, and that's an interesting combination. You've got like a cheeky kind face. Cheeky kind face. But an inner darkness, maybe, or a void at the centre of my soul.

8:18I've never detected that, but do you think you have? No, I don't think I do, but I do think people have this assumption with comedians that we're all sad clowns and that there is an inner darkness and that we're trying to make people laugh because at our core, it's rotten. So I think maybe that's why people are more accepting of comedians suddenly doing darker material. Yeah, I've heard you talk about this and there doesn't seem to be. You just, you know, you were brought up in a funny household. Yeah. Comedy was commonplace. So, of course, you're going to lean on that in all situations. Yeah.

8:51And I think maybe I've shot myself in the foot a little bit there because if I'd maybe not talked about my life so extensively and been so open about it, if there had been some mystery, you know, then maybe people could have projected that onto me. But because they can't, I've slightly ruined it. No. No, I think it's great. And also acting is a whole other, like, stand up. You know, you're in control there. But acting, you know, it's wherever you want to take it, I guess. And I suppose with Adam, that was great fun for you, doing something completely different and showing a whole other side to yourself.

9:23What was it like? I mean, this is such a great show and you're with this amazing cast, walking onto the set for the first day. David Duchovny's there. I'm a bit older than you, but he's very much our era of like California-cation, X-Files. He was it. You know, I loved watching him on TV growing up. Was that unnerving walking onto set for the first time and you're like face to face with this guy? Yeah, definitely. And I think those experiences I always find way more intimidating than, say, stand up, which I think people find a bit weird. Because it's like stand up, I'm so used to doing it. I've done it for so long and I feel so in my comfort zone when I'm doing it that I very rarely feel any nerves if I'm walking out on stage.

9:59Even if it's in front of, you know, 20 ,000 people, it doesn't make me scared anymore. But doing something like that where I'm really out of my comfort zone and I'm doing a drama and I'm playing a different type of part and I'm doing a scene with someone like David who's really experienced and knows what he's doing and comes really ready and prepared to set and has really thought about the material. In those environments, then I do genuinely have the voice in the head and the imposter syndrome and the fear that I'm not going to be able to pull my weight. so yeah I was I was nervous to go to work every day but the sort of flip side of that is I think those are the best experiences and the most rewarding ones is when you're you're you're feeling really challenged and and uh you know you're working really hard at it and and uh I I found it yeah a really rewarding show to do just because I was feeling at times kind of out of my depth and yeah you know pushing myself I agree I think those the the jobs that I have in the future that I mildly dread, I want to say, are usually the ones where I feel such a sense of achievement afterwards because the dread is actually disguising fear.

11:11It's kind of just going, you don't want to do this. This looks awful. This is going to be a terrible thing. But actually, instead, I'm going, I'm really shitting myself. But the relief the other side and the sense of achievement is great. Yeah, yeah. And it makes you – I really like – I've worked very hard on this and did lots of research and prep and worked with like an acting coach and did lots of rehearsal with the director. And I was also for the first time really playing a competent character. Like everyone else that I play is incompetent. I play lots of fools and idiots who can't do anything and just like say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, falling over all of the time.

11:47And that's quite easy to do. And playing a character that was meant to be able to cook and flair cocktails and Greek dance and he could speak different languages and knew about Greek tragedies. And like, so I had to learn all of these skills and it was a really heavy lift. I was like, it's so much easier just turning up and like just playing in a comedy, improvising sometimes. Are you almost an expert in classics now? I would say definitely not. Still, definitely not. You were very convincing. Yeah, I was convincing. David is though, again, really well read and very intelligent and like you know he went to Harvard and he's very very thoughtful he's intimidatingly intelligent yeah he just seems a great guy I'm glad that you're confirming that for us it's a good thing loves a hilarious British television though as well like yeah I can see that really got into like catchphrase catchphrase yes he was obsessed with catchphrase every day we were rap filming and he would like literally bolt to the car so that he could get home for catchphrase he was like oh it's great with little Mr.

12:48Chips and he comes and Stephen Mulhern he genuinely said Stephen Mulhern Mulhern, that guy, he's got so much talent. Stephen is going to freak out. David Duchovny loves Stephen Mulhern. Sorry, that's an exclusive. I didn't know what today's chat was going to be like, but that is something I was not anticipating. Yeah, he's obsessed. He likes catchphrase. I mean, it is very watchable. It's very watchable. That, I would put in the same sort of category as you've been framed. That's not obviously still on, but I used to love watching that. Like an easy watch, a laugh. Maybe you're using your brain slightly more with catchphrase.

13:18Yes. It's an element of that. I'm imagining David's very good at it. Maybe, yeah. Well, no, because it's British phrases, so he doesn't know any of the phrases as well. So he's learning on the job. But you must have been such a hard watch that you're watching this show. And he loved it, but he didn't understand any of the answers. No. Even when they reveal the catchphrase, he's like, yes, it's just not something that I say. No, because our catchphrases are nonsensical and, like, sometimes hundreds of years. Yeah, what is that? And I had to explain that to him at length, and he didn't even understand what a spanner was.

13:45It was like, you're not going to get it. What do they call a spanner in the States? A spanner, they call it a, not a clutch. A wrench? A wrench. Right, of course. And they don't have spanner in the works. They have another phrase. So you're teaching David stuff too. Yeah. It's very exciting. Your dad obviously was famously an agent for actors for years. Does he come to you and give you advice or give you a critique after a job like Malice? He doesn't give me critique. I mean, he used to be quite hands-on in terms of helping me pick roles and help sort of guide my career. And he still does to an extent.

14:20Like he read the scripts from Alice and really liked them and thought it was a really good project. And so, you know, he definitely influenced my decision in signing up to do it. And yeah, he's not as involved as he used to be, but he's definitely thus far been really great as a person to go to and sort of seek advice because he's got good taste and good instinct. And he's also been very helpful, I think, in the past. you know he said one of the most important things that he always said to his clients was like it's as much about the jobs that you don't do as the jobs that you do and it's important you know knowing when to say no and some things you know will feel like they're enticing and they'll be easy and they'll pay well or you know and you should just interrogate them and make sure that it's the right thing for you to be doing so he's often been really good at that as well sometimes I probably ignored his advice and regretted it.

15:13That's the job of a child. That's what we all do is rebel against our parents. But it's very, very good advice. I think especially when you've talked about this previously, having workaholic tendencies. I certainly do too. I think especially in this weird industry that we work in, obviously I'm in a slightly different area of it to you, but it's always sort of pushed upon us that it's a very competitive arena and that you almost can't say no, that somebody else will step in, fill your shoes quite easily. So all of us are slightly like, oh, my God, I'm never going to work again. Or you turn down one job or you do something wrong, then you're absolutely screwed.

15:47Is part of that drive fear, would you say? Definitely. And I wish I was better at that. I wish I was better at just being able to like sit in those moments when you're not working and still, you know, engage your mind creatively. But like just not be worried about the next thing and be terrified that you're never going to work again. Because that is the nature of this. It is feast and famine. And I think I definitely like fall foul of like allowing that mentality to take over where you're like, that's it. There'll be no more jobs now. Same. I'm going to be unemployed for the rest of my life. Yeah.

16:18I mean, that fear. I mean, I think I don't even know if it's half. There's a portion of my drive that is due to excitement and I creatively want to feel fulfilled. And I love having ideas and seeing them come to life. But then there's another portion over here, which is definitely I could have like three days with nothing in the diary. And I'm like, that's it. I'm done. I'm on the downward spiral now. Like I'm, I don't know what I'm going to think of. The dried up old husk now. Completely. Yeah. In my pajamas. Totally. Watching Catchphrase. Watching with David DeCompany. No, I do think it is a terrifying thought.

16:55And maybe we're very, very, very lucky that that's because we love our job and we just want to keep doing it. Yeah, yeah. the thought of not doing it is pretty horrific yeah yeah it's scary shit yeah yeah so how do you get that balance so how do you you know take heed of your dad's advice say no to certain things can you switch off entirely and just kind of be well yes but i think slightly my problem is that because i have a few different sort of strands to what i do it means whenever i'm not doing one of them i'll then just shift focus and suddenly become obsessed with doing the other thing so if i'm ever like not working for the if that three days happened to me i'd be like i need to get on stage i need to go and do a stand-up gig i need to be a stand-up comedian again i need to write some jokes i haven't really and then that'll sort of take over but i've definitely got better at it the last couple of years now i'm a parent i think enjoying those the times of like rest and and being present at home and and maybe trying to have uh some proper focus on that and uh and realizing that that's where i'm actually getting my energy and joy from so it's definitely yeah shifted in the last couple of years yeah how are you finding that juggle because i know before you had kids there was slight worry that you didn't want to be scheduling in oh and this is my family time you wanted to have enough room for it just to be yeah you know a normal part of your life yeah yeah no it's it's good and it's always hard though it's always a bit of a balance when you're like when you are working you know especially when i was doing malice because it was so intense and i was doing you know days where i'd go to set and film me like you know murdering someone and dumping a body in the thames or having an orgy and then you've got to come home at the end of the day and and switch off and uh you know do bath time and bedtime and that's a good change Read a David Walliams book.

18:48It's a weird... No, that is a gear shift, isn't it? It's... But maybe a good, healthy one. The woman in the Times, in the review of Malice, said, would you want to see Bob Mortimer strangling a cat? No, that's not what Bob Mortimer exists for. And the same is true of Jack Whitehall. Oh, wow. I mean, I think that's a compliment. Yeah. I mean, technically, it's a compliment. Yeah. Technically, you can take that as a compliment. I think we have to look at glass half full here and just say it very much is. But yeah, I think it is. It's a crazy juggle, like just the high octane life that you're leading and then going back to parenthood, which is, as we all know, completely mundane at times.

19:32You do the same thing, especially with a toddler. It's a lot of mundanity. How are you finding that? If you've got a busy brain, I've got a busy brain. That can be tricky. Yeah, it is tricky. But I also think it's great because it sort of pulls you out of your own nonsense in a way that's really like amazing and grounding and joyous. And you're suddenly just like, you know, playing some silly game or chasing them around the sitting room. Yeah. It's really good. Like it's such a it's such a nice way to like decompress and switch off and being present with Elsie is just the best thing in the world.

20:11and it really kind of allows you to like block everything else out in such a glorious way so that's that's one of the huge advantages of being a parent and having having a relationship with your child and and yeah just sort of leaning into that as being the most important thing it's great definitely I find it completely grinding especially with my nearly 13 year old son who you know I could do one of these come home and think I did a great job there like reach off with myself and And then I'll, you know, make him some dinner and he'll go, I'm not eating that. And I'm like, oh, yes, I am an idiot.

20:44As I had forgotten, I'm just a complete moron. He is a constant reminder that I'm actually just an idiot. Quite frankly, don't get too big for your boots. Did your dad like malice? Yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah, yeah. And he said some, yeah, some great, some really nice things about it. And so, yeah, he's someone whose sort of opinion I still really value very, very highly. So it's always great when something is passed the sort of Michael Whitehall test. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is often when you're in this job, I still think this about maybe both my parents, actually, is that there is still a bit of you that is, even when you're in your 40s, wanting to get validation from your parents.

21:31It doesn't matter how successful you are, how old you are. Yes, some of it is because you want feedback from everybody else, but there is still that. And it might not be for people listening. It could be, you know, someone at school that bullied them or a teacher that said they wouldn't, you know, do well. But it can very often be your parents that you're still trying to get that level of validation from. Yeah, definitely. And I think for me, like, that was always the case, like, when I first started out was getting their validation. And certainly my dad. I feel like that's probably why I ended up becoming a comedian is because he just didn't laugh at anything.

22:04And he's just, he's always been like an inward laugher and he's got a great sense of humour, but he's just never bothered to tell his face. And so just, I was always, I think, just trying to get him to crack a smile. And that's what happens if you have a father with that face. Then you become a stand-up comedian. That's so great. But growing up in that sort of household where comedy is omnipresent and it's something you perhaps lean on, would you say it was quite a good tool for maybe diffusing conflict or for jollying yourself if you were having a tough time? Was it used quite liberally like that?

22:43Yeah, yeah, I think so. And I think, yeah, comedy is a great tool for all of those things and, yeah, many other things. I worry now that comedy is going to cease being a tool to mass deception because of the traitors and Alan Carr. Yeah, that's a big issue. He's done us dirty because we could use it to just distract from anything and now I think people are going to suspect us all. We've seen. We've been sussed out. We're never going to be able to lie again. No, you're fucked. It's a terrible shame. Yeah, it's really exposed how it can be used for deception. Yeah. Do you still use it now, would you say?

23:23if like I don't know whether it's to diffuse embarrassment or to oh yeah just you know or an argument if you don't want to have an argument or you don't have any some conflict just try and turn it into a joke just try and turn anything into a joke or in your yeah yeah in any sort of stressful situation I'll try and deploy it it's handy I mean there's moments where obviously you shouldn't use it like you know uh immigration in the airport like that's a time that's just never never use it no even if you think it will diffuse an awkward interaction it's just they don't want a joke they never want a joke they've not got the time or the inclination quite frankly no i mean i think it is it's a very handy tool i should have remembered that this morning on the school run where it's just a fucking shit show again just every school run is a shit show yeah And I sort of forget humour.

24:19Yeah. Forget it in those moments. Yes. And I regret it. Yeah. It's so needed. Would you say it's... A well-timed fart. Yeah. And it would all diffuse. Just anything. I was just such a grumpy old gal this morning. Is there... Are there times where you use it to stop yourself looking at something you should look at or from feeling a feeling? Is it ever used as a bit of a buffer when actually you could do with looking at the serious nature of things? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I think probably it is. It is. And there are moments where you probably should, one should be a little bit more serious or like try and engage in a more constructive conversation rather than just trying to deflect or make light of a situation.

25:01For sure. But it's hard to know until it's too late. Yeah, it is. But I think it's just something that we all lack a bit. You know, we just need to have more moments of belly laughter and it's like the best feeling ever. I think that's why stand-up is just still so hugely successful. You know, we see comedians in this day and age playing in stadiums because we need a break from our reality. Oh, 100%. We need to go and sit and watch something that's going to make us really belly laugh. What makes you laugh? Is it, you know, stand-up comedy? Does that get you anymore? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still love watching stand-up comedy and great kind of sitcoms.

25:40And, yeah, I love comedy and I love it as, yeah, I think that is it's you know it is this great form of escapism and as you say like in the sort of bleak times that we live in it is a wonderful thing to be able to go and you know for a night especially like if you are exhausted and you're being moody doing the school run and you get this opportunity to just like outsource it get someone else to put in the effort and uh and make you laugh for an hour and an hour and a half. And so, yeah, I think, you know, that's the great joy of comedy. I mean, you went from obviously being in this family where, you know, you see the acting world, you see that whole sort of entertainment business around you.

26:28You specifically chose to start with stand-up. It's quite a harsh, it's a brutal entry into that entertainment world because your feedback is instant, unlike TV. Now, I started on TV, but there was no social media. So when I was a kid, I didn't know if I was good, terrible, if people liked me, didn't like me. I just did it and then went home and hoped for the best. You know, I continued to have a job. But with stand up, the reaction is so instant. How was that initially to kind of get that that level of feedback, good or bad? Yeah, I mean, I think because I started so young, I was quite resilient and thick skin for some reason.

27:03I don't know why. I think it was just like the I was just probably quite cocky. and I don't know, like, thought, I don't know, maybe there was a slight naivety as well that I was doing it and that I was getting better even though it maybe wasn't going quite as well as I thought it was in my head. And maybe you have to, because the first gigs always don't go that well, and then you sort of gradually improve. I don't know. I wasn't deterred by dying on stage. Which is amazing. Which is probably quite helpful. Yeah, yeah. I don't know many people that would pick themselves back up from that instantly and think, I'm going to do that again.

27:43But there has to be some kind of weird cognitive disconnect because it's not natural. It's not natural to go off and tell jokes and seek the approval of an audience and not get it and be fine with that. That is something, the wiring is slightly off. But it's an amazing bit of resilience. That's for sure. Yeah. I do. And I find it now as well. It is great. like when you go and like I had this experience recently where I went and did this award show where I died I literally died I every joke nothing why were they just a flat audience well no it was an it was it was I mean it was quite a hard context it was I mean you probably saw me when I used to do the fashion awards yeah yeah yeah tough room yeah real tough crowd but I sometimes was able to like milk a little bit out of that audience people sort of chatting with each other yeah they're a bit pissed they're sort of not bothered about anything going on around them so you've got to really get their attention and they're all looking at each other and yeah you know it's anna winter in the front row it's a tough crowd and i did that for like five years and anyway one of the people that was there thought that i'd done a good job and so he booked me to do this uh jewelry awards in in monaco which i went and hosted and i was like what am i going to talk about jewelry awards and it was the week of the louvre heist so i was like great that's my monologue i'll just do a load of louvre jokes and so i turned up and uh it was in this like ballroom in monaco black tie everyone was french and french speaking i was the only person on stage speaking in english which they hadn't told me before and i was like i probably should have like maybe translated some of this into french because they're gonna get it and they're like oh no no it's fine they're multilingual they're very intelligent they'll they'll understand it i had an ominous feeling before i went out but it's kind of too late by that point and then the woman that went out before me was like that anna winter of jewelry and she gave a long speech in french that subsequently i found out she talked about the louvre heist and how it was one of the greatest tragedies to ever befall the people of france and the nation would rally together and get through this difficult moment and then it was like and ladies and gentlemen jack whitehall and i came on in like a high-vis vest with a load of prop jewelry i brought on sheen and did a load of heist jokes like it was 10 minutes of jokes like wow this feels like we're at oceans 11 but hey there's not gonna be two heists in a week is there oh no silence tumbleweed and then you've got to keep coming back out you've got to keep coming back out because you're you're there for two and a half hours i feel sick for the past version of you yeah to do that but then again like again i sort of like i got to the end of it and i got through it and i was fine i was like what is that about i don't know and and there's something really like i don't know something gives you like having that resilience to not care i want that how do i get that i really think it has to happen a lot of times maybe that's what has to happen you have to do it quite a few times because i don't need to get a experience i mean i can do it i could host an awards thing i don't obviously you might want to get one or two laughs but i'm certainly not there to be funny you're there to just like make it a seamless event and if if that happens great and obviously i've had flops where you know you do a an award those award things are the pits yeah i hate doing them i so rarely do them just because of that it probably is the feeling that you don't mind i cannot live with if things have gone badly yeah yeah or even if i've done i mean it's been very rare it'd have to be a guest that really doesn't like speaking but something like this when you feel like oh that it could have been better or it was just a bit off or I wasn't on my A game.

31:19That does not sit well with me. I will probably feel a bit weird all day. I'll be overthinking it and I won't be able to sleep because I'll be playing it over in my head and correcting all the bits that went wrong. Like it will plague me for yonks. It's the worst. Or radio when I used to do live radio. You say all sorts of stupid shit by mistake and then you literally wake up at four in the morning a month later. You don't have that. Well, I think I don't have it anymore just because I've, you know, I've done it so many. You've exhausted it. and I don't have the like emotional capacity anymore to like let it like get me really down.

31:53It's like the Brits, I've done the Brits like five times, which is a really tough room. Tough gig. And there's moments where you're doing jokes and no one is listening to you and you can just see everyone like drunk at their tables having conversations amongst each other and then you're just sort of this like separate entity in the corner of the room like desperate for their attention. I think maybe the first couple of times at the end I was like, oh God, was that all right? and there was some stuff that just didn't land at all. And then by the fifth time that I did it, I was like, it is what it is.

32:21And I'm sort of doing it for the audience at home as much as the people in this room. And they all seem like they're having a good night. As long as I'm not ruining their night, then it's fine. How does it not impact your confidence in the moment? Because I think that's the thing that I would find very tricky doing a gig like the Brits, where you're not getting that reaction that you want, that it's not in real time impacting your level of self-esteem. Well, maybe it is on some level. But I always think, I don't know who gave me the advice, but it's like, it sounds so brutal. Like, advice with comedy is don't let them taste blood.

32:57Like, you just have to make sure that you look like you know what you're doing, even if it's going badly. Never, like, if you do a joke and it doesn't land, never reference that it hasn't landed. Just, like, forge on. Because if you have confidence, that's, like, half the battle. yeah and like the minute you start wavering and looking like you don't know what you're doing and start referencing things that didn't land as well as you thought they might land you can it can still work and you can still you know maybe win the room back or some stuff will the minute you start going oh god that didn't work oh you don't like me then is you're in trouble and it's you're dead so you've got to just like i don't know like forge through and and there's moments like especially when you're doing those like live shows where you think something hasn't landed but actually it it i don't know just like it you didn't hear as big a laugh as you thought it was going to get but it's actually something that people did enjoy and they just you know it was just a michael whitehall laugh where they internalized it an inner laugh yeah no i think that's so true there's nothing worse than watching if you're either watching one of those big things like the brits at home on the tv or you've gone to stand up and you know that person isn't fully committed you can tell you feel You're like unsafe.

34:13I'm sort of like praying for them. Yeah, worried for them. I'm watching. Yeah, like panicking. Yeah, yeah. But you're so right. If you see someone's got that level of confidence and they're unstoppable, you're like, well, we're in safe hands. This is all fine. Even if it's not landing. Yes. I think in France, when I was doing the, in Monaco, sorry, when I was doing that show, I think maybe it was fine because by the end of the night, because they didn't speak, English wasn't their first language and they maybe weren't like getting all of the jokes and probably a lot of them didn't know who I was.

34:40there is a world where by the end of the evening some of them just didn't think it was ever meant to be funny they just thought oh this guy's like a presenter and i guess he's quite slick and he's saying these things and none of them i'm laughing at it it's just sort of information like useless information but he's kind of there's a there's a confidence there and everything sort of ran on time and he introduced everyone when they were meant to be introduced and said their names correctly albeit mispronouncing quite a few of them and he knows what he's doing and so maybe that's why it was actually fine yeah whereas if i'd gone oh god that didn't work and why aren't you laughing then it would have been a complete car crash yeah so maybe just just forge through and you can get away with it i think we need to just do that in life more because i think so often other people whether it's in the work environment or even in like friendships they feel unsafe or and certain because they're picking up your cues that you are sort of flailing are you as confident in outside of work i used to have a routine about that i used to love to i did a routine which was like it was like get it wrong got to be strong which was about powering through the awkward moments and not not allowing it to look like you're embarrassed yeah i can't but i and i think there's there's definitely some truth to that it's like it can be it can be quite i mean it's hard to It's hard.

36:06It's very one thing saying it and then one thing actually enacting it in real life. Yeah. But yeah. Embarrassment is like I hate being embarrassed. I really don't like it. In those moments, I'm not good at then pretending everything's OK. It sort of floors me. It's not fun. No. It could be as simple as like you've done a fart. Yeah. It's just not. You don't want to. How do you style it out? It's not great. Yeah. You've got to have real conviction to get through moments like that. Yeah, that is bad. It is. I did that the other day when I was in a lift and I thought I was going to be alone in the lift.

36:41And then I let riff. And then someone joined me and you're like, fuck. And then it's just, it's so awkward. It's almost a cliche. And you don't want to get out sooner. And if you get out too quickly, then you've locked them in it on their own. And it's obvious that you did it. And it's so obvious. And you're on the wrong floor. And you're on the wrong floor. Yeah, that's not good. It's really not good. Let's talk about your early days of TV because obviously then you started to make this transition, which started off on Big Brother's Little Brother. That was your first big live TV gig. You were only 19 at the time.

37:13And much like my early TV career, I mean, we're teenagers. You don't know who you are. You've got absolutely no idea. I remember being maybe 16, 17, doing live TV. You're at an awkward age anyway because you're kind of a kid, but you think you're an adult. And you're sort of, you know, going between being like introducing cartoons to then drinking Jack Daniels out of a Robinson's orange juice bottle in the park. You're just going between the two worlds. And I would just think, how would Zoe Ball do this? Because she is still my hero. And I would just be like, what would Zoe Ball say? How would she act?

37:48What would her body move like? And you're just trying to find who the hell you are. How did you feel during that bit of your career? yeah I was I was exactly the same and it was weird because we you know you were the same like we're sort of slightly growing up on television and you're you're in that stage of your life where you're sort of trying to work out your own persona not just your television persona and I was definitely quite awkward in my own skin and and and was trying to find like my own voice in life as much as I was my own voice as a presenter or a comedian and so yeah I was doing, you know, E4 and Big Brother's Big Mouth and like various sort of Channel 4 shows as well, where I was there with a sort of spiky hair and affecting a Cockney accent because I didn't want to sound posh and wearing this sort of skinny jeans and trying to act cool and like, I don't know, emulate other people that I'd seen on television as well.

38:45I was trying to be less Cockney and sound a bit posher. Yes. I think that's what I was trying to do. Yeah. We were swapping roles. yeah at what point do you think i'm just gonna lean into posh um i think where yeah i don't know when i when i did really it was sort of i tried lots of different personas on stage and i'd done yeah like i'd done cockney i'd done a sort of jack d tribute app where i'd done like deadpan one-liners and i did a i did a version of myself on stage where i came on in like a parker jacket I looked like Kenny from South Park and did like poems it was like I tried everything and everyone kept saying oh yeah you're a good writer Jack but you just haven't found your voice yet I was like well what is my voice can you tell me please and they were like it doesn't work like that you need to find it I was like stop giving me fucking riddles just tell me what it is and yeah it led me to sort of finding a guest just a slightly more authentic version of myself and then yeah realising that that could be an angle because I think as a comedian on stage you need a sort of some usp or some angle into all of the jokes so that you have like your own distinctive comic motor and for me it was always about being young and all of my material was about being young and how i was still living at home with my mom and dad and then a sort of slow dawning uh realization that that had a limited shelf life comedians would be like you know you aren't going to be able to do these jokes forever and i was like oh yeah i'm gonna need to find a fresh angle and and then i sort of started embracing this like posh boy act and realized that i could send that up and i could use that as a sort of route into all of the material and then yeah it was incremental like you can definitely see like the stages of it where the sort of the begins to creep in but there's still the the odd cockney affectation i haven't quite like uh you know made the full the full full shift into like the version of myself that I then settled with but yeah it was definitely a couple of years but like you say you're doing that on screen and off screen and it's equally as lovely you know whoever's listening to this and certainly I found this just in my actual life to know who you are yeah and to feel confident enough to just be that person because I think especially when you're doing a presenting role if you get critique it's not necessarily about you're good at the job people are critiquing you you as a person and your personality and i've historically found that really hard and therefore there was too much weight this end of the scale of like what do people think of me do they like me am i am i a likable person and that makes everything so impossible because you actually end up diluting who you are as a human just so you're more palatable for as many people as possible which ends up being exhausting because it's just you're constantly overthinking everything yeah you're never going to please everybody yeah so when you land on a level of comfort just being yourself and you're like this is what i'm going to do whether i'm in a good mood bad mood a quiet mood an extrovert mood i'm just going to show up as me there is a level of relaxation to that because there's there's less effort involved but it does mean then you've got to mitigate you know outside commentary with people that don't like you or don't like your act or your shtick how how do you deal with that in the same way that you would in stand-up that just oh people didn't like it yeah i mean i think again like it's something that i've got slightly better at but you're right when you're a presenter or a comedian and it does it's it's so much more personal the the the critique and it is like it does feel sometimes like a direct attack yeah on your personality but the reality is that it's like a section of your personality as well and that's what you i guess have to remember is that you're presenting this version of yourself which is the the most like normally extroverted confident 100 version of you and then you're in real life much more like multifaceted and there's you know more kind of i don't know like nuance to you as a person and that's not a part of you that they're seeing and there is a there's like a like more a more personal part of you that you don't kind of show to to the public and that it is not being critiqued I guess I mean I probably started a little bit after you but it was like yeah it was pre-social media you have to seek out the the negativity a little more I'm so glad yeah I mean I'm glad for you too that initiation was quiet you know we didn't have to deal with an onslaught of people going you're shit i don't like you on the telly we just did it and if we kept the job we kept the job i still found it though i dig around in like digital spy forums to find some hate which was probably quite useful for the world that we then moved into exactly but i was well well versed in finding it i always remember i found a thread when i was doing big brothers um big mouth about me being a terrible presenter and then someone had done a sub thread on one of these forums saying does jack whitehall have a glass eye and there was a whole discussion about whether i had a glass eye or not because when i read the autocue it looked like one of my eyes wasn't moving and i remember that like living rent-free in my head for the next like six weeks and every time i did something i was like and then obviously everyone was like why does he look so weird when he's reading the autocue like normal presenters just say it and he looks like he's actually reading it and i was like yes because someone else said that my eye didn't move enough and I had a glass eye.

44:29I was like, that's what I was like. And that was just like a forum. Imagine if Twitter had existed back then. I would have been, it would have been a disaster. It would have been an Wikipedia page that you had a glass eye. I mean, it's wild. But it's also mad how that shit stays in your head. I know. I bet if I said now, tell me one amazing thing you've had on Instagram about yourself, you couldn't pick up. Oh, no, nothing. I wouldn't know anything. the glass I comment and Bob Mortimer strangling a cat like those things will yeah they stay in there it's so bad why did the shit one stay I hate it I can remember stuff human nature like verbatim remember sentences that I read we used to have at Radio 1 you had Twitter always up because you were communicating and getting like material for your show but then also we had like a text index that would just be constant text messages and I had to really watch myself becoming obsessed with that because it was just a live commentary of what you were doing on air and i was on it for three hours every day but i can remember like total one lines that were sent in that just stay with you forever just they're like just quietly torturing me just to it's the pits we don't remember the good stuff no no you don't and any any praise that you you read is just in one ear out the other yeah maybe that's a good thing the other glass one but i think that's good i'm always a bit suspicious of any feedback good or bad because i think if you're going to take note of the applause and the constant validation you're naturally going to be looking for that negativity too i think they come hand in hand i think if you can just be almost a distance back from all of it that's perhaps the most sensible thing to do because I think as soon as you start taking on praise seriously, that can be equally as dangerous.

46:24That's equally bad, 100%. Do you think you've had any moments of that where you've been like a bitch off with yourself? I don't think I get enough of it. I think it would be really hard to have had that moment. I don't think I've ever done anything where I've had a lot of praise. Of course. No, I don't. I don't think I've ever done anything where it's been like rave reviews and everyone says it's amazing. I think of course when you've done like big stand-up shows or when you or the Brits that's a hard gig everyone knows that it's like Jack did a great job yeah no? no well maybe yeah but I clearly haven't taken on board any of the praise no because again like yeah I've forgotten about it but I love hearing about people where they go I just don't read anything oh I wish I was like that I wish I was like that it would be so hard yeah I know I still look on Instagram like what are people saying it's terrible like we know we shouldn't do it and it is sort of like a passing fleeting thought in someone's head they are not thinking about it for in the morning two months later they're just not but we are but it's hard to remember that but those people that are like zen about it and don't you know don't have a phone and don't look at anything and I'm like oh that would be so great that would be such to be like Ed Sheeran I'd just be capable of it Ed Sheeran yeah he does that no phone Daisy May Cooper yeah no phone but they could have a phone everything they do gets praised they should get phones they should get phones they're so good about themselves it's people like us we should get rid of our phones exactly it's ridiculous so there's obviously this constant desire for you to keep challenging yourself we've seen that with the last well certainly with Malice that's a completely different role for you you've just done a horror film again you want to step outside your comfort zone again and again and again what's that about?

48:14what is that drive? because you could quite easily live in the comfort land of doing stand-up and going like you said no nerves you step on stage you've got a receptive crowd you've got a fan base who will come to your shows again and again what's the the desire to keep stepping out of that comfort zone or moving further from it i think it's just to sort of yeah like find interesting new challenges i mean i love stand-up but the slight problem with stand-up is that you like i don't know there's a bit of a ceiling to it you can only do i don't know maybe maybe that's not true maybe i could write an incredible show where i i don't know like bear all and dig into but i don't have that show in me at the moment so maybe that's partly the the desire to like find my challenges elsewhere and with acting i guess you can just have this this amazing variety of of projects and genres and you know I can try and step into these these projects that are very different and that excites me I do feel like as well like it's definitely not me wanting to completely turn my back on the stuff that I've already done and I love doing comedy and I'm you know would love to do another sitcom at some point or do a big broad comedy movie but I think it's just the variety of it that's the thing that really excites me about being an actor is that you yeah you get this opportunity to to to play in completely different things also the on the fact that you're doing it with other people I think is is great and the thing that I do slightly miss when I do stand up is that it is very solitary yeah and I love like working with an ensemble of people and different actors and writers and I love being collaborative and I love the opportunity to get to do that when you when you step onto a new project and you form this little family and you go through the the creative journey with them i really enjoy that i think with stand-up increasingly i've been able to build a little bit of that and you know i like working with the director and i've got a tour manager that i always work with and you know the same support app for the last kind of six or seven years so i i have built a little bit of a crew which i really like and and makes it so much more enjoyable but i think uh being part of a cast is is great like Some of my, you know, favourite memories of my career have been doing things like Fresh Meat, where I was working with like five of my best mates.

50:35And we were we were doing this show and experiencing it together and living in Manchester, basically like students whilst we were also doing the show. And it was amazing. And so many of the memories are because I was doing it with them and with people that I loved. And I feel so thankful that I, you know, had the opportunity to do something like that. yeah what's the is there a big goal like an not an end goal but is there do you have your sights set on and this is where i want to be in 10 years do you ever have a plan like that well yeah but you just can't really have one when you when you do do this because you're so sort of beholden to other gatekeepers and you're like you're just reliant on you know going and auditioning for something and winning work and uh getting cast in something or someone giving you the opportunity to do something that you want to do so it's it feels quite hard to like like carve a career path or know where it's going to lead or what you want to do i mean i sort of would just be happy with more of the same i'd love to be able to to do another big drama on a streamer it would be really cool to do something of the scale of malice and the ambition of malice with like that quality of writing and working with those like that level of creative that i i'm like you know really impressed by and excited to go to work with like I'd love the opportunity to be able to do that again I'd love to be able to do another movie like Jungle Cruise where I can be on a set of like a big studio movie and doing stunts and working with someone like Dwayne Johnson or Emily Blunt again really exciting experience so yeah I just I'd love to be able to keep doing that and it's just yeah maintaining that yeah I mean looking back to when you were you know say 19 starting out on tv and working out where where you were going to go what the route was did you have an idea that if you reached a certain level of success then you would feel differently about yourself or you it would boost your confidence or that you would feel validated in some way or do you think you've always been quite level-headed about what success means uh yeah I mean I don't I do think that's definitely something that I'm sort of still in the process of like processing, I guess, is this thing that even when you get to the thing that you thought would be the sort of mountaintop and you'd be like, great, I've done that.

52:57You don't necessarily get that validation and that piece. So you're then just on to the next thing. It never comes. There's another mountain. There's another mountain that's bigger. and so yeah I sort of feel like I'm still probably in that period of my life where I haven't quite worked that out yet for myself and and probably that's a longer journey yeah um but yeah and you can sort of you know talk to people that are maybe a little bit older and have been through that experience and are sort of out out the other end and they talk you know talk about it retrospectively but even them sort of talking to you about it like you have to experience it for yourself i think and you have to chase after everything and realize that there are going to be things that that you do in your career that you think are gonna i don't know yeah give you that sense of sort of closure but that then they turn out not to yeah yeah i i sort of had like a mini version of it i think in my presenting career which i sort of have abandoned temporarily i don't know i'm not really sure if i'm going back to doing any of that anytime soon but i certainly haven't done it for a long time and i think from that very young age i would look at ant and deck and think if i can just be like deck then i'm gonna feel amazing and everything's gonna be fine and all my problems will go not as not as reductive as that but i definitely had that starry eye syndrome of if i can just be like ant and deck and then i think you know there was times where i was doing loads of really exciting tv and hosting things and doing radio and I was at points thinking this is when I should be feeling like yeah I've done it like I've cracked it I'm successful or whatever those dreams were back in the day yeah and I think it was deflating to realize that that wasn't gonna happen and if anything I'm sort of on rung one of the ladder again now in a whole new thing doing this and the happy place stuff and working out where I'm gonna take it but I think slightly differently that I know even if this was like the biggest brand or podcast on the planet I would still be me with my flaws and failings and issues and like none of it would really matter and yes maybe like a few more important people would go I'll come on your podcast or how can I help you in business but that's only that's not because of me or who I am it's because of the image that's projected out there yeah it is I think it can be quite a deflating moment when you realize it and I've had like a mini version because I'm not in like the whole acting world.

55:32But it's an interesting one when you look at how much of your self-worth, I guess, is wrapped up in the end result or what you've achieved. I guess like the journey that I've been on with everything I've just said, right? So say if I get in a cab. Yeah. Or like, oh, I had like a lovely electrician come and try and sort out my tumble dryer and washing machine at the weekend. And he was like, oh, me and my wife used to love you on Celebrity Juice. Are you just chilling out now? I'm like. I know. That's yeah. So it never works. I've never been working so hard in my life. Like I've never been busier.

56:01But obviously what I do now is less visible mainstream wise. I'm talking to different people. It's a different audience. But it's your ego in those moments that gets dented. Nothing else. It's just your ego of like, oh, am I irrelevant? Have I disappeared? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want fame to be a non-event. Like you're not paying any attention. But then it sneaks in. What's your relationship been like with fame? I have moments like that. Because it definitely shows that I've stopped doing. especially because I've maybe curtailed like a degree of like the sort of end stuff that I used to do like League of the Road and things like that which definitely means that to a certain audience I'm dead now I've been pursuing other things and maybe they're they're they're not watching those so your man in the pub I don't think is uh thinking that I am uh as active as I used to be and I've been reminded of that a few times what the fuck happened to you

56:59sometimes it's like really harrowing as well when it's a show that you haven't done for like a decade i had that we used to love you on what the week i was like that got cancelled nearly a decade ago when someone comes up and goes i used to love only in america that was 20 20 years ago 20 years ago so you've not seen me on tv since okay fine no biggie um yeah harrowing very grounding but hello the kids as well sometimes sorry i have it i was getting um a salad from the salad project the other day and the young gentleman doing the dressing he's like when are you going to do another collab with the sidemen and it was the only thing he knew me from was a youtube video that i'd done with the sidemen and there's there's definitely like a younger demographic where that is i i've only ever existed yes for this brief window of about 20 minutes when I did a YouTube video in the Sidemen.

57:57Yeah. My kids don't understand. What I do is completely boring and irrelevant to them. But one of my videos from this podcast, I don't know what it was, was on TikTok. Yeah. And my kids were like, you're on TikTok? How are you on TikTok? Like they couldn't believe it. Yeah. So yes, there are audiences that we're not tapping up. Yeah. But it's great when you break through and suddenly you realise that no matter what you've achieved in your career, that you will have some friends the most proud they've ever been of you is because you were a clip on Hunsnet. The pinnacle. The pinnacle. But even on my journey from home to here, I think I saw your face looking menacing on three bus stops.

58:39That's good. Yeah, you're everywhere. Have you spotted yourself yet? I've seen myself. Yeah. I've seen myself on some bus stops, which is always quite surreal. Looking so mean. Looking very mean and quite photoshopped. Are you? Tweet. definitely that those jawbones have been tickled up surely surely you can notice that in person so great yeah maybe i just starved myself when i when i was doing malice in actual better yeah um where would you say your happy place is jack whitehall my happy place um i mean just because it was yesterday like i love a sunday lunch with roxy and elsie and just yeah just being in england as well because i spend a lot of time around the world and just there's nowhere else where you can go and have that experience really and just sit in a pub and have a pint of guinness and have a sunday roast with uh with my daughter and and my fiance and that just makes me so happy and it's like the thing that I look forward to the most when I'm away or I'm working away and it's the thing that I sort of pine for.

59:49And yeah. I love a good Sunday lunch. I cooked one at my house the other day. Everyone turned up at one to eat for half two. They left at half nine. Half nine? Half nine. Were you? Arguably too long. That's too long. Yeah. That's definitely too long. At about seven I was like, I can't believe we're still here. Were you doing some sort of Passag clearing up? I mean, you've probably done the Passag clearing up hours ago. No, I left it till the next morning. Yeah. It was just one of those ones that went on. But again, love. Yeah. That was Sunday lunch. Oh, it's so good. Is your... And the one pint I've realised as well.

1:00:21It's like, I've realised this as well as a parent now. It's like, I appreciate alcohol in a completely different way. Like, you know, most of my 20s and early 30s, I was a binge drinker and loved just going out to get drunk. And now, just the joy of like, that one pint to take the edge off, you know, and suddenly like the tantrum is just that much quieter and everything is fine it's great even yeah because at two are we are we sitting in a high chair throughout the whole sunday lunch we're sort of standing in a high chair we're we're chucking our food around we're screaming you know we're getting a yorkshire pudding in the eye yeah i had a pint and i was just like everything's everything's okay everything's okay and that doesn't exist like that's the thing i yeah because i you know spent half of the year in America doing this show in America and there's just not as much of that like pint culture really.

1:01:16No. It's all coffees. No Yorkshire Puddings. No. No Yorkshire Puddings either. I don't know what they are. No. I've got no clue. No clue about spanners or Yorkshire Puddings. No. None of it. Or day drinking. No. Exactly. During the week. We must educate them. Yeah. Jack it's been so lovely to talk to you. Good luck with Malice and this horror film that sounds awful. I won't watch that. No. But good luck with it. And thank you for being on the workplace. Thanks for having me on. it's been great see I absolutely loved that bit of the chat where Jack was talking about just looking like you know what you're saying and looking like you've got confidence and if a joke doesn't land well just plowing on and although not many of us will have the opportunity to stand up and do comedy on a stage I think we can use that for like so many situations I'm thinking even about parenting sometimes I know my kids are going she doesn't know what She's talking about, I need to act better and act like I really do know.

1:02:11I mean, I don't know, but I can at least pretend. You can watch Jack in Malice on Amazon Prime. Also, if you could hear my stomach rumbling during that, I'm sorry. And also, I'm wearing PVC trousers. I'm an idiot. Why did I wear PVC trousers to record a podcast? I had to sit so still to the point where I had pins and needles in my right foot. Now, we are heading into December. I know, can you believe it? It's ridiculous. A new month means a new book for us all to read with the Happy Place Book Club. We're going to be reading Fundamentally by Nasaiba Yunus. In this novel, Nadia is an academic who's been disowned by her puritanical mother and dumped by her lover, Rosie.

1:02:58So she just decides to make a getaway, accepting a UN job in Iraq. Now, this is such a funny book. I was laughing from page one. It's so brilliant. Meanwhile, in the story, Sarah is a precocious and sweary East Londoner who joined ISIS at just 15. And Nadia is struck by how similar they are, both feisty and opinionated from a Muslim background with a shared love of dairy milk and rude pickup lines. It's a powerful book, but as I said, it is so laugh out loud, funny and so brilliantly written. I think you're going to love this book. It's a real good bit of escapism for December. I'd love it if you'd read along with us.

1:03:39So come and have a chat about the book on Instagram at happyplacebookclub. I'm excited about this one, as you can tell. Right, until next time we chat, a massive thanks again to Jack Whitehall, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, you are the best.

1:04:04Thank you.