Jason Donovan: Reinvention, creating luck, and floppy flowers

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that lets everyone define who they want to be. Today, we're back at the Happy Place Festival in Chiswick, and I'm chatting to the one and only Jason Donovan. I was very conscious of taking advantage of the road that was sort of set out for me, but was it the road that I wanted to be? So I tried to ruin my image a little. I was trying to reinvent myself, but I couldn't in a way, and I was a bit stuck. But the good news is I now know what I don't want to do. I know my boundaries and I know that I'm a decent person and I know I've fucked up a bit along the way.

0:43But what human being doesn't? Jason came into our lives and oh my gosh, he certainly played a big part in my life in the late 80s as Scott Robinson in Neighbours. He had loads of hits with songs too, like Too Many Broken Hearts. It still makes me tingle even saying that title out loud. Absolute banger. and had the best-selling album of 1989. I mean, that's huge. He then did a record-breaking run in the musical Joseph in the early 80s, which, of course, I went to see, which kick-started a huge career in musical theatre. He's going to be back on stage, actually, in the UK in the Rocky Horror Show later this year.

1:27And then he's out on a solo music tour, doing fine, 25 next year. He is so busy. So let me paint the scene, OK? It's the last conversation happening on the talk stage at Chiswick House and Gardens at the Happy Place Festival. The sun is blazing down on all of the gorgeous people, spilling out of the tent, waiting to see Jason. The tent is right by a glittering river in Chiswick Park. There are loads of planes flying overhead, not so ideal. And it's the day of the England Euros final. The atmosphere is so, so joyful. My auntie has been pestering Jason Donovan backstage. He's come onto stage looking absolutely gorgeous, dressed in red, white and blue.

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3:50All right, here we go. This is the show.

4:05Thank you.

4:26light, very soft above us. It's lovely, isn't it? It's just a good vibe all around. We're so thrilled to have you at the Happy Place Festival. I know you've had a very busy summer already. You were gigging last night. I was in Chrewsbury. That was good. It's a long way back. You know, it's about three and a half hours back that I was with my manager Sam and we had chats along the way home. So, you know, it's good to spend time with people I love and, you know, happy to be here today, you know. Yeah, very happy to be here. And it's quite close to home for me, which is great. Exactly, short little commute home.

5:04Love that. Yeah, lovely. How's your voice? Because like me, you've had voice issues over the years. I have. How's it going? It's better. I had in 2017 a sort of a bit of a moment there where it's sort of muscle tension and And I think probably a little bit of overworking, particularly in my business, you know, with singing and acting. I was doing a show at the time which was required me to do an American accent. And I was probably sort of pushing that too far. But, yeah, I mean, physio, I found steaming. I found mental you know trying to sort of align myself and calm myself down a little bit although I'm still working just as hard yeah you've not learned your lesson no I haven't calmed down that much so uh but yeah I think through adversity you have moments of opportunity to you know look at yourself and look at how you do things and my family were incredibly supportive and, you know, I think my voice has been stronger than it's ever been, actually.

6:17That's so good. Yeah, and I found actually, in a way, the working of that muscle has actually been more beneficial for me to keep moving forward. It's a bit like if you have a back issue. If you sit down the whole time, that tends to not be the best way forward. You've got to get up again. Was it sort of scary initially thinking, oh, God, I might not be able to sing again? Because you love it. Well, the singing wasn't the problem. It was speaking. Yeah, it was really ironic that it was more my speaking. And I still have moments of it. You know, it's a muscle. I mean, the voice is a muscle and it's tiny, but it takes, you know, it takes a lot of pressure when you do what we do, and particularly with stage and projection.

7:07But, yeah, five, seven years of working with it and learning to speak in a different way, even now, you know, it's interesting. But once you keep speaking, it's very difficult to explain, but I'm in good shape. Well, I'm really glad to hear that. And also you're hitting the stage again later in the year here in the UK for the Rocky Horror Show. I am. Feeling good about that? I feel very good about that. I feel I've been in Australia for about 18 months on and off, which has been lovely. I love that part. I'm enjoying the fact that it is an hour and a half on stage, not two hours. I'm enjoying, I did it in 1998.

7:53So to revisit a role once again that requires a strong character and scene that I really enjoy. I mean, a lot of my career, I suppose, particularly coming from Joseph, was very much sort of this blue-eyed, blonde-haired, you know, Peter Pan sort of character. Rocky enabled me to be sort of a bit of a rock star, which I really in a way am. Yes, you are. I wasn't, I was never setting out to be a classic sort of pop star. I never really set out to be in music. It sort of found me. But by playing that character, it can sort of release that, you know, that rock star. The inner rock star. Definitely.

8:40100%. I mean, you've got a lot of history with the show. As you said, you were in the show in the 90s. You met your wife through the Rocky Horror Show, Ange. Yeah, she was a stage manager. And we are together, well, 25, 27 years on. It's amazing. What do you think makes you guys compatible? because long marriages are rarer the longer we, the older we get. The older we get, yeah. What makes a long marriage compatible and what makes it work? A respect. Yeah. And I think, you know, children bring people together and probably push people apart in a way. She's my best friend is probably the best way to describe it.

9:25but I do respect Ange and I'm scared shitless of her sometimes too. And I think that's the honest truth. Good thing, yeah. She's tough. I mean, the irony is she plays football and I'm the one that walks around in high heels and sings pop songs. She's the one that changes the, you know, when the car breaks down, she's out there changing the wheel and, you know, I'm doing the gardening and picking the flowers. That's the truth. I love it. And a healthy dose of fear is no bad thing. Healthy dose of fear. Do you know what I mean? I heard Dustin Hoffman say that once on Parkinson. He actually said, what is the secret to the success of your marriage?

10:06And he said, I'm scared shitless of that. It's a good thing. It is a good thing. Good on, Ange. I mean, you guys have been through a hell of a lot together as well. And when you met, you were going through a difficult period. You were using drugs a lot and you were in the throes of addiction there. Do you think that's helped bring you together, knowing that you experienced that as a couple?

10:29Yeah, I think so. I think the birth of a child changes a lot of things, you know. And for me, I mean, particularly if you're involved in a self-destructive way in which I was, for whatever reason I got to that point because, you know, success landed on my doorstep very young. And how do you process that? In today's day and age that would come under the banner of mental health, you know. But in those days you just had to sink or swim. But I guess what changed was I saw an opportunity to change. I've always kept fit physical fitness mental health I think go hand in hand and timing in life is everything you know I don't believe in luck I think you create luck in a way you know it's certain certain luck does land in people's on people's doorstep for whatever reason but but timing in life and how you create those moments is really the the key to further development and And it was just time to change for me.

11:43And the story was boring. I was talking about myself all the time, you know, and it was very selfish. But the good news is I now know what I don't want to do. Yeah. It's so important. Yeah. But as a team, yes, you know, Ange and I, Gemma got born in 2000. And that was a real turning point for me, you know, because I couldn't be half a parent, you know, lost in this sort of world, you know, self-destructive world. But, you know, the irony is I love a drink now. I don't obviously, I mean, that has, Jesus, I mean, that's, you know, a glass of wine, you know, it's easy to sort of just lose yourself in a bottle of rosé sometimes.

12:31Correct. You know, so life for all of us, no matter how old we are or how young we are, is full of these temptations. Yeah. But like you said, in the 90s, no one was talking about mental health. That was not a thing. And especially in the industry that you were working in at the time, that wasn't a thing. That your record label or production, who you're working for, would check in and say, how are you doing? or even sensing that you weren't okay, do you think fame was the catalyst for that downward spiral mentally or was there other stuff lurking around? That's a big question. That's a big question.

13:15I don't know the answer to that question. I think, again, how do you process, you know, what happened to me, you know, at a very sort of young age? and I think from my perspective as I sort of touched on there was I was very conscious of taking advantage of the road that was sort of set out for me but was it the road that I wanted to be so I tried to ruin my image a little bit. Unfortunately I never drunk until I was in my 30s and this is not unnew to to to people that have read my story uh I love to you know have a joint and I much preferred people that were stoned rather than people that were pierced and particularly if I was famous I'd prefer to walk into a room of people you know stoned than drunk sorry it's just uh no great just kind of not really there and not paying attention yeah And my dad, you know, who I adore and love, you know, dad loves a drink and, you know, still does.

14:20And he's not an alcoholic by any way, shape or means. But he's one of those people that can sometimes, you know, you see a certain side of dad. And I didn't like that. So I've always said this and I think I'm right that I think drugs, soft drugs, can lead to other usage. And some people would argue against that. I'm pretty adamant that it leads you to open a door to temptation. But, yeah, I mean, that's my opinion about it. Did that feel at the time like a coping mechanism to deal with what you were dealing with work-wise? Was it in a sense of escapism? Escapism, yeah. Not really cope, I think, in escapism, yeah.

15:12And so what does balance mean to you now? Because like you say, you like a drink, but it's not problematic. No. So how do you, what is balance to you? What does that mean? Well, I was thinking about, you know, when I came here, and I'm sorry my back's towards you people, lovely people, that are catching the sun on the left-hand side. Yeah, get a lovely ton out there. I love that. Oh, I should be sort of further around this way, shouldn't I? I'm very conscious of my audience here. They're enjoying the back of your head, actually. Yeah. What balance? I was thinking about what is happiness probably is sort of...

15:47I mean, it's, you know, balance to me is time with my family. My work is extremely important. I would like to relax a lot more. I can't find that balance just yet. Balance is dinner with friends, you know, Sunday lunch, bottle of rosé, you know, the beach, the sea, swimming. I'm so into my water. I just I'm really happy when I'm in water. I sometimes have about three showers a day, four showers a day. Even to cold water. I'm not a clean freak. I just love water. Yeah, do you like cold water swimming? Cold water swimming I love. Love. I love hot water swimming. I love... Warm water swimming. I love to be able to swim in that lake if I could.

16:37Get in there at the end. That would be quite an ending for us. As long as it's not got any E. coli in it, I'd be very happy. What else about balance for me? I love to pick flowers. I'm obsessed by flowers. We can see you sporting on today. I'm sorry, my flower. this is sort of this costume today. Costume? Well, no, I was going on stage. Your stage clothes. I'm starting to warm up a bit now. I'm starting to warm up a bit. Yeah, so I thought I'd wear white today and I'm very conscious that white tight jeans have sort of gone out of fashion a little bit And I was thinking Elizabeth Hurley at the time, I don't know why.

17:25But I'm not, Elizabeth Hurley's in or out of fashion. I mean, I'm just saying. Queen forever. It's just she loves her white. White jeans. Her white jeans. White jeans. And I put them on before I came and thought, shit, I've done that look so much. But I had these ones. These are fantastic. So I put these on and I felt like sort of Harry Styles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And I felt a little more howry. It's working. It's really working. And then I went downstairs to Gemma and her boyfriend Owen. I said, white, white, she's like, oh, what did Gemma say to me? She's like, very, very block colours, Dad.

18:03And I went, oh, shit, okay. I said, I'm not going to sweat and change. But then they said, no, no, wear that. And they said, maybe a little bit of red because England's playing tonight. Do you know what I mean? So I went next door. Well, don't tell my neighbour. Chop the little rose off the front of the tree. Rosemary. Rosemary's lovely. But she wouldn't be happy that I chopped the rose off the front of her tree. She was saving that for her vase. Rosemary's like 90, 98, this woman. She's incredible. Incredible. Anyway, she wasn't there. Chopped it off. Didn't drive too far, which is the wonderful thing apart from seeing all your faces today.

18:49It's a very close gig for me. You, of course. And the flower started to, look, wilt. A karma. But I think it's a nice, it's just a nice sort of... It's a nice nod. Yeah, it's a nice nod. It's a great outfit. It's a great look. I think this is the new thing for you. Yeah. Go with it. No socks. No socks. sweating beyond belief we're going with it a man of a certain age actually we're all sweating we're all in this together it's all fine hi this is nox from the podcast with nox and jamie and maybe like us at the podcast you also know people who have been smokers or vapors and zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to zen nicotine pouches reasons like zen nicotine pouches are still america's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction.

19:42And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either three or six milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

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21:27I mean talking of family yes your daughter Gemma is now doing all sorts of amazing acting jobs have you had conversations where you've warned her of the pitfalls or you've been nervous to let her walk that path I think for and with with your kids um there is no manual but good parenting should come naturally and well not naturally it should be a result of how you've been brought up and the bottom underlying thing is love I think the most difficult thing when a child is at school they're managed when they leave school it's about their dreams and how do you make their dreams and passions sort of come true.

22:13I, as a kid, was always told to follow my passions. My dad is an actor. And it was never a matter of, you know, you should do this or do that just because acting or singing or entertainment wasn't a sort of fit for a certain generation. You know, she works hard. She's been, you know, she's done Neighbours, she did Hollyoaks. Yeah, I think it's just about being true to herself and I don't think there's much more to it than that. Has she come to you for advice? No, because, well, she does, she does, but I find as an actor, particularly with a parent, you can't really work together because it's destructive, you know, and she will say, Dad, I don't want to do it that way.

23:08And then she'll say, how do I look in this? I'm not worried about the way you look. Is it the way you're acting? Or then she'll talk about... Anyway, there's a big conflict there. But I've always got her back and, yes, I am always trying to steer her in the right direction. But it is about her passion and, you know, I am a believer also as a performer, you should be as versatile as you can. A lot of actors want to be singers. A lot of singers want to be actors. I managed to combine the two. I mean, I didn't set out to be in musical theatre. It found me. But it's been good to me. So I think there's always a plan B, though.

23:55One should always have a plan B, I think, too. I think so. I mean, it's an interesting balance to get, isn't it? saying to your kids or even to yourself, have that goal, go for it, but maybe just think about other options to be sensible. Yeah. I mean, it's no secret that I was a massive fan of yours growing up, and I've told you this before. I'll spill the facts. First of all, my first gig ever, Jason Donovan, Wembley Arena. Class, class. First gig. Me and Becky Curry had the night of our lives. It was, what would that have been? Becky Curry? Becky Curry, still one of my best mates today. Oh, my floppy flower.

24:33Floppy flower. It was an incredible moment. But going back even further to Neighbours, it was obviously we had like four TV channels back in the day in the UK. So everybody watched Neighbours. It was an event. You would never miss it. I remember where I was to the point where I even remember what I was wearing when I watched Scott and Charlene's wedding. I was lying in my mum and dad's bed and they had this miniature TV. And it was like the best thing that had ever happened in my life at that point. It was such a moment. I can tell it's had an impact. I know. I've not let go. Fern looks at me at the school gates and is just like, one eye on me and one eye on her husband, I can tell.

25:12Jason, going to go back. We shared the same school, funnily enough. I know, we were on the same school run. The white owl. This is the funny thing. I, as a kid, all I wanted was to meet Jason Donovan and I now see him doing the school run. I've manifested it, guys. Thank you very much. Made it happen. Thank you, Gabby Bernstein. But that level of fame back then, it was different to fame today. Everybody's famous today. People can become famous on Instagram, TikTok, whatever. But you were a small club back in the 80s and 90s where everybody was watching your every move. Everybody was scrutinising you and interested in what you were doing.

25:53Because that sits almost sort of adjacent to fame. You've got fame, which can be glorious and exciting, But the scrutiny and all eyes on you, how did you cope with that bit of it? Well, I mean, look, I think as an actor it is a little different in a way because when I met, you know, I became a pop star in the late sort of 80s. But I was always an actor first. And as actors, you have to work with a large demographic of age groups and people, you know. there's a lot of competition there's a lot of respect there's you know you have to work with kids you have to work with you know people in their 60s 70s 80s and sometimes 90s and and the dynamic of dialogue and understanding emotions you know I'm an interpreter of emotions really as an actor really sort of sets you up to be quite grounded in a way I mean some actors aren't always grounded but I've watched my dad, you know, have jobs and then not have jobs.

27:00Most actors are out of work most of the time. I think the difference with becoming a musician is that you create your own characters, you know, in a way and that can be successful or unsuccessful. For me, I seem to just touch a bit of gold going from one thing But the fan base of Neighbours in that particular point in time enabled us, gave us the leverage to be more than just TV stroke actors or soap or television stars. How did I cope with it? Pretty well up until the finish of Joseph when I think I'd worked my ass off and I needed a break. and, you know, again, as I just said, I rebelled against the character I'd sort of created in a way.

27:51Was it manufactured? No, it wasn't manufactured because it was me. I was intelligent enough to realise that this was a moment that I needed to capitalise on because it probably wouldn't have come around again. I was trying to reinvent myself but I couldn't in a way and I was a bit stuck. Also, I had a court case with The Face magazine which was quite controversial at the time. You know, when I was a Melbourne boy that loved to go surfing and smoke weed, really, you know, I'm sorry, that's the truth. I know it's pretty harsh. Yeah, but we love you for your... It's the absolute truth. And I think that's the one thing I think when I think, even us talking now, you know, I'm so conscious of sound bites and people will take things that I say and next week it will be in the Daily Mail and, oh, my God, have I said the right thing?

28:39Oh, shit, have I offended my daughter or my da-da-da. I come from a place now where I've sort of said it all and done it all, that I can really stand by myself and go, I know my boundaries and I know that I'm a decent person and I know I've fucked up a bit along the way, but what human being doesn't, you know. So, yeah. It's important. Success, but fame's a big one, Fern. Yeah. Fame is a big one. It's a big one. And success, how do you measure success? What does it mean? You know, for someone that's overcoming cancer, someone that's coming here today and being in this room because they're anxious around people.

29:23Some people, it's scoring, you know, five number one hits in a year and then, oh, I didn't get the six, you know. Success is a really difficult thing to understand and measure. Happiness is you're only as happy as your most unhappy child. Yes. You know, I found that one recently. It's a tricky one to accept. It's a tricky one. Balance in life. But I keep coming back to one thing, a physical fitness for me. Always. Always. Yeah, moving. It's extremely important. It's so important. It's for your brain and for everything. It's got me through all the shit that I've had in my life, you know. And some fucking fantastic moments.

30:11Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, can I swear on this? It's a bit late now. I don't know. Shit. I don't know even now. I don't really. I've got this filter. No, we're fine with swearing. If I go on telly, I never, ever swear. If I go on radio, I never swear. No, Jason, be free. Okay. Be free. Okay, okay. There are no rules around here. I'm relaxing. There are no boundaries, no rules. We do as we please. Now, this is, again, perhaps a big question, but looking back at all those eras of your life and morphing into different iterations of yourself, which we all do, would you say today you're happy in your skin and you like yourself?

30:48I haven't really thought about that today.

30:55I'm always finding something, because I'm a very ambitious person still at 56, not because I want to, you know, conquer the world in my business, but just because there's a lot of things I enjoy and I want to keep enjoying those things. And that requires work and I guess, you know, I could take a back seat. I mean, Ange would always say to me, you're never going to take a back seat. Am I happy? Am I – what was the question again? Do you like yourself? Do I like myself? Yeah. I do like myself, yeah. I think I'm reasonably balanced. I've got a great family. I'm pretty honest. I am honest. I have a tug of war with, you know, maybe enjoying myself sometimes too much and keeping focused.

31:49But, you know, yeah. I'm, yeah, I'm content. I'm pretty balanced, pretty happy. I think that's a really lovely thing that you allow yourself to enjoy things Because so often, especially when I'm imagining you're at sort of like the peak of that neighbour's era, things must have moved so quickly that maybe you didn't enjoy it as much because you were just on to the next thing, on to the next thing. Is that true, do you think? Well, I guess you're measuring that about work and professional life, you know, because I've come to realise that and I've seen a lot of success around me. And, you know, money doesn't, there's only so many rooms in a house you can have, you know, and if you don't have someone to share those rooms with, what's the point, really?

32:34So, again, I come back to this thing of balance. It's funny, as we get older, we start to scale down a bit too. I'm at that stage in my life, probably, you know, some people are where you've had kids and you now build up, build up and you have to sort of shrink back down. That's another phase. You know, the kids are getting older. I've still got Molly, who's a 13-year-old, so I'm trying to keep young in my mind for her. Also, you know, I'm not the captain of my ship, but I'm a leader of my band. Do you know what I mean? The band has an equal say, but someone has to make the decision sometimes, certain decisions.

33:21And again, Ange has, and my kids now have a voice in that. So it's balancing the board. Yeah. As I'm sure you would happen in your world too, you know. So that's another phase in my life. But I'm not really obsessed by, you know, trying to be the greatest this this or the greatest actor or singer or you know it's it's I think one gift in my professional life is that performing is a drug in a way and a lot of people who write songs or write scripts you know obviously have an incredible talent and I wish I was blessed with that opportunity to have written a great song or a great script and maybe the future with that I do my art still and stuff that gives me a lot of pleasure um but but the the purpose of of being able to go out and sing any dream will do or to really is this god gift it's insane and nostalgia is massive at the moment and the effect that those songs particularly music because music is magic i think it's the closest human beings have to magic.

34:42It can put you in a time and a place like no other medium can. And to sing a song like Too Many Broken Hearts and see people's faces. What a tune. And I'm just like, that's why being a pop star matters sometimes. You know what I mean? Oh, me and Lucy Bartholomew made up a dance routine to that one. Oh, jeez. We were in the back garden. Can you do it now? No. And even if I could, I wouldn't. Oh, jeez. Oh, but I agree with you. music is so powerful and I guess actually as you go through your career and you've experienced the pitfalls and the challenges the joy has to come from the doing it bit not the end result not everyone cheering for you not the money whatever it's got to be that you're in the moment enjoying that connection with other people it's so important it is important it is important um um i i and i like to work hard i mean you know anyone that knows me says you work too hard you know i mean theater you know you talk about rocky is a short show and a great show um but it's hard work you know it's hard work seven eight shows a week is relentless it requires athleticism and discipline and focus but the rewards are you know insane you know you get that applause and that's addictive that's hard to come come off is it it is yeah well when you've done a block of work like i do for three months you know it's hard to come off but sometimes it's it's great to see the finishing line you know and just have a bit of normalcy yeah do some normal picking some flowers Although, as we were talking backstage, it takes a while to come down and relax.

36:30And sometimes my wife says, I can't wait for you to go back on tour. Can't wait for that show to start again. Oh, gosh. Can't wait. But one thing, and you just mentioned this, that I know does help you relax and makes you feel really good is painting. I've got one of your paintings at home. Yeah. That's a love. I mean, I love painting too. It's an amazing outlet. And it seems that that is something that you want to keep for you. It's not necessarily, there's no huge ambition. It's this is for me because I love doing it. Yeah, I was always sort of told my handwriting was pretty good. You know, my grandmother was a great writer, you know, a great letter writer, and also, you know, her letters look fantastic, perfect.

37:12And I thought there was a way of combining writing into art because, let's face it, we don't, apart from your good self, they're doing much. Very old school. It is very organised, by the way. Yes. Well, I'm a Virgo, aren't I? So I have my little nerdy notebook. Every podcast episode is written in the same way. And I can look back at it one day and go, oh, I used to be relevant and interview all these great people. Yeah. Well, you could do a book. I could do a book. Yeah. See, always thinking about one. You're painting your pension. But I love pen and paper. There's something really therapeutic about it.

37:48But I think it helps you remember as well. It's like a good cognitive exercise. Yeah, mine came out of lockdown and thinking, right, I'm an actor, I'm a singer, I can't, theatres are shut, you know, what the hell am I going to do? You know, and also we didn't know the future at that point. You know, I have, you know, a mortgage and I have kids and, you know, yes, I'm lucky. I've got some great things in my life, but those things need to be sustained. or you need to take a real U-turn and try and find other ways of reinventing stuff that you've built up to change that. So I thought art, well, I just thought I'd now put it into practice a little bit more.

38:29I haven't been doing a lot recently because of my work, but it's something that's always there in the background for me and it is therapeutic and cathartic. And I feel great when I've produced something that is, you know, compact. It's a difficult one though, because there's so many roads you can go when you paint and you go, it's a blank sheet of paper. This is why I find writing songs and, you know, even script ideas or a piece of art is like, okay, now I've got the opportunity.

39:05Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product that seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either three or six milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

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40:28Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue, a world premiere play only at Arena Stage. Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org.

40:42where do i go or how far do i go am i going too far because sometimes if you write a song you can over complicate it you know you can over i mean think of any dream will do as a it's so simple yeah yet a lot of people would complicate that sentence up because they'd overthink it you know that's why some shows don't work and some songs do work and some festivals work and some don't and you know it's finding the balance again in life and in what one does professionally am i making sense oh yeah i think we're with you i'm warmed up now thank god just as we're about to end he's uh he's in the swing of things there's this lovely feeling that i get when I'm painting where time doesn't exist and I could be painting for hours and it feels like five minutes and I won't even drink water it's just I'm so engrossed in it and I feel really lucky that I love painting because I get that feeling and nothing else quite allows me that level of liberation to not worry about the clock ticking or what I've got to do next do you get in that sort of it kind of a meditative state I guess yeah I do um and I can't leave it that's the problem it becomes addictive until it's finished you know um and i love you know i love great pieces of art i'm you know i love art i i had a manager once well not once i mean richard who was with me in the early late 80s and early 90s he used to live next door to francis bacon wow i couldn't believe that that was like wow you know anyway francis bacon is a pretty impressive English painter.

42:31Incredible painter. Incredible. Incredible. Incredible mind, quite disturbed. It was a muse house in South Kensington. So, yeah. I love that. I love that. Well, if you haven't seen Jason's Art, you must check it out. You've got an Instagram page dedicated to it, haven't you? So do go look. It's really, really gorgeous, really cool. You're so worried about your little flower, aren't you? I am, my floppy rose. Your floppy rose. Oh, no, hello. It's just about holding out. And the problem is I didn't put two pins in because I think it would have, it's a bit like, oh, and then it's oh, and then it goes, oh.

43:09It's working. It's sort of working. We love it. You started a trend. We're all going to pin a little rose to our tops later. Yes. Jason, it's been so lovely talking to you today. And I'm so grateful. Well, I guess so. Yeah. I'm so grateful that you've come along to our lovely little festival. I hope that you've been feeling all the good vibes and the love. I've been walking around today and so many other festival goers have come up to me and said, I can't wait for Jason Donovan. I can't bloody wait. I'm going to be there front row. So we're so glad that the gorgeous audience have turned up to watch this and we're so grateful for you.

43:41Everybody, please give it up for Jason Donovan. Thank you. Thank you.

43:49Oh, Jason, you were the most fun. I love you still very much. A proper crowd pleaser for everyone, though. We all just enjoyed it. What a way to round off two gorgeous days at the Happy Place Festival. And by the way, if you head over to Instagram, at Happy Place Official, you can have a little look, if you want, at Jason's floppy flower. That was the star of the show, quite frankly. I also mentioned Gabby Bernstein in that chat. She was at the festival too. And in a couple of weeks' time, you'll get to hear a little bit of her utterly gorgeous talk, which I so love because, as you know, I'm a massive fan of Gabby and she's a great friend of mine.

44:26Gabby went out there being her true brilliant self and the audience, who I love, were just very British about some of it as she was getting people to hold their hearts or whatever. She had to really get them going. It's just we can't do that, can we, us British lot? We really, really struggle with it. You'll also be able to hear snippets of loads of other conversations that happened on the talk stage across the weekend. So keep an eye on your podcast feed for that one. Have all of these live conversations made you want to join the fun? Because you can. You can get your tickets for our Tatton Park Festival at happyplacefestival.com.

45:01We'll be there on Saturday the 31st of August and Sunday the 1st of September. There are so many things to do. We've got arts and craft workshops, yoga, sound baths, meditations. You can even have a gorgeous sober boogie to our DJ sets, which everybody threw themselves into at Chiswick. It was one of my favourite things to see, just a big sober rave up. I'd love to hang out with you there, so pop along if you can. Until next week then, a huge thank you to the brilliant Jason Donovan, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios, and to you, you are the loveliest gang ever.

45:59so

46:05hi this is nox from the popcast with nox and jamie and maybe like us at the podcast you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either three or six milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

46:36Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

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