Joanne McNally: “I’m problematically independent” Being an introverted extrovert

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that eradicates shame through pure, unfiltered chat. Today, I'm really happy about this, I'm chatting to Joanne McNally. I've met other adopted people who felt like they were abandoned. My parents did such a good job of making sure I never cared about being adopted that I think they kind of went a bit overboard and I thought I was special, which was worse actually. I guess because I had that little show pony side to me and that wasn't in the family I was adopted into, that I thought that I would find it in the birth family.

0:34So when that didn't happen, you are kind of left in a bit of a limbo land then. You have to be like, oh, I'm just my own person. Oh, God. How are you, Lovely Lot? Are you doing last minute Christmas shopping? God, I'd never leave it this late. I'm not shaming you, but I couldn't deal with the stress. I would combust. Are you rapping? I am still rapping. It doesn't end ever. It never ends. I think I'm getting somewhere. And there's more and more. I'm also slightly stressing still that I haven't bought all the ingredients for a stupidly intricate trifle that I'm planning to make. Trifle seems to go down well with everyone.

1:10It's got a bit of everything in there. I'll make a booze free one so the kids can get stuck in. How many layers is appropriate? I think I'm doing like six this year. It's too much. It's OTT. I'm getting all flustered just thinking about it. But that is Christmas, isn't it? Joy and stress in equal measures. A delight. But look, whatever you're doing, I hope you're all right. I hope you've got the twinkly lights up and you're feeling okay. And if you're not, that's also all right. We're here with you. We don't really talk about Christmas in this episode at all. So if you hate it, bingo. I really thought that Joanne would be the perfect guest to hear from today because she's quite frankly, one of the most fun people I know.

1:47She is a record-breaking queen of comedy. And of course, she's the co-host of award-winning podcast, My Therapist Ghosted Me. I don't even know where to start with this one. We talk about being independent and not liking asking for help. We talk about humour getting us through difficult situations. We talk about being adopted as a baby. And we talk a lot about pelvic floors. I mean, I didn't plan that in my notes. It wasn't something I researched. But quite frankly, it was my favourite part of the chat. And has changed the course of my life. You will hear more about that later. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

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4:14All right, here we go. This is the show.

4:38I always get myself really nice. It's really nice, yeah. We've unofficially started the podcast. Oh, great. I'm just going to keep on talking shit. Yeah, great. For however long we talk. Well, we've done a good half an hour off. Yeah, but that was, exactly. We've done it. Just no one heard it. No, we just can't use any of it. Oh, Joanne, I'm so happy we get to do this because we actually only met, what, a couple of months ago? Yeah. We talked exclusively about Furbies for that chat. And I'd like to veer off that topic today. Oh, I didn't realise. I'm afraid so. I'm afraid so. I wouldn't know. I'm afraid so.

5:11We've done Furbies, quite frankly. We've done them to death, yeah. We've absolutely done them. And we've got so much more to talk about. I mean, I think even since I saw you, you've been incredibly busy. You did a tour in the States. I did, yeah. How did that go? Really well, actually. But I didn't really, so I'm kind of trying to do the States in chunks. Right, you have to. It's so big. It's just so big. And I know that's not news to anyone, but it's when you go out there, it's just so vast. I've never felt more irrelevant in my life, just the size of it. And I was like, OK, I'm going to try and do this in chunks.

5:41more so just for fun really and to see if I can see how far I can go over there so I don't even know what coast I've done some coast I did San Fran coast so I won the last time and this time I've done the other coast see east and west I don't know couldn't tell you but actually what happened was this time there were slightly bigger rooms I mean they're still small rooms like no one obviously gives a shit about me in America but funnily enough Taskmaster does quite well over there which I didn't realise they're big into Taskmaster so that gave me a big lift over there which was fantastic. Yeah so it wasn't like empty rooms it was actually a bit of a buzz and then I had two weeks in New York where I did a lot of the clubs and kind of got to know the bookers over there a bit and stuff so I'm dipping the toe.

6:24So great and you've got a UK tour next year. Yes Pinophile is the new show. Love. Thank you. I can't wait I'm coming. Of course you're coming. I'm coming. Yeah yeah. Do you like touring life? Does it suit you? I love it. Do you? I love it. Like so when the lockdown, when all that COVID stuff happened, I was like, oh shit, because I had just put everything into live because I love live. So all my eggs were in a live basket. I had nothing like I'd know nothing in the pipeline, as they say. I know sitcoms or anything. I just done it all live. It's my favourite thing to do. Why is that? Because I think it's absolutely terrifying.

7:01The fact that it's not even like doing live TV. You've got an audience. You're reading their reactions. they're literally working off your material and you've got to sort of if it's going well fucking brilliant but if it's not you've got to stomach that and crack on with it that's so hard I know yeah it's funny though it's like anything like you just get used to it it's like anything you just you become desensitised to it and I mean not that desensitised if a gig's not going well hopefully you still have the intelligence to know it's not going well if you're that desensitised walking off thinking you've smashed it that's a bad thing but I don't know I was always a bit of a show pony growing up And then I got into performing kind of later in life.

7:39I was in my early 30s when I got into it. So I had a bit of life experience behind me. Whether that makes a difference or not, I'm not sure. I just decided this is what I want to do. And I'm just going to power through all that horrible self-loathing, awkwardness, dying on your arse, trains on your own. I'm just going to power through it because this is all I want to do. So I'm just going to suck it up. And whatever the bad stuff is, I'm just going to suck that up and get through it. I think doing stand up comedy makes you so unbelievably resilient because you've got to not take things so personally, which is so hard in the moment because it is just you.

8:15You're on your own on that stage. You're in control of it. You are. It's it's it's your stage. And you've got to deal with that just insane reaction. It's so tricky. So I agree I do think it makes you resilient But not for the reasons you think potentially What I found was It made me very independent Like because it's such an insular job That's why I love doing podcasts and stuff Because you get to chat to other people Because otherwise You're on your own all day Trying to write And then in the evening You're gigging So you're on stage You're not really part You are part of the room But you're not really And then you go home Either full of joy Or again full of self-loathing So it is quite an insular job And when I first moved to the UK I found that part really hard because I was obviously doing I was gigging all over Britain so I was on trains all the time on my own going into clubs where I didn't know anyone I didn't know any comics over here so that I found was way harder than the gigging at school every day yeah but there is no school there's no school you're just walking into an empty building on your own with some old guy running the door yeah doing exams on your own every day and you've known to talk to when you finish the exam you've known to talk to now I have made some comedy friends thank God because you really need them.

9:25They're like your system. And someone has to get it. They have to understand what it's like. They have to get it. So you have to be able to ring someone and go, oh my God, I just had them as the worst experience of my adult life and they'll laugh it off with you. So the resilience came from being on my own so much and now I would call myself because I obviously read a lot of, when I say self-help, TikTok. I'm big into philosophy at the moment. On TikTok. Just a quote at a time. In a 10 minute little chunk. A quote at a time. I'm a realist. Here we go again. One quote. I would say I'm problematically independent now.

9:55Explain that to me. Yeah. I would say now I don't, I can only be around people for such, I used to be, I used to be constantly surrounded by people. I still have a very big group of friends, but we were in that phase. Everyone has it where you're just constantly attached to 28 other women, like a chain gang. Do you know what I mean? You do everything together. What are we doing at the weekend? Where are we going on holiday? Everything is a mass. decision and a mass exercise. And that goes when you get older anyway. But because of the job and I got so used to being on my own that now I've kind of gone the other way.

10:34I would say I'm strangely introverted. An introverted, extroverted, introverted, if such a thing exists, I'm sure it does. No, it does. I am that. Yes. So your job, you're kind of expelling a lot of yourself. And then once the job's over, I kind of go into a weird kind of social hibernation. I have to force myself to go out. I'm like, go out, Joanne, go out now, come on. Same, but I'm having a little weird burst of fun. I don't know why. It's come out of nowhere. It's like, oh, I just want to go and get a bit pissed and have some fun and I'm coming out of it a bit. I think it's all phases, but I totally understand that sort of hyper independence.

11:08I think I've had that for so long. Maybe because I started work young, I don't know, but sometimes I don't trust that people are going to do what I need or support me in the right way. So I'm like, nope, I'm doing everything on my own, which is not great. But I know I can rely on myself. So I sort of stick to that. And I know that that's not great, but it's just a coping mechanism, I guess. You need to be able to delegate, don't you? I'm awful at it. You will go slowly mad. Like I'm actually, I'm getting a lot better at that. Because like you at the start, you're completely in control of your own career.

11:41You're completely responsible for your own career. You're the one driving. You're trying to get work. You're trying to create work, all that stuff. So you're in charge of all that yourself. but as you get more experience in the industry and more work comes in you have to try and learn to let that go a bit like even the press release for this new tour that I'm doing they're like because I was a publicist before I was a comic I would have always kind of almost micromanaged that stuff and now I'm like I don't even want to read I have a publicist now I trust you put it out yeah do it do your thing I'm not I'm hands off you'd go mad so what's your coping mechanism if you do a show and you just think oh that just didn't land or it just didn't go as you'd envisaged What do you do after?

12:20How are you getting through that bit of self-doubt, critique? It's a shitty place to be. I've had it millions of times. It could be a podcast episode. I'm like, oh, it just wasn't quite what I thought it was going to be. Or it could be a telly thing, whatever. It's hard to pick yourself back up, get that confidence going again, to feel motivated again. Yeah. So at stand-up, it's like, it's a job. You're kind of, you're offering a service. Yeah. And it's not an exact science. No. Do you know what I mean? it's so subjective to the room and okay a couple of things one it's never the audience's fault that's one thing I learned early on it'd be good to blame them it'd be so good to be like oh just 600 wankers in one room at the same time just a wild coincidence do you know what I mean you can't it's on you it's ultimately on you and so the thing that's really helpful is and at the start you obviously take it way worse than you do when you have enough gigs behind you that you know you're like you can do the job you're like alright grant this wasn't great what happened there so I'm like what actually happened there why didn't that work and it's if you can come away with a reason why it didn't work and something you can fix the next time grand and also and a lot of comics will say this you learn way more from your shit gigs than you do if you're walking off storming it every night you're not learning anything do you know now I'd love to not learn anything I'm happy to never learn anything again for the rest of my life but if you're going to be an adult about it and a professional about it the weaker gigs you're like okay what went wrong you know I went too heavy I went too hard on that person I misread that situation I fudged that line like there's always a reason for it thank God and then once you can get the reason for it then it doesn't eat you up as much you're like all right okay and then you kind of sit with it for a couple of hours the next day have a coffee think about it and then you're like right I have to write this off now I've got another show to do so really it's quite practical isn't it because there's a system and I think actually that's such good advice for sort of anything in life.

14:15And I wonder if that does spill into other areas outside of work where you might experience failure or something that didn't make you feel particularly good and that you can be as practical afterwards. Not really. The thing about comedy is you have to be prepared to fail very publicly. Like you're failing in that moment. Like there's no... Makes me feel sick, Joanne. Yeah, it's not. Look, don't get me wrong. It's not a nice experience. Yeah, like I had a gig in one of the gigs, one of the club gigs in New York when I was over there. It was a really, my agent, when he was booking it in, he actually warned me.

14:49He was like, I'm just letting you know. Because I wanted, I never want to say no to anything. Because I love to climb and I'm like, I can do, I'll do anything. I'll do anything. I'll do all those gigs. I'll do it all. I want to kind of prove myself all the time. Especially because I've had a lovely tour behind me. So I want to prove that I'm not like soft now. Do you know what I mean? That I'm still, you know, I can do it. Yeah. So I had this gig booked in New York and my agent was like, it's notoriously a horrible room. I was like, why is that? Why does that happen? And I know I'm kind of contradicting myself because I said it's never their fault, but some rooms just aren't made for comedy.

15:26And it's a really late night show. So by the time you get on, I think it was 1am by the time I got on stage. Oh my God. And I was the last comic on. I thought it was going to be this like come to Jesus, closing my first New York club gig. and there were so many comics on before me and there was just no energy. They were laughed out. They weren't even laughed out. It was just, like I say, it was a really small room. I think there was like 100 people in it. Yeah. And I was sitting in the hallway waiting to go on. I was like, it's fine. You're like, I can fix it. I can fix it. I have enough stage time behind me.

16:03I can fix it. I can fix it. I went out and I was like, I can't fix this. This is painful. full. But then you get off, you're like, okay, I'm going to give myself some grace here. I've never gigged in that room before. I don't know that stage. I don't know any of the comics. I don't know the MC. I've just landed in your, you're trying to - I'm jet lagged. Yeah. And it wasn't, in fairness, in my defense, I feel like I'm speaking to my agent now. In my defense, Tammy, you told me it was a hard room. Everyone had a terrible time. So have been a fabulous show. So yeah, and I left that night and I was like, this does not feel good.

16:42But you know what? No harm. It kind of puts manners on you because you can do, if you do, if you have a couple of great gigs in a row, no harm getting a shit gig because it kind of goes, no, no, no, no. A leveller. Yeah, a leveller. Yeah. Yeah, I had the same with the podcast. If I have one where I think, oh, I just, you know, hopefully no one would notice, but I just think, oh, I wasn't quite my best. I will go home and I will double down on everything that I'm looking into and how I'm going to phrase questions or listen to some other people interviewing again and I've been doing this shit for years but you still feel like you're being kept on your toes which I guess is a good thing because you're not complacent, you're not bored.

17:14That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. I think experiences like that, they keep you on your toes and that's where you want to be. It is. You want to be on your toes. You want to always be trying to get better and you want to be trying to figure out how to make the joke better and how to work a room better and all that stuff and if everything's going swimmingly, you don't bother thinking about stuff like that. you just kind of you just start ringing it in then I think it's a good metaphor for life don't ring it in yeah and just sort of you know keep on your toes don't get complacent about things and what age do you think you realised oh I'm quite funny here people are sort of reacting to me in a positive way I mean there's some people who would still say I'm not but I'm hilarious I always have been no joke I'm obviously taking fits I was I would say in I was certainly the class clown I would say I know because I read a lot of celebrity memoirs and a lot of comedy memoirs and I know that we seem to fall into two categories where some comics were quite introvert at school or quite serious at school and some were quite clowny I was definitely one of the clowny clowns one of the clowny comics so I was kind of disruptive and I had to sit on my own a lot and during class all that kind of stuff and I loved making people laugh.

18:34Like I just loved it. It just gave me such a kick. I just loved it. And then, and also I will say I have very funny friends. Like I don't think you're, I think you can be, there's a certain irreverence I think that you need for comedy and that comes with who you're hanging out with. Do you think? I think so, yeah. I do think that some people are just born funny and it's something about the intonation, it's something about perhaps facial expressions, physical movement there's some people you just think you're fucking funny yeah and I don't know I don't know what it is no it's magic it's I mean I don't know if I go when I was growing up I was good at English but there was a friend of mine who was amazing at maths and I remember thinking that's that's magic like whatever you don't have you admire so I just I just I just don't really think like I don't know but like I say my group of friends our main goal was to make each other laugh and there was an irreverence there.

19:32We didn't take anything that seriously. Like all our parents died and we were laughing about two hours later. Not at the death of our brother. You know what I mean? It was just, there was something lovely about it. We didn't take anything too seriously, which is kind of the key. And there is something about the Irish and storytelling that you're just the best at storytelling. It's in your blood. It's in your lineage. I don't know what it is. I think maybe because we were historically a bit of an underdog that we learned how to get attention via storytelling? I don't know. But you're right. And I don't know what that is either.

20:04But there is something about, we are very good at storytelling. I've not met an Irish person that isn't. We're good. And I think the accent also helps us a lot. Like it's when, so when I listen to a Glaswegian comic, like say Kevin Bridges, for example, whatever he says, whatever way, whatever he says, his accent, I'm already on board. Do you know? And I found that when I moved over here, when I moved to London from Dublin, that when they introduce you and they hear your accent, that they're kind of, they're willing to go with you. And maybe paying more attention, because it's like the cadence is different.

20:40And you've got to be a bit more sort of sparky. Like, oh, I'm listening to what this person's saying. When I was in America, before I went, because that was, the accent was hard. So I was like, before I went out, I was like, okay, Jamon, you've, slow, slow, slow. I said, speak like you've had a stroke. when you go out you've had a little stroke just a little one slow it all down and still sometimes I would see them I'd ask someone in the audience yeah so that was difficult you need to kind of tune into it a little bit I think yeah I worked in America in my 20s for about I did two TV shows for NBC out there and that was my biggest challenge was them understanding what the fuck I was saying and there was a lot of notes coming back like I remember I had to do I did like a Guinness World Record show and there was something, I mean, this sounds utterly inappropriate now, but it was like the world's biggest tumour.

21:32And they were like, yeah. And they were like, yeah, yeah. And in this meeting, I can't remember. I blocked it out because it was all quite traumatic. And they said, you're going to need to say tumour. Okay, it's tumour. So I would have to remember when I got to that bit in my English accent. And now the world's biggest tumour and sound like an absolute twat saying it. But it was awful. and that was the biggest hurdle for me was it's all of those little things that you are basically a complete outsider in an environment like that. You're not in with the sort of, you know, and also state by state.

22:04The humour in New York is different to the humour in Arizona. Oh my gosh. Like all of it. You've got to get your head around that every time. Totally. Like I was in Denver and some of the stuff, Denver, I was like, that's so weird. They're laughing at different things in Denver. Yeah. And then I didn't, I spoke to someone after and he's like, you're in quite a posh part of Denver. whereas when I was in Seattle I was in a less posh part of Seattle they were going for everything they were just having a fucking ball whereas I I had none of that inside information do you know you can't learn it until you're there it's going to be different every time but that's what's so fun about it yeah it's great I just love that you're up for that and also yeah totally and sort of dealing with the rough and the smooth of all of it otherwise you wouldn't be doing it you know you have to really love stand up to keep putting yourself out there in that way yeah and I also like I've no I'm not married I've no kids and I think part one of the perks of that has to be that I can commit all this to this career and make it my main priority and travel with us because if I had a family I wouldn't be able to head off to the States for six weeks and live out of a suitcase do you know I wouldn't be able to do that no it's so good I'm kind of doing it now while I can before some gentleman knocks me up oh come on it's going to happen any second could happen right quite frankly today who knows not by me sadly I haven't got those blocks Don't write it off.

23:22Don't write it off. Who knows? A turkey baster. Do you see that? Do you know what I mean? Did you see the story about the two prisoners? Why they were in the same prison, I'm not sure. No. A man and a woman. Right. And they had it through the cells. They had a healthy baby. He wanked himself off, passed the jizz through to her cell. This cannot be true. It's 100 % true. I read it on Lab Bible. She put it up there. So it has to be true. All your news. So you get all your headlines. CNN of the internet. And she used a turkey baster, put it up, and they had a healthy baby girl. Wow. Wow. Well, who knows?

23:52Let's see how the day pans out. Do you think writing comedy for a tour or whatever you're working on at the time helps you see the funny side in troubling situations you've been through? You know, how far can you take it with something that has really troubled you or stressed you out? Very far, all the way. Yeah. That's actually one of the amazing things about it is that no matter what happens, you're like, I'll get to it. Yeah, I know. It's such a cliche, but it's true. But does it help you deal and process with the terrible situations, you think? Does it process it? Probably does. Like, yeah.

24:26Which I think is quite self-indulgent because it's not fair for people to pay money to come and watch you work through your personal issues. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's not really. Because people sometimes go into like therapy. I'm like, it's not like therapy. But there is something fun about having something like shit happen to you, whether it be with like lads or family or whatever. and then because to get a laugh out of it you kind of have to make the joke about you in the end. It has to be about the joke is on you really so then you have to kind of take accountability for your your part in that situation whatever it is.

24:59Yeah. And that's useful instead of writing all my exes off as narcissistic bastards. I'm like well hold on a second maybe I played a part. Do you know what I mean? Maybe I played a part in that. It's not ideal to admit that but so stuff like that is quite useful for you but I wouldn't say and working through it on stage because I think that would be incredibly selfish and very boring. I think there's something interesting about just saying it out loud because often we've been through something mortifying. Often we just never speak those words and we keep it inside and it festers and becomes so much bigger and actually just saying, do you know what?

25:30I pissed myself or whatever the fuck it is. You've said it and you're still there. There's something about that that makes it less awful. A hundred percent. I haven't pissed myself. Actually, no, I have loads. Of course you have. Because I've had babies. I piss every day. Yeah, of course. I have pissed myself daily. Yeah. Every time I laugh, every time I sneeze, every time someone shocks me, every time I'm a bit excited. It's just variables coming at me. We did a whole 180 there, didn't we? See, it's good to share, isn't it? It's good to share it, babe. You're encouraging me right now. Stop now, Freddie, stop.

26:03I've got a whole list of other things I just want to go through with you and say out loud. It's so fun. But this is another reason why I also love what you do. I love your podcast with Vogue. Thank you. I love listening to you just chatting about whatever's happened that week or that day and airing it and having that space to do so without there being any filtering. I mean, is there anything that you wouldn't talk about in that space? There is some. It's shocking, isn't it? That's the filtered version. Is it? There's stuff on the floor that has been cut. which actually do you know what the further it goes the longer I do the pod I probably become a little bit more private about stuff a little bit because at the start we were just like bleh anything and everything and now you know how many people listen so that's another factor also Vogue it's different for Vogue because she's she has a different type of profile that I would have so if Vogue says something slightly controversial because you're taking the piss it'll chances are it'll end up as a headline and then you know she's getting shit for it and all so that's not great but I'm like listen all publicity is good publicity until it happens to me and then I'm like cut all of that go back take it out but there has been stuff that we said like one time I tell this story I was going out with this guy and he fell asleep while I was during sex like he fell asleep when I was riding him I know how is that I know very drunk not drunk enough no we were on holidays no we've been drinking daytime drinking the sun the sleepy and the sunstroke yeah the sunstroke yeah and I was kind of like I was on top and I kind of rocked him to sleep it was all great I don't know anyway I told and then I ended up doing stand up you see this is the pain because you can then use it but when I tell that story because then I became single and I was like I don't know if I want that information that's not going on my hinge profile yeah I wanted one last thing that I'm going to be the most exciting sexual experience of their human existence not that they're going to get a nap in so I told that and then I was like I don't know if I should but then like I say it ended up going into the Ghosted Live show so you always get something out of it but there is stuff or sometimes we'll end up in quite serious conversations or sometimes we'll have a disagreement stuff like that and Joe our producer is like well we can't it's supposed to be we want it to be pure light hearted escapism do you know what I mean so when it veers down as serious throughout something we're talking about the American election Joe's like no one gets a shit get rid of it yeah get back to talking about pissing yourself or whatever yeah yeah I love it but I just love that you guys have that friendship and that we're all in on hearing it it's just a beautiful thing and we were close before the pod started but we're way closer now I bet we're like we're kind of like sisters now like I think it's that frequency isn't it of like you know you're committed to you're having that chat yes every week whereas with friendships it's so all over the gaff you know like I'll see my best mate four times one week then I won't see her for four months and it's that lovely regular this is where we just get to have a chat and yes people are listening but it's still bonding 100 % so me and Vogue went to New York we were doing she kind of so I was doing stand up out there and then she came out and we did some of the ghosted live shows out there and it was so nice hanging out because we were saying because we work together twice a week we record twice a week so we get so much engagement out of each other and we're on the phone a lot about pod topics and we tell each other everything because that kind of confessional friendship that we have is off mic and on mic but socially we kind of trying to keep up with other friendships as well so we don't socialise as much as we used to plus Vogue we have kind of Vogue is quite into wellness and fitness and stuff and I'm usually I like a pub and Pina so and when I go down to her house there's kids everywhere so many children they're falling out of the walls they're everywhere and they're all gorgeous they're all gorgeous so gorgeous they're so gorgeous they're like a French Benetton they really are but they're loud Fern of course they are they're children they're loud so I'll come I'll be like hey great to see you and I'm like you've got your hands full I'll leave it to us see you in the podcast studio where there's new children back to the podcast so when we were in New York together and we had four or five days together that's fun it was so nice that's so fun and New York's so fun for that sort of thing it was brilliant it was so much fun and she was obviously she had no kids with her and we had all that time to spend together and then we're like oh my god we need to do like a team building trip.

30:34Yes. Tell Spencer three times a year. Yes, Spencer, come on, you're off running in the desert for half the year. Let her go and have a little girly holiday. Take the kids to the desert. We'll make that happen. It's absolutely fine. Well, I love it and I hope you just keep doing it forever because it's just a great bit of escapism and lovely to be in the chat. There's nothing to it. It's just fluff. It's great. But it's fun fluff. We need it. Yeah, but it's not just fun fluff. It's like it's super smart conversation and I love it. It's great. It is. I'm telling you it is.

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32:56That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. The other thing that we chatted about off mic when we were at Radio 2 was your childhood, which I found so fascinating to talk to you about. You were adopted at what age? Three months. Three months old. And I so loved talking to you about that off mic and hearing about, well, all of it, you know, meeting your biological parents and your relationship with your mum and meeting your brothers. it was just I saw a whole other side to you that I didn't know so well yeah it's fascinating it's funny because and again it's so hard to know what I'd be like if I wasn't adopted I've no idea because it is what it is now I can't like undo it and look it's not like a sliding doors thing but I meet a lot of adopted comics and I've always wondered is there some connection I don't know if there is there's this kind of if you were to go full Freudian on it it's this kind of proving yourself but I never felt I've met other adopted people who felt like they were abandoned my parents did such a good job of making sure I never cared about being adopted that I think they kind of went a bit overboard and I thought I was special which was worse actually it gave me this inflated sense of self as a child because I was like everyone wanted me and do you know what I mean they had to kind of dole me out to see who would get me so I was adopted at three months old my birth parents were very young and the relationship wasn't on the cards and it was you know Ireland in the 80s so I was adopted three months old into the family I'm in now my brother's adopted and I was adopted into a fairly like my mum was a nurse my dad was a draftsman kind of like a regular normal family so because I did have this slight show pony side to me I had these fantasies that I'd you know I'd come from this kind of pantomime dynasty or you know what's your one's name the Russian child that they they found and they didn't Anastasia oh yeah like that of the theatre world the arts but of course when I found my birth parents they were exactly like my adopted parents there was literally no difference you're just a one off yeah there was my birth mother even looks like my adopted mother like it's crazy but yeah so there was no big showbiz dynasty in the end just like my own and what was it like meeting you know and if this is all too personal you can tell me to not ask these questions but what was it I've got a friend who was adopted and he's talked to me quite extensively about meeting his birth mother and the feelings around that and obviously it's going to differ each time.

35:25How did you feel? Weirdest thing about being adopted is the thing that really gave me quite a hang up and I would even go so far because I'm in my 40s now when you look back a little bit of an identity crisis if that's not too grandiose a term to use I don't think so at all. for this time in my life where I was like who the fuck am I? Because there was no blueprint. You can't look behind you and go oh well actually I'm the image of Uncle Pat and he's really good at that thing and I'm really good at that thing. You don't have that. so you're definitely trying to figure out and my mum my parents put me into every single extracurricular activity going because they were like Jesus this woman could be a pianist and we don't like you know she could be an Olympian I was none of those things but the one thing I did take to was drama and stuff but that was and I was I got cast and stuff when I was younger only because I was so loud they were like she can project her voice like knowing her age they were like we don't even need a mic on her she is so loud I was just this really loud baby but not looking like anyone I found hard and I was so envious of family like that looked like each other.

36:26I really, I was jealous as too strong. I envied that a lot. And that did cause some confusion, I think, growing up. So when I found my birth parents, my father, my birth father, the second I saw him on Facebook, because that's how modern family tracking works. Yeah. I was like, oh my God. It was me as a 60 year old man. But it must be bizarre. It was bizarre. I'm kind of used to it now, but at the start it was such a buzz. It was such a buzz. And what about meeting him? Yeah, he's fab. He's quite cool. He's got an earring. Oh, yeah. Cool dad. He's quite groovy. He's a groovy man. He lives in Melbourne, Australia, and he's got four sons who are all the absolute spit of me as well.

37:04I know, it's crazy. I saw that picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the same. Yeah. I just find it fascinating. And like, I've met other people in my life that I look like because there's only so many features in the world and faces are ultimately just a mashup. You know, you're going to come across people that look similar to you, but seeing them and breaking down their face with my face I loved it it's wild it was like an amazing sudoku yeah and how do you think sort of growing up maybe teenage years that sense of maybe lacking what your identity was or who you were and it's obviously identity is such a hot topic today like everyone feels like it's very important to say where I'm from what I'm about you know whatever it might be what makes you up as a human how did that impact you know teenage years are shit as they are they're difficult to navigate working out who you are in the world but you had that sort of added yeah i know going on yeah it was it was confusing at the time i just thought i was just i again because i don't know what other people's experiences are inside themselves so i don't know but i definitely i've met other adopted people who don't really care they don't it doesn't bother them that piece of it doesn't bother them that much i guess because i had that little show pony side to me and that wasn't in the family i was adopted into which are obviously my family that I thought that I would find it in the OGs, the birth family.

38:26And I always had that in the back of my head. So when that didn't happen, you are kind of left in a bit of a limbo land then. You have to be like, oh, I'm just my own person. Oh, God. Yeah. I really wanted a blueprint because I was very confused about what I would do, as loads of people are. Had I met my birth family and one of them was an actor or one of them was a novelist, I would have been like, oh, okay, I can pursue that side of myself because it'll come good. But I didn't have that. So I was left in a bit of a limbo land. I was like, oh God, that didn't really. You're just going to rely on yourself.

38:58That's it, which is worst case scenario. Yeah. I didn't want to. I wanted to be told what to do. I wanted to be shown what the future me was going to be like, what it was going to look like, what it was going to work as. And I did get the physical thing from my birth father. But the career character thing I didn't get. Then I just had to figure it out for myself. And look, the worst... I mean, I think... It couldn't have gone worse for my mother, Patricia. It couldn't have gone worse. Poor Patricia. I know. I mean, down the line, does it feel quite liberating to not have that blueprint, that you are just quite literally navigating your way through things that feel right to you rather than going, I've got the pressure of, I must do this because it's in my lineage or I've been told I've got to do this.

39:42I think I would have massively benefited from having some sort of mentor in the family I think I would have I would have loved that I take direction well I love a kind of a wise slightly older person to advise and I didn't have that I mean who does in comedy but some people do some people come from parents who are comedy or parents who are in show business I would have really liked that but it wasn't there and that's fine you know I'm doing my own thing but I would have I think benefited massively from that It's also probably why I mean like me you're just completely independent and you just like I'm going to go on yeah exactly I'll tell you one amazing thing that happened one of my best friends Nora who we were in the same secondary school and she was similar to me she loved writing she loved English and we had that in common so she was a couple of years ahead of me and we became friends which doesn't usually happen in school usually the older girls are very separate yeah they look down on us like we're an absolute we're peasants like we're pieces of shit literally yes but we kind of formed our own friendship and then we went into university we both studied English in university but because we were so chaotic we started we both ended up as mature students finishing our degree in the same year so we became like best friends and her family are very arty her mum is an actor her father ran a theatre in Ireland in Dublin and she actually came with me to meet my birth mother and when we left the next day my birth mother added me on Facebook and she said how do you know XXX who's Nora's mother and I said oh she's Nora's mother and she said oh my god we're related her granny and my grandad are cousins what yeah yeah yeah I forgot about that yeah so then that was amazing because your best mate is your family yeah you're like second cousins or something yeah yeah yeah what so I rang Nora and I was like are you sitting down because it was just amazing that is wild it is wild yeah I always forget that part of the story so that's and so then that so then I got that kind of theatre yeah That I wanted, I so badly wanted that.

41:47And I did actually get it in the end from the wings, kind of, from the wings. That's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I guess it is strange for anyone who, I mean, I'm certainly the first generation doing anything of the sort in terms of media, TV. My parents were, you know, from a working class family. My mum was doing about eight jobs. My dad's been a sign writer for his whole life. And I think you do think, oh God, who tells me how this works? Yeah, I know. Like when you first start doing telly, like who's going to tell me, am I doing this right do these people do they get to tell me what to do or can I say no I know it's really confusing it is and there's no training for it well I suppose there might be but it's yeah you're kind of you're very much on your own trying to figure it out and that's why experience is oh it's so amazing and that's why a mentor in any business is so useful to have find a mentor have you found one since so I have there's a comic an Irish comic an Irish American comic called Des Bishop who's very good to me for comedy like when I when I was doing my last tour at Prosecco and Prosecco turned into something we didn't we didn't anticipate it was going to be and I was like oh my god what you know what am I going to do about this and there was like 10 shows in a row and I was like I don't know if I can do them and you know all these kind of concerns and he was very good and he spoke to me about money and he spoke to me about who I can tell no to or who I can say no to who I have to say yes to priorities agents bookers he was really useful for all that stuff and I really needed him.

43:12I really needed him. I think a mentor is so underrated. I've got a mentor, but she's a friend, but we're quite boundaried about, right, I'm being a mentor now and here's my advice. She calls herself an elder and she'll give me loads of great advice, but then also we can hang out and be mates and that's not the dynamic. But I think it's so important to have someone older, wiser, more experienced to just say a few words of wisdom. And equally, and I don't know how you feel about this, but I would love to be that for someone else one day. I don't know if I quite know. yet but I think you know would you do that in the comedy world and yeah I'm always trying to mentor Grace Campbell she's like I don't need it I'm bigger than you she's like okay I've surpassed that yeah I'm like swigging out of a wine I'm like and another thing right she's like I just did an Apollo I really don't need your help but a hundred percent and I love seeing acts come up and you're like oh you're like you're gonna you're you can see the magic they're gonna do it yeah but it took me a while to get to the point to be able to do that I remember very early on in my career people were coming to me for advice and help and I was like I don't know like I am still like on the first rung of this ladder I have no idea I have no wisdom to impart upon you I am still climbing and hustling and I'm still climbing and hustling and the climb and the hustle never stops never which is half the crack of it yeah I don't think it does ever I think it's just and also I think if you've got ambitious goals which I think we both got ambitious goals you always sort of feel like you're on the first rung of the ladder.

44:37You never feel like I am nailing it guys. Ever. I wouldn't want to get to that point. There's always another thing that I want to try and do. That's a weird, even earlier when you kind of sit back and relax and kick your feet up, that's when it'll all fall apart. Yep. Never stop. Never stop. Keep walking till you die. Never sleep. Never sleep. Keep hustling. Yeah. But again, like I say, I really enjoy it because for the first year ever I've never done this well actually maybe I did once I like to make huge statements and then backtrack immediately like you and the pissing yourself all the time I've never pissed myself actually I pissed myself five times a day sorry guys I'm wearing panty liners right now all the time your nose is just growing with every line I literally have to wear period pants to go for a jog because I piss myself that bad yeah but you've had kids yeah there's no pelvic floor what's my excuse I've had no kids no kids did I tell you did I tell you the story about me going in to get my pelvic floor We're tested with Vogue.

45:36No, but I want to have this happen to me. What do you do? So there's these post... I was about to say hummus. What's it called when you have a baby? Hummus? I'm thinking of posthumous. They always call it hummus. Post birth. Post... Postpartum. Post hummus. Post hummus. Posthumous. I used to think it was post hummus. Post hummus again. Post hummus. Postpartum physios that you can go to. I know, I didn't do this. This is a very common place in France. Apparently, I think all French people get offered this service here. They're like, bye. pissed yourself forever yeah that's where I'm at yes well there's a post humus posthumous clinic I can't no one died I can't live it over now and Vogue was like look I'm going in Vogue's obviously had three kids and she was like come in with me be a good crack and I was like I have no interest going in going on my pelvic floor tested or whatever she's like come in I was like alright go on I'm not doing it and I was going and Vogue was in ahead of me and they have this it's basically the bull's chair we call it where you sit on it and it kind of buzzes your vaginal muscles back.

46:38I'm really up for this. How have you not done this? I don't know. I don't know because I'm really suffering daily. They would have offered this to you. This is my moment now saying it, a big broadcast out there. It could be too late. It's definitely too late. Do you know what I mean? It's a canyon down there, guys. There's literally nothing that can be done. Like it's a sinkhole, guys. There's nothing we can do. There's nothing to pull them back together. Is it two things coming back together? Is it just a weak floppy chair? Two chairs? What is it? So, and then it kind of buzzes your muscles back.

47:05Right. Now, I obviously waxed and all. I thought she was going to go in, but she wasn't. So when I got in there, Vogue's dressed in all white like J-Lo, lounging on this huge electric chair, just getting like demurely buzzed. And I was like ready to go. Do you know what I mean? So anyway, they put me on this chair where it reads how strong your pelvic floor is. Right. And Vogue gets on. You kind of pulse or clench. Oh, right. Yeah, I do try and do that. I'm just sort of, even in a podcast sometimes, I'll just be doing it. Yeah, yeah, your Kegels. Yeah, no one knows. But this machine Like reads it Like a heartbeat To see how strong it is So folks Mine has got no pulse It's deceased That's what happened to me Really you've got So Vogue gets on Three kids deep Ping ping She could have Done heart surgery With the precision Of her heartbeat Up and down Up and down Like a scalpel Right Yeah Climb on Flatline What's going on When did you give birth I said I've I said I've never I've never given birth I've never given birth I've never given birth plug the machine in plug it in plug it in so that's why so when you talk about that now I'm she put me on the chair so as Vogue bounces out no post-hummus treatment needed no and I I continue to go to the clinic they're like we're gonna need to see you again I'll come with you I'll be your body because I am pissing for England because we sit on the bike clenching yeah yeah yeah you should go I'm going I mean this is my catalyst to go it's happening Because we spoke about, because then I was going in, her name's Maria, she's lovely, she's a physiotherapist, she's a postpartum physiotherapist, and she was talking about the damage that childbirth can do to a woman's body, and then they're just like stitched up off, you go.

48:41I know. You know what I mean? I was so lucky, and this is TMI for sure, but I had no stitches, it was all absolutely great. Did a bit of the lubing pre-hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No stitches, but the pelvic floor, it's not there. No stitches though. It's not there. One of my friends, I'm not going to say her name, just in case, she probably doesn't want me telling everyone this probably not but when she gets drunk she's like not a single stitch that's like her party trick story I've just said it sober on a podcast that's a humble brag that's a flex I didn't think we were going to get onto the pelvic floor but I'm so glad we have it's a journey it's a journey yeah but seriously get on that no no I'm doing it I mean that's going to be our next date so get ready just holding hands across the pelvic floor just vibrating away on a commode as we gently urinate.

49:32Christ. Well, until then, have a bloody good tour. Is that it? We've done, we've talked for 45 minutes. Oh my God. Goes quite quick, doesn't it? Yeah. When you're having fun. I loved that. I loved that. Thanks, Karen. Unless there's anything else you want to say. Oh, I know. I've got one question for you. All right, go on. Where's your happy place, Joanne? Is it wanky to say on stage? Oh, I think that's delightful. Yeah, I think it's on stage. I think that's so beautiful because I think for those, like me that can get utter stage fright to imagine that experience of this is where I feel the most me that's amazing stage in the wings maybe just when you're about to go on that's when I get the most excited and the bath the bath yeah but the stage and the bath that's a good combo on stage yeah do that next tour yeah love pass out from the ecstasy of it all yeah stage I would say gorgeous well look it's been great talking to you thank you I think you're fucking great can I say with the ticket yeah all tickets available for the new show Stan Michelle Pinafile are available on my website, joannemcnally.com.

50:30Done. UK and Ireland. Love. Thank you. Thank you, Joanne. Woo! I loved that. I loved every second of that. I think, and this might be creepy, I think I'm courting Joanne to be my new best friend. I'm going to have to put a call into vogue just to see if that's okay. But I just felt happy during that whole time with her. I felt full of joy. And I've given her my number, whether she wanted it or not. So we'll see if she texts me. Joanne will be on tour across the UK in 2025 and 2026. Her tour, as you heard, has a brilliant name. It's called Pinophile. Now, if you want to be kept company over the festive period, come and join our merriment on Instagram.

51:15We're over at Happy Place Official. Otherwise, I'll catch you back here next week for some reflections on what a brilliant year it's been on Happy Place, if I do blow my own trumpet. bit. I wonder if your favourite episode of the year is the same as mine. I've picked some of them and given you some behind the scenes goss. Anyway, in the meantime, a huge thanks again to Joanne, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and the biggest thanks to you. Have a bloody good Christmas.

52:18We'll see you next time.

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53:04Call, visit us online, or drop by a branch to learn more. Atlantic Union Bank, any way you bank. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home Home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games. Saints and sinners. Unexpected laughs and unspoken truths. Good times, hard times, and of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue. A world premiere play only at Arena Stage. Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org. Dr. India Woods here. As a veterinarian, I demand a lot of my scrubs on the job.

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