Joel Dommett: “Pretending’s the first step!” Build confidence and quieten nerves

0:00Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that makes you feel a little bit lighter. Today I'm chatting to the lovely Joel Domit. I've got these awful flashes of what I think is the worst part of my personality that came out at this time. I have a flash of me being dragged by two marathon employees to the ambulance and me shouting at what is people who are watching the marathon. I'm just going like, someone record this! like I think I'm more important than the 50 ,000 people who are running like it's the worst side of me that's ever come out and god forbid it never comes out again I'm really excited for you to hear this episode for lots of reasons one of them is because I mean we touched on lots of different subjects but one thing we talk about is really trying to sort of be present and find joy in the moment and I think it's been a bit of a theme of my week I took my kids to the circus it was a circus with it's like an old school circus no you know animals being mistreated etc just sort of acrobatics and a clown doing ridiculously funny things and it was one of those moments where I was mainly watching my kids faces which were lit up so beautifully they were like laughing their heads off squealing with joy and I sort of got carried along with it and I like I'm sure many of you I'm the sort of person that can get a little bit in my head.

1:30And if I'm at something like the circus, I could be thinking, oh, my God, when I get home, I need to do the laundry. And then I forgot to buy cat food. And I'm just running a mental list of what I need to do next. But actually, just watching their faces and seeing the joy in the moment made me do exactly like it was contagious. It was so wonderful. And it's something I've been thinking about a hell of a lot recently. I mean, it's obviously you're not going to get that all the time. I did also go to a Jurassic Park experience with the world's worst hangover the day before. And let me tell you, I was not present.

2:03I was hot and bothered and it was really noisy. It was great fun. The kids loved it. But I was like, it's not it's not with a hangover is my tip of the day. So we're going to talk about all sorts of things, including being present and in the moment. Let's talk about Joel in a niche way first. He is such a beloved comedian and TV presenter. and he hosts the Never Have I Ever podcast with his lovely wife Hannah too. I absolutely adore Joel. We've sort of met each other over the years at work things and he's been on Celebrity Juice and personally I love being a viewer of his TV shows. Me and the kids are obsessed with The Masked Singer.

2:42Do you know what I do on long car journeys? If I'm really bloody bored and I'm on my own I will listen to random songs on shuffle and sing along to them and when I've really nailed a song, I think that would be my Masked Singer song. I mean, what a loser. That's so tragic. But I am like a mega fan of the Masked Singer. I just think Joel is brilliant and as you probably imagine as a viewer, he is as nice as he is on TV in real life. He's just a bloody good guy. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast.

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4:39Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. Riley Herbst from 2311 Racing checking in. Got a break in between team meetings? Sounds like the perfect time for some fast-paced fun at Chumba Casino. No waiting, just instant action to keep you going. So next time you need a pick-me-up, fire it up and take a spin. Play now at ChumbaCasino.com. Let's Chumba! No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidware prohibited by law. CT &Cs 21 Plus, sponsored by Chumba Casino.

5:16We're going to get to Joel in just a second, but a quick reminder that the Happy Place Festival in Gunnersbury Park, London is only OMG three weeks away. I actually can't believe it. I am buzzing with excitement. And then we're going to be at Tatton Park, Cheshire on the 30th and 31st of August. I'd love it if you come along. Have you got your tickets yet? I hope so. It's going to be so gorgeous. We're going to do all sorts of nice things there. We've got some lovely workshops and lovely talks. There's so much to do across the days, whether you want to do arts and crafts or yoga of all levels, breath work, like relaxing sound baths, which mean you basically just lie down and someone makes nice noises and you feel super, super chilled.

5:57Get your tickets at happyplacefestival.com. Okay, look, there's no official start to this podcast episode because we were just already talking and I'd already interviewed Joel once that day. So we're just, it was just like one long stream of consciousness that you are jumping into here goes here's the show

6:37stupid things this was uh no one wants to hear about tattoos but this is a uh it's a bird it's a a crow on my arm and people like why have you got a crow on your arm and the genuine reason is that uh the lady who did it was good at crows are you joking no you're like just do a crow just what i was like what are you good at she's like i think uh crows and so i got a like and it's they always want to do it bigger than you wanting because I was like, oh, maybe I get small crows, take something in my entire forearm. Absolutely massive. It's like two full days. I mean, she is good at crows. I mean, this is another bad story that's really bad.

7:17So I got this done and then at the end of the first day, I noticed there was this weird line coming out the back of the crow. What? And I was like, that's weird. What is that line? And then I Google imaged the picture that she'd gone from and I realized that she'd not gone from a picture of a crow. she tattooed a picture of a taxidermy crow that was hanging from someone's roof and the line was the bit of like string. And I was like, that's a bit of string. She's like, no, no, it's not. And then she covered it up on the second day. So it's not even a real, when you look at it, you're like, oh yeah, that doesn't actually look like.

7:52It's a dead crow. It's a dead crow. It's so emo. Wow. It's a bit of you that, dead crow. It's so me in the early noughties. It's a joke. That's stuffed with something. That's not a real, a crow isn't like. no it's really not straight arms out no it's got some sort of flow to it it's just a dead crow some sort of flow it's just a dead crow that's why his eyes look so lifeless wow a soulless crow which is also the name of my new band what a bad name actually someone needs to take that soulless crow just a free name for you guys I like talking about tattoos Joel Domit a lot me and Ryland did an exploration of bad tattoos recently we've both got Chinese symbols there is no more awful tattoo I don't think Like, no judgment from me.

8:36I mean, I have a teddy bear because Teddy Swims can only do that tattoo. That's the only one he can do. Because that is a story. It's the story behind it that's important. It's the story behind it. Because it makes you remember. What I love about tattoos is that it bookmarks your life at a certain time. Yeah. So, like, there's no other reason for me to remember the Edinburgh show that I did where I got the Edinburgh tattooed on my ribs there. and it's like a grotty little tattoo place where I realised halfway through, it's a tiny tattoo and it took like three hours and it would have taken anyone who was good at tattooing 15 minutes, right?

9:13And halfway through these two hours, that's when I asked him of his experience. Oh. Turns out first tattoo. Brilliant. Brilliant. And what is that, that tattoo? It's my first Edinburgh show that I wrote as a comedian. It was called Neon Hero. Right. And so it's got neon here and it's, I cannot tell you how small it is. And it took two and a half hours. Was he shaking? Shaking, sweating. I was like, mate, why is, and that was my second tattoo. I was like, maybe this is normal. No. That a guy is like perspiring over me. So great. Hey, talking of touring, you've been touring literally all year and you're gearing up now for a second leg of your Happy Idiot tour.

9:58I'm doing the Palladium next year. I mean, that is such a great gig venue. It's really beautiful. And I actually haven't done a proper London tour date for maybe like five or six years. Really? Yeah, it's really weird. I just didn't, my last tour, I didn't really go in because you do periphery towns of London. I never really went and did a big one in London. So I'm really, I genuinely have loved writing this tour because it feels like I've actually got something not just to write about, but to care about. Because now I've got an 18-month-old child and it's new too and so that feels like I feel like I'm just sort of doing it for a different reason I'm not just doing it because I love it I'm now doing it because I'm like oh this is like I feel like it's a real privilege what I do for a living and you know it's all very cheesy isn't it but suddenly I'm like oh this is why you make a bit of money so you can take it home and feed your child yeah yeah there is feeding the child and entertaining the child and buying clothes for the child and all the things like that tell you what Well, I'm finding the difficult thing.

10:59Go on, hit me. Not to turn this into a parenting podcast. Yeah. You've got to find the right clothing that fits the child at the time, which like the ages of clothing is like, you know, all over the shop. Sometimes he's in free. Sometimes he's in an year and a half. But then you've got to buy the right seasons. Yeah. So literally he'll wear something for like a day and a half and then you're like, it's gone. It's done. It's gone. Why can't he just wear sacks? Sacks? Do you know what I mean? Just put them in like a hessian sack for four years. Bring the Victorian era back. Yes. Yeah. Just put them in a little hole on top of a hessian sack.

11:36Pop them in that. I'm seeing like the Joel Domit baby range looming. It's happening. Yeah. And then you can turn it back upside down and use it as a bag. With a hole in the bottom. A hole in the bottom. I'll get my wife to sew that up. Should we put you on Dragon's Den? Should I call Stephen Bartlett? Yes. Should we see if this has like got legs? I'll get Deborah Meaden to put a bag on her and be like, what do you think? What do you think, Peter? Well, now we've solved your parenting dilemmas. Yes. Let's talk about your life at the moment, because you've had a huge moment that you've just turned 40 at the weekend on Sunday.

12:11You had a big party Saturday. The big question is, why was Ben Shepard pulling you around the floor by your arms? My 40th party, someone said to me at the party, Joel, this is the weirdest collection of people in one room that I've ever been involved in in my life. Who are we talking? Who's there? So we had like Ben Shepard there. Who is the nicest man ever to live. What a wonderful human being who's so nice and so successful while being so lovely. Yeah, and like muscly. And muscly. Yeah. When you hug him, you grab such a big amount of lat. There's so much lat. There's so much lat. Disproportionate lat to just like, oh.

12:53Yeah. Feels like he's smuggling baguettes. Maybe he is. He's carb loading. Yeah, maybe grab one out. Just nibble on the end. Maybe you go from the middle because that's the nicest. I love Ben. I climbed Kilimanjaro with Ben. Could there be a better person to walk for hours on end through just relentless grey rock with? No. Such a good guy. He's so lovely. This is all going to, can we do the next 45 minutes about him? Just about Ben. Just about Ben Sheppard. I mean, I could fill a podcast about Ben. Yeah, he's absolutely great. We're actually starting a business together. Are you? To give it a small tease.

13:24But yeah, we're going to. Can you tell us what it is or no? It's a secret. I don't really know whether we're allowed to yet. Baguettes. It's fully all about carbs. This is exciting. It's called smugglebaguette.com. Okay. I'm in. And Hessian Sacks. Hessian Sacks. It's a niche business that we're going into, but I think it's going to be really successful. But so you'd have Ben Shepard, then you had Lee Mack, and then you had Wayne Bridge. Yeah. Frankie Bridge from the Saturdays. Then also like Sam Carter, who's the lead singer of Architects, my favorite band. So you've got like a metal singer talking to my dad, who's a truck driver from Bristol, talking to Lee Mack and then Ben Shepard.

14:10So great. You've covered all the areas, like all the genres. Yeah, it's a very strange, it was a weird thing. So I haven't had a party since I was like 21. And I genuinely found it quite hard to enjoy. Why is that? Yeah, it's a weird one because I don't know whether it's because of my job. I think my job is to make people in a room enjoy themselves, right? Yeah, so you feel responsible. Yeah, and I found it really difficult to like go like, I'm having fun instead of thinking like, oh, is everyone here having fun? And my wife who had organized the whole thing incredibly. came up to me and was like, you're having fun?

14:44And I was like, I think so. Which is not the answer you want to hear when you've spent the last sort of two months trying to make sure that you've got the right venue and that you've, who can make a cake made entirely of my face. Yeah, great cake. Great cake. And so, yeah, but I eventually got drunk and it was fine. It's really interesting, that responsibility that I think a lot of entertainers feel that it does spill over into your private life. You know, it is your job, as you've just stated, to entertain a whole room of people and they've paid money to be there, there is an accountability. Like you want to show up and do your best.

15:21They go home thinking, yeah, I'm glad I got a babysitter. I'm glad I bought the ticket. I'm glad that I took the time to travel from wherever. That is tricky when you end up in social situations where, you know, that's not the setting to have to carry that weight, but you kind of end up doing it. I get it. Yeah, and I also charge people to be at my party too, so that helped. But like the... No, I didn't. But yeah, no, I do. I was talking to you about this earlier, but I think. Yeah, this is my second interview with you today. Which is fantastic. It's like a lot. No, it's not. That's great. It's so, me too.

15:53It's great. And let's make it a third. I agree. Let's go. Women's hour? Yes, please. Okay. I find it so strange now doing gigs because I appreciate the audience more than I ever have. before I used to do gigs it was like lovely that people were there and I was like this is so cool what I'm doing but now I feel like I I understand when someone gets a babysitter to to be here and spends money to to be sat there and have a nice evening when I see someone in the audience laughing it does something to me that that makes me appreciate it so much more than I've ever appreciated it because I know what it means to like turn your phone off for like an hour and a half and spend this evening with me and i know how expensive babysitters are i know how much parents don't want to leave their children with other people like that's a real responsibility they give someone all of those things just to spend a night with with a guy that they've seen on a show or something that they might find funny it's it's like a lot of trust and if i think about that that pressure too much then it all becomes a bit much yeah but i just try and just enjoy enjoy it and have a nice time.

17:07I always try and think as little about stuff as possible. Otherwise, it becomes really overwhelming. Yeah, you need to almost get into a meditative flow where you're just in the jokes and nothing else exists. Is that easy enough to do? I try to. I try to really boil it down to what it actually is. When I do the NTAs, the O2, live on ITV. It's terrifying. All of the people who would be better at your job are sat right in front of you watching you. And I just try and go, it's just reading, isn't it? So I've just got to read this thing that's on the orc queue. Can you get to that place in your head?

17:43I don't think I've ever really managed to do that. I kind of pretend that I can. And I think pretending is the first step on the ladder to becoming it. Again, probably a very cheesy thing to say. But I think if I just really, really pretend that that's what it's about. I know in my heart of hearts I'm nervous. But that is all that it is. I've just got to read. and it's you bring your heart rate as low as possible because you know you can't read autocue if your heart rate's right through the roof because you start too fast you got nowhere to go so if you start really chill and enjoying yourself then and also it draws everyone in everyone's like oh this guy's comfortable yeah so how do you get to that state because I think I when I was younger I definitely could do that naturally because I was naive enough and maybe even cocky enough to think yeah you know I'm on TV and this is what I love doing and it was just all very second nature and then I think the older I got that just died and the heart rate was really hard to control the nerves would kick in if I didn't feel safe and I think I found it almost impossible to go just be really really chilled I mean I can do it in certain environments I love doing talks I love doing this I don't feel I feel as calm as I humanly could but there are some situations certainly live TV where I would feel there was no way I could control it what's your method to get into that mind state I really think about your interview with Davina that you did I think it was either her on yours or you're on hers yeah when you talked about how you did radio two for a week and it was cover and you just didn't sleep yeah and it was getting worse and worse and you kept on thinking about it I genuinely think about that all the time because I feel like that's that is there in me and this job is very strange in the way that you do at some points have hundreds of thousands or millions of people listening to you and if you think about the weight of that then it is just you it's it's all consuming it's too much but if you boil it down to what it actually is it's you with a microphone which is such a weird contrast that you I can't I think I live somewhere in the middle of that and I try I'm basically I feel like my life is constantly dealing with swinging from either side or both of our lives is that I think and I difference to you I think you were thrust immediately into this madness from quite an early age and you're immediately one these massive shows and in these magazines and being known as you and then you I think maybe learned to deal with that that gravity later on of like oh my god I was huge back then definitely whereas me it was the other way around I suppose where when I was younger I was just doing stand-up for a really long time and then built my way up the stand-up ranks and did all that did the Edinburgh shows did the tours and uh to nobody played rooms of two people and one of those people would walk out halfway through and then when I did start to get on telly when I'd probably been doing it for about eight years something like that it felt like it was uh to a degree and I suppose at that point in my career not to say it wasn't for you but like um so I felt like it was easier to deal with then and and now I think because I look back and go like wow that was that was my life without it I suppose I think stand-up is so brutal and I guess if you're going to gain resilience.

21:18It's going to be in that environment where, like you say, you're in a show and you can see the audience really clearly. They're sat in front of you. It's not like viewers at home watching TV. If people don't like it, you know, the jokes aren't landing. You know, people walking out, you see them go. How did you initially cope with that? Because it is a real dent to your ego when, you know, you believe something you're going to say is really funny. And when the reception isn't there, that's a really hard thing to stomach. But it's on the flip side of that. And again, I'm an eternal optimist. So the flip side of that is that it's the most beautifully productive thing that you could ever do in your life, right?

21:55You go out and you do a set and a bit works, a bit doesn't. And the tagline works and you're like, oh, I feel like I'd add to that. And then the next night you go out and you do it again. A couple of weeks ago, me and my wife, we did a speech together at a friend's wedding. And that's really fun. writing it together and doing all this stuff and then we of course what happens is all the bits that you think are absolute bankers really fun bit goes like fine and the bit that you didn't even think was like you thought it was just a little funny bit but not really anything that's like the bit that everyone's rolling with laughter having the best time of life so you never really know until you do it but I said to Hannah I was like can you do for the first time in life she got it what I do for a living and though I was like imagine if we were doing that speech again somewhere else tomorrow, imagine how much better that speech would be tomorrow.

22:47Because we'd take that bit that worked really well and we'd enhance it and we'd like nurture that bit. We'd get rid of the bits that we thought were great but actually were really shit. And then we'd like tie the end up. And like that's the process that I love so much. It's like data. You're just collecting data every night. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. And you learn that, yeah, the deaf stuff is not nice. Like you have bad gigs. But I think that was also, again to the flip side of it keeps you like a good person yeah because i expect if you're like a rock star and you're going out every night and everyone's loving you every single night it's sort of your brain just tells you that you're like you're great you're incredible it's not good for a human it's not good right it's really not it's i still even obviously you know how to avoid the bad gigs now i suppose but you uh you still have to work up material for a new tour you have to go out in front of smaller audiences that don't know that you're going to be there.

23:42They might be like a massive fan of Tim Vine sort of stuff and then they've got you and then you have a bad gig and you go, okay, cool. You know, it keeps you like a bit, hopefully, nice. Hashtag humble. I am so humble. Joel D from the block. I'm so humble. You are, you're just a humble guy. Does touring life suit you? Because it's quite an unusual way to live and I know that obviously, you know you can make it work to an extent with your family life and whatever you're doing now because you're at that level but it's still full-on there's a lot of traveling involved not staying at home you can get lonely you know how does it work for you again i don't think people realize this about stand-up is that they don't have to be exhaustive stand-up comedy tours like if you're in a band you have to you have the trucks that have all your set and your drums and everything and so you do like if i was a band you'd go out on tour like for a month like bash bash bash bash bash you'd be away from home for that whole time it'd be really hard and sleeping in a tour bus and stuff with stand-up it's great because like I can just once that show is written I go out for like two nights a week go there do that stuff and then I can do filming bits in between and then I can make sure I'm even if I'm out and I'm hours and hours away I just drive home and get back at three in the morning and then I'll be waking up for breakfast with my son so it's um it's genuinely being on tour isn't as hard as writing the tour writing the tour you've got to be out as many nights as possible for like two or three months like to just like getting that tour ready and again going to like gigs that you don't even know are good so there'll be like ones where there'll be like no people there there'll be like shows that aren't right for new material where people are like why are you reading from a book like this is weird i don't get and like that's the hard part and you've got to do it so many nights a week because if you do that once a week by the time you go back and do it again the next week you've forgotten what worked and what didn't yeah because it's like in those really tiny little moments you have to like go do three nights on the bounce at least sometimes doing three night three gigs in a night just go in and gig, gig, gig, gig, gig.

25:59I don't think I realised how exhaustive that bit was. I don't think I'd really given it, I guess it's like you're training for the Olympics and the tour is the actual Olympics, but the bit you're doing before is like that's the training. I don't think I'd realised how hardcore that is, yeah. And it's great on one hand because like, imagine if musicians could do that. They could go out and be like, do you like this chord? Is this a good song or should we ditch it? Yeah, should we get rid of this verse? Yeah, it's handy. It's great. The interesting thing about being a stand-up, I sort of liken it in a way, I watched that Netflix tennis documentary.

26:29Yes. I never remember the name of it. Break and Point? Point, point, point, point, point, point, point, point, which one was it? Keanu Reeves surfing or I don't know. Anyway, one of those. And it's so interesting being a standup, being a tennis player, you are on your own. Yeah. And I don't mean that just sort of like physically in the job, but mentally I'm imagining, I mean, I would feel like this. It's quite a lonely place because if you're playing tennis or you're doing standup, You can only rely on hope that it's going to go well, the knowledge that you have a skill set and some sort of inherent drive that you know is going to keep you moving in the right direction, even when things aren't on track.

27:10So, I mean, it's not even just in a singular gig, but in the terms of starting out in comedy, wanting a career, you've got to remain optimistic, hopeful, resilient, confident without a team of people. Like you're not in a football team. You're not in a team working on a project together. It's just you. Yeah. Why do you think you as a person, your personality suits that and is able to or has been able to do that to succeed? I didn't I didn't really realise until I had a child myself that I realised that my childhood was actually quite so geared towards me being a stand up comedian. I think it suits me as a person.

27:50I was a bit of a loner, I suppose. I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere where I couldn't travel to like the nearest town without getting a lift from my mom. And so it was like very isolating. My brother always wanted to be a farmer. So he was so happy on the farm, whereas I didn't. So I just would just sit in my room and make up stories and make up performances from my mom and all of that stuff. So that sort of loner lifestyle has just been really perfect for me. And like when I first started, that sort of drive that you were talking about, I didn't really, that naivety that you said you had in your career, that naivety in stand-up is just you're doing it because you love it.

28:31I didn't think about it being career ever. And I had no idea that you could make a career out of it. I was just doing it because I was like, this is so fun. and for the first time even though I was a real loner I had a community you had all these stand ups around you meet up at all these gigs and you'd talk about this amazing thing comedy that you'd be like oh my god I've got this amazing new dvd that I need to show you and and uh there's this new clip on youtube that's incredible and we felt like we were a new generation that it felt different for us because youtube started in 2006 i started comedy in 2007 so it felt like suddenly there was this huge wealth of material that we could watch and we were being influenced by american comics in an entirely different way i think the generation before slightly didn't um and it just felt like it felt so special i looking back now it was the most incredible time where i didn't know what i was involved in was so special i just moved to london because i just didn't really want to live where i grew up and i just moved into a flat of my friends found this thing called comedy and we just go out and do gigs like sometimes i've got a little bike from a charity shop and i'd run it from because i found out if you had a bike you could do more gigs in a night you you'd like print out the timeout listings for that night have loads of names on it then you would be able to do you were like oh that's probably an open mic gig so i'll try and see if i can get onto that one if i didn't get onto that one i'd go to another timeout gig that i saw it in the listings and then i didn't get onto that one i'd go to another one riding my bike around town trying to get like stage time and uh yeah and i just um i just love i like loved it it was all because i just like love this thing called comedy and it's it's funny because like now i do for a living doing presenting and all that stuff people might not even know that I did stand up but I'd done all this time as a stand-up comedian but I think it's really shaped me and my certainly my work ethic I think and what I do and how I like to work on shows and how I like to like feel like an authorship to to to what I'm reading on an autocue and I just uh yeah really shaped who I am, I think.

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33:01Do you think you have to be obsessive to do well in stand-up? Because it is niche and it is, I'm imagining there's lots of people out there that would love to give it a go. Yeah. I'm imagining there's got to be a level of obsession that keeps you in that forward motion. Yeah, I think it is an obsession actually. I think there's this weird thing where like, I feel like everyone should do it. It's so special. Like, why doesn't everyone do it? Because lots of people are really unfunny. Yeah, but like, I know loads of unfunny comedians. I'm not a funny guy. Of course you are. What are you talking about?

33:31You can learn to do like, you can learn to be a runner. Do you think? It's the same thing. I really feel. Really? There is people who have a natural thing for it. There's certain people, and it's usually those oddball weirdos that there's certain people on the stand-up circuit or on telly now, you know, who are just, there's nothing else that they could do. There is nothing else in the world. Like Paul Foot. Paul Foot. I love Paul. Incredible. There's a newer comedian, at least this guy, called Sam Campbell, who was on Taskmaster a couple of years ago. He's unbelievable. You're like, well, what else would he do if he was this incredible entertainer?

34:08I'm sure I'd hate being called an entertainer, but, you know, and it's just these brilliant, brilliant I love that's why again I love stand-up it's like this thing where it gives a job to people who shouldn't have a job you know what I mean honestly when I first saw Paul so I I met Paul Foote because he was on last comic standing which is a show that I hosted on NBC in the states yeah oh my god this is mad so Paul and I were the only Brits on the show so we obviously just became mates and we ended up doing all sorts of weird things because we were really bored a lot of the time hanging around i mean we went i we went to a strip club in las vegas together i got him a lap dance which was the funniest thing i've ever seen because paul doesn't like women for a start i mean he likes them as friends um but it was just the best night out he and watching him do stand-up I don't think I've ever laughed so much in my life it's so weird it's so odd it's so odd and none of it should work but it is it doesn't hit the it doesn't hit the the classic beats no like no one could write a pull foot joke no and um they're not even jokes they're not even joke they're just like and somehow you find yourself this again is this obsession is so incredible because like sometimes people don't follow that rhythm like minor stories I suppose would follow quite a classic rhythm of like a story so you get why the audience are all laughing in unison at that that moment but someone like paul you're like oh why how are the room all knowing to laugh at this moment because it's so all over the place with this rhythm russell kane is another one like that he's someone who's so good in the room and he's so funny and his rhythm is so different to it you would never be able to write it down like how it works and uh paul fook gave me my first job.

36:02Really? How come? So I was on the Paul Foot radio show. It was for this thing called Resonance FM, which was like, it's not a thing anymore. But it's, it was basically this weird little radio show that he had. And I went in to be a guest on it. It was again, I must have been doing stand up for like two, three years or something. And he, he went, oh, do you want to come in as a regular? And I thought, yeah, of course. So I think came in as regular and this is really early days of podcasts he then got me to edit the show and make it into a podcast and put it up on and i used to put it up on thing and we were in this was when there was like 10 podcasts wow so i used to make the pool foot podcast with him that's crazy and uh that was a really big thing for me to sort of again it's all like levels with stand-up it was like this ladder this really slow ladder which is really necessarily slow it's really nothing happens in stand-up too early.

36:59You've got to earn your stripes. And it's great. Yeah. And it's great in that way. You can be like really frustrated like, oh, why have I not got this show? And then you're like, oh, you look back when you do get it, you're like, oh, it's because I wasn't good enough. You know, I wasn't ready or whatever. And he like lifted me up to that first rung, I suppose. That's so amazing. Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? We love Paul Fett. We love Paul Fett. And that, the mad thing with that, that was probably 16 years ago. God, that's crazy. I haven't done stand-up like 18 years. That's so amazing. I saw Kat Cohen the other day, who I thought was amazing.

37:28I don't know if you've ever seen her stuff. So funny. Her songs are genius. Again, I was crying. Like, my ribs were hurting. I'm a massive fan of hers. I think she's incredible. Her Netflix. She's got one of Netflix. Yeah, yeah. She's so funny. She's very, very clever. She's so funny. And it's just, and again, there's something for everyone. That's why I like, that's why it's, people get annoyed at the moment. It's very divisive comedy, I suppose. It's like people get frustrated that certain people are saying certain things. there's also another comedian for you. Find your one. There's loads of us.

37:59Yeah. And that's what I love about it. When I was watching a bunch of your stand up prior to this chat, I had a very long train journey on Monday and it kept me highly entertained. I was going to Newcastle and - I must've made it much longer. No, it made time fly. But there's something so brilliant about when you walk on stage, you are there, your energy is there. It's big, you're straight in. Sometimes you're almost sort of shouting, like you're excited. We know that you want to be there and you've got something to say and you're quite urgent about saying it. How do you maintain those energy levels?

38:28Because I'm imagining doing that, whether it is night on night when you're testing material or you're on tour, that's quite a draining thing to do. Yeah, I suppose so. And it's like, it's definitely my earlier gigs when I look back at my stuff on tally from years and years ago, I can see a much more of a falseness that I had on stage that was more of a performative thing than maybe it is now. But I don't really find it that draining, I suppose. I just, I genuinely enjoy it. I really enjoy it. And hopefully, again, when it sort of crosses across the television, when people seem to say like, oh, you look like you're really enjoying yourself on television.

39:09I really do. I feel like it's, to say it again, a real privilege what I do for a living. And I think it's in that process of it that I find the enjoyment of it because I feel like because I do change it every night and try and make it like fun for myself by changing things as much as possible. And I love the puzzle of the show and going, OK, I'm going to put that bit in there and then I'm going to mention that bit again there. And then how do I tie this show together? What is this show fundamentally about? Can I make it have a sort of a little bit of pathos at the end? And my shows don't tend to be just me talking for an hour and a half.

39:49It tends to have some sort of thing in there that's a bit more of a showpiece, I suppose, somewhere at a certain point. And so putting that bit together and making it worth it, that's really fun. And yes, I genuinely love it. I mean, you are doing a hell of a lot. And you are managing to juggle, continue your stand-up career, TV presenting, marathon running. that there's like a lot going on. Would you say your personality is the type that needs to do maybe a bit too much? Push yourself a little too much? Yeah, I definitely like having a lot to do. I think it's probably considered ADHD, but I just, I would never know.

40:30Undiagnosed. Undiagnosed. I mean, same here. Yeah. I tick many boxes. Yeah. Just haven't done the test. Yeah, you sit in a room, like in a green room with those stand-up comedians and you're like, well this could be some sort of documentary about some sort of spectrum I think it's like we're all on it somewhere and uh it's yeah I love to be really busy and it feels really as soon as I'm not busy I'm like why I should be doing something now which I need to try and get better at which again my son has really helped with because now when I'm not busy what I'm doing is hanging out with him yeah and that is so time consuming and so like it's it's so consuming it takes every bit of you to be there which I love which I really love and um my wife always really laughs because I'll go like the bit that we'll look at the we can look at the diary in bed I don't know whether that's a very sexy it's such a look at the diary before we go to sleep yeah before we slide the eye mask down.

41:31Oh, I love an eye mask. I've got a silky one. Have you got the drowsy one? No. Mate, you need to get the drowsy one. What the fuck is that? It's like padded and it goes over your ears as well. Why have I not got that? It's silky. I've just got like a commonal garden eye mask. You need to step up your eye mask. I need to. It's fantastic. I'm literally googling that immediately after this. It's almost part eye mask part pillar. You've sold it to me. I'm gonna get you one okay thanks I'm gonna get you one for your birthday whatever that is like fucking September but go for it yeah absolutely fine okay and yeah we just like we check our diaries and it'll be really busy and I'll go don't worry honestly next month is really really chill is really chill and she's like you say it every single month yeah I think it also just takes me by surprise because I feel like I'm not every month I'm like it's all gonna stop now like I'm I've always got that fear of not me too I get that where do you think that comes from I don't know actually because it's not I mean because you literally couldn't be nailing it anymore if you tried in like all areas yeah it's so hard isn't it to like know that yeah isn't that the weirdest thing yeah you can you could be like on every television show and doing a stand-up tour which is the dream of yours yet still you're going like oh no what if maybe this tour is like smaller than my last tour so that means I'm like oh it's all falling apart I don't I don't know like I would love to like I need to have therapy I think at some point just so someone can like figure me out and go like oh you know that's why because of this and because this happened in your childhood that you know but I haven't figured out that stuff yet no it's not like growing up that we would have everything taken away from us at any point that it would give me that insecurity.

43:26I think, you know, you don't even need to pathologise it, perhaps, because I think this industry does breed a certain amount of, like, comparison and fear that you're going to lose your job, because that's how the industry sort of works, I think. I've definitely experienced that, where you're pitted against other people quite openly, and you don't get the job or whatever, and then, so you're always feeling like you're slightly on the back foot. And maybe also just, you know, the notion of, even if you look at how comedy works, say, like you said, with the inception of YouTube and now social media, you can constantly you go oh well they look like they're doing better than me or more than me and we're all in that kind of loop of comparing ourselves like all and we've got to shift more than we used to right we've got constantly like change and reinvent and into into places that we have no idea about like i don't i don't know what i'm doing i don't know what i'm doing a lot of the time whereas before i was like go to a gig go to it again the more you gigged the better you get at it it was so simple that was it and then the more you gigged the better you became as a comedian the more TV you would get on that was it that was simple and now it's like you have to be an incredible editor to be able to put stuff on you'd have to know like how does socials work and it changes every fucking month and the algorithm changes we're not doing that it's carousels now you're like what the fuck is a carousel oh god it's relentless it's so relentless and there's so many different parts of your brain that's taken up by all this stuff and I love to be busy but I hate it when my brain is like busy with all this like fucking shit.

44:57It's like all these different and I don't, but I never wanted to sound like I was this old fuddy duddy dude. You're 40 now, mate. I sound like I'm like, what is this new up? I can't deal with another one. Like, you know, 16 year olds, like just, yeah, just do it. Oh, I know. Even my 12 year old is just like, how do you not know anything? Like, what is wrong with you? I don't. Look, we are. We're over 40. I'm over 40. You've just tipped over the edge, mate. So it's all downhill. Oh, my God. It's really not. I feel like we could be having this conversation at a care home. We could be. Well, we probably will be one day.

45:34We will. In a showbiz care home somewhere. Oh, my God. I can't wait for that. Meet you and Ben Shepard. Do you remember that time when I met Kylie Minogue? It's all very tragic. But, I mean, you are juggling a hell of a lot. As you well know, in our house, we are obsessed with Masking Up. We absolutely fucking cannot get enough of it. It's so good. Every series I am mentioned at some point, I think I was Mel, I can never say her surname. Mel Gidroich. Gidroich. I never know if it's a ch at the end or a ch. Yeah, I'll be honest, I said it pretty quick on the show. Yep. Breezed over that autocue moment.

46:07Oh my God, ladies and gentlemen, it's Mel Gidroich! Just in fear of getting it wrong. But it's either me or David Tennant every time. And my kids look at me like, could it be? I mean, no. but this is why you should do it i'm too scared i'm absolutely scared of like what's the fear that you have you fear the actual niche fear the niche fear is the bit where they've guessed who you are and you've got to sing with the head off what's my face doing when i'm singing yeah that's that is that is the hardest thing that's so awkward because also what makes me laugh so much about that like is that the costume you're when the heads come off it's just a it just looks Looks like an outfit.

46:47So like, this is my favorite one. Stephen Hendry was on the show. Yeah. Snooker player. And he was rubbish. Like he was the character rubbish. So he was literally in a green bin. And it was like all a really fun cartoon head in a green bin. And then when he had his head taken off, just like Stephen Hendry in a bin. Just like Stephen Hendry put himself up in for the recycling. But I think singing is so profoundly awkward. Obviously for singers, and I've interviewed a fair few in my time, they would find talking into a microphone excruciatingly embarrassing. They'd say, how do you do it? How do you do a talk to people?

47:25That to me feels like I'm just talking. The singing, like how do you hold the microphone? What expression are you pulling? I would just look mad. It is mad. And you've got to embrace the madness because you're going to be in a bin. Yeah. So like you just got to embrace it. Also, this might help you. This is a bit of a look behind the curtain. Yes. But when you do that final reveal and the final song when you sing, we've got rid of loads of the audience for NDA purposes. Oh, that's interesting. So we clear out the most of the audience. So they don't know either when they watch it on the telly. Exactly.

48:05That's clever. And then so it keeps the secrets alive. I love that. And they, so you. Because you genuinely don't know who they are, do you? I have no idea. No idea, no. And it's so much better that way because I really play along. And I just, it's also in the fun of it. It's the most fun show ever. As soon as I, if someone on the street just goes, tell me who Traffic Code is, Joe. Yeah, I don't know, mate. I go, if I was to go like Salah Jones, he'd be like, oh, all right. Yeah, you've ruined it for me now. I've ruined his day. Why did you tell me? I don't know. It's so fun. I just appreciate it so much more than I used to.

48:39I used to just get I got this job and I was like oh this is cool I've got this job people started watching I was like oh great and then now that I understand what it means now that people come up to me and say like my 16 year old comes down from their bedroom is the only show they'll watch with us uh like we watch it with our four-year-old my granny and we sit there in the lounge together it's the only show that does that and that that means so much and I'm suddenly I'm now going and doing that show I feel like this is so special and because I've got that fear of it all falling apart any moment now for the first time in my life and I've never been good at this I'm really trying to take in every moment and go like fucking hell man this is mad what's happening like I'm doing a show that people watch and that is so rare nowadays I know like just doing a show that people like and they watch together and it's a family event and uh I don't think I appreciated how rare it was and I think it's only seven series in now that I'm like going well this is a really cool special thing that I'm a part of and making it isn't isn't horrible yeah like there's also people who are on shows that are really big that making it is a real hard thing to do because everyone really hates being involved and there's a real diva at the top or something yeah yeah whereas this is great we all we all love it man it's so good and you're so right i think with my kids who are nine and twelve you know they're predominantly watching youtube and i'm a classic sort of parent of that age group who's like oh can't you just watch normal telly like that's the version of maybe our parents going why aren't you reading a book or whatever but when we have those moments where I know we all love watching The Masked Singer.

50:26We all love watching Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. We're all together on the sofa and it is such a moment and we're all sort of shouting at the TV and it is such, it's a beautiful thing. So I love that actually when you're doing it, you have those little moments of this is really bloody cool. Because I think, you know, I was doing a talk yesterday and someone said to me, what does success mean to you? And I never quite know what I'm going to say or what that even means to me on any given day but I do think success for me now means those moments where you know I could be sat here interviewing you or interviewing I had Mel Robbins on last week and I'll get a little moment in the interview where my brain is quiet enough to go this is really cool like you're just sat here having this moment having this chat with someone that's really interesting and I think before I'd be like Like get to the end of the episode.

51:16So you feel the relief, get to the end, know that it went okay. And then you can go home and you can breathe and you can. And I was just all about getting to the end to feel the relief. Whereas actually I think a successful day now is where I've been present enough in it to go, oh, I enjoyed that bit. It might not be all of it, but like just little moments that feels like you've got a bit more autonomy over it. But also you've got that gratitude that I think naturally comes with enjoying your day. It's like that simple. Yeah. It's so true. And it's like the NTAs when the breaks happen. And you're stood there because when you're doing the show, you're doing the show.

51:55You're concentrating. You're reading. You're doing whatever. And then a break happens. And everyone else is really enjoying themselves. Hugging, catching up, drinking, getting drunk, having a great time. You've also got the audience, like 15 ,000 people who are just like milling about having a lovely time. And I'm the only one stood on. I'm just stood on stage, just stood there, just like watching all of these people mill about. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, this is mad that I'm, quote unquote, in control of this. You know, like this is this is my gig. Like it's mad. And like, again, in the stand up show, if I was playing the O2, which I would never be able to sell enough tickets to do so.

52:38I wouldn't have enough time to take that in because I would be doing the show. But it's so nice to be able to have those rests where I can just go like mad. Hey, I'm pretty sure that O2 is in your future, P.S. Come on, Joe. Of course it is.

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54:25Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

54:32Hey, we haven't talked about the marathon, which was a big moment of this year for you. I mean, you are insanely fit. you set again your goals really high you were trying to go what sub three hours this year trying yep yep which is a professional athlete not quite but it is like it's a thing that everyone aims for sub three is like a thing that like it's i was really wanting to do it before i was 40 that was like the big thing i've basically been working up for the last year and a half it just for lots of people unfortunately the marathon in london this year was not that day it was a really hot day it was quite stifling the heat and it's so it's just really frustrating and I just I mean it's funny tonight it's really funny but I just I was on course to do it I did a 310 in Amsterdam in the October before so I was like okay and I really trained for it my training runs went well I was like this is going to be okay and then suddenly the heat hit on that day but everyone was like we're going to do it still go for it it's going to be fine about 15k i was like this this is feeling too hard like this is should be a breeze at 15 got to the half i was like oh god i'd remember 25k it's 42k in a marathon and 25 i was like again this shouldn't feel this hard i do not remember from 25k to 30k because i woke up in an ambulance of their 30k and i've got these awful flashes of what i think is the worst part of my personality that came out at this time what honestly so i don't remember any of it and i have a flash of me being dragged by two marathon employees to the ambulance and uh me shouting at what is people who watching the marathon.

56:23I'm just going like, someone record this. This needs to be documented. Someone record this. Quite angrily, really. Which people did. Which some people did. And then I got to the ambulance and I was saying to the ambulance, incredible St. John's ambulance people, I was like, has anyone got Gabby Logan's number? Why are you trying to call Gabby? She needs to know what's happening. This needs to be on television. Oh, because she's hosting it, right? Yeah. So I'm like thinking that like Gabby Logan gives a shit about the fact I'm in an ambulance. Like I think I'm more important than the 50 ,000 people who are running.

57:07Like it's the worst side of me that's ever come out. And God forbid it never comes out again. I'm a horrific human. We've all got a shadow side. Yes. We've all got it. I thought I was a nice guy. Everyone, you are a nice guy. I'm a piece of shit inside. we've all got that side it'll just manifest in different ways we've all got it I was doing my first Radio 2 show that Saturday the Saturday after the marathon and again I remember just saying to the St. John's Ambulance people at least I've got something to talk about on Radio 2 they're like trying to give me an IV drip and trying to get my thing down all I'm thinking about is work I'm such a fucking psychopath I'm an absolute psychopath oh it's so good it's so good I mean you poor bugger because I know how much that means to you doing that sub three and how you know you set a goal you want to bloody do it you want to achieve it this is something that I wish I was better at in my career because I find it so easy to set fitness goals and be like I want to do that I want to do a sub three I want to I want to run this this fast I want to be able to lift this weight that's this heavy I'm so good at that because it It feels so palpable.

58:16It feels so gettable. Yeah. I'm so bad at setting career goals. It does not seem that way. I need to be better. I feel very lucky in the way that it's sort of all worked out to plan. But I wished I was better at going like, oh, in five years time, I want to be doing this, this, this. And this is the perfect thing. Because I know how important that is because then it sets you on the right journey. I think a part of why I sometimes feel like it's all going to fall apart is because there's no structure in place. Do you know what I mean? I do, but I will counter it by saying, because my own life experience of that is probably the absolute opposite.

58:58Because I used to, when I was TV presenting, think from a very young age, all I want to do is be as big as Ant and Dec. Like there was no greater goal. Or Zoe Ball, whoever my heroes were and still are. I just want to be as big as them. So here's the route. I have to do all the meetings. These shows are going to work. There was always an easy decision for questions put to me. It was like, is that going to aid me getting to that point? Yes or no. And if it is, I'll do it. But then everything kind of fucking imploded and went wrong anyway. And now I've ended up going on this tangent that I am enjoying a million times more.

59:31That feels like I'm challenged so much more. Has taught me more than anything. and I didn't know I was going to do this. I had absolutely no clue. So I think it's no bad thing to have a very flexible approach to, yeah, you want to do well. Yeah, you can still be ambitious. But I think having a set goal, I think it can be detrimental sometimes. Yeah. I would say, just to flip it on its head. No, I think that's really nice to hear. Because who knows, you could get offered something that isn't in your great plan that you've got to end up playing the O2 or whatever it is. That's what I find hard because it's like any time I feel like I should do something like that and plan my life like other people do.

1:00:10Something then comes in that I've never would have ever dreamed of. Yeah. How exciting. Yeah, it's exciting. It's petrifying all at once. It's great. Of course, it's scary and exciting, but it's brilliant. Going back to Samarathon, what do you think you learned from that experience? Because I'm imagining in that situation where you're lying in the ambulance, you could be really pissed off, frustrated, feel a sense of injustice because you've done all the training. Or do you still find the humour in it i definitely find the humor in it again it's something that that's brilliant about being a stand-up because if something fails then it's a story so it's like all fuel for your next your next endeavor like it's a failure is a is a plus in a way yeah and that's so that's great i like i at least you've got a story out of it and the story is better now in reality than if i just did it yeah did sub three like done there's no story good stuff guys you're really fit literally got my child to come to the finish line wearing a t-shirt that says sub three and i did it in six hours so embarrassing so embarrassing that t-shirt needs to be in a frame it's like i mean it's up three days to be fair i wasn't specific in the time frame but it's it's so mad i would i like set it all up because the t-shirt is so extra it's so it because like i know the way i work and the way that my brain works during these long runs and stuff is that i needed to give myself something to be accountable for so if i told everyone i'm going for some three hours i'm gonna fucking do it whether you like it or not come on but as if i was silent about it i would be like well you know halfway through i'll be like i haven't told anyone so let's just do 305 that's fine whereas if I had that goal I'm thinking at the end my child's wearing a t-shirt

1:02:02I've made clothing I've made merch for a thing I haven't even achieved yet you've got a like snappy snaps website like on the t-shirt it's awful so awful the whole thing is it's so it's yeah I don't know why I fill my life with these things and I don't actually know what my next sort of goal is going to be but I know that you need to have a challenge you're that sort of definitely because i i've realized that the last month when i haven't had like a goal i was like i'm just gonna give myself a small rest and i just feel just a bit like i'm missing something in my life yeah were you quite forgiving of yourself in that moment you know obviously it's not your fault it's bloody hot and you've done all the prep whatever but it's so easy when you don't meet a goal to beat yourself up but then then the thing that that was brilliant that came out of the whole thing is that I could have quite easily have given up in that moment and gone like oh I haven't got my target I then was lying down in the ambulance for so long that my legs wouldn't move so I couldn't stand up and I was like I think I want to finish it and they were like no and I said I think I really would love to finish it so I had to stay in the ambulance longer for my vitals to come back to life then i i they helped me sort of stand up and my legs literally wouldn't bend because you've gone from running really fast to lying down for an hour and a half and then i um it took me about half an hour three quarters an hour to do one revolution of the ambulance because i kept on falling over i was like sort of like forrest gump polio or whatever and some reference and then uh i was like i said i'm just gonna get on and do it start really slow and i think over time my legs will now i'm not falling over i'll be able to do it and slow to have a lot of snow it takes and then your legs warm up and then you get faster and faster and faster and faster and i think i ended up doing it like 6 15 or something like that after spending like two and a half hours that's amazing to get your brain back into the idea of shit i've still got so many miles to go but that was actually a real gift because the fact i could could finish it in the first thing and the fact i really got to enjoy it that second half was so enjoyable because the first half you're just like i gotta reach this target i gotta run fast i gotta keep with this flag with this pacer you know and then the second half i just got like to see that there was loads of people cheering and loads they had the time to be able to see your name on your shirt and say go on you can do this like it was a real joy where you you come out of it going oh my god isn't london special and isn't london great like if i ran that whole thing in three hours i would have finished that marathon and gone aren't i great whereas instead i came out the end of that marathon i went fuck isn't london great isn't like fitness great isn't like community fantastic the fact that we all get together isn't my wife fantastic the fact that she was there like helping me and making sure my son was okay and napping and it's all good and I had the time to think about those things so I think when your things go wrong it's it's like it's better than if things go right it's the same with stand-up it's like when something goes wrong when you have a bad gig you learn so much you go oh that bit's wrong that bit needs a stronger ending that needs to work when you have a good gig you don't write any notes because you're like i'm great yeah and you don't learn anything from that and so you learn so much more about yourself and from just having things just falter and go go badly also i think your whole marathon run is like a really lovely analogy for life like when we rush through it and we're just thinking about the end goal and how it's going to benefit us we sort of miss everything but actually when you're not in a rush and you're slowly moving through the process, that's when you get to go, oh, wow, let's have a look around and see what's actually going on.

1:05:57And I think we're all in a rush to get to like this bit where we're going to feel okay. And it never comes. It will never come. It will never arrive. So actually, might as well just enjoy or at least look around and be present to whatever we're going through. Let's put it in a fitness term as well. It's a heart rate thing. So I found that in television when like in the marathon, the first half your heart rate is so high that your your body doesn't have the ability to think about anything else than like powering your body and it's really difficult like when your heart rate's much lower you can take so much more in you have the ability to think faster you have the ability you have more oxygen into your brain literally i remember i used to go the first sort of live tele i used to do i used to be so like excited and just get my energy so high and then I'd go up and I'd fuck up the autocue because I was reading so fast.

1:06:48And I was like, why am I so good in rehearsals? And then I'd get to the real thing and I'm awful. I could never work it out. It's because my heart rate was so high. That's the only difference, right, between the rehearsals and the annoying thing. So through understanding that, that was where I was like, okay, just the whole thing is about getting your heart rate as low as possible. Before you go out on stage, whether it's tour show, NTAs, masked singer, anything, you're so much better at your job when you're just like present yeah I think that's a really good tip for anyone listening to this you might have to do stand up in front of people and say something at work do a presentation or whatever is that heart rate thing is it's a bloody good bring your heart rate down with literally I used to I don't necessarily do it anymore but I used to literally wear a heart rate watch thing and look at what my heart rate was just found that interesting and then physically bring your shoulders down when your your shoulders are up and you physically bend bring your scapulas back on you and then just like uh just breathe and then take a breath go out do the thing just read before we wrap up i'd love to know where your happy place is oh it's i mean it's really changed a lot in the last couple of years my happy place 100 that was at home it's like with hannah and wild I suppose it would be in the morning where we because our jobs are a bit unorthodox often we're there in the mornings and not there in the evenings and so we just love having breakfast together and I just love making him laugh it feels so special and I love I love my family so much and I feel like really privileged to be able to spend time with them and to be able to see him grow up and be hopefully a better person than me.

1:08:46Oh, mate. Well, that is just the most adorable, adorable answer. And I'm so, so happy to see all the brilliant things that you're doing. It's just like a joy to watch you thrive and try all these new projects and do all these TV shows that bring us lots of laughter and lots of fun. So thank you so much, Joel. And it's a pleasure to be on this show. I genuinely love it. And you've taught me a lot in the way of it doesn't have to be the same way as everyone else in order to get satisfaction and enjoyment out of life. And you can just take a like a complete left turn and do something to please yourself.

1:09:23And it can all turn out for the way for the better. You don't have to follow upstream all the time. Yeah. Thanks, mate. That means a lot. Thank you, Joel. Thanks for having me. oh Joel you bloody legend do you know what I love chats like that which managed to sort of meander through very funny terrain to really thoughtful poignant moments it was just sort of like a lovely episode one that I will think about a lot especially that heart rate stuff you know I struggle still now with the thought of doing a live tv show something that I used to do literally sleepwalk into and do with my eyes closed, my heart goes bananas and I feel like I've got no control over it.

1:10:05So I think I'm going to go and let all of that percolate somewhat because it was very interesting to hear how Joel deals with those sorts of nerves. Joel's Happy Idiot Tour has been extended into the autumn before closing at the very prestigious London Palladium in April 2026. I'm definitely going to go. You'll have a riot of a time, so get your tickets to see him. And keep an eye on your podcast feed during the week, by the way, because there's a really cool episode coming up. Spoiler, you might cry a little bit. I did. But you'll also laugh a lot too. In the meantime, a massive thanks again to Joel, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you, you lovely lot.

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