John Newman: Ego, inner children, and bin men

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that asks how we can gently nudge ourselves towards more contentment each day. Today, I'm chatting to John Newman. I was so depressed and so angry and I had a mixture of ego, like bullied kid syndrome. I had all these things coming through at once that wanted to show that I had this and do this and nail it. And it just felt like in a dream where you're reaching for someone who's slipping further away. And I just completely took it out on the people around me. I became so angry at the whole situation that relationships that had been going on a while just couldn't function anymore.

0:40I think I'm back at somewhere that's pleasing me as a kid and a child. John grew up on a council estate in Northern England, DJing on Borrowed Gear. He went on to become one of the country's biggest artists. Feel the Love, a collaboration with Rudimental, went straight to number one in 2012. His own debut single, Love Me Again, went to number one a year later. And in 2014, he teamed up with Calvin Harris on Blame, which broke the world record for the most streamed song in one day. Now, after a lot of soul searching, John's carved a path back to his roots, curating hybrid sets that combine his signature live vocals with DJing.

1:24I loved getting to chat to John about what's brought him full circle back to where he started. and we talked a lot about the idea of pleasing and serving our inner child. We should be asking them what we want to do because they understand our joy best. I also really appreciated John's honesty in this chat. He calls fame a drug and it was one that was particularly potent for him. There's also some great insight in here into how those horrible salacious headlines work. I think you're going to really enjoy this chat. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving.

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4:01Okay, let's do it. Here's the show.

4:26John Newman, how lovely to see you. It's very nice to see you. It's been a while, hasn't it, actually? It has, yeah. I've been hiding a bit as well, which I like. I love hiding. It's a great vibe. Hiding's so good. I also want to start by saying, I think you've got the ultimate podcast voice. Everyone's going to be listening to this going, oh yeah, keep talking, John. Like a warm brew. It's like a warm brew. It's like a warm hug. It's just a great voice. Oh, that's really nice. It is, though. You've got a lovely voice to listen to. So, look, since I last saw you in the flesh, a whole lot has changed for you.

5:00And it seems like there's this kind of wonderful reinvention, but not in a contrived way. Yeah. In a way where you're sort of unravelling a bit, peeling back the layers and going back to perhaps a version of yourself before you got famous, would you say? Yeah. There's this amazing story about Amy Winehouse, my tour manager my old tour manager used to tour manager and then they were doing a video in camden and he said that amy i was having a bad hair day so they they ran down to one of the fancy jet shops and she was just like get me one of them beehive things and chucked it on and that was amy winehouse captured in however long it took for them to get to the shop and back and for me that's quite a painful story almost because I'm like why and I feel the same way that I was captured within six months of my life and I think it's something that like totally builds up like we we take inspiration from so many different areas but the world is kind of naive sometimes and like we don't like change we like to capture something that's fresh and new and then use this template to continue in our heads something that's so simple and I think that happened with me it was just a small time of my life that was captured and I tried to move and move and move and it just wasn't possible in the in the frame that I'd set up around me once love me again was that everyone was just like do that again do that again do that again and I was like but it's so unique you can't do that like and yeah so it's just felt like the time came I mean it's a way bigger story than that but the time just came to like crunch time for me that change needed to happen and I think there was a quite a large gap in between that change happening but moral of the story is and to answer your question yeah I think I'm back at somewhere that's pleasing me as a kid and a child and that's super difficult and I'm sure we'll get into it but like actually pleasing that kid is a really valuable thing that's bringing me happiness every day and not just happiness in the way of oh there's so much to talk about but like that's why it feels super weird doing a podcast because I've learned so much about this whole thing but I like to call fame and stardom and everything that I've been through, a drug.

7:30And I think you're like the drug dealer and you get built up the drug by many, many people. And you've got to be really careful because you kind of give that drug out to family members and uncles and aunties that go in the local pub and get free pints because they're full of the drug and feeling great from it. But it feels super nice to not be feeling that now and being aware of what that is. And this is a real joy, a real happiness that pleasing that kid is feeling it in the real light and not in this murky kind of red carpet champagne, getting fed full of the drug kind of way. Yeah, well, you get told what should make you feel happy.

8:11We all get told that, whether we're in this industry or not, that certain things will make us feel great. And it doesn't add up a lot of the time. And you might reach that goal or become a very successful musician and you're still going, yeah, but there's something missing. I still don't feel it. So when you were the John Newman, which I know is you, but when you were the version of you with the quiff, with the stripe in the hair, with the suits on, singing with your soulful voice, what was missing? Or did you feel trapped? What was the feeling you were experiencing at that time? I mean, life is about, I've done a lot of therapy recently and for a bit, but I generally feel like life is about capturing the moment at the time, living in the presence and enjoying that.

8:56So to be honest, it was great. And that takes so much for me to say. And I think it would take so much for anyone that has had number ones consistently, that has been invited to every party, that's driven around in chauffeur cars, that's been on private jets and lived the life completely. That's really difficult to turn around and say that was a great moment because you want it to be now. and you're like, I want that to be now, but I've grown so much that I'm like, I don't want that again. I actually don't want that. I want to feel joyful and happy in success of music and things like that. So I can't remember what you asked me.

9:39My questions are irrelevant, John, remember that. No, they're not. Your answers are the bit that we need. But it's so interesting because, yes, you know, you can look back and say that was a super exciting time and it felt surreal or whatever was going on in your head. But you can also sense that it's ephemeral. It doesn't necessarily stick around. And so what you're trying to tap into now is something that feels a bit more real maybe or you're more in control of it? I think it felt real at the time and that was the issue is that when that first burst happened, it was completely real. I remember my first A &R coming into my tiny little studio in Crouch End where I was living and he said to me are we pop or are we cool and I said we're cool pop and he said that doesn't exist that we can't do that I don't know what that is and it generally did feel that way like that's what I was trying to achieve I was listening to a lot of Motown I was listening to a lot of 90s rave I remember first doing Annie Max like session and we did Strike You Sure Do as a cover so it was that total crossover my brief was always if I write a dance tune what does it sound like if the motel musicians play it so it was kind of like that brief so I was like generally invested and it was a build-up of childhood influences I like to call it a bucket of influence that build before every project and it felt so full and tipped it out on the floor and it was beautiful and I really, really loved it.

11:07I thought I was uber proud of what I was doing. It was new, it was exciting. Everyone was spending loads of budget on me, which is great. Nothing better than a bit of retail therapy in the music industry, getting the best musicians and all that. No, but I generally loved it and the second record was the same. Even more retail therapy. Got Michael Jackson's musicians and everything on it, but the tunes weren't good enough and I know that deep in my heart, so that's fine. But it's all learning, isn't it? It's all looking back and nothing's ever perfect. We can always look back and want to do things differently.

11:42So now you're moving back to what you loved as a kid, which is being behind decks, DJing, producing music. Is it easy to leave behind what you'd already built? I know you're not leaving it behind entirely. You've built a beautiful platform. So you're able to now move into new areas and instantly, successfully. so you've already headlined Tomorrowland which is one of the biggest the biggest dance festival in the world but is it hard to sort of leave behind that era of your life to start again maybe a year ago yeah like now I'm like no like I'm good the hardest bit that is that does it is the bin man or the the person in the town that you're living near that reminds you of that song or that time that's the hardest bit because you want them to look it's like on your bad days on my bad days I want them to sing the new track like I want to feel that feeling like I did the first time but yeah I think the key for me now is to create something that's new fresh and exciting and I am totally going the hard way around this like this is the stupidest thing ever actually why i just think it is like i spoke like my brother right i called him and i was having a like there's so many challenges in doing this like to be honest coming here i feel a little bit embarrassed talking to you like i get that thing because i'm like i feel like i'm not being oh it's just such a weird like juxtaposition where i like feel like i'm not being true to the John or the people of what they wanted originally are what the people that supported him and gave me success it feels a bit like I'm doing something totally different and it might feel a little disrespectful but no I think it goes back to what you said initially about how we don't like change we like and again it's it's not just for people in the public eye where people make assumptions about who you are or what they think they know of you we like everybody to sort of say the same And when people, it could be as simple as someone deciding to put new boundaries down in a dynamic.

13:51People don't like it. Like, wait, you've always said yes. Why are you saying no? You know, we don't, we find it really hard to recalibrate and see someone in a different light. So I think I can totally see what you're saying. I've certainly been through it myself in ways. And I will still have, it will be, you know, someone that I meet in a coffee shop or whatever who goes, oh, I haven't seen you on TV for years. It's because I don't do it. Yeah. But what I'm doing now feels, and I have to sort of go, bye-bye, ego. Please leave the room. There's no place for you here, ego, because I know what I'm doing feels better and truer.

14:25But people will probably still have an idea that what I did before was shinier or whatever, whatever their perception of it is. So I totally hear what you're saying. You get it a lot from people that know you a lot as well, because it reminds them of when they had the greatest name drop of all time. And it's well annoying. And they could get in the club. yeah not with me but with you yeah yeah well so what is your new what is this new phase giving you how are you pleasing little young john newman the kid how are you pleasing him yeah it feels a little bit like a therapy session now where it's quite blah but i'm sure it'll settle down um yeah what i was just saying is like i think the easiest way to explain it is the transition between where I was and where I am.

15:15And I think, so basically, like, second record, went and recorded it in LA and put all my work into it, all my hard effort. But like the standard format, without delivering the greatest thing you've ever delivered or my head being in a mess, like, the reality is I got too egotistical. I started thinking I was way too cool and didn't perform the best I could in a studio. I've got a pop mind and I didn't write pop hits what did I expect? that's fine, I still loved what I made but just maybe don't predict it to be commercial if that's the case so then it went on and on and on and on and then the music industry changed and it was like single, single, singles and I just didn't feel right and I didn't feel good and I have to apologise to anybody that they affected but I was so depressed and so angry and couldn't handle.

16:13I had a mixture of ego, like bullied kid syndrome. I had all these things coming through at once that wanted to show that I had this and do this and nail it. And it just felt like in a dream where you're reaching for someone who's slipping further away. And I just completely took it out on the people around me. I became so angry at the whole situation that relationships that had been going on a while just couldn't function anymore. So I felt like the cleanest and healthiest thing to do was to be honest and say, I'm in a really dark place and I need to stop. So I did. And for the end of it, it was when COVID hit.

16:55I think when I talk about the ego side of it and the party inside of it and everything that was going on, I realised that that guy was just running away from... And like I was 22, 23, 24, like my bullied years and my troublesome upbringing was still so close without realising and realised I was just running away from that, running away from all issues, going to the next town, going to the next place, keeping myself busy. couldn't even sit in my own body without shaking and worrying and actually when I decided I'm done and got rid of my label got rid of my managers and just sat at home of like within minutes dark thoughts start coming in straight away and that was the hardest bit of this I think it's like there's a lot of mental stuff in there it's not just like as artists and creatives it's such a thin line between creativeness and inside my brain and I think I just broke down in a really bad way and let it in and like grief let it in and yeah it was pretty worrying.

18:12I had attractive thoughts of last days and things like that that started becoming more regular and really started to struggle and decided that they weren't attractive thoughts and it was quite serious and I needed to just even pull back the layers more and more to the point where my only ambition on every day was to get in cold water and go for a walk and do a bit of DIY. And that was a painful time because it was these two conflicts of personalities, is this person that was defining himself as a person and then this character that still existed. But luckily it was COVID, so that character could just stay out of it for a bit.

18:58It was like ground zero time. It's about a year later when I... This is like the darkest line in the story, but when I started laughing again and smiling properly. It was that gut crazy. But I think that's extremely courageous in the moment to have made a choice to strip everything back and move towards that pain. Because actually what you could do is just keep piling on the work, keep making more albums, keep the quiff in the hair and keep on singing like you're singing and just keep busy. And I think we've all done that in varying degrees in different circumstances, but it takes a lot to go, I think I've got to get everything out of the picture and just feel it.

19:46Like, that is terrifying. I also think it came to celebrity time for me. Like, they started calling the TV shows. Okay, so you're John Newman that we used to know as this. Do you want to eat a kangaroo bollock? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Do you want to dress up like a fucking mouse on primetime TV? All the offers that came, all of them came in. Nothing wrong with them, just not right for you. No. I hear you. Well, yeah, I was like, nah, I'm not a celebrity. I'm actually an awful celebrity. Like, I'm the worst celebrity, to be honest. It's the cringiest word ever. Yeah, really struggle with it. You're a creative, you're an artist, you want to make art.

20:32True, and celebrities struggle to go to a pub as well. And I love going to the pub. I love, like, just walking my dog in a jacket covered in paint. and actually when I submerge myself and somebody goes, John Newman, in the middle of it, I'm like, oh no, I feel so exposed. So I just didn't want to do that. I had a taste of it. I tried things like put Keith Lemon in a rally car and drove around and tried breaking my own celebrity world and I was like, can't do this. So when you realised you were going to potentially be more intuitive and move towards cold water, that might work. I like doing DIY.

21:15I like DJing. Maybe that could become part of what I'm doing and who I am. At what point did you notice this is working? I am actually climbing out of this dark hole that I'm in now. Yeah, like I said, there was days came in where I started smiling again and laughing again. And it's simple things like in my relationship with my wife, not deflecting and running away like a child. like the child that used to go and hide in a shed or these things, like wasn't there anymore and started to feel me again. And it wasn't until then that I, when I started feeling better, I was like, I missed something.

21:54I just missed something. Like, what do I miss? And it was just being creative. So creativity to me comes in many different formats. I just love designing things, whether that's a song or a piece of clothing or whatever it is. I just like being creative. That's why I'm not very good at the celebrity side of it. I like to be fully submerged in something creative in that way. And just opened up my laptop and I think I made like a 15-minute complete instrumental progressive dance song and then started playing it around my house. I was like, this is great. Love this. No vocals on it. So this is great.

22:34But I started building up the idea and that's when it came in. I started feeling like, oh, wow, I started to feel like that kid again, like in a really good way. Like I've put that side of my life aside for a minute, letting it let go of the hold on me. And just like was a really magical, amazing time, just sat in a bedroom again making instrumental dance tracks. I was like, as I do, started dreaming of how do I take it to Wembley or whatever it is and started bringing in manifestation that I do. a lot and done throughout my life on, well, I need to perform it live. I used to be a DJ. I could still DJ.

23:12So that's when that came in. And I wanted to change my name. I wanted to come up with a name like The Weeknd. Something totally different. The Monday. Yeah. The Monday. The bank holiday. The bank holiday Mondays. That's a good name. I'm having that. Did you know The Weeknd's stopping being called The Weeknd? What? Maybe he's looking for names. We could get in there. We could give that to him. The bank holiday Monday. Oh, that is so good. It'd be so good. If he just changed now from like the Monday. The bank holiday Monday. Because I'm moving on the Tuesday. That's so good. And then I contacted my lawyer.

23:52I was like, I feel ready. I feel like I need a manager again. And then found new managers. and obviously they were straight away like, nah, John Newman works, John Newman works, we can do something different with that. That was a painful conversation because I was like, no, don't tell me what to do, kind of for the first time in two years or something. And then, yeah, just started the journey again and did the Whitney remake and Getter took that on, David Getter and that did well and that was amazing and it was kind of toes back in the water. And to be honest, it's like still a slow building process, still early days for it, but I financially continue.

24:43I live somewhere that I love. I've just had a child. I've got my wife and the most important thing is that I'm really happy as me. I can see it in your face when you're talking about this stuff and your creativity and the life that you've built you can see it in your face and it's it's so interesting because i think for so many of us we need to go back to who we were or what we liked before so often there's that cliche question of what would you tell your younger self and i always go no i want her to tell me yeah what to do because she knew way better i'm an adult that's gone through all of these things and built up all these ridiculous ideas that probably don't actually even stand up.

25:28I want to go back to that. What did I like doing? For me, it was drawing, painting, simple, simple stuff. But if I do it, I still feel that joy and elation. And I think as adults, we don't give ourselves permission to go back there and go, oh, no, that's who I am. That's what I like. And it doesn't mean we have to become childlike or we have to totally embody that person because obviously we want to grow, we want to learn. But the joy that we had was much more readily available usually. I know that you obviously had some hardship going on in your childhood, but the joy you could cultivate with something that you really loved.

26:03Would you have come to that conclusion without therapy? I think I did. But only in its very early stages of not quite understanding what I'd managed to curb, if you know what I mean. I think it, like, because it was so severe, it felt like I literally had, like, some crazy tornado and hurricane just behind me at all times, ready to take me. So once I'd managed to get rid of that, just by finding me, yeah, like I instantly felt better. But then I did start to learn. I can only explain it as that then it was still continuous. Like this sphere of negative energy was still triggered by small little points.

26:46So many people were reliant on me financially, actually. And then when, because I'd gone with a good heart to try and look after everybody, that when, and then with my success and all these things, and then when I kept, like, we all went under great financial pressure and COVID. It just was like too much for me. I couldn't handle it. And it was just like, that would trigger it or this would trigger it. And I put it into this sphere of negative energy. but what I had done is managed to on good days sit myself away from it but all it took was one little trigger to get rid of it but I'd managed to separate I wasn't blended anymore and that side of me that wasn't blended anymore was the one that said let's talk to a therapist and now I can safely say that I can feel that like I can stand on the top of a mountain and feel the wind hitting me in the cold rain but it feels re-energizing and amazing that I can handle that and I think that's what I've managed to do I've turned them into individual points that I can deal with on a daily basis that don't ignite this fear of energy of negative energy and I think that is the greatest thing and one of the greatest achievements alongside having a child that I've done I'm so proud of myself I'm so so proud of myself it was like I didn't know which where I couldn't even see a door to leave through I had no idea what was the next steps in my life and now I'm just in a position where as long as I do what I love that's great I still have days where it's so frustrating like where I'm like yeah but I'm starting to realize that's just I'm a perfectionist and I'm like highly creative I'm fully focused on what I want to achieve I use manifestation which can sometimes be amazing but sometimes can be a burden because you're like well I can see it and it's super simple so why don't I get that so I'd still have days where I'm frustrated but as you can see there that's in within my job and how I operate my job and not everything I am not my job anymore my job is my job and I'm John and also you've got the awareness I think it's always the key to any type of change is seeing your own behavioral patterns we can all be totally blind to them and just go is that person's full or this just happens to me all the time but actually to go I know how I work I know what my triggers are is so so helpful and I'm sure again there's something that you were sort of discovering during therapy during that time of discovery and having therapy did you pinpoint where that pain was coming from why you were moving into areas of depression, why at times you felt suicidal?

29:38Was it childhood? Was it fame? Was it a bit of both? Did you locate it? I think fame, the early start of fame, was childhood. Like, I think a lot of us get famous when we're children. Like, everyone's like, no, I was 21 when I got famous. I'm like, yeah, you're a child. Like, we were just the older side of being children. I think there's this whole 16, 18 thing, but I think we go until 24, 25. I mean, I didn't feel anything different until I was 30. Yeah, no, I sometimes still think, am I 18? I know, you're in your 40s, babe. Yeah, totally. Go home. It's awful. It's 6am. No, those days are gone.

30:18Yeah, they went for me as well. I was like, they've got to go immediately. Gone, gone, gone. Yeah, but I think, yeah, I believe that actually we're completely shaped as children and I think that's why we still feel like kids in our heads because that was when we were shaped and now we're just trying to micro-adjust almost, but our format is made. I think growing up, I grew up in a pretty small town in the heart of Yorkshire and my dad left when I was four years old, which became a very turbulent relationship where we don't understand mummy and daddy are Peter and Jackie at the time. We think that's mummy and daddy.

31:05And daddy's the worst man on the planet because he's left us. And yeah, my dad was, he struggled. And now before I thought he was acting in a way that was completely irresponsible and upset me in so many ways. but then learned that I've been through a lot. Maybe he was going through a lot as well and that's okay. Later I actually built up a relationship with my dad after all this as well. He recently passed away but amazing I think that I got that time with him. Don't know, still question that. But yeah, so we grew up in the middle of Yorkshire. I was quite different to everyone else. At eight years old I wanted a welder because I wanted to turn a wheelbarrow into a go-kart that I could fly down a hill.

31:56I love that. I got the welder, I did that actually. Still got the picture of that go-kart in my house now. So I spent a lot of time hiding in a shed and I think I was escaping a lot of things. When my dad left, my mum had to take up a lot more work. So I spent a lot of time by myself, but that's fine. And to that, so instantly, like if we relate my childhood to now I completely feel individual I do like to spend a lot of time alone now um luckily my wife does as well in that way and we both have a good understanding of that yeah I think it completely came in I when feeling different I just think that kids in a little town got completely bored I was slightly different and then the issues came that's easy and then I start going through stages of like was I the best I could be was I the kindest I could be did I influence these things but I think I'm gonna head down a wormhole if I start thinking about that but if you think about that I felt so unwanted constantly the girl that I loved was too embarrassed to be with me that my best friends was so easy to turn on me because if other people were there they didn't want to be embarrassed to hang around with me and I think that really really really hurt me after the rejection of my dad and the rejection of everyone around me and me trying to do my art people rejected that because it was different I actually started to feel a bit like a burden in life and I think I moved to Leeds to study music thankfully and uh felt wanted like properly wanted by like I know that like I don't want my mum to listen to this and feel like it was on her part whatsoever I felt completely loved and wanted by her it was just the normal surroundings I just didn't and moved to Leeds and finally felt like weird is cool and like felt cool but then got thrown into stardom and if we think about my up not upbringing that's the wrong word I don't again I don't want to upset anyone close to me about an upbringing But like my childhood that felt might have been turbulent and unwanted, then I think to then be thrown into stardom is...

34:15Where you're really wanted by everyone. Full of the greatest drug. It's like the limitless pill. It's like straight in you. Yeah. It's a big jump. Amazing feeling. It's a big jump. And it's, I think when you're, especially in the music industry, which I've been on the edges of for years and years, and you see the insane furore around new artists and the attention and just the chaos, it's absolute chaos. And it looks exciting. From the outside you're going, wow, that looks super exciting and euphoric. But not all of it's real, very little of it's real. There'll be a few people perhaps on your team or that you've bonded with that really care about you.

34:56But all those people cheering for you or shouting at you, that's not a real transaction of friendship or anything that's necessarily going to buoy you as a human and keep you feeling boosted so it's that's intoxicating to experience that being so wanted having felt extremely unwanted completely marvelous amazing dangerously marvelous yeah that's the pain of it is that one day you've missed I forgot how to pay bills and everything it got that to the point where when it all comes back down to reality you're like I don't even know how to pay my bills I've missed years of my life in this mad dream like complete mad dream but at the time you're like this is amazing I'm welcome literally Literally.

35:56You just think you're so cool. I watched this video of me. I went to LA for two years to make my second record. And I watched this behind the scenes of me making this Cumberland Get It thing. And I'm sat there with a cigarette in my mouth and sunglasses on. I literally thought I was Alex Turner. I love that you wore the shades inside. That's such a tick. I thought I was so cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I was pretty cool. But I thought I was way cooler. I mean, I watch me now and I'm like, shut up, mate. I think that's just age gets us to that point of going, yeah. Yeah, totally. The market's uncertain.

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38:37Knowing how much childhood informs who you become, I mean, it's wonderful knowledge to have. And again, it's utterly terrifying as a parent. I worry about it every day as a parent. Have I made the right decision? Am I doing the right thing? You know, every bit of the day I worry about that with my kids and how they're growing up. Do you, having had a turbulent childhood, worry now you're a parent, look at your every move as to how that's going to affect your... You have a son, isn't it? A daughter. A daughter, sorry. A daughter. Yes, very much so. But it's hard. Like, we are pre-mapped and I have to look at often to the same gender so my dad is unfortunately my father in that way like and like not in a way that unfortunately my father it turned out we had a I've never had a closer connection to anyone in my life but uh I have to remind myself that that was fathering to me and it didn't exist so that's not what this child needs I need to be there but it's so hard like it's I can feel it in my blood and in my veins that on a daily basis it's like not run but like like it's just that prioritizing thing is super hard to balance and I think I know inside myself that as a kid I wanted that so I think that really helps I think because it was kind of so severe that my dad had left and seen him with another woman and starting a new life I think it was like that was so severe in my head that now at least it it kind of is that severe it's not just like dad's there but never see him he's always at the pub and always gone I think I was only four as well so I didn't get too much of that parenting put on me almost in that way so it it kind of feels like a new thing to like I've started looking at other dads almost being like how do they father how do they balance how do they do that when i say like don't know how to prioritize i just think that's completely natural that's a new parenting thing it's not i'm not and i think it's absolutely crazy being a parent yeah it's like it's wild and i think you get this thing when you're like go to before becoming a parent you'd like go and chat with some friends meet them or whatever and they'd be like oh god it's so much and you'd be like, shut up, shut up.

41:17And now you're like, I get it. It's really hard. Hello. And it's really tiring. You still want to talk about it. I know, it's absolutely mad. It's bonkers. So you've also been, we've talked about mental health and you've had not only periods of depression, anxiety as well that you've been incredibly open and honest about, which I think is incredibly helpful. You've also had health challenges that you've been very open about. And I'm pretty sure that we've talked about it, maybe on the radio before, about having brain tumours. How do you think that's affected your perspective on life? Do you think that has given you moments where you're able to just zoom out and see life's bigger picture?

41:58Yeah, unfortunately as well, I think one thing that we didn't mention in my childhood was death. And I think I lost two of my really close friends in a car accident when they were 16, lost all my grandma, granddad, my favourite auntie went like they were just dropping like flies so I think that's a concept that I'm and then when you go into the idea of at 21 just before I have like my biggest breakthrough I get a brain tumour well more technical wording around it but yeah it it becomes quite odd at a young age to realise that we live and then we die and I think that's fine actually like so then we should live and we should live to the best of our abilities and we should live all the time and I really hope that since realizing many things that people feel touched to be around me that they feel blessed and and that my life has given something to everyone else's so I think you do learn that um but I think I was young I first got diagnosed so it happened basically i was uh getting ready for the the big hurrah and uh like i was living so if people don't know i lived in uh crouch end worked in a pub there i was giving one of the locals free beers got busted and got kicked out so i had to make a decision and i decided to go on the dole and go and live with peers from rudimental and we'd made feel the love basically within this kind of communal thing and not giving in.

43:38And we just... Absolute bangers. Absolute bangers, yeah. Oh, my God. And we didn't know what we'd made at all. Like, we just wrote, like, not giving in was about my mate trying to jump off a bridge. Feel the Love was just... Kezzy had just written this hook and we just did it. And it all just felt wonderful. Like, Piers was playing in my band. Magic. And we were just... I was just going around London doing small pub gigs. It felt amazing. And then it was Feel the Love that went around the music industry. and I basically got my record deal, minted. Like, not minted, but at the time felt pretty minted.

44:14So spanked it all. But there was one issue was that I thought I was going blind at this time and everything was getting well hazy in my eyes. I had full-on no peripheral vision. So I went to local Boots opticians, which I always find funny. I'm glad you do I'll nip to boots they'll sort it out little did I know they obviously freaked out very too much big for boots they were like you need to go to the eye hospital immediately I always remember my missus coming with me at the time and they gave me them what is it things where they basically blind you temporarily, anaesthetic in the eye oh right and I remember just walking around the Moorfields Eye Hospital, like just completely blind, like what is going on?

45:07This is mental. But then I remember them saying, okay, all looks okay. Worryingly, you need to go to the hospital of neuroscience. I was like, neuroscience, what's that? I was like, that sounds pretty cool. I realised it's the brain. I was like, oof. Anyway, I went through it, I sat there, was told I had a very large tumour that had been growing for many years, which actually explained the reason I couldn't grow a beard. Oh, really? Yeah, in my pituitary gland, which sits at the bottom of the brain. Should be the size of pee, was the size of golf ball and completely crushing my optic nerves. So my eyes are going like mental.

45:50Yeah, the full lot. So that was pretty like, pretty awful. to be honest but the the thing about it is that i was okay and that's actually kind of the most painful thing that i was okay what mentally yeah why do you think that was because it brings in that childhood thing that that's that wasn't important to me my importance was i was a calculated character in every way trying to succeed to prove everybody wrong and at the time I just I was just going through the greatest time of my life so I just didn't want it to stop me but it was my mum were worried about my brother and the people around me so I was just like I'm alright, I'm alright, I'm alright I think when it hit me I was a lead down on the bed and they were about to give me the anaesthetic and I just broke down in complete tears I remember and then my brother said that My brother said I was really upset and then I shot up and I went, oh, this shit's amazing and then collapsed down and that was me gone for seven hours.

46:59Woke up with two tampons up my nose in a right mess. But...

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48:44Yeah, heard my song play on the radio whilst I was laying in hospital bed was pretty crazy. How surreal, what a surreal time of your life. I weren't allowed to tell my record label. Wow. They couldn't know what was going on because they'd just given me a large sum of money and couldn't tell them I was in hospital bed. That was pretty crazy, like crazy. And I was like, let down, I remember there's this old guy called George from Guernsey. He'd fallen off a roof. It's like, yeah, George, that's me on radio there. and he's like, whatever. I was like, this is mental. It was so mental. You couldn't tell them.

49:17That's unbelievable. No, it was crazy. I had to just go radio silence. So obviously with that in mind, I was worried about dates coming up. Yeah, of course. New opportunities. And actually Radio Warm were doing their beefer thing. And me and the rudimental guys had been invited out to perform there. And I knew that was in three weeks after my surgery. So I sat, I think I did three days of being like pretty much paralyzed in a way. And then I was like, I need a cigarette. I need a shower, I need to get out of here. So first thing was go have a cigarette covered in wires. Thankfully don't smoke anymore.

49:52And then I was like, right, I'm going to go get in a shower, I think. And they're all just like, back in bed, back in bed. Every day. I mean, I used to wear the suit on a daily basis at that point. I was like fully in there. Yeah, you were in the zone. Yeah, and I was sat on my bag waiting every day for doctors to come. And they finally let me out after about six days. I remember getting on my bike when I got out, going down to Holloway Road to Argos for something. Just came straight off it, like badly. I was like, oh, no. This is just passed out again. So I think it was a bit early. So, yeah, three weeks or two weeks after, I can't remember what it was, I'm stood on stage in Ibiza.

50:30And then that was it. Pop start. Here we go. Mental. Wow. I mean, what a start to your music career. So mental. It was like one last little jig. It was like, it was crazy. but yeah. But then did you, but you, so that brain tumor was removed, but then it came back. So yeah, we spoke before about the whole like, um, temptation of celebrity vibes come calling. I like, um, hopefully after this podcast, you're like, yeah, John's obviously here to enjoy making music. He's a musician. He's not a celebrity. He's a musician and he's an artist. And I think I really am a studio rat in that way. And I think got to a point in my career where, people like the press department were getting more desperate than the A &Rs.

51:15And it was like, there was this whole thing going on where, basically, I released this track called Ole. Factually, Calvin had written it. And then somebody put out in the press that this song that he'd written that I was going to perform was about his breakup with Taylor Swift. Neither of them wanted to talk about it, completely understandably. so here he is the messenger and and the press department is pushing it i've just got the whole world's media wanting to know about calvin harris and taylor swiss relationship on me i was in like turmoil i was like i'm what am i doing i was like this is awful like this is exactly what i don't want i think it was like i must have done like 50 interviews just to keep everyone happy and not talking about it and then i remember being at the itunes festival and turning around and saying, she'd asked me like 10 questions.

52:10I was like, come on, this is brutal. Next minute, bam, all over the newspapers, John Newman labels Calvin Harris, Taylor Swift's relationship as brutal. So this is mental. And it was, I was doing a photo shoot and I remember someone, a girl from the sun came to talk to me. And I was so distracted by that whole thing going on. And then the, the annoyance in it. And like step, like Calvin's a friend of mine, like tiptoeing around the subject, trying not to say anything or whatever it was because I'd been so exposed. Oh, it was awful, awful. And then I basically just mentioned my brain tumour being back.

52:49And then because the Calvin and Taylor thing had died down and I wasn't saying much, the next wave of press went out that I've got cancer and I'm about to die of cancer and a brain tumour. And I was like, oh, my God, I was just being tested. you can understand now why it just like got in such an awful place in my head like the whole job and uh when i'm just trying to make music and um not like there's just a wave of complete nonsense actually that went out everywhere that is so weird everyone sending you messages saying sorry and everything when really the reality is is that yes I had a returning tumor benign tumor in my pituitary gland that was being very well monitored and absolutely tiny compared to the last one that nobody gave a shit about yeah and next minute I'm getting flowers and stuff sent to my house like I'm about to die.

53:52This is mental. So, yeah, like the truth in the honesty is is that you might go on Google now and search John Newman. It might say dead, cancer, all these words, which didn't help to me wanting to take a break because everyone thinks I'm either dead or got cancer somewhere. Oh, my God, that pressure. It's so mental. And then, yeah, basically the reality is that I'm just monitored on a yearly basis. I haven't had that same treatment removed yet. I will do by amazing people at the hospital. And I'll go through six weeks of radiotherapy. I have good discussions with my hospital and we'll work out when the time's right.

54:33But yeah, hopefully this doesn't become another press thing. I think they burned me out. I think I'm good. No, the good thing about podcasting is there's context and there's nuance. So people can listen to the whole chat and you're not going to take one little soundbite and make it a big thing. Listen to the whole chat. You'll hear your actual thoughts on things and your actual story, which is, I think, why I love podcasting, certainly, but why I think listeners like it because it's not some salacious headline or something that's been just plucked out of obscurity and you've been through people sending you flowers and not even actually checking in to go, what is going on here?

55:12Yeah, we can't change this. You have the space to say it and you have the space to tell the stories and it's really important. And I think actually your honesty about your health and the grounded approach that you have towards it is extremely encouraging and supportive of other people either going through it or family members going through it. To hear you talk about it in the way that you just have, I think, is really helpful. No, totally. And I think I've been part of the Brain Tumor Foundation since this and seen, you know, I'm definitely one of the lucky ones and very fortunate I'm one of the lucky ones.

55:46And we all go through things. And I think there's some great supportive people out there to talk to. And I think, yeah, I don't know. Like, I never want to put a negative thing on it. It is what it is. Some of us have to go through it. And that's just the end of it. That's annoying in the first place. Nobody should have to go through that in the first place. So that's kind of where it lies with me. I don't want to go any further on that. I think that's my own personal experience, but I can't speak for anyone else or do anything else. If people find that positive, that's really good. I think they definitely will.

56:21I mean, I have loved talking to you. We've covered so much and I knew it would be real talk. I knew it wasn't going to be floating around the edges of things. But I really appreciate your honesty and your storytelling. And it's just, it's so good to see that you're in such a happy place. I was actually about to say that for real without realising. but it is so good to see you lighting up talking about where you're at in life and your new projects and I wish you all the best with it Thank you so much and I've very much enjoyed it it feels like we've been through this whole crazy ride and then ended at the end but I think the most important thing is that yeah I really am happy and definitely happy after this conversation it feels really good as well Thanks John Thank you John, it's so good to have you back and to hear that you're doing what you love just best.

57:17Thanks so much for your time. John's latest smash hit single is called Call Your Name and honestly, it sounds like he's only just getting started so I can't wait to hear what comes out of the studio next. You can see what epic live performances he puts out soon. All right, back next week, but in the meantime, if anything about that chat particularly touched you, then do get involved on Instagram, at happyplaceofficial. I love reading your thoughts and your stories. Until next time, a massive thanks again to John, to the producers of this episode, Sophie King and Anushka Tate at Rethink Cordio, and to you, because you're ace.

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