Jon Bon Jovi: Legacies, excellence, and rock’n’roll clichés

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and this is the show that wonders what it means to leave a legacy you're proud of. Today, I'm chatting to Jon Bon Jovi. I'm not trying to compete with Taylor Swift and Beyonce and their successes of that younger generation. But I also don't want to compromise the 40 years of us either. So the legacy matters. I have to go out there and be the best version of me or I won't do it again. So that's where I'll show you. It's really saying it to myself. I'll show me that I can do this again. Or else I won't because I can't. but it won't be because I didn't try.

0:39The legacy matters. I'm not going out there and being the fat Elvis. It's just never going to happen. It's been 40 years, 40, since the band Bon Jovi released their first album. Since then, John's sold 130 million records and has been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But he's also had some serious vocal problems. He had surgery, in fact, that could have signalled the end of his music career. Now, any of us who've enthusiastically attempted It's My Life or living on a prayer during a bit of kitchen karaoke will know that these are demanding songs. That key change in living on a prayer?

1:21Oh, my God. There's no way I'm hitting those notes. So thank heavens John's making a great recovery and is now back with his new album, Forever. While we were wandering to the studio, we were talking about the phenomenon that is the Rolling Stones because I just got back from New Jersey, where John is from, where I watched the Rolling Stones play at the Met Life Stadium, which was incredibly cool. And it just so happens that John is not only a massive fan of the Rolling Stones, but also sees them as a bit of a bar, a benchmark as to how long you can keep going because the Stones are definitely still going.

1:56And it was so cool to talk to John about what leaving an enduring legacy means to him. and actually how to know when to call it quits. Oh, this is a good one. Enjoy! Hi, this is Nox from the Popcast with Nox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zinn is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zinn nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zinn nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams.

2:35Check out zen.com slash find to find zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tight and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts, just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today.

3:17Okay, to my chat with Bon Jovi in just a second. But while I've got you, I want to ask you a quick question. Have you got your tickets for the Happy Place Festival yet? I'd love to see you there. we're so bloody excited to be bringing you another incredible lineup of guest speakers and immersive workshops and lovely food and shopping and loads more the chiswick house festival is less than four oh my god less than four weeks away what so listen the quicker you get your tickets the quicker i will see you there saturday the 13th of july it's almost sold out lisa snowden's going to be there paul brunson's going to be there rianne and lambert will be doing talks on nutrition.

3:56Denise Van Alten will be upset if you miss her DJ set. Then on Sunday the 14th there are talks from Gabby Bernstein, actual Gabby Bernstein, huge international superstar. Roxina Fousey, live music from the Overtones and oh my gosh I can't wait to do a podcast live in front of an audience with Jason Donovan. Get your tickets now, just head to our website happyplaceofficial.co.uk. All right let's do it, here's the show.

4:44John, it is very, very lovely to see you. And you, my dear. So I don't know if you remember, the last time I saw you was 15 years ago. Someone reminded me. Unbelievable. I know a blink of an eye in 15 years' lives. It is. It's terrifying. And also, I was looking on YouTube and it was 2009 and I thought, well, it was like five years ago. No, 15. I know. 15. Wowzers. It's a lot. It is. It's a lot of life. I'm really happy to talk to you today. We've got a lot to talk about. Congrats on the album. Thank you. It's got some absolute bangers on there. Legendary, living proof. But you've got these beautiful songs too, like Kiss the Bride for your daughter who's about to get married.

5:25Right. As a matter of fact, right today is her birthday. Oh, happy birthday. So my baby, yeah. And Steph is getting married and two of my boys just got married. And I'm getting a discount on tuxedos. It's like goofy. But that's a lovely stage of parenting now. You've got like a whole new chapter ahead of you. Yeah, it's an extension of your family, you know, and you're welcoming these other people into your innermost circle, you know, which is pretty cool. Really nice. I also love the song Hollow Man. Yes. Really poignant lyrics in there. The song starts by saying, what do you sing when the song's been sung?

6:00What, I can't read my bloody writing. What do you fight when the war is won? Who do you fight when the war is won? What do you write when the book is done? Have you reached periods of your life where you felt like you've done it all? And what's next? Well, it's not a question of what's next, because if I wanted to have done anything else in my life, I've tried it. Even the things that have failed, I've tried that I was interested in. And other things that were my passions that I did until I didn't want to do them any longer. So this is what I want to do. But with this album and that lyric and that song, I am at a place in my career where you're a vessel.

6:44and you're living a life and you're writing a chapter. And in this case, Hollow Man was like me saying to God, fill me up, give me the information I need at this place in my life. What is it that I want to discuss? And so that was the vehicle. And it's a songwriting trick too. When I can't put my finger on what it is I want thematically, I will basically write down, I don't know what I want to say. So what do you sing when your song's been sung? I'm asking myself a question. Who do you fight when the war is won? I think I've gone to war and back again a couple of times. You know, what do you write when your book is done?

7:22And I've lived 40 years of this. So now, then I went, oh, there you go. I'm off to the races. Yeah. And there's a song. It's a great song. Do you approach that question or that moment in life with gratitude that you've done so much or sorrow? No, no, no, no, no, no sorrow. Absolutely not sorrow. This is the decade of deep gratitude. Yeah. You know, with every decade of life, I've come to realize that there are different chapters. You know, at 20, your focus is on the next foot in front of the next foot. You know, it's one step at a time. And all the excitement of new life changes in your 30s. In my case, at least, you know, you get married.

8:08You have your first babies. At 40, you start thinking about, am I doing what I set out to do? At 50, you start thinking about a legacy. At 60, the legacy is pretty much etched. And now, you know, how do I sum up the trip? You know, so every decade brought me a different part of the journey. I mean, it was overwhelming research in this chat because your career is so long spanning. And in your brilliant documentary that I loved watching, Thank You, Good Night, you're looking through this insane archive of vhs tapes and cassettes listening back to songs you'd forgotten about demos you hadn't heard before performances that are long forgotten how what did that bring up for you how did that impact you going over all of that well watching the a rough cut which is the last time that any of it well any time i've seen it which is eight nine months ago i didn't see the finished cut nor nor do i really care i lived it i know it i you know and I wasn't hands-on in the process but we the band watched it together and and it was emotional because we'd lived a lot of life in these first 40 years you know as we're talking off mic about the Rolling Stones I mean they're 60 years on which is unfathomable to me but not a lot of bands have a a top shelf life of 40 years and still going with current you know big hit records so you know you look back and you go wow that's a lot of life experience i mean it is remarkable that your band the stones have this long lasting effect you can just keep going and it's not just rattling out the same songs you're releasing new albums the stones are releasing new albums they released a great new album i love their last time love angry is just love love love but you're doing the same thing and it takes a hell of a lot and if we go right back to the start I mean, there have obviously been several iterations of Bon Jovi, but you're in New Jersey.

10:03You're a covers band right at the very start. You're in this thriving music scene. Bruce Springsteen has kind of put New Jersey on the map and there's a buzz, this real energy about it. But of course, there are going to be loads of bands in that environment who want to do well, who want to be sat here today still making music. Obviously, you've got the vocal talent and you've got this amazing onstage charisma and songwriting ability. but potentially the thing that has set you apart that has enabled you to still be doing it today is this determination. And you can see it in the documentary. You just keep going.

10:38A problem arises, you're on to the next thing. You just keep going, you just keep going. Where does that determination come from? You've obviously turned up on planet Earth with it. Perhaps. Maybe we're a byproduct of where we were born, when we were born. because your parents are going to instill some kind of work ethic. And no matter who your parents are, you're going to learn from them, good or bad. But in my case, I think that that helped. I was never the best singer, the best guitar player, the best songwriter, but I was the hardest working. I was the hustler. And so I put this band together and got the record deal on my own and then got each of them convinced to join me.

11:27And then I made it a band. And then everybody's contributions are what got me here today. Past and present members, everybody's contributions were a part of it, an important part of it. And now when you look back after, you know, 40 years, it's with gratitude because everybody, you know, was a contributing factor. And I know it's going to sound cliche at this point, but I truly have looked to the Rolling Stones because of their, the Brian Jones era, then the Mick Taylor era, and then the Ronnie era. But Mick kept going and Keith kept going and then they had a big spat and then they got back together.

12:03And then they, you know, I mean, they have been the bar for me about what a rock band is meant to be about. Yeah. You know, and the hard work that it takes and the relationships and how they, you know, get through that. It's really been a huge inspiration to me to watch them. Yeah. And I don't know them personally to sit in a room and talk like, oh, how? Because that is a lesson I've been begging for for these 40 years. And I can't seem to get close enough to Mick Jagger to actually like to sit him down and say, please, you know, tutor me. But it's a fascinating study of just how, you know, to keep it together.

12:48I guess watching how you've gone about your business, watching what the Stones do, you know, and looking at the individuals in the band, there is this energy that won't stop, a momentum that won't stop, that is perhaps just part of your personality. Like if you look at Ronnie, and we've discussed earlier that he's my husband's father, he cannot sit still. Even if you said you never have to do anything again, you can just chill out, he wouldn't be able to. And I think you perhaps have to have that relentless energy that you've got to keep creating. That must be a part of it for you, that without that level of creation, having ideas, seeing them come into fruition, you would feel a bit lost without it or down?

13:32I don't know that I'd feel lost or down, but I certainly get incredible joy from the creative aspect of it. You know, I do know certain guys in our business that are journeymen. And those journeymen need the applause and they need that attention all the time. Me, me, me, me, me, because they don't have anything else in their lives. And I have found that I have many other things in my life. So this is in essence what I do, not necessarily who I am. I just happen to be good at it. And I love it. So I'm not demeaning it at all. But my home life, my philanthropic life, my other businesses with my son now, there's other things I get to do.

14:17Nothing brings me greater joy than writing a song. True. But packing up a suitcase and going to Idaho, not high on the list. it's still gotta be done I've never done that but you know not really high on the list I mean you say in the documentary that now your main motivator is to feel that joy to feel that lovely joy whether you're on stage you're writing a song what was it back in the day what was driving you it was joyful yeah but there was oh my goodness let me put it into perspective I mean on on Slippery When Wet which is our third album oh that album we hit the big button, right? You know, we win.

15:00And I could have enjoyed it more, but what was in the back of my mind was, oh my God, how do we do this again? So now, you know, I had to be more focused than anyone else, because even though if Richie was second and then David, Tico, and Alec were below that because they didn't have to create the song, it was going to be me pulling it along right so a year later we're on the road with New Jersey another 240 show tour that was in essence too much even at a young age to be doing two 240 show tours back to back so it was like running on a treadmill and then you know someone pulled the plug they didn't slow it down they just pulled the plug and you went tumbling off of it burnout happens yeah so i wish i'd enjoyed it more and and yet you know you learn those things you learn those things i mean you said the hard work back in the day nearly killed you all it could have a couple of times but the um that's also what set the bar for us and why we're still here and doing and and outlived you know the grunge movement which killed my peers and And, you know, after 2000, when they said, oh, you're getting a little older and we come back and do Crush.

16:21So that hard work also paid off. And also, I guess the other thread that I could see through the documentary is you've got this I'll show them attitude. And that really peaked whenever you met with a hurdle. If it was the grunge movement coming in or a band member leaving, it was I'll show them. Do you still have that in you that I'll show them? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not trying to compete with Taylor Swift and Beyonce and their successes of that younger generation. But I also don't want to compromise the 40 years of us either. So the legacy matters. You know, you got to go out there. I have to go out there and be the best version of me or I won't do it again.

17:02So that's where I'll show you. And it's really saying it to myself. You know, I'll show me that I can do this again. Or else I won't because I can't. but it won't be because I didn't try. So, yeah, I totally understand that because I think I constantly want to prove to myself that I'm capable of more or better or whatever it might be. Yeah. But were you thinking that back in the day or were there specific people you needed to prove to? That's probably a deeper lay down on the couch, talk to the shrink question. Who were you trying to impress? Was it your mommy and daddy? Was it, you know, was it authority?

17:40Who was it? And I'm sure that if I were to lay down on the shrink's couch, we could get into that because, yeah, obviously there was going to be somebody in your life that you had to prove it to, you know, and that we all carry that baggage. Yeah, we do. I mean, this level of focus that you've got and have always had has actually stopped you from fulfilling a lot of rock star cliches like drug addiction and excessive drinking. And also you're still married to your wife of 40 years, which makes you the anomaly, really, in the kind of rock star world. There are others, but I'll gladly embrace them.

18:18Not many I can think of. Well, Bono is as long as me. Bruce is almost as long as that. And so there are many others. but I'll gladly accept the man. I'm okay. I mean, your career really kicked off in the 80s, which was a decade of total excess. How did you avoid the temptation? I didn't avoid it. I just, I knew how to maintain my life in the midst of it. And, you know, the excess of drug thing was never, didn't appeal to me. So I never had an issue with any of that. Just fortunately, the singer went home. Yeah. That is as simple as that. The singer went home. So I also knew I had to perform the next night.

19:04So even if I was out drinking, that was fine. But the rest of it held little interest. I mean, during that excessive time in the 80s, in the documentary you talk about, great, you and Richie outdoing each other with these gifts, like I'll buy you a Ferrari, I'll get you a Lambo, whatever it is. How did that impact you coming out of that era and then having kids and a family life, etc.? Having experienced that excess, do you lose gratitude? Does it wear out your dopamine trying to reach those highs the whole time? The gift buying thing was genuine because we were just so grateful for everything and enjoying the cliches of being able to do something like buying your parents a house.

19:51You know, you've heard every athlete that's done that over the course of time. Buying each other those silly gifts was cute and fun because we could, we did. But it wasn't even reaching for, oh, I got to do something bigger to be better. It was almost like a one-time thing. You know, after that, you got over it. And it's like, oh, you don't need to do that. And buying your first house and all those cliches was fun. You could, you know. So that was nice. but then it started to not mean anything it was like okay it's it's cool it's good and you're grateful but it wasn't about buying the house it was like is that house a home that's what mattered yeah yeah without a doubt obviously we've just talked about this but you managed to avoid you know drug addiction and excessive drinking but obviously band members didn't yeah and i'm sure that caused a lot of pain over the years, seeing people derail.

20:53See, that's my Mick Jagger question. Yeah. How did he manage it? How did he pull them back in? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either. Did it ever irritate you they weren't as focused as you? You know, substance abuse is real, right? and people do things for different reasons and and it's not something that you can just say snap out of it yeah you know without help or without deep dive into what it is that makes you do those kind of things and to to lose opportunities that you haven't you know you've won the prize you're in a one of the biggest rock bands in the world you know and you would give it up for that um It seems silly, but it's real disease.

21:44It's real people that need help. So I'm not damning anyone who didn't come out the other end. I feel bad for them. But these are choices that adults make. And I wasn't going to hinder myself because of that. I wasn't going to slow down because somebody else couldn't keep up. But it's not fair to anyone else, to the rest of the band, to the crew, to the fans, to the record company, to the promoter, to anybody. But I mean, this was like thinking on your feet stuff because Richie left in the middle of a tour. You had a gig that night and he didn't get on the plane, didn't make it to the gig. And you had to quickly fill a hole and work out on, you know, on the day how it was going to work.

22:30And also the sad thing is you didn't know that the gig prior to that was his last show. Did not. there was no goodbye absolutely not oh no no no there was no there was no fight there was no nothing we were we couldn't have been in a better place we were on a week break the album was going to come in the charts at number one on the tuesday hey i want to stay home one more day sure of course you know you fly up from la i'll be flying from new york the rest of the band are going up on their own you know see in calgary and then to get there and then okay you've done this before hoping that tomorrow would be there and then there was no tomorrow and there was no tomorrow and he wouldn't go to rehab and you're like you gotta go back to rehab i ain't going to rehab well great you know so we plugged on and you know i had to do 80 more shows with a fill-in wondering when is he going to come back that was a lot of stress that was not easy did you grieve that loss?

23:28It took a long time to grieve that loss and it was emotionally really taxing on all of us. Yeah, because you've lost not only this creative partner, someone you've got this beautiful rapport with on stage, but also a brother, a friend. Absolutely true. Yeah, that's rough. Sucked. And also you can't grieve it in the moment because you've got 80 shows to do. 80 more shows to do. You've got to crack on. Yeah, yeah. At what point do you think it hit you? A year or two later, maybe even three, hence this grey hair. I'm loving the grey hair. Well, I'm not going to hide it. It was after that that I just went, fuck.

24:02I just got to deal with this. But yeah, in and of the moment, we still had 80 more shows to do. And it was the biggest tour of the year that year, the biggest grossing tour of the year. So talk about, holy shit, we got to do this. And the next year, I couldn't even look at the guitar. I couldn't even think about the guitar. I couldn't sing. I wouldn't care to. So the grieving started then. And so by 16, when you're writing This House Is Not For Sale, it becomes a statement record. And then Phil X, the temporary Phil, and we're telling him, okay, well, you're going to make a record with us. And from there, he's been there ever since.

24:47Yeah, and it's been working beautifully. It works fine. He's a wonderful guy.

24:54The market's uncertain. revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using upwork to keep work moving go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast no bulky overhead no rigid long-term contracts just the right expert right when you need them work smarter and faster with upwork go to upwork.com now and find your freelance expert that's upwork.com Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about.

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26:01There's a song on the new album called Waves, which is all about letting go of the past and being able to move on. Have you always easily been able to do that? You know, I don't like change. I'll take progress, but I don't like change. but you know the the memory that's the the visual of the song it waves that they'll pull you in and you know pull you out and then take you down eventually if you're holding on to these memories so long and you can't bring it back you can't bring back yesterday so you're holding on to something that's ultimately detrimental to your health you got to learn to let go and um and so that's what that song's about and that's kind of where i'm at yeah i mean it's a tricky thing to do isn't it do you think you have to fully process something to be able to let go of it even if you process it or you're doing it you know alone it doesn't mean that the answers are right you know it's better to get somebody to talk to about it yes and and then internally talking with the band about it and stuff like that so um it's been a process and um you know every day is a part of that challenge.

27:10And then my health issues compounded everything. So this surgery, which I never expected in my life, has been a process too. It's two years since the surgery. And I'm not ready to book shows yet. Yeah. So this was your vocal cords were thinning. So you had an operation to tighten them up. That's right. It's called a medialization. They put a plastic implant outside of the cords to push them together so they close properly. And, I mean, that's a tiny bit of your body, but it's a gnarly operation to recover from. You've got to learn to speak again, and then you've got to learn to sing again. What's that been like?

27:51It's a process. Yeah. You know, every day is a part of the process. And then there's progress. So that's the good news. I'm making definite progress, even from earlier this year or from the recording of the record. I know if I'd sung the record again today, because that's seven, eight months ago, I would sing it better, you know. And so I know that when we rehearse, because we do get together and rehearse monthly to mark my progress, it's leaps and bounds. But until I can do two and a half hours running around four nights a week, I'm not going. So that's where I'm at. I'm well on the road to recovery.

28:30I'm just not quite there yet. Yeah, I mean, again, in the documentary, there's moments where you, I mean, it's painful, like you're gutted to not be able to sing as well as you want to. That must have been mentally a lot to get over. Horrible. Yeah. It's been a very stressful time, but then you have to put things in perspective. I don't have a, I'm not dying of cancer. You know, I'm not dying. I'm in great health. So this is baby stuff. You know, get over yourself. You'll be fine. So this is not life ending This is something that With a lot of hard work I got a shot So there's no pity party But also you are Would you call yourself a perfectionist?

29:11Anyone wise enough knows There's no such thing as perfection But I definitely need excellence You demand that of yourself I demand excellence of myself Have you always been like that? Is that a trait you've had since childhood? Yeah I think if that's the New Jersey chip on your shoulder That's the knowing you weren't the best guy. You were just the hardest working. You know, I wasn't the best at anything. I was just the hardest working. And there's been times where you've asked for complete honesty from the people around you. And your wife has said to you after shows, that wasn't your greatest.

29:44And that's set you back somewhat, although been part of your process, part of your healing. In and of the moment, I said, that's the last show. I'm done. I retire. Because I'd done everything I could think of. Everything I could, Eastern medicines, lasers, acupuncture, voodoo, santeria. I've done it all. And I exhausted everything I knew how to do. And I thought I could beat my cords into submission by touring. Go out there and just work them back into shape. It wasn't the case. So when I finally went to this one surgeon, he explained to me why it could never be healed that way. And I put my faith in him because he promised me nothing And I loved him for that So I guarantee nothing And that was even better than having him lie to me He says, but if you work really hard I'll make you better than you are today And so it's been two years I was like, you didn't tell me it was going to be two years You promised me nothing But you did not give me a time frame So we're getting there Good, good But it's hard when it's your That's like one of your routes to joy you're singing.

30:54It is absolutely, truly was, is, but the legacy matters. I'm not going out there and being the fat Elvis. It's just never going to happen. Yeah, yeah. So if you get to that moment where you have to question, is this the end? And really contemplate whether you do it again. What does that feel like? Well, you don't know because I'm not there. No. You know, I've had to give all of this a lot of thought. Think about any athlete we've ever watched growing up. eventually they have to leave the pitch. It's the last time they're going to be out there in front of the people doing it. It's the last time that quarterback throws a touchdown.

31:28Then they must go into a place of mourning. I don't have to do that because I'm making progress and I'm in the process. I've just made a new record. It seems like it's a big hit record. All that good news. And because I'm daily making progress, I haven't had to have a realization that it's over. And I don't think it is over. but I refuse to think that I could win the game and be half of what I used to be. It's just, I don't need it. You want to end it on a high in excellence. I have to leave everybody, including me, knowing that it was excellence always in front of me. I mean, like you've already touched on in this chat, this is one part of your life.

32:09So yes, there would be mourning, but you've got so much other stuff going on in your home life, your family life, and also your... charitable work that you're doing. Talk to me about Soul Kitchen. I think this is such a lovely idea. And I love learning about what you're doing for the communities in New Jersey. Some 20 years ago, I started a foundation because I used to own a very small American football team. And I thought if we can be more philanthropic than the big boys, we can endear ourselves to the community. So it's a crazy way of thinking of things, but that was the truth. So that worked well.

32:43And I found focus in affordable housing because I didn't need a scientist to find a cure. You know, it's going to take money and sweat equity. Okay. So I meet the absolute queen of this in a nun in Philadelphia. She teaches me everything I've come to know about the issue. And then we start building houses. And in 2008, the economic downturn in America happened. And Dorothy, I said, we have to now feed the people that we've housed. And she conceptualized the soul kitchens. This is a model of something that didn't exist anywhere. And it was empowering people with their volunteerism that they earn a meal.

33:24It's not a soup kitchen. So you can't, in your mind, as I think it's institutional food on a plastic tray and government subsidies, none of that. It's farm to table in a beautiful cafe. If you come, you affect change directly by leaving a suggested donation that pays for your three course wonderful meal with you know silver wear and then tablecloths and blah blah blah but it also paid for somebody in the restaurant you'll never know who's there in need and who's able to pay because there's no prices on the menu if you come in and you volunteer you empowered yourself and you've earned that meal and volunteering is not you know eight hours it's 15 minutes to be honest you know it's no big deal and you would see a teenage kid come in we give him a certificate he brings back his whole family and feeds them right so that was the model and now subsequently we have four of them and the goal is to go out of business which is just not gonna happen because the need is there yeah and we've built a thousand units of affordable housing we have these four kitchens and you know it's it's making a little ripple that's a beautiful thing to do and you still live in new jersey yeah yeah Yeah, yeah.

34:36Because you, for a bit, went to California and were like, this is not for us. Well, I had a house there, and when we realized that that was not for us. No, no. But it's always interesting, isn't it? Because I think, you know, as a Brit, I grew up going, oh, my God, California. It's the place where dreams come true. And my cousin lived there, so I'd go and visit. But actually, there's something about being anchored to your roots, where you're from, and what it means to be. You can carry your roots with you. Yeah. But when you get sucked into showbiz in Hollywood, I found it to be a very shallow pool swimming.

35:10And most of those people certainly ended up divorced, if not dead. And it was just a real eye opener for us. We were like, oh, no, no, no, no, not for me. Yeah, no, I think it's lovely that you're giving back to your community. It's a really beautiful thing. um i've just got back from new york literally yesterday hence my slightly hazy state and my eyes feel like they're about a millimeter open at the moment but the thing that i always notice whenever i go to the states and come back here is the attitudinal difference there is this sort of it might feel like a cliche to us here but in the most beautiful way that success is celebrated people really encourage each other the american dream is the you know the thing that we've always heard about over here in the UK.

35:56You lived and breathed that growing up and having that success in the 80s. I don't think we've got that here. I don't think we've ever had that here. Like, you can dream big, blue sky thinking, what do you want to do with your life? I think, if anything, we, I don't know, some would call it realism. I think it's suppression at times. How do you see those cultural differences? How have you experienced the American dream? Is it what we believe it to be?

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38:02Fascinating that you bring that point up because I have heard that more in the last couple of months than I had in the 40 years of my coming here. And it is being brought up often by a wide array of people. Just a moment ago on a radio show, the other guests brought that up. people who are entertainers have brought that up to me. I didn't know that because I visit here, I perform here, I leave here, you know, but lately, whether or not you guys are noticing it more or I'm just of an age and I'm paying attention, I don't know. But that hurt my heart when I heard that. And I've heard it so often in the last couple of months in America, they said a kid looks at somebody who's successful and says, when I grow up, I want to be that.

38:54And here they would say that when I see that guy on the top of the mountain, I want to take him down. Wow. That hurt my heart when my friend told me that. So we were born into a time when John Kennedy was president of the United States and saying, we're going to go to the moon. And my parents believed it. And they said, you want to be a astronaut or a rock and roll star, little Johnny, go ahead. You know, And you were like, OK, you know, because we believed it to be true. And for a long time, that was the messaging for sure. Now, you know, I can complicate it today in 2024 and social media and inflation and but I do think at the end of the day, it's still alive.

39:36You just have to look harder for it in America, but it's still very much. I still think it's there. I do. I mean, as a Brit, you can almost feel it. It's a sort of energy that's there. I was in New York. It's obviously a very buzzy city. Yeah. But you do feel it. I mean, I was lucky that I grew up with parents that were quite relaxed about whatever I wanted to do and were encouraging and definitely said to me, you know, dream and then aim for what you want to do. But I think then you experience a new phase of it when there are outsiders involved, especially the press over here, who I think, again, have a completely different attitude to people that are doing well or successful or whatever it might be.

40:15In the States, I know that it exists, but here it's harsh. It is directly the relationship is watch or build somebody up and then knock them the fuck down till they are on their knees, like literally and in the most devastating ways. I don't think it's quite as bad in the States. I don't think it's like that. No, no. I mean, how do you deal with that? You know, I'll give you a great American example as of late. We know who Beckham is, but we didn't know the depths of David Beckham. And then watching that documentary, wow. Talk about tearing down a national hero and then building him back up again.

40:50And now he's like on every commercial and, you know, he's a national hero. But he lived to tell his tale, right? And you have to admire that. I don't think we really have that We'll give people a second chance With the whole Who's got caught With the housekeeper and had a kid It's like crazy Stuff like that So as long as you're not truly a bad guy We'll give you second chances In the States There's opportunity for redemption Anyhow I don't think it's as bad No I don't think it's as bad there I mean it is shit over here I'm sorry I mean, how do you navigate press, press intrusion, stories being written about you?

41:32Have you coped well over the years? Yeah, I've been pretty blessed. You know, a lot of what our music called for was optimism and inclusion. So that was kind of the fan base. And therefore, that would be the kind of people I'd run into on the street. You know, and I didn't have the guy that was upset because of your political viewpoint, you know. And so then my political viewpoints as I got older were deemed to be my private viewpoints. Now our world in America is incredibly divided and it's going to become who knows what. But we're walking straight into a fire and who knows what's going to happen in the next five months.

42:12But it's going to be a crazy telling time for the future of the world. And how we behave with each other is to be determined. Yeah, I know. That's the sort of scary thing and you hope that there's going to be some sort of unity at some point down the line, but it feels a long way off. It feels pretty tough. Yeah, it does. But that's the idea. It is the idea. So I haven't had to deal with that kind of stuff, fortunately. That's a good thing. Yeah. So you've got your album out. Everyone's loving it, talking about it, singing along on the radio. When do you make the call about if you tour or not?

42:50Not yet. Simple as that. Not yet. I think that I've come to the realization, like if I could do two or three, I can do 50. I've been afraid to do two or three, but I'm getting there. And is that fear because you don't want to go out and not be at your very, very best? Yeah. So we rehearse in private and I'll do like three hours in a row, you know, like beating us silly and then do it again the next day. It just marked the progress. And then to go and do, you know, a couple hours show in front of a crowd, I'm almost there. And I know that if I can just do two or three, then I know it'll work. But it's, you know, going out on the ice for the first time and wondering if you're going to fall through it.

43:38And what are you like at rest these days? Because like you said, back in the day, you worked so hard, it nearly killed you all. It doesn't seem like you're stopping anytime soon or... Yeah, but it's not my motivating factor in the morning. I don't wake up and go, you know, what's going on in the business of music or the charts or the concert touring? None of that moves me anymore. I don't care. So what is your out of work time? How do you keep still?

44:07Well, I'll find a little silly hobby. I learned to play tennis. I go for a run. I can keep busy reading a book or writing a song. so I don't need all that kind of stimulation and you know I'm not sitting on the couch No, clearly You know the foundation will keep us busy my son's wine business will keep me busy I can fill my day up Yeah and you don't need that high anymore of you know when you're playing in front of 60, 80 ,000 people I can't even imagine the high that gives you the euphoria the bars that you've got to then come down from do you still need that kick? No Not at all That was really never my motivation anyway I enjoyed it immensely And when you're firing on all cylinders And you're singing great It's glorious I mean what could be better than that But it's not What I dream about It's not that oh man I need the crowd I don't need the crowd I'm good at it But I don't need the crowd I want the crowd but I don't need it And was that, did you have a moment of realization with that?

45:16Did that come incrementally? I've always had it, to be honest with you. Really? Yeah, I've enjoyed it immensely. I'm good at it. I want to do it again and again. I'm excited if I could go out and sing this record for people, but I don't need it. If God said that's enough, I'd be like, cool. Got a lot of great pictures. You've got shitloads of great pictures. I've got great pictures. Does that give you mental peace knowing that? the way I look at it now it's like I have an opportunity to say not an obligation you know I really want to do it I really do I'm working at it every day but I don't have to do it what is the daily recovery now what are you practically having to do so there was a guy that worked in the doctor's office that was a vocal therapist and the doctor is now since retired so the guy works for me so I'm like we're going to work every day you're going to wish you were working with the doctor it would be easier but we work every day trying to get it back and then I've got 80 or so songs without lead vocals on a letter from shows and I plug my guitar and it's a microphone and it's loud and monitors in my music room and I put on a rock show at least four times a week Really?

46:34Oh yeah Wow No I'm not doing this like in the shower This is for real Yeah Because it's That's how I'm trying to rehab it And also I I can't think of this on the documentary Or I've watched so much Bon Jovi content this week I can't remember where I've seen it But you've got a notepad constantly full of new songs No No no no When I'm in the mode Like the faucet is on Okay And then you keep that notebook by the bed You know you keep it wherever you're going because something's going to come. I've gotten very comfortable with shutting the faucet off and not even thinking about it with the confidence that I know if I turn it back on again, it'll come.

47:14So you don't get writer's block? You don't have moments of not knowing? No, no, I don't. No, I don't. No. I may start, you know, when I turn the faucet on, the water's rusty. But eventually, you know, it flows and it's wonderful and, you know, it comes out. So no, I'm capable of shutting it off That's a good bit And at the end of an album like this I'm mentally drained I don't have any new information It would be a retread of these 12 songs So I need new information in the next couple of years And what do you do for that? Do you go out and seek for inspiration? Yeah, I've come to realise many years ago That every day is an opportunity To write a song if your eyes and ears are open you can either hear something on the radio that moves you or watch a movie or read a book or read a newspaper or you know whatever it is that's going around you gives you the opportunity to make a memory but whether or not you choose to sit down and focus that's a whole nother set of muscles yeah yeah and does that come easily to you being able to get that level i can get back to it pretty quick yeah yeah i can get back to it pretty quick so i'm not too i don't worry about it any longer no that's incredible it's nice knowing that you can switch in and out of it and that you've got that autonomy to go i'm having a break yeah then we're doing an album let's go yeah yeah the the the feeling comes over you that you think oh it's time i'm thinking of you know rhyme schemes or a title comes here and there and then when you're drained i don't panic at this point it's it's my 18th album i just kind of know how to do it you would hope so after 18 well it's so brilliant and I've loved listening to it and I bloody loved the documentary.

48:56It was just the best music documentary. I just, it was wonderful. I loved it, loved it, loved it. And I wish you all the love and luck and I hope your recovery keeps going so well and that you get out on the road at some point. I'll be there front row. Amen, baby. Thank you, John. Great to be here. John Bon Jovi. Oh my God, thank you so much. Okay, honest, honesty time. I was worried when I turned up to the studio for that one because I hadn't slept much. I had jet lag and I'm an anxious person, as you guys well know. And jet lag doesn't do well for me. I get this thing where I become really obsessed with time and I get really obsessed with looking at what the time is in the other country I've just been in.

49:39So when I landed in New York, all I could do was think about what time it was in the morning back home. And now I'm back here. I keep thinking about the fact that it's the middle of the night for me still. So I was sort of overthinking everything, feeling a bit scatty, but hopefully you enjoyed that and it went well. I enjoyed it, which is, I don't know, hopefully means something. But what an amazing person John is. Just an incredible musician, but also the focus and determination to be in a band that is still going this strong today. I don't think any of us can truly appreciate what that takes.

50:16What a guy. And oh my God, if you haven't watched that documentary yet. It's called Thank You Goodnight, The Bon Jovi Story, and it's on Disney, and it's bloody brilliant. I've told my husband he has to watch it. He's going to love it too. I tell you some other music icons we've had on the show recently. Anastasia, another person that just keeps on going, keeps on producing brilliant albums and playing live beautifully. Nora Jones, love Nora. Beverly Knight, you can scroll back in your feed to listen to those episodes any time you like. Alicia Keys, she's been on, I keep remembering more. Arby back here next week but in the meantime come and chat on instagram at happy place official i would love to see you there for now it's a massive thank you to john bon jovi to the producer and happy place studios and to you i love you

51:30Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

52:02Nicotine is an addictive chemical.