Kate Winslet: “The media called me fat!” Why I’m embracing wrinkles and championing women

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that moves you towards living life on your terms. Today, I'm chatting to Kate Winslet. The mainstream media in the UK, it's no secret, were absolutely horrific to me because they decided I was fat. Well, what do you think that does to a person's self-esteem? And that's why looking like a normal person, having a face that moves, having all of the wrinkles that my 50 years hopefully show, that matters a great deal because, again, you can't live your life trying to change the opinions of other people. It doesn't work. You'll make yourself miserable.

0:36Now, I cannot tell you how excited I was about this. And I mentioned this at the start of the chat. When I was 14 years old, me and one of my best mates, who's still one of my best mates today, Ali Bowers, became utterly obsessed with Titanic. And if you're about my age, you were probably the same. We had a cinema in the local town, Harrow, in a shopping centre called the St Anne Centre. Going to the St Anne Centre was the most fun thing ever. We'd get the train from Eastcote to Harrow, get like so many penny suites we felt sick by the end. And we would sit there watching Titanic. We did this four times.

1:13Four times! I don't know how we found the money to do it, but we cobbled together however much it was to go to the cinema back then and watched Titanic four times. Even when I'm watching it now, I can recite, I reckon, 50 % of the dialogue and also some facial expressions. Like I it's so ingrained in my brain. I know it better than some of my relatives. So that is the sense of excitement I'm talking about. And obviously I've followed Kate's career since. And obviously it's nearly Christmas and I have to watch the holiday. That for me is like it truly starts Christmas. And I bloody love that film.

1:48So obviously I had to get that out of my system before she walked in the room. Kate Winslet needs no introduction whatsoever. But what is very cool news is that she's made her directorial debut on the film Goodbye June. She's also in the film and produced it too. An insanely talented woman. The film sees four siblings thrown together because their mum, played by Helen Mirren, a.k.a. June, has cancer and is really not doing very well in hospital. But do you know what? It remains so hopeful. It's such a beautiful, warm, Christmassy film. And each of the siblings has their own thing going on, their own plot, their own complications, complex dynamics in the family system.

2:34It's just really, really beautiful. And after it, I mean, I watched it early October. I was like, right, get the mulled wine out. I'm ready to go. It will make you feel so Christmassy. I also can't believe I've never met Kate. And I say that with zero arrogance. I'm not like hanging around in A-list sets, guys. But I have been doing this job for years and years and I've done all the red carpets like the Oscars and what's the other one that's not the Oscars? It's like the Oscars, the SAGs, the SAGs. I've done all of that and I've never met her. So this was a moment for me, a huge moment. This was such a fun hour getting to know Kate.

3:08We chatted about all sorts, double standards for working men versus women. The grief of losing her own mum back in 2017 and feeling that sort of unnerving, vulnerable feeling that you have with grief. Also whilst making this film, which is along those lines of subject matter. We talk about co-parenting at Christmas, which is a big one for many of us approaching Christmas this year. We also chat about engaging with feedback, whether it's good or bad, is any of it necessary? also having deep difficult conversations with people that we're really close to. Kate's also got some brilliant recommendations for silly Christmas games if you need some new ideas.

3:51Okay to this gorgeous chat in a moment but first a massive thank you to The White Company for sponsoring this episode and in fact for making Christmas shopping so effortless for me. The White Company have always believed that life is a beautiful thing especially at Christmas. They make the season feel so special so we can enjoy all those gorgeous little moments from anticipation and preparation to celebrating and giving beautiful gifts. One of the things I love about Christmas is that everyone does it slightly differently. Every family and home has their own little Christmas traditions and rituals.

4:27I've got loads. I am a very visual person. I like to see lots of things in the home, comforting things, cosy things. And obviously Christmas is a time where I can really go for it. So obviously the tree is coming out mega early and it is adorned with so many little trinkets I've been collecting over the years. I like to just have decorations wherever I can fit them or wherever I can hang them off. They are quite literally wrapped up the banister, hanging off lampshades. They're all over the gaff and especially around the front door. Oh, yes, I'm one of those people. I like to make it feel as Christmassy as humanly possible.

5:03And then when it comes to actual Christmas lunch, I want to make that table look so pretty. I'm such a nerd. Even as a kid, when I was, I don't know, from as young as seven, I would get up really, really early, like before my parents go downstairs and do a whole tablescape for breakfast because I'm a massive nerd. And I love stuff like that. Also, self-care rituals are very important around this time because it is madness. There's so much to do. The list is never ending. there's so many people to look after and people to buy for and things that need to happen before we wrap everything up for Christmas it is wild and for me it is just tiny little moments of calm and that is reading a book with a nice scented candle on with low lighting that is my dream I've been browsing the white company's gorgeous products and they've got all sorts of amazing bits that will make Christmas that tiny bit more special can I point you in the direction of the pomegranate place card holders for your Christmas dinner table.

6:03They are adorable. Get your best fountain pen out to write little name cards for everyone. It's a very sweet detail. The mistletoe embroidered napkins are definitely going on my table too. Gorgeous and classy linen and cotton blend with these little mistletoe details. Heavenly. And there's also an amazing range of tableware that you can use all year round. And the double row cord napkins will look incredible on your festive table because they're embroidered with a deep ruby red colour. Then of course comes the delicious moment when you all get to collapse after a high energy day. Maybe stick on a festive film, cosy up on the sofa.

6:42If you still want to feel a little bit special for the season, I'd go for the silk cross back short pyjama set because it's got a gorgeous champagne sheen to it. And of course, you've got to keep those feet nice and warm with some luxury brushed cashmere bed socks. oh does it make your toes curl with cozy excitement just thinking about it it does mine so with over 30 years of christmas expertise the white company knows it's the thoughtful details that make the season special from cozy home comforts to elegant dining and the art of meaningful giving they make it easy to bring christmas together beautifully what you wear how you host and the calm comforting feeling of home as a proud b corp the white company is committed to thoughtful design, lasting quality and living life beautifully.

7:32Discover more at thewhitecompany.com. Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

7:58Just so you know, I respond really well to action and cut. Action. Kate Winslet, what an absolute joy. Oh, thank you for having me. We've not met before, which feels a bit sad. Yes, it does feel a bit odd since we've both been around for so long. For so long. And we know people who know people. I don't know anyone. Apart from our shared hair colourist. Exactly. There we go. I know, but it's so great to meet you. And you. I had a chat with myself whilst prepping for this podcast because 14-year-old me went to the St Anne Centre in Harrow four times. I used up every penny I could find lying around to watch Titanic.

8:37And I said, right, 14-year-old Fern, you can come along today, but you're not asking the questions. So she's here, but she's not in charge. She's just sitting on your shoulder saying, don't do it, Fern, don't do it. You've probably seen it more times than I've seen it. Oh, my God. I don't tend to watch my films very often. Do you not? No. Funnily enough, no. It's not something like, hmm, I'll just sit down and watch myself in a film. I don't tend to go back on things. The process of making a film and being with everybody and part of that community is so special and unique to me that almost watching the film feels like a very separate part of the process.

9:11And sometimes I almost feel like, oh God, that's something I have to do because it's not, I don't find it comfortable watching myself on screen. I don't know many actors who do like watching themselves on screen. Because you're self-critical? I mean, probably, yes. I mean, I definitely know that I can be, but also just because it feels like, I don't know, it's just a sort of a separate experience. Watching it all put together is so different to the process of making it day to day living and breathing and experience with a big group of people. But seeing something in isolation, separate to those individuals, feels very odd.

9:48So I think it's got something to do with that. Slightly different this time round I'm imagining for Goodbye June Because not only are you in it but you're also directing it So you've kind of got to have all eyes on all of it Outside of your respective part of the acting in it Yes and I produced it as well Because just doing one job or two wasn't enough So I had to do three like an idiot But I loved it all I mean I think I was so exhausted And I had sort of a, I don't know I felt like I had batteries up my bum for months on end But I felt so uplifted by the experience. You know, I heard someone recently say on a podcast, actually, they were talking about the difference between stress and pressure.

10:28Stress being a bad thing, but pressure being something that you can really work with and be uplifted by if you are enriched and fulfilled by what you're doing. And I truly experienced, I think more than ever in my life, real fulfillment and a sense of achievement because I had to pull off a lot in a short space of time. we had seven weeks to prep the film and put it together which is when you find all of the locations and build the sets etc and then I only had seven weeks to shoot which is 35 days yeah Helen Mirren yeah and Helen plays the title role of June and I actually only had her for 16 days you know for three weeks and one day and she's the integral part of the story and I had seven children which was actually eight because there's a baby in the film and that was identical twin girls.

11:14So there was just so much to juggle and balance all of the time. And not only keeping the atmosphere lively and joyful on set, largely for the sake of the children, but also because the subject matter at times was quite wearing on people emotionally. But the crew, you know, as a director, you really do have to lead by example and bring everyone with you. And so having that energy and switching that part of myself on at the beginning of every day was fantastic. And it It really brought me so much joy to do something that I've never done before. And I felt proud of myself as a woman. You know, at this time in my life, I just turned 50.

11:52And to be doing something that I have watched so many men do before. And I've seen male actors transition into directing and have done really successfully and largely without any judgment or scrutiny. And it's just not the same for girls. No, it's not. And it feels like for you personally, not only is this an amazing challenge for you to make that switch, but also you're doing it on behalf of women to help this cultural shift in a very male dominated Hollywood directing scene. Yeah, it mattered to me a great deal, I think, to really sort of walk alongside those women who are in a minority still.

12:32And it's bizarre and it's strange and it's a shame. I think the culture is gradually changing. You know, I think something that people perhaps don't know about directing is that you aren't on the job for seven weeks of prep and seven weeks of a shoot. You know, if the prep is longer and the shoot is longer, then it's a more substantial period of time. But the development process when you work alongside a writer, which I've done several times now, is really, really lengthy. You know, when they hand in draft after draft and you give notes and they get it right, that's a long process in itself. Then pre-production and the production itself.

13:06But then you immediately go right into the edit. And I was across everything. I didn't leave my editor's side. My editor was a woman. I was so proud to work alongside a woman, Lucia Zucchetti, who I just love to pieces. She was wonderful. She worked a lot with Lynne Ramsey in the very early days. And so she was a huge inspiration to me every day in terms of her own sensibility around storytelling. And and then once you finish the edit, which is 10 solid weeks, you go right into the sound mix and then you go into the grade. And then it's just it's absolutely endless. And I love that sense of back to back.

13:42And I think what people perhaps don't consider is that as women, we're so busy raising families, having children. So it is a lot harder to step away. You know, being a director, it's over a year of your life start to finish. It really is. And I certainly couldn't have done it in my life before this time now, where my youngest is almost 12. and I'm lucky enough to have an extraordinary husband who's at home and running the show when I'm in a studio somewhere and I couldn't do any of it without Ned. I mean, it's a total given when you see a male director that no questions would be asked. Like, how are you doing this and juggling a family?

14:24Whereas when it's a female in the role, those questions are probably asked before anything. Like, how are you doing it all? And that, I think, only shows us, like, it illustrates that we are still carrying not only the practical burden a lot of the time, but the emotional burden of raising kids, organising everything, who's taking what to school, is there a school trip coming up, are there birthday presents to buy? It's still, there's not been that much progress in that area. Maybe Ned is one of the few men who are doing that. He is one of the few. I am really very lucky. But, you know, I think what you say is so true that there are questions put to women that are just simply not put to men.

15:01And there are ways in which we speak to women in the film industry that we simply don't speak to men in the same way. And actually, there's still a lot that we have to unlearn in terms of, you know, just sentences that we use when speaking to women in film, assumptions that I think we so often make. I remember when Maggie Gyllenhaal directed Lost Daughter, I remember reading a review and it actually started like this. if anyone ever doubted whether or not Maggie Gyllenhaal could direct a film, you can stop thinking that right now because she smashed it. And I just thought, wow. Wow. But they would never say that about an actor transitioning into directing a film.

15:45And it's not to diss the boys because they're all doing so well. And it's very, very exciting to be part of a community that is changing. And lots of actors are being given that first time opportunity to direct a film. Netflix were brilliant with me. And I have to say, in general, Netflix are spectacularly good at affording filmmakers that first opportunity and that debut experience. And so they really got behind myself and my son, Joe, who wrote the screenplay, and he's young. And there was a huge amount of goodwill and great energy behind us from them. So that mattered a great deal. But it has been fascinating how much I still feel I do have to advocate for myself.

16:21After 33 years in this business. It's quite amazing, really. It's wild. And also the experience you've had in front of the camera obviously lends itself to articulating what you want out of your actors. What was that like? I'm sure that many of them you've worked with before or are friends with, see outside of work. Did that benefit you in the directing? I think the thing that helped me is that I've been so fortunate to work with so many different directors across my career and have learned extraordinary things in great ways, but I've also learned things that I know weren't necessarily helpful to me.

16:59And so I've got a very good memory. And so I can recall certain things that may have been said or a way in which something might have been communicated that was not necessarily supportive or might have thrown me for long enough that I would lose my way in any given shooting day or lose a sense of what my intention was within the scene. And so I think just feeling underpinned by what I know is useful to an actor. And to be honest, the most important thing is that an actor feels heard and given the space to share an idea, even if it might be something that they're worried about coming out of their mouth in a weird way.

17:38And it might sound like a silly idea or they might make a mistake or forget their lines and make up something else. I think giving an actor a space in which they feel entirely safe and free to experiment and to be taken care of, you know, especially with something like Goodbye June, which deals with family. It deals with loss. It deals with very complex relationships. And there's a lot of humor in spite of the sadness that you feel at times as well in the film. And that did mean that there were many private conversations that we as actors had to have together. and then with me as their director knowing that the trust would be there those things would be kept very very private and sacred between all of us and ultimately it bonds you much closer together when you know one another on that very deep granular level and that there are things that you share that you know you would never express anywhere else outside of that really sacred circle and I just loved it and I've always said there's nothing more extraordinary than being in a room full of incredible actors and and it really felt like that oh my god the cast is exceptional I know I know what a dream lineup of people in this film and do you think having been through that great loss of losing your own mum was that I don't want to be as reductive to say like was it cathartic Because it's not that simple, but were there moments where you were able to connect to your own experience in perhaps a painful way or a way that was slightly lightening?

19:14Yes. I mean, I think having lost my own mum in 2017, which still feels like yesterday, it was inevitable that however much I would try and keep that private experience separate to my day to day experience of playing Julia, one of the daughters, and directing Helen Mirren and watching her go through what she went through to play this part. But it wasn't necessarily cathartic, but there were days when I was literally reliving what happened when I lost my own mum, even though our film is fictional. Yeah. And I would find myself strangely trying to almost hide in a funny way. So in the more intimate scenes, perhaps between Helen Mirren and Tim Spall, you know, I would just sit very quietly in the room that we were shooting in and I would hide behind Max, our lovely focus puller.

20:05and I would just sit with him quietly watching his monitor and sort of crying on his back. I mean, I remember many times doing that. And I'm just lucky that he's someone I worked with before with HBO on a very big six month job called The Regime. And he was just a great spirit to sort of sidle up to in those moments when I think I did feel very vulnerable because it did bring all that stuff up. And actually, in this country, I don't think we're very good at talking about loss. I don't think we're very good at processing grief. and in an interesting way, you know, it did bring up a lot of those conversations and people were quite grateful to be able to have them, not just the cast, but sometimes the crew as well.

20:48I bet. I mean, it's a subject you've explored before. In Blackbird, again, after your mum had passed away, it's a very different theme and the angle that your character plays is entirely different. But again, you're having to go through that process of looking, you know, Susan Sarandon in this film, obviously, but going through that loss again, it's full on. I know it is full on. And there are things I think, you know, that as actors we're drawn to entirely subconsciously. And it's only in hindsight that it's crystal clear what we must have been emotionally trying to work through when we made that particular choice.

21:27It's so funny when I look back to Blackbird, which you're right, was 2018, directed by the late, wonderful Roger Michel, still can't believe that we don't have him with us anymore in our film community. But it was only a year after I had lost my mother. And I look back on it now and I think, what was I thinking? I was in no shape, you know, emotionally fit to be making a film to do with loss at all. But it probably helped me to distract myself from emotions that I probably wasn't processing efficiently enough in my own life. if they're difficult conversations to have. And I think what I love the most about Goodbye June is that it is an uplifting film, you know, and that mattered a great deal when we were prepping the film.

22:12We didn't want our hospital spaces to feel stark and cold and lonely because actually when our brilliant national health care workers are working in end-of-life care, they're so loving, they're so patient, they're so kind, they will sit at the bedside for as long as that patient needs or as long as that patient's relatives need for them to be there in order to provide that comfort. And we wanted that sentiment to be real, first of all, which is why we spent a lot of time on real hospital wards, working with nurses and palliative care experts just to make sure that we weren't missing anything. But we wanted to honour the work of those brilliant people and what they do in this country, which is, of course, as we know, second to none.

22:59there'll be so many people this Christmas going through exactly that probably feeling utterly alone like everybody else is having a jolly great Christmas and they're the ones at a bedside I when I was watching it I had this huge memory that I'd sort of like not forgotten but it hadn't been in the forefront of my mind of when my granddad was really really on his sort of final days and we went to visit him on Christmas day and it was a really surreal experience oh my gosh being in hospital on Christmas day and he was kind of in and out of lucidity and saying some like brilliantly hilarious things and being quite wacky in the state he was in and it being yeah there was a lot of hope there and a lot of camaraderie from all of us being around him and I think there'll just be so many people that relate to it and of course when you've lost someone I wonder how you feel about this Christmas does have a different flavor to it oh my gosh it's a different thing It really does, because it's one of those huge celebratory occasions that becomes the first of something that happens after you've lost someone, the first birthday, your children's first birthday that you have after that person's gone, first Christmases, etc.

24:08They become these milestones where it becomes gapingly obvious that that person's presence isn't there anymore and what those moments had meant for you as a family when they were with you. And so, yes, I think I think that it is a very interesting, reflective time, Christmas, because also it brings up so much. It brings up so much wonderful times and really challenging times, you know. And there's so much expectation that it's meant to be something. Yeah. And if you don't land on, oh, it's this perfect sparkly day. Oh, my gosh. You feel like you're missing out or you've got it wrong. It's such a strange, strange thing.

24:49I know. I'm thinking of myself last Christmas and I was just absolutely frantic, you know, doing everything and wrapping and cooking and brining and, you know, all of that stuff. And I remember Ned at one point turning to me and saying, do you think you could just sit down and maybe we could just have a drink? And I said, sit down. Are you mad? and he looked at me like I'd totally lost my mind, which I think I probably had. But anyway, it's all worth it, isn't it? It can be. It definitely can be. It is so much weird fuss for like one day. I know. I started Christmas shopping in like early October this year.

25:21I did that too. Yes, I did that too. I was like, I want to get ahead of all of this and have it wrapped in the side of a room somewhere and I'll think about it in December. I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Like 1st of October, logging on to Christmas shop. It's so funny. I mean, what is Christmas for you? What is Christmas Day like in your house? Oh, it's a real laugh. I mean, it's just fantastic. You know, there's stockings and everyone climbing into bed and all doing stockings and, you know, somebody bringing mum a cup of tea, which I love. And, yeah, it's one of those days when actually I find that my kids really do pause and think and take the time to kind of make me a piece of toast and scrambled eggs like little things like that so and I just love all being together you know heaps of food usually me and my son cooking he's always cooked alongside me and uh oh it's great it's really great lots of people there's always visitors it's great fun yeah so and games lots of silly games Yeah, like what?

26:24What are you playing? Very, very silly games. Oh, my God. Last year, we got obsessed with playing this game called Soundiculous. Oh, I've not heard of it. So it's a little box with two kazoos in it and a little stack of cards. And you have to try and play the tune of the song written on the card, but only through a kazoo. It's flipping hilarious and actually totally made me work myself last year. because people trying to emphatically blow harder to make the thing sound clearer when everyone's shouting out things like, you know, Tootsie! It's clearly not Tootsie. That kind of thing. So that was a great game.

27:01And then there was another game that somebody got us, which, and I can't remember what it was called, but it was so funny. And it's a game where each person puts on a little plastic belt and attached to the back of the belt that dangles down between the legs is a little sort of plastic hook. And then the idea is that you waddle around the room with your legs straddled, trying to pick up little sort of plastic hoops that are balanced in various places on the floor. With a fake willy. With a fake willy. And so getting everyone up on their feet, people who are normally just happy to sit there and eat a box of Quality Street, watching them with a great sort of balloon-type contraction dangling between their legs is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

27:46Yeah, I need to invest in that one. I can't know what it was called. I really like niche bespoke Christmas things that people do because you do get into a sort of sense of tradition that you end up doing the same thing every year. I remember when we were kids. But it's comforting. It's so comforting. It's really comforting and reassuring. I love it. My uncle, every Christmas day, would put on Mike Lee's Nuts in May, which is the least Christmassy film ever. That's hilarious. And we would watch that and it was not Christmas. unless we had watched that. It wasn't, you know, a classic Christmas movie.

28:17It's just such a strange thing. It's a very strange thing. It's a great film. I know. You, like me, are also navigating Christmas with kids, with ex-partners, co-parenting. Do you navigate that well? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's never been any kind of a challenge, actually, at all. There's no tension at all, and I think that we're all very fortunate to be grown-ups who care entirely about children being happy. So no, that hasn't been any kind of an issue for me. For the majority of the last eight years, my daughter's dad and his lovely wife, who I'm just so grateful to have in my life, and their two children, we've all had Christmases together.

28:59That's so lovely. And actually for his daughters who are 12 and 15, it's now weird if they aren't with us. and actually me as dad and I cook the Christmas dinner sometimes. That's so lovely. I know and, you know, I haven't particularly, I haven't ever actually talked about that because we just get on with it. I think there's a sort of a strange fascination in the media with, you know, when high profile couples or people who are in the public eye have separated. There's sort of a huge, you know, flurry of excitement around, oh my God, they get on. Yeah. Well, of course we bloody do. yeah you got kids together well exactly exactly and uh yeah and as I say Jim's wife Julie she's just such a spectacular lady and I just feel so grateful to have had her as Mia's stepmother it's something extraordinary about another mother in the world loving your child the same way that you do and I just feel incredibly grateful to have that yeah well it's peace for everyone for the kids for you it's that's the way forward I mean your daughter Mia is now also acting yes you won a BAFTA together which was a gorgeous moment seeing you both up on stage like what an amazing I can't even imagine how what that felt like well I mean it was just incredible absolutely incredible and I think being in a situation where both of my older children have gone into the film industry and wanting for them to feel as though they were carving their own paths you know I definitely felt very strongly from Mia at the time that she really wanted to prove that she could do it and also that she was different to me she is a very different actress to me different person we look very differently she's actually quite titchy I mean I'm not that tall I'm only five foot six but she's about five foot two and she's got a power to her and a sense of and a realism about her acting she's very very natural unnervingly so actually I think and I was just so proud of her for the performance she gave in I am Ruth because it was unbelievably challenging every single day and I think something people perhaps don't know about I am Ruth was that it was entirely improvised there was no scripted dialogue there was no there were no lines written down for us on a page the script was made up entirely of scenes that were just description there were no words written so every day we were inventing the narrative and that took real concentration but it took from her extraordinary courage because she had to go to places that were very frightening and she bloody well did it my god she smashed it that's so incredible yeah oh the like the pride yeah my clever girl I mean I just yeah I do feel such extraordinary pride and then she was in the Phoenician Scheme directed by Wes Anderson with Benicio and she's she's had a really great run and she's she's a hard worker and uh and she's she's a great great person so I'm very proud I mean obviously it's being a mum is just the most complicated wild ride ever and you want to set your kids free and say go do whatever makes you happy was there trepidation in seeing her go into the same industry that you've been in especially at a young age I'm not the kind of person who approaches anything in life with trepidation to be honest so so the answer is no I mean it certainly crossed my mind okay how is she gonna handle herself in an industry that is quite frantic and can be particularly for her generation particularly as a girl really competitive especially right now so many brilliant young actors are coming up and doing such great things and it's a really exciting time I think to be in the film industry for young people plus there's tons of opportunity now when you look at the streamers and the content there's masses of it you know when I was running around auditioning when I was 16 17 years old there was BBC One BBC Two eventually we got ITV there was radio plays a bit of theatre, low budget films which were rare and films like Star Wars and Casualty.

33:14That was it. Or The Bill and Crime Watch, you know. And you were lucky if you got one of those very few gigs that everybody was vying for. But now that there's this huge wealth of content available, creativity is just going through the roof. And so it's very, very exciting. but I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't worried about Mia not being able to handle herself and I certainly wasn't worried about whether or not she could do it because I've known for years that she was going to be an actress from when she was a little girl I knew and I just thought well one day you'll declare it and then she did and she went are you shocked and I was like no not remotely what about the sort of press element to it because again I mean you and I both know in different ways that they can be bloody awful and I've certainly been to hell and back you've had your own challenges in your own life with that have you would you sort of offer words of advice or did you feel personally worried about her stepping into that yeah I mean I think I think the only I've only ever given my kids advice if they've asked for it right I've never forced anything onto them because I do want for them to completely navigate their own path because if they aren't doing that they won't feel like they've done it and they won't truly believe in themselves and what they have to offer.

34:30So that's the most important thing. The only advice I have given or try and give is just to stay calm, be yourself and don't read reviews. Never. Never. Never. Never, ever. Worst thing you can do. Yeah. I mean, I find feedback such an interesting concept and that's whether it's good or bad because I think both can be kind of equally as dangerous. I might be over-egging the sort of celebratory stuff, but I think if you buy into either side too much, you're kind of screwed because if you believe the good stuff, then when it goes, you don't know who the hell you are. Well, the thing is if you read the good stuff and you believe the good stuff, you're still going to find one bad thing and you will only remember the one bad thing because that's how we're wired.

35:19yeah um so yeah I'd say yeah feedback and yes people are things to be wary of I think yeah I mean where where do you sit in it all now because obviously it's amazing especially when you've worked on a project like like Goodbye June when you're so ingrained into every element of it you want people to enjoy it you want people to say oh my god that touched me I wept or I thought it was purely joyful but equally when you're sort of lapping up that feedback you are then curious about like you said the downside do you do you read anything do you hear anything about your projects you're working on so I I learned early on in my career how to not care what people think because if you care what people think then you make decisions and live your life based on potential scrutiny or criticism but I do very much care how people feel so when people come up to me you know in the eggs aisle in Waitrose and they tell me that they can't wait to sit down with their daughter and watch the holiday at Christmas like they do every single year like many mother and daughter couples it's a running theme it warms my heart completely so people coming up and saying oh that performance moved me or I really loved that film and it meant so much to me and reminded me of my that's different that is a wonderful thing because we're only making the work for audiences.

36:40That's the most important part for me. So actually, I have thought a little bit about how am I going to cope with this now with Goodbye June coming out and reviews as a director? Because I think I might feel a sense of responsibility and duty for the other actors to just know that it's all okay, you know, everyone chill, you know, keeping everyone level and that sense again of wanting everyone to feel safe and supported I might feel that I need to just keep a bit of an eye but I don't know maybe I maybe I will be able to apply my same you know personal survival strategy rule and not read anything it matters to us as the people behind the film it matters to us enormously that people appreciate it and feel moved by it and perhaps that it might ignite conversation because I think that some of the most complicated relationships in our lives are with the ones we love the most yeah um and so often you know we forget to talk about that and it's so much easier not to have those confronting conversations with a family member that you may need to have it's so much easier to just avoid it but actually in the long run And is that right?

37:58You know, and I think the film really does dig in to that and ignite that conversation, which is interesting to me. Oh, my God, without a doubt. I mean, there's always that very moving scene where you're sat with your sister on the floor and I don't want to give too much away, but you're having a real, very needed heart to heart after years of not getting on, clashing heads. Well, not speaking. Well, not speaking. And, you know, that is very commonplace again in many families, you know, where there's relatives that will not be in the same room as each other. Yeah. Would you say that you've applied that to real life?

38:28Because it is hard. Like, you know, if I think about having really honest conversations with my mum or dad, that to me is way harder than probably sitting here with someone having a heart to heart that I don't really know. Yeah, conversations with parents are something that I actually, as I got older, and I think because I became a parent quite young when I was only 25, I think I had an awareness from a younger age of just how important it was to communicate properly with my parents. I have a very, very close relationship with my father and we do really share everything and we have good old chats and he's absolutely brilliant at telling it how it is.

39:11So I'm very, very grateful to have that. I mean, I just try and live my life, you know, with intention and integrity and to treat people the way I myself would hope to be treated in return. Life is really too short to be burdened with negativity and, you know, toxic influences. And I just I just do my best to, you know, walk through the world being a decent person. It matters. It matters to me a great deal in every aspect with family, with friends, with people I work with. It matters to me a lot. Do you care how much you're liked? Because I think that's a very different thing. And I like what you said earlier, the distinction between not caring what people think, but caring what people feel.

39:54I'd never really landed on that before. And I think that helps in this conversation because I, in the last couple of years, have wanted to really combat that need to be liked. And I think because, I mean, my job is being myself. So if someone says they don't like you, it's you they don't like rather than it being a character or sometimes even a skill set. And I think that used to feel like a huge burden and I'm unpicking it. But the tendency to people please was omnipresent. And it informed so many of my decisions and the way that I moved through the world. And I'm only now in my mid 40s going, I don't want to do that anymore.

40:31I've got to care less of people like me. And if I need to say something that seems a bit blunt or forward or I need to say no, quite frankly. But it's interesting. But in what context do you mean like? So are you talking about people that you meet or are you talking about things that you read? Because I think, you know, you're obviously globally well known. And I'm absolutely not. But I think it is more heavily weighted when people assume things about you and go, oh, yeah, I really I really like that Kate Winslet. I really like that Fern Cotton. Oh, I don't like her. You know, people instantly make a decision as to whether you're a likable character.

41:05And that for me has been it's been disproportionately heavy. Fern, darling, give me the advice. Let's go. You cannot control or dictate the opinions and attitudes of other people. No. All you can do is live your best life. Yeah. Be a decent person. Yeah. And live and speak with integrity. Yeah. And then you know that you can go to sleep at night knowing that you did your best today. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. You can't please everybody. No. There will always be people who don't like your hair, don't like your face, don't like the sound of your voice, don't believe the things that you say. One thing for me that I know people assume is that I'm really well educated, well bred, well read, probably had a bit of privilege.

41:52I was a little street scrapper. My parents had absolutely nothing. But people don't think that of me because I speak well. And I absolutely understand why people wouldn't think that. But there's a reason why I speak very well. And it's because my maternal grandmother went to Italia Conti, which is a very famous theatre school. She was in the same year as Noel Coward. Wow. So she was taught how to speak. She grew up above a pub on Charlotte Street. She was taught how to speak well. So when she had her six children, they copied the mother tongue. So when I was born, we copied our mother's tongue, which was to speak well.

42:32And it drives me crazy that I would never be able to correct what people think. But I can't do anything about that. No, you can't. I can't do anything about that at all. You drive yourself mad. And you know what? It's okay. Let them think what they're going to think. You can't live your life trying to change the opinions of other people. It doesn't work. You'll make yourself miserable. When do you think you landed on that? Because obviously I think being thrown into the spotlight at a young age, you are fast tracked to try and learn that one quickly if you want to survive Hollywood. And that might sound like quite a severe way of saying it.

43:02No, it's not. You do. You survive it or you don't. You're absolutely right. Surviving Hollywood, surviving, you know, an industry that can be cutthroat. Certainly when I was younger, was very cutthroat. And the mainstream media in the UK, it's no secret, were absolutely horrific to me. Horrendous in a way that they should all be ashamed of. And every single tabloid newspaper should have sent me a written apology, which they haven't done. Even that is disgraceful. It's just like, be courteous. Just hold your hand up and say, we shouldn't have done that to you. You were a young girl. And I was scrutinized for how I looked because they decided I was fat.

43:39Well, what do you think that does to a person's self-esteem? What do you think that does to someone who probably was teetering on the verge of a horrible eating disorder at that age? because I don't know any young actress at that time in the early 90s, late 80s, early 90s, who wasn't battling with some form of issue around their physical selves, because that was simply what the press did. And I think I realised after a lot of upset and hurt and a feeling of wanting to just hide, actually, I think, for a while, I realised that I couldn't change any of it. I could just hope that it was going to quietly go away eventually.

44:18And I was very lucky because I had Mia, as I said, when I was so young and that became my world. And so all that other shit, it just evaporated. Thank God. And that's one thing now that I have been able to carry into my parenting of all of my children. I just tell them to be themselves, you know, tell them that they should only ever feel great and be kind to themselves because sometimes they have to hear from us as mothers. You are beautiful. You are wonderful. Now get out there and be yourself. Because guess what, Fern? If we aren't telling them these days those things, they might not hear it from anywhere else.

44:57Because the world is so critical. And because of social media and because of likes and because of wanting to conform to some strange idea of perfection that God knows where it comes from. But young people on the whole are suffering with their mental health. They are chasing some ideal just because they want to feel good in who they are. So this sort of strange, slightly warped perception of being included, counting for something, you know, a basic level of self-esteem is being really tampered with, I think, amongst young people today. And I find it really sad and really very, very worrying. And that's why looking like a normal person, having a face that moves, having all of the wrinkles that my 50 years hopefully show, that matters a great deal.

45:48Because, again, I want to lead by example. I want for young women to look at my body, my face and go, oh, that's a normal one. You know, there might not be that many of us being the normal ones, but it's important and it matters. And I know that the women in my industry who I admire the most of all, they're completely normal, gorgeous, beautiful women at the age of 70, 75, 80. And it's reassuring that we have those people to look up to. We all want someone to look up to. And I think if we can be decent women in today's world and be kind to ourselves and to others, I think it's important. Being kind to yourself is so huge.

46:30One of my best mates always says to me, if I'm, you know, she's a person I'll call in a crisis or if I'm not dealing with something well. And she'll always say, OK, I'm listening to everything you're saying and I hear it and I get it. Just don't turn the gun on yourself. And that always stays with me if I'm having a tough time, because I definitely probably more so used to have the propensity to go, oh, yeah, I am. I'm a shitty person. I'm awful. And I will just regurgitate anything that I've heard about myself, especially when I was younger. and, you know, exposed to press stories about me or whatever.

47:04Were there times where you didn't have that level of self-compassion, your younger self? Yes, I think I think when I was a teenager and I'm talking like when I was, you know, 14, 15, 16, because I was quite chubby then, like actually uncomfortable in a way that also didn't really add up. You know, I think hormonally there's probably stuff going on. Yeah, I definitely had days when I'd look in the mirror and think, OK, I'm not going to look in the mirror again today. Or I'd put a sheet over the door, the door with the mirror on it. Definitely things like that. I don't think I ever felt ashamed of myself, but definitely self-conscious.

47:45And I was teased as a child, as a younger child at primary school for being a bit on the stocky side. Children can be cruel to other children. And that kills me, actually. It's terrible because an environment in a school classroom can really make or break a child's life in school. And school should be somewhere where you feel looked after, supported and educated. And it should be a place where you make friends and people who are going to have your back. And I didn't have that, actually. I know it sounds like a bit of a sob story, but I didn't really have that. So when I look back on my childhood and I, you know, sort of think, who are the friends I've got from, you know, from childhood from those days?

48:31actually I've got a nice handful of really great friends who I met much later in my teenage years a few people from secondary school actually like two and then from when I started working when I went out into the world and I was cast in a film when I was 17 years old I started to really make great friends who became the keepers and are still part of my life today yeah so important yeah have ever done that thing where you kind of go back and you and you mentally say I'm gonna embrace that little 14 year old me and I'm gonna I'm gonna give her all the love that she didn't necessarily feel she got then I certainly got a huge amount of love from my family that's that's one thing I will say and my mum and dad in spite of how little we had were always absolutely brilliant at you know saying oh the sun's out let's go for a drive you know let's jump in a river or climb a tree or My parents were extraordinary at encouraging us to be in the outside world, which I think is so important, especially today.

49:34So I felt the love from my family. But yeah, if I was to go back, yeah, I definitely. It's interesting, actually, before I turned 40, the night before I turned 40, 10 years ago, I actually had a dream where I walked into a classroom and saw my younger self. Whoa. Yeah, it was really extraordinary. you're probably going to get loads of messages from you know holistic practitioners about what that actually meant but I really did I walked into a classroom as myself I was a grown-up I was poised I was graceful and I was just going to see all these children and I was sat there and it was incredible that's so moving yeah it was very moving and I went and I and I sat with my younger self oh god I mustn't get emotional now because it was such an amazing dream but I said to my younger self it's okay slow down it's okay oh I'm crying no it's just I get it it was bizarre I'm very clear to me and I don't particularly remember dreams or even write them down I've never written down a dream but it was so vivid and I do remember thinking oh yeah maybe I can slow down maybe I can just chill for a bit and enjoy the things that I've done and feel good about those achievements it's quite hard to take a moment and go oh I did well yeah well done me do you still find that now because I am beyond guilty of that I find it terrifying to think that there's even a week where I'm not incredibly busy trying to juggle 10 different jobs and I and I kind of know the root of all of my things like oh yeah I know I'm feeling that fear again that everything's it's all going to go everything's going to I won't have a job and it's all going to disappear I still have a bit of that going on all these years later would you still have that drive oh yeah no I still have I still have all of that um and partly because I always want to be doing this job so I never want people to not keep inviting me back to the party because I really like being at the party it's great fun um no I definitely think I definitely think as women and in this country I don't know that we're necessarily very good at telling each other my god well done I was so impressed and proud of you for doing that I don't think we're very good at that and I also don't think we're very good at saying openly I was really really proud of myself for that thing I did because you know I was up against it but I bloody pulled it off.

51:48Very un-British. Very un-British but but I do that and in the last 10 years in particular I've been very consciously doing that and I think it's because I want to make sure that my children hear that and emulate that and know that it's okay to say I was I was proud of myself with how I handled that situation or how I spoke to that person or the job that I did. I think it's important to show a bit of, you know, self-love and gratitude in that way and a bit of self-pride. Yeah, and subsequently rest and feel all right about it. Yeah, well, that I do find hard to do, the resting and feeling all right about it.

52:24You know, I always think, why am I sitting down? I need to stand up again. Same. So bad. Yeah, it's terrible. Even having a bath, I'm like, oh, I've been in here a little bit too long. I need to get out and do something. Oh, my gosh, you have baths. You have time for baths. very rarely i'm talking like once every two weeks i'm like i can't sit there i can't sit there it all takes too long things to do even running it oh god it takes too long really oh come on oh and now the water's gone cold now it's gone cold ned the water's gone cold again so i know the answer to this question is not going to be in the bath where is your happy place no it's not in the bath an ice bath different matter oh are you into the ice bathing oh yeah god yeah it's so fantastic is that a daily thing uh no it's not really daily just because i can't always figure out a way to pull it off daily certainly cold water very cold water the colder the better it makes you feel fantastic and it's impossible it's impossible to regret it you can never regret getting in the cold water even for 30 seconds um I'm not sure I would say that that's my happy place my real happy place is there's a couple of different ones really but quite honestly anywhere where it's me Ned and the kids and it's just us and we're all in the same space that is somewhere I do feel incredibly happy.

53:48Another place that I feel very, very happy is walking through like a snowy forest. There's something about the stillness and the silence and the beauty of it that almost gives me hope in the time before this time. And what I mean by that is not Neanderthal times and cavemen and etc. Not that at all. But just the time before this digital age when things were simpler and life was quieter. And I do have an iPhone. I still grapple with the fact that I have one. I'm talking very seriously about getting rid of it in the new year. But even I, and I don't have social media, I do find myself just scrolling too long on that news page you know why am I playing wordscapes why am I like you know what why I don't want to be staring at this stuff I don't want it at all um and so there's something about the stillness of being in snow in nature in that way not walking alone always with somebody else I love conversation and also long walks with my family with my kids those conversations have always been fantastic and a really big part of our lives is where we share a lot of creativity and story ideas joe would share a lot of his ideas for goodbye june on long walks together and uh my kids have tested me on lines on long walks you know and now the same thing happens with them yeah um and so there's there's something about being outside walking that is very special to me and makes me happy and it doesn't matter what the weather's doing but preferably cold same yeah i love a good old ramble oh it's heaven there's nothing better nothing better well i'm so thrilled to have spoken to you today and how exciting that goodbye june is going to be released into the world for everybody to see i know joe and i are like oh my god people are going to see it it's so exciting it's quite it's it's a it's a very exciting and uh and bizarre feeling and i do feel proud of it And I feel proud of ourselves.

56:03I feel proud as a woman to have done this. It sort of feels like it marks the beginning of maybe a new chapter in my life and makes me feel like, yeah, woohoo, bring on my 50s, baby. It's yeah, it feels exciting. Too right. Well, good luck with all of it. And thank you so much for today. Pleasure. Oh my God. Kate's got that amazing quality, as you've just heard there, to make you believe that you might now be best friends with her. Like, am I? Is that all in my head? I think it is in my head. But she was just so brilliantly grounded and lovely throughout. And I like that that chap just meandered off into all these different avenues.

56:46And obviously she's an exceptional storyteller. So it's so good getting to know a bit more about Kate and her life, what an extraordinary life she's had. Goodbye June is in cinemas from the 12th of December and will be on Netflix on the 24th of December. That is a perfect Christmas Eve moment. alright massive thanks again to Kate to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you is it too early to say Merry Christmas you filthy animals

57:32Thank you.