"Little Joe would’ve watched Heartstopper in secret!" Joe Locke: queer representation matters

0:00I am thrilled to have been chosen as one of Apple Podcasts 2026 creators we love. Hey look, if you've just found the show, welcome. You can see all of my favourite episodes, shows and the other featured creators on Apple Podcasts. Enjoy. Hello and a huge welcome to Happy Place with me, Fearne Cotton. This is the show that gives you space to figure out who you are. Today I'm chatting to Joe Locke. I think Little Joe would have benefited from Heartstopper but I think Little Joe would have probably made fun of Heartstopper because he wanted to survive in a very certain system but I think he would have watched it in secret.

0:43I did one Heartstopper came out I remember going back to my school and a lot of the younger students. I think there's a lot more acceptance for self-expression in younger people than even when I was at school, which was only five years ago, than there was when I was 12. Oh my God. You find me in such a good mood today, guys. And I hope that you feel the same. Doesn't matter if you're not, because there's plenty of episodes of this where I'm in a shit mood. That's also absolutely fine. But I am still 100 % buzzing on life from the Happy Place Festival, London, that just took place last weekend.

1:15I don't even know how to sum it up. I don't even know if I've processed it yet. I mean, what I will start by saying is the biggest thank you ever to not only all the brilliant teachers, facilitators, practitioners, speakers that we had there, but to any of you lovely lot that came along as Festival Revelers and tried to walk around and meet as many of you as possible. People that had come from like the northern tip of Scotland, people coming from the most southern tip of Cornwall, Someone flew from San Diego, which blew my mind. But I'm so grateful because the energy was perfect and amazing. And it was brilliant because of everyone that was there.

1:56That's what makes a place special, the people. And I'm still totally high on life from the whole thing. I had one moment where I actually really took in my surroundings. I don't often get the opportunity because it's just so manic when I'm there. but I was stood watching Lucas Jones who PS is going to be a guest on the podcast soon he was reading some poetry in the expressive arts area and I just stood there watching the crowd there were people like wiping tears away someone was flying a kite over here I could hear music playing from the centre stage I could hear laughter over to my right and I just had this amazing moment of like wow this is this is really cool um it was just beautiful and I had a little cry I had a little weep to myself it was a beautiful moment and I also want to say the most heartfelt thank you to team happy place who are just the absolute best they're like there's they're an unrivaled team my god every single person who helped to quite literally build the festival from the ground up, but also organise it on the day from the speakers to the classes that were happening to the social media, to the audio we recorded.

3:11Everyone is just the best and we're on their A game. So I'm over the moon. And we're going to do it all again in September in Manchester. So I get to do it all again and I'm really happy about that. So I'm buzzing today. I'm tired. I've got a bit of a croaky voice. I feel like my voice is an octave lower than normal, but I feel croaky and happy and I was so excited about this chat today with the brilliant Joe. Joe is obviously best known for his role as Charlie in Heartstopper and he's since become one of the most recognisable young LGBTQ plus actors globally and now he's back in the farewell film Heartstopper Forever.

3:51Oh my god I've been lucky enough to see it before it came out and it is so it's heart-wrenching and so beautiful and reminded me of being young. I was like vicariously living through these characters. We talk about a lot in this, navigating sudden fame at such a young age. And obviously I've got my own weird experience of starting in the TV industry at a young age. So I was interested to have that chat with Jo. We talked about the fun of your mum watching you on screen during a sex scene. What an awful moment for poor Jo. also other career aspirations that he had that I think might surprise you and why he'll only choose projects that align with his values in future what a lovely lovely human being Joe is also some great goss about how Joe actually spent his time at the Heartstopper premiere just last week while every other channel is fighting for your customers attention podcasts are where they've already given it.

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5:22Now, before we get to Jo, obviously I was weighing on about how much fun I had at the Happy Place Festival at the weekend. Tickets for Gulp 2027 Happy Place Festival in London are available now. Why waste time? If you had a lovely time this year or maybe you've seen on social media what we got up to and you think, I want a bit of that. You can get your tickets now. Just head to happyplaceofficial.co.uk. All the info's there and the tickets. Right, here we go. This is it. Here's the show.

6:16Hello, lovely Jo. Hello. How are you? I'm good, thanks. How are you? I'm good. Fresh from your premiere last night. Fresh is the right word there. That suit was excellent. Thank you. Thank you. Did you feel powerful in it? I felt very powerful. I felt like, yeah, powerful and hot. Yeah. I love wearing a suit. It's great. It's the best feeling. I should wear a dress and maybe then I'll feel... No, suits are better. There's something about suits very grounding. Yeah, I felt like I was the boss bitch. You were the boss bitch. I mean, walking those red carpets is horrendous as anyone. It's just the worst thing ever.

6:52Terrifying. You feel sort of exposed. Everyone's staring at you. Staring at you. Yeah. Everyone's staring at you, but not talking to you. No. They just sort of look at you. And then I was like, oh, where do I go? So unnerving. Yeah. So having a good suit, a powerful suit is the way forward. I think so. How was it? Did you actually sit and watch the film last night? So I wasn't going to. and then I got there and I was like oh it would be really nice to watch with more my family and my friends and then got onto the screen and I've never seen such a big cinema screen in my life it was the it was the most humongous screen and then it got to there's a scene in the film where I get a blowjob I've seen it great not on a big screen you don't even see that bit you just see my face and some noises and I looked my mum while sat next to me and I was like nope I can't do this I just got up and left oh god I lasted a good 15-20 minutes I mean it's not normal is it that your mum watches you getting a blowjob no I hope it's not normal no it's not even a fake blowjob it's not normal no and what is your mum just kind of looking ahead pretending it's not happening my mum was pissing herself laughing she was just laughing I love it but then I just left and had a drink then I had two tequilas in the bar and then came back in for the last half an hour of the film and then forgot that they were making us do a Q &A afterwards.

8:17And I was like, I'm drunk now. I'm really drunk. So I think I was just very quiet in the Q &A, doing a lot of nodding. That's so good. Strange being an actor, isn't it? It's a weird life. So odd. So odd. So odd, but so exciting. Yeah. I mean, I get to live my dream and that's great. It's beautiful. And also you exec produced this film as well. I did. that's a nice string to your bow yeah it's nice to have your opinions listened to because they have to yeah i love that but it was a very it ended up being a very collaborative felt like it was like we graduated into those roles of and the story is has always been so like collaborative anyway so it was just sort of the nice next step yeah and it's such a moving heart like gut-wrenching film at times and it it sort of I'm in my mid-40s now but it dragged me back to all of those feelings of being young and navigating you know what your life is going to look like and trying to imagine it and trying to create that forward motion of like this is the person that I want to become you've depicted that perfectly in the film thanks yeah yeah it's it's been weird because i feel like my growing up and becoming an adult has like sort of mirrored the show and the characters and the journey and because like we started that show almost five years ago you know it still feels like we're like the new kids in town but we're very much not bafta do this rising star party every year and this year me and my friends were like oh let's go and my publicist was like i'm not sure i don't think you need to go to that one anymore and i was like no no it'll be fun it'll be great got there and we were like the oldest people there and we knew everyone and all these like young new shiny things were in here and I felt like I was like in this with a cigarette in the corner like that was me that was me before now I'm a washed out old thing but it was nice in that it was like oh like I'm not the new kid anymore and that's actually a nice thing like I know all these people here and like I remember going into that party four years ago and being like what is this that is a good feeling I mean much like how you depict in the film that moment of you know in the film your characters are going to university but that thing of you are the small fish and you're you're starting in this big pond and the same in the acting world that you know you go to a red carpet you go to a party everybody's you know familiar with the environment and each other and you've got to kind of pretend and and go along with like i'm okay no one tells you what to do in those scenarios no terrifying and now you're like yeah no it's just yeah another the party i've got this did you enjoy revisiting heart stopper making the film being back with your cast members and friends yeah it always feels like like going back to school or like going back to boarding school after not that i've got any idea what that's like but um like going like going home in a way because most of the crew was always the same throughout the four different times we'd done it and all the cast always came back and it felt just comfortable and nice and how's it now Now you're in the bit just prior to the film being released and you've got red carpets and you've got press and you've got the hysteria.

11:34There is a hysteria about Heartstopper. That doesn't happen so often that a show creates such fandom and people going absolutely nuts for it. And you're at the epicentre of that. What's that like for you? Weirdly normal now. I think when it first happened and the show came out and it sort of blew up it took a few years to adjust to the changes in my life and changes in what I share on social media and how much I want to say and what the public persona of Joe is compared to what me as an actual person is like and I went through like at first it was like I'm gonna post everything give everything and then I almost went after like six months I was like oh no this is too much and they did the complete opposite and like didn't post it on social media for like a year and now I feel like I'm in like a happy medium where I I I know my boundaries I know what I like about it what I don't like about it and which it is nice but it's it's it's just weird it's a weird weird in a good way but it's a weird situation to be in yeah and I guess because you can never anticipate with a brand new show although there's obviously the that Heartstopper was popular before the TV show was made.

12:51You can't guarantee that's going to translate and that there's going to be that hysteria around a TV show. So to an extent, you weren't prepared for what came after the show was released. Not at all. I mean, we made the show on a shoestring budget and Netflix was like, oh, this is nice, but I don't think they would mind me saying that. I don't think they had any idea that it would explode in the way it did. and so we didn't do any press for see we did like half a day press for season one um we did like little bits here and there and then the show came out and then suddenly I had like I gained like three million Instagram followers in two days oh my god yeah which is crazy and yeah I was still back in the Isle of Man doing my A-levels and so it was a very yeah there's absolutely no way you can prepare for it but we were especially unprepared for it that's wild I mean that's a really tricky thing to navigate, certainly when you're not expecting it.

13:49And to go quite literally from like, you're doing your A-levels to you've got millions of people wanting to know your business, all eyes on you. Did that mentally take its toll? Because I'm in my mid-40s and I've been doing this job a long time and it still fucks me up in the head constantly. The level of, I don't know, sometimes I just feel like I'm absolutely losing the plot. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely still elements and times where it feels like that and at the time I think at the time it was like so alien and so not real that it didn't almost like it's too abstract yeah it was just wasn't a real thing because I was just this 17 year old 18 at that point like kid from the Isle of Man like this isn't it's not real life and whereas now it's like oh no this definitely is real life yeah been a long dream if it's still not waking up correct I can pinch you real hard and we can see who it is um what did the people around you back home you know what was their reaction to it because often you can remain the same but other people can project onto you that you're a bit different now that you've changed in some way even though you feel exactly the same yeah as you did I have always had amazing friends around me and like all my best friends before from home are still my best friends I live with one of them now which is great and they always if I remember one of my best friends saying to someone you know what Joe like I actually think this has made you have less of an ego before you were a bit of an asshole but now you can now you're actually now you have to check your ego it's actually less than it was which is great thanks I'm happy that well it does bring about this really weird acute level of self awareness that you know you don't have to necessarily have that in such a magnified way if you're not seen by lots of people and exposed to lots of people in terms of you know like you say how you're using social media or what they think of you or what they believe you're all about so you have to like in a setting like this everything we're saying now is being heard by lots of people that we don't know and they can then make an assumption of who you are as a person based on this so you do start to almost overthink everything that comes out of your mouth every outfit that you put on everything you post on social media is so overthought that it's actually quite hard to then let your guard down and relax and go oh my god or like what is the distinction between the you at work and the you at home yeah it is it's something that i definitely have struggled with but i think i've realized recently i just don't care in like in a way of like sometimes if those things blow then that's okay and next time it doesn't have to and there's also there doesn't have to be like a distinct huge difference in those things because i think if you try and compartmentalize your life into those completely two different things then then it becomes like just exhausting yeah so like that like i would say the joe at work and joe at home are they are the same person and very similar just maybe the joe at work wouldn't like scratch my bum when i had an itch i just did although i literally just did it so feel free yeah um I've heard you talk previously about how bits of your not necessarily childhood but your your teendom and being a young person bits of your life you you sort of miss because you're all of a sudden in this machine that is making a tv show doing the press for it you're on to the next one other opportunities are coming about you've got all the furore around the tv show coming out so you miss certain little milestones that other young people might go through how does that make you feel it's I think it like it's like sacrificing little things for the opportunity to do my dream job and live the life I always wanted to live like I didn't go to university but I don't didn't need to and I would have loved to gone to university and I still think I wonder do want to get a degree but right now this journey is taking me and that's and I want to follow that or like all the little things like if I go to a club with my friends you know it's just it's just slightly different for me experience because while people are very respectful and nice I can see that person if they're looking at me for a little bit too long because they're trying to figure out if they knew who I am and I don't know there's just you know you make adjustments but I think that maybe like three years ago it really affected me and I wouldn't just wouldn't do things because I was worried about always being recognized or like things being online about me being drunk and silly and whereas now I have a rule to myself that I won't not do something because I'm worried about that if that if that means I have to do it or whilst wearing a cap or doing something else or like just like adjustment to make it more comfortable for myself then I will do that but I'm not going to not do things because of that because also I get to do so many amazing things because of it and I get to go to so many amazing places and meet so many amazing people that i don't i used to see the the sacrifice is not the right word because it's not a sacrifice to have to wear a cap and somewhere like get life but but i used to see them as like negatives whereas now it's like well it's just it's just part of it and you get used to it and you yeah and also who gives a fuck who cares also no one cares it's what i've also learned no one cares and even if you know even if the shit hits the fact like someone post a picture or something is in the papers like what we're all human yeah giving it our best shot and sometimes you want to go out and get shit faced in the club like who cares and sometimes it's fun to laugh at articles about you in the sun yes exactly i mean you have to otherwise you'll cry you'll cry um i totally hear you i didn't go to uni either because i started work at 16 and my own experience of starting in tv so young i mean i think it does fuck you in the head in some way yeah i'm sure it just does you know i think they're missing out on you know those sorts of the stuff where you can be messy when you're meant to be messy in life and like make big mistakes and whatever i think it feels again it's not like a big sacrifice i don't want to over dramatize it but i do think for me it personally fucked me in the head without a doubt i think it makes you you go from being like you were 16 i was 17 you go from being 16 17 you're actual genuine teenager and then suddenly you're a full adult without those years of of making the mistakes and doing the things that people do in the ages of like 70 to 25 like whenever i meet people they're always like oh you're such a an old wise soldier and it's like yeah because i had to be a 35 year old when i was 17 so it's so true and you're you're not only surrounded by adults in the workplace you know we both were you you're instantly working with people way older than you and you don't want it to feel just like a maternal paternal relationship you want to feel like on some level with the people you're working so you do up age but simultaneously i felt infantilized by the industry yeah and by the job itself so i felt five but 55 yeah and it was just the weirdest thing and it's taken me years i reckon until like the last few years where i've gone you're in you're in your 40s and that's where you're at yeah like that's just where you're at you don't need to be the little lost kid version of you or that i'm trying to be really adult or you know i'm paying my parents rent and i'm 16 sure with responsibility kind of thing it's such a strange dynamic yeah because i often talk about how like in the entertainment industry there's no other job where you can be the youngest person in the room but yet have the most power like if i go on to set and if i don't want something to happen as much as it i would never because that's diva and thing like if it's just what it won't happen if i say i don't like that then that i would never do that but knowing that one could at such a young age especially when like if you're being thrust into this world you've got no idea what it is like i understand now i can see very clearly how like people like who don't have the right support systems in place just go off the rails yeah totally and the thing that stops you i think is your upbringing yes and i've got a mum that would have at any point and still would go shut the fuck up yeah same like sort your shit out yeah you were raised by a single mum yeah how do you think how she raised you has informed how you're navigating all of this craziness yeah I mean my mum is amazing and she takes no bullshit yeah good but she's also the kindest most lovely person in the world she's a primary school teacher and I think being a primary school teacher is probably one of the hardest jobs in the world and I could never do it new um but she does it and she loves it and she loves kids and she's yeah she always she was a great mom and I had her her sisters as well who would there and I had a very like woman-centric upbringing I love that it was great village of women yes all the witches yes exactly it's my favorite yeah it's so good and it's funny what age do you think you got to where you saw your mum and maybe your aunties as humans because there is this like weird moment in adulthood where you can recognize yes this is my mum and these are her traits and this is how she parents me but you're also like my god she lived this whole life before i came along and there's a human there that's got their stories and their issues and the strength they have at what point did you start seeing that do you think um i don't know i mean i think my mom has always been one of the things i love my mom is she's always been so honest with me i think that she was a teacher and she always talks about how like children are the most far more resilient than adults and how we we like infantilize kids too much and don't tell them about things and they they don't learn about things so she never hid anything away from me obviously like age appropriately but um and so I think I saw her as a human quite early on which is great I like that style of parenting and you know I'm a parent so I'm constantly trying to navigate that like how much do you say how honest should you be yeah but you on the receiving end of that that's been a real yeah that she's just had adult chat with you about yeah like if I asked about something she would tell me and I mean obviously there's like certain things but like I never felt like I she allowed me to be curious which I think is a very good thing yeah was there a point when you were a kid when you said I want to be an actor mum this is this is for me yeah numerous times and she was like okay darling and the Isle of Man has a very great Amdram scene and so I remember when I was six I auditioned for the Wizard of Oz and I got a call back but it was just too much and I just got her crying and couldn't go back in and then it was like three or four years later I was like oh i want to try it again mom was like are you sure darling and then yeah and then she ended up having to then take me to like rehearsals every night after work and like on the bus because she didn't drive and she sacrificed a lot of her but now she's making up for it so yeah she's loving it it's so great she must be unbelievably proud yes she is so proud

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25:47So Isle of Man's got a great Amdram scene. I didn't know this. Yes, it does. So you're doing theatre shows on the Isle of Man. You're getting a taste for it. This is what you want to do. What were your dreams at that point? What could you envisage for yourself? Because you've clearly manifested it. Yeah, I mean, I wanted to be in the West End. I want to be in musicals, but I can't dance. it's the big draw there that was my like passion and then as I got a bit older I'd seen friends who are incredibly talented move to London go to Arts Ed go to Lambda do all the drama schools and then have to move home after a few years because they couldn't afford to live in London because it's a very expensive place to live and I didn't want that because I was also quite academic at school and I loved learning and I also was very passionate about politics and journalism and history and so I was like oh I'll just get a degree in politics and history and then my dream my other dream job within being an actor was to be a political correspondent at the BBC because I was like that's a bit like acting it's like I love that for you yeah and I like that was that was my like so then I started focusing on that for a bit and then Heartstopper did an open call so anyone could audition yeah I was like oh fuck it why not let's have a go and then then everything just sort of happened very quickly after that isn't that so mad like those moments of fate it's so bonkers it is very very weird when you went into that audition well you've done you you've done the audition you've you've gone back home did you have a little feeling like that felt pretty good yes I I think I sort of knew did you just like the way everyone was acting and yeah I I had to guess and then because it was during covid so i then had to go back to the isle of man and self-isolate in my house on my own because if you left the isle of man you had to there were some very strict rules why and so i found out i got the part and it's just me alone in my house my mom had to stay at my grandma's house on facetime it's like ah great cool oh my god but then i'm imagining you had more time to process it yeah i had well then i had like a week and a half left i had to self-isolate for and then i had to leave three days after that to start filming so it was all very fast such a whirlwind so up until then you'd been doing mainly theatre yeah but like all amateur doesn't do any screen stuff that is a leap isn't it to then go into you know a huge TV show yeah yeah it was but I think at the time because it didn't seem like a huge like no one thought it would be a huge TV show until three days after it came out it was always a very little thing and then which I think helped the first season be as sweet as it was because we were all had no idea what we were stepping into kind of in a delightful situation yeah not have that anticipation what did you have nerves walking on set for the first time yeah i think i did it's it's weird i like that whole first season of filming i sort of don't remember very much um because it was so long ago and so like a blur yeah but i remember that first day i remember our first scene with me toby and willie play isaac and tau my best friends and it was just on a bench and I remember like walking out of this school abandoned school in Slough that we filmed in and there was like one camera on a little boom up thing and like some lights and I was like this is the most crazy thing ever now if I was walking that I'd be like oh all right yeah the huge yeah even that I'd be like oh god is that it is that what we have today yeah um but then it was like wow this is the biggest thing ever yeah so amazing it's it's such a cool thing to think back to like that's that was the birth of it all that's the start of it that was it was yeah and then this is kind of the end this is the end this is it yeah how does that feel bittersweet in the i think the show was very ready to end um i could have gone on making that show forever but i think there's nothing worse than when things like last too long and like you clearly it's like you're 45 playing a 20 year old like come on let's in Greece yeah let's just let's go in Greece let's go with our head house high but it yeah it feels it feels like sending a kid to university like it's ready we're ready everyone's ready but it's still a bit sad yeah it's maybe something like in 10 years you'll really feel like oh my god that was just the most gorgeous yeah definitely you're still in it yeah until it's done done done but if it's weird like last night the premiere everyone was asking me this and i sort of just it doesn't feel like it's i think it probably hit me in like two weeks yeah when i'm just sat home like oh shit that's it done maybe you need to like properly say goodbye to charlie yeah some way i will say goodbye to that character i know because he's gone he's gone yeah for now for now i mean you always i guess have that fondness in your heart for heart stopper yeah it being the catalyst for everything it's such a unique special experience to have that do you think because there is something so amazing about having that first opportunity to your foot's in the door like you are you you're in now and and you're just like now like I remember that feeling again of like oh my god right I'm I'm doing I'm tv presenting I'm in now I need to stay in and and and you sort of for a bit forget about the high of that first moment of oh my god I'm I'm through the door like I've I've done it you've never done it obviously but like I'm in I'm in and I don't actually think that you can recreate that high again I think after that it's just you want to stay in it yeah there's something very special about that first thing that first moment well it becomes like from being like the special new thing to like your life yes and like your normal um I think there's always that like I think now I'm in a place where I'm like okay now I need to find the thing that's gonna make sure I stay here because I think because Heartstopper I got so unconventionally there's always been a part of me since then I've done other jobs and I feel like I have certified myself my place in the industry but there's still that thing of like well i didn't train and so i need to like prove that i i'm not just a fluke and we'll stay here and i guess this is part of it is like the like like i always say like like the harry potter the guys who did harry potter there's like they spent the rest of their next 10 years trying to shake harry potter yeah and it's not that i want to shake heart's up at all it's just i don't i definitely don't want to be defined by it no but i think it's like it's like it's like the miley cyrus it's the yeah and i don't think i'm gonna go and get naked on a wrecking ball but you could I could yeah maybe still time it's still time it's such an interesting thing because I don't think that feeling ever really goes for anybody in terms of like whether you call it imposter syndrome or just the feeling that oh everybody else knows what they're doing apart from me I don't think that ever goes and maybe that's not a bad thing I think it's often the people that are so comfy in I've nailed it I deserve to be here are could be complacent or or could take it for granted or I don't know I don't think it's a negative and I've no I agree I've sat and chatted to so many people who have been doing their careers for years and years and years couldn't be more qualified and there's still that little feeling of god or like even if it's not in this industry people like CEOs I've gone do like you know talks in different um banks or big companies and you've got CEOs leading huge teams and there is still that feeling of why like is it okay that I'm the one telling like delegating and telling people what to do or at the top of the tree or I think it's a healthy thing to have if you can keep it in check.

33:38I agree I think use it. Yeah yeah use it to propel you. Yes I mean you as you say you've done lots of other things one of them being broadway which is a huge deal like that is if you want to act on stage it doesn't get any bigger no definitely doesn't get any broadway is the west end is amazing but there's there's an energy that new york and broadway and the culture of that brings that is just unparalleled it's yeah i think also for me doing it that was what i wanted to do a musicals when i was younger like that was my passion and then do a sondheim musical on broadway was was very very cool what was that first show like i would have shit my pants terrifying that was the most scared i was for the first one because i was like well everyone is obviously gonna record on their phones and so as long as i hit the notes in this song in this show because i think at that point i knew i could sing the song but i haven't i didn't know when i ever heard me sing in public.

34:36I was like, and so it was a very, I don't know, I think actually weirdly though, I was the least nervous. Like I think my team were far more nervous because my agent was like, are you sure you can, can you sing Joe? And I was like, yeah, I can sing this song. Yeah, it says on my CV. I can sing. Yeah, this song specifically, I can, I've practiced it, I can get it. It's good. And when the first show was done, or even like I hit, there's a top A flat in one of the songs and I was like. I don't know what that is, but it sounds really high. It's high. Yeah, it's quite high. yeah um but it's like my money note i think everyone's got that one note that's like and i'm like that's the one i can one and so as soon as i got that note out and then the song that i was singing i like hugged into sun foster who was playing this love it and i just was like oh thank god it's done and now i can my first show was a matinee as well which is rude to do a first show on a matinee that is rude yeah you want the nighttime excitement yeah not the afternoon energy no also your voice i wanted to warm the hell up exactly um it's such a scary thing i love going to the theater more than anything and i love watching all manner of shows and i'm always in complete and utter awe at the liveness it doesn't get any more live in terms of every movement every word every stutter every breath is seen and heard by a huge willing audience and on broadway that is magnified by a million because it's they go there for the cream of the crop yeah the best best show you're gonna get on earth how how how are you coping with that pressure of i cannot mess up i think honestly i was just having such the best time when i was doing it and like i had the a moment where i was like i was on the subway on the way to work with my tote bag and my iced coffee and like the subway went past like a poster of my show that i was in and i was like this is this is the coolest thing that's ever happened to me like walking in through stage door into this broadway huge broadway theater my dressing room and i could see like time sky out the window it's just like wow this is this is this is the coolest thing ever that's out of body experience oh yeah but then the whole five months i was doing that was just that every day it was great living in new york amazing i love new york it's the best and what about i always wonder this again with when i go and see shows that there is a monotony to doing a show like that you are doing the same thing yeah every day twice a day certain days how you know how how are you coping with that like you've got the same lines to read you need to bring this a level of excitement but you're doing the same thing every day yeah I mean that it's weird when I did so I did Sweeney Todd on Broadway two years ago and then I did a play in the West End last year and even though Sweeney Todd was a almost three-hour musical I found that way less but not like the play wasn't monotonous but there were a few shows in the play even though it was 90 minutes and it was straight through that like I'd come off stage and I'm like whoa that was like I just did the thing and I like it was almost like not there because I was so tired whereas with Sweeney I there was only a few times that I was like whoa that's just I'm not sure I could do like there are people who do theatre for like the same show for years I definitely couldn't I couldn't do that um not that my agent would let me do that No.

37:48But I think I might as well be like six months I think I could do. But even then, it's still a long time. And it's an amazing discipline. Yeah. When I went to Broadway, that was the first thing I was like, all these people are so talented and so disciplined and so fit. Yeah. And I was like, none of those things. I mean, you can see why a lot of actors do that flip-flop between they'll do a film, they'll do a TV show, then theatre. Yeah. bookmark of theatre back to it again and just touching base with it for that level of discipline for that level of the focus that you have to have just to even remember that many lines in a show every night is an exceptional muscle to keep flexing yeah it's kudos to them

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39:42so do you know what you're doing next where you want to head next um i don't know what i'm doing next i know what i would like to do next which is which i'm not gonna jinx it's a private manifestation yeah there's some conversations and things being had but i i'm right now excited for a summer of trips. Taking my mum on the Orient Express. That's the dream. At the end of August. Oh my god, I've never done that bit. That's so good. I know. She's going to listen to this, but I'm going to say it now. It's for her birthday present and I think she thinks I paid for it, but I haven't. Blagged it. One of the benefits we were saying before about this world is Hashtag spawn.

40:24No, hashtag gifted. Hashtag gifted. They said I didn't have to post on my story about it. Love! But I'm very excited for it. My mum's always wanted to go on the Orient Express. Oh, it's going to be magical. Yeah. And also just You need to have downtime. You've just done this crazy ride of years non-stop. Time for a break. Time for a break. Time for some being young person stuff. My newest resolution this year was to be more messy and be more young. And I think I've done them both all right so far this year. I think that's such a good goal of being more messy because we're taught the opposite. like be as absolutely stringent with everything and make sure everything looks and is perfect and it's so tense to live like that and i think maybe my messy is less messy than other people's messy and that's right that's good but the last few years i think i've been very like got to be on and proper and and you know what actually it's time to get fucked up on the orient express yeah people that's what we're doing i went to ibiza for the first time a few weeks ago crazy so mad yeah my god some stuff happens there yeah I've been quite a few times it's nuts yeah I definitely be going back how important does it feel with whatever you do next maybe not even the next next thing but in the future to have a level of maybe it is activism but I guess it's kind of like care at the end of the day that the shows that you work on theatre or TV have a cultural impact like Heartstopper have because yes, we can all watch it and be entertained and watch like these tender, beautiful love stories, but also watch real life issues being explored.

42:04Like in the movie, I loved the moment where Charlie, I don't want to give away too much. So spoiler if you haven't seen it and you're desperate to see it, but Charlie sets up this club for kids at the school that are part of the LGBTQ plus community to ensure there is a safe space in school. And yes, again, you've got this lovely group of people and you can be entertained watching it. But of course, it's going to impact kids out there who feel like they are other at school or feel like they are not taken care of or there isn't a safe space at school. And it could even impact the schooling system.

42:38We hope to that, you know, teachers end up watching and going, God, we need to implement something like this. Does that feel very important to you? Yeah, I mean, especially with Heartstopper, I think that element of it is a key part of it and is very special. And there's lots of points in the film that I hope people have conversations about and use. And I also think that going forward, it's definitely important to me to do projects that align with who I am and what I believe. um but i think we also can't decide what becomes a cultural thing and so i guess my aim will to be carry on i've never been someone who will shy away from what i believe and say that loud and loudly and i will always continue to be that and so i would assume that if someone is putting me in their work they know what i believe and what i stand for and therefore the production would would do the same would would be would value the same things i value i've got i've got no business and being something that doesn't align with my beliefs yeah of course but then it must feel amazing whether that this has been realized by yourself later down the line that that the show and you being part of it has had such a big impact on young people yeah it is it's very special to be a part of something that people don't just watch but seem to have like genuine impacts from and it seemed to, it's a very nice, it's a nice thing when people come up to you and tell you how much your show means to them.

44:11Do you think Little Joe could have done with Heartstopper when he was a young teen? I think Little Joe would have benefited from Heartstopper but I think Little Joe was too, would have probably made fun of Heartstopper because he wanted to survive in a very certain system but I think he would have watched it in secret but he wouldn't have told anyone he watched it. But there'll be kids out there now that watch it and see it. Yeah, and that's great too. Yeah, it is. And you just hope that that is the catalyst for them to not have to live secretly. And I did one hospital came out. I remember going back to my school and a lot of the younger students, because I was still in school, I think there's a lot more acceptance for self-expression in younger people than even when I was at school, which was only five years ago, than there was when I was 12, 13, which is good.

45:02It's so good to see that progression. but equally heartbreaking for people like yourself that didn't initially have that thought that you could just be yourself yeah i mean i i say that and all at the same time like i had a great experience growing up and i never felt like like i did come out at 12 and then went back into the closet and then i came back out and my all my friends were like yeah you told us like three years ago and i was like i'm out again surprise yeah i told everyone my instagram i've been hacked i put on my instagram story why did i do that don't do that if you just come out when you're 12 just that's my advice just take your time yeah of course you don't need to but you're 12 exactly what do you know at 12 exactly and i know you're trying to figure out how to say something huge about yourself yeah but put it on instagram if you want just you don't need to you can just figure it out yeah yeah and be around the right people that yeah always have your back exactly it's so important yeah oh well i love what the show is doing for it's not just young people i There'll be old people out there watching it thinking, oh my God, I can just be myself.

46:03I can have the permission just to be myself without any worry. It's so important. Joe Locke, we are compiling a Happy Place playlist of songs that make you feel bloody brilliant. What are you putting on it? Ooh, Joy by Ray. Oh, that whole album. That whole album, but specifically this morning I was getting ready and it's just that song. It just, I'm not a dancer, but it just makes me move. It's so good. Yeah. I also love Finn. Yes. The end song where she just speaks over it. She could read me the phone book. Same. In that just gorgeous voice. Oh, she's heaven. And all her orchestrations are all beautiful.

46:42And also, I got to meet her once and she is so lovely. So lovely. Yeah. She's a genius. She's a genius. Okay, that's going on the playlist. Zero arguments about that one. Doom. Thank you. And my final question is, where is your happy place? my happy place is oh my happy place is probably in the isle of man that's where i if i'm if london's getting a bit much and i need to just go i will go to my place which is in the isle of man probably one of my auntie's house having a coffee in the garden with my family and our dogs or the beach or just somewhere like nice and calm and quiet but at the same time my happy place at the moment is also my flat with my best friend that I've just moved into and I lived on my own for a lot of last year and it was great but it's just a little bit lonely when you just you know my life is very busy and I'm very lucky for that so I'm always with people and and which is great but there's a time when I was like oh it's just would be nice to live with someone so I persuaded my best friend from since we were four years old I was like why don't you just move to London move in with me like that's just and he did and it's great it's just great having like being sat on the sofa we've been watching The Crown recently oh love and just like eating a Dishoom take out oh sweet you're talking about a dream night this is heaven it was it's the best that's my happy place at the moment but also home I love going home yeah which I never thought I'd say when I left do you know what I feel embarrassed to admit this I've never been to the Isle of Man it's very pretty I really want to go I love it I love it now I've left yeah I bet but I think it's also really important not only to touch base with like your roots where you're from and go back and you know see those familiar sites but also to have a break from the craziness yeah it's so important so 100 it's it's nice to I just like going home and like nothing has ever changed there's always the same like local drama on Facebook about and it just it makes me laugh and like it really just it's really happy that like someone stole someone's been oh yeah like all the all the same things or like oh the bin men haven't come in two weeks it's just awful yeah and i i guess it's always it's awful but it's also it's nice to have that in the news rather than coming back to london and yeah hearing lots of different news but then at the same time i love london so much especially at the moment as much as it has been too hot recently for too long just going to a pub garden with some friends or like line biking along the canal I love it walking around London in the sunshine is one of my all time joys it's just the best everyone's in a better mood everyone's out on the street having fun I like it at like 9.30 when it's kind of all balmy and dusky I love that feeling it's so great well congratulations on the film congratulations on the end of this chapter what a beautiful chapter to celebrate like this this is the full stop of it this is this is the full stop and i and i love that i think it's so important to have new chapters in life and to look back and reflect and go right and what's the what's the next bit what an interesting and exciting part of your life we find you in yeah i'm excited for you this is the end of a chapter oh gosh i should start thinking about the next one yeah not just yet not just yet go on the orient express first and then worry about it yeah exactly it's an end of year problem that's definitely an end of year problem yeah i'll have a few months of summer yeah oh well i love that for you and thank you so much for being on happy place thank you for having me thank you joe thanks oh joe do you know what i felt sort of ecstatically excited talking to joe at such a important part of his life i remember being in my early 20s and the excitement about what is to come in terms of everything, like who you're becoming as a person, trying to navigate a career, the fun of being young and free and having few responsibilities.

50:47I just felt so excited talking to Joe and seeing him at this amazing point of his career. You can see with Joe, he's just going to ascend further and further and further. He's just such a star and such a lovely person and he's doing a lot of good work. you can watch Heartstopper Forever on Netflix now alright back here very soon but for now a massive thanks again to Jo and to you brilliant lot I love you

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