Michelle Keegan: Imposter Syndrome, boundaries, and puzzles

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and today I'm chatting to Michelle Keegan. I don't like negative emotions. I'm one of them that sort of brushes things under the carpet a lot of the time. I don't like like a negative energy around me, so I sort of like try and turn it into a positive. I don't know how I do it, but I wouldn't stay down for a long period of time. I'm very lucky that as soon as I finish that scene or I finish the day, I don't take it home with me. I know a lot of people can be quite method and feel it for a long time and take it with them and it affects them. But for me, no, as soon as I've wrapped on a day, I might be tired, but I wouldn't take the negative emotions home.

0:38Michelle first appeared on our screens in Coronation Street and has gone on to play brilliant roles in Our Girl, Tina and Bobby and Brassic. Lots more on that one in this chat. Most recently, she's been working on Fool Me Once, a Netflix show based on a thriller novel. It was really cool getting to chat to Michelle because she's generally very private about her private life, quite rightly. and it was really interesting to hear that was a really conscious decision that she made. She's learned to set boundaries, which, as you know, is something I'm always trying to work on myself. Also, imposter syndrome.

1:16That seems to have been a big theme in Michelle's life, which is really interesting because if we're honest, I think that's probably a theme in most of our lives in one way or another. So if that's you, I hope you feel less alone after listening to this chat. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert.

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4:08Hey, Michelle. Hello. Happy New Year. Yeah, Happy New Year. How do you feel about New Year's? I would like to say, you know, it's like a new year, new me, our fresh start, but it never is. Oh, that's a load of old shit, all that new me stuff. And I always say, like, I always try and, you know, do a New Year's resolution, whether it's, you know, be on time or, I don't know, clear about the house or whatever. It just, it never happens. It lasts for about two days and then lasts to square one. It's kind of pointless, but I'm imagining being driven as you are, I'm also extremely driven and really like being driven.

4:44Yeah. January feels like a time to go, right, what are my goals here? Even if it is just in a sort of career capacity, have you got big work goals that you're headed towards? Well, I will be going away again in February. For work? Yeah. Which will take me through to the summer. Wow. So that's me then. And yeah, I have no idea what I'm doing after that, which is pretty exciting. Is it exciting or do you have that sort of... Yeah. Yeah. No, it is exciting. It is. But I also still have the fear. and I said it before that I suffer a lot with imposter syndrome. So I will be doing a job and as soon as I wrap on that job, I'm like, right, well, I'm never going to work again.

5:27You know, that was good when it lasted. That's it, that's me done. So, yeah, I always have that slight panic no matter what I've finished or, you know, if I'm going to go on to something else, I always have that slight panic. I think this industry breeds that sort of insecurity. I think maybe more specifically for women, that often you're sort of pitted against other women. I'm not talking about you necessarily, but all women are sort of pitted against other women. Yeah, I agree, yeah. And that makes you sort of get slightly feared up. Yeah. And obviously the nature of the job is you get some jobs and you don't get some jobs.

6:01How have you taken rejection over the years? I think I take it pretty well. I think, you know, like I said, I came into this industry quite late. I was like 19, 20 when I started. So I started in Corrie at that time. That's when my first job. And I literally went to the audition purely as an experience. I never thought in a million years I was going to get it. It was just, I'll go to that, see how it goes, just get, you know, that under my belt. And then I got the job. So for me, it's one of them where I feel lucky when I get any job. When the job doesn't come in or there's a no, I just think, well, that wasn't for me.

6:40And I move on from that. I don't take it as a personal attack on me. That's so healthy. Thank God. Thank God. I think I've got to that place now where I can probably reason with my own mind and say, okay, this isn't necessarily that you're flawed or there's something wrong with you. But I think in my 20s, oh, my God, I think I took everything so personally. Yeah, I think it's different when you're in your 20s. I think when you come into your 30s, especially late 30s, I think... I'm in a decade after that, babe.

7:11I'm bedded in now the best years of your life but I feel like you know yourself better yeah you know and you can't take things personally and you know something quite it feels big for you isn't necessarily big for everyone else and you have to move on otherwise it's just going to be embedded in your head and it's going to get you down it does and I think it it gets really stuck in your brain it can be one of those things that drags you down when it doesn't necessarily need to but I mean you have had And like last year you worked relentlessly and you did some amazing projects. You finished the year with the Brassic Christmas special.

7:44Yes. Good fun? It was so much fun. And I worked with Imilda Stormton. I'm a massive fan of her. But yeah, and it's always fun doing Brassic. It's like going home for me. So, you know, in between I do these other jobs, which can be quite, you know, tense or, you know, I could be working away abroad. But then when I come home to do Brassic, it's just lighthearted comedy. and I have so much fun and everyone that I'm working with, we have just such a laugh and, yeah, I just feel very lucky to be part of that. I mean, I'm so glad you're saying that because when you watch it, you feel there's that sort of sense of camaraderie between you all together and also it's got that amazing magic of it's laugh-out-loud funny but it's cliffhanger drama.

8:26It's got the both going on. Is that what attracted you to the show in the first place? Why do you love Erin? Well, for me, I've never done comedy before. so Brassic was my first comedy job and I remember that I got sent the script and I remember reading it and I was laughing out loud and that's very rare that that happens you know you can have a bit of a laugh to yourself and you can flip through the scripts but with Brassic I was really really laughing and I was like this is my you know sense of humour and I just yeah I just wanted to be a part of it and for Erin I know so many Erin's you know I could relate to Erin obviously I haven't got a child so I'm not exactly like Erin but I could relate to her.

9:05You know, she's trying to do well. She's from a small town. Everyone knows each other. My dad was like a chairman of a social man's club. I used to work behind the bar. So, yeah, there's lots of similarities between me and Erin and my life and Brassic, you know? Also, the show really cleverly touches on mental health because Vinny's got bipolar and it's not, it's never preachy. It's just part of the storyline worked through the series. and also Joe who plays Vinny has bipolar in real life and I've read several of his interviews where he's talked about it really openly and in just a really grounded way.

9:43Has that led to conversations on set about mental health? Absolutely. I think the beauty of Joe, he's the exec producer as well and the show was based about him and his life and he's so open about his struggles and his mental health And I think that sort of opened the door for other people to talk about that within the show and from outside the show as well. We have lots of people who watch the show who are fans who will come to me, Joe, people that work on the show Brassic and talk about their mental health and say that it's helped them get through hard times. And just to even watch the show for people helps them, you know?

10:25No, it's just really very well done. Yeah. Very, very well done. There's a lot of heart with Brassic as well. Like you said, it's a commode, but it's also heart behind it. So I think that's why it's so well loved. Yeah, it's really gorgeous. I mean, you, from the outside, we've met several times over the years, but you always seem very upbeat and a very sunny personality. That's your sort of baseline. Is that a correct analysis of how you are, would you say? I'm happy all the time. No, don't get me wrong. You know, I have down days or hard days or some days where I'm not feeling my best. But for me, I feel like I've got a good foundation around me.

11:03Like, you know, I've got a good set of mates around me that I've known since school. And if I need like topping up or I'm feeling a bit low, I'll speak to them. And I'm very lucky that, you know, I've got my mum there and I'm very close to my brother as well. So I feel like for me, I haven't married the industry. Do you know what I mean? and I feel like I've got a very solid foundation where I can put my foot in the industry. I can work, I can do different jobs, but as soon as I'm out, I'm at home. It's back to normal Michelle. You know what I mean? So I think I'm quite lucky in that aspect. It's so important.

11:42It's so important, yeah. I love that distinction of just getting into the house and my bra's off immediately. It is off within seconds. and I don't want to perform or think just to be at home. Just to be at home and settle. It's even like today, I've had a busy day. I've had a premiere to go to today. I was dressed up and I had lots and lots of interviews. And as soon as that was over, I was like, right, tracksuit on. Change your bra into my comfy bra. Sexy. But I'm wearing a comfy bra. You know what I mean? I needed to feel myself again. And I'm not performing. I'm not at work right now. I am sort of, but I'm still, I'm me.

12:24And I think maybe a few years ago, I probably wouldn't have done that. I probably would have come in a bit more glammed up and a bit more, you know, performance wise. But no, I feel like over the years I've learned what's important and I'm happy where I am right now. What about if your schedule gets too much? Obviously, you know, you're traveling a lot and filming days can be incredibly long and relentless. How do you make sure that you stay balanced during those times? I think it's just making time for myself. I think that's what it is. I think, you know, if I've got a full-on schedule, I would come in, always have a bath.

13:02That's my thing. That is my heaven. I need a bath when I come in, especially on night shoots. I'm not the type to get in bed on a night shoot, freezing cold. I need to warm my bones up. Do you know what I mean? So I'll have a bath. That's like TLC for me. and then at weekends I sort of try and see the people that make me happy like my friends my family obviously my husband I'll take my dogs out I've got two dogs who I'm obsessed with who've had since I was 21 so they're like my my babies really um and I just spend obviously in the week I can't see them because I'm working so straight away on a Friday night I'll go to my mums who's like their grandma and I'll pick them up bring the dogs home and then I'll just have a weekend at home.

13:44I don't really do anything else. I like staying in. Same. I know. Everyone thinks it's boring, but it's really not. It's the least boring thing. It's the least boring thing. I am a really happy little hermit. Me too. I love, like, I love being at home. I never want to go anywhere because I know that being home is preferable. And I will be out thinking, why am I not at home? I know. And people always think that. You always thought when I was younger, would I get a FOMO? You know when I see people out? I don't care. Nor do I. I don't care. I love it. I can't think of anything worse. If I'm on Instagram and I see that everyone's out at like some bash, I just think, thank God I'm not there.

14:23Me too. Thank God I'm not. Don't want to be. Don't want to be. I don't want to be. I really, really can't be asked. I think over the years, sometimes, you know, this is certainly different in phases of my life, and I'm now like very happily a hermit, but I think over the years you can think in this weird industry we're in and we're in different portions of it, but it's still, you know, moving in the same circle, strange, strange world that it is, that you have to play the game, that you have to go to the premiere, you have to go to the parties, you have to go to the things. Do you feel any of that pressure?

14:52I used to, massively. Now I don't go anywhere, and that is through choice. Like, if I have any time off, that time off for me is quite precious. And I like doing what I like to do, and I like being at home in my natural surroundings. Same. Do you know what I mean? I tell you what I have got into recently, actually, that I've really, what I'm really enjoying is Pilates. Oh, nice. And I know that you do a lot of yoga. I love yoga. I know that's your thing. I love it. I've never got into yoga. I don't know why. I think because I'm quite restless and you've got to hold positions with yoga. That's why I need it.

15:26Do you? That's probably why you need it. Do you think? If you've got a restless mind. I have. It's like a sure sign that you need to practice doing the opposite. so I it's taken me years but I can now get into a much better place where I'm not tempted to like look at my phone or fidget too much and just let all the thoughts come up and all the things and all the stuff. Do you do breathing exercises? Yeah breathing with it. See that's what I want to try and do but I feel like my head is so loud sometimes that's the only way I can describe it that I've got a really loud head that when I am trying to do these breathing exercises or even trying to meditate I can't centre myself again yeah so I need to try and learn how to do that but it's really hard I mean I really I've been I mean I don't meditate that regularly anymore I need to it's one of those things I'm like get back on the wagon why are you not doing this every day because when I do it I feel great do you do you feel it I feel like it's game-changing so like for instance last week I was having the worst insomnia I had this one night where my head was so loud I was I could hear my own voice monologuing at me oh my god my voice I don't want to hear that any more than I already do and then I had that song is it called the carol of the bells that Christmas it's quite horrifying that song in a loop in my head and I was like I I need to I'm gonna jump out my own skin I don't know what to do so the next day I was like right back to basics simple changes.

16:56I made myself meditate that day in the middle of the day. But how long do you meditate for? I only did about 20 minutes. It was a guided one online, really gorgeous so I could focus more on what she was saying. Right, okay. And then I didn't let myself look at my phone past eight o 'clock and I wrote a big list of all the stuff in my head before bed and I slept. Did you sleep? It's game changing. Right, that's what I need to do then. You've got to do it. So when your head's loud, what is going on in there? Is it creative is it ideas is it worries what's your flavor for me it's probably worries yeah it's probably worries because i'm constantly traveling not not just abroad for work but i'm up and down the motorway a lot so i drive a lot or i get a train a lot so i could be down south or i could be up north and i feel like if i've done that the night before and then i get straight to bed my brain is just constant and i'm thinking i don't even what's that saying where you think about what could go wrong.

17:54You don't think about what could go right. You always think about what could go wrong. And I think that's my biggest thing. I'm always worrying about what could go wrong. Is that more in your personal life or is that more work worries? I'd probably say work. Maybe some aspects in my personal, but it's more to do with work. And like I said to you before, I think I suffer with imposter syndrome so much that I overthink things, you know? Why do you think you, I mean, we all have imposter syndrome to a degree. I think everybody, when you sort of meet big CEOs of companies or you see people on TV talking about something, they're an expert.

18:33I think everyone's feeling it to a degree. But when it gets in the way, and I've certainly had periods where it has gotten in the way and I've thought, I don't deserve to be here or I feel completely out of place. It is really harmful. What do you think is driving it? I don't know. I don't know. I think I've come from a very normal working class background. My family or friends aren't in the industry at all. I've never met anyone in the industry until I was on Coray. And even when I was there, I just was like, I'm going to get found out. I shouldn't be here. Someone else should have had this job.

19:09I think I've carried that through no matter what job I've had. Well, I guess going from, you know, you're a teenager living your life and then you're in the TV on the biggest soap on the telly with people that you've grown up watching on the TV. That's hard to process. That's a lot for your brain to get around. Yeah, and I think as well growing up in the industry, people seeing you growing up as well and the fact that now I'm 36, I've changed a lot, my job, the way I look, and everyone's got an opinion now. I always find with this industry, I don't know what it is, I just feel it can be quite negative.

19:46Yeah. You know? Of course. I mean, it's hugely negative. People don't want to read positive stories. They want to read shitty ones. It's constantly clickbaiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's horrible. I mean, have you got any coping mechanisms to deal with that? I just don't read it. Yeah. I think years ago I would, but now I don't. And I remember actually once I... So I think with me, I can deal with when it affects me, but when it affects my family, that's when it's hurtful. and I remember once I stepped out of a restaurant with my mum and we got pictured and I remember my mum reading the article then I don't know why she did because she shouldn't do it, I told her not to but she read the comments and that really affected my mum really bad and now she won't walk out of restaurants with me because of that reason.

20:35It's horrible reading shit online and people write stupid comments they would never say to anyone's face and actually we don't even know what's going on in their life why they feel compelled to write something negative to a stranger. But it is horrible. And it does feel like a personal attack when people... Everyone in the public eye has been through it. But I think when it's family, it just feels like they didn't ask for that. It's unwarranted. Yeah, exactly. That's horrible for your mum. I know, I know. It's just the shit side of the industry, isn't it? It's just... And that's what I mean. I feel like as I've grown up in the industry, I have become a lot stronger now.

21:12And that's why I've sort of made a conscience decision as I have grown up and I have gotten older that I've kept a lot of my private life private and that's been a conscious decision for me. And because of doing that, I do feel a lot happier. Yeah, good for you. It's just setting boundaries, isn't it? Exactly, it's setting the boundaries, yeah. Because I was reading, obviously, a ton of articles that you'd done in preparation to talk to you today and one thing that you said is that you're a people pleaser. Oh my God, yeah. And, yeah, resonates. I think many people out there will go, yeah, hands up, absolutely like to make people around me You feel good and feel comfortable and whatever it is in personal life, in your working life.

21:51So that can make it difficult to then set boundaries. If you're making decisions that you don't want to talk about certain things at work or even boundaries with your family, that can be really uncomfortable to do that if you're a people pleaser. Yes, and I feel very uncomfortable. You know, having those conversations for me is very alien. like I could never like pull someone up or like I don't know say that I'm uncomfortable I always sort of like went along with things so it didn't make them feel uncomfortable it wasn't about me but I feel like again as I've gotten older I have become more stronger in that field where I can step back and be like actually no I don't feel comfortable or if I'm doing an interview and ask me personal questions I could be like I don't want to talk about that where years ago I just blurt things out and then read it and think why did I say that yeah you know we've all been there yeah it's horrible with the boundaries thing I think it is perhaps it is something just with age you get better at being able to flex those muscles and say actually I don't want to do that because I think otherwise I mean I certainly found not setting a boundary or not telling someone what I was capable of doing or what I didn't want to do would just lead to resentment I'd end up I was feeling so full of resentment that I'd gone along with someone else's desires and left myself at the bottom of the pile.

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25:22So you kicked off the year on the 1st of January with a brand new series that has been much anticipated, Fool Me Once. Yes. I watched episode one, it freaked me out. Did it? In the best possible way. How was that to film? Again, in sort of stark contrast to Brassic, where you've got the humour and the levity. This is like a psychological thriller. Absolutely. And I literally wrapped on Brassic, went straight into Fool Me Once, and then wrapped on filming once and went straight back to Brassic. So it's like total opposites, you know. But for me, I loved it. It was like, it's just so fast-paced.

25:56It's so, it's one of them where you can't help but want to get to the answer. So it's like when you're watching the series, you can't end it on episode one. You have to watch the next and the next and the next. And I remember reading the book before I actually said 100 % I'll do it. I remember reading the book. I'm a massive fan of Harlan Coburn's. I've watched A Close, The Stranger. And I remember reading the book. I was on holiday at the time. And I was around the pool. And when you get to the end, which obviously is going to be seen in episode eight, no spoilers, I let out a massive gasp around the pool because it's pretty big, pretty juicy, pretty good.

26:34Oh, my God. See, I haven't read the book, so I'm just going to have to binge it and get to the last episode. I told my friends that don't read the book. So you know what's going on. You're going to guess. It's a guessing game. Well, I already, from watching the first episode, was going, in my head, I'm going, I know what's going on here. I don't. Yeah, you don't. That's the thing. And that's what everyone says. Like, you think you know, but then the rug gets pulled under your feet. You don't know. You haven't got a clue. You don't know. And your mother-in-law is Joanna Lumley. I know. Have you met her?

27:01Yes, she came on here. Stop. Yeah, she came on the podcast. The voice of angels. And we talked about classical music and all sorts. Oh, stop. She's so incredible. Oh, my God. She's such a legend. It was literally working with TV royalty. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. Do you know what I mean? And she's so, she's so lovely. And it's like, I sort of gravitated towards her. One, she made me feel really uncomfortable. Uncomfortable. Joanna? Joanna, no, she didn't. She made me feel really, really comfortable. But two, she's just hilarious. Yeah. She's just so quick. She's so funny. And yeah, I just loved being around her.

27:39Did she impart any wisdom? because obviously she has been in the industry for a very long time and she's experienced all the highs and lows and obviously been in comedy and drama and film. Does she impart any advice? Any advice? I remember her just saying, one, don't overthink it, and there was a scene where it was a 14-page scene. I think that's going to be in episode eight, actually. It's a 14-page scene and we had one day to film it, which is very rare for drama. It's so fast-paced. You've got lots of scenes to film in one day. So we were given the whole day to film this one scene and we had rehearsal time and things like that because it was like a penultimate scene.

28:19And I remember just wanting to go again and again and again. And then there was a shot where we had to move the cameras and it was just like quite close. And I remember saying to the director, right, you don't need the top of this and you don't need the end of it because it's all in one shot, which is like a close in. like I would never have the power to turn around and go can we not just do the you know the middle bit we don't need the top and the bottom because she she's been in the industry so long she knows what she the camera's going to need you know what I mean she knows in the edit room what's going to be used I was just how she works and I was just watching the whole time like she just knew she knew the cameras she knew what shots they were going to use she knew the dialogue inside out you know she didn't look at a script once she just came in that morning just knew word for word How much pressure do you feel under in a situation like that, working with someone like Joanna?

29:09Yeah, but I feel like I work better under pressure. I don't know why. It gave me that bit of a kick. Do you know what I mean? I actually like working under pressure. So for me, I knew if I had Joanna in that day, I was like, it's going to be a good day. So your character, Maya, in For Me Once, she is dealing with a lot of big emotions. She's got grief, injustice, rage. There's all sorts of stuff that you're having to channel. Is it easier to channel negative emotions versus positive ones? That's an interesting question. Hi, this is Knox from the podcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the podcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors.

29:55And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tight and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving.

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31:24no no i don't i don't yeah i don't like negative emotions i don't handle them very well i sort of i'm one of them that sort of brushes things under the carpet a lot of the time i don't like like a negative energy around me so i sort of like try and turn it into a positive i don't know how I do it but I wouldn't stay down for a long period of time. So say you're having to work with very negative emotions if it's anger or sadness or injustice is that easy for you to do can you snap your fingers and you're sad or you're angry and you don't mind feeling those feelings? Absolutely and I feel with me I'm very lucky that as soon as I finish that scene or I finish the day I don't take it home with me.

32:08Really? Yeah yeah. Do you feel drained? I feel drained and I can be tired but I don't hold on to any negative emotions maybe that's become a good life skill that you practiced at work and now you can do in your real life yeah I'm very disconnected when it comes to that I know a lot of people can be quite method and feel it for a long time and take it with them and it affects them um but for me no as soon as I've wrapped on a day I might be tired but I wouldn't take the negative emotions home no that's so good I think we could all learn from that and do that in our real lives just like i'm not taking that shit home with me no leave it here leave it at work yeah i love that and what about learning a 14 page scene how are you like the focus that is needed you're training your brain to do something that is it's extremely intricate there's no room for you know when i'm doing one of these podcasts i can sort of waffle on in a roundabout way and find out where i'm going but with this you it's every word is dissected and And it's not only the words you're saying, it's how you're saying it.

33:09It's your facial expressions. It's where you're standing, the marks you've got to hit. How are you with all that? Yeah, you know, that's the thing. I think when you've finished for the day, our day isn't necessarily done. I need to go home and, you know, I'll have a bath, which I need. And then I'll get in bed and I'll do lines for a few hours. So, yeah, they are long days. But I think we always say, like, the longer you're doing a show. So say at the beginning, I might trip up a few times, but by the end of it, your brain's almost like a sponge where it absorbs so much information and it gets rid of so much information.

33:43So I could film on Thursday and then start work on the Friday and have no idea what I filmed on the Thursday. I couldn't remember my lines from the day before because my brain's full of the lines on the Friday because everyone says about the lines, but I feel like the more you do it, the easier it becomes. But it does, I mean, the whole thing requires a lot of discipline in terms of there's no way you can just wing it and turn up on the day. I think this is the stuff that, as viewers, we don't see that amount of time and work that goes into ensuring that you turn up and you can perform under pressure with the whole crew staring at you and other actors that you're working with.

34:18Do you say you're naturally disciplined? I'm naturally disciplined, but I think that's come from being in a soap. I've said it before, I think it's a lot of snobbery surrounding soap. For me, it's the best learning platform you could ever do as an actor. like I remember we were filming like three different storylines at one time with three different directors not in chronological order like going back and forward and being in a soap is so fast-paced you have to be on your game you have to be and I was working with the likes of you know Barbara Knox and Bill Roach who plays Ken like you have to know your stuff you have to be on it and I feel with that discipline from soap that I learned at such a young age I sort of carried that through my career so now when I go on set I know exactly what I'm saying I actually probably don't need the sides of my hand because I know my lines you have to do you remember that first day of walking onto the coronation street set and working with these legends and having to deliver oh my god I remember it like it was yesterday I remember walking on those cobbles and my first day actually was just ringing a doorbell thank god for you thank god no lines just ringing a doorbell and I remember just stepping on and pinching myself I can't believe I'm actually in Coronation Street and I obviously my family are from Manchester North West so Coronation Street for us was a big big deal, I grew up watching the show and it's just like I stepped into my telly I can't believe it it was very surreal It's amazing, but like you say it's a perfect learning ground for the script and the lines and the discipline that comes along with it.

35:57You left after six years, obviously wanting new challenges. Did you feel a pressure? Like you said, there's this sort of weird snobbery around soaps. We all love them, but there is this sort of snobbery. Did you feel a pressure to move on quite quickly or the pressure to find something that took you to in a new direction? I wanted the next job to be right. I felt that pressure. But I didn't work for about eight months, nine months. And I remember speaking to my agent and there was like scripts coming in, but they just didn't feel the next step for me. But I remember when I left, I really panicked about it because I thought, right, what if it don't work again?

36:33And I remember Julie Hez, who played Hayley, she was leading around the same time as me, and I was like, oh, my God, Coronation Street, that's over now. You know, my character's dead, they're killing Tina, what am I going to do? I remember her pulling me to the side and she was like, the fact that they've killed you is the best thing they could ever have done because it's taken that security blanket away from you. You know, you have to really push now and work hard. And I'll always remember that because it really did. But I also remember thinking, if I don't work again, at least I've had a good run.

37:09You know, six and a half years on Corridor, that ain't too bad. Would you have felt content then if you hadn't been able to continue the career? I think, yeah, I think I would have. Wow. I think I would have. I'm not just saying that. I think, you know, for me, being in Coronation Street, when I thought I was coming in for six months, because that's my initial contract. It was only a six-month contract, and then I left after six and a half years. It was pretty good going. Obviously, I'd love to continue doing what I was doing, but I thought that's pretty amazing. But like you said earlier, you know, having that gratitude when any job comes in still is a really good way of ensuring that you're happy with what you're doing.

37:43I think when you start to become complacent or expectant in terms of the jobs turning up, that's where things start to go wrong. So it's that gratitude that keeps you there. Absolutely. I never take anything for granted. Any job that I'm doing, I never take it for granted, ever, ever. I feel very lucky to be doing it. It's really important. What have your family felt about your rise and your success over the years? Were they supportive when you initially said that was the direction you wanted to go in? I remember my dad taking me for a drive because I think my brother was very academic. I wasn't.

38:18so I remember going when I left college I didn't know what I wanted to do and I was thinking do I go uni but then I thought what do I do at uni I don't really love anything the only thing that I do love is drama so I remember thinking to me I'll take a year out and I'll go to like there's a drama school called Manchester School of Acting near me so I thought I'll take a year out I'll go there and see what happens and my dad took me for a drive and he was telling me that I should be going into the Navy or something. And I was like, but I think I ought to be an actor dad. I remember him saying the line, Michelle, you need to get your head out of the clouds and you need to think of your future.

38:57And literally, two months later, I can't correct. I love it. So what does he think about your career now? Oh, he's really proud. My dad's in Tenerife at the minute. He's got a bar out there. He's retired and moved to Tenerife. And, you know, he champions me. I know he's really proud. He shows people pictures of me and there's pictures in his bar and the wall and things like that. That's so lovely. Is there any bit of you that still needs to prove to him that the job is valid? Always. I don't know what it is with my dad, but he's the first person I will call if I get a job. No matter what it is, I could find out I've got the job.

39:33Literally a minute later, I'll be telling my dad. Always. So interesting, isn't it? Always. We always have that pull back to something in childhood or something from our parents, whether it's proving what we're doing or whatever. It's hard to shake that off, I think. It's hard to shake it. And my dad's not very emotional either. So, like, you know, he could watch a show and then I'd be like, what do you think of that? Do you enjoy it? He'd go, yeah, it's all right. But then I'll hear him talking to his friends and, oh, different story, different story. Yeah, but it's like I still need, I'm like a little girl, I still need that validation from him.

40:06Oh, I think we all do, don't we? That's never going to go, yeah. We all need that, especially in a weird job where there's no, you know, plotted out future plan and you are just sort of waiting for jobs and seeing what's coming up next. I think you just want to feel a level of safety in something. Yeah. Like you were saying, a foundation that keeps you, your baseline happy is your school friends, you're in a really healthy marriage. You've been married now for... Nearly nine years. Nine years, oh my God. I know, it's gone so fast. That's crazy. We were saying that the other day, it's going so fast, yeah.

40:39What do you think makes you compatible with Mark? I think just being best friends. I think just being friends and having that relationship. And I think we're really lucky where if I go up north, he comes with me if he can. And same with down south. So we're based down south, but if we travel, we go with each other. And I think that really works for us. Yeah. I mean, you've had periods where you have been in totally different continents. How have you made it work long distance? There are plenty of people who have got partners who have to work abroad constantly or in the armed forces. And it's a real struggle.

41:12What keeps you on the right track? That's the thing. We're not the first to do it, you know, and it is a job thing. And like when I was in Australia, was it a year and a half ago? I don't remember. Yeah, when I was in Australia in Sydney, I had like two months alone. But then he'd come out and stay with me for six weeks. And it's just having and finding that time for each other. I think that's the main key. but also letting us have our freedom to do what we want to do career-wise. And it's worked for us. Well, you're both happy doing what you want to do. It's super important. Also, I read recently that you love time on your own.

41:48I am a big advocate of. Lone Wolf. I need to be on my own to stay sane. I get so out-peopled. If I see too many people in a day or it's just busy in the house or whatever, I can feel myself reaching fever pitch. like just I'm going to explode. What do you need that time for? What do you do in that time? And how are you using that time to feel balanced? I use that time just to recharge. So say on a Saturday morning, I've been working all week, I'm really tired, but I will set my alarm early to get up and walk to Pilates. That's my new thing now. I've got Pilates in the morning. After that, grab myself a coffee, sit there for 20 minutes, whatever.

42:32got on my phone reading things and then I'll come home and then I'll start the day I just need that time for me on my own to recharge I mean that's trickier when you're in a bustling cast and on set yeah working on a project you still have to try and carve out those moments for yourself yeah and I think you know I've worked you know the shows that I have done like I said we're all really close and we're all really good friends and if someone takes themselves off to go and sit on their own and have a coffee we sort of like respect that they can do that on their own time and then come back to us when the red day and I sort of take myself off quite a lot just to be on my own yeah heaven and you like puzzles oh I do I do and people got into them through lockdown but I didn't I'm a fan you're a long termer I'm a long termer I got it from my mum what is it about puzzles that's my downtime I love puzzles I think it's again you're not on your phone you're not on your phone and like having music on in the background or a series that I'm watching where I can hear it but I don't have to look up you know like an easy like for example friends yeah just friends in the background so I know I can see it because I've watched it so many times I could just hear it but I'm looking down doing a puzzle that's my switch off time what's the biggest puzzle you've done I always do a thousand pieces wow always yeah yeah I did one the other day actually they're quite big pieces I think it must have been 500 but I did it in a few hours wow I know because I'm imagining that this thing is just sort of left on the dining room table and you're coming back to it here and there, but you're doing it in one.

44:04I've got a mat that goes under the sofa. Oh, you're serious, puzzler. Oh, I'm serious. You've got puzzled mats. I'm serious. I didn't know they existed. Yeah, that goes under the sofa. But I did do one the other day, the 500 on the table. That's why I finished it in the day, because I thought, I'm going to have to clean it up. Might as well finish it off. I mean, that is mindfulness right there. Absolutely. That's what you're doing. Yeah, it is. It is. That's my switch off time. I love it. I'm processing. Yeah. Yeah, it's so, so important. Wow, puzzling. Maybe I need to start puzzling. Have you never done it?

44:33Like, I've done a kid's puzzle of, like, space. No. We did a kid's puzzle of space, which had, like, 20 pieces. No, you need to do that, 1 ,000 pieces. Like a really calming scene. You know what I mean? Like a scenic puzzle. I'm interested in your restlessness, how this is working out. If you're feeling like you've got a lot going on in your head, how have you got the patience? It just chills me out straight away. As long as I have a bit of something in the background a bit of music or like I said TV and I'm not going to like probably a glass of wine. Heaven. Heaven. Yeah. But this is the thing I think there's a lot of pressure that we should be doing mindfulness in a certain way so there's the right way to do it which is you must meditate for an hour or you must do whatever.

45:16Mindfulness is whatever you want it to be. It's what helps you and I think it's really personal and for me it is like I said puzzles alone time going Pilates is going for that coffee on my own, you know, recharging. Can you see yourself in this industry in 30, 40 years? Would you want that? Knowing how full on it is, knowing the pressure, the demands, the weirdness, social media and the press invasion, etc. Would you want to be doing it in the future? Well, now that I've sort of worked with Joanna Lumley, I'd probably say yeah, because look how fabulous she is. Do you know what I mean? And she's so positive and I love her energy.

45:55and she's been in the industry for years and she just seems really grounded and really happy. So, yeah, I'd probably say she's, like, someone that I look up to. If she can do it, I can do it. Too right. Too right. Well, look, Michelle, it's been so nice talking to you today and congrats on a brilliant last year and I wish you all the luck with this year. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. Oh, Michelle, thank you so much. I loved getting to sit down and have a proper chatter with you. What a treat. And maybe I should get into puzzling, guys. This has not crossed my mind before.

46:30I'm seeing a new hobby on the horizon. You can watch Michelle in Fool Me Once on Netflix now. And Fool Me Once is, of course, based on the novel of the same name. For more book chat, you can always come over to Happy Place Book Club on Instagram. It's at Happy Place Book Club, and I'd absolutely love to see you there. Also, we chatted about the fantastic, fabulous Joanna Lumley. If you haven't already, you must go back and listen to her episode of Happy Place, because not only is she a legend, but just listening to her voice is soothing to the soul. Back with another epic guest next week. But until then, the biggest thank you again to Michelle, to the producer Anushka Tate at Rethink Audio, and to you.

47:15You are the greatest.

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